Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

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Mort Walker
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote:There should be a post and a link to GB whitepaper somewhere on this dhaaga explaining the why. 41mp is not meant for providing users with 41mp images.
Well, there are these references from Digital Photography Review (DPR) that does a pretty good job:
1. http://connect.dpreview.com/post/438824 ... iew-review
2. http://www.dpreview.com/articles/808383 ... 8-pureview
3. http://connect.dpreview.com/post/638427 ... eview?news

Nokia didn't let them post samples yet, and they'll have a full review as well. Here's one from Brian Klug at AnandTech:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7142/some ... era-system
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

matrimc wrote:I know. Billu dada and his older sister were both millionaires even while somebody was changing their diapers. Granddad (maternal IIRC) was a wealthy lawyer.
Daddy was wealthy lawyers too. Billu went to Hairbird to study law onlee.
Mort Walker wrote:Fruit Co. makes the computing devices, running OS X of course, that many of us love and are committed to. They simply work for the consumer and that is all we're asking for.
If you like Fruit Co products buy 'em - what's stopping you? :-? Ditto for Takla, Mickey, Sammy, YellJee, Sony, Motor Oil, Chacha products. Each company has their target market. Successful companies make what makes sense to majority of their customers - one cannot satisfy everybody.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Lenses in stand alone cameras will offer 2-3 stops of image stabilization. That is a shot you take at 1/60s can be taken between 1/15s-1/30s. Anyway it will be interesting to see the Nokia Lumia 1020 in action. I'll get to try one from a friend.
Try it out and let me know your impressions. GB is following a non-traditional route to pack in P&S type photo shoot quality in a much smaller physical form factor - I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of that HW IP finds its way to other uses.
Will do.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote:If you like Fruit Co products buy 'em - what's stopping you? :-? Ditto for Takla, Mickey, Sammy, YellJee, Sony, Motor Oil, Chacha products. Each company has their target market. Successful companies make what makes sense to majority of their customers - one cannot satisfy everybody.
I do. In fact, this post is being written on a Mac. MSFT products are used because it is a necessary evil, not because people like them. It's like Alternating Current vs. Direct Current. The preference is DC, but we all have to use AC. :)
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Vayutuvan »

Some are AC DC :wink:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Mort Walker wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:If you like Fruit Co products buy 'em - what's stopping you? :-? Ditto for Takla, Mickey, Sammy, YellJee, Sony, Motor Oil, Chacha products. Each company has their target market. Successful companies make what makes sense to majority of their customers - one cannot satisfy everybody.
I do. In fact, this post is being written on a Mac. MSFT products are used because it is a necessary evil, not because people like them. It's like Alternating Current vs. Direct Current. The preference is DC, but we all have to use AC. :)
^^^for you perhaps. If that were the case for most people Mickey wouldn't be growing YoY for 30+ years. :P
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by SriniY »

Mort Walker wrote:
nachiket wrote:It's not just EDGE. LTE is also a huge battery hog.
It depends on how LTE is implemented. Long Term Evolution - LTE is industry jargon for the idea of using spread spectrum technology more efficiently. It is an open standard for CDMA and eventually all voice will be LTE as well. The problem is how power efficient is the chipset for the many frequencies used. There are physical and engineering limitations on this.
LTE is based on OFDM and is a completely different signalling methodology in comparison to CDMA. Its an evolution from the CDMA standard but it is not based on CDMA.

One of the reasons LTE is a huge battery hog is that the technology is fairly new and the algorithms and chipsets are not yet fully optimized. Several major features keep also keep getting added for each version of the standard and will keep doing so for the next couple of years at least. Also most LTE deployments operate on 10-20MHz bandwidth which is double that of the latest CDMA tech and hence also contributes to increased power consumption.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by SriniY »

Mort Walker wrote:The radio chipset must be physically capable of generating these frequencies along with an antenna tuned for it. The Nokia 920 has 1700/1900/2100 for HSPA+21 even though Nokia doesn't advertise it as such. The Nokia 808 does not have the right chipset for 1700 MHz downlink. It has yet to be announced, or at least I haven't heard it yet, which radio chipset is in the Nokia 1020. It may use the same one in the Nokia 920 or it may not. The reason manufacturers use a different chipset is for less power consumption. A chipset that will work on all frequencies is costly, uses more power (different VCO), and needs a different antenna lengths (more cost). They've got to keep the BOM costs down.
AFAIK most high end phones has 3 antennas, two supporting the cellular and lower WiFi bands, 800 - 2600 MHz and one antenna for the 5GHz band for WiFi as well.

Power consumption is not the only reason for using a different chipset. A low cost chipset will support less advanced receiver features and may be fabbed on an older process.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by habal »

buying a cheap chinese tablet or smart phone like micromax is a bad bad idea. Absolutely zilch service support on any of these brands. Once you have even a minor issue, you have had it. The chinese have moved on to selling the next model after 1028231 seconds and the dies have become obsolete and are in the smelter to produce the next set of dies. No spares or parts backup from any of these companies. In all kindness, they should be banned from selling stuff/dumping in India.

If you happen to need ASS, then Samsung & APple are the only players in town.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

SriniY wrote:LTE is based on OFDM and is a completely different signalling methodology in comparison to CDMA. Its an evolution from the CDMA standard but it is not based on CDMA.

One of the reasons LTE is a huge battery hog is that the technology is fairly new and the algorithms and chipsets are not yet fully optimized. Several major features keep also keep getting added for each version of the standard and will keep doing so for the next couple of years at least. Also most LTE deployments operate on 10-20MHz bandwidth which is double that of the latest CDMA tech and hence also contributes to increased power consumption.
Yes, you are correct. The idea is to use spread spectrum. From what I've seen the chipsets run about 6-12 months behind the latest SoC implementation, so that creates a situation where the SoC and the radio chipset can't be optimized at the same time. It is believed that is why Apple didn't implement LTE in earlier versions of the iPhone. AFAIK, in the US, LTE bandwidths are as low as 5 MHz. If we really had 10-20 MHz bandwidth for LTE in the US, the carriers would always have > 20 MBPS.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Dehko dehko. MOTO X PHONE
Image
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote:If that were the case for most people Mickey wouldn't be growing YoY for 30+ years. :P
Ho sak tha...In mean-e-while Surface doobra hai. MSFT cuts price of Surface RT Tablet
Can anyone say Z-U-N-E?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^Or perhaps the next gen is going to be launched like your favorite FruitCo does :P For Mickey Surface already became a billion dollar business some months ago and Surface PRO is what drives the sales - it ain't no Zune or Nexus Q for sure. Sorry Mortu tau par baat nahin bani :mrgreen:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by nachiket »

Actually this is what the price should have been all along. It's not a Zune but it was overpriced nonetheless.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Mort Walker wrote:Dehko dehko. MOTO X PHONE
Why would I buy this over a GS4? At least the camera looks pretty average. More and more consumers associate Android phones with Samsung - that does not bode well for the other manufacturers. Motor Oil had the window of opportunity literally handed to it by Chacha + VZW back in 2009 with the Droid - it failed to capitalize on it.

--

Samsung Galaxy S4 Zoom review: a messy marriage of smartphone and camera

:rotfl: Another example of Sammy copying blindly without thinking. GB came up with the same phunwa with optical zoom lens setup many years ago (2006 iirc?) and canned it after 1-2 years becoz it sucks from a portability, usability and reliability perspective and led to it doing R&D which has resulted in all the stuff which goes into PureView (oversampling, low light, OIS, HDR etc. etc.). Now Sammy comes along, copies the years old stuff and is claiming this is 'innovation'. :mrgreen: Can't expect anything else from a company whose culture only encourages following orders from upper management suits rather than innovating at the chaprasi level.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Or perhaps the next gen is going to be launched like your favorite FruitCo does :P For Mickey Surface already became a billion dollar business some months ago and Surface PRO is what drives the sales - it ain't no Zune or Nexus Q for sure. Sorry Mortu tau par baat nahin bani :mrgreen:
I'm waiting for the Surface Pro to come down to $299 by XMAS, then I'll get one. :mrgreen:

On a side note. I have to get a Windows laptop for one of my children for college purposes, and I'll get him/her an MBA and install Windows 7 on it. I need a reliable Windows laptop, and that will be it. :) Why is it that every Ultrabook that isn't a turd is priced over $1500?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^I doubt they can bring down the current Surface PRO to that price point given it has an a regular laptop processor from ChipZ. The ChromeBook Pixel's ridiculous price point proves that at that level you cannot bring down the BOM much.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Likin aap ne bola ke Surface ne sau crore bijness bana liya hai? Uske baad, profit-e-profit hai. :) $299 meh kuch nahi bigra.
ChromeBook paagal paan hai.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

^Arrey BOM for Surface PRO $299 se zyada hai, kyon loss me bechengay unless inventory clear karna hai before next release?

Recently one of the anal-e-cysts released numbers that ChromeBook sales comprise of 25-30% of the sub-$300 laptop market. The natural question arises, who is selling the rest of the 70-75% coz Windows laptops are pretty much all north of $300.-, FruitCo doesn't descend to those levels and netbooks are dead.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by SaiK »

imho, all smartphones must handle SDXC cards. It is a scam to keep info on the cloud services.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by vina »

Raja Bose wrote:^^^for you perhaps. If that were the case for most people Mickey wouldn't be growing YoY for 30+ years. :P
That has to do with switching costs and large economies of scale due to network effects together leading to captive customers (that is fund-a-mental YumBeeYea giri, the wet dream that every strat-e-jee wants to acheive by design, but is incredibly difficult to achieve , but happens more by default) .

The way to break out of that dead lock is to innovate in brand new areas (outside the incumbent's franchise) disruptively where the incumbent doesn't have those exit and entry barriers (think iPod, iPhunwa, etc) and the giant is lumbering and flat footed (Zune, Surface etc).
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Singha »

Nokia, please stop! plea on techcrunch
http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/11/nokia-please-stop/
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Singha wrote:Nokia, please stop! plea on techcrunch
http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/11/nokia-please-stop/
Techcrunch is really plumbing the depths of idiocy after the whole Arrington fiasco. :rotfl:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by nachiket »

Faking News: New Nokia DSLR has voice calling facility. :rotfl:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by negi »

Raja Bose wrote:
Singha wrote:Nokia, please stop! plea on techcrunch
http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/11/nokia-please-stop/
Techcrunch is really plumbing the depths of idiocy after the whole Arrington fiasco. :rotfl:
Comment section mein launde ka literally r@pe hui gawa . :oops: :mrgreen:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by krishnan »

either they disabled comments or some problem with my browser
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

As usual anal-e-cysts and various tech blogs missed the forest for the trees while going ape on the Mickey re-org....looking at it a little carefully will indicate the flavor of things to come....lets see if they eventually get clued in. :mrgreen:

I remember some commentaries on some tech blogs (and also previously on this dhaaga), "why doesn't XYZ company keep doing what it does best and leave the rest to others?". The answer to that is simple: Because following that strat-e-jee is a sure shot way to die even if you currently have setup high barriers of entry for the competition. One may not be able to enter your fortress directly but one day the world will bypass it and then you will be left high and dry up $hit creek without a paddle. Sammy understands that very well, Mickey understands that, Takla understands that, FruitCo used to understand that but under Bawarchi its a question mark and Chacha perhaps understands that but they need to execute, FB is too young to understand that. The goal is always to move up the value chain. That is one reason why the most successful HW device onlee companies will not remain HW device onlee companies.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^I am talking specifically in context of cos. which makes products for end consumers.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by vina »

Ah.. This dhaga has now gone to YumBeeYea giri from Phunwa and Gizmo giri. So ..
Raja Bose wrote: Because following that strat-e-jee is a sure shot way to die even if you currently have setup high barriers of entry for the competition. One may not be able to enter your fortress directly but one day the world will bypass it and then you will be left high and dry up $hit creek without a paddle.
Trouble with that is the virgin new areas are a wild wild west with intense competition (usually) and success is in no way guaranteed , takes a lot of investment , effort, execution and plain old luck . Also, these games might not have a first mover advantage (if there are no natural entry barriers), but rather the later entrants might have a significant advantage from the learning and experience curve of the first mover!

Also, while your incumbent business with strong franchise and entry barriers and captive customers keeps the cash counter going ka-ching , ka-ching and puts the food on the table (think the Windows and Office franchises in Mickey), the"new initiatives" might not bring a dime and on the contrary might be a bottomless pit (think MSN earlier competing with AOL, Xbox, Zune, Bing , the entire online services part of Mickey and the latest being the Surface.. all cumulatively losing a breathtaking amount of billions over the past two decades). Any other company without the strong franchise that Mickey has (came about solely by default not by design mind you), would have folded up it's dhotis and GUBOed long ago.
Sammy understands that very well, Mickey understands that, Takla understands that, FruitCo used to understand that but under Bawarchi its a question mark and Chacha perhaps understands that but they need to execute, FB is too young to understand that.
Ah, that is only if you want to be immortal! A Mrityunjaya! A Chiranjeevi! If you are "human" and accept that companies like people go through a life cycle phase (infancy, growth (taking in resources in the 1st two) and then middle age (a massive cash cow in this phase) and finally old age and death ), you needn't be bothered too much. So what you really should do in my opinion is to live for the here and now, be bohemian and live well and live king size!

It has been extremely rare for any company in any industry to survive a "generational" shift in it's business , however big and successful they might have been earlier. Bill Gates understands that extremely well and has commented multiple times on that (his comments on IBM.. for eg, there was an IBM before I was born, and there will be one even after I am gone)..
The goal is always to move up the value chain. That is one reason why the most successful HW device onlee companies will not remain HW device onlee companies.
Ah , but no. The "Value Chain" without reference to fund-a-mental competitive advantage is bogus . You can survive, make money, thrive and grow only if you have a sustainable competitive advantage. Whether you are high in the value chain or low doesn't matter. For eg, between a Wal Mart and a Burberry, which has a more sustainable and profitable business model ?

For an egg-sample at the heart of the IT/Vity industry, let me quote a well known one. The greatest and most profitable franchise of all time , Instant Banana Mousse. See, for 60 years (until the early 90s), it was simply the untouchable behemoth, with massive lock and impenetrable franchise in every area of computing, with everything protected with iron clad patents for having invented pretty much everything that needed to be invented (think memory (core , disk, tape), processor, networking, clustering, virtual machines , databases..everything..), but even that behemoth couldn't survive the industry shift , that it itself created (for eg, it was instrumental in getting Chipzilla and Mickey to where they are now.. oh.. this PC business invented by Fruit is a toy , with a market size of at most 30,000 units and the total profits is less than what we would make from selling one mainframe.. so let us not bother with it, but get an el cheapo chip and an OS from some pipsqueaks and have an offering)..or RISC (oh.. what is the point.. we have such a giant franchise.. why do it at all, HP and Sun and SillyCon Graphics said thanks and ran with it) or databases (why relational, we have such brilliant franchises in network and heirarchical.. Larry Ellison said thanks and ran away with Oracle), same story in networking with Netzilla.

And finally where does the storied hardware and software company find it's franchise after all these years ? The high margin areas in processors ? maybe networking ? software ? hardware ?.. It took a great strat-e-gist, Lou Gerstner , a classic YumBeeYea, with ZERO tech background (he came from RJR Nabisco, a biskoot maker and P&G and Muck 'n See) to point them to a great franchise (the then ISSC was basically their network and hardware servicing division fundamentally back then) and bet the farm on that and Instant Banana survived and thrived.. Compare that with Hickory Pork and Sun (set) and see what happened to them!

The Instant Banana case shows that point clearly... your salvation might not necessarily be in the jazzy 60% gross margin Netzilla world, but in a 'umble 11% gross margin code coolie world!

Welcome to the new world. :( :(
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^Even before I read the last couple of pages of this dhaaga, I was thinking of IBM. In the 1960s everyone was saying buy IBM.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

vina wrote:Ah.. This dhaga has now gone to YumBeeYea giri from Phunwa and Gizmo giri. So ..
Biziness mein dono ek hi baap ke do haraami aulaad hain! :mrgreen:
vina wrote: Trouble with that is the virgin new areas are a wild wild west with intense competition (usually) and success is in no way guaranteed , takes a lot of investment , effort, execution and plain old luck . Also, these games might not have a first mover advantage (if there are no natural entry barriers), but rather the later entrants might have a significant advantage from the learning and experience curve of the first mover!
That is why you do it when your mush is protected with steady cash flow from other boring stuff not when you are gasping for air with patloon in tatters. That's what Mickey did with XBox and Azure and it pays them pretty rich dividends now. Surface is a profitable business for Mickey and had no impact till now on pissing off its partners except getting them to scramble and bring out proper products instead of turd - this is what most anal-e-cysts forget. But if you stay put happy in your status quo (Windoze, Apphice) - you will be dead, period. This is a credit which is due to Uncle Fester and not Billu Dada. BTW it has nothing to do with being the 1st mover in the market - RandDee takes times and even if your RandDee started earlier it doesn't mean you will be the first to market. Whether to be the first mover or not depends a lot on the product. iPhunwa is an example of a good first mover mass market product. Google Glass is not.
vina wrote: Ah, that is only if you want to be immortal! A Mrityunjaya! A Chiranjeevi! If you are "human" and accept that companies like people go through a life cycle phase (infancy, growth (taking in resources in the 1st two) and then middle age (a massive cash cow in this phase) and finally old age and death ), you needn't be bothered too much. So what you really should do in my opinion is to live for the here and now, be bohemian and live well and live king size!
Which company doesn't want to be immortal?? In fact if some company CEO came up during a shareholder meeting and said, my company has lived a long life and now it will take sanyaas and die quietly, would your YumBeeAye types on Wall Street spare that company and say "Oh they have given us so much returns, they deserve a quiet retirement and death"??? :mrgreen: Look at what the Street dalals are doing to FruitCo - the apple of their eye :P
vina wrote: Ah , but no. The "Value Chain" without reference to fund-a-mental competitive advantage is bogus . You can survive, make money, thrive and grow only if you have a sustainable competitive advantage. Whether you are high in the value chain or low doesn't matter. For eg, between a Wal Mart and a Burberry, which has a more sustainable and profitable business model ?
Perhaps value chain is the wrong word in this context but me no YumBeeAye. :P What I meant is the goal is to move up the ladder in terms of how do you add more value for the end-customer while maximizing RoI and minimizing risk. Right now in CE devices, HW onlee vendors are right at the bottom of the ladder whereas service vendors are at the top int his context. That is why GB and now Sammy are trying to claw up the ladder and pushing their own services. Platform vendors like Chacha and Mickey would be happiest if the HW onlee vendors remain within their aukaad and don't do such antics but for these vendors it is a matter of life or death. Otherwise they will be relegated to getting buffeted by swells like poor HTC.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Anujan »

M$ seem to have a serious case of FruitCo envy. All coming chunkiyan-ness apart, the only good thing in the reorg is that selling stuff to customers and accounting for it has been moved to a separate department. Earlier the units would fight in a pissing contest to see which division had more revenue and were profitable. Now hopefully they would collaborate. Also is useful in hiding how much moolah the online services division is hemorrhaging. Should shut up the irritating (internally I believe) articles from anal-yeasts urging M$ to sell off Bing. I am not sure if moolah reporting can be changed quickly by this quarter. Might require some form of regulatory approval. From next quarter would be interesting to see if their reporting changes.

I personally think M$ over-reacted. Windows installs are declining. They could have tided over that by moving over to a services model earlier. But they fought tooth and nail against it. First by killing off Netscape and then by fighting hard against Java. (Imagine OS doesnt matter anymore because your apps run everywhere. Who would buy windows). Finally it is the internet and the browser that did them in. Now that they are a bit late in the services game, they want to sell some hardware to make up for it (wrapped up in TFTA-like tight integrashun onlee talking point). Yes Surface is profitable, but what is the opportunity cost? How many hardware OEMs would now try to make a windows tablet, and if they hesitate, what about the market penetration? Tablet space is not going to be like PC, M$ would face pressure from the low end from Android and high end from FruitCo. Yes "runs office" is a selling point, but running office is not the reason people buy an iPhone. Earlier it used to be the case that the same OS used for productivity is also used for entertainment, but now it is not the case. And as iPhone and iPad has demonstrated, using a tablet/phone for entertainment has a huge marketshare and profits.

I think they learned the wrong lesson from FruitCo.

FruitCo flushed windows mobile down the Pakistan not because hardware partners were churning out bad hardware. It was because windows mobile was a steaming pile of crap. On top of it, it had no services. The browser was a joke, email was a hit or miss (requiring complicated exchange forwarding and stuff, I even paid for for some time. Email would get forwarded from geemale to an exchange service provider, which would sync to my phone), maps was non-existant, there was no decent app store, music store, video player or ebook store. Same thing with this nandi droppings called "Plays for sure" that they dished out to make music players. The problem was that the music store was a joke, the software to sync music would cause people to faint. Not because the hardware was crap. Well hardware was crap too, but remember that not only was M$ kicked out of the iPod touch market, their partners had nothing to show in the iPod nano or shuffle market.

Remember Zune anyone? Its integration was tight like a Paki's musharraf. The UI was innovative, the hardware was gorgeous. They even gave their VP a haircuit, a nice shave, some weight reduction and good clothes. It had FM radio. Why did it fail? The zune desktop software was crap, sync was a nightmare. On top of it, there was a separate zune media player sync thingie and a separate windows media player sync thingie. You couldnt edit metadata properly. If you edited metadata in windows media player while listening to it on the desktop, it would somehow f-up the metadata in zune.

So what was the lesson there? That the HW/SW integration was not as tight so M$ needs to make hardware or M$ did not see this whole services and ecosystem thing properly?

If anything good comes out of this re-org it would be because now divisions are forced to think about how many people are using their products (and not how much money they are making) which means they would churn out better products and services.

I am not sure any far sighted chunkian-ness about integration would be the reason.

The problem facing M$ is simple. There is a lot of money to be made from consumers -- remember that M$ is an enterprise focussed company. And M$ does not have cool products or the brand image to sell to consumers like FruitCo. Their enterprise business is still fine, office, servers & tools are making profits. Many businesses are still in XP and will move generating more revenue. Remember that businesses change more slowly than consumers do. So they can still run with the momentum for a few years.
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Singha
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Singha »

I was was watching a slide deck on openstack topic. There are around 3 strong cos left in each of cpu, networking, storage,database,management, security,optical interfaces....most cos are trying to add something usually sw on top of the brick n mortar earthworks of these trios of cos in each area...or providing some service or add on in the food chain of these trex like fabs do the fab work, or contract electronic makers make and test the boards to order, or foxconn who does everything for everyone.

Its a very difficult proposition for startups or smaller players to gain market share in these infrastructure areas. The costs involved are astonishing in physics and electronics design and fabrication, plus inevitable respins when hw errors are detected. Without deep pockets nobody stands a real chance.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Anujan »

vina wrote:It took a great strat-e-gist, Lou Gerstner , a classic YumBeeYea, with ZERO tech background (he came from RJR Nabisco, a biskoot maker and P&G and Muck 'n See) to point them to a great franchise (the then ISSC was basically their network and hardware servicing division fundamentally back then) and bet the farm on that and Instant Banana survived and thrived.. Compare that with Hickory Pork and Sun (set) and see what happened to them!
The guy who led IBM to ruin, John Fellows Akers, was no techie either. He was from Sales division in IBM. And I will tell you what happened to Hickory Pork. The classic YumBeeYea like Carly Fiorina happened to it :mrgreen: . She sold off Agilent and bought Compaq when FruitCo was busy developing the iPhone and iPad. HP's PC division now has 3% margin and falling. They dont have a decent tablet or a phone. Nice job that! for a CEO to not see making and selling PCs is a doomed business. She could have atleast got a clue from IBM which sold off lenovo at about the same time. She was fit to become the CEO of coca-cola, with the classic strategy of buying out the competition and optimizing supply chain. Thats what she attempted with Compaq merger. Except this works only if the underlying product is profitable and people still want to buy it :P

And Sun (set?). Well, Its CEO Jonathan Schwartz could not make the company shift, even though the writing on the wall was that Sun could not compete with Linux installs on commodity PCs. They had no services game or properties like IBM. They did not have a hugely profitable printer division like HP. They sold computers -- competition was selling computers more cheaply with the same software. And where was Jonathan Schwartz from? McKinsey 8) . The YumBeeYae strategist of strategists. As an aside, Sun was tightly integrated like a Paki's musharraf too. They made their own chips, their own computers, their own OS, even invented their own language. Something M$ is trying to do and FruitCo is doing. So tight integration is no recipe for success either.

If you are hinting that not knowing tech and somehow "strategizing" is what will save tech companies, I find it hard to believe. I would actually find it surprising that someone who doesnt understand a company's products or the process by which those products are produced would make a good CEO. In Tech industry where the cycles are short, it needs an understanding of tech. That doesnt mean an engineering degree (Mahdi or Billu didnt have one), but it does require an understanding of where the industry is going and what is possible.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Singha »

chipz and netz have the advantage of having a lot of VP/EVPs who are 15-20 yr internal veterans or ex-founders of acquisitions folded in.

neither will accept a ex-mckinsey/deloitte "uber consultant" into CEOs role.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by negi »

Arrey it's very simple onlee; see first half of the 20th century was the golden period in science majority of pathbreaking discoveries and findings in pure sciences happened during this period , the atom model itself was re-visited so many times in that period and the quantum mechanical model was proposed and this too happened in the first half of the 20th century, since then not much has changed or been discovered in these areas at the fundamental level even the much elusive and talked about Higgs boson was theorized in 1960s itself (much before most of us here were born).

My point being likes of IBM, Chipz , MckySoft and Netz were the pioneers in their respective fields and they have already done much of the heavy lifting , the newer players do not need to work on brick and mortar side of things just like it is practically impossible for anyone outside of the likes of Boeing or Airbus to break into wide-body airliner market it's impossible for anyone to compete with likes of Netz and Chips on their turf (Mickey does not have HW they are at disadvantage on that fornt), now if some new technology on the horizon changes the rules of engagement and former don't see that coming things could be different.

Look at the world of big data and analytics suddenly in last year or two we hear a lot about map reduce , push down optimization and what not. Google chaps did that ages ago and yet we have cos like Cloudera, Hortonworks or even EMC coming out with their own flavour of Hadoop and marketing it as if it were some completely new concept.
Last edited by negi on 14 Jul 2013 10:40, edited 1 time in total.
Anujan
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Anujan »

Think about this this way: Considering windows and office alone, M$ makes about $75-$80 per pc shipped. Tablets are overtaking PC shipments and I believe smartphones already did so for a couple of years now. So far M$ has very little to show in the tablet and smartphone market.

If you consider the fact that PC shipments are declining, M$ needs to make up for it by profiting from Tablets and/or smartphones. I am not sure OEMs will pay $50 per smartphone or tablet for windows licensing, especially when Android is free. On top of it, customers should be willing to pay ~$30 for office on those windows tablets. Well they can sell office for iPad and Android, but that only means that they lose out on windows licensing. That is a pretty bad place to be in. And if they did allow office on iPad/Android, the crap that is windows RT has no justification to live. Its only current claim to fame is "runs office". Atleas windows RT can be written off once they release office for Android/iOS. And to add insult to injury, FruitCo will take a 30% cut of Office price (their standard App store policy). Not sure what Chacha's policy is in this regard.

So now either they have to make sure that their tablet/smartphone licensing even at a smaller level (say $30) in volume makes up for PC shipment decline, or they should take a slice of the hardware profits pie so they make > $80 per unit sold. This whole "Tight integration" is a canard. They need the hardware profits to keep the per-unit profits high. Just betting that windows will capture a larger fraction of the tablet and smartphone space to offset PC sales decline *and* the reduced licensing cost will be made up by rapid increase in shipments is a dangerous bet. Especially when they are late to the tablet/Phone game. If the numbers dont add up, revenues for windows and office division will decline.

They could try doing other things: Like do an Amazon web services clone and look for new enterprise revenue streams (they are doing that), they could move to subscription model for office, which jacks up the price by going to a yearly subscription model (doing that). Roll out new hardware/software/services to consumers beyond windows/office. Probably doing that. What will be interesting to see is that if PC shipments decline to 50% of now, say to 200-150 million -- which is possible in 4 years if the current rate of ~10% decline holds, they would have to ship many millions of tablets to make up for it. That needs someone like bawarchi to do the supply chain and someone to iterate on products like Mahdi. Lets see if it happens.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by hanumadu »

Much of the decline of SUN happened during Scott McNealy's regime. Jonathan Schwartz was a hail mary pass.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Anujan »

^^^
YumBeeYae too :mrgreen:
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