Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

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deejay
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by deejay »

Marten wrote:...

...
Coming from the plains (sea level), the troops will need 12-20 days to be battle-ready (assuming they are already fitter than the average joe).

Deejay, Sir, if you do not mind explaining this -- best time for us (being on the defensive) or them (for attacking) or battle itself (meaning both sides can fight better then)?
Battle readiness is more than physical readiness. Its not just trekking. High Altitude warfare and Mountain Warfare is different ball game. But they have at least 02 Divs I believe available for an offensive (Rohit would know best).

October is the best time for Chinese to be attacking. (This is my Opinion)
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Vikas »

Do these immediate neighbors of Bharat realize that congerss govt and Nehruvinian mindset has been sent packing in May'14 and Bharat has changed (for good or bad) in a way unrecognizable.

Every poke in the eye will be responded back by few slaps, couple of punches and a kick in the nuts. This is not a govt which will restrain IA while enemies will fire bullets and shells in their direction.
We thought that Babus in Indian MEA are slow to react to the changes or heck even comprehend it but seems like same is the case with Cheenis also. Eleven may end up get dethroned once this stand off is over.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Vikas »

deejay wrote:
Marten wrote:...

...
Coming from the plains (sea level), the troops will need 12-20 days to be battle-ready (assuming they are already fitter than the average joe).

Deejay, Sir, if you do not mind explaining this -- best time for us (being on the defensive) or them (for attacking) or battle itself (meaning both sides can fight better then)?
Battle readiness is more than physical readiness. Its not just trekking. High Altitude warfare and Mountain Warfare is different ball game. But they have at least 02 Divs I believe available for an offensive (Rohit would know best).

October is the best time for Chinese to be attacking. (This is my Opinion)
If both sides are aware of the window and are prepared for it, then there is hardly a chance for any war, maybe a skirmish only.
But if the war is thrust on India, what would be the objective of IA beyond protecting our borders ?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by deejay »

Vikas wrote:...

If both sides are aware of the window and are prepared for it, then there is hardly a chance for any war, maybe a skirmish only.
But if the war is thrust on India, what would be the objective of IA beyond protecting our borders ?
India's posture is defensive. Our political objectives would be to hold on to territory and keep the war localized. Militarily, I see us mostly holding the line. Some tactical advances at most but the territory will not be held.

If Chinese launch a war (and they are the ones that may since we are not going to be aggressive), then they may not limit themselves to land war near the border. There, even they are sure that the armies are matched.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Neela »

I wonder if a Pro-independent President in Taiwan is of any use here. Joint Military exercises near Kinmen islands?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by nam »

In mountain warfare, IA clearly say you need 1:8 ratio to dislodge defensive positions. The Chinese need to dislodge us from the heights in some places and in other places will be coming down narrow passes. In flat lands we have armour.

We maintain 10 dedicated divisions. i.e 100k to 150k men. Even if the ratio is 1:2 , PLA need 200k to 300k men to take them. Ofcourse this is simple calculation.

And to capture huge areas, PLA needs huge numbers and complete air dominance. i.e. remove IAF, the fourth largest airforce on this planet from the skies.

What are the chances?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Prasad »

Marten wrote:
deejay wrote:
If there is going to be land based action then October is the best time. Window closes in November.
Gives them more than enough time to bring in troops and acclimatize in time for action.
Rick Curtis, in the Princeton University Outdoor Action Guide to High Altitude: Acclimatization and Illnesses, suggests that you should “ascend at a rate of no more than 1000 feet per day after the first 10,000 feet” and “rest for an entire day each time you ascend 3000 feet.”
Coming from the plains (sea level), the troops will need 12-20 days to be battle-ready (assuming they are already fitter than the average joe).

Deejay, Sir, if you do not mind explaining this -- best time for us (being on the defensive) or them (for attacking) or battle itself (meaning both sides can fight better then)?
Altitude chambers can reduce that time and the chinese make hyperbaric chambers by the dozens.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by deejay »

Prasad wrote:
Marten wrote: Gives them more than enough time to bring in troops and acclimatize in time for action.

Coming from the plains (sea level), the troops will need 12-20 days to be battle-ready (assuming they are already fitter than the average joe).

Deejay, Sir, if you do not mind explaining this -- best time for us (being on the defensive) or them (for attacking) or battle itself (meaning both sides can fight better then)?
Altitude chambers can reduce that time and the chinese make hyperbaric chambers by the dozens.
Altitude Chambers can't do your High Altitude Training can they? There are other challenges.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by sudhan »

So, Chinese are saying that Modi -Eleven meet cannot happen at G20 summit..

Atmosphere not right
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

X-posting from China Watch Thread-I. Appreciate inputs on the line of argument
Mukesh.Kumar wrote:The more I see of our Dlagon Blothers, the more I am tempted to go back and read "Why Nations Fail?". Striking parallels to some of the situations we keep discussing of a possible Chinese implosion. I think I am going to go home tonight and reread book . But here's my 2 ¥ of humble postulates based on what's been discussed.
  1. China is facing internal pressures with the slowdown in economy, bad debts. Till now economic growth has been predicated by moving people by fiat from agriculture sector to manufacturing and services dependent to a great extent of exports. Not having a productive/ competitive dynamics internally would have seen capital being mis-allocated. The system is not efficient and has reached a situation of diminishing marginal returns. OBOR is an extreme effort to keep the engines running in this growth by fiat scheme.
  2. The unspoken contract between the Communist Farty (sic), and the masses was, don't ask for freedoms or fairness in inclusive economic. We will keep the economic engine booming, you will grow with it. in exchange you will not ask questions on freedom, wisdom of the Farty, how officials grow rich. You will not raise your voices, when you see other citizens being deprived of rights. Today this status quo is coming under question from citizens.
  3. The Farty realizes, that if this is allowed to happen, then they will face Colour Revolutions, disturbances, everywhere. In this crisis time the best way to divert attention is to create an external bogey. South China Sea was one of the earlier ones. The problem is what happens if your opponent gives in? yes, you have made incremental gains, but soon the restive masses like the Plebs in Ancient Rome demand a more exciting Circus.[So you have to bring in bigger animals, more gladiators. India is the next gladiator. Hence the publicity on Weibo, etc- "beeg show, see how the benevolent fatherly party protects you from eebil yindoos. Come glab youl seats." Even if we were to acquiesce to Cheeni demands, they will not be able to stop. They will have to instigate another fight. More territory grab in India. Even if we become the vassal, then China will move on to another country. Maybe Japan, maybe the US. Like a junkie, they need bigger and bigger highs to just keep going and keeping the common citizens from questioning the Farty. Backing down before China is not possible. Their demands will keep growing.
  4. IMVHO, if we are able to stand our ground, then we can push back the bully. We may not win, but we are not going to lose either. The key is to stop dhoti-shivering. Image
  5. But the biggest fallout is for the Lizard if we stand our ground. now that they have promised a spectacle to the masses, a less than clear victory will seriously dent the party's strongman image. Not only will they start facing questions outside, but even smaller nations will start questioning the writ. Losing face here could see a rash of loan defaults, pushback from external states.
  6. IMVVHO, Dlagon is a hurtling train wreck. This confrontation with India is not the moment that it gets derailed, this is one of the larger speed bumps which is going to increase loss of control and accelerate the eventual demise of a totalitarian state run by fiat for the benefit of an elite.India is not what is going to bring down China, contrary to our believed opinions, it is already out of control due to internal factors. The demise of the Dlagon is on the cards
  7. Now what is going to happen to India, I don't know. I do not think we will face an overwhelming onslaught. Maybe a sharp slap on the wrist. If we resist, and are able to gain a victory somewhere else, Dlagon will claim victory, make a brouhaha, and divert attention to another manufactured crisis. Our presstitues will get their lifafas and write how we got taught a lesson. Western ifafas will come and the other story will be how weak but democratic India needs YouEss/ Western help to stand up to the Dlagon. We at BRF will debate.
  8. My fervent hope is that for once we stand up. We push back. We not only manage the cirsis, but also the psot-crisis media circus. For once let us believe in ourself. And also understand that this is not an end all situation, this is one of the steps to reclaiming our position in the world stage.
    There will be more future challenges from the Dlagon and its goat-bred puppy dog, which we will have to keep fighting off.
Sorry for the long post, but writing down helped me clarify my own thoughts and line of argument with my peacenik acquaintances. Would appreciate if gurus on the forum would share their inputs or point out fallacies in my arguments.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Prasad »

deejay wrote:
Prasad wrote: Altitude chambers can reduce that time and the chinese make hyperbaric chambers by the dozens.
Altitude Chambers can't do your High Altitude Training can they? There are other challenges.
Of course sir.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:X-posting from China Watch Thread-I. Appreciate inputs on the line of argument

The more I see of our Dlagon Blothers, the more I am tempted to go back and read "Why Nations Fail?". Striking parallels to some of the situations we keep discussing of a possible Chinese implosion. I think I am going to go home tonight and reread book . But here's my 2 ¥ of humble postulates based on what's been discussed.

.............................
[*] Now what is going to happen to India, I don't know. I do not think we will face an overwhelming onslaught. Maybe a sharp slap on the wrist. If we resist, and are able to gain a victory somewhere else, Dlagon will claim victory, make a brouhaha, and divert attention to another manufactured crisis. [/color] Our presstitues will get their lifafas and write how we got taught a lesson. Western ifafas will come and the other story will be how weak but democratic India needs YouEss/ Western help to stand up to the Dlagon. ...........................

Sorry for the long post, but writing down helped me clarify my own thoughts and line of argument with my peacenik acquaintances. Would appreciate if gurus on the forum would share their inputs or point out fallacies in my arguments.
Carrying forward my chain of thought on possible outcomes for India: India is to big and useful for the rivals of China to allow to fail economically or militarily. A humiliating defeat will be allowed as long as it does not diminish India's ability to be used as a powerful pawn to check China or damage Indian economy as a consumer of western goods and services. So its unlikely that we are going to see an all out escalation. Of course, wars have a habit of taking on their life of their own, but yes, the world powers will not allow China to go full hog.


Similarly, the crux of the situation will be not the actual border skirmish, but the media war post conflagration. T
his is the real battle that will have to be won for salvation of the soul for India. For if we lose the perception battle, for another generation our psyche will be scarred and confidence in a rising India will take a beating like the post 1962 war situation.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by chola »

@M. Kumar

I wrote about this before.

1) Cheen is a trading/manufacturing power not a military one; it occupies a pinnacle position in global trade and manufacturing and is therefore far more powerful during peacetime and weakest during times of conflict when trade is disrupted,

2) Cheen had assiduously kept the PLA out of combat for 4 decades even as the nation grew more powerful and assertive; coupled with a spoiled generation of single children and a wealthier population, the inclination and ability to fight drop every year,

The South China Seas is prime example of how chiniman works in practice. Cheen is launching so many ships (and aircraft) not just for the navy but their coast guard and merchant marine as well that they simply change the facts at sea by numbers.

The USN says this flood of ships can't possibly be crewed appropriately. An US admiral said point blank that he doesn't think the PLAN can fight its way out if a papar bag. But he still worried about the chini plan. Because without war, without being challenged, these ships that can't fight for real can still assert real control by mere presence.

As long as there is peace, the chini industrial complex will win out.

So no, I don't believe the chinis are going to war because of a failing economy. It makes no sense since war disrupts trade and weakens their economy even more. They are a rational people. You don't get to the top of global trade by being irrational like pakis.

Besides going to war with while facing collapse sounds like warrior race mentality. Something maybe a Japan, Russia or delusional Pakistan would do. Not Cheen.

Cheeni are a SYRE non-warrior nation of shopkeepers, traders and farmers. If they have worries about their economy collapsing they would go on an economic warpath with their FOREX and Yuan devaluations. Not with their military.

Waiting for their economy to collapse is akin to having no strategy. The collapse of Cheen according to market laws has been predicted for decades. No collapse till date but instead we have OBOR which is a trillion dollar project. Hardly a sign of economic weakness.

What can hobble them is war. Trading states die when conflict cut off trade. Pure and simple.

So what should we do when presented with an opportunity to go to war with China?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Marten »

Cheeni are a SYRE non-warrior nation of shopkeepers, traders and farmers.
Sounds painfully similar to the nonsense spouted by various Baki afsars who incited various skirmishes and wars believing the yindoo bania is weak and cannot oppose the superior martial Bakis. Let's not become PorikkiDef, please.

PS: I agree with the notes regarding going for their jugular by blocking all trade routes (thereby blocking global trade). If you can build the advantage on the ground, perhaps this will work. I don't think the IA is looking to wage war, but will prosecute action when required.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by rsingh »

So In 1967 Indian teased Chinese by bringing sheeps infront of Embassy in Delhi. This time they can tease them by eating Dhok-La :mrgreen:
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

@Cholaji: I agree with you. Dlagon does not want war. They will posture. That is the extent to which they will go to appease the Plebs. The only way they will go to war is if they are sure of a short demonstrable victory and if they have been themselves painted into a corner. The CCP cant lose face before the Plebs.

So, yes all out war is off the cards. All they want is to browbeat/ bully others.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

@Cholaji. More and more China looks like the Soviet economy of the 1970's. Yes a strategy based on their imploding is nonsense. Instead our objectives should be to strengthen ourselves, and if possible give China the nudge.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by rsingh »

sudhan wrote:So, Chinese are saying that Modi -Eleven meet cannot happen at G20 summit..

Atmosphere not right
was it an indian pressitute who asked this question?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by sudhan »

^^ No clue who posed that query.. Chinese still huffing and puffing hoping to induce dhoti shiver..
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SSridhar »

To punish North Korea, US weighs sanctions on Chinese companies - AP
Having lost patience with China, the Trump administration is studying new steps to starve North Korea of cash for its nuclear programme, including an option that would infuriate Beijing: sanctions on Chinese companies that help keep the North's economy afloat.

It's an approach that's paid off for the US in the past, especially with Iran, where American economic penalties helped drive Tehran to the nuclear negotiating table. Yet there are significant risks, too, including the possibility of opening a new rift with Beijing that could complicate US diplomatic efforts on other critical issues.

The renewed look at "secondary sanctions" comes as Washington seeks a forceful response to North Korea's test this week of an intercontinental ballistic missile that could strike the United States.
Few are advocating a military intervention that could endanger millions of lives in allied South Korea across the border. But options for turning the screw on the North financially also are imperfect.

"I don't like to talk about what I have planned, but I have some pretty severe things that we're thinking about," President Donald Trump said on Thursday during an appearance at a news conference in Poland. "That doesn't mean we're going to do them."

He said the US would be watching what happens in the coming weeks and months but chided North Korea for "behaving in a very, very dangerous manner" and added: "Something will have to be done about it."


Already, a wide array of US and international sanctions target North Korean entities and officials, making it illegal for Americans to do business with them. The US also has pursued companies outside North Korea accused of surreptitiously helping the communist country, such as a small Chinese bank the US penalized last week for allegedly laundering money for North Korea.

But the US thus far has avoided what sanctions experts describe as a logical escalation: secondary sanctions targeting banks and companies that do any business with North Korea - even legitimate transactions that aren't explicitly prohibited by UN Security Council resolutions.

Nikki Haley, Trump's UN ambassador, told an emergency session of the council on Wednesday that the world must do more to "cut off the major sources of hard currency to the North Korean regime."

"We will look at any country that chooses to do business with this outlaw regime," Haley said.


On the Korean Peninsula on Thursday, South Korean jets and navy ships fired a barrage of guided-missiles into the ocean during drills, a display of military power two days after North Korea test-launched its first intercontinental ballistic missile. The live-fire drills off South Korea's east coast were previously scheduled.

In a show of force, South Korea and the United States also staged "deep strike" precision missile firing drills on Wednesday as a warning to the North. Thursday's drills were aimed at boosting readiness against possible maritime North Korean aggression. They involved 15 warships including a 3,200-ton-class destroyer, as well as helicopters and fighter jets, South Korea's navy said.

"Our military is maintaining the highest-level of readiness to make a swift response even if a war breaks out today," said Rear Adm. Kwon Jeong Seob, who directed the drills, according to the statement.

Potential sanctions targets previously identified by the treasury department include companies based in China, US officials have said. Some may have no business with Americans or US firms, making it harder for the US to limit their operations or freeze assets. But secondary sanctions would still force such companies to stop doing business with North Korea or risk losing their access to the US financial system, and with it, the dollar - the world's main currency for global trade and finance.

Beijing steadfastly opposes such measures. It says sanctions would hurt China's interests and criticizes the approach for being one-sided, as opposed to international penalties that are globally agreed.

"The US needs to understand the Chinese will never allow Chinese companies and individuals to be designated (for sanctions) at the UN, and the US dollar is still pre-eminent. So the US has leverage," said Anthony Ruggiero at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, which advocates for a tough approach to North Korea's nuclear programme.

Trump, in recent days, appears to have concluded that his early efforts to enlist China's cooperation on North Korea haven't paid off. On Wednesday, Trump took to Twitter to chastise China for allowing its trade with the North to grow in recent months even as the US urged a reduction.

"So much for China working with us - but we had to give it a try!" Trump wrote.

Senior US officials said imposing sanctions on companies dealing with the North was among several steps considered after the ICBM launch, as US intelligence, military and diplomatic officials reviewed different possibilities.

The Trump administration hasn't given up hope China will change course and step up pressure on North Korea, officials said.

In Congress, lawmakers have proposed new sanctions on North Korea's shipping industry and alleged use of slave labour. The House passed a bill in May, but the Senate has yet to approve it.

Secondary sanctions on North Korea would borrow from President Barack Obama's Iran approach before the 2015 nuclear deal with Tehran. After Congress authorized such penalties, the Obama administration worked with nations around the world to get them to reduce their oil imports from Tehran, while negotiating secretly with Iranian officials. The sanctions effectively deterred European firms from doing business with Iran and commercial powers such as China and India were encouraged to buy less Iranian petroleum.

North Korea's isolation, which is far greater than Iran's was, could make it even more susceptible to such pressure. China accounts for about 90 per cent of North Korea's trade.

But China has leverage too which is why previous US administrations have held back. China is now the world's second-largest economy, it holds trillions of dollars in US debt and its companies are increasingly tied financially with the West. And angering Beijing could lead to unpredictable responses in places like the South China Sea, where Beijing has various territorial disputes with America's allies and partners in Southeast Asia.

"It will put a magnifying glass on Chinese businesses that the Chinese government may not want," said Doreen Edelman, an attorney at Baker Donelson who specializes in sanctions compliance.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Singha »

burning of the chinese flags and effigies of peking rulers is called for in the streets of Gangtok, Kalimpong and Thimphu.

let there be early ram lila this year.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by hanumadu »

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618 2h2 hours ago
But do note that PLAGF 'little emperor' recruits will not fare well in high-altitude warfare. As of today, PLAGF manpower quality is suspect
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Venkarl »

sudhan wrote:So, Chinese are saying that Modi -Eleven meet cannot happen at G20 summit..

Atmosphere not right

What will they cancel?
Our itenary doesn't even have it on list...bwahahaha :lol: :lol:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 473638.cms
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by rsingh »

^^^^^
Tight slap. On other hand why baki's are silent? Normally under such circumstances they shout from roof tops. I think they got strict order from PLA. But why?
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Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Peregrine »

X Posted on the China Watch Thread

US-China gap on North Korea widening; Donald Trump mulls sanctions on Chinese companies

BEIJING: President Donald Trump's hopes for China's help with restraining North Korea appear to have gone nowhere, with the sides growing further apart as their approaches and concerns diverge.

China shows no sign of caving to US pressure to tighten the screws on Pyongyang, while the North's recent missile tests have done little to rattle Beijing, in contrast to the anxiety sparked in Washington. China's bottom line continues to hold fast: No to any measures that might topple Kim Jong Un's hard-line communist regime.

"There's been a lot of wishful thinking on the US side that China was coming around in its approach," said John Delury, a professor at Yonsei University in Seoul.

Trump seemed to think he'd found a partner on North Korea in Chinese President Xi Jinping following their April summit in Florida. Yet, North Korea continued to test missiles and China continued to keep open, and even expand, economic channels with Pyongyang. By this week, he bloom was well and truly off the rose.

"Perhaps China will put a heavy move on North Korea and end this nonsense once and for all!'' Trump tweeted on Tuesday, as if still holding out for a Hail Mary from Beijing. The next day, he seemed requited to the facts: ``Trade between China and North Korea grew almost 40% in the first quarter. So much for China working with us _ but we had to give it a try."

Where persuasion hasn't worked, Trump's administration has turned to threats. Washington's UN ambassador Nikki Haley warned Wednesday that China's trade with the US could suffer if it didn't help out following Pyongyang's successful launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile. Haley said that "much of the burden of enforcing UN sanctions rests with China," which accounts for 90 percent of trade with North Korea.

The US has already blacklisted one Chinese bank accused of illicit dealings with North Korea and is penalizing a Chinese shipping company and two Chinese individuals accused of facilitating illegal activities by the North. US officials say they plan to look at other Chinese entities as possible targets of so-called secondary sanctions.

Already on Monday, Xi appeared to respond to the downturn in ties, warning in a phone call with Trump that "some negative factors" were hurting the hurting the relationship.

Although Beijing is far from happy with the current situation, and relations between Beijing and Pyongyang are getting "colder and colder," China will remain resistant to any approach to Pyongyang other than a multilateral one, especially one that involved the United Nations, said Niu Jun, an expert at Peking University in Beijing.

North Korea's missile tests, meanwhile, aren't seen as such a concern because China itself doesn't feel threatened, Niu said. "For China, it's a question of regional imbalance, of contradictions between the sides," Niu said.

In keeping with that sense of threat level, China has counseled a calm approach centered on negotiations and bilateral give-and-take. That is seen most prominently in what has become known as the "dual suspension" proposal whereby North Korea suspends its nuclear and missile tests in return for the US and South Korea suspending large-scale military exercises that Pyongyang sees as rehearsal for an invasion.

That idea, which originated with Pyongyang, has been rejected by the US and some experts see it as a ploy by Beijing to avoid committing itself. "It requires nothing on China's part, so it's easy for them to make such a proposal," Delury said.

Meanwhile, a fundamental disagreement over the utility of sanctions remains a major obstacle to further cooperation, said Tong Zhao, an associate at the Carnegie-Tsinghua Center for Global Policy, a think tank in Beijing.

The US seems to believe that sanctions must be so tough as to threaten the survival of the Pyongyang regime and force them to end their programmes. Yet, by leaving Kim feeling even more under threat, ending their programs might be the last thing Pyongyang does, Tong said. "China still doesn't understand the American logic," he said.

Despite poor relations between Xi and Kim, China remains heavily invested in the North Korean regime. It acts as a buffer with the South and the 30,000 American troops stationed there, and remains a reliable, if isolated communist ally. Chinese companies benefit from a lack of competition in the North and worries over the Kim regime distract from China's own controversial actions in the South China Sea and elsewhere.

The collapse of the regime, on the other hand, would bring a set of unknowns _ civil war, loose nukes, refugees flowing across the Chinese border and US and South Korean troops on the Yalu River _ none of which are particularly appetizing to Beijing.

That China sees relatively little reason to act on North Korea is born out also in its concerns that events on the peninsula are overshadowing other aspects of the US-China relationship.

"You can't say that they're coming closer on North Korea, but not everything has to do with that," said Shi Yinhong, a professor of international relations at Beijing's Renmin University.

"It's not good to have everything else crushed under the issue of North Korea," he said.

Cheers Image
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by sudhan »

rsingh wrote:^^^^^
Tight slap. On other hand why baki's are silent? Normally under such circumstances they shout from roof tops. I think they got strict order from PLA. But why?
They are doing their bit..but no furious fist waving on behalf of their iron birather.. They launched their favorite bottle rocket, NASR and are currently running around with their tails up claiming that India's cold start has been rendered useless..
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Vikas »

Why this assumption that Cheenis can not go to war with India. They might as well to prove a point and their dominance.
Again this assumption that PLA is competent enough to push IA back is again, wishful thinking. Who knows what dynamics War will bring out.
Thrusting a war to grab a small piece of Indian territory does not seem like a sane objective. If war happens, Chinese will try to grab whole of AP and some part of Sikkim for sure but then would Bharat be contend with defending or take this opportunity to take back Aksai chin. After all if its war then this might as well be a war worth fighting for.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SwamyG »

This thread in twitter lays out how China is only a paper dragon: https://twitter.com/handle_anonymus/sta ... 9131315200
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Marten »

China is conducting live fire war simulations in Tibet, per Republic. Bhutan troops heading to Doklam plateau.

Looks and smells like we will go to war but not say anything about it or budge from our positions.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by pankajs »

I was think on this ... when I saw the twitter post.
Anonymous poster‏ @handle_anonymus 24m24 minutes ago

damage it enough) of China is a desperate measure from their part which is to be used defensively, if India break through Himalaya and
1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
Anonymous poster‏ @handle_anonymus 24m24 minutes ago

marches onto Lhasa. There is one major Rail link, and 3 major roads from China into Tibet which would be taken out within first few hours of
2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
Check the Chumbi valley wrt Lhasa on the map. It used to be an old trade route between India and Tibet and IIRC the route taken by the English expeditionary force. It is the most viable launchpad for a push towards Lhasa. Once out of the valley the terrain is mostly flat.

If India was to grab the valley the scenario will change dramatically. Draw a straight line from top of Sikkim to Top of Butan and then from this line calculate the distance to Lhasa.
Last edited by pankajs on 06 Jul 2017 19:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

Too many fighter jets taking to the skies over Pune
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Chandragupta »

Marten wrote:China is conducting live fire war simulations in Tibet, per Republic. Bhutan troops heading to Doklam plateau.

Looks and smells like we will go to war but not say anything about it or budge from our positions.
:rotfl:

Reminds me of villagers crossing forests in old times - used to carry a big drum and used to keep beating it relentlessly to try & scare away Tigers. Chipanda is shit scared.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Iyersan »

Marten wrote:China is conducting live fire war simulations in Tibet, per Republic. Bhutan troops heading to Doklam plateau.

Looks and smells like we will go to war but not say anything about it or budge from our positions.
Indian media beating Chinese meadia at war mongering :rotfl: :rotfl:
But is it true that Bhutan army is on the move?? :-?
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Singha »

does india have full diplomatic relations with taiwan? I assume our economic ties are very cordial - I am typing this out on a Benq monitor.

its time we established a full scale diplomatic relation with taiwan - just to watch the fun and paroxyms of rage

why on earth did we ever agree to their stupid demands like not having a full embassy in taiwan?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India-Taipei_Association

its time to correct such historical wrongs

also tibet must have a full consulate in delhi with the dalai lama as exiled head of state and india must formally renounce its one-china policy wrt tibet and xinjiang. we should invite the xinjiang uighurs to select a Khalifa from the ranks in turkey or idlib and send him over here with full diplomatic protocol accorded :lol:
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Singha »

Iyersan wrote:Too many fighter jets taking to the skies over Pune
keep an eye if they return...hopefully headed east on posting.
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by SwamyG »

SwamyG wrote:This thread in twitter lays out how China is only a paper dragon: https://twitter.com/handle_anonymus/sta ... 9131315200
Bump....the tweet thread is too valuable to be the last post in the previous page :rotfl:
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

SwamyG wrote:
SwamyG wrote:This thread in twitter lays out how China is only a paper dragon: https://twitter.com/handle_anonymus/sta ... 9131315200
Bump....the tweet thread is too valuable to be the last post in the previous page :rotfl:
:twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by ramana »

SwamyG wrote:This thread in twitter lays out how China is only a paper dragon: https://twitter.com/handle_anonymus/sta ... 9131315200
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by g.sarkar »

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... SkdcJ.html
Sikkim standoff: China carries out military drill with tanks in Tibet
The drill, which involved firing live ammunition and testing new equipment, was carried out to evaluate the battle-readiness of PLA troops at altitudes of 15000 feet and above.
The Chinese Army has carried out a military exercise on the Tibet plateau, deploying tanks and conducting live firing at a height of 5,100 metres for the first time, amid a standoff with Indian forces near Nathu La in the Sikkim sector that has taken bilateral ties to a new low.
The drill, which also involved the testing of new equipment, was conducted to evaluate the battle-readiness of People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops at altitudes of 15,000 feet and above, official Xinhua news agency reported.
The exercise assessed “battlefield environment analysis, combat operations, synergies that need to be developed during battle”, and also featured live fire shooting training and the testing of integration of military operations, the report in Chinese said.
....
However, a report on the Guancha website said the tanks — called Xinqingtan in Chinese — were rolled out in an area of Tibet near the Indian border, and that Beijing was increasing its military buildup in the region as “a show of force designed to deter the Indian military”.
The new tank’s technology and firepower, the report said, were “more advanced than the Russia-made T-90s deployed by India”.
Also, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOLk9XmHQG0
Chinese Military conducts LIVE FIRE exercise to send message to US Air Force
Gautam
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Re: Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Post by ramana »

guatam THnaks.

Others, Folks about 70+ guests are on this page right now. I would like more data, news reports and comments related to the data than some pulled out of the air.
Thanks for the help.
ramana
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