Eastern Europe/Ukraine

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 17 Jan 2015 13:20

Clearly, UkBapzis face some interesting choices. Doesn't the Black Sea get covered with ice? In fact, flying over that region circa Jan. 5, I seemed to be seeing an ice-covered sea already. So do Black Sea ports such as Odessa remain open for supertankers? Will Turkey sell to the UkBapZis?

Now that Donetsk airport seems to have fallen to the "Free Donbass" types, maybe a couple of the other cities will do likewise? UkBapZis will have to commandeer all fuel to run their tanks and APCs so that they don't have to be walking outside all the time, while the FDs can just zip over the border and get gas, or bring in some by airlift (not a lot..)

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 17 Jan 2015 14:40

Dont get ahead of yourself. Russia doesnt want donbass to come out of ukraine. Ukraine will accept nothing less than division.

Flow back from baltics and poland types wont materialise in time. There is good three months of winter left. Pretty much unavoidable cold (no coal, no gas) for ukraine. But not because of no fuel. Fuel is not a problem, just the incompatibility of the heating systems is. Petrol/gasoline prices are headed to zero -- killing venezuela, russia, saudi arabia, iran all in one shot. It might get to $30 a barrel. So no problems for ukraine on that front.

In the end, bad for EU and Russia both. The airport is not much of a prize, never was. And hasnt really fallen either. Just the tower went down. The battle lines will settle by the river banks, and not the dnieper either.

No one bothers about ukraine anymore, they are the new moldova.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 18 Jan 2015 16:38

^^ This looks like a Russian response to the European parliament`s fairly anti-Russian resolution. That they have stated that they will supply Europe via turkey
Resolution here -
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/get ... anguage=EN

Dont think gas supply has been cut though. Just a threat regarding bypassing Ukraine. No European country saying anything about gas supply cut. Would have caused a furore if this had happened.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 18 Jan 2015 19:58

Russia is keeping itself out of the EU/USA's free speech vs. mohammed's cartoon fight by banning speech that offends religious sentiments -- they know very well that the EU/USA would gladly do another Chechnya/kosovo in their backyard to deflect the jihadi murderers away from EU/US interests. This is a smart tactical ploy for now to keep the fight restricted to EU/USA and not allowing the jihadis to redirect their focus on Russia. So Russia keeps its relations tight with one of the main sponsors of IS in Turkey, and the IS is now spreading its wings to Pakistan, and it is for Iran and India and Afghanistan to take them out in the end, but only after they have burnt the pakistani army and government down to the ground.

http://www.ibtimes.com/charlie-hebdo-re ... ee-1783656

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 18 Jan 2015 20:54

Fighting is escalating in Ukraine again.
Ukraine Junta retakes Donetsk airport.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... -operation

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Jan 2015 23:51

http://rt.com/news/223791-ukraine-massi ... g-donetsk/

18:55 GMT, Jan 18, 2015
Ukraine army targeted Gorlovka with 500kg air bombs – Donetsk militia leader

Donetsk shelled as Kiev 'orders massive fire' on militia-held E. Ukraine
Published time: January 18, 2015

Ukrainian troops have launched a massive assault on militia-held areas Sunday morning after an order from Kiev, a presidential aide said. The self-proclaimed Donetsk republic’s leader accused Kiev of trying to restart the war.

The order to launch the offensive was issued early approximately at 6:00 am, according to Yury Biryukov, an aide to President Petro Poroshenko.

“Today we will show HOW good we are at jabbing in the teeth,” he wrote on his Facebook page, a mode of conveying information favored by many Ukrainian officials.

In a later post he said: “They are now striking a dot. Uuu…” in a reference to Tochka-U (‘tochka’ means ‘dot’ in Russian), a tactical ballistic missile, one of the most powerful weapons Ukraine so far deployed against rebel forces.

“That wasn’t a dot but ellipsis. Strong booms,” he added.

Reports from the ground confirmed a sharp escalation of clashes across the front line, with particularly heavy artillery fire reported at Gorlovka.

“Locals in Donetsk said they haven’t heard such intensive shelling since summer,” Valentin Motuzenko, a military official in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, told Interfax news agency.

“The Ukrainian military are using all kinds of weapons, Grad multiple rocket launchers, mortars…” Motuzenko said.

A source at the site told RT that a group of OSCE monitors have demanded that the Ukrainian military stop the shelling. The source added that there is a danger that the group may itself come under artillery fire.

A picture shows a building destroyed by shelling in eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk on January 18, 2015 (AFP Photo / Aleksander Gayuk)
A picture shows a building destroyed by shelling in eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk on January 18, 2015 (AFP Photo / Aleksander Gayuk)

READ MORE: OSCE identifies direction of deadly Donbass bus rocket

Aleksandr Zakharchenko, who was elected in November the prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, has accused Kiev of using the ceasefire to regroup their troops and boost their armaments, and now of trying to restart the all-out war.

“It’s clear that Kiev is making an attempt to take revenge for the serious military defeat it took from the militia last year,” he added. “Kiev always ignored our numerous suggestions to pull back heavy weapons from the disengagement line.”

“At the moment, we are aware of five civilians killed,” the Donetsk administration said, adding that the shelling of the city by Ukrainian forces is still under way.

Several residential buildings, a shop and a bus station have been seriously damaged by artillery fire in the city, RIA Novosti reported.

The Putilovsky Bridge, which is located near the Donetsk airport, has also been destroyed in the shelling, RT’s Roman Kosarev reported from the scene.

There were also reports of attacks on the town of Makeevka and several nearby villages.

The militia added that at least one shell hit a residential area in central Donetsk rather than the outskirts of the city.

Two people have died and 16 other received injureies after a Ukrainian shell exploded at bus station in city of Gorlovka, the press service of the People’s Republic of Donetsk said.

Several buildings in the city also suffered direct hits during the bombardment, including four schools and a kindergarten, the press service added.

Witnesses said that Kiev used aviation in the assault, with Sukhoi Su-24 warplanes jets seen in the air above Gorlovka.

The ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People’s Republic of Donetsk (DPR) has called upon the international community to address the worsening of the situation in southeast Ukraine and “make every effort to stop unpunished mass murder in the heart of Europe."

“The People’s Republic of Donetsk again suffered a treacherous and large-scale attack from Ukraine,” which is aimed at the destruction of the republic’s population and infrastructure, Aleksandr Kofman, DPR foreign minister, said in a statement.

The actions of the Kiev forces in Donetsk Region “bear all characteristics of serious war crimes,” Kofman said.

Moscow is seriously concerned by the by the renewal of shelling of residential areas of the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk by Kiev forces, the Russian president’s press secretary, Dmitry Peskov, said.

Ukrainian city of Donetsk on January 18, 2015 (AFP Photo / Aleksander Gayuk)
The actions of the Ukrainian military in no way promote the settlement of the conflict between Kiev and the eastern regions, he said.

"Of course, the stance of the Russian side will be expressed. Of course, it involves serious concerns over the resumption of full scale warfare in Donetsk, including shelling of populated residential areas. And, of course, such a state of affairs doesn’t promote the fulfillment of the Minsk agreements [from September 5] and the further search for a peaceful solution,” Peskov told Govorit Moskva radio station.

The escalation comes after several days of violent clashes at the ruins of the Donetsk International Airport, a scene of constant fighting over the months of shaky ceasefire between Kiev’s troops and local militia forces.

The militia, who have accused the Ukrainian military of launching constant attacks on Donetsk from their positions at the airport, reported taking over the location this week. Kiev denied this report.

The Ukrainian Security and Defense Council confirmed the resumption of hostilities and that Kiev's objective was to recapture the airport.

Kiev launched it's retaliation days after President Poroshenko ordered a new wave of mobilization into the country’s armed forces. The government plans to hold at least three conscription campaigns over 2015 to sustain its military operations in the east.

The escalation of violence comes after a controversial incident at Kiev’s checkpoint near the town of Volnovakha, where 12 passengers were killed on Tuesday. Kiev blamed the deaths on the militia, saying it was hit by a Grad rocket. The DNR forces denied the accusations and said the bus was targeted by the Ukrainian troops themselves – either in a tragic incident or as a staged provocation – and said the damage visible in the picture of the bus is consistent with a less powerful weapon, possibly a landmine.

An OSCE observer team studied blast craters near the checkpoint and confirmed the direction they came from. Russia’s permanent representative to the OSCE, Andrey Kelin, said the direction runs along the disengagement line separating militia- and Kiev-controlled areas, which makes it difficult to determine who fired the rockets.

The observers did not identify the type of rockets used.
]

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Jan 2015 00:43

Looks like time for a few more convoys driven by men in white shorts?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 19 Jan 2015 11:10

Well "winter fighting, here we come?" has come to pass. Russia has no more realpolitik levers left, gas is mainly going around ukraine.

Ukraine has repaired and stockpiled a small (read 100,000s) army. Dont feel like waiting around. Have enough petrol and weapons to last weeks, and sufficient rate of western support to keep up.

This is beyond convoy level strength. Unclear if the separatists have been preparing for this. They are numerically far inferior for sure.

Ukraine also wont make it to news, like boko haram, or hot war in sudan, or skirmishes in yemen. They can do something huge, if they want tv coversge. otherwise low oil price == guarantee of gas for europe == free hand to poland types.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Jan 2015 12:50

The UKR has reneged on the peace deal as expected.It puts Russia in a real quandary. It at some point in time will have to make a major decision and abandoning the Russian speaking Donetsk Easterners after so much blood has been spilled is going to be a v. difficult pill to swallow. The UKR offensive has come with the blessing and sponsorship of Uncle Sam.The timing is interesting just before O'Bomber visits India.The US is trying v.hard to derail the Indo-Russian strategic ties,which are far stronger than those between India and the US. The next two weeks are going to be v. interesting indeed.

The UKR mil. chief's boast that the UKR will retrieve all lost territory in the Donetsk,etc. is a foreboding of the conflict only getting extended and may eventually bring Russia into direct conflict.

Ukraine troops retake Donetsk airport area with ‘mass operation’

Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko says army’s offensive reclaims much of territory lost to pro-Russian separatists in recent weeks

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... -operation

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 19 Jan 2015 13:30

Fighting restarted by Ukraine on 13th Jan, all across the front. However, the main effort was to recapture Donetsk airport. (There is coverage of this on Russian TV since reporters have been sent there during the ceasefire). After that was repulsed, Ukies pretty much flattened the area with artillery (heavily reinforced) an have also targeted the city itself.

This is the first video of the rebel air force. L-29 aircraft operating from a makeshift airfield.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqYrZuZi30#t=39

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 19 Jan 2015 13:55

https://pp.vk.me/c622721/v622721531/14f ... Um9MFo.jpg

Map of the latest fighting. Its in Russian, but one can broadly see the following happening:

1. Fighting around Donetsk airport - Донецк (blue crosses in circles are Ukie artillery strikes).
2. Ukies shelling Gorlovka - Горловка (North West of Donetsk). This city has one of Europe's biggest chemical
plants - with toxic chemicals.
3. Rebels attempting to cut off the Ukrainian salient East of Gorlovka. They have seized villages on both sides of
the corridor. This may result in the fall of Debaltsevo (the towns inside the salient, with blue circles around it).

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Jan 2015 14:24

Gazprom tells EU no deal on South Stream Restart. EU free to get Russia gas in Turkey. Now it's Gazprom that has no time for EU:

No deal on Ukraine gas discunt
No deal on South Stream restart
Announces it will drop Ukraine as a transit country

http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/01/15/2440

This would have far reaching implications for all the parties

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 19 Jan 2015 15:17

Giving turkey a seat at EU negotation table is an interesting move. In the scheme of things overall, not a big deal. The new game is not MAD anymore. This fight will go into Russia, just a matter of when. Doesnt matter if EU is destroyed, they cant stop this. I am waiting for the georgians and azeris and the like to suddenly find new voices. May be spring, may be sooner.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Jan 2015 18:25

Telly pics of the Donetsk airport reveal it to be a ruin's ruin! What symbolism is to be gained from control over it is anyone's guess as it will take months to repair for flights to resume. The Russians can easily supply the Donetsk Republic by land choosing their entry point of choice.The UKR regime is on a death wish.They are going to suffer more and more casualties in the war and at some point in time,the Kiev and western half of the country will say enough.The EU is in v.deep financial crisis and is unable to bail out the UKR. If Russia turns off the taps,its back to firewood as fuel and a healthy traditional country lifestyle for the UKR!

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 19 Jan 2015 20:10

Shreeman wrote:

This fight will go into Russia, just a matter of when. Doesnt matter if EU is destroyed, they cant stop this. I am waiting for the georgians and azeris and the like to suddenly find new voices. May be spring, may be sooner.

Georgia and Azerbaijan have 2 of their three major pipelines dependent on Russian and Turkish goodwill, but that does not mean that entire region cannot be thrown into turmoil to screw with Russia in the south. If NATO/US manages to bring another color revolution into Georgia/Azerbaijan, then Russia's Gazprom's cockiness may take a beating. But the proximity of both Turkey and Russia to these two states makes it easier for them to take control of that territory even if hostilities are involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku–Tbili ... elines.svg

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 20 Jan 2015 13:30

Strategic mil doctrine : 3 geopol frontlines
http://world.einnews.com/article/245159 ... F0MqC_syWL

The new doctrine, beyond explicitly stating that NATO's expansion was the main external threat facing Moscow, calls for reinforcing three geopolitical fronts that Russia sees as part of its existential security.

In the coming years Russia will focus considerable resources in developing and maintaining a strong military presence in the Arctic, the recently annexed Crimean peninsula, and the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 20 Jan 2015 17:02

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/ukr ... 33500.html

Blast in Kharkiv. Wounds 13 people. 6 in critical condition. Right sector targeted.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Jan 2015 18:05

Poroshenko: Olive branch in one hand and gun firing bullets in Donetsk in the other’

Published time: January 19, 2015

Kiev is playing a duplicitous role in Donbass; it is negotiating peace and at the same time launching a brutal offensive against the civilians of Donetsk and Lugansk, Marcus Papadopoulos, Publisher and Editor of Politics First magazine, told RT.

RT: Less than a day after Kiev launched its assault, Ukraine's Foreign Ministry has called for a renewed effort to implement the Minsk peace agreement. How does that fit?

Marcus Papadopoulos: A lot of ordinary people in the world view politics as a dirty business and the behavior of the Ukrainian government is an excellent example as to why people think along those lines. Because the Ukrainian government has been playing duplicitous role in regard to the situation in Ukraine. On the one hand, Kiev is talking about peace, is talking about the Minsk agreement, is talking about peace in general, but on the other hand it has launched a brutal large offensive against the Donbass, against the people of Donetsk and Lugansk. Ordinary people are now suffering, people are dying, there is no electricity, there is no energy, and there is a shortage of food and water. It is a disgusting form of behavior from the Ukrainian government.

READ MORE: Poroshenko rejected Putin’s artillery withdrawal plan, began assault - Kremlin

When we see Petro Poroshenko talking about peace, all we have to remember that on the one hand,he has an olive branch, but on the other hand, he has a gun because bullets, missiles are being fired now consecutively into Donetsk and it’s ordinary people who are dying. And the Western world is completely oblivious to that.

A private house in Petrovsky District of Donetsk damaged in the result of shelling by Ukrainian army. (RIA Novosti / Igor Maslov)

RT: It is now up to Kiev to pull out the weaponry out of the region. Do you think it is likely to happen? What can we expect in Eastern Ukraine in the nearest future?

MP: Unless the militia in Eastern Ukraine, in Donetsk gives the Ukrainian forces and Ukrainian power military forces a bloody nose, and then I think it is very unlikely for Kiev to pull back its heavy artillery. Petro Poroshenko has made it very clear that he is going to reclaim Donbass by force even if the vast majority of people in Donbass voted overwhelmingly in favor to run their own affairs. Poroshenko has made it very clear that by all means necessary including brutal force he is going to reclaim those areas.

However, the real power lies in Washington and Brussels because Poroshenko is just a puppet. If Washington and Brussels want a solution, if they want peace in Donbass, there will be peace. I don’t agree with commentators when they say that Kiev holds the button. No, it is Washington and it is Brussels who hold the button in regards to a solution in Eastern Ukraine.

RT: The EU's Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Federica Mogherini admits the return of violence in Eastern Ukraine is a turn for the worse. So what role does the EU have in de-escalating the situation in the Donbass region?

MP: The EU can talk about violence not being a good thing, but on the other hand they, and the Americans have given Kiev a blank check to do what it wants in the country and in particular in Eastern Ukraine. The EU played a very important role in bringing down the democratically elected government of Viktor Yanukovich in February 2014. That paved the way for Poroshenko to come to power. The EU needs to stop paying lip service to concepts such as peace and stability and tell their puppet in Kiev, Petro Poroshenko, and the rest of his cabinet, that they must refrain from using violence in the east of the country because it is ordinary people who are dying and quite frankly the people in Kiev, their actions constitute war crimes, and therefore they are war criminals.

The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.

http://rt.com/op-edge/224083-ukraine-co ... bass-kiev/

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Jan 2015 02:31

Vodka shipments begin to arrive

Those 100,000 or whatever UkBapzis in Donetsk airport may not be going home. Anytime.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 21 Jan 2015 05:41

Looks like someone saw real chances of sanctions being lifted gradually in the short term, which of course can't be allowed. What are the chances that another vodka front opens up in Geeorgeea?

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 21 Jan 2015 06:51

the coincidences are a bit too jarring too. When NK says they want a dialogue, you get reports that NK hacked Sony. When France is considering reduction of sanctions and EU mulling, you get more fights from Ukraine end.

Sure, Russia is involved in Ukraine. Even the babes know it. But the larger qn by seeing all this bkground: Is RUSSIA the ONLY external country involved? Its at least their border and NATO expansion and influence in the neighborhood that they are going after unlike the ~~NATO rats which are looking for trouble and destabilization~~ rest who are playing their cards in Ukraine

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 21 Jan 2015 15:09

This is what the Russian foreign office had to say. Lookslike a direct threat of invasion.

“It’s the biggest, even strategic mistake of the Ukrainian authorities to bank on a military solution to the crisis,” Interfax quoted deputy foreign minister Grigory Karasin as saying. “This may lead to irreversible consequences for Ukrainian statehood.”

But IMHO, they dont really need to. The pro Russians are doing well. Putin perhaps only needs to help them a little.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Jan 2015 19:06

If this is true then all hell might break loose in not too far into the future.Someone recently on the td. predicted something like this,good egg!

http://tass.ru/en/world/772425

At least 100 ex-Georgian military servicemen fight alongside Ukrainian troops — official

January 21,

Georgian military servicemen are not paid and they are fighting along with pro-Kiev forces as volunteers, a high-ranking Georgian military official said

Kiev wants to invite NATO experts to train Ukrainians mobilized into army
KIEV, January 21. /TASS/. At least 100 former Georgian servicemen are fighting alongside pro-Kiev forces against self-defense militia in the south-east of Ukraine to regain control over the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR), a high-ranking Georgian military official said on Wednesday.

“Our compatriots are taking active part in special-task detachments of the Ukrainian army,” ex-General Giorgi Kalandadze, former chief of the Joint Staff of Georgian Armed Forces, said on air of Rustavi-2 TV channel speaking from Kiev.

According to Kalandadze, Georgian military servicemen are not paid and they are fighting along with pro-Kiev forces as volunteers. He did not specify which duties Georgian troops performed in the Ukrainian military.

According to the data provided by the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UN OCHA) last month, over 4,700 people were killed and 10,300 wounded since mid-April last year as a result of armed clashes between Ukrainian troops and local militias in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions during Kiev’s military operation to regain control over the breakaway territories

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 21 Jan 2015 20:01

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/20 ... 63876.html

Two top Western diplomats in Kiev said they believed the pro-Russian rebels had made significant progress on the ground in recent days.

The Ukrainian army seems no good. Its a straight fight between pro Russians and Svoboda/Right sector fellows.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 21 Jan 2015 20:08

Putin's biggest weakness maybe his economic policies rather than any of this -- if the war goes on for long, and it looks like its sponsors in the EU/US want it to be that way, then Putin better have some slick economic moves in the coming years to be able pay up for all this activity. Also, his using the EU pipeline card this early means he is going to have not much leverage on EU response in a little bit.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 21 Jan 2015 20:11

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 403_1.html

Book review on this topic.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 21 Jan 2015 20:28

Nice article summing up situation of the Junta.
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukr ... ngth-12073

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 21 Jan 2015 20:34

Seems like US has key leverage in how the war with Russia proceeds -- seems to suggest that the strategy is one of economically bleeding russia over time rather than any quick end to this problem.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 21 Jan 2015 20:43

Perhaps but Ukraine will default long before Russia. The latest assessment is that Ukraine will need additional $20 billion. Total figure is now at $37 billion. And counting. So if West wants to win this war it will have to suffer as much as Russia.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 21 Jan 2015 20:50

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/245927.html

Three Cypriot companies – minority shareholders in public joint-stock company Ukrnafta – have demanded that Ukraine pays $5 billion in compensation for the actions of the Ukrainian government and national joint-stock company Naftogaz Ukrainy.

The companies’ minority shareholders proposed that Ukrainian representatives contact them to settle the dispute in an amicable way, and will wait to hear from them for three months. Otherwise, they plan to file a claim with the international arbitration court, with reference to the conditions of the agreement on Ukraine joining the Energy Community.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 21 Jan 2015 21:06

No prices for guessing which country the majority shareholders of these Cypriot companies belong to...

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 21 Jan 2015 21:15

RSoami wrote:

So if West wants to win this war it will have to suffer as much as Russia.

Seems like the west will fight down to very last ukrainian -- the US note to support the Ukraine govt. explicitly says that it will not financially support ukraine beyond a point. They can always open more fronts against russia instead of bleeding on Ukraine, and that seems to be the plan.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 21 Jan 2015 22:15

I think NW is perhaps putting a better spin on this. They seem better informed. I think every party is sizing up each other to see the extent to which they will go. Both seem weak and a negotiation will happen eventually.

Interestingly, in an alternate move, Putin raised taxes for companies which aren't repatriating profits and assets. So, a few smaller and mid sized companies, a few large companies are bringing back assets into Russia too.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Jan 2015 22:20

Given everything, it looks like Putin is being forced into a swift move: Take over all the region east of the Dnieper, down south to Crimea, and guard the riverfront. If he does it fast in the winter, there is not much anyone can do about it. What more sanctions are they going to impose?

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 21 Jan 2015 22:31

Given everything, it looks like Putin is being forced into a swift move: Take over all the region east of the Dnieper, down south to Crimea, and guard the riverfront.

Totally agree. I have been waiting for him to do this but he seems to have balked.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 22 Jan 2015 01:25

Natalie Jaresko, the yankee minister for Ukraine, has said that Ukraine is going to hold talks with debt holders. So debt restructuring is already on the cards. Also long term support from IMF is sought.
Since she is the economic boss with a leash around yats, it means that the west has thrown in the towel. No more funds for Ukraine than what has already been given.
$50 billion is a lot of money.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/01/2 ... 0320150121

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 22 Jan 2015 02:31

Looks like Ukraine is the new pakistan -- just keep them afloat with IMF and world bank loans so they don't totally collapse but essentially cut off the EU from Russia.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2015 02:48

Agree that the 'Bhesht' is deliberately keeping Russia-EU apart. Their condition for 'relaxing' the sanctions is that Russia should give Crimea back to the UkBapZis to complete the genocide. Obviously this is a condition deliberately set to be unacceptable. So which way does Russia go? Keep the region boiling with the odd poke at the UkBapZis so that they keep shelling their own cities? But I don't see how they can spread this joy, say, to Odessa or Kiev, and without that no learning can be conveyed to the UkBapZis. The alternative is to say the hell with it, draw the whole UkBapZi army east of the Dnieper in winter, and cut off their supply lines - it's as easy as blowing or capturing some 10 bridges across the river. Looks like this is slowly happening: the UkBapZis had to throw massive force to "retake" the ruins of that airport.

I expect to read one din that the bridges across the Dnieper all seem to have glum, balaclava-clad gents standing guard.

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 22 Jan 2015 03:10

Russia seems to have no interest in the part of ukraine across the dneiper -- their best way to save a lot of money is to get to the river. But Putin seems to have no interest in that either for some reason. Just like US is fighting a war in Ukraine for zero cost (IMF and world bank are handing out money from the suckers who have no interest in this fight), Russia would also do well to minimize its cost of defending the its new borders in ukraine.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 22 Jan 2015 05:03

*deleted*