Religion Thread - 9

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Apr 2007 21:31

Rakesh wrote:Cause people in India believe they are above the law or the law does not apply to them. When will we ever learn!

please exclude me.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 04 Apr 2007 21:33

Hindusim = Freedom of thought. (JMO)

This should be an easy to sell commodity anywhere on planet earth. I had alluded to the same as having higher importance than mere freedom of speech. It is already part of the preamble to the constitution that was posted earlier, so can be used to beat every one else who says faith is supreme and a fundamental right like individual rights. In reality freedom of faith is just a collective right to practice and propagate culture or cult. Freedom of thought is a very individual right which does not impinge on others right as it is restricted to the mind and protects it.

Bonus: It can be applied against all types of EJs.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 04 Apr 2007 21:34

Raju!

Dixie Gurudwara is definetely controlled by Jats from Jalandhar/Hoshiarpur area (Doaba Area), . Huge majority of Sikhs in Canada, USA, UK are Jats from Doaba.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Apr 2007 21:35

SaiK wrote:Under Hinduism, no such path breaking efforts or enable revolutionary Einsteins and more such scientists 'cause ?... I think, its basically due to not continuing on what was left of as Vedic Science and Math, and we slept with it for 5000 or more years.. in the glory of its past heritage.. and that does'nt help.

St Thomas Christians in India are a victim of this same problem - reminscing on the glory of their past heritage, when they should be looking ahead into the future. These churches badly need reform as large numbers of them don't even have a clue of what they are doing in church in the first place! This is a problem that occurs, when all we harp on is our rich history.

I have a Hindu friend who lives in North America, who once told me (good example of what I just said) that he does not see the reason why he goes to temple. His exact words were, "Bunch of old farts singing some jibberish and then they expect us youth to understand. There is nothing spiritual about it." There are Malayalee Christians (especially the youth) who feel the *exact* same way. Some stop going completely and the institution that their parents fought so hard to create, will soon disappear or will be forced to change to the collective will of what people define to be spiritual. I don't know whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Apr 2007 21:37

Raju wrote:Sandeep, who controls the Dixie Gurudwara ??

This much I know about the Dixie Gurdwara, that it gets Cdn $100,000 in donations monthly. That is just from matha thek (I hope I spelt that right) alone! SBajwa may know better.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Apr 2007 21:40

Raju: This is the Dixie Gurdwara website --> http://www.ontariokhalsadarbar.ca/

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 04 Apr 2007 21:41

Rakesh wrote:Cause people in India believe they are above the law or the law does not apply to them. When will we ever learn!

We like the law if the law works 'for' us. However there is substantial social insecurity in India esp among minority as well as lack of integration with society. This is due to the adverse role of the local law enforcement during riots against Sikhs in 84 and ltr a few notable instances against muslim.

But this is now slowly changing, but all groups should feel secure enough to believe law will 'protect' them and work 'for' them.

This feeling of insecurity is misconstrued as being 'above the law' in most cases and politicians w/vested interests twist this feeling to fuel fire amongst a disgruntled majority. Give 10 yrs time, with present rate of social development we will have a more integrated society and people of all sections secure enough to trust the law.

we musn't rock the boat until then. JMT's[/quote]

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Apr 2007 21:41

BTW, DPA reports:

Pope quotes Marx in his new book on Jesus

Vatican City:Pope Benedict XVI draws from Karl Marx's theory of alienation in his forthcoming book on Jesus Christ to illustrate his point that the biblical parable of the Good Samaritan is still relevant today.

The reference to the 19th-Century German philosopher and founder of modern communism is found in chapter seven of "Jesus of Nazareth", extracts of which were published Wednesday by Italian daily Corriere della Sera.

"Karl Marx describes man's alienation in a drastic way; although by limiting his reasoning to the material sphere he fails to reach the true depths of alienation, he nevertheless provides a clear image of the man who falls victim to the robbers," Joseph Ratzinger writes.

In his book, the pope sees the biblical account of the Samaritan who rescues and cares for a stranger who has been robbed and beaten while on his way to Jericho as a metaphor that should teach modern day Catholics to care for their neighbours, whether they are a drug addict or an African whose country has been "looted and robbed" by colonialists.

"Is it not true that man ... during the full course of his history, finds himself alienated, mangled, abused?" the pope writes.

The book, his first since his election as pope two years ago, is due to be published April 16, the day of his 80th birthday, in Italian, German and Polish.

--DPA

Vasudeva Kutumbam?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Apr 2007 21:43

Rakesh, its bad indeed.. people are social creatures, and would jump at anything to associate with that is better feeling, or proud to be with.. or some value that makes them feel modern etc..

Its the problem of providing the structure for the people to advance on.. When Hindus are ready to contemplate to protect by associating its vedic thoughts with modern physics and relativity, and m-theory... why not develop vedic science and math as university subjects, that are channels to more discovery.

may be there is something else that is wrong.. some core concepts so good can't go haywire like this.. and its not that people in India are that duds to not to capitalize on this.

perhaps, the oppression in India was more severe than the church system, and hence, such a state of its heritage.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 04 Apr 2007 21:43

Look at the list of election candidates for Dixie Gurdwara (all Jutts)

http://www.ontariokhalsadarbar.ca/elect.html

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 04 Apr 2007 21:49

This feeling of insecurity is misconstrued as being 'above the law' in most cases and politicians w/vested interests twist this feeling to fuel fire amongst a disgruntled majority. Give 10 yrs time, with present rate of social development we will have a more integrated society and people of all sections secure enough to trust the law

We did had few successes in last couple of years.

JMM MP that killed his secretary got convicted.
Haryana's minister's son who killed a bar girl in Delhi.
etc..

but we need now to do

1. Convict Salman Khan for killing 4 in Bombay.

2. Convict Promod Mahajan's son for drugs.

3. That arms dealer (Nanda) whose drunk son in his mercedes ran over 6-7 people in Delhi., needs to be put behind bar.

4. Well Connected TV reporter who killed his wife.

and many more like these

High profile cases need to resolved at the earliest.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 04 Apr 2007 21:49

Sandeep, does Dixie Gurudwara have any special relationship with Damdami taksal ??

And what is the taksal inclination today ?

thanks in adv

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Apr 2007 21:51

SBajwa wrote:Dixie Gurudwara is definetely controlled by Jats from Jalandhar/Hoshiarpur area (Doaba Area), . Huge majority of Sikhs in Canada, USA, UK are Jats from Doaba.

Sandeep when I last visited Dixie Gurdwara in the mid-90s, they had pictures of martyred individuals in the basement, who died for the cause of Khalistan. Do they still have them? I found that quite intriguing.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 04 Apr 2007 21:54

Why is it that you have "sankocha" ( by the way, it IS a Sanskrit word used in other languages and not merely Kannada, and roughly translates in English to 'hesitation' )

OT but sankocha translates better as 'inhibition'.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 04 Apr 2007 21:55

Sandeep, does Dixie Gurudwara have any special relationship with Damdami taksal ??

NO! not like the days of 1980s! Damdami Taksal at Chowk Mehta is not involved in active politics anymore (does not look like from media). They are mostly trainers of Granthis (Sikh history how to read and sing bani).

Gurudwara might have a Granthi that was trained either at Damdami Taksal or various Sikh missionary colleges (run by SGPC). Damdami taksal is not part of SGPC.

The website is http://www.damdamitaksal.com/

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Apr 2007 22:42

S.Valkan wrote: Why is it that you have "sankocha" ( by the way, it IS a Sanskrit word used in other languages and not merely Kannada, and roughly translates in English to 'hesitation' ) is stating that Hinduism can't be pinned down with ONE catchphrase ?

Very few Hindus I know are able to do it.

Drop Hinduism for a minute (or longer)

Think of a *product* that needs selling.

It is for that reason that Hinduism needs to be dumbed down (if need be) and "graspable" with one word.

Never mind our history or the history of the world. Look at where we are today, a world of images, buzzwords and short attention span.

The depth of Hinduism will always be there for those who look for it, but if Hindus are going to catch any new attention - it needs dumbing down without removing its essence.

Islam=peace is a deceitful description of Islam that could not be further from the truth.

A Hindus who meets anyone should be able to summarize things in a short catchphrase.

That is what I am getting at. As I indicated in my original post, purists may not like it - but basically - as a salesman or adman looking for saleability in a world in which Hinduism is threatened I don't give a damn about what purists think. If they had done their sales job well - Hinduism may not have been under threat.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 04 Apr 2007 22:49

That is what I am getting at. As I indicated in my original post, purists may not like it - but basically - as a salesman or adman looking for saleability in a world in which Hinduism is threatened I don't give a damn about what purists think. If they had done their sales job well - Hinduism may not have been under threat.

hallelujah !

I kept harping on this in thread 7. Alok and Valcan thought that I was denigrating or did not care about the advaita and other high funda stuff. I put myself in the shoes of my customers and there is a snoflake's chance in hell (

) of an average Hindu understanding or even caring about that stuff. But in spite of that the faith of an average Hindu has remained inviolate - through the observance of rituals. So why not market the sanctity and rapture of the rituals itself? Catchword?
Hinduism - Faith

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 04 Apr 2007 22:58

I have an observation to state:

there is a tendency among Hindus organizations and a few individuals to appropriate followers of all religions in India as being 'Hindu' at some time in the past. This might very well be 100% true, but bring about certain complications.

Now instead of comforting minorities, it seems many of them rebel/repel such suggestions and show discomfort.

I believe this tendency needs to stop.

We say the pakis were hindus, the sikhs were hindus, most muslims were hindus, Christians were hindus. I have seen some proud members of these communities who otherwise might be perfectly good citizens of the country fight shy at such connections.

On fora that I visit, there are also members, who also might be extremists fight against any such associations with hindu. Esp noted in Paki fora.

This tendency needs to stop. The explanations are rather subtle.

For entry into any organisation, there needs to be *price for entry*. Nobody must sell themselves cheap.

Consider this akin to entry to a high club, elite neighbourhood etc. This will make the entrant feel proud to be a part of the community.

Let us not sell ourselves cheap, let us set a high entry price.

Plz consider this along with shiv's *product* branding.

bhool chook maaf ! jmvht

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Apr 2007 23:00

Islam may be peace, but not I-Slam! everything on my way!.

Hinduism may be everything, but Hind-you-ism is making it egregiously sectarian.

Christianity may be love, but the christ-I-'anity' rhymes and dines with all things evil.

Science is more pure and better than all these human games.

==
tauba! tauba!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Apr 2007 23:10

Alok_N
BRFite

Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 5421
Location: Hidden Gauge Sector

PostPosted: 04 Apr 2007 04:11 am Post subject: Reply with quote
in case some of you are slow to catch on ...

Ganja has been smoked freely in India for at least the last 5,000 years except for the last 25 years or so ...

Who The F does GOI represent?

Lot of Hindu practices are being under the watch of Govt and social changes are being done by the govt to change it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Apr 2007 23:13

While we are worrying about EJs and IJs let us acknowledge the contribution of the early Christian fathers in spreading the printing press in colonial India.

From Hindu Sunday magazine. Could be in Book Review and/or March of a Nation thread

Link: From Palm Leaves to Printed Word

I wish someone chronicles the next stage of the internet in India.

MILESTONE

From palm leaves to the printed word

BABU K. VERGHESE

The history of the printing press in India is the history of the re-awakening of a nation.

PHOTO: S. MAHINSHA

Instrument of change: A press commonly used in India in the 19th century.

THE pioneering history of printing in India is inspiring as we celebrate its 450th anniversary this year. In October, India had the unique privilege of being the "Guest of Honour" at the Frankfurt World Book Fair. And we were the only country to be conferred this honour twice, in a span of 20 years, in 1986 and 2006. There are an estimated 16,000 publishers in India, producing about 70,000 titles every year. The annual turnover of the industry is estimated at Rs.700 crores. A good 40 per cent of the titles are in English, making India the largest producer of books in the English language after the United Kingdom and the United States.

The pioneers

But, how did we reach this position? One reason is that traditionally and culturally, India was open to new ideas, whether from Babylon or from the Bible. It was Christian missionaries, who wanted to produce the Bible in the several languages of the country, who introduced printing and publishing in India. In fact, we got the first printing press as a happy accident: As early as 1542, Francis Xavier, a Spaniard, was teaching the Bible in Tharangambadi (Tranquebar), Tamil Nadu. Also, when the Viceroy of Goa, on behalf of King Joan III of Portugal, opened schools for Indians, books had to be provided. Thus, pressure was put on Portugal by Francis Xavier to dispatch printing presses to India, Ethiopia and Japan. Meanwhile, the Emperor of Abyssinia (Ethiopia) requested the king of Portugal to send a press along with the missionaries. Thus the first batch of Jesuit missionaries left for Ethiopia on March 29, 1556. En route, they arrived in Goa on September 6, 1556. But, while they were preparing to proceed to Ethiopia, news reached them that the Ethiopian Emperor was not keen to receive the missionaries. Thus, as luck would have it, the press stayed in Goa and was set up at the College of St. Paul in Goa. Today, the huge arch of the St. Paul's College gate, restored by the Archaeological Survey of India, stands as a witness to this pioneering effort.

First printed work

The first literature ever printed in India was released on November 6, 1556. The rest is history. The missionaries established a number of printing presses in many parts of India, triggering a language and literature revolution.

The history of printing in India is the story of the re-awakening of a nation. No wonder, when B.S. Kesavan wrote the three-volume comprehensive History of Printing and Publishing in India, published by National Book Trust (1985), he sub-titled it as "A Story of Cultural Re-awakening". In his words: "The history of printing starts with the rehearsal of Evangelist efforts â€” Catholic and Protestant. Fifty-nine years after the landing of Vasco da Gama in India, the printing press opened its account at Goa, a few decades after the beginning of the 16th century. Within a hundred years of the printing of Gutenberg's Bible in Germany, India initiated its groping towards fashioning of types for the many Indian languages."

The story of printing is not merely a matter of what was printed when, but how the Gutenberg invention proved a handmaid to the cultural uplift of the nation. In literature, spanning all its genres, in art, in music, in folklore, in language and rhetoric, how did printing expand the intellectual horizons in the country? How did printing achieve this in the sciences, in philosophy, in the social sciences, and various other disciplines? Points out Kesavan: "The promethean effort of bringing knowledge from exclusive palm-leaves and other manuscripts into the houses of ordinary people, and familiarise them with their cultural heritage, is an aspect of this history in every Indian language. How printing has served tradition, and also challenged tradition, is a very exciting story. Printing has no political, social or religious barriers, and is a mode of broadcasting ideas adopted by all shades of opinion".

If the location of the earliest printing presses in India were plotted on the map, it will be found that they were all located along the coastline of peninsular India. Goa, Cochin, Punnaikkyal (near Kanyakumari), Vypicottai (near Kodungalloor), and Amblakkadu (near Thrissur), were the places along the west coast. Tharangambadi (Tranquebar), Madras, Fort William, Calcutta and Serampore along the east coast represent the shaping of Indian printing. Bombay contributed its share towards the second phase of the vigorous growth of early Indian printing. Roman priests of the Catholic Missions and the Protestant Missions from Europe fathered and furthered this impulse in their anxiety to translate the Bible and thus spread the Word of God.

Boost to literature

The start of printing in Goa, spread along the southern coast and its attainment of maturity at Tharangambadi and Madras has been described as the dawn of printing in India, but the sunrise in all its brilliance was when William Carey set foot in India on November 11, 1793. The Bengali alphabet in movable type followed a long time after the Tamil alphabet had been devised in movable type. The Serampore Mission of Carey was a pioneer in this respect, helped by William Ward and Joshua Marshmann, establishing a press in Serampore in 1800. Two able Indians, Panchanan Karmakar and Manohar helped in casting the types, publishing in 40 Indian languages, for the first time. Carey also set up the first paper making factory and the first foundry in India.

Nathan Brown, Oliver Cutter and Miles Bronson, all missionaries, established a press in Sadiya, Assam in 1838, bringing a literary revolution in several Northeastern languages. The Surat Mission Press was set up in 1820 by William Fyvie, the first in Gujarat, publishing in Gujarati. The Wesleyan Mission Press, established in 1820, and the Basel Mission press set up in 1840, boosted Kannada publishing. The CMS Press established by Benjamin Bailey in Kottayam in 1821 and the Basel Press by Hermann Gundert in Thalassery in 1838 revolutionised Malayalam publishing.

The Society for the Promotion of Christian Knowledge (SPCK) established a press in Tharangambai (Tranquebar) in 1713. Many missionaries, including Ziegenbalg, Schultze, Beschi, Nobili, Fabricius, Rhenius, Rottler, Winslow, G.U. Pope and Calwell were involved in promoting Tamil language and literature. And C.P. Browne laboured for Telugu language. In Bombay, the American Mission Press was established in 1812.

Prodigious output

Thus, in most of the Indian languages, the pioneer publishers were Bible translators. Also the Christian missionaries, as pioneers, produced 86 dictionaries, 115 grammar books and 45 journals in 73 languages of India during these years. For example, in Goa, the cradle of Indian printing, it was Fr. Thomas Stephens (1549-1619) who produced the first "Konkani Grammar". Also it was Fr. Diogo Ribero (1560-1633) who published the first dictionary in Konkani in two volumes in 1626.

The introduction of printing and the consequent development of the languages of India had a tremendous socio-political impact, leading to enlightenment and empowerment. The second half of the 19th century began to witness a change from the old to the new, from the medieval to the modern. A scientific new educational system was being launched and practices like Sati (widow burning) and infanticide were being abolished.

Mass impact

In the realm of literature, the foundations of prose had already been laid. In the words of B.S. Kesavan, it was indeed "the dawn of the Indian Renaissance... The missionaries, through the introduction of printing and publishing helped the Indians think of the need for political freedom and social progress, and at the same time question certain traditional superstitious beliefs and practices. In a word, literature of the modern age became democratic. Whereas in the past, ownership of a handwritten book used to be a matter of pride, now, thanks to the advent of the printing press, even a man of average means could read and possess books".

After the establishment of the printing presses, newspapers began to appear in various cities. The first news journal in any Indian language was Digdarshan, published in 1818 by the Serampore Mission in Bengali, followed by Samachar Darpan. These newspapers proved a powerful medium for people to voice their thoughts and assert their rights.

Today, India has over 55,000 registered newspapers and periodicals. The missionaries also established the Serampore University in 1820, the first in Asia, besides a number of schools nationwide. Indeed, Indians are grateful to these visionaries who pioneered printing and publishing 450 years ago, the fruit of which the nation is reaping now.

Email: bkvnews@rediffmail.com

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 04 Apr 2007 23:18

Alok,

Nietszche (we can call him Neeja and knock out those un-necessary consonants

) urged the 'Superman' to be above society - but excessive elitism is itself a social phenomenon, which in turn will generate its own cause and effect.

Science must always be conscious of flank and rear security - the society in which scientists as human beings live and work. I dont merely mean 'doing good', but struggling to ensure that society understands the principles and the methods of science.

That often also requires understanding society and social dynamics, and religion is a social dynamic. It also means recognising that science as conducted by humans is a slender thread or stream that can be blocked or diverted by mudslides.

V Sudhir,

Japan is a largely secular society, and an aging one. Yet it is not threatened by an avalanche of either evangelical conversion, or Islamist takeover, or a demographic invasion that is changing its ability to sustain itself.

Continental Europe's problems are only peripherally connected to the retreat of Christianity, because religion is only one component of European identity.

CE is grappling with fundamental problems
- the massive drop in fertility
- the backlash against having cultural and civilisational identity so closely tied to ethnicity and religion for so many centuries.
- the exhausting aftereffects of social upheavals and world wars.

Oriana Fallaci was taking a step in the right direction when she described herself as a 'Christian Aethist'. So was Pim Fortuyn in demanding that people recognise that being Dutch meant something, even if it didnt mean being white and christian.

Europe would have existed, and would have had its own distinct identity without Christianity. It would have continued to celebrate Christmas and Easter (Winter Solstice and Spring). Western Europe would have found a common identity, would have pushed to limit the powers of kings and priests, would have built universities, and sent ships to trade and if possible conquer, would have abolished slavery etc without Constantine's gift.

'Europe' has an identity deeper than being christian or white, but rediscovering that is a slow and painful process which has windows of deep vulnerability. The extent of Europe's self-negation was not healthy, but to some extent it was the inevitable prequel to renewal along different lines.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 04 Apr 2007 23:35

Rahul Mehta wrote:
As Military, police, courts, prison etc which feed from taxes are importanter than temples, mosques and churches.

Inappropriate comparisons. Apples and Oranges. Hindu temples have long served and continue to serve the psychological needs of hindus. They are also termed as quantum healing centers which help the faithhful to re-energize them to face their predicaments. Temples also serve to knit the social fabric and help the local economies that are dependent on them. They also help as not only curative(psychological) centers but also as preventative centers. I.e., while courts, police etc., are needed to fix the broken things and act as deterrents, temples play role in preventing things veering towards broken status.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 04 Apr 2007 23:43

About the beef thing again, how did beef eating become important for muslims? Islam originated in Arabia and there are no cows in that area. Same question about christians. I think, in Europe, pork was more popular in ancient days than beef.

Did this become an important practice mainly to do something that can hurt hindus?

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 04 Apr 2007 23:46

Rony wrote:
shiv wrote: Hinduism = freedom
I will go with this.

Shiv, that is an excellent marketing slogan!

However, freedom has to be defended. It comes at a cost.
Unfortunately, we have gotten so used to freedom that we are taking it for granted.

S.Valkan · Post by **S.Valkan** » 04 Apr 2007 23:47

shiv wrote: The depth of Hinduism will always be there for those who look for it, but if Hindus are going to catch any new attention - it needs dumbing down without removing its essence.

A Hindus who meets anyone should be able to summarize things in a short catchphrase.

Since you are SO adamant that it be summarized in a sentence or less, here it goes:

Hnduism : freedom of choice

You can choose to believe, or not to believe.

You can choose to think for yourself, or let let others do it for you.

You can choose to perform idol worship, or not to perform it.

You can choose to be a non-dualist, or a dualist, or a dualist-nondualist.

You can choose to be a Yogi or a Bhogi.

You can choose Bhukti or Mukti.

None of that makes you any more or less Hindu than anyone else.

If they had done their sales job well - Hinduism may not have been under threat.

The tradition in Hinduism is "SEEK and ye shall find", and not "Advertise, and ye shall sell".

There is no point forcefeeding things you are allergic to, or incapable of ingesting.

What would you have done in the purists' place ?

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 04 Apr 2007 23:56

S.Valkan wrote:[

You can choose to believe, or not to believe.

You can choose to think for yourself, or let let others do it for you.

You can choose to perform idol worship, or not to perform it.

You can choose to be a non-dualist, or a dualist, or a dualist-nondualist.

You can choose to be a Yogi or a Bhogi.

You can choose Bhukti or Mukti.

None of that makes you any more or less Hindu than anyone else.
place ?

Lovely! I think y'all found the right tone!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Apr 2007 00:03

sorry... purist planks won't sell to the below poverty EJ vulnerable class. hence, they need better setup. something they are sold on to.. like a mutual fund that does not behave like a regular loser stock., with that hindu freedom that lets them reinvest in other types of funds, within the market.

for rest, we can seek after purist theology or science.

S.Valkan · Post by **S.Valkan** » 05 Apr 2007 00:08

shyam wrote: Did this become an important practice mainly to do something that can hurt hindus?

Not at all.

Beef has nothing to do with "hurting" Hindu sentiments.

Beef was NOT a choice meat for Muslims in India either.

In fact, most Muslims were poor peasants, and a major part of their diet was similar to their Hindu neighbours - rice, bread, beans, lentils, vegetables etc. [ In coastal regions, fish and shellfish were also included ]

The rich, aristocratic Muslims of Delhi, Awadh, Hyderabad etc. of course were inspired by Persian and Turkish/Mediterranean cuisines, and preferred mutton( kid/lamb) and chicken dishes,variants of which go by the term "Mughlai" cuisine.

On rare occasions like Id-ul-Adha, rich Muslims re-enacted Abraham's sacrifice on grand scale, just as the rich Arab and Turkish Sultanates elsewhere in the Middle East were doing. Since camels were not in ready supply, and the only large 'halal' animal in plentiful supply was the cow, the cows began to be sacrificed, and their meat distributed among poor Muslim peasants.

Also, after the 'prime' cuts of beef were served to Muslim noblemen, the offal was donated to Muslim peasants, and they made the best of it.

And the 'beef' tradition was born.

Alok_N · Post by **Alok_N** » 05 Apr 2007 00:11

Johann wrote:Alok,

Nietszche (we can call him Neeja and knock out those un-necessary consonants ) urged the 'Superman' to be above society - but excessive elitism is itself a social phenomenon, which in turn will generate its own cause and effect.

Johann,

the stuff I posted was from my formative years and it did have an impact among many other things that had impact ... what I took from "Netaji"was not so much "isolation" but "solitude" ... those two words are same in the act but have profoundly different meanings ...

in any case, pursuing science is about humility, not contempt ...

Science must always be conscious of flank and rear security - the society in which scientists as human beings live and work. I dont merely mean 'doing good', but struggling to ensure that society understands the principles and the methods of science.

the buzz-word for this is "outreach" ... it is now required in all proposals to funding agencies ... NSF calls it "braoder impact" ... I must say that I don't do much of it, but there are others around me who more than make up ...

It also means recognising that science as conducted by humans is a slender thread or stream that can be blocked or diverted by mudslides.

yes, I know this only too well ... a large project I was working on was canceled by an act of Congress ... a colleague had then quipped, "Its the revenge of C students" ...

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 05 Apr 2007 00:16

the problem is that if my search leads to 'books' then i have to demolish these freedoms and become unhindu.

aside
freedom to not seek also should be added. (why seek at all? why do you believe there is something to be sought at all?)

Alok_N · Post by **Alok_N** » 05 Apr 2007 00:43

shaardula wrote:freedom to not seek also should be added. (why seek at all? why do you believe there is something to be sought at all?)

the freedom to not seek is always there ...

however, the belief that there is something to be sought comes from the collective experience ... science is uncovering new phenonomena ... one can always claim that the new discovery is the final one ... now, why would that be resonable?

Alok_N · Post by **Alok_N** » 05 Apr 2007 00:44

HariC wrote:Lovely! I think y'all found the right tone!

what about you?

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 05 Apr 2007 01:08

shiv wrote: Hinduism = liberation
Hinduism = freedom
Hinduism = bliss (don't like this one myself)

Hmmm. If we go with freedo, then it becomes closer to Shaivism than other sects.

So I would rather identify Hinduism with - Freedom of Coscience.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 05 Apr 2007 01:09

Hinduism is too large to be a single religion
[quote]Indian-ness, and they are confident that for all the diversity of India there is such a thing, is â€œabout similarities produced by an Indic, pre-eminently Hindu civilisationâ€

rathi · Post by **rathi** » 05 Apr 2007 01:20

Shiv:
Why do we have to confine Hinduism to mean just one thing? Just because Islam = Peace and Christianity = Love, do we have to tweak Hinduism to fit into a mold?

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 05 Apr 2007 01:26

Charioteer, what's wrong with calling yourself Rathi? It would also confirm to forum guidelines.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Apr 2007 02:03

Hinduism = Everything!

btw, who is a Hindu [etymology:persian]?

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 05 Apr 2007 02:17

SaiK wrote:sorry... purist planks won't sell to the below poverty EJ vulnerable class. hence, they need better setup. something they are sold on to.. like a mutual fund that does not behave like a regular loser stock., with that hindu freedom that lets them reinvest in other types of funds, within the market.

for rest, we can seek after purist theology or science.

Hi,

Hindusim is like Stock Index Funds, it is no load and rides the Market. Most part outperforms costly, loser mutual funds. The risk is spread and change can be hedged

Freedom => ability to choose

Dharma = Choice within the bounds of what preserves society.

Hinduism = Freedom

Choose freedom, be Hindu!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Apr 2007 02:18

abhischekcc wrote:
shiv wrote: Hinduism = liberation
Hinduism = freedom
Hinduism = bliss (don't like this one myself)
Hmmm. If we go with freedo, then it becomes closer to Shaivism than other sects.

So I would rather identify Hinduism with - Freedom of Conscience.

Compassion is the foundation stone of all righteousness .

The first sign of Dharma is in Compassion .

Snatan Daram should be synonymous with Compassion, compassion toward all the living beings .

Bharat Rakshak

Religion Thread - 9

Why?