![Image](http://www.hinduwisdom.info/images/kshatriya.jpg)
Image of a Kshatriya in Ancient India.
War in Ancient India
Shwetank wrote:Also there seems to be a general lack of body armor in the pics I've seen, not even bamboo or leather. THe warriors all seem to be naked in the upper body mostly except in the pics. you frequently see of the Mahabharata but those are modern imaginings. Kinda weird considering the Chinese and West both had armor.
The individual spear-training in any martial art - kalaripayatu, wushu, western or anything - is the most difficult and the deadliest form of contact fighting. The mass and the reach of a spear obviously makes it the biggest weapon for contact-fighting... but managing the mass and the reach, and compensating for the lack of defense requires lot of strength and experience. In structured learning that is almost always taught at the end of a student's education, with very few people ever getting that far. That however has no application to military operations except in heroic-fighting among primitive peoples or targetted assasination of commanders. The bulk spear/pikemen can be trained in a matter of hours for their essenatial task.hnair wrote:However there is a stage in Kalaripayattu training (some say it is the final stage) where the student is extensively trained in using a spear(both as a lance as well as a cutting weapon like halbard). That stage might be the most significant training from a bigger military operation perspective, particularly when dealing with cavalry.
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I am always on the lookout for Indian medieval weaponry/tactics books. ParGha (or anyone), can you suggest some titles/authors that caught your eye? Particularly Indian archery and tactics.
Airavat, so does that make this account during the Ramayana period?Airavat wrote:The first recorded battle in Indian History:
DASRAJAN
The battle of ten kings
Vishvamitra of the Kusika family was his priest but Sudas replaced him with Vasishta due to the latter's greater knowledge. A long rivalry broke out between the two priests until Vishwamitra left the Kingdom of Bharat. He formed a confederacy of ten clan-kingdoms in northwestern India, which feared the political expansion of Bharat, and used them to take his revenge.
Only the British managed to bankrupt a nation and force it into famine conditions.It is accordingly affirmed that famine has never visited India, and that there has never been a general scarcity in the supply of nourishing food.
No slash and burn and destruction like the Islamists pigs that invaded the rest of the world.But, farther, there are usages observed by the Indians which contribute to prevent the occurrence of famine among them; for whereas among other nations it is usual, in the contests of war, to ravage the soil, and thus to reduce it to an uncultivated waste, among the Indians, on the contrary, by whom husbandmen are regarded as a class that is sacred and inviolable, the tillers of the soil, even when battle is raging in their neighbourhood, are undisturbed by any sense of danger, for the combatants on either side in waging the conflict make carnage of each other, but allow those engaged in husbandry to remain quite unmolested. Besides, they neither ravage an enemy's land with fire, nor cut down its trees.
My personal view about the most difficult training is in usage of fully flexible weapons (opposed to partial ones like nan chaku). From good old chain to spiked ball 'n chain to the awesome Urumi of Kalaripayattu, accurate (and predictable) usage is so incredibly difficult. But yeah, militarily all these are of limited value compared to others.ParGha wrote: The individual spear-training in any martial art - kalaripayatu, wushu, western or anything - is the most difficult and the deadliest form of contact fighting. The mass and the reach of a spear obviously makes it the biggest weapon for contact-fighting... but managing the mass and the reach, and compensating for the lack of defense requires lot of strength and experience. In structured learning that is almost always taught at the end of a student's education, with very few people ever getting that far. That however has no application to military operations except in heroic-fighting among primitive peoples or targetted assasination of commanders. The bulk spear/pikemen can be trained in a matter of hours for their essenatial task.
Thanks. Yeah, I am basically looking for Indian archery information. Particularly curious to know how the Hun bow got to be extensively depicted in mythological paintings etc.You can also find interesting reads in BR's own "Books that cover Indian Armed forces and its History" thread
btw, the temples he built were still kept secret.. raja raja the great!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Cholas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajaraja_Chola_I
Naval Conquests
Detail of the main gopura (tower) of the Thanjavur Temple
Detail of the main gopura (tower) of the Thanjavur Temple
One of the last conquests of Rajaraja was the naval conquest of the ‘old islands of the sea numbering 12,000’, the Maldives.[19] We have no further details regarding this expedition, however this is a sufficient indication of the abilities of the Chola Navy, which was utilised so effectively under Rajendra I. Chola Navy also had played a major role in the invasion of Lanka.[20]
The increasing realisation of the importance of a good Navy and the desire to neutralise the emerging Chera Naval power were probably the reasons for the Kandalur campaign in the early days of Rajaraja’s reign.[21]
Nagapattinam on the Bay of Bengal was the main port of the Cholas and could have been the navy headquarters.
Military Organisation
Rajaraja created a powerful standing army and a considerable navy which achieved even greater success under Rajendra than under himself. The prominence given to the army from the conquest of the Pandyas down to the last year of the king’s reign is significant, and shows the spirit with which he treated his soldiers. Evidently Rajaraja gave his army its due share in the glory derived from his extensive conquests. A number of regiments are mentioned in the Tanjore inscriptions.
In most of the foregoing names the first portion appears to be the surnames or titles of the king himself or of his son. That these regiments should have been called after the king or his son shows the attachment, which the Chola king bore towards his army.
It may not be unreasonable to suppose that these royal names were pre-fixed to the designations of these regiments after they had distinguished themselves in some engagement or other. It is worthy of note that there are elephant troops, cavalry and foot soldiers among these regiments. To some of these regiments, the management of certain minor shrines of the temple was entrusted and they were expected to provide for the requirements of the shrine. Others among them took money from the temple on interest, which they agreed to pay in cash. We are not, however, told to what productive purpose they applied this money. At any rate all these transactions show that the king created in them an interest in the temple he built.
I wonder it can be other way round too i.e. the bow making art might have reached distant parts of asia or C-asia via the hands of the traders(foreign /native), iirc in one of the episodes of SURABHI the team had visited some mountainous region in Leh/Laddakh where a personhnair wrote:Thanks. Yeah, I am basically looking for Indian archery information. Particularly curious to know how the Hun bow got to be extensively depicted in mythological paintings etc.ParGha wrote: You can also find interesting reads in BR's own "Books that cover Indian Armed forces and its History" thread
The Rani of Jhansi
By Saurav Basu | Published Today | Indian History |
Saurav Basu
Of all the characters in the epic mutiny of 1857; after 150 years later there is one name which stands tall over all others and yet ironically was one who was neither the initiator of the mutiny; neither among the leaders until the last stage and who had claims to nothing more than a small town…Yet, in many ways she was alone in her magnificence, a singular figure among a gallery of heroes. [1] She was Lakshmi Bai; and that small town immortalized forever is Jhansi.
Jhansi is a small town in the province of Uttar Pradesh, part of the region itself known as Bundelkhand. The town still feels that it owes its fame to that young Rani; who ruled for a mere 4 and a half years. It keeps alive the memory of its beloved Rani with her image on horseback imprinted all over; at crossroads; on hoardings; in parks her ubiquity conforming what people believe.
Megasthenes' Indica gives some details....then there is the Arthashastra by Kautilya.ssmitra wrote:Does anyone know of a reference for the ORBAT during the maurya dynasty. I am particularly looking for information about how troops were managed and controlled during movement from one place to another. There is a lot of info about the dynasty itself but not about its forces. Something at the same level of detail as this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_legi ... y_Officers
for those interested I am reading a fiction called the lost legion by H. Warner Munn . not as accurate as the Emperor series by conn iggluden but nonetheless gives a good account of how entire roman legions moved.
Was the maintenance of large standing armies the exception or the rule for a majority of the early and medieval era Hindu Kingdoms?Chandragupta maintained a vast standing army of 600,000.
Hi Airavat, thanks for that info, I will try and see if I can find a abridged version of either. Do they say what kind of siege engines were used and were they similar to the romans. On a different note were the different "boards/battle groups taken from different parts of India or trained according to individual ability.Airavat wrote:
Megasthenes' Indica gives some details....then there is the Arthashastra by Kautilya.
These engines of war are siege-artillery referred to in the Arthashastra.
Rahul M wrote: By big, of course I mean that which could dominate at least 60% of India's current landmass.
very true, especially the last part. but my point was (and is) an empire that was the single most important force in the sub-continent. in that case the defence of the whole nation as we know it would have been their responsibility.Cholas
Pallavas
Maratha confederacy
Agreed that by the time of Ashoka the Mauryan empire spanned such a large extent that even now it may be unsurpassed. But that does not mean they are the only *large* empires to concentrate on Navy. Also, coming with a number like 60/70% for large is just a technicality. Even 30% would be considered very large by European standards Wink.
What I understand is that Chandragupta's career decided the composition of his army. Chandragupta belonged to Moriya clan of Pipphalivana, which lost its lands to the Nanda Empire of Magadha. Chandragupta was in rebellion against the Nandas when he made an alliance with Chanakya, who took him to Taxila in the northwest. At this time came Alexander's invasion and retreat....due to the tough fighting Alex left much of the lands to his Indian allies and at other places posted Greek/Macedonian garrisons.ssmitra wrote: On a different note were the different "boards/battle groups taken from different parts of India or trained according to individual ability.
Bay of Bengal was known as the "the Chola pond".Rahul M wrote: this fact seems very important to me that no subsequent big Indian kingdom gave that much importance to navy.
by big, of course I mean that which could dominate at least 60% of India's current landmass.
What is missing in this article is Chandra Gupta II's northwestern campaign. The Delhi Iron Pillar inscription states that the King, "defeated a confederacy of hostile chiefs in Vanga, and having crossed in warfare the seven mouths of the River Sindhu, conquered the Vahlikas."The Imperial Guptas could not have achieved their successes through force of arms without an efficient martial system. Historically, the best accounts of this comes not from the Hindus themselves but from Chinese and Western observers. However, a contemporary Indian document, regarded as a military classic of the time, the Siva-Dhanur-veda, offers some insight into the military system of the Guptas. Like Indian kings before them, and The Guptas seem to have relied heavily on infantry archers, and the bow was one of the dominant weapons of their army. The Hindu version of the longbow was composed of metal, or more typically bamboo, and fired a long bamboo cane arrow with a metal head. Unlike the composite bows of Western and Central Asian foes, bows of this design would be less prone to warping in the damp and moist conditions often prevalent to the region. The Indian longbow was reputedly a powerful weapon capable of great range and penetration and provided an effective counter to invading horse archers. Iron shafts were used against armored elephants, and fire arrows were also part of the bowmen's arsenal. India historically has had a prominent reputation for its steel weapons. One of these was the steel bow. Due to its high tensility, the steel bow was capable of long range and penetration of exceptionally thick armor. These were less common weapons than the bamboo design and found in the hands of noblemen rather than in the ranks. Archers were frequently protected by infantry equipped with shields, javelins, and longswords.
The Guptas also had knowledge of siegecraft, catapults, and other sophisticated war machines.
The Guptas apparently showed little predilection for using horse archers, despite the fact these warriors were a main component in the ranks of their Scythian, Parthian, and Hepthalite (Huna) enemies. However, the Gupta armies were probably better disciplined. Able commanders like Samudragupta and Chandragupta II would have likely understood the need for combined armed tactics and proper logistical organization. Gupta military success likely stemmed from the concerted use elephants, armored cavalry, and foot archers in tandem against both Hindu kingdoms and foreign armies invading from the Northwest. The Guptas also maintained a navy, allowing them to control regional waters.
You are right. India was not saved from a catastrophe....and much worse the Mongol triumph over the Muslims actually made things tougher for India!Govind wrote:when the Mongol invaders appeared on the borders of india, why did they not
invade?
.......According to every history book and website, India was saved from a catastrophe, but I believe otherwise(at least from a hindu and jain cultural and civ. perspective).
At one of these forts, named Ranthambhor, two Mongol brothers Kehbru and Alaghu fought alongside the Rajput Rana Hammir Dev. Alaghu was captured by the Turks and was offered a high post in the Muslim army with his followers. Alaghu spurned the offer because after fighting alongside the highborn Hindu leader he was not willing to serve under the lowly Khaljis who were once the servants of the all-conquering Mongols. See Manollasa