Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

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ramana
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

No Comment
PTI reports:
Lalu seeks overhaul of intelligence wing

New Delhi | PTI

Demanding a complete overhaul of the intelligence set-up in the country in the wake of the Mumbai terror attacks, Railway Minister Lalu Prasad today charged the agencies concerned with not providing specific information.

"Intelligence Bureau always gives general reports just to fulfil the formalities. Their reports have no specific information. I have demanded for complete overhaul of the intelligence set-up during the all-party meeting chaired by the Prime Minister," Prasad told reporters here.

"Such a report has been sent to Maharashtra government in September. Even a meeting was held over the issue by the Home Ministry. I do not know whether a follow up was done or not," Prasad said.

Admitting serious lapses, the minister said adequate attention was not paid. "There has been serious lapses. Had we all been cautious, this could have beeen avoided."

Describing the new Home Minister P Chidambaram as sharp and intelligent, Prasad hoped that he would deliver.

In a ligher vein, he also commented, "Chidambaram used to be very busy as a finance minister. Now, he has become the Home Minister
and he should be given time."

Welcoming the decision of the Mulsim Council not to bury the bodies of the terrorists in Indian soil, he said, "India is one and we should face the situation unitedly."

Prasad, however, parried the question on whether a law like POTA is required.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

X-posted..
cbelwal wrote:[url=http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... s+purposes]Link/url]

"....
said one serving IB officer, “that just 20 per cent of the organisation’s focus was on hard intelligence like infiltrating insurgencies and terrorist groups and organised gangs like D-company.”

The increasing number of terrorist attacks on India, culminating in last week’s Mumbai carnage, helped reverse the trend. “But there is almost a generation of men at the ground-level who have only done political intelligence,” the officer said.
...
Indian foreign and home ministry officials are scathing about R&AW and IB’s tendency to flood the system with dozens of vague and contradictory threat alerts. “After an attack they then pick one of the reports and say, ‘Look we predicted it,’” said one. "

Lalu was also talking about this tendency to flood the system with vague warnings like the boy who cried wolf.

looks like the bureaucrats are getting reshuffled.
Kumawat is sent to border


New Delhi Dec. 2: Former Kerala DGP Raman Srivastava on Tuesday took charge as special secretary (internal security) in the home ministry on Monday replacing M.L. Kumawat. Mr Kumawat has been appointed as the director general of the border security force. Mr Srivastava is an IPS officer of the Kerala cadre and belongs to the 1973 batch. The task seems to have been cut out for Mr Srivastava following the Mumbai terror attacks. In view of strong links emerging after the Mumbai terror siege, the BSF has sought hovercraft to secure the Indian border with Pakistan along the disputed Sir Creek area.
Wasnt this Raman Shrivastava the guy who created the false cases on the ISRO scientists in Kerala and thus put back the cryogenic engine by a few years? If so good luck! another fixer to the fore?
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

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Pak accepts terrorists may be from its territory: US
3 Dec 2008, 0229 hrs IST, Chidanand Rajghatta, TNN
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
WASHINGTON: The terrorist massacre in Mumbai was plotted in Pakistan and was executed by Pakistanis, Indian and US officials now agree. The big
question now: How culpable are the Pakistani government and its military and intelligence agency, and how can the answer be handled either way it turns out?

That’s the tricky issue facing New Delhi and Washington as they put together pieces of the terrorist jigsaw to claimed 170-plus lives, including nearly 40 Muslims and nationals from 10 countries.

US advice to India: wait and see how Pakistani government cooperates in the investigation before any punitive action. US directive to Islamabad: prove your protestations of innocence and non-complicity at the official level, with a full and transparent cooperation in the face of overwhelming evidence that the footprints of the terror attack lead back to Pakistan.


This is the gist of the exchanges between the three countries. On Tuesday, Washington broadly accepted India’s contention, based on evidence now shared with US law enforcement and intelligence agencies that the terror trail led to Pakistan. The preponderance of proof include detailed confessions by the one surviving terrorist, GPS tracks, e-mail and electronic tracks, telephone intercepts, and ordnance and forensic evidence, among other things.

US acceptance of India’s case — dismissed out-of-hand as knee-jerk, premature etc — was signaled by an unnamed senior American official who was quoted by Reuters as saying ''There are a lot of reasons to think it might be a group, partially or wholly a group, that is located on Pakistan's territory.''

The official, accompanying Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on her trip to the sub-continent, also said Islamabad had accepted the ''possibility that there might be people located on Pakistani territory,'' involved in the attack and had promised to cooperate in the investigation.

On record though, the state department continued to give Pakistan some breathing space, saying ''it’s too early to say where these attackers originated from — where they originated from, who was behind these attacks.'' The White House took the same line on Monday, enabling a relieved Pakistani press to crow that Islamabad had been declared innocent.

But every a cursory reading beyond the generalities indicate anything but a clean chit. ''The investigation will obviously point us in a certain direction. But we need to let the investigation take its course. Finger-pointing is not necessarily the best thing at this particular time,'' State Department spokesman Robert Wood said, while offering a dead giveaway to the origins by immediately adding, ''However, it’s incumbent upon Pakistan to do what it can to make sure that they’re cooperating with this investigation, and help bring these culprits to justice.''

The tricky problem both New Delhi and the international community faces is in determining the culpability of the Pakistani government and its extent — whether through over or covert complicity or through inaction and denial.

Intelligence circles say Pakistan’s government has always tried to maintain a ''plausible deniability'' in all its covert activity, including sponsorship of terrorism and nuclear proliferation.
For instance, even in the AQ Khan case, Islamabad initially denied proliferation, then insisted Khan had gone rogue and done it on his own. Khan now says the government was very much in the loop and authorised it.

In the Mumbai terror strike, intelligence circles surmise that it is possible the ISI had ''outsourced'' the operation to a former controller now functioning as a LeT commander or operative, who may or may not have turned rogue. Since preparation for the strike is thought to have stretched a year or more, it was conceived well before the current civilian government took change, and it might have happened without its approval or knowledge.

But no one, including Pakistani experts, doubts that LeT is a creation of the ISI, whose officers are often seconded to the terror group. ''Lashkar-e-Taiba was fostered by ISI as a surrogate to help Mujaheddin by Kashmir...in recent years they have broken out of control from ISI,'' Shuja Nawaz, a thoughtful Pakistani scholar and brother of former Army chief Asif Nawaz Janjua, who has written a candid history of a militarized Pakistan titled ''Crossed Swords,'' said on public television on Monday, openly articulating what is said in hushed whispers in Pakistan.

Nawaz said the LeT is still operating in Pakistan, holding large meetings and collecting funds, and a true test of Islamabad’s commitment will be to act on it now. ''If there is any ambivalence (towards LeT), now is the time...there should be no reason not to act,'' he said.

But going by past record, chances are bleak that Pakistan will stick to any commitment on crackdown or cooperation particularly since the military still seems to call the shots in Islamabad. A study of past crises between the two sides compiled by the Washington-based Stimson Center elaborately chronicles Islamabad’s fudging and double-speak on the terrorism issue based on interviews with U.S officials.

In one chapter, the study relates how former military ruler Pervez Musharraf kept fudging the infiltration and terrorism issue by telling U.S Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage that ''nothing is happening'' across the Line of Control. Armitage, it says, insisted on a more than a present-tense commitment from Musharraf.

''General Musharraf also claimed that training camps for militants did not exist on Pakistani soil. Armitage shared with Musharraf evidence to the contrary,'' the study relates. Musharraf finally commits not to allow Pakistan and the territory under its control not to be used for terrorism. ''Was Musharraf’s pledge substantive or just expedient?''the study asks, going to suggest that it was mostly the latter.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

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MSNBC.
U.S. official: Indian attack has Pakistani ties
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28015877/
WASHINGTON - Evidence suggests that a group partly based in Pakistan carried out last week's attack in India, U.S. officials said Tuesday, also revealing that the U.S. had warned the Indian government beforehand that terrorists appeared to be plotting an assault on Mumbai.

The brutal, prolonged attack on India's financial capital has some roots in Pakistan, a senior State Department official said. That's the closest the U.S. has come to placing blame for the coordinated assaults, although the official was careful to say that not all the evidence is in. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

NBC News reported Tuesday that a confidential U.S. intelligence analysis concludes that some of the Mumbai terrorists were likely trained by the Lashkar-e-Tayyiba terrorist group, with "camps located in Mansera and Muzzarafabad in Pakistani-administered Kashmir." The 10 terrorists behind the Mumbai massacre "spoke Punjabi" and were of "likely Pakistani origin," the report said.

On the origins of the terrorists, the official did not detail the evidence leading to a connection in Pakistan, and did not single out any one terror organization as suspect. But the official said "a variety of information, some of it public, some of it not" points to an unspecified terror group "partially or wholly ... located on Pakistan's territory."
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Patni »

ramana wrote:PTI reports:


"Every group had a bomb with them and two of them had kept them in taxis, one which exploded in Vile Parle and the other which exploded in Dockyard Road," Gafoor said.[/b]


And add to that the two bombs defused by the Bomb Squad. So there is one that exploded or is still missing.
MIssing Bomb located.

A week after the terrorists struck Mumbai in a big way, two bags containing four kg RDX were found inside Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus [Images] station on Wednesday, Joint Commissioner of Police Rakesh Maria said.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

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Thanks Patni. So simple arithmetic was useful. Were there any such reports worrying about missing bmombs like we have right here?

Also was it just the explosive or assembled device?
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

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The PTI reporters should be sent to journalism school. The reprot said bag containing explosives when they were really assembled inot bombs. How can the reporte be such an idiot.And the Railway Police offical also shold go back to the Academy. An iron container was found- is he an idiot, that iron container was the bomb casing? Is he a police man or a chowkidar?
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

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More from Pioneer, 4 Dec 2008
8 days on, 8 kg RDX recovered from CST

TN Raghunatha | Mumbai

The city police recovered eight kilograms of RDX at the Chhatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST) on Wednesday evening, even as thousands of people from all walks of life congregated at the Gateway of India in south Mumbai to pay homage to those killed in last week's attack.

As placard and banner-waving demonstrators turned ire against politicians for their lack of concern for security of people and lit candles at the Gateway of India in memory of the Mumbai attack victims, there was a flurry of activity at the CST, another major landmark located just 1.5 km away, where the RDX was seized.

Confirming the development, new State Anti-Terrorist Squad chief KP Raghuvanshi told The Pioneer in the night: “Yes. We have found 8 kgs of RDX in an abandoned bag at the CST. The explosive is almost similar to the one we had found in the initial phase of last week’s terrorist attack. The bag, containing explosive, was among the hundreds of suitcases and bags that had been left behind by the panicked passengers when the attack took place on Wednesday last”.According to Raghuvanshi, an electronic device was attached to the explosive. Samples of the explosive are being sent to the Forensic Science Laboratory at Kalina here.

{So he doesnt want to admit it was a bomb?}

Informed Railway sources said the bag, containing the explosive, had been kept along with other recovered abandoned baggage in a storeroom located near platform no 15 of the CST. "While we were handing back the abandoned baggage to concerned passengers today, we found this bag, felt there was something suspicious about it and informed the police," a Central Railway official said.

{So what did Hasan Gafoor do after he figured out that each team had a bomb to deposit? Nothing. He let the Central Railways people find it}

The recovery of the bag containing RDX, a week after it was planted at the CST, has come as a huge relief to Mumbaikars as also the police. "What if the bomb had exploded during the last one week. If anything, a major disaster awaiting to happen has now been averted with the recovery of the RDX," the Railway official said.

The CST was among the five sites where terrorists laid siege - the others being Hotel Taj, Nariman House, Hotel Oberoi-Trident and Leopold Café and bar. In all, the terrorists gunned down nearly 200 persons and injured 300-odd others.

Informed police sources, meanwhile, said the ATS had more than a reason to believe that one of the two armed terrorists who went on a rampage at the CST on the night of November 26, 2008, had left the bag, before leaving the CST. The two terrorists had in all killed 57 persons, including some police personnel, at the CST.

The two terrorists who were involved in the CST mayhem were Ajmal Amir Kasab and Abu Ismail Khan. After their CST operation, the two indulged in terror acts at Cama and Albless Hospital, from there to Vidhan Bhavan area and Girgaum. At Girgaum, a police team that intercepted the duo fleeing the place in a hijacked police jeep, killed Abu Ismail and arrested Kasab.

The police have confirmed the terrorists involved in last week's attack were carrying RDX with them. Two other bombs had exploded on the night of November 26, 2008 in two taxis exploded at Vile Parle and Wadi bundar, killing half a dozen persons.

The Crime Branch sleuths, who are probing the case, have meanwhile said that three bombs were earlier defused - one outside Taj, another between Taj-Leopold and the third bomb at Oberoi-Trident, which too were RDX bombs, which were attached with timers and they were meant to go off at around 1 am and 2 am on November 27, 2008 - hours after the incident - giving credence to the theory that they wanted to escape. The recovery of the sixth bomb at CST means that the group was carrying at least six bombs.
So this Kasab guy never told them about his left luggage at the CST? And the ATS was working him? How come they (ATS) didnt give him the narco test they wee giving everyone else? Or is that for the majority community onlee? And they had the turd who palnted the bomb at the CST and yet were unable to get that info from him! Either the guy is an innocent lamb or is a master of disguie with apoor boy cover story like in the spy movies.

Very slipshod. That Hasan Gafoor should resign from police and take up chowkidari. And take that Raghuvanshi along. Cant blame Karakare now can he?

GOI is doing a wrong thing by having the ATS aka keystone cops interrogate the guy. I think he is a hardened SSG criminal with a cover story. He needs to be worked by Military Intelligence.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

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X-posted..
Aditya G wrote: http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/02m ... at-cst.htm
...

As he tried to make his way to the place where the terrorists were spraying bullets, he came across a terrorist standing just 15 metres away from him, near platform number 6. Without wasting any time, Pandarkar unlocked his .303 rifle and fired three shots at the terrorist.

Unfortunately, all three bullets missed the target. "When you shoot in such circumstances, it is to kill the target. The terrorist was fortunate that he was not hit by my bullets," he says when asked why he missed the target.

The terrorist fired back and the bullet hit Pandarkar in the chest. When the terrorist ran away, Pandarkar tried to follow him, but couldn't move beyond a few feet. His colleagues rushed to his rescue as he fell down, writhing in pain

....
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by enqyoob »

ramana, what do you make of this? Note the name of the terrorist - this is the second time this name appears, related to what happened at sea. Same one or different one?
Mumbai: Where are the 14 Other Pakistani-Trained Terrorists?
Captured Gunman Says Only 10 of 24 Were Sent to Mumbai; Concern for New Delhi
By LEN TEPPER, RICHARD ESPOSITO, and BRIAN ROSS

December 3, 2008—

The lone gunman captured alive in Mumbai has told interrogators only 10 of the 24 young men in his year-long terrorist training course were sent to Mumbai last week, leaving 14 still in Pakistan, ready to strike again, law enforcement and security sources tell ABCNews.com.

Security officials say they have been warned by Indian and U.S. officials that a second attack on the Indian capital city New Delhi is possible.

U.S. officials say the captured gunman's account corroborates other intelligence that points to the role of the Pakistani-based Lashkar e Taiba, a group affiliated with al Qaeda that opposes Indian rule over the disputed state of Kashmir.

U.S. counter-terrorism officials say Lashkar e Taiba's ability to operate with impunity inside Pakistan is one reason U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has warned Pakistan "this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation."

A warning issued by U.S. intelligence agencies to Indian officials in mid-October suggests the U.S. may know the precise location of the training camps or headquarters in Pakistan, according to sources in the intelligence community.

"There's going to have be retaliation, but it could be a while," said former CIA intelligence officer John Kiriakou, an ABC News consultant.

"The location of those bases is the worst kept secret in South Asia, but by now they probably have been abandoned," he said.

Mohammad Ajmal Amir Iman, 21, captured by police at Mumbai's main train station, reportedly told interrogators he began training for last week's deadly attack in late 2007 along with 23 other recruits to Lashkar e Taiba, a terror group affiliated with al Qaeda.

He reportedly described four, three-month training segments at locations in Pakistan: physical fitness, running, weapons and explosives and sea maneuvers.

Gunmen Were Trained Terrorists

The captured terrorist described his trainers as former Pakistani military officers, including one who was known as Cha-Cha, or Uncle.

Indian officials say his account is corroborated by evidence recovered from the group's boats and from intercepted satellite phone conversations that have been recovered from data files.

The officials say they have now heard one conversation in which a gunman is heard telling Lashkar e Taiba headquarters, "We finished off the four goats," a reference to the murder of four crewmen on the boat hijacked by the attackers in Indian waters.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Patni »

Details on Holdup at Cama Hospital.
Cama staff rose to the occasion

Rahi Gaikwad

Mumbai: The sixth floor of the Cama and Albless Hospital building, down the road from the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST), is pockmarked. Bullet and shrapnel marks are all over the walls, on the two metal lift doors and the ceiling as well. They bear testimony to the heavy exchange of fire that took place on the night of November 26. On the floor outside the lift are four small craters, presumably caused by grenades.

After unleashing mayhem at the CST, terrorists Mohammad Ajmal Amir Iman and Mohammad Ismail reached the hospital through the rear gate beyond 10 p.m, taking the overbridge at the station. First, they shot dead security guard Baban Ugde and moving into the main six-storey building fired at another guard, Bhanu Narkar. “I saw Bhanu move towards the building. I saw him being shot and falling down. Then, I did not venture out. I saw two people go up the building warning that terrorists were on their way,” said resident medical officer Santosh Patil.

Responding swiftly, “the staff gathered the patients and locked themselves in the wards and rooms. They switched off the lights,” said Dr. Patil.

Meanwhile, Kailash Ghegadamal, in charge of guarding two gates at the RMO and doctors’ quarters, was taking steps to block the entrance. He said: “I heard the firing at CST. People from the station were coming to Cama. They were talking about the terrorists. So, I first locked the RMO gate and went to the doctors’ quarters to warn them about the situation. Fifteen-30 minutes passed. When I came down, I saw the police. I guessed that the terrorists might have gone up the building. I took around seven or eight police officers and one more hospital staffer. All of us took the lift to the sixth floor, beyond which is the terrace.”

As the police did not know their way around, they asked Ghegadamal to guide them. A bucket with a steel counter was lying around, he said. “One of the policemen picked up the steel piece and threw it up the terrace. The next moment, Chandrakant Tike, a worker at the hospital came rushing down. He had been held by the terrorists. They had searched his person and seized his mobile phone. He told us that there were two terrorists on the terrace.”

An exchange of fire ensued between the police and the attackersfor 30-45 minutes. Ghegadamal and Tike moved into a gap in the wall. When the terrorists hurled a grenade, both of them jumped to save themselves, but Tike was injured in the attack. He is now undergoing treatment in the hospital.

A relative said Tike did not wish to speak to the media. “He is out of danger, but still in a traumatised state.”

Of the three other policemen who were injured in the grenade attack, two died and the other is still in hospital, according to Ghegadamal, who was also hurt.

After the grenade attacks, the police told Ghegadamal and others to go down while they provided cover. After Ghegadamal got aid for others and himself, he felt that the noise was dying down. He does not know what happened after that.

He has no idea how the terrorists came down and exited the hospital.

The two attackers reportedly came down and were intercepted by Additional Commissioner of Police Sadanand Date. He was injured in the attack.

Meanwhile, ATS chief Hemant Karkare, ACP Ashok Khamte and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar were going towards Cama in a police Qualis jeep.

The terrorists fired at their vehicle, killing them on the spot. One more policeman was killed inside the jeep and another policeman Arun Jadhav was injured. He remained in the vehicle, lying still.

The attackers removed the bodies, took the Qualis to the Vidhan Bhavan, where one of the tyres sprang a puncture. So, they hijacked a Skoda and went to Girgaum Chowpatty. In an encounter with the police at Chowpatty, Iman was arrested and Ismail was killed.
So it seems the two Pakistani terrorists after walking out of CST spent almost 30-40 min in relatively quietness or laying low on terrace of Cama Hospital. Raise lot of question to my mind!! Why would anyone after just killing close to 80 pp. in open firing at CST then go hide themselves on a terrace of a hospital less then 50 meter from a Large Police Station right next door!! They fired on the way up to terrace as if announcing where they were heading!! waited close to 30 min. What were they doing? the report says they snatched mobile phone i sure would be very interested in knowing who were called up during that 30 min using that phone! Also it does look more and more like they were deliberately
waiting for some High ranking officers to show up at the location. The terrace of Cama would provide a good view point to see clearly both inside the Police station next door (Head office of Mumbai Crime Branch) and also possibly into the Police Headquarter at Crawford Market which would be less then 300 meter from the cama. They definitely had preplanned picking cama as waiting out place. Question is waiting for who to make an appearance? It baffles my mind that they were not pinned down when they came down. By all accounts Mumbai police knew where they were. A granade blast would be heard clearly even inside police Headquarter not to mention police station with least 100's of force right next door.
Making changes in the time line i have constructed, had assumed that they spent more time driving, once they killed the ATS chief etc. in stolen police qualis. Am updating the google map to reflect new information.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by amdavadi »

I belive mumbai police is holding more than one terrorist..I remember seeing report day or two after the attack that India capture british citizen of paki origin...


Kasab cant be spilling all this out on his own...We may have more than one alive terrorist. That may be the reason GOI keep saying we have proof of pakis being involve.This make sense if we go by the initial report of group of 15-20 pigs comming to mumbai
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by svinayak »

Patni wrote:
So it seems the two Pakistani terrorists after walking out of CST spent almost 30-40 min in relatively quietness or laying low on terrace of Cama Hospital. Raise lot of question to my mind!! Why would anyone after just killing close to 80 pp. in open firing at CST then go hide themselves on a terrace of a hospital less then 50 meter from a Large Police Station right next door!! They fired on the way up to terrace as if announcing where they were heading!! waited close to 30 min. What were they doing? the report says they snatched mobile phone i sure would be very interested in knowing who were called up during that 30 min using that phone! Also it does look more and more like they were deliberately
waiting for some High ranking officers to show up at the location. The terrace of Cama would provide a good view point to see clearly both inside the Police station next door (Head office of Mumbai Crime Branch) and also possibly into the Police Headquarter at Crawford Market which would be less then 300 meter from the cama. They definitely had preplanned picking cama as waiting out place. Question is waiting for who to make an appearance? It baffles my mind that they were not pinned down when they came down. By all accounts Mumbai police knew where they were. A granade blast would be heard clearly even inside police Headquarter not to mention police station with least 100's of force right next door.
Making changes in the time line i have constructed, had assumed that they spent more time driving, once they killed the ATS chief etc. in stolen police qualis. Am updating the google map to reflect new information.
Looks like they were getting briefed by the handlers in Pakistan.
They may have had a plan for attack on the Police station. It looks like they changed the
plans midway between locations. They were getting instructions all the way probably and once they figured out that the forces are coming they must have focused on the Jewish center and the Hotels.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

N^3, from What I can make out the fellow's name is Iman. Kasab is a caste name. So its being used interchangably.

Patni, may be after the shooting spree at CST they were tasked to go to hospital to get the injured people in the melee. This was done in Punjab by Khalsitanis too. So its astandard TSP/ISI tactic.

The ATS chief and squad got ambushed by these two and thats the simple thing. It was just unfortunate.

BTW have you ever me the babu log? They always travel together so they can exchange thoughts and go over things.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

The alternative the ISI targetted the ATS guys knowing that they will show up. But how can they be sure of that? it could be any other ATS guys.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Singha »

any insider on the police wireless net could probably keep tabs
on which units were rushing to scene. and a mole just watching live TV could cue the shooters onto this target of opportunity.
they were well trained in shooting...in jewish center one guy on 4th floor roof took out a shopkeeper on road with a single well aimed shot per his brother who was inside the shop.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

Singha wrote:any insider on the police wireless net could probably keep tabs
on which units were rushing to scene. and a mole just watching live TV could cue the shooters onto this target of opportunity.
they were well trained in shooting...in jewish center one guy on 4th floor roof took out a shopkeeper on road with a single well aimed shot per his brother who was inside the shop.
This I can agree that could have happened.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Patni »

ramana wrote:
Patni, may be after the shooting spree at CST they were tasked to go to hospital to get the injured people in the melee. This was done in Punjab by Khalsitanis too. So its astandard TSP/ISI tactic.

The ATS chief and squad got ambushed by these two and thats the simple thing. It was just unfortunate.

BTW have you ever me the babu log? They always travel together so they can exchange thoughts and go over things.
I know the area quiet well for years, used to pass through azad maidan police station. The Cama terrace as a vantage point is well thought out and I dont think was a coincidence that they picked cama hospital. By the way The cama and albless hospital is a for women and children only anyone local to mumbai will know it and none of the injured or dead in terror attack will be taken to cama. They would all be rushed to G.T. Hospital which is only 200 meter to north of cama. Infact i had read reports mentioning they even attacked G.T. Hospital but havent read any definative follow up reports on that.

All our tv media was showing live coverage of ATS chief at CST after terrorists moved to cama. I saw myself footage of Qualis he was riding in been shown leaving CST and turning in
to road on which the vehicle was ambushed.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Sachin »

ramana wrote:Wasnt this Raman Shrivastava the guy who created the false cases on the ISRO scientists in Kerala and thus put back the cryogenic engine by a few years? If so good luck! another fixer to the fore?
If my memory serves right Raman Srivastava was among the list of the accused in the case. The other accused being the scientists from ISRO. The man who began this controversy was a Inspector of Police S. Vijayan (known as Smart Vijayan). This chap is still in service, now a Dy.S.P in the Administration wing. He was in the same building which had the DGP's office.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Lalmohan »

in terms of timeline - in between the 5 x 2 man teams hitting their first targets and the marcos showing up - they booby trapped the taxis, walked to the hotels, did their initial shooting and then were busy with their torture and maiming until some serious response showed up - then on they ditched their 'hostages' and went into urban combat mode. that's a lot to remember in terms of mission planning - extremely likely that some officer types were guiding them and perhaps checking in with intel monitoring types - either in the city or elsewhere watching the media. foot soldiers to do the killing and dying, chikna suits to do the thinking and walk away before it got hot.

this is more sophisticated than previous LET ops I think.


the use of drugs might have increased the barbarity of the torture and killing. btw - please treat the tales of booby trapped victims with some caution - whilst you can obviously booby trap bodies, some of the things being claimed are quite difficult to do medically speaking. i however have no doubt that these scum did some very bad things
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Patni »

Trying to get more time accuracy i stumbled on to...

They saw the terrorists in Leopold Cafe
December 02, 2008 09:18 IST

Anamika Gupta, Meenakshi Sadu, Sarika [Images] Upadhyay and Rashika Pandit strolled along the stretch of Colaba on Wednesday evening, shopping for a wedding due next week.

After a long fun-filled shopping spree, they stopped by the Leopold Cafe [Images] later in evening. Little did they know that this exciting evening would land at the hospital with bullet injuries�..

Lying on their beds in J J Hospital, Anamika (28), a beautician, narrates to rediff.com about what she saw and her experience at the Cafe Leopold.

"It is my brother's wedding next week and four of us were to go to Varanasi for that. We never knew that we would land up here (at the hospital) when we left our homes for shopping in Colaba," said Anamika who is severely injured with three bullets in her stomach and one in her leg.

Rashika and I were at the Citywalk purchasing footwear while Meenakshi and Sarika were behind us shopping something else. At about 9:45, all of us tired of shopping, gathered at Cafe Leopold to grab a bite," continued Anamika struggling for breath.

Meenakshi (25), also a beautician who works with Anamika said, "All of us were laughing and teasing each other. I was busy clicking pictures of all of us together and a picture of a God above the counter in the cafe. We sat in the middle of the cafe a little close to the exit."

Adjusting herself, Anamika continued, "One of the terrorist (which we didn't know then) was sitting right in front of us and the other was sitting on a table a little further. We saw them and they looked like any other good-looking college boys.

Lying in the adjacent bed, Sarika (34) interrupted, "We just finished placing our orders when we heard a loud noise. We thought it must be some kind of a short circuit as we saw some sparks."

In matter of less than five minutes these boys started firing randomly," said the mother of a four year old boy who has fractured her left leg with severe gun powder blisters in her arms and right leg up to the abdomen.

Painfully Anamika said, "They looked so normal, that nobody could have even imagined that they could be terrorists who could attack us in just another five minutes. They were well dressed, well educated and looked like any other guest at the cafe."

Meenakshi continues, "That evening, the boy who was sitting in front of us was the one who got caught by the police." whose left leg is fractured with bullet pieces inside her bone with severely bruised back as a bullet rubbed past her.

After narrating the whole incident, Anamika recollected, "My friend's mother prepares food for paying guests. Sarika and I live near the Nariman house and we could see boys exercising every morning on the Nariman House terrace. That building is Israeli dominated and they give out rooms to college students. They provide shelter and food to them. My friend's mother was told that there are a new set of boys who have come to the house and they need food. It is very surprising that these boys used to go to general stores and buy huge amount of dry fruits and also leave behind a huge sum as tip. It never came across anybody that these people could be terrorists."

Meenakshi has bullet pieces in her left leg that is yet to be operated on, she said, "Bullet pieces went inside my bone and there are multiple injuries on my leg. The doctors say that because of multiple injuries they can't operate on my leg."

When all of them will be discharged only time will tell. As of now, Rashika has undergone a major surgery in the head and the others are still recovering.
MM wonder if the girlie-boy was spotted at cafe Leopold??? First that i am reading that! beside timeline doesnt match up if he was at leopold at close to 10PM he couldn't be at CST at about same time. So maybe a DDM job here in goofing up or the victims confused about who they really saw??
Last edited by ramana on 04 Dec 2008 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added high lights in color. ramana
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

PAtni, MS Visio has a timeline template which you can use to fill in the facts.

Folks I need a ~ ten slide ppt on MUmbai Terrorist attacks which address:

Where the attacks took place_ list them and use patni's jpg
Who were the perpetrators? L-e-T try to get pics of the pigs.
What kind of backing they had from TSP- trg, logistics, materials (POF markings on bullets & timers used for bombs,) PN charting the route
Who the victims were sample names age occupation and pix.
Chabad House attack and why did it happen-
- Empahsis on earlier Dutch hostage executed by Al-Faran in Kashmir in 1992. ehtnicity and religion.

Need to emphasize this is a commando style raid harking back to the razza days of Arabic Islam. Not just a terrorist attack. Show how it is more involved than mere suicide bombing. The trg, the planning and all that shows the details that went into it. By same token 911 is also a terroist strike if this one is.

Who is game? It has to be a team effort. I dont need any nimrod to put it together.
----------------------------------
Most likely the victims were confused. But if they were so close to where they were sitting then they cant be confused. Also gives lie to the village idiot story of the Kasab guy if the girls thoguht they looked college educated. OTH may be they mistook the Versace tshirt for the educated look. In that case shows the level of detailed planning to mimic Mumbai college/Y gen crowd. Need to give him double dose of that narco test.

Also look at the occuaption of those girls. It wasn't all Page 3 types who got injured or killed. The DDM & TV channels concentrated on the CEOs etc and are now coming ot document the mango people.
Raju

Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Raju »

Mumbai Attacks Likely Gangland, CIA, ISI Turf War

makes sense if Dawood name is replaced by ISI or *someone very powerful*.

different source, similar article

Mumbai attacks more complicated than corporate press reports
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by svinayak »

Raju wrote:Mumbai Attacks Likely Gangland, CIA, ISI Turf War

makes sense if Dawood name is replaced by ISI or *someone very powerful*.

different source, similar article

Mumbai attacks more complicated than corporate press reports
With this kind of thing it looses credibility.
However, according to Asian intelligence sources, Qasab may have been trained by Hindu militants and was rushed to the scene of the attack for a photo opportunity hastily arranged by the Hindu right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) propaganda team.
One Asian intelligence source who has spent a great deal of time in Pakistan reports that he has “never seen a haircut like his [Qasab’s] in Pakistan or on either side of Line of Control in Kashmir.”
Last edited by svinayak on 04 Dec 2008 21:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by enqyoob »

Raju, why are you posting these, please? Just curious. They seem to be (well, let me not prejudge...)
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by svinayak »

Patni wrote:
ramana wrote:
Patni, may be after the shooting spree at CST they were tasked to go to hospital to get the injured people in the melee. This was done in Punjab by Khalsitanis too. So its astandard TSP/ISI tactic.

The ATS chief and squad got ambushed by these two and thats the simple thing. It was just unfortunate.

BTW have you ever me the babu log? They always travel together so they can exchange thoughts and go over things.
I know the area quiet well for years, used to pass through azad maidan police station. The Cama terrace as a vantage point is well thought out and I dont think was a coincidence that they picked cama hospital. By the way The cama and albless hospital is a for women and children only anyone local to mumbai will know it and none of the injured or dead in terror attack will be taken to cama. They would all be rushed to G.T. Hospital which is only 200 meter to north of cama. Infact i had read reports mentioning they even attacked G.T. Hospital but havent read any definative follow up reports on that.

All our tv media was showing live coverage of ATS chief at CST after terrorists moved to cama. I saw myself footage of Qualis he was riding in been shown leaving CST and turning in
to road on which the vehicle was ambushed.
Since you know this area can you explain the significance of all these locations which the terrorist went.

Cama hospital info is important.

What time was the live coverage of the ATS vehicle
Raju

Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Raju »

N^3 that I posted the article does not mean I endorse every word of that article. It just looks at events from a different PoV.

the more the facts/gossips/tidbits on the table the better.

>> With this kind of thing it looses credibility.

article not written by experienced India hands. Probably their way of saying 'snitch' or 'inside guy'.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Patni »

ramana wrote:PAtni, MS Visio has a timeline template which you can use to fill in the facts.

Folks I need a ~ ten slide ppt on MUmbai Terrorist attacks which address:

Where the attacks took place_ list them and use patni's jpg
Who were the perpetrators? L-e-T try to get pics of the pigs.
What kind of backing they had from TSP- trg, logistics, materials (POF markings on bullets & timers used for bombs,) PN charting the route
Who the victims were sample names age occupation and pix.
Chabad House attack and why did it happen-
- Empahsis on earlier Dutch hostage executed by Al-Faran in Kashmir in 1992. ehtnicity and religion.

Need to emphasize this is a commando style raid harking back to the razza days of Arabic Islam. Not just a terrorist attack. Show how it is more involved than mere suicide bombing. The trg, the planning and all that shows the details that went into it. By same token 911 is also a terroist strike if this one is.

Who is game? It has to be a team effort. I dont need any nimrod to put it together.
----------------------------------
Most likely the victims were confused. But if they were so close to where they were sitting then they cant be confused. Also gives lie to the village idiot story of the Kasab guy if the girls thoguht they looked college educated. OTH may be they mistook the Versace tshirt for the educated look. In that case shows the level of detailed planning to mimic Mumbai college/Y gen crowd. Need to give him double dose of that narco test.

Also look at the occuaption of those girls. It wasn't all Page 3 types who got injured or killed. The DDM & TV channels concentrated on the CEOs etc and are now coming ot document the mango people.

Count me in. I have a collection of links and pictures that I want to make a proper chronicle of events with as accurate a time line as i can construct. On saturday I plan to visit all the spots in person with my camera. I propose that the presentation be made on google doc online for it to be fast and collaborative effort. I already had asked for any one interested to send me email or leave a comment on that google map so can start collaborative work. Just started A presentation on google doc.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Lalmohan »

media reports say that karkare was on his way to cama to see the injured cop - why was he at cama and not jj? therefore the piglets went to cama ON ORDERS to intercept karakare and make a decapitation strike. miss piggy and his girlfriend were the 'sweeper' squad on this mission - the others had orders to get to the hotels, these two had orders to do the rearguard and cause a distraction. the karkare 'hit' may have had an element of luck - but it lends strong credence to the handlers watching from a distance theory.

i doubt the handlers landed by boat - they came earlier, probably look at home in the lobby of the taj. maybe arabs and/or pakjabis of the RAPE variety, i.e. serving ISI officers - sent to ensure that the mission succeeded

this points the finger all the way up the chain of command to Kiyani - this is no random LET tamasha folks
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Patni »

Acharya wrote:
Since you know this area can you explain the significance of all these locations which the terrorist went.

Cama hospital info is important.

What time was the live coverage of the ATS vehicle
My gut feeling is the timing was well thoughtout. They could have caused casualties by 1000 at CST itself at about 6:30PM being peak hours when CST sees human flow of as much as 2000 ppl per minute passing through. But also means road traffic would have been heavy and they couldn't use the cover of darkness that they used in hiding behind trees in cama compound. They could have gone to the Churchgate station (Comes on the way to CST from Badhwar park) but think CST was picked for its proximity to Police headquarter as well as to azadmaidan police station and ofcourse plenty of thick trees in cama compound as well as next door Xaviers college. Beside I strongly suspect involvement of D-company with well known connections to some real estate in near locality of Manish market and Crawford market. see the link and here. All in all i think there were two subplots in these attacks. D company might have scripted the girly boy's part to suit its agenda while the attacks on taj and trident and nairman house by paki establishment. Same pattern was seen during 93 blasts by tiger mammon. I think there sure was a live intel being fed to two napakis from local handlers and it was a setup to have multiple goals archived and create havoc in mumbai which they sure did achieve.

The live footage of ATS chief trying on bullet proof vests at CST was streaming at about 10:05 PM. They didn't show his vehicle going towards cama on live tv then but i did see the footage show on tv the next day. Plenty of onlookers and media about so very easy for a lookout/handler to be keeping tabs on things. Remember we now know the pigs stayed hidden on cama tarrace for close to 30 min. Now surely they didnt all of a sudden needed a nap before getting ready for next round of mayhem. Also they didnt hijack any vehicle before the ambush and also didnt resort to indiscriminate firing at sizable crowd at metro junction surely they did fire few rounds and injured two ppl. but they speeded off like if trying to make a gateway after mission was over. Remember they waste 30 min on camma tarrace and then all of a sudden they are in rush to get down ambush police vehicle then make a gate away towards north! From time line i have managed to chalkup they ran into police roadblock exactly 10 to 15 min from the time they got off the cama terrace. And they managed to kill 3 senior officers of Mumbai police force and since acted as if task was done and was time to see if they can escape.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

There is a Rediff article about the head Constable Jadhav(?) who was shot and in the vehicle. It said that the ATS leadership went to the Cama Hospital to talk to their colleague Date who was earlier injured to get an idea of whats going on. Maybe the Police radio was being monitored by someone and the pigs got their ambush ready?
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Rye »

Wonder if all the police radios of the slain officers accounted for. The terrorists could have just as easily taken the police radio of one of the slain officers, and been listening to the entire operation. Given the lack of preparedness that was evident, it is not clear if the police switched frequencies regularly to ensure that the other side was not being enabled by the chatter/communication in the police band radio.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

Rye,Good to see you. Thanks for coming back.

ramana
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Patni »

Lalmohan wrote:media reports say that karkare was on his way to cama to see the injured cop - why was he at cama and not jj? therefore the piglets went to cama ON ORDERS to intercept karakare and make a decapitation strike. miss piggy and his girlfriend were the 'sweeper' squad on this mission - the others had orders to get to the hotels, these two had orders to do the rearguard and cause a distraction. the karkare 'hit' may have had an element of luck - but it lends strong credence to the handlers watching from a distance theory.

i doubt the handlers landed by boat - they came earlier, probably look at home in the lobby of the taj. maybe arabs and/or pakjabis of the RAPE variety, i.e. serving ISI officers - sent to ensure that the mission succeeded

this points the finger all the way up the chain of command to Kiyani - this is no random LET tamasha folks

From whats covered in local Marathi press Shri Vijay Salaskar who was an encounter specialist and exposed the gutkha-underworld link, might have been the real target of D company and they got lucky in catching ATS chief shri karkare and addl. com. shri kamte. Remember the three police constable who died in same ambush were from salaskar's team. Remember also before the taj and trident incident came to prominence, Mumbai police was handling the shootout with assumption that it was a gang war related by underworld and not as terror attack. The police headquarter dispatched the news of senior police officer of crime branch (Salskar was posted in the crime branch which has its office next door to cama in azadmaidan police station) being injured in gunfight at cama hospital. Injured cop wasnt taken to cama for treatment but got injured by terrorists coming down from cama terrace. They hide behind trees and ambush the vehicle barely 300 meters from CST. That road called mahapalika marg has CST at its south west end and metro junction to its north east is barely 800 meters long. One can easily see from CST end to all the way to Metro end. There were literally 100 of live tv media ppl. at both CST end and Metro end with plenty of police personnel.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by SandeepA »

The 10-piglet from a boat theory doesnt make sense to me. If 2 each were involved in the Nariman House and the CST-Cama-Leopold attacks it still leaves just 6 for the 2 hotels. So 3 piglets holding a 10-15 storey hotel hostage for 60 hours facing off cops, personal injuries, sleeplessness, commandos and having time to booby-trap rooms, kill-torture hostages etc etc. Makes no sense. How could so few carry rations and ammunition that lasted so long? Whatever happened to the theory of a few additional piglets taking up rooms in the hotel? What about the theory that cops expected only one more piglet alive and it turned out to be 4 more at Taj on the final day? During the seige didnt we hear about 2 or 3 more piglets captured alive?
Something doesnt add up.
Piglets 10
Places attacked 7-8
Total hours 60
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

SandeepA, Also look at the story of the girl who talks about her friend's mother who has a catering business that was ordered to provide extra meals and the large tips for ordering dry fruit provisions.

I think the Nariman House attack was by some one already renting in that palce. They came earlier. And shouldnt be counted as among the ten boat people. That would allow them the time to do the torture and executions. But must be very adept to do so many things- torture, murder, throw grenades at fire-engines, shoot out with commandoes and hold out till next days.

So now do the math.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by Patni »

X-posting from other thread on which i had posted it 3 days back

witness-account-of-karkare-kamte-and-salaskars-death

Quote:
Injured Constable Arun Jadhav was in the vehicle whose tyre burst when the desperadoes had commandeered it in their attempt to flee from police chase.

Karkare, encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar and Additional Commissioner of Police Ashok Kamte, who were all travelling in the same vehicle, were shot dead along with three constables by the terrorists.

The top officers were on way to Cama Hospital, just a 10-minute drive from CST station, to check on another injured officer Sadanand Date.

"When we were informed that Sadanand Date has been injured at the firing in Cama Hospital Karkare, Kamte, Salaskar and four constables left from CST to the spot.

"Five minutes later, two persons carrying AK-47 rifles emerged from behind a tree and started firing at out vehicle," said Jadhav, who was hit by two bullets in his right arm and is recuperating in the Bombay Hospital.

Quote:
"The two terrorists then came up to our vehicle and pulled out Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar's bodies out and threw them on the road. Thinking that we (Constables) are also dead, the terrorists then got into the car and started driving towards Metro junction," Jadhav said.

They fired three rounds at journalists and police vans standing at Metro junction and then sped away towards Vidhan Bhawan in south Mumbai, where again they fired some rounds.

"The terrorists then started driving from Vidhan Bhawan when the car's tyre burst. They then got off the car and ran towards another vehicle," he said.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by enqyoob »

throw grenades at fire-engines
That's not all they did with the grenades, but out of consideration for our friends browsing here, I will not amplify on that. Those pigs MUST be tracked to their masters, who must experience something commensurate, multiplied a few times.
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by HariC »

ramana wrote:
Who the victims were sample names age occupation and pix. .

I am working on this - I have a worksheet with locations and remarks for nearly 115 of the victims. I will host this soon for common editing and distribution
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Post by ramana »

patni the whole sequence of events at Cama Hospital has to be reconstructed. Why was it ene target? After teh CST shooting the two terrorists went to the hospital and got into a shootut with S Date and injured him. Waht is at Cama hospital to attract these fellows? And what did they plan to do where they were going in the Skoda? I know the nakabandi stopped them but what were there plans?
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