Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jun 2013 05:24

I want to know more about Ekalavya?

Why did he come to Drona?

What was he before he came to Drona?
What did he do after in life?

Did he fight at Kuruksehtra?
And on whose side?

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 21 Jun 2013 05:29

IIRC, Eklavya learned to shoot without his thumb. He did fight in Kurukshetra, I think on the Kaurava side. I don't think he gained advanced knowledge of weapons (astras) - maybe I'm wrong. More like a skilled foot-soldier, unless I'm much mistaken.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jun 2013 06:49

May be Ekalavya was subdued due to his lower caste status of living, and drona did realize that Arjun would be made a low rung warrior if ekalavya had skills greater than arjun's..because of ekalavya's inherent capabilities to learn just observing the lessons given to Arjuna in hiding.

Drona was a partial guru, and has done injustice to ekalavya. Drona did similar injustice to karna (who has no idea of which caste he was), and both does not belong to warrior caste. Drona is a politician of all sorts to work towards only his agenda.

If we can get one drona in the Indian Army now, we would have already have 400-800 Arjuns now ordered to Avadi. But, his end actually relates to his politics as well. He was beheaded when meditating and his soul searching for his son's soul in heaven. I think, all these karma based politics has lessons in themselves. That is the learning.

So, interesting are the stories of hell and heaven concept existing in MB days. I dunno if this is the formulation and modulation of the stories as we aged, with multiple-line story telling, and every time enhancing and augmenting the stories for role modeling the society.

But, the stories themselves are complicated and must be told correctly with right messages sent.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 21 Jun 2013 08:02

I dont think caste, as we understand it in modern India, is mentioned in MB. Karna is known to be the son of the charioteer and is made a King (Anga-naresh) in a moment. This is never objected to in any telling of MB as far as I know. Drona chose to wrong Eklavya to protect his vow to Arjuna. He is a flawed personality.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 21 Jun 2013 08:55

SaiK wrote:May be Ekalavya was subdued due to his lower caste status of living, and drona did realize that Arjun would be made a low rung warrior if ekalavya had skills greater than arjun's..because of ekalavya's inherent capabilities to learn just observing the lessons given to Arjuna in hiding.

If caste was was such a strong thing then, then Drona has less reasons to panic. Because of his lower "caste" position, it woul be automatically ensured that regardless of skills, Eklavya would not be allowed rise above Arjuna. That Drona went to such great lengths, shows that "caste" was as yet fluid and not a deterministic category - in society. That categorization alone did not demarcate social hierarchies.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 10:59

Very simple issue has been given caste color.

Ekalavya's father hiranyadhanu fought against hastinapur, drona's employer. Ekalavya was a son of nishad king. Fearing that ekalavya could be mole in disguise drona did not recruit him and tried to neutralise threat by asking for thumb, ekalavya turned out to be a sincere person. Wiki page has more

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekalavya

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 11:05

Character and acts of dronacharya denotes fall of brahmins as institutions. Brahmin gurus used to be apolitical and their schools were provided in cash and kind without asking for it.

But, in changing time his school was no more given grants. Drona became so poor once that he could not arrange milk for young ashwatthama. Ashwatthama was given water mixed with flour so that it looks like milk.

For papi pet ka sawal he simply sided with kauravs.

This is how brahmin became shudra the sevaks, the servants and it is continued till date and time.

Shudra. Lord said chaturvarnyam mayasrishtam GUNA KARMA vibhagasha

Brahmins became sevaks, they are shudra by lords definition

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 21 Jun 2013 11:07

question for the gurus: why did not Hanuman fly back with Sita mata when he went to lanka?

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 11:38

Too much of BS is spread in the name of caste

But, even being a tribal ekalayvya was employed by jarasandaha.
Bhima married tribal female hidimba and had a son ghatotkacha.
Some nishads fougt alongside pandavas in mbw

More on nishad, ekalavya etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nishadha

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 11:45

By today's bs caste standards, lord krishna parmatma would have been an OBC, whom all high caste people worship.

Maharishi valmiki an untouchable, whose ramayana is ultimate reference, though tulsidasji was from higher caste.

Kabir persona non grata, hindus will say u r muslim, muslim will say you are kafir.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 21 Jun 2013 12:11

Lord Hanuman did make such offer - Sita refused - 1. She will not touch other man. 2. It would not be respectable. Considering what happened afterwards she was right in refusing.
Ramanaji - Ekalavla is the son of king of Nishadhas. The origion of Nishada is he was born out of Agni of Yagna to create Indra and when asked by the Rushis to follow dharma and rule as per the vedic Dharma, he refused and was banished to forests. So Nishadas are basically forest dwellers outside Vedic dharma. Wiki Cha cha has lot of rubbish on this. The wiki fellows do not know the Nishadha (tribals) to Nishidha (The kingdom of Nala described in great Kaavayam – of Nala Damayanthi love story)
I do not find any further reference to Ekalavya in the MH Story at least Telugu version of it. By cutting his thumb is lost his great knowledge and ability achieved with lot of hard work and dedication. That is his greatness. Ekalavya knows why his guru wants his thumb. Why we are not ready to accept the great devotion of Ekalavya to his Guru. To expect such a great person to continue to practice Dhanurvidya is stupid at best.
The Problem is, we see everything with eyes/values/prejudices of today. The weapons described and said to have used in MH are too powerful to be allowed wide spread learning and usage. Does any prudent society does allow such thing? What will be consequences of it such abilities are available to each and every one. Can every one of us have abilities to control the urge to use them? No.
You find in Ramayana and MH – this knowledge was shared or give by Gurus very sparingly. Undeserving people who got them always misused them – Drona has great love for his son – Ashwadhama to whom he has taught everything. Yet Ashwadhama ended up misusing – Narayanaa AtSra immediately after death of his father out of anger and used Bramha Sironamaka Astra out of fear to kill all Pandawas – including the unborn children. No doubt he is a great man but has lacked control on self. At the same time Arjuna never used such weapons on common people – At the start of war he says to Dharma Raja – “The Paasupatha Astra can destroy all the Kuru army in a blink of an eye but while giving the weapon Lord Shiva asked me not to use on common people so I will not using it. He has not used it even on Karna. He used it on the advise of Lord Krishna to carry the head of Saindhawa to his father Urdhakhatras hands so that it falls from his hard and he dies. (Otherwise Arjuna would have died) These incidents clear shows that to learn these weapons knowledge the Guru should carefully consider to whom they are teaching.
The neo caste leaders and their Dalit/Davida kazagam leaders may write lot of rubbish in Wikipedia. We need not to subscribe these ideas.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 21 Jun 2013 12:26

There is no basis for the statement that Lord Krishna is present day Yadava – thus OBC. Lord Krishna was Kshathriya of Yadu clan (Same as the Suraseni Yadava rulers of Devagiri) His upanayanam etc were described and he learned vedas etc from his Guru as per Srimadh Bhagavatham. Present day Yadavas are basically people who were rearing cattle in Ganga belt who meet in a meeting in 1931 (think, not sure) and decided that they community will be now called as Yadav. That is all. Same name only.

Yadava, Urshti, Bhoja, Andhaka and Andhaka families are mentioned in relation to Lord Krishna – Kunti is born in his family but was adopted by Kunthi Bhoja relative/ king who has no children. She was thus his aunt. Yadu and Kuru clan marriages – Kunthi to Pandu, Arjuna – Subhadra clearly shows Yadu are khathiyas. Lord himself has married princes of various kings families etc.

We are all degrading our self to Lalu level by even discussing these things. Let us top this.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 19:10

Narayana Rao wrote:There is no basis for the statement that Lord Krishna is present day Yadava – thus OBC. Lord Krishna was Kshathriya of Yadu clan (Same as the Suraseni Yadava rulers of Devagiri) His upanayanam etc were described and he learned vedas etc from his Guru as per Srimadh Bhagavatham. Present day Yadavas are basically people who were rearing cattle in Ganga belt who meet in a meeting in 1931 (think, not sure) and decided that they community will be now called as Yadav. That is all. Same name only.

Yadava, Urshti, Bhoja, Andhaka and Andhaka families are mentioned in relation to Lord Krishna – Kunti is born in his family but was adopted by Kunthi Bhoja relative/ king who has no children. She was thus his aunt. Yadu and Kuru clan marriages – Kunthi to Pandu, Arjuna – Subhadra clearly shows Yadu are khathiyas. Lord himself has married princes of various kings families etc.

We are all degrading our self to Lalu level by even discussing these things. Let us top this.

Narayan Garu,

This was a sarcasm for people who are propping up caste and unsuccessfully creating fissure. If you are not aware, some Brahmins of Gujarat and some kshatriyas of western India tried to include them in OBC to get various benefits.

I had put immediate disclaimer by saying that people in general do not care about such things.

Btw, upanayan karne se koi kshatriya nahi ban jata, na yadu vansh main paida hone se. Khud bhagwan ne kaha hai ke char varna guna karma ke hisab se jaane jaate hai upnayan aur koi particular vansh mein paida hone se nahi...

Anybody who fights for protecting dharma are kshatriya only.

God only said that.

****

Ekalavya was killed by Krishna Parmatma. Thus, Eklavya was a lucky guy.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 19:31

The refusal of drona to teach eklavya was political and there was nothing sacrosanct about Dronacharya and his guru traits. Dronacharya himself sided with adharmics, isn't that a proof enough.

Drona has nothing to do with giving knowledge to right or wrong people. he was sold out. He only asked the commanders to attack Abhimanyu, young son of his favourite disciple and expecting father. Dronacharya violated all the rules. How can one say Drona was honest and pavitra?

What ekalavya's story tells is determination of a person, even denied a place in gurukul, he without help of expertise, by sheer determination surpassed skills of Arjun.

Ekalavya and Bharat's position is no different. We are still denied technology, opportunities and deserved place on international stage by corrupt Dronacharyas of West. We are trying our best but here also some are sold to corrupt arrogant Dronacharyas of modern world.

I personally feel proud of Ekalavya. He could achieve something without dronacharya, which, the resourceful progeny of pandava and kaurava could not achieve being trained under Dron.

IIRC, Drona represents fall of Brahmins (not upanayan wala or brahmin kul mein paida hone wala brahmins) and Brahminical values.

***

If ekalavya being improper person denied training by Drons, we know what had happened when Drona gave all the shiksh disksha to his highly bred Ashwatthama. Vinash, Pap and Adharma only. And yes, how about great kul born Kauravas trained by Drona.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 21 Jun 2013 19:35

Maharishi valmiki an untouchable, whose ramayana is ultimate reference

Murugan ji, wasn't Valmiki a Brahmin?
http://www.bhagwanvalmiki.com/brahmin.htm

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 19:44

venug wrote:
Maharishi valmiki an untouchable, whose ramayana is ultimate reference
Murugan ji, wasn't Valmiki a Brahmin?
http://indiapulse.sulekha.com/forums/ph ... or-a-sudra
http://www.bhagwanvalmiki.com/brahmin.htm

He was a dacoit by karma, used to kill innocent animals. So by karma he was not even a shudra.

Btw, there is a valmiki dalit tribe too.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 19:48

Ekalavya is a first example of Self Learning.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jun 2013 19:55

I have learnt a lot from ekalavya, and he actually belongs to my then standard caste. I match.

But then caste standardization is the problem of governance. I agree with the analysis, but I am concerned at the message is not prevalent among the mass. It is important to remove the current gen caste std to as established ones, if we really want to follow a std. I think, if you break all facilities and partial quota system on caste based, and govern based on need based economic administration, then caste is not an issue, but rather something someone would like to be with, and a pride aspect.

It is sad scenario of current gen desh.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 20:09

There was actually nothing like caste shaste, tribe shribe and taboos related to it.

It was realpolitik. Hastinapur was powerful. Jarasandh was fighting against Hastinapur. Nihads were working for Jarasandh. Eklavya was nishad prince. He in a way snooped into drona's ashram and tried to lear technics.

Poor dronacharya did not recruit him as he could not recruit son of his master's enemies, he was a paid guru. Thats all.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 20:12

Why Krishna Parmatma was called Ran Chhod Rai (one who had done downhill skiing) and why still a parmatma (downhill skiing for the good of people)

When Krishna killed Kansa in Mathura, Jarasandha become enraged because of Krishna and the entire Yadavas clan on seeing his two daughters being widowed. So, Jarasandha attacked Mathura repeatedly. He attacked Mathura 17 times. Sensing danger over the repeated attack on Mathura by Jarasandha, Krishna relocated his capital city to Dwaraka. Dwaraka was an island and it was not possible for anyone to attack it at all. Hence, Jarasandha could not attack the Yadavas anymore.

when lord krishna found it difficult to mobilize and trouble people of Mathura being attacked by Jarasandh, he decided to leave the place so that Jarasand do not attack Mathura because Lord was there. He ran away and came down to Dwarka and became Kathiawadi Gujarati.

***

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jun 2013 20:17

Add to that he was an emissary for Jarasandha before Rukmini's swayamvara. He joins Rukmi's chase after Krishna and Rukmini.

What I would like to know is when he comes to Drona? After this encounter with Krishna or before?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jun 2013 20:26

Murugun jee.. you the one brought in the caste standards, now you switched to say, there was no caste shaste stuff then. I don't think you are successfully conveying what you want to say.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 21 Jun 2013 20:36

SaiK wrote:Murugun jee.. you the one brought in the caste standards, now you switched to say, there was no caste shaste stuff then. I don't think you are successfully conveying what you want to say.

But I am more concerned about falling brahminical standards of Mahabharat times. How a brahmin can fall to such a level.

Dronacharya not only trained adharmics but also sided with them, himself became adharmic and oversaw most gruesome act of killing helpless young abhimanyu against all set of rules he agreed with Pandavas. Sad

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jun 2013 21:28

While Bhisma is the commander the war was attrition style. Bhisma's war aim was to kill the Pandava forces and make them come to peace table. He is on a killing spree.

Once Drona takes over the war aims change to capture of Dharmaraja and thus changes to gruesome warfare.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jun 2013 22:06

Atri, Arjuna after the killing of Abhimanyu starts reasoning like your seven step process and comes to conclusions even before his brothers start explaining what happened.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 22 Jun 2013 01:37

Stop with this Brahmin and Drona bashing.
It is the right of a Guru to accept or Reject a pupil. Eklavaya was not disciple of Guyru Drona. Whatever he had learnt would be akin to cheating. Contemporary concept could be IP Protection.
To say that Eklavaya would have been a better warrior than Arjuna even when both were young kids at that time is too much of a stretch. Maybe and just maybe Eklavya had more promise but there are too many promises that were never fulfilled. He would have never got the exposure that Arjuna had to to Royal lineage.
Drona anyways was not a independent Guru but was employed by Hastinapur to teach Royal kids only. He would have beeen unprofessional in his cause if he took up tutions classes post college-time for outsiders.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 22 Jun 2013 01:41

ramana wrote:While Bhisma is the commander the war was attrition style. Bhisma's war aim was to kill the Pandava forces and make them come to peace table. He is on a killing spree.

Once Drona takes over the war aims change to capture of Dharmaraja and thus changes to gruesome warfare.

No Ramana ji, Pandavas were on the peace table before MBH War during Udyoga Parva but it was Duryodhna who refused to smoke peace pipe.
Bhishama's aim was to defend Hastinapur against Pandava forces whatever it took except for killing the sons of deceased king of Hastinapur.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 22 Jun 2013 01:56

Interestingly Karna the great hope of Dhuryodhna and the most hyped up character in MBH lasted less than 4 days in the gruesome war. He did not want to play under the captaincy of Bhishma and once Bhishma was no longer leading the campaign, he joins on 11th day of the war and Arjuna promptly dispatches him to heavens in less than four days. So much for the one who thought he was better warrior than all the Kuru clan put together.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 22 Jun 2013 02:00

Notwithstanding how Karna was, his defeat wasn't something that can be attributed to Arjuna alone. Great forces were at play to bring him down, but for the forces and Sri Krishna, Arjuna couldn't have done much.

Nilesh Oak · Post by **Nilesh Oak** » 22 Jun 2013 02:57

VikasRaina wrote:Interestingly Karna the great hope of Dhuryodhna and the most hyped up character in MBH lasted less than 4 days in the gruesome war. He did not want to play under the captaincy of Bhishma and once Bhishma was no longer leading the campaign, he joins on 11th day of the war and Arjuna promptly dispatches him to heavens in less than four days. So much for the one who thought he was better warrior than all the Kuru clan put together.

VikasRaina ji,

Am in agreement with your comments on Karna, however do want to state minor corrections.

Karna joined the fight beginning 11th day of War, fought for 5 days when Drona was the General (Kaurva side), and then became general, himself, for 2 days.. 16th and 17th day of War and was killed by Arjuna.. on 17th day of War.

In total he fought for 7 days.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jun 2013 03:54

So in those 7 days how many times he was forced to flee to save his life to fight another time?

On the 14th day in the Padma Vuyha, Abhimanyu makes Karnaflee before he comes back and strikes him from behind.

Vikas Raina, There is a reason to study the Ekalavya question. Modern projection of him is that of a tribal who was denied knowledge.

The real story is he is tribal prince, who was part of Jarasandha's army, had been chasing Krishna during the Rukmini haran episode and seeks dhanur vidya from Drona.

Drona consults Vyasa/Kripa who remind him of the non-cordial relations between Jarasandha and Hastinapura his employer and the foolishness in training known enemies.

My suspicion is that Ekalavya was trained in other arts and having failed with them he was acquiring dhanur vidya.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 22 Jun 2013 04:21

kumarn wrote:question for the gurus: why did not Hanuman fly back with Sita mata when he went to lanka?

I see that Narayana Rao has already given the answer.
I will state what I know-
Sita Mata refused to come with Hanumna due to the following-
she is the consort of Vishnu who came to earth along with Sri Rama. Sri Rama specific puprose was to finish Ravana. No one can touch her becuase of her pativrata. whoever sets his eyes or hand son her will burn. It is said that Sita Mata was not the real one but a different one when Ravana took her to Lanka. During Agni Pariksha after Ravana dies the real Sita came out of the Agni. It is said that she was protected by Agni safely for SriRama to complete his task.

If Sita Mata comes to SriRama, then his specific purpose will not be achieved of vanquishing Ravana. Also his name will be sullied a s great and just warrior.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 22 Jun 2013 04:25

Murugan ji, wasn't Valmiki a Brahmin?
http://indiapulse.sulekha.com/forums/ph ... or-a-sudra
http://www.bhagwanvalmiki.com/brahmin.htm

He was a dacoit by karma, used to kill innocent animals. So by karma he was not even a shudra.

Btw, there is a valmiki dalit tribe too

.
isnt Valmiki an anthill also.

The name of valmiki came about as he was mediating for months leading onto an anthill forming over his body.

His original name is unknown. he wa a dacoit, later came across a sage? or Narada who advised agianst killings and dacoity.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 22 Jun 2013 04:37

There was a fight between Bhishma and Karna about the MB war and its composition. More of Karna fighting Bhishma rather than Bhishma having problems with karna.
Bhishma being the senior was made commander in cheif of kaurava army. Karna refused to fight under Bhishma for 10 whole days.

But Karna being close confidante of Duryodhana wanted the mantle on himself. he thought lightly of both Bhishma and Drona. he suspected both of them to be partial to Pandavas. It goes back to his childhood days.

he wanted the defeat of both Bhishma and Drona secretly hoping he will win the war.
he till the end thought that he was invincble.
he was surpemely self confident of his abilities may be arrogant due to this.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Also he had promised Kuntidevi(his original mother) that he will spare all his brothers but will kill Arjuna if given a chance as there was lot of bad blood between them.
he spared all 4 of them duirng the war but dies at the hands of Arjuna.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Durydodhana was not that shattered when Bhishma and Drona fell, but was devastated when karna dies. Then only he had self doubts about the whole MB war.
However he went into war and paid the price.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 22 Jun 2013 04:41

Murugan wrote:Why Krishna Parmatma was called Ran Chhod Rai (one who had done downhill skiing) and why still a parmatma (downhill skiing for the good of people)

When Krishna killed Kansa in Mathura, Jarasandha become enraged because of Krishna and the entire Yadavas clan on seeing his two daughters being widowed. So, Jarasandha attacked Mathura repeatedly. He attacked Mathura 17 times. Sensing danger over the repeated attack on Mathura by Jarasandha, Krishna relocated his capital city to Dwaraka. Dwaraka was an island and it was not possible for anyone to attack it at all. Hence, Jarasandha could not attack the Yadavas anymore.
when lord krishna found it difficult to mobilize and trouble people of Mathura being attacked by Jarasandh, he decided to leave the place so that Jarasand do not attack Mathura because Lord was there. He ran away and came down to Dwarka and became Kathiawadi Gujarati.

***

Submerged city of Dwaraka has been found isnt it.

It gives credence to the belief crores of sdres have that it is true event.
lot of events in Hindu religion have place location and time span (though it has changed the way we calculate time).
many are original events that have occurred.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jun 2013 07:07

krisna wrote:
Murugan ji, wasn't Valmiki a Brahmin?
http://indiapulse.sulekha.com/forums/ph ... or-a-sudra
http://www.bhagwanvalmiki.com/brahmin.htm

He was a dacoit by karma, used to kill innocent animals. So by karma he was not even a shudra.

Btw, there is a valmiki dalit tribe too
.
isnt Valmiki an anthill also.

The name of valmiki came about as he was mediating for months leading onto an anthill forming over his body.

His original name is unknown. he wa a dacoit, later came across a sage? or Narada who advised agianst killings and dacoity.

His name was Ratnakara. He was born of a rishi and his wife. The wife used to eat fruits brought by a tribal. The rishi told her not eat them as the tribal had ill intentions. The child born was very termagant. They gave him up to the tribal to raise him. He became a dacoit and held up the sapta rishis one day.

The sapta rishis asked him if his family was willing to share his paap. He was shocked to find out they didn't.
So he asked for a way to redeem himself. He was taught the rama namam as "mara! mara!' by the sapta rishis.

And an anthill grew round him and he became Valmiki.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 22 Jun 2013 07:09

krisna wrote: isnt Valmiki an anthill also.

The name of valmiki came about as he was mediating for months leading onto an anthill forming over his body.

His original name is unknown. he wa a dacoit, later came across a sage? or Narada who advised agianst killings and dacoity.

The story I know is that Valmiki tried to rob Narada. Narada asked why he was doing such sinful deeds, and Valmiki said he did it for the sake of his family. So Narada asked him - "will your family, who shares the fruits of your deeds, also share in the sins you accumulate?" Valmiki said - "of course they will." Narada told him not to be so sure, said to go check with his wife and kids individually.

When Valmiki asked his family if they would share his sins, they all said - "did we ask you to provide for us in this sinful manner? Your sins are your own." So Valmiki realized the futility of his occupation, and ran to Narada to ask for how he could atone. Narada told him that a great man, God incarnate, by the name of Rama had once walked the earth, and Valmiki could atone for his sins by writing the story of Ram. Which is what Valmiki did.

Edit: Ah, I see Ramana sir beat me to it. This is another version of the same story, I guess.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Jun 2013 07:11

Great story of - what is that piskology stuff hakim saab used to talk about? - yes, I remember now cognitive dissonance.

Nilesh Oak · Post by **Nilesh Oak** » 22 Jun 2013 07:37

Valmiki Ramayana does not allude to any of these versions (discussed above in this thread on BRF)-origin of Valmiki.
--------------
In Vālmīki's Ramayana itself he is referred as Prachetsa in this verse listed below:

प्रचेत्सोऽहं दशमः पुत्रो राघवनंन्दन | न स्मराम्यनृतं वाक्यमिमौ तु तव पुत्रकौ || 96:16

In another verse, it is also stated that is from the lineage of the sage Bhārgava

संनिबद्धं हि श्लोकानां चतुर्विंशत्सहस्रकम् | उपाख्यानशतं चैव भार्गवेण तपस्विना || 94:24
-----------------
I copied above verses from Wikipedia on Valmiki (I don't have Valmiki Ramayana handy with me at this time). Wikipedia entry is a mixed baggage. And while we are quick to blame content of Wikipedia, rightfully so, partly it is also due to our own confusion.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jun 2013 08:04

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmiki

Has nice sketches.