India-US Strategic News and Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jun 2013 21:20

Kerry van start the process for the following
_ Handover David Headley and Rana
- Handover Ravinder Singh
- Stop lethal military equipment sales to TSP

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 25 Jun 2013 21:36

ramana wrote:Kerry van start the process for the following
_ Handover David Headley and Rana
- Handover Ravinder Singh
- Stop lethal military equipment sales to TSP

And while he is at it, he can also reform the Taliban, make TSP Generals see some sense, get the US/SD and perhaps the 5-sided building to be less arrogant.

Ramana, did you perhaps miss a 'sarcasm' emoticon?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Jun 2013 21:42

ramana wrote:Kerry van start the process for the following
_ Handover David Headley and Rana
- Handover Ravinder Singh
- Stop lethal military equipment sales to TSP

The yanks are guided by their protestant ethic and maintenance of global supremacy. We can only rely on ourselves if we want to challenge them. The best way to create mutual respect between the two countries is if India fixes up its governance quagmire and adopts a comprehensive long term strategy and identity built around its indigenous and ancient civilization. Otherwise, we will remain beggars.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Jun 2013 02:00

ramana wrote:Kerry van start the process for the following
_ Handover David Headley and Rana
- Handover Ravinder Singh
- Stop lethal military equipment sales to TSP

Hope that is in no particular order. If in preferential order, the last one would come first on the list and Secretary JK should be pressed for some kind of a policy statement, especially because he was one of the prime movers.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 26 Jun 2013 05:44

rajithn wrote:

And disgusted that Khurshid actually defended the U.S Gov PRISM program!!!!!

Possible that NSA surveillance of Indian comm traffic to pinpoint jihadis is shared with GoI as quid pro quo for not going ballistic over the next 26/11?

I say this in the following context:

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel was among the first foreign leaders to criticize the Obama administration’s surveillance program. But her remarks have been more tempered in the ensuing days, in part, according to some observers, because Germany benefits from electronic snooping from the United States."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... ory_1.html

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Jun 2013 06:40

Cosmo_R ji

> Possible that NSA surveillance of Indian comm traffic to pinpoint jihadis is shared with GoI as quid pro quo > for not going ballistic over the next 26/11?

Two previous policy statements/incidents to remember

1. Secretary Panetta's outburst that - paraphrasing here - "India is a threat to the US"
2. "Losing" material evidence that has been provided in good faith

Secretary JK should be pressed on these matters as well in addition to the three points Ramana garu already listed modulo precedence.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jun 2013 08:43

Its in order and think it thru.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Jun 2013 10:40

You mean even a thousand mile journey starts with a small step. Sounds reasonable.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 26 Jun 2013 20:33

matrimc wrote:Cosmo_R ji

> Possible that NSA surveillance of Indian comm traffic to pinpoint jihadis is shared with GoI as quid pro quo > for not going ballistic over the next 26/11?

Two previous policy statements/incidents to remember

1. Secretary Panetta's outburst that - paraphrasing here - "India is a threat to the US"
2. "Losing" material evidence that has been provided in good faith

Secretary JK should be pressed on these matters as well in addition to the three points Ramana garu already listed modulo precedence.

I'm not defending US surveillance, I'm merely trying to posit a plausible reason why SK would go out of his way to defend it.

On Panetta, I am inclined to to think he misspoke: the new hyphenation is China-India and there is the danger when you stray from prepared remarks, that you goof up by using in the wrong context. To revisit

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/panet ... us/877581/

JK has already done the yada yada: "....defining partnership of the 21st century ..." etc. Bottom line on India-US is neither side can deliver the basics: they can't deliver on Pakistan and we can't deliver on nuke liability and FDI.

A bit OT, but related to the US-India equation:

Now the talk is of shale fracking tech. I don't know where they plan to do this but onshore, there is a fundamental difference between India and the US: in the latter, the mineral rights are owned by the property owner. In India, I believe the mineral rights are owned by the government—making it antithetical to property owners'/squatters/tribals interests. With vast coal reserves, India is unable to produce at home—instead Indian companies are investing in overseas coal and importing it.

The most pressing for India right now (as I have said before) is to find a way to finance BoP deficits: we run a merchandise and current account deficit and were financing it through short term capital inflows not FDI which is more stable. Now with Rupee over 60 to USD, the oil bill is going to go through the roof. India desperately needs to open up the energy sector and allow FDI wherever investors want—else we are facing a 1991 situation again. We must engage the US in trade, technology and FDI.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jun 2013 21:05

matrimc wrote:You mean even a thousand mile journey starts with a small step. Sounds reasonable.

No.

Kerry van start the process for the following
_ Handover David Headley and Rana
- Handover Ravinder Singh
- Stop lethal military equipment sales to TSP

The first step of handing over DCH & Rana will send shock waves thru TSP and local Indian terrorists. They will lose confidence that they have the benign support of the US in their actions. This will have shock waves from Kabul to Bollywood.

Second step of handing over Rabinder Singh would also self clean all the moles and termites in the Indian ecosystem. It will make them more aware of being true to their own salt (namak).

After these two, the third maybe just a gesture.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Jun 2013 22:14

Thanks. In that light, I hope India presses and gets from Secy Kerry a time table for the first item if not for the first two.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 29 Jun 2013 09:26

The Billionaire's Apprentice: The Rise of The Indian-American Elite and The Fall of The Galleon Hedge Fund

http://www.amazon.com/The-Billionaires- ... 1455504025

Just as WASPs, Irish-Catholics and Our Crowd Jews once made the ascent from immigrants to powerbrokers, it is now the Indian-American's turn. Citigroup, PepsiCo and Mastercard are just a handful of the Fortune 500 companies led by a group known as the "Twice Blessed." Yet little is known about how these Indian emigres (and children of emigres) rose through the ranks. Until now...

The collapse of the Galleon Group--a hedge fund that managed more than $7 billion in assets--from criminal charges of insider trading was a sensational case that pitted prosecutor Preet Bharara, himself the son of Indian immigrants, against the best and brightest of the South Asian business community. At the center of the case was self-described King of Kings, Galleon's founder Raj Rajaratnam, a Sri-Lankan-born, Wharton-educated billionaire. But the most shocking allegation was that the éminence grise of Indian business, Rajat Gupta, was Rajaratnam's accomplice and mole. If not for Gupta's nose-to-the-grindstone rise to head up McKinsey & Co and a position on the Goldman Sachs board, men like Rajaratnam would have never made it to the top of America's moneyed elite.

Author Anita Raghavan criss-crosses the globe from Wall Street boardrooms to Delhi's Indian Institute of Technology as she uncovers the secrets of this subculture--an incredible tale of triumph, temptation and tragedy.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jun 2013 01:00

BookTV on CSPan has the author talking about the above book on Sunday 6/30. Check you listings.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Jul 2013 19:19

can't they pressure/steam wash and paint the grills?

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... epage=true

and they thought, the khans will not do it?

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 01 Jul 2013 19:59

"twice blessed"? Is that a play on "twice born"?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jul 2013 20:09

Probably. Otherwise does not fit into the sentence. Looks like there is jealousy just beneath a thin layer of bon homie.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Jul 2013 01:08

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/2 ... 13011.html

Obama Administration, Congress Intensify Opposition To Global Generic Drug Industry

WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration and members of Congress are pressing India to curb its generic medication industry. The move comes at the behest of U.S. pharmaceutical companies, which have drowned out warnings from public health experts that inexpensive drugs from India are essential to providing life-saving treatments around the world.Low-cost generics from India have dramatically lowered medical costs in developing countries and proved critical to global AIDS relief programs; about 98 percent of the drugs purchased by President George W. Bush's landmark PEPFAR AIDS relief program are generics from India. Before Indian companies rolled out generic versions priced at $1 a day, AIDS medication cost about $10,000 per person per year.
But India's generic industry has also cut into profits for Pfizer and other U.S. and European drug companies. In response, these companies have sought to impose aggressive patenting and intellectual property standards in India, measures that would grant the firms monopoly pricing power over new drugs and lock out generics producers.On Thursday, a House subcommittee held a hearing on international trade disputes with India that included testimony from American manufacturing and solar energy groups. Most of the event, however, was devoted to U.S. drug company Pfizer's complaints about Indian policies that have fostered the country's billion-dollar generics industry. The hearing followed Secretary of State John Kerry's trip to India earlier this week for the U.S.-India Strategic Dialogue, a major diplomatic mission.Last week, a bipartisan group of 170 House lawmakers sent a letter to Kerry and President Barack Obama raising objections to India's patent system. But at Thursday's hearing, few seemed well-versed on intellectual property or public health issues."I first learned of this issue just a few short weeks ago from Pfizer, my largest employer in my district," said Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.), before asking Pfizer Chief Intellectual Property Officer Roy Waldron if his company had talked to the Obama administration about its concerns.

"We have been speaking with [the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative] and the administration and we're very hopeful that this issue has been raised during Secretary Kerry's visit to India," Waldron replied.A State Department spokesperson told HuffPost that during his trip, Kerry "discussed a number of economic and trade issues with Indian officials, including ongoing issues in the pharmaceutical sector."Kerry's involvement represents an escalation in the Obama administration's opposition to India's generic drug policies. Following two recent landmark court decisions, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative have been pressuring the Indian government on its patent standards.In January, India's Supreme Court rejected a patent on a Novartis leukemia drug called Gleevec (or Glivec), clearing the way for cheaper generic production. The active ingredient in Gleevec has been available for years, but Novartis filed for a patent on an updated version available in pill form. India's highest court turned down the application on the grounds that the delivery format did not constitute a legitimate innovation.
Gleevec is protected by multiple U.S. patents, and costs upwards of $75,000 a year domestically. In India, where annual per capita income is about $1,400, Novartis was charging about $31,000 a year for the medication. The generic version legalized by the court's decision costs around $2,100.Last year, India also permitted a generic manufacturer to produce a cheaper version of another cancer drug patented by Bayer AG. Bayer was charging $5,000 a month for the drug, while only servicing about 2 percent of the population that needed it. The generic version was priced at $157 a month.By securing secondary patents, as Novartis tried to do with Gleevec, drug companies can effectively extend monopolies on their medicines beyond the standard 20-year window required by World Trade Organization treaties. The practice is known as "evergreening," and is frowned upon by the World Health Organization.At Thursday's hearing, Rep. Jerry McNerny (D-Calif.) appeared more concerned than other lawmakers about the public health consequences of altering India's existing patent system. He asked Rohit Malpani of the international medical aid group Doctors Without Borders to elaborate on problems that arise from evergreening.Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) also extolled the importance of access to inexpensive medications for PEPFAR, which has seen its budget cut in recent years.Otherwise, lawmakers appeared receptive to Waldron's contention that U.S.-style intellectual property policies in India will help develop a more robust and innovative medical system there. Waldron also said such practices would lead to the creation of more American jobs, pointing to a study from the U.S. Department of Commerce that was also cited in last week's letter from lawmakers.
That study has been widely ridiculed for overstating the impact of intellectual property protections on jobs, claiming that "IP-intensive" industries are responsible for nearly 20 percent of all American jobs. Yet the pharmaceutical industry, which is largely comprised of firms dependent on government copyright and patent protections, accounts for a little less than 300,000 jobs, according to the report.
The U.S. has attacked the global generic drug industry before. President Bill Clinton adopted policies during his presidency that were hostile toward the introduction of generic AIDS medications in Africa, relenting only when activists disrupted campaign events over the issue. Clinton later came to regret his administration's position and has been very active on international AIDS relief efforts through the Clinton Global Initiative.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 02 Jul 2013 09:59

^^^
I thought the Democrats were supposed to be for social justice and all that, no?
a consistent pattern since Clinton times, whenever Dems are in power, these backdoor attacks on India always increase.
the trade/proliferation/patents/outsourcing/etc is a predictable line of "liberal" attack on India whenever they can manage it.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 02 Jul 2013 13:21

I wonder what the Indian govt will do if he shows up at the Indian embassy and asks for asylum.

----------

Snowden has asked for asylum in India

Snowden, who faces espionage charges in the United States and is believed to be staying in a transit area at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, surfaced with a letter to the Ecuadorean government and in a statement released through anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks, which has taken up his cause.

WikiLeaks also released another statement saying Snowden was asking for asylum in several countries, including Russia, China, Brazil, India and Ireland. Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa was quoted in Britain's Guardian newspaper as saying his country could not consider an asylum request unless Snowden was on Ecuadorean territory.

http://news.yahoo.com/snowden-threatens ... 54372.html

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 02 Jul 2013 15:55

Edward Snowden is the master stroke from the American Intelligence community. After failing to penetrate Wikileaks despite the best efforts, the intel-comm devised a fantastic scheme to lure the rats out of hiding.
The latest request for asylum to many countries proves the theory that it is a ruse. What did Snowden actually reveal? It is well known fact since 80's that Americans have this program under various names. All he did was give credibility to the long held belief. This actually gives more power and influence to Big-Brother and polarizes the society. The more the people are scared, the better.

Putin played like a real star. Must have gathered all his experience from Berlin days. He made sure he did not show up his cards. There will be some fools in India who would give him more air in our pathetic media and reveal our secrets in return for some pseudo-association.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Jul 2013 15:57

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 875875.cms

India turns down asylum request

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 02 Jul 2013 16:18

^^^ Why so eagerness? Is there a deadline by which India has to reply to an asylum request?

I don't think Snowden was serious to consider India. He was simply testing waters. Even if he was granted asylum , I can almost see him being handed over to US at some point in future. Our political will is very weak!!!

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 02 Jul 2013 16:20

wonder what was he drinking when he sent the request

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 02 Jul 2013 17:33

First of all, the whole Snowden, like Wiki Leaks is a cart load of BS hot air, US making it sound much bigger than the so called revelations are, and laughing its way to the bank. I have been telling you this since 9/11, US, along with its pipsqueak western lackeys are wtaching the shadow of every Muslim, definitely within their borders, and those it considers suspect elsewhere like in TSP with Kiyani and ISI's help.

Then this comical spectacle of the eunuchs in Delhi refusing Snowden's request. This gives Americans who give away nothing, and US-pasand idiotic elites to talk about "straegic partnership" and how US and India are on the same page. Never mind, the worst TSP, Khalistani, Kashmiri, you name it terrorists are safely ensconced in US/UK raising funds and spreading terror in India. And US shows the middle finger to any such request from India asking US to desist from giving such scum asylum.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 02 Jul 2013 19:27

CRamS wrote:. I have been telling you this since 9/11, US, along with its pipsqueak western lackeys are wtaching the shadow of every Muslim, definitely within their borders,

Not just muslims. US is subjecting its citizens too to the same surveillance and police state measures. The truth is that Islamists including Al qaeda have been successful beyond their own imagination and US has lost the war on terror. America is no longer a free country.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Jul 2013 20:38

Hope not. We are all posting posts which are critical to various degrees of GOTUS, aren't we?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 02 Jul 2013 21:37

matrimc wrote:Hope not. We are all posting posts which are critical to various degrees of GOTUS, aren't we?

It is absurdly impossible to closely monitor each and every utterance by each and every person, let alone pounce on every little transgression. The fact that we are making posts critical of the US without getting a 3 a.m. knock on the door is not proof of anything.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 02 Jul 2013 21:55

matrimc wrote:... We are all posting posts which are critical to various degrees of GOTUS, aren't we?

IMHO your statement is a slight understatement!
Let me quote, just a one message here (emphasis and numbering mine)

darshhan wrote:
CRamS wrote:. I have been telling you this since 9/11, US, along with its pipsqueak western lackeys are wtaching the shadow of every Muslim, definitely within their borders,
Not just muslims. US is subjecting its citizens too to the same surveillance and police state measures. (1) The truth is that Islamists including Al qaeda have been successful beyond their own imagination and
(2) US has lost the war on terror.
(3) America is no longer a free country.

As a brf oldie I can say that this theme seems to be primary focus to many here. The similar proclamation has been repeatedly mad by many posters such as CRamji, Philipji.

Of course, majority (perhaps about 90%) of Pakistani's will also agree with all the 3 points mentioned above.
One just has to look at the following images to see this.. (Support of above 3 points) on this link:
( please see this for example)

***
I wonder why millions of Americans of Indian origin CHOSE to (and continue to) make US home if "America has lost the war on terror and America is no longer a free country"

(Instead of , I mean, joining those "successful beyond imagination Al-queda abodes

)

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Jul 2013 21:59

KLN Murthy garu

> every little transgression

It interesting that you term these critical posts/speech as "transgressions". Citizens have every right to criticize the government that is elected by them and de-elect them by various legal means. A little transgression by the governments (more correctly by mis-guided individual officials) now and then in countries like US or India is not going to make the whole country non-free.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 02 Jul 2013 23:33

Amber G. wrote:

***
I wonder why millions of Americans of Indian origin CHOSE to (and continue to) make US home if "America has lost the war on terror and America is no longer a free country"
(Instead of , I mean, joining those "successful beyond imagination Al-queda abodes )

I reside in India.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 03 Jul 2013 00:49

Ecuador is not considering Edward Snowden's asylum request and never intended to facilitate his flight from Hong Kong, president Rafael Correa said, as the whistleblower made a personal plea to Quito for his case to be heard.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... en-mistake

Asylum option narrows
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23145887

Rejected: Austria, Brazil, Finland, India, Ireland, Norway, Poland, Spain, Switzerland
Withdrawn: Russia
Pending: Bolivia, China, Cuba, Ecuador, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Netherlands, Nicaragua
Unconfirmed: France, Venezuela

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 Jul 2013 01:19

matrimc wrote:KLN Murthy garu

> every little transgression

It interesting that you term these critical posts/speech as "transgressions". Citizens have every right to criticize the government that is elected by them and de-elect them by various legal means. A little transgression by the governments (more correctly by mis-guided individual officials) now and then in countries like US or India is not going to make the whole country non-free.

Transgression, not in my eyes but in the eyes of a hypothethical US police state that is designed to suppress and punish dissent of any kind. Just to make it clear, I don't think US is anywhere near such a police state.

My point is that, the fact of being able to post material critical of US is not, in itself, proof of non-police state character of US, since even a hypothetical police state would be hard put to cast such a wide net without spending inordinate amount of resources.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2013 02:26

vinod wrote:.. Our political will is very weak!!!

How is our non-political will?

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 03 Jul 2013 04:50

Wouldn't be surprised if this snowden saga could easily be a hit job by ukstanis. The dog that didn't bark. Nothing from ukstanis, except this guy lands in former ukstani colony, travels and coordinates with a brit. Who benefits? Who is affected?

Could be same type of operation as someone setting up Unkil (Colin Powell) to testify and make a mockery in UN w.r.t to wmd in Iraq.
An embrassment for obama?

Ukstanis have definite interest in how the domestic things pan out in US, not to mention how US relationships with other european nations occur. Ukstanis use subtle means using the pliable presses across the atlantic, and have inordinate influence in D.C. circles. There are enough worshippers of ukstanis in US, after all long lost cousins who once ran an empire must know a thing or two.

Looks like Putin came out wiser and handled it better.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 03 Jul 2013 06:04

KLNMurthy wrote:Just to make it clear, I don't think US is anywhere near such a police state.

I agree with you on this. My disagreement is with the wide brush painting of US not being a free state. IMHO, US, India, and most old and new Europe, Japan, and Australia are in a different league altogether compared to a lot of countries in W. Asia/N. Africa, and China.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Jul 2013 17:58

AmberJi,

Sarcasm aside, you are confusing economic goodies that US offers with its undeniable, xenophobic, racist, colonial behavior in the way it conducts its foreign policy and world hegemony. And funding TSP to the tune of billions and allowing it to develop nukes and terrorists to keep us Hindus in check is one manifestation of this.

Talking about 1000s of Indians living in US, I can bet you, majority of Indians do not share or subscribe or even loathe the personal lifestyle choices that Americans make. So, that makes Indians hypocritical and should not live in US? Can one live in US and yet be critical of US abhorrent behavior on many counts? Or is that not allowed?

DarshanJi, One small correction. I don't believe US is snooping its "own citizens". Please note the quotes. It only snoops on "its own citizens" who can be passed off as "not its own". And I am sure that includes uber patriots like AmberJi.

Ever since this snooping BS has been on the airwaves, with the usual hot air debates, I sensed an under current of "code words" coming from govt, all this was done to keep the "American people" safe. And I am sure you know what they mean by "American people". And why do you think the vast majority of "American people" believe what US did was right and Snowden is a traitor? You really think US govt was snooping on its citizens who look like Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber?

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 04 Jul 2013 03:04

CRamS wrote:AmberJi,

Sarcasm aside, you are confusing economic goodies that US offers with its undeniable, xenophobic, racist, colonial behavior in the way it conducts its foreign policy and world hegemony. And funding TSP to the tune of billions and allowing it to develop nukes and terrorists to keep us Hindus in check is one manifestation of this.

Talking about 1000s of Indians living in US, I can bet you, majority of Indians do not share or subscribe or even loathe the personal lifestyle choices that Americans make. So, that makes Indians hypocritical and should not live in US? Can one live in US and yet be critical of US abhorrent behavior on many counts? Or is that not allowed?

DarshanJi, One small correction. I don't believe US is snooping its "own citizens". Please note the quotes. It only snoops on "its own citizens" who can be passed off as "not its own". And I am sure that includes uber patriots like AmberJi.

Ever since this snooping BS has been on the airwaves, with the usual hot air debates, I sensed an under current of "code words" coming from govt, all this was done to keep the "American people" safe. And I am sure you know what they mean by "American people". And why do you think the vast majority of "American people" believe what US did was right and Snowden is a traitor? You really think US govt was snooping on its citizens who look like Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber?

How does the US government, manage to figure out who's kosher (Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber being examples you quoted), at some aggregation point say ? Do the electrons that emanate out of Miley Cyrus' and Justin Bieber's smartphones/computers carry information identifying them as not one of ["its own citizens" who can be passed off as "not its own"] ?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 04 Jul 2013 16:47

‘No girls allowed’: Iraq war vet Rep. Tulsi Gabbard on opening combat missions to women

Good interview with Rep. Tulsi Gabberd from Hawai; watch the interview

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Jul 2013 19:13

KrishnaK,

How do US drones miraculously miss the "good Taliban", LeT, Haqqani etc, and take out only the "bad Taliban" just as the ISI doctors prescribed? You get the picture. Likewise, the Miley Cyruses and Justin Biebers, I mean the "real American people" will be spared because the aggregation points are controlled by the AT&Ts, the Verizons, the Comcasts etc, along with sophisticated tools and software from Google, Yahoo, Facebook etc providing other input. In other words, a combination of electronic intelligence combines with Humint. So much for "free enterprise" and how much Google et. al self righteously claim they are independent of their govt.

As an aside, I admire the patriotism of Google, MS etc. Recall, when TSP attacked Indian parliament, Narayan Murthy et. al ran to Delhi and demanded VajpayeeJi to hold back, prompting the snake Friedman to declare that it was not General Powell who pulled India back, but it was General Electric.

Finally, the whole phoniness of the so called debate in US about snooping is a case study in Gobblesian propaganda and showmanship. Both the white-dominated pompous media and the white-dominated govt and security establishment feign their real feelings and speak in code words which both understand. The media honchos feign outrage about snooping on private citizens, secure in the knowledge that the "private citizens" are the wrong kind. The govt honchos in return put on an even glibber show assuring the "American people" that snooping was only done to protect them, meaning only the wrong kind of citizens were snooped on. Is it any wonder that vast majority of "American people" support the snooping and consider Snowden a traitor?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 04 Jul 2013 21:09

The main (and it seems the only) point of so many posts posted by CRamji in this dhaga, repeated endlessly, can be illustrated by just taking a random gem from the recent post:

CRamS wrote: <snip>
Then this [refusing Snowden's asylum by India] comical spectacle of the eunuchs in Delhi refusing Snowden's request.

Even a routine (and sensible) decision by people from a great civilization is called "a comical spectacle" in a great city like Delhi and is an excuse for throwing another gaali (eunuchs in Delhi!!)_!! This, of course, is beyond silly but not original, as you can see similar "non-comical" reaction by "self described non-eunuchs" (For example please do see this link) ) in one of thousands of commentaries by editors in Paki papers and demonstrators in those streets.

Make NO mistake, the above mentioned posts and the Paki demonstrations illustrate a singular theme - any action by Delhi (or Washington) is an excuse for them to throw another gaali ..as CRamji does here "eunuchs in Delhi:). ..Of course, one may talk "right to critique one's government" or pretend "doing analysis" but it does not fool any right thinking person... Just throw some gaalis first find excuses later.

So CRamji, I have a challenge for you, unless you can explain what is exactly "comical spectacle" by which "eunuchs in Delhi" you need to retract your statements and owe an apology here.

Regards.