Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 May 2014 20:06

Karan M wrote:
chaanakya wrote:And how that makes it relevant for this election . It was't even an issue in this election. And how discussing 2002 makes General Election 2014 world's largest election. There is some hidden link which obviously others see and I am not able to connect.
Perhaps you are not tracking the foreign media, but many link Modi to 2002. It is an issue. And the more international folks see through the left-EJ-islamist cabals attacks on BJP/Modi, the better.

And from where he got his figures , just to cite one.

"Remarkably, at least 20 million Muslims entering India from Pakistan and Bangladesh have managed to vote illegally in Indian elections; some even running for office with the assistance of Muslim-appeasing politicians." Perhaps , that is the only thing which makes it largest democratic election in the world that he could come up with. Casting aspersions and implicitly questioning legitimacy by implication.
The numbers are beside te point which the author is making.

Then he should say so rather than giving misleading headlines and quoting wrong figures to make some point which was not an issue

And how can you come up with right point with wrong numbers and facts? Basically he is feeding into steoreotyping . NaMO has never seen this as Hindu Muslim issue. His whole analysis is based on this old premise and he thinks somehow NaMo would address this as popularly believed.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 May 2014 20:17

There are only a set of young leaders who supported Modi & his stance on various issues unapologetically on mainstream media. They should be part of Modi cabinet.

My List (to give the thought process): Be easy on the eye. The cabinet should represent young, confident, assertive, non-apologetic, self-aware, suave Bharat!
- Amit Shah (Defense, Additional responsibility - Chairman of Minorities commission)
- Piyush Goel (Finance)
- Meenakshi Lekhi
- Smriti Irani
- Shanawaj Hussain
- Asifa Khan
- Shaina NC
- Nirmala Sitaraman
- VK Singh (not Defense, may be Home)
- Nalin Kohli
- Rajiv Pratap Rudy
- Ravishankar Prasad

Future CM Candidates
- Sushil Kumar Modi
- Yeddi baba
- Nitin Gadkari

Long-term National Agenda
- Constitutional Reforms >> Arun Shouri, Rajiv Malhotra, Baba Ramdev etc.,
- Rewriting IPC/UCC >> SSwamy, MJAkbar etc

National Mentors
- LKA, SS, YS, MMSJ etc.,

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 May 2014 20:20

RamaY wrote:National Mentors
- LKA, SS, YS, MMS etc.,

RamaY ji,

you wish to be mentored by MMS?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 May 2014 20:22

ooopsi.. I meant MMJ not MMS.

In a way I want MMS to mentor the oldies and likes of Menaka Gandhi on how to shutup and not talk at all.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 May 2014 20:23

undie tv: 81% say bjp will get 272

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 May 2014 20:25

gadha gadhaya dharmasya
yama yamaya karmasya
maun mohanaya guru tatva
..

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 May 2014 20:25

Everybody in BJP is either WACO or Psycho or incompetent or some sort of jehaardi except NaMo and AS. I hope they devide all portfolio between them and spare us further pain.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 May 2014 20:26

I request/hope Modi creates a cabinet ministry for Innovation separate from Education.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:28

RajeshA wrote:I wonder if Maneka Gandhi is bringing up disagreements over River Linking as a reason to dump BJP and make herself and her son Varun more attractive for Congress.

After Congress gets only around 70, some knives would be out and who knows the mafia may think they need to go for Sanjay Gandhi side of the family.

I dont think so. She is pretty straightforward about her knowledge and ideology. How can objection to potential ecological disaster be a conspiracy.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 May 2014 20:29

The Press Council of India has to be strengthened to self police the journalists or else GOI has to step in and enforce strictures against lies and paid media articles.
Sheila Bhatt should be censured for false story about RSS exit polls. That is rumor mongering.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:30

rgsrini wrote:^^Rajesh A,
Maneka Gandhi can be given some portfolio for Animal Welfare and Wildlife Protection
Saar, Why do you want to punish the common people of India. The streets of Chennai are being ruled by crazy street dogs, it has made everyone's life into hell. The corporation is refusing to kill the dogs, or take it away, or even control their population. Forget about walking on the streets, you cannot even get a good night sleep. I am not talking about some remote place. I am talking about well developed "hear of the city" like Nungambakkam. I believe it is a direct result of the policies of Shri Maneka, during her last stint. I don't want her to do any more damage.

Secondly, I would like to have a government where there is no influence (Direct or indirect) from the so called "Gandhi" family. This is just my personal wish.

The streets of India are also plagued by pollution - the rivers are plagued by poison. Why is that not an objection? That and the cancer trains are a bigger problem than wailing dogs. Get a perspective.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:32

LokeshC wrote:
rgsrini wrote:^^Rajesh A,

Saar, Why do you want to punish the common people of India. The streets of Chennai are being ruled by crazy street dogs, it has made everyone's life into hell. The corporation is refusing to kill the dogs, or take it away, or even control their population. Forget about walking on the streets, you cannot even get a good night sleep. I am not talking about some remote place. I am talking about well developed "hear of the city" like Nungambakkam. I believe it is a direct result of the policies of Shri Maneka, during her last stint. I don't want her to do any more damage.

Secondly, I would like to have a government where there is no influence (Direct or indirect) from the so called "Gandhi" family. This is just my personal wish.
OT:

Dog problem in India will go away when trash is cleaned out regularly. Don't attack the dogs, they are magnificent animals! Just dont provide them with any food supply and they will die out naturally. The way to do it is to clean up biological waste/plant waste completely from our streets.

It sucks to see people attacking dogs instead of the root cause of the issue, easily available waste food that dogs can feed and grow on. In that respect they do a great favor to the society by cleaning up biological trash from our streets.

It is like the plague of Europe which happened because myopic people in London killed the cats.
Better to neuter the dogs. They will go away on their own without suffering. People need to learn about biodiversity

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 May 2014 20:33

to give NDTV its due their panelists take turns to speak, and not the shoutfest that Arnab's durbar comes to.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 May 2014 20:34

Jarita wrote:
RajeshA wrote:I wonder if Maneka Gandhi is bringing up disagreements over River Linking as a reason to dump BJP and make herself and her son Varun more attractive for Congress.

After Congress gets only around 70, some knives would be out and who knows the mafia may think they need to go for Sanjay Gandhi side of the family.

I dont think so. She is pretty straightforward about her knowledge and ideology. How can objection to potential ecological disaster be a conspiracy.

Just funny that she did not bring up the subject during elections. Also funny that the Mom-Son duo did not use "Modi" for their election campaign, but only "Gandhi" surname!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 May 2014 20:35

NDTV Maharashtra

CONG+NCP - 13
MNS - 1
NDA - 48% voteshare, 34 seats, 55% of young voters 18-22yo

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:35

Supratik wrote:
Shamlee wrote: There is no way cruelty to animals can be justified. An animal who has to undergo research suffers a lot more than an animal slaughtered in a slaughter house.

Yes, until someone in your family dies of cancer. He/she could have been saved if the potential drug was tested on an animal. Drugs have to pass through certain procedures before they are given to humans. One of them is animal testing. It is unavoidable at this stage.

For goodness sake. Many traditional medicines have grown without cruelty to animals. New techniques (petri dish) enable minimizing this. There is always a middle path.

Someone is more likely to die of Cancer because of the pollution and poison in our waters. Have you heard about the cancer trains of Punjab - thanks to GMO farming. Middle path - prevent and then cure.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:36

Supratik wrote:
Shamlee wrote: I don't care. The life of one being should not be at the cost of another especially as the animal is defenseless and is unable to give informed consent. Why don't we use all these prisoners and other anti-social elements to experiment on? They have taken something from the society so they should give it back. Payback time.

Similarly we scientists don't care. Our job is to find ways to save human lives first. If a cancer kills 2 million world-wide and I have to test a new drug on mice or dog or rabbit or monkey I will do it according to the well-established procedures. Human testing happens only when the drug is found safe on animals.

You should care about what is causing cancer as a scientist.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:37

disha wrote:Regarding Maneka Gandhi.,

What has she done? Outside her ministerial space and being called "kutto-billi waali maaadam" what has she done to deserve ministry of environment?

1. Did she enunciate a policy on bio-fuels?
2. Did she come out with an alternate plan to stop the water table going down?
3. Did she come out with any idea on stopping the sandal wood smuggling and tearing down of forests and actually creating trade in say sandalwood? Any viable plan?
4. Any plan to save the rhinos? Creating and linking up the tiger corridors?
5. Any plan for solving the "pink revolution"?
6. Any plan on cleaning up the air pollution, noise pollution?

I can start threads on each of the above, what has she done that she "deserves" a ministry?

Vajpayee needed somebody with the "Gandhi" to protect his flanks. Maneka has outlived her purpose (using the name Gandhi)., now it is time to give the ministry to a deserving candidate who can actually do something about the environment and forests.

All wonderful points. Was she enabled? Who is the alternative? We cannot have a rapacious Oily Moily ministry in place

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 May 2014 20:37

NDTV Chattisgarh

NDA - 9
Congis - 2

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 May 2014 20:37

Modi is not even sworn in as PM already folks are expressing discontent.

Whatever happened to honeymoon period for new govt? When MMS was made PM there was so many years of 'respect' and paid media about the dignified PM and the great work he was ushering in a new culture.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 May 2014 20:37

chaanakya wrote:Then he should say so rather than giving misleading headlines and quoting wrong figures to make some point which was not an issue

And how can you come up with right point with wrong numbers and facts? Basically he is feeding into steoreotyping . NaMO has never seen this as Hindu Muslim issue. His whole analysis is based on this old premise and he thinks somehow NaMo would address this as popularly believed.

You are the only one reading more into the article than the points the author is making. Since you are unable to understand what the author is saying you are blaming him with all sorts of non sequiturs!

For once, an Indian author comes out and states the facts and you have issues with that as well. With attitudes like these no wonder the nationalist side can never unite to portray a coherent POV.

And what old premise?

The H M issue exists and is not going away as long as rabid mullahs keep inciting and get incited to commit acts of terror. As if Muzaffarnagar or Assam or even Mumbai riots were a century ago.
The author clearly points out the entire context of how the 2002 riots occurred, and how it would be a mistake to demonize one side and even NaMo for it. But you can't understand that either.

Further, the author merely makes the point that if a NaMO admin is fair, it would be a huge step up as versus the completely discriminatory policies that currently exist.

That is the expectation of many on this board.

And as regards the sanctity of Indian elections based on numbers, what sanctity? Lakhs of names missing from the voter list & you are not concerned about that. Instead you are nitpicking about the exact number of illegals who voted in this election! Heck, even most of us on this board are still chary of the exit polls given how badly the EC has managed things so far.

Net, you have missed the complete point of the article & the purpose it serves. Which is to explain to a wide array of people completely unaware of the context of the accusations about 2002 & NaMo about the wider issues that plague India & how badly the left-Islamist-EJ cabal have attempted to subvert the facts in order to wage a propaganda war. It is this aspect the author is addressing. An average American or westerner who is fed on the lies of bad bad evil baby murdering NaMo may read this article and understand there are other sides to the story than what the BBC or the Guardian or NYT are feeding them.

Read it again if you wish & if you don't get it even then, that's that. No point in me belaboring the obvious either.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 14 May 2014 20:41

Jarita wrote:All wonderful points. Was she enabled? Who is the alternative? We cannot have a rapacious Oily Moily ministry in place

Why are you so interested in Maneka Gandhi getting Environment Ministry in this Govt. Recall that in UPA2 a large portion of the blame for investments not being made in India, which now has resulted in 4% growth, was due to Jairam Ramesh acting apeshit and not giving clearances. IMHO that is now a critical ministry and DIEs and fools can't be suffered there. We need a does there. Suresh Prabhu from SS is my man for this ministry.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:42

ramana wrote:Modi is not even sworn in as PM already folks are expressing discontent.

Whatever happened to honeymoon period for new govt? When MMS was made PM there was so many years of 'respect' and paid media about the dignified PM and the great work he was ushering in a new culture.

It is crucial that this new government represents India's interests as a civilization and a nation and not as a corporation whose land is for exploitation.
We have too many people on this forum and in the proposed established whose view of progress is constructed by a western frame of development vs. indic even though they profess to be indic.
This establishment has a massive repair job to do in addition to long term sustainability. They cannot have a myopic 5 year view. Unfortunately, things are not in great shape to allow the luxury of a 5 year view.
As such, all POV has to be considered.
This cannot be a government for big business like Congress was government for biggest bidder

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 May 2014 20:42

मोदी को वीजा देने पर अमेरिका की चुप्पी कायम

America silent on Visa Issue for NaMO

वाशिंगटन। भाजपा नेता नरेंद्र मोदी को वीजा देने पर लगातार चुप्पी बरकरार रखते हुए अमेरिका ने कहा है कि राष्ट्र और सरकार के प्रमुख ए1 वीजा के पात्र हैं। कोई भी व्यक्ति अमेरिकी वीजा के लिए अपने आप पात्र नहीं होता। ए1 वीजा सरकारी अधिकारियों या कर्मचारियों को आधिकारिक यात्रा पर आने पर दिया जाता है।

विदेश मंत्रालय की प्रवक्ता जेन सैकी ने मंगलवार को कहा कि आव्रजन और राष्ट्रीयता कानून [आइएनए] के तहत राष्ट्र और सरकार के प्रमुख ए1 वीजा के पात्र हैं। अमेरिकी कानून राष्ट्र और सरकार के प्रमुख समेत विदेशी सरकारी अधिकारियों को कुछ आधार पर छूट देते हैं। मोदी के प्रधानमंत्री बनने पर क्या अमेरिका उन्हें वीजा जारी करेगा इस सवाल के जवाब में उन्होंने कहा कि हम वीजा मुद्दे पर बात नहीं करते हैं। हम भारत की नई सरकार के साथ काम करने को उत्सुक हैं। मैं कोई कयास नहीं लगाने जा रही। अभी तक परिणामों की घोषणा नहीं हुई है।' भारत में चुनावी नतीजों की घोषणा 16 मई को होगी।

On a question whether America would issue Visa to NaMo on his becoming PM, American Spokesperson for Dept of State Jen Psaki said that she would not be talking on Visa issue. We would be interested to work with the New Govt of India.

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 14 May 2014 20:42

That is the first article that I have seen from the Western Press that states the things as it is on ground...it needs to read by potential BRFites or fence sitters. Showing Mr. Modi in a positive light.
Please don't mention Francois Gauthier - he is as Indian and Dharmic as they come.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 May 2014 20:43

doh! how many times Modi has said he does not care about american vija!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 May 2014 20:44

ramana wrote:Modi is not even sworn in as PM already folks are expressing discontent.

Whatever happened to honeymoon period for new govt? When MMS was made PM there was so many years of 'respect' and paid media about the dignified PM and the great work he was ushering in a new culture.

Honeymoon becomes rape when Hindutvavadis are involved.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:45

ShankarCag wrote:
Jarita wrote:All wonderful points. Was she enabled? Who is the alternative? We cannot have a rapacious Oily Moily ministry in place
Why are you so interested in Maneka Gandhi getting Environment Ministry in this Govt. Recall that in UPA2 a large portion of the blame for investments not being made in India, which now has resulted in 4% growth, was due to Jairam Ramesh acting apeshit and not giving clearances. IMHO that is now a critical ministry and DIEs and fools can't be suffered there. We need a does there. Suresh Prabhu from SS is my man for this ministry.

Why is development not possible without damaging the environment further? Very easy for big business to raze whatever is left. Big dams, big businesses, big farms are not necessarily the way out for our country's long term sustainability, sovereignty and upliftment from poverty.
So I guess that makes me a DIE and a FOOL and many others on this board who are opposed to that way of thinking. Please expand your mind to accommodate alternatives. It is not just big business, environmental destruction or poverty.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 14 May 2014 20:45

Jarita wrote:This cannot be a government for big business like Congress was government for biggest bidder

That is the AAP POV also. IMHO big business is good for everyone. Only requirement is that it should be ethical.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 May 2014 20:45

OK. Enough Maneka Gandhi and her ideology. Get back to topic.

Thanks,

ramana

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 14 May 2014 20:46

ramana wrote:Modi is not even sworn in as PM already folks are expressing discontent.

Whatever happened to honeymoon period for new govt? When MMS was made PM there was so many years of 'respect' and paid media about the dignified PM and the great work he was ushering in a new culture.

They are all bitten by RM bug.

I think regardless of who is in charge, Modi will decide a consensus policy on each issue and forces people to stick to it. No hanky panky.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 May 2014 20:46

So the poor guy does 400+ rallies, travels tens of thousands of kilometers, gives countless speeches at institutions, gives interviews and motivate its the entire nation. While leaders like MMJ, Nitin, Sushma, LKA itayadi sulked and did zilch as far as campaigning for Modi/BJP, now they are jumping back into the news and limelight.

SHAMELESS.

Modi has to ignore these people and the media for sometime, and do what he had promised to do so.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 May 2014 20:47

Karan M wrote: Read it again if you wish & if you don't get it even then, that's that. No point in me belaboring the obvious either.

Sorry Karan You may be clairvoyant and reading into Article what I am not able to read. I told you so earlier. I don't know how all the points , relevant or irrelevant, makes this election a largest democratic exercise in the world which his headline proclaims. Why don't we leave it at that. You agree with him , i is your prerogative and I am not convinced with his premise anyway and that is my prerogative. I don't need to convince others.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 14 May 2014 20:49

IMHO the NaMo style of running government is pick few but competent team members and I wont be surprised if his is a smallest cabinet in long long time if NDA gets 272+. I have faith in NaMo to be able to pick team he wants without making too many compromises just to keep pouting oldies in good humour.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 May 2014 20:50

Jarita wrote: It is like the plague of Europe which happened because myopic people in London killed the cats.
Better to neuter the dogs. They will go away on their own without suffering. People need to learn about biodiversity

Neutering can help to a limited extent. Dogs are territorial, so when the neutered pack that "owns" a territory gets old, the un-neutered ones that grow around the area will multiply and move into the neutered-pack area and dominate/drive out the neutered pack.

Cleaning up the trash on the streets is a much better option, it will kill off the dogs, cats, rats etc by cutting off their food supply and the city will look and feel clean and livable.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:51

ShankarCag wrote:
Jarita wrote:This cannot be a government for big business like Congress was government for biggest bidder
That is the AAP POV also. IMHO big business is good for everyone. Only requirement is that it should be ethical.

Sorry - no.
Please understand that other perspectives are not wrong. We have to take everyone along. The house has to be built on a strong foundation with multiple legs.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 May 2014 20:51

Re: Chanaakya:

I am not clairvoyant - I am applying my common sense about how a title of an article may interest people into exploring a topic which is related to the title and may address a wider issue than that title. Which btw is to many folks a more interesting exercise than merely the election itself in a far away country, about which they hear snippets.

A point that several other people also got and appreciated. That you didn't is your prerogative. But I merely pointed out that others DID get that article & can explain why. It's upto you to understand that or choose to be stubborn & say no. As you wish. Enough on this deviation anyhow.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 14 May 2014 20:52

LokeshC wrote:
Jarita wrote: It is like the plague of Europe which happened because myopic people in London killed the cats.
Better to neuter the dogs. They will go away on their own without suffering. People need to learn about biodiversity
Neutering can help to a limited extent. Dogs are territorial, so when the neutered pack that "owns" a territory gets old, the un-neutered ones that grow around the area will multiply and move into the neutered-pack area and dominate/drive out the neutered pack.

Cleaning up the trash on the streets is a much better option, it will kill off the dogs, cats, rats etc by cutting off their food supply and the city will look and feel clean and livable.

Need multi pronged compassionate strategy. Like the elephants. They are raiding villages because we have taken over their territory.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 May 2014 20:53

Arre Jaane bhi do bhai. We agree to disagree. NO??

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 May 2014 20:54

Jarita wrote:Sorry - no.
Please understand that other perspectives are not wrong. We have to take everyone along. The house has to be built on a strong foundation with multiple legs.

Jarita IMHO, environmental concerns do need to be addressed, but business cannot be ignored either. NaMo is coming in on with regards to growth, and it will be his priority. Unfortunately, the environment will be affected, however it will be done by process trying to minimize the impact if his record holds up, which is a far cry from the loot today.