Indian Space Program Discussion

[Neela]

Radhakrishnan live now.
- Launch postponed. No launch today.
- Fuel leaked from 2nd stage.
- Fuel drained from 2nd and 3rd stages
- Vehicle will be moved to VAB. \
- New date to be announced.

[Sri]

Better late then sorry. Lets hope for a quick turn around.

[nash]

fuel leak and drain, any possibility of sabotaging here ..
good thing is, detected in advance.

[SSSalvi]

Vehicle going back .. so a delay of few days is expected.

First de-fuelling on Launch Pad and then move to Assembly Bay

[member_23694]

Radhakrishnan live now.
- Launch postponed. No launch today.
- Fuel leaked from 2nd stage.
- Fuel drained from 2nd and 3rd stages
- Vehicle will be moved to VAB. \
- New date to be announced.

Good that problem found in ground but I fail to understand why such issues comes in liquid Vikas engine in case of GSLV and never in PSLV
Once problem in liquid strap on and now this

[kit]

that could have led to a catastrophic explosion well on the ground itself !

[prashanth]

Vehicle going back .. so a delay of few days is expected.

First de-fuelling on Launch Pad and then move to Assembly Bay

Stages have to be disassembled and inspected thoroughly, followed by reassembly. Are you sure this can be completed within a few days?

[Sridhar]

It took 18 days in the case of GSLV-D1 for the second attempt after the fuel leakage in the strap on stage. Perhaps the strap on stage is easier. ISRO will have an update in any case.

[kvraghavaiah]

Hi guys there is ambigous news.

The leakage is actually in Cryo stage according to IBN Live. I think this is true, because Cryostage filling was in progress at the time of identification of the leakage.

both 2nd and 3rd stages have been drained now as all liquid stages have to drained and refilled in case of any delay. I thin strapons also will be drained now.

[kit]

nowadays some problems are with the low tech end of high tech equipment , sometimes like sealing s and fasteners.. before people jump into china conclusions !

[kvraghavaiah]

nowadays some problems are with the low tech end of high tech equipment , sometimes like sealing s and fasteners.. before people jump into china conclusions !

It shows negligence by a few employees of ISRO or un-skilled work force (effect of reservation where dangerous); when many people in the country waited for this launch with out sleep and food.
Why does this happen more in India and not in other countries?

[wilson_th]

Leakage can happen due to multiple reasons ... eg:-


http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... ts/4328638

During weeks of preflight tests, salty Pacific air had corroded an aluminum nut in the engine. Just before liftoff, when the propellant valves opened, the nut failed and caused a leak. When the engines ignited 2 seconds before liftoff, the spilled fuel caught fire. Thirty-four seconds after the Falcon launched, flames burned through a pneumatic line and shut down the engine. The rocket crashed into the Pacific a few seconds later.

[vinod]

nowadays some problems are with the low tech end of high tech equipment , sometimes like sealing s and fasteners.. before people jump into china conclusions !

It shows negligence by a few employees of ISRO or un-skilled work force (effect of reservation where dangerous); when many people in the country waited for this launch with out sleep and food.
Why does this happen more in India and not in other countries?

wow - what conclusions!!! How quick too... effect of reservation! Happens only in India! Looks like you have something else in your mind. Please provide evidence before you jump into conculsions.

[Varoon Shekhar]

^^^

The ISRO site itself says the leak was in the 2nd stage. IBN *may* be generalising about 'cryogenic engine', when what they mean is 'rocket', just thinking out loud here. The ISRO site is more first hand, isn't it.

Yes, it is disappointing and irritating. Wish they would get these glitches out of the way.

[Varoon Shekhar]

While there is no evidence of sabotage( as yet) it is pretty certain that several countries don't want India to succeed in its GSLV programme. After all, that would bring on a new competitor, and reduce revenue for themselves. The medium lift vehicle is not seen as threatening.

[vina]

Foggedabout inn dum I saw the isro press conf where the launch call off was announced and they specifically said 2nd stage and that nothing was involved with the crogenic engine

[SSridhar]

Hi guys there is ambigous news.

The leakage is actually in Cryo stage according to IBN Live.

The Hindu earlier reported about the leak taking place while filling liquid Hydrogen in the second stage. I told them about the error and liquid hydrogen being in the third stage. They have now updated their site to say the following:

The leakage was reportedly noticed during the loading of liquid propellants for the second stage.

It adds,

The immediate task of the ISRO team was to drain out the liquid propellants that was loaded for the second stage and the four liquid L40 strap-ons of the rocket.

[SaiK]

cut+paste to quick stardom is the norm of ddm... btw, milgrim's shock experiments works in other areas of bandwagon theories for mass communication. people are only eager to listen to crap and conclude rather come to a logical analysis of news. 80% of the news are anyways telling no truth.

[Victor]

While there is no evidence of sabotage( as yet) it is pretty certain that several countries don't want India to succeed in its GSLV programme. After all, that would bring on a new competitor, and reduce revenue for themselves. The medium lift vehicle is not seen as threatening.

Specially since they know how low our costs could be compared to theirs. ISRO operates on a shoestring compared even to the Chinese and if we have a dependable workhorse heavy lifter, they will all be out of business.

Unfortunately, these glitches lengthen the success streak needed to achieve credibility wrt the other launchers and attract foreign payloads without high insurance costs. But that doesn't matter at this stage. We need to make GSLV series a dependable workhorse for our own needs--Chandrayan 2, manned mission etc.

[kvraghavaiah]

nowadays some problems are with the low tech end of high tech equipment , sometimes like sealing s and fasteners.. before people jump into china conclusions !

It shows negligence by a few employees of ISRO or un-skilled work force (effect of reservation where dangerous); when many people in the country waited for this launch with out sleep and food.
Why does this happen more in India and not in other countries?

wow - what conclusions!!! How quick too... effect of reservation! Happens only in India! Looks like you have something else in your mind. Please provide evidence before you jump into conculsions.

Hi, I am not concerned specifically about the reservation system in key fields like research and medicine. I am concerned about the quality of the human resources and work culture. Reservation is one of the factors leading to low work quality in these fields. Other factors like brain drain to other countries also are there, where little interest is shown by the ruling parties. What happened today itself is the evidence for my conclusion. Faults can happen occassionally, but not so frequently. We have to condemn where necessary. I did that. It is a way to put pressure so that the entire system may try to correct itself. As I posted in one of the posts above, I was more excited about this launch than about my marriage which happened recently. I even tok my engineering seat ina college near sullurpet(Near SDSC) just because i love rocket science. I have a reason to feel hurt.

[Varoon Shekhar]

^^^

Sorry to hear that, I can empathise with with your strong feelings. I too was really looking forward to this launch. I feel hurt and a bit of disgust. A prompt turnaround with a successful mission, will quickly cure these negative sentiments!

[vinod]

Hi, I am not concerned specifically about the reservation system in key fields like research and medicine. I am concerned about the quality of the human resources and work culture. Reservation is one of the factors leading to low work quality in these fields. Other factors like brain drain to other countries also are there, where little interest is shown by the ruling parties. What happened today itself is the evidence for my conclusion. Faults can happen occassionally, but not so frequently. We have to condemn where necessary. I did that. It is a way to put pressure so that the entire system may try to correct itself. As I posted in one of the posts above, I was more excited about this launch than about my marriage which happened recently. I even tok my engineering seat ina college near sullurpet(Near SDSC) just because i love rocket science. I have a reason to feel hurt.

You may or may not have a point on reservation. That's not relevant. The launch failure is not evidence implicating anything right now.. least of all reservation. So, let's wait until they come back with technical evidence, if it pertains to human error, may be more training and checks are required. This is new stuff, so faults will be there.. We need to iron it out through testing, checks and trainings. No point in blaming anything else.

[juvva]

ISRO press release:
"
August 19, 2013 PRINT THIS PAGE

GSLV-D5 Launch Called-Off

The Launch of the GSLV-D5 scheduled for 1650 hrs today (August 19, 2013) is called off, as a leak is observed in the UH25 fuel system of the liquid second stage during the pre-launch pressurisation phase on the vehicle just two hours before the scheduled lift-off.

The propellants are being drained from the Cryogenic Stage, Liquid Second Stage and the four liquid Strap-ons of GSLV-D5. The vehicle will be moved back to the Vehicle Assembly Building for further actions.


The revised launch date will be announced after a detailed assessment.

"

Looks like the leak happened / became detectable during fuel tank pressurization. IIRC there was a similar issue durin a earlier PSLV flight. Turn around time was not too long - as I remember it.

[member_23694]

PSLV - from extra - cautious in the first launch to extreme confidence now. Now only an unfortunate failure of PSLV can
make headlines.
GSLV - from first launch to now always some or the other leakage / issues.
Looking at the GSLV flight history, it seems a few failures could not be attributed to the
Cryo stage actually NOT working but because of other reasons.
Since this is such a critical launch and the country was assured of multiple checks/rechecks etc ,
so the only thing acceptable this time is a success or some new issue with Indian Cryogenic engine leading to failure.
Any issue with 1st stage / 2nd stage in flight which could have prevented even the start/test/verification of cryogenic engine
would be heart breaking.
This time AT LEAST please ensure that the cryo stage gets a chance to perform.
Waited for 3 years , will wait for some more time,

[Gagan]

If the leak is minor, and they can locate and quickly fix / replace part etc. Hopefully the Laucher can be wheeled out in a few weeks time.
Hoping for a late August - Early Sept launch.

Keep up the good work ISRO ! everyone here waiting with bated breath for success.

[SSridhar]

IIRC, the GSLV-D1 strap-on Vikas failure was a manufacturing defect and it took 3 weeks to re-launch after setting it right. The Vikas fabrication partners are BrahMos, Godrej & Boyce and MTAR.

[juvva]

If the leak is minor, and they can locate and quickly fix / replace part etc. Hopefully the Laucher can be wheeled out in a few weeks time.
Hoping for a late August - Early Sept launch.

Keep up the good work ISRO ! everyone here waiting w ith bated breath for success.

That is assuming they do not have to destack the rocket, and they can replace the defective component in the VAB itself. It maybe faster to replace the entire stage with a standby stage..if one is available.

[merlin]

IIRC, the GSLV-D1 strap-on Vikas failure was a manufacturing defect and it took 3 weeks to re-launch after setting it right. The Vikas fabrication partners are BrahMos, Godrej & Boyce and MTAR.

Wasn't that done by replacing with a spare Vikas strap-on? I think in this case they may not have a spare stage and may need to de-stack and then fix and re-stack. At least a month I would think.

[symontk]

IIRC, the GSLV-D1 strap-on Vikas failure was a manufacturing defect and it took 3 weeks to re-launch after setting it right. The Vikas fabrication partners are BrahMos, Godrej & Boyce and MTAR.

Wasn't that done by replacing with a spare Vikas strap-on? I think in this case they may not have a spare stage and may need to de-stack and then fix and re-stack. At least a month I would think.

Every ISRO launch has entire vehicle duplicated stage wise with additional spares for critical, transport & maintenance issues

[Varoon Shekhar]

symontk:Every ISRO launch has entire vehicle duplicated stage wise with additional spares for critical, transport & maintenance issues

That's really good to know. A dumb layman can be forgiven for thinking that India doesn't have the depth to produce a duplicate vehicle, and have it ready for assembly, in the event of glitches. Perhaps we won't have to wait as long as a month for a re-launch!

Article from TOI: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 934982.cms

CHENNAI: It was a tense night at the Sriharikota spaceport after a leak was detected in the liquid propellant tank of GSLV-D5 two hours before its scheduled launch at 4.50pm.

Isro scientists have remotely drained the fuels from the second stage and the indigenous cryogenic engine. Isro chairman K Radhakrishnan told TOI that the draining process was completed on Tuesday morning. "It's still not safe to go near the rocket because there could be fumes and other impurities in the air. We will move the vehicle to the assembly building on Sunday or Monday to ascertain the damage," he said.

The GSLV-D5 launch has been a much awaited milestone for the Indian Space Research Organisation as it uses an indigenous cryogenic engine. After the US imposed sanctions post Pokhran II in 1998, Russia, which was the sole supplier of cryogenic engine, refused to part with the technology, forcing India to accelerate its cryogenic engine project which started in the early 1990s. With six of the seven Russian cryogenic engines in Isro's custody being used up, India has no option but to develop its own to launch satellites weighing up to 5,000kg.

It is also vital for India's proposed manned mission to space.

Cryogenics, the science of extreme low temperatures, has remained a tricky technology to tame, with only the US, Russia, China, Japan and the European Space Agency mastering it. Isro's Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre in Mahendragiri in Tamil Nadu developed the indigenous engine which was to propel GSLV-D5 carrying telecommunication satellite GSAT-14 on Monday.

About two hours before the launch a camera caught the leak that appeared like a smoke coming out of the second stage of the rocket. "We don't know yet if the tank or any of the components was damaged. We will know by Monday," Radhakrishnan said. Asked if the rocket would have been destroyed in flight had the leak been not detected, the Isro chairman said the system would have anyway found it out before the launch. "We can't say if we would've lost the vehicle (if the leak was not detected)," he said.

[bharats]

ISRO may use standby engine to launch GSLV
BY:IANS
From: The Economic Times
20 Aug, 2013, 05.06PM IST
Link: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 935355.cms

CHENNAI: Indian space agency ISRO will look at options of using a standby engine for the early launch of its heavy geosynchronous satellite launch vehicle (GSLV) after examining what forced the postponement of the launch Monday, an official said. "We have a standby for the second stage engine. But first we have to study the problem. If the problem is due to a faulty component, then we have to look at the batch to which the component belonged and have to replace the entire components from that batch," an Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) official told IANS preferring anonymity. He said there was no point in replacing an engine with another faulty one.According to him, ISRO will look at different options like using a standby engine, replacing the component or correcting the problem. "If the problem is external, it will be easy to correct. But if it is internal, then the engine may have to be dismantled," he said.

ISRO had called off the launch of its GSLV rocket carrying the communication satellite GSAT-14 after the liquid fuel started leaking like a tap from the rocket's second stage. The GSLV is a three stage/engine with four strap-on motors hugging the first stage. The first stage is powered by solid fuel while the four strap-on motors and the second stage are powered by liquid fuel. The third is the cryogenic engine powered by liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen.

"This is the first time we have seen such a fault," said a source close to ISRO. According to officials, the second stage is identical for ISRO's two rockets - its lighter rocket polar satellite launch vehicle and GSLV. While GSLV is under the development stage, the PSLV is termed as the space agency's workhorse and used to launch Indian and foreign satellites. In 2010, ISRO had to postpone a PSLV launch as it found "a marginal drop in the pressure in the second stage of the vehicle during mandatory checks".

At that time the faulty part was inaccessible as the rocket stages had been fully assembled. ISRO had to dismantle the second stage to correct the fault. In 2013, ISRO had to postpone the launch of its PSLV rocket carrying India's first navigational satellite after it found a problem in one of the electro-hydraulic control actuators in the second stage. Here again, the fully assembled rocket had to be dismantled to replace the actuator, an assembly of several components.

In both cases, the second stage was not fuelled up and hence did not pose a problem for ISRO. But the problem in the GSLV supposed to fly Aug 19 is complex as the leaking second stage was fuelled up and the third and critical stage - the cryogenic engine - was being fuelled for its flight. "Some of the components in the second stage, like sealants, have limited life after fuelling. They might become brittle if not used within a specified period," officials told IANS. The one comforting factor is that the crucial cryogenic engine is safe and it does not face such limited life component problems, an ISRO official told IANS. According to them, the first task for them is to drain the fuel from the second and third/cryogenic stage. Following that, the engines will be decontaminated for fuel and traces of fuel. "Then the rocket will be moved back to the assembly building and a detailed study of the problem will be made and corrective action will be taken," the official said. However, ISRO officials could not say when the rocket would be ready for launch.

"Advanced countries test their stages several times before it is used in a rocket. In India, owing to vendor constraints, we have to make our rockets operational after a few tests," R.V. Perumal a retired ISRO rocket expert said.

[vinod]

"Advanced countries test their stages several times before it is used in a rocket. In India, owing to vendor constraints, we have to make our rockets operational after a few tests," R.V. Perumal a retired ISRO rocket expert said.

Does anyone what he is referring to? I was under the impression India had to do checks and tests more, because they don't have that much money floating around to do it all over again.

[member_24808]

...great...everytime gslv is set to launch there is always something that goes wrong, well hopefully in time ISRO will master this technology and we can finally end our dependence on french rockets. Does anyone know what the new launch date is?

[abhijitm]

Does anyone what he is referring to? I was under the impression India had to do checks and tests more, because they don't have that much money floating around to do it all over again.

Slow turnaround time from the vendors may be. This could attribute to lack of skilled manpower and state of the art production tech.

[NRao]

vendor constraints

Satellite owners.

[disha]

...great...everytime gslv is set to launch there is always something that goes wrong, well hopefully in time ISRO will master this technology and we can finally end our dependence on french rockets. Does anyone know what the new launch date is?

Tomorrow.

There is always tomorrow.

[abhijitm]

And I am giving up ***** until the launch.

You hang in there buddy

OTOH, GSAT-7 launch on 30-Aug.

[SSridhar]

Meanwhile, INSAT-3D Payload Turned On - ISRO

[sanjaykumar]

You hang in there buddy

Yeah I'm eating a lot of cornflakes. http://tinyurl.com/b57m6bt

[pankajs]

GSLV relaunch will take several months

It would be at least two months before the Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle D5 (GSLV D5) blasts off from Sriharikota despite a dismayed Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) working overtime to figure out what went wrong last Monday.

“Even if the defect is found to be a minor one, it would take at least two months. The stages (GSLV is a three-stage rocket) have to be dismantled for examination. If it’s a major problem, it might take longer,’’ an ISRO source said from Sriharikota.