Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 Apr 2013 20:19

CAG on Gujarat: Fact versus fiction

Here’s what the anti-Modi mainstream media won’t tell you: The CAG report notes that Gujarat’s revenue generation has shot up by a whopping 102 per cent in 2011-2012 as compared to 2007-2008. Similarly, its tax revenue has shot up by 22 per cent as compared to the previous year. The targets set for the State by the 13th Finance Commission have also been achieved by the Government. As opposed to the target of keeping fiscal deficit at three per cent of Gross State Domestic Product (GSDP), Gujarat has maintained it at 1.87 per cent. If this does not reflect fiscal prudence, then what does?

The CAG report also lauds the land allotment policy of the State Government. Sadly, what is happening is that vested interests are at play in maligning the image of Gujarat and thereby seeking to tarnish Modi’s image, which is nothing new anymore.

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/04/04/c ... 61982.html

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 20:22

Struggling with Optimism

This is the butler english Pappu learned in Kambridge?

Joe the plumber = Dileep the Carpenter

I think the whole world got it wrong. INC is India's republican party. They are the one who defined "INDIA", not the Hindu natives.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 20:25

Sushupti wrote:CAG on Gujarat: Fact versus fiction

Here’s what the anti-Modi mainstream media won’t tell you: The CAG report notes that Gujarat’s revenue generation has shot up by a whopping 102 per cent in 2011-2012 as compared to 2007-2008. Similarly, its tax revenue has shot up by 22 per cent as compared to the previous year. The targets set for the State by the 13th Finance Commission have also been achieved by the Government. As opposed to the target of keeping fiscal deficit at three per cent of Gross State Domestic Product (GSDP), Gujarat has maintained it at 1.87 per cent. If this does not reflect fiscal prudence, then what does?

The CAG report also lauds the land allotment policy of the State Government. Sadly, what is happening is that vested interests are at play in maligning the image of Gujarat and thereby seeking to tarnish Modi’s image, which is nothing new anymore.

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/04/04/c ... 61982.html

Didn't hear this? The Congress CM of Andhera Pradesh questioned "is CAG report a Quran/Bible/BhagavatGita"?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 04 Apr 2013 20:44

00:15:40
"We dont have boats Baba ji" quip by a woman supposedly made to Raul Baba when he dropped a quote of JFK's "boats rising with tide" analogy in front of them.

00:17:50
Raul Baba :Let me go back to the women a lil.... for a bit..
....
give me just a sec (shuffles through his papers then seems to have found something)

(Again starts) .. Let me go back to the women.. They told me they have no boats.... (seems to have got the wrong one, so again shuffles through his papers..looking down)
Ive lost it now .. one sec.. (

)
OK (Now seems to have again found something)

They told me they had no boats.... (this time seems to have found the correct page .. so now picks it up and begins to read out from the page)...

The work our women do .. the work millions of our women undertake.. the monotonous sleep inducing readout from the pages continues..zzzz...zz

Verdict: Raul Baba's "coming out party" is basically his reading out while shuffling and bumbling through a bunch of papers on matters he obviously has no grip on and was therefore penned by some one for this occasion.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 20:45

I liked Pappu's answer on the relation between Village, state and Center relations. It explains the strength of INC.

Perhaps this is what S.TN structure is about.

Theoji... Can you pls view the video ~30:00 min and give more details?

Ramanaji - Check it out and pls comment

BTW - Why is this speech and interaction on RSTV (Rajya Sabha TV)?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 Apr 2013 20:46

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 20:53

Key takeaway from Pappu's speech (at least for me)

1/ There are three planes of indian society - Poor, Middleclass and Industry/Rich. Rich manage the show, Middle-class pays the taxes but it is poor that votes. INC's strategy is to connect Rich with Poor and probably make them middle-class, so INC will have its own committed middle-class.

2/ Relations between Center, State and Local bodies (Panchayats) - INC as a central party is connecting to Panchayats with its policies and plans. This is the way to eliminate state noise. This is also the way to empower center.

3/ Industry's involvement - Probably asking industry to engage in education policy so the poor can be employed. Looks like this is the new JNU-lobby ploy. Now that people are brainwashed with fake-history and fake-identity; let us make them productive laborers working for the super rich.

This is the beehive.

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 04 Apr 2013 20:56

My GOD! what is so great about mr. G's speech? no vision no plans has been told yet all media is praising him....

still dont understand why... money? power? or what?

if Cong looses and Modi comes has the same media can survives after basing him?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 04 Apr 2013 20:58

The beehive is comprised of the queen bee and her drones much like the Congress. Modi is the honey badger.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 21:17

Is Pappu suggesting a presidential mode of election in India? Check his answer ~32:00min...

Pappu is explaining that hardly 50-100 people in INC are the real decision makers, because they are the ones who determine MP/MLA tickets and that is the root of corruption. Is he willing to go away with that model and move on to primaries model?

If he can do that, it will be good for INC and India.

Vipin_Upadhyay · Post by **Vipin_Upadhyay** » 04 Apr 2013 21:28

by now it should be crystal clear to all those naive urban "cool" Indians following English TV channels that Rahul is a hype created by Padmashree awardee media elites.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 21:40

To be fair, I liked his answers in Q&A session. His speech is a dud, but answers to questions gives insight into his world-view.

He needs to be trained and made believe in Indic identity, world-view, interests and society.

He says India has the capability not only take all Indians along but entire world. I loved his point that the "Idea of India" is NOTwhat we hear in "Idea of USA". It is what told by Gandhi/Buddha (he need to go a little back, but it is ok) as in Bhagavad Gita.

Impressive! He is much better than p/secular dhimmi RNIs. Probably that is what scares the hell out of Congress-system.

Good luck to him.

P.S: There is a high probability that Doggyraja is Indu Sharma in Magadha.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 04 Apr 2013 21:46

Really RamaY ji, I think it is the stock answer that he is giving. The lack of thinking and verity in his answer forces me to not even offer that he answered like Kalidasa
when he met Vidyotama the first time (even if Kalidas was murkh at that time, he was original with his answers). He has been giving the same answer, to all the questions. Please read on above how my prodigal nephew at two answered many math questions with ease.
rgds,
fanne

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 04 Apr 2013 21:50

anmol wrote:

The sad thing is the abuse of authority by ITALIAN CON MAFIA is frightening. They have to prosecuted and put in jail for 100 years.

The funny aspect is a lot of people even on this forum such as Theo keep expressing doubts/concerns about Modi but none of these people don't even open their mouth at the destruction of institutions and gross abuse of their authority.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 04 Apr 2013 21:58

ramana wrote:Chandragupta, Good effort. Hope it convinces the person.

BTW, the Teesta Setalvad womb ripping story is an Ismalist meme from ealry days of Muhaamed and his mauruders.

I will get you the link.
My contention is that lie is included to evoke memories of early Islam and make all the folks nod their heads in unison that such brutality is possible.

I also would like a similar comprhesive effort on the Jaffery incident.
- His background
- How many were killed at his house
- Did he shelter the train burners?

Ramana do you have te link or copy of the original story by A.Roy in outlook and Balbir Punj's response. And then A.Roy's apology letter to Outlookindia - something along the lines that one gets info from friends/validated sources and sometimes it is wrong or some such.
I wish I had kept those.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 04 Apr 2013 21:58

RamaY wrote:He says India has the capability not only take all Indians along but entire world. I loved his point that the "Idea of India" is NOTwhat we hear in "Idea of USA". It is what told by Gandhi/Buddha (he need to go a little back, but it is ok) as in Bhagavad Gita.

Impressive! He is much better than p/secular dhimmi RNIs. Probably that is what scares the hell out of Congress-system.

RamaY,
I havent heard the speech yet. However, did Rahul Baba make the Bhagvad Gita reference?
Additionally, whom are you saying that Congress-system is scared of?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 22:01

ManjaM wrote: RamaY,
I havent heard the speech yet. However, did Rahul Baba make the Bhagvad Gita reference?
Additionally, whom are you saying that Congress-system is scared of?

Yes he did (I typed that post while listening to him).

He clearly mentioned that Idea of India is not something like Idea of USA; it is much much bigger. It (the Idea of India) is what told to us by Gandhi, Buddha and Bhagavat Gita. It has the power to not only take the 200 million muslims along but the entire world along with us.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 04 Apr 2013 22:08

Sushupti wrote:
What's the guarantee that non-politicians will not be corrupt?

No there is no guarantee about it but politicians appointing monitoring bodies that look in to their misdeeds is conflict of interest. I want complete departure from the fixing-culture of C-system and I was hoping it will start with NM.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 04 Apr 2013 22:08

RamaY wrote:
ManjaM wrote: RamaY,
I havent heard the speech yet. However, did Rahul Baba make the Bhagvad Gita reference?
Additionally, whom are you saying that Congress-system is scared of?
Yes he did (I typed that post while listening to him). He clearly mentioned that Idea of India is not something like Idea of USA; it is much much bigger. It (the Idea of India) is what told to us by Gandhi, Buddha and Bhagavat Gita. It has the power to not only take the 200 million muslims along but the entire world along with us.

Shivane Shambulinga. What has the world come to. Next thing will be Rahul Baba placing online order for Khakhi knicker, white shirt and Topi.
1. Modi has managed to force Rahul Baba to bat on Modis wicket.
2. Expect counterbalancing of Bhagvad gita reference through words and action.

AFAIR this is the first time he has made a BG reference, isnt it? If Congress makes a right turn, lots of career Fiberals, leftists, NGOs are going to be no ghar ka na ghat ka. Fun times.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 04 Apr 2013 22:09

anmol wrote:^ That, BTW don't politicians appoint the judiciary ?

IIRC, there is a collegium system to appoint judges.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 22:16

People laughed when I said I will vote for Congress if they build Ram temple and capture PoK.

RG and congress are at least few million light years away from that, but they started the journey in the right direction.

This is all because of Hindu self-assertion.

I wonder if Rahul Gandhi do what LKA did in 2009 elections.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 04 Apr 2013 22:20

ManjaM wrote:AFAIR this is the first time he has made a BG reference, isnt it? If Congress makes a right turn, lots of career Fiberals, leftists, NGOs are going to be no ghar ka na ghat ka. Fun times.

One solitary reference to Gita, and you guys actually think the Dynasty is taking a right turn !!

The 'Hindutva right' seems quite easy to please !

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 04 Apr 2013 22:22

SwamyG wrote: Actually it is bad, India will be held hostage by two parties - or two individuals. Regional parties will push and pull policies of the so-called National parties. National parties should widen their base in the regions. Why are they not able to do so? An idea can be beaten by better ideas, so if the regional parties are dishing out bad ideas, then it forces National parties to come up with better ideas and policies. Selecting policies and a set of ideas - called the system/party is what ultimately matters to any country.

Actually except TN and AP no other major state has regional parties. Parties like SP, BSP, TMC, JDU, etc are all technically national parties although they may have only regional existence. A more predictable political system leads to more efficient economic and governance activity. Most advanced countries have predictable political systems. However, given the diversity of India there will be some regional political aspirations. The best bet for India is to have a center-left alliance led by INC and a center-right alliance led by BJP. The turd front and Communists should be history once India matures.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 04 Apr 2013 22:23

Where did I say they have turned hindutvavadi/right? I doubt the congress animal will change its stripes actually.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 04 Apr 2013 22:25

UDAY MAHURKAR NEW DELHI, APRIL 4, 2013 | UPDATED 22:06 IST

Amit Shah, the grand strategist

Some people are known more for their alleged acts of omission and commission rather than their splendid success, thanks to the media. If there is one such person in Indian politics today, it is Amit Shah, 50, the newly-appointed national BJP general secretary and Narendra Modi loyalist, who is known for his sharp poll-related strategic skills and also for being a key accused in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case.

Very few people know that if terror attacks in India are under check today, Shah's role in solving the 2008 Ahmedabad bomb blasts by Indian Mujahideen terrorists as Gujarat Minister of State for Home is one of the main factors responsible for it. Gujarat Police officials, who probed the terror attack that left 56 people dead and 200 injured, openly admit even today that it was Shah's intelligence and diligence and Modi's unstinted guidance that enabled them in solving that case in 21 days flat, a record of sorts when compared with the murky record of Indian police in probing terror cases. The solving of that crucial case immediately brought down the frequency of IM attacks since its flanks stood exposed. No wonder then that Shah could be in the Home Ministry at the Centre If Modi becomes PM in 2014.

On the flip side, however, Shah's strategic skills are often viewed in the realm of intrigue by his adversaries in the political arena as well as Gujarat Police. His critics, who are by no means in small numbers, allege that Shah encouraged a culture of factionalism and vengefulness in the force because of his obsession with keeping total control over the force and for his political objectives. In the end, he found himself trapped by it when he was arrested in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case. Shah left his flanks exposed before a politically vengeful CBI which wanted to fix him by hook or crook. Shah, of course, claims that he was the victim of a conspiracy hatched by some police officials in collusion with the Congress which was targeting Shah and through him Narendra Modi. The evidence marshalled by the CBI to fix Shah in the case is not only thin but also questionable.

The scion of a business family of Mansa near Gandhinagar, Shah began his career in the RSS and soon caught the fancy of Narendra Modi for his intelligence and vision, which is not easily found in the highly regimented RSS. The images of two greatest Hindu icons, Chanakya and Adi Sankara, adorn his private office chamber. In the battle between Keshubhai Patel and Narendra Modi, which began in the late 1990s, Shah stood by the latter which ultimately paved his way for him to become the Minister of State for Home when Modi became chief minister for the second time in December 2002. Shah's skill in political strategy and vision are almost legendary. The way he evaluates Modi's 12-year rule in Gujarat in economic terms is better than a good economist. Says a party leader, "The way he brought the entire cooperative sector of Gujarat from Congress to BJP's fold is a tribute to his result-oriented strategy-making skills."

One unmistakable trait about Shah is that despite his personal loyalty to Modi, he is seen as more of an RSS man for his strong commitment to Hindutva ideals. As Minister of State for Home, Shah took a strong stand against the activities of the radical ultra Wahhabi Muslims and kept them under check while being very flexible with moderate Muslim sections. It was at his behest that Gujarat's Deobandi Madrasas stopped admitting Kashmiri students after some of them were found to have taken to terrorism upon returning to Kashmir after their studies. However, Shah has one big flaw that has hindered his rise and could do so in future: He has a habit of remaining incommunicado for long periods. This, in turn, keeps him disconnected at crucial times and ends up inflaming even his friends.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/amit ... 60593.html

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 04 Apr 2013 22:25

UDAY MAHURKAR NEW DELHI, APRIL 4, 2013 | UPDATED 22:06 IST

Amit Shah, the grand strategist

Some people are known more for their alleged acts of omission and commission rather than their splendid success, thanks to the media. If there is one such person in Indian politics today, it is Amit Shah, 50, the newly-appointed national BJP general secretary and Narendra Modi loyalist, who is known for his sharp poll-related strategic skills and also for being a key accused in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case.

Very few people know that if terror attacks in India are under check today, Shah's role in solving the 2008 Ahmedabad bomb blasts by Indian Mujahideen terrorists as Gujarat Minister of State for Home is one of the main factors responsible for it. Gujarat Police officials, who probed the terror attack that left 56 people dead and 200 injured, openly admit even today that it was Shah's intelligence and diligence and Modi's unstinted guidance that enabled them in solving that case in 21 days flat, a record of sorts when compared with the murky record of Indian police in probing terror cases. The solving of that crucial case immediately brought down the frequency of IM attacks since its flanks stood exposed. No wonder then that Shah could be in the Home Ministry at the Centre If Modi becomes PM in 2014.

On the flip side, however, Shah's strategic skills are often viewed in the realm of intrigue by his adversaries in the political arena as well as Gujarat Police. His critics, who are by no means in small numbers, allege that Shah encouraged a culture of factionalism and vengefulness in the force because of his obsession with keeping total control over the force and for his political objectives. In the end, he found himself trapped by it when he was arrested in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case. Shah left his flanks exposed before a politically vengeful CBI which wanted to fix him by hook or crook. Shah, of course, claims that he was the victim of a conspiracy hatched by some police officials in collusion with the Congress which was targeting Shah and through him Narendra Modi. The evidence marshalled by the CBI to fix Shah in the case is not only thin but also questionable.

The scion of a business family of Mansa near Gandhinagar, Shah began his career in the RSS and soon caught the fancy of Narendra Modi for his intelligence and vision, which is not easily found in the highly regimented RSS. The images of two greatest Hindu icons, Chanakya and Adi Sankara, adorn his private office chamber. In the battle between Keshubhai Patel and Narendra Modi, which began in the late 1990s, Shah stood by the latter which ultimately paved his way for him to become the Minister of State for Home when Modi became chief minister for the second time in December 2002. Shah's skill in political strategy and vision are almost legendary. The way he evaluates Modi's 12-year rule in Gujarat in economic terms is better than a good economist. Says a party leader, "The way he brought the entire cooperative sector of Gujarat from Congress to BJP's fold is a tribute to his result-oriented strategy-making skills."

One unmistakable trait about Shah is that despite his personal loyalty to Modi, he is seen as more of an RSS man for his strong commitment to Hindutva ideals. As Minister of State for Home, Shah took a strong stand against the activities of the radical ultra Wahhabi Muslims and kept them under check while being very flexible with moderate Muslim sections. It was at his behest that Gujarat's Deobandi Madrasas stopped admitting Kashmiri students after some of them were found to have taken to terrorism upon returning to Kashmir after their studies. However, Shah has one big flaw that has hindered his rise and could do so in future: He has a habit of remaining incommunicado for long periods. This, in turn, keeps him disconnected at crucial times and ends up inflaming even his friends.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/amit ... 60593.html

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 Apr 2013 22:26

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 04 Apr 2013 22:27

fanne wrote:Pappu's answer remind me of a real life incident. It was few years ago, I had a distant nephew, then 2 years old. I had gone to see his family. Anyway, the dad of the kid (dad is my age), called my 2 year nephew and said to me that this kid is prodigy. At this age he can answer very complex questions. I was intrigued and asked for a demonstration. My co-brother then asked his son, what is 1 +1, promptly the two year nephew said, tu (two). I was impressed. But then I thought, gosh these parents are really pushing there kids to learn so early, maybe he learned basic maths. Then the next question was how much is 5-3, promptly the answer came 2. I said to myself now subtraction is hard, this kid is something, maybe his parents are not wrong in pushing him. Next question was what is 1008-1006, that also the kid answered right 2. Next question was what is 1 squared + 1 squared, that also was answered right, 2, even the next one 2 squared minus 2, which is 2. It went further on into calculus as well, he always gave the right answer of 2.

Now that reminds me of Rahul baba - How do you solve the water problem in India, or malnutrition, or pollution or low economic growth or high pollution growth or corruption - Answer India is a complex country, don't expect govt to solve it, you should do your bit/ (or the second answer where he would have called someone on stage and demoed how China and India solve problems.

I wonder if the question was Rahul baba when you are having kids, what his answer would be?
rgds,
fanne

I am reminded of an old Telugu movie(of Rajendra Prasad, Aa okati addakku). Here is a scene:

A dumb sucker: I want to buy something magnificent that will startle our entire village...
Hero: Why?
A dumb sucker: Earlier I was the only with TV in my village and I was the most popular one for that. Now, another one(my competitor) has bought something that can play any movie any time.
Hero: It must be DVD player...
A dumb sucker: I don't know what it is, but I want to buy something that is more fantastic than that, so that I become the most popular one in my village again.
Hero: hmm... If I had known this, then I would not have sold that DVD player to your competitor...
A dumb sucker: What? You sold it to him. Please, please, sell something wonderful to me also...
Hero: Alright, but what should I sell you? I already sold Taj Mahal last week. I sold Kutub Minar last month. You are too late...
A dumb sucker: Oh, please, don't say that, I have 50,000 Rs, I want to buy something maginificent.
Hero: 50,000 Rs! For 50,000 Rs, what can you get? I have a talking goat, but you can't get it for 50,000 Rs.
A dumb sucker: A talking goat?!

Unbelievable...
Hero: I have that goat right here.
A dumb sucker: Then, please make it talk, I want to see...
Hero: No.
A dumb sucker: I will buy that goat.
Hero: You can't have it for 50,000 Rs.
A dumb sucker: Alright, I lied, I actually have 1 lakh with me, in cash right now. Please take it and give me that goat. But, before that make it talk, please, please, please....
Hero: Okkk. Since, you are requesting so much, I'll give you one demonstration.
Hero(addressing the goat): O goat, what is the month after April?
Hero pinches the ear of the goat. The goat says maay...
A dumb sucker: WOW! This goat can really talk. Please give it to me.
Hero: Alright, give me cash first.
A dumb sucker: Ok. On second thought, please show me one more demonstration. Please...
Hero: What?! I am already selling this precious goat cheaply, you want one more demonstration. I won't sell it to you and I won't show you any demonstration either.
A dumb sucker: Oh, please don't get angry. I am village rustic. Please forgive me, for doubting you, but if you show just one more demonstration that will satisfy me completely. Please...
Hero: Fine. Just one more.
A dumb sucker: Thanks.
Hero(addressing the goat): O goat, what is the month before June?
Hero pinches the ear of the goat. The goat say maay...
A dumb sucker: Lovely! Heres the cash.
Hero: Here's the goat.

Goat == Raul
Dumb sucker == aam aadmi
Hero == whoever wrote the script for Raul's play acting on stage. And the MSM.

----

Chandragupta wrote:
I hope to first convert her & then scare her into voting. Let's see how it works. Typical DU studied, MBA types, high flying yuppie with a large yuppy group. Like a wolf, I'm eyeing her entire yuppy group for conversion.

All the best.

Link to previous post of RajeshA saar, might be useful to you.
----

ramana wrote:Chandragupta, Good effort. Hope it convinces the person.

BTW, the Teesta Setalvad womb ripping story is an Ismalist meme from ealry days of Muhaamed and his mauruders.

I will get you the link.
My contention is that lie is included to evoke memories of early Islam and make all the folks nod their heads in unison that such brutality is possible.

I also would like a similar comprhesive effort on the Jaffery incident.
- His background
- How many were killed at his house
- Did he shelter the train burners?

Ramana garu,
great pointer. Indeed this 'ripping the womb' open seems to be a meme. A cursory google search led me to:

a book(in google books) named The History of Afghanistan (6 vol. set). It is a translation of Fayz Muhammad Katib Hazhrah's book Siraj Al-Tawarikh. It was translated and edited by Robert McChesney and Mohammad Mehdi Khorrami.

wiki on Siraj Al-Tawarikh

Siraj al-Tawarikh is a book on the 18th and 19th century Afghan History by Faiz Mohammad Katib Hazara.[2] The author was a historian in Emir's court. The book has three editions, two published and one unpublished.[3]

wiki on Fayz Muhammad Katib Hazrah:

Name: Faiz Mohammad Katib Hazara
Born: 1862-63 Ghazni, Afghanistan
Died: March 3, 1931. Kabul, Afghanistan
Resting place: Afghanistan
Occupation: Historian, Intellectual, Calligrapher, Afghan court chronicler and secretary to the amir Habib Ullah Khan
Language: Dari, Arabic, English, and Urdu
Nationality: Afghanistan
Ethnicity: Hazara
Citizenship: Afghanistan

So, what is there in that book about ripping open the wombs?

Page 52-53.
Link to Google book

This meme, it seems is present in Bible as well.

Gods Punishment in the Bible: Pregnant Women will be ripped open!

By
Karim
(He is a new convert to Islam, from the Netherlands)

Hosea 13:16 (New Living Translation) - The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords."

Hosea 13:16 (King James) Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God.
They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

Below John Calvin’s (1509-1564 ) classical bible commentary,
Calvin’s Commentaries (Hosea 13:16) http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_index.htm :

This is the conclusion of the discourse: this verse has then been improperly separated from the former chapter 1; for the Prophet enters not here on a new subject, but only confirms what he had said of the ultimate destruction of Samaria and of the whole kingdom. Samaria then shall be desolated; as though he said "I have already often denounced on you what you believe not, that destruction is nigh at hand; of this be now persuaded; but if you believe not, God will yet execute what he has determined, and what he now pronounces by my mouth." At the same time he adds the cause, For they have provoked their God. That they might not complain that they were severely dealt with, he says, that they only suffered the punishment which they deserved. He also specifies the kind of destruction that was to be, They shall fall by the sword, their children shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women squall be torn asunder, that the child may be extracted from the womb. In saying that the citizens of Samaria, and the inhabitants of the whole country, shall fall by the sword, he doubtless intimates that God would make use of this kind of punishment by sending for enemies who would consign them to destruction.

We now then see what is included in the words of the Prophet. He first shows that it was all over with Samaria and the whole kingdom of Israel; as God could by no means bring them to repentance, he would now take vengeance on so desperate an obstinacy. He afterwards shows that God would do this justly, because he had been provoked; and, lastly, he shows what kind their punishment would be. That they might not think that the Assyrians would come by chance, the Prophet says that this army, which was to invade and destroy the country of Samaria, would be, as it were, conducted by the hand of God; for though the Assyrians wished to extend their own borders, and were influenced by their own avarice and cupidity, yet God would use them as instruments to execute his own judgement; and that they might know how dreadful the vengeance would be, he relates two kinds of evils, -- that their children would be dashed in pieces, and that their women would be rent asunder, and their offspring extracted from their wombs. Even to speak of this is horrible; and it is what never takes place, except when enemies are greatly enraged and extremely provoked. We now then comprehend the meaning of the Prophet.

But if any one objects and says, that infants, and babes as yet concealed in the wombs of their mothers, deserve not such a grievous punishment, as they have not hitherto merited such a thing; it may be answered, that the whole human race are guilty before God, so that infants though not yet come forth to the light, are yet included as being under guilt; so that God cannot be charged with cruelty, though he may use his own right towards them. And further, we hear what he declares in many places, that he will devolve the sins of parents on their children. Since it is so, let us learn to acquiesce in these awful judgements of God, though very repugnant to our feelings; for we know that we must not contend with God, and that it would be extreme presumption to do so; nay, it would be impious audacity. Though then the reason for this punishment may not appear to us, we ought yet reverently to regard this judgement of God.

Source: http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/c ... /xx.xi.htm

These electronic texts of Calvin's Commentaries were prepared through the labor of volunteers for the OnLine Bible project and the Christian Classics Ethereal Library in conjunction with the good folks at Ages Software.

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Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 Apr 2013 22:41

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 Apr 2013 22:51

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 Apr 2013 23:01

Supratik wrote:
SwamyG wrote: Actually it is bad, India will be held hostage by two parties - or two individuals. Regional parties will push and pull policies of the so-called National parties. National parties should widen their base in the regions. Why are they not able to do so? An idea can be beaten by better ideas, so if the regional parties are dishing out bad ideas, then it forces National parties to come up with better ideas and policies. Selecting policies and a set of ideas - called the system/party is what ultimately matters to any country.

Actually except TN and AP no other major state has regional parties. Parties like SP, BSP, TMC, JDU, etc are all technically national parties although they may have only regional existence. A more predictable political system leads to more efficient economic and governance activity. Most advanced countries have predictable political systems. However, given the diversity of India there will be some regional political aspirations. The best bet for India is to have a center-left alliance led by INC and a center-right alliance led by BJP. The turd front and Communists should be history once India matures.

It is sad for India to see itself as Left, Center and Right. And in the most advanced countries have problems with their political parties too. For example, in America issues are hijacked just like anywhere else on the planet, and people still vote on emotions. Technology, information, modernity, ityadi make no difference. Fortunately, the system at grass roots has been strengthened and the jobs get done. Both BJP and INC woo America as their best friend - no difference. Both parties have Hindutva/strong Hindutva support - no difference.

Third front, or other parties is what will help lend a balance in politics. Maturity or advancement is not just having a Presidential form of government (or election) like America, or having just two parties doing all the business. Also a country cannot have 20-30 parties causing major grid-lock. It does not matter if one goes based on technical definitions, what is important is the influence of these parties.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 23:25

gakakkad wrote: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... edabad.jpg

http://www.vandeindia.com/wp-content/up ... /BRTS3.jpg

Guj is in safe hands...

Theo_Fidel wrote:G,

Those pictures of Guj warm my heart. That is exactly what I'm talking about. Good design with density not endless car parks. It is good that BRTS systems are being put in right from the beginning. That way majority of traffic can be kept off cars. Delhi has trouble retrofitting BRTS.

Do you know what is being done for old Ahmedabad areas like the Gandhi road area?

Theoji must convince S.TN-vasis to vote for NM. Two BJPs from S.TN, please

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 04 Apr 2013 23:28

RoyG wrote:
UDAY MAHURKAR NEW DELHI, APRIL 4, 2013 | UPDATED 22:06 IST

Amit Shah, the grand strategist

Some people are known more for their alleged acts of omission and commission rather than their splendid success, thanks to the media. If there is one such person in Indian politics today, it is Amit Shah, 50, the newly-appointed national BJP general secretary and Narendra Modi loyalist, who is known for his sharp poll-related strategic skills and also for being a key accused in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case.

Very few people know that if terror attacks in India are under check today, Shah's role in solving the 2008 Ahmedabad bomb blasts by Indian Mujahideen terrorists as Gujarat Minister of State for Home is one of the main factors responsible for it. Gujarat Police officials, who probed the terror attack that left 56 people dead and 200 injured, openly admit even today that it was Shah's intelligence and diligence and Modi's unstinted guidance that enabled them in solving that case in 21 days flat, a record of sorts when compared with the murky record of Indian police in probing terror cases. The solving of that crucial case immediately brought down the frequency of IM attacks since its flanks stood exposed. No wonder then that Shah could be in the Home Ministry at the Centre If Modi becomes PM in 2014.

On the flip side, however, Shah's strategic skills are often viewed in the realm of intrigue by his adversaries in the political arena as well as Gujarat Police. His critics, who are by no means in small numbers, allege that Shah encouraged a culture of factionalism and vengefulness in the force because of his obsession with keeping total control over the force and for his political objectives. In the end, he found himself trapped by it when he was arrested in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case. Shah left his flanks exposed before a politically vengeful CBI which wanted to fix him by hook or crook. Shah, of course, claims that he was the victim of a conspiracy hatched by some police officials in collusion with the Congress which was targeting Shah and through him Narendra Modi. The evidence marshalled by the CBI to fix Shah in the case is not only thin but also questionable.

The scion of a business family of Mansa near Gandhinagar, Shah began his career in the RSS and soon caught the fancy of Narendra Modi for his intelligence and vision, which is not easily found in the highly regimented RSS. The images of two greatest Hindu icons, Chanakya and Adi Sankara, adorn his private office chamber. In the battle between Keshubhai Patel and Narendra Modi, which began in the late 1990s, Shah stood by the latter which ultimately paved his way for him to become the Minister of State for Home when Modi became chief minister for the second time in December 2002. Shah's skill in political strategy and vision are almost legendary. The way he evaluates Modi's 12-year rule in Gujarat in economic terms is better than a good economist. Says a party leader, "The way he brought the entire cooperative sector of Gujarat from Congress to BJP's fold is a tribute to his result-oriented strategy-making skills."

One unmistakable trait about Shah is that despite his personal loyalty to Modi, he is seen as more of an RSS man for his strong commitment to Hindutva ideals. As Minister of State for Home, Shah took a strong stand against the activities of the radical ultra Wahhabi Muslims and kept them under check while being very flexible with moderate Muslim sections. It was at his behest that Gujarat's Deobandi Madrasas stopped admitting Kashmiri students after some of them were found to have taken to terrorism upon returning to Kashmir after their studies. However, Shah has one big flaw that has hindered his rise and could do so in future: He has a habit of remaining incommunicado for long periods. This, in turn, keeps him disconnected at crucial times and ends up inflaming even his friends.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/amit ... 60593.html

Very few people know that if terror attacks in India are under check today, Shah's role in solving the 2008 Ahmedabad bomb blasts by Indian Mujahideen terrorists as Gujarat Minister of State for Home is one of the main factors responsible for it. Gujarat Police officials, who probed the terror attack that left 56 people dead and 200 injured, openly admit even today that it was Shah's intelligence and diligence and Modi's unstinted guidance that enabled them in solving that case in 21 days flat, a record of sorts when compared with the murky record of Indian police in probing terror cases. The solving of that crucial case immediately brought down the frequency of IM attacks since its flanks stood exposed. No wonder then that Shah could be in the Home Ministry at the Centre If Modi becomes PM in 2014.

On the flip side, however, Shah's strategic skills are often viewed in the realm of intrigue by his adversaries in the political arena as well as Gujarat Police. His critics, who are by no means in small numbers, allege that Shah encouraged a culture of factionalism and vengefulness in the force because of his obsession with keeping total control over the force and for his political objectives. In the end, he found himself trapped by it when he was arrested in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case. Shah left his flanks exposed before a politically vengeful CBI which wanted to fix him by hook or crook. Shah, of course, claims that he was the victim of a conspiracy hatched by some police officials in collusion with the Congress which was targeting Shah and through him Narendra Modi. The evidence marshalled by the CBI to fix Shah in the case is not only thin but also questionable.

l

I think we need to investigate theses abuse of power, prosecute the ITALIAN scumbags, their cohorts to the full extent of the law.

I am sure there was a conspiracy at the top leadership on Malegaon blasts.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Apr 2013 23:33

OT,

RamaY wrote:He says India has the capability not only take all Indians along but entire world. I loved his point that the "Idea of India" is NOTwhat we hear in "Idea of USA". It is what told by Gandhi/Buddha (he need to go a little back, but it is ok) as in Bhagavad Gita.

Gandhi and Buddha are acceptable in the Macaulayite frame, and in fact the West has tried to digest both. Mahabharata/Bhagavad Gita are totally different things altogether and cannot be digested.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Apr 2013 23:35

^ Agree. That is why I put that note in parenthesis.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 04 Apr 2013 23:40

SwamyG wrote:
Third front, or other parties is what will help lend a balance in politics. Maturity or advancement is not just having a Presidential form of government (or election) like America, or having just two parties doing all the business. Also a country cannot have 20-30 parties causing major grid-lock. It does not matter if one goes based on technical definitions, what is important is the influence of these parties.

What is it that a turd front will bring in and what has been its record in the past as compared to INC or BJP? Two party or in the case of India two alliances will bring predictability in the system. What harm has the predictable two party system done to USA? Economically and even politically what is there except left and right.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 Apr 2013 23:41

SwamyG wrote: Actually it is bad, India will be held hostage by two parties - or two individuals. Regional parties will push and pull policies of the so-called National parties. National parties should widen their base in the regions. Why are they not able to do so? An idea can be beaten by better ideas, so if the regional parties are dishing out bad ideas, then it forces National parties to come up with better ideas and policies. Selecting policies and a set of ideas - called the system/party is what ultimately matters to any country.

as long as this trend continues....I am predicting a consolidation of all parties into one or other camp and eventually we may get into a two party system...and even with its inherent problems, I am of the opinion it is better for the nation, all things considered.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 Apr 2013 23:44

'battle of ideas' happen only when there are no 'entry barriers'. that's not the case in many states, prime example being TN.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Apr 2013 23:46

The wind is turning if India Today starts publishing these type of articles:

Some people are known more for their alleged acts of omission and commission rather than their splendid success, thanks to the media. If there is one such person in Indian politics today, it is Amit Shah, 50, the newly-appointed national BJP general secretary and Narendra Modi loyalist, who is known for his sharp poll-related strategic skills and also for being a key accused in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case.

Very few people know that if terror attacks in India are under check today, Shah's role in solving the 2008 Ahmedabad bomb blasts by Indian Mujahideen terrorists as Gujarat Minister of State for Home is one of the main factors responsible for it. Gujarat Police officials, who probed the terror attack that left 56 people dead and 200 injured, openly admit even today that it was Shah's intelligence and diligence and Modi's unstinted guidance that enabled them in solving that case in 21 days flat, a record of sorts when compared with the murky record of Indian police in probing terror cases. The solving of that crucial case immediately brought down the frequency of IM attacks since its flanks stood exposed. No wonder then that Shah could be in the Home Ministry at the Centre If Modi becomes PM in 2014.

On the flip side, however, Shah's strategic skills are often viewed in the realm of intrigue by his adversaries in the political arena as well as Gujarat Police. His critics, who are by no means in small numbers, allege that Shah encouraged a culture of factionalism and vengefulness in the force because of his obsession with keeping total control over the force and for his political objectives. In the end, he found himself trapped by it when he was arrested in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case. Shah left his flanks exposed before a politically vengeful CBI which wanted to fix him by hook or crook. Shah, of course, claims that he was the victim of a conspiracy hatched by some police officials in collusion with the Congress which was targeting Shah and through him Narendra Modi. The evidence marshalled by the CBI to fix Shah in the case is not only thin but also questionable.

The scion of a business family of Mansa near Gandhinagar, Shah began his career in the RSS and soon caught the fancy of Narendra Modi for his intelligence and vision, which is not easily found in the highly regimented RSS. The images of two greatest Hindu icons, Chanakya and Adi Sankara, adorn his private office chamber. In the battle between Keshubhai Patel and Narendra Modi, which began in the late 1990s, Shah stood by the latter which ultimately paved his way for him to become the Minister of State for Home when Modi became chief minister for the second time in December 2002. Shah's skill in political strategy and vision are almost legendary. The way he evaluates Modi's 12-year rule in Gujarat in economic terms is better than a good economist. Says a party leader, "The way he brought the entire cooperative sector of Gujarat from Congress to BJP's fold is a tribute to his result-oriented strategy-making skills."

One unmistakable trait about Shah is that despite his personal loyalty to Modi, he is seen as more of an RSS man for his strong commitment to Hindutva ideals. As Minister of State for Home, Shah took a strong stand against the activities of the radical ultra Wahhabi Muslims and kept them under check while being very flexible with moderate Muslim sections. It was at his behest that Gujarat's Deobandi Madrasas stopped admitting Kashmiri students after some of them were found to have taken to terrorism upon returning to Kashmir after their studies. However, Shah has one big flaw that has hindered his rise and could do so in future: He has a habit of remaining incommunicado for long periods. This, in turn, keeps him disconnected at crucial times and ends up inflaming even his friends.

Grand Strategist

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Apr 2013 23:57

Shah has one big flaw that has hindered his rise and could do so in future: He has a habit of remaining incommunicado for long periods. This, in turn, keeps him disconnected at crucial times and ends up inflaming even his friends.

Interesting. Why? Tantra? Pow-wow with like minded people behind the scenes?