Bharat Rakshak

Mecca is the repository of Islamic faith, being one of the five pillars. Idolatry does not begin to describe the reverence for Mecca. Hence the vulnerability that conveniently renegade American instructor seeks to exploit.

Dharma is holographically encoded in India. Whether it is Prayag or a stone shrine along a road in Tamil Nadu, Hindus' religious relationship to the physical geography is diffuse.

harbans wrote:

My point is that however, for the Saudis or Islamists in general - a destruction of their "rocks" does imply final defeat of their gods, or their qyamat/apocalypse, and an all out effort to destory all others or perish in the process. Those who survive will have no faith left.

Good post B' Ji. One query comes to mind, and i have had it for a long time. Why would Islamism end with destruction of some 'rocks'? I agree Dharma will not end, but why should Islamism? Is it more rooted in 'Idol sanctity' than say our Dharmic faiths are? If so why? They do loudly clamor against Idolism.

Will go OT! It has to do with the Islamic theory of qyamat. Briefly their version of world view and life is a one-shot game. There is just one instance of life and universe unlike the repetitive/cyclical version of the Meso-american and Indian. If you look at the relevant suras and the ahadith about this - you will see the explicit connections to the "rock". In the final days it will grow eyes and wings and will fly away before all is destroyed - the "good" folks get infinite pleasure in the company of Jesus+all prophets+CinC, and the "bad" ones get infinite pain - and all that happens for ever after. There is no mention of a restart.

sanjaykumar wrote:Mecca is the repository of Islamic faith, being one of the five pillars. Idolatry does not begin to describe the reverence for Mecca. Hence the vulnerability that conveniently renegade American instructor seeks to exploit.

Dharma is holographically encoded in India. Whether it is Prayag or a stone shrine along a road in Tamil Nadu, Hindus' religious relationship to the physical geography is diffuse.

Well said. Plus, we have Vedic memes of destruction and deracination from a 'holy place', leading to exteriorization. The Bhagavad Gita starts with "dharmakshetre"... Also, AFAIK the Vedic worship permits no permanent establishment of temples, etc. The structure is burned down and any icons, if used, are immersed in a river or ocean. So dharma is logically and practically transcendental to material property considerations.

Admittedly, Islam does have a much more entrenched attachment to the protection of its holy land and the ka'aba. Its destruction will have a much more profound deracinating effect, possibly flipping and making its adherents more 'other worldly'. I have come across references to a hadith where the Prophet Mohammad did predict that a "barbaric tribe out of the south (presumably Africa)" will come one day and destroy the ka'aba. Some Sufi types do understand it as a prelude to a rapture.

Carl wrote:"barbaric tribe out of the south" will come one day and destroy the ka'aba.

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I didn't quite get the mire here, but anyways..thanks B Ji/ Sanjay ji.

To get back on this subject, i think modern times one pillar of Islamism and the most important is being rightly rejected quite openly including in unofficial Govt circles and official statements..that of Jihad (not quite there, but it's happening). I find that positive and it's become quite normal to even discuss and openly abhor Jihadi's even when talking with Muslims. Jihadism as mentioned quite openly in the Hadith/ Koran is targeted at the 'unbeliever' and it is being knocked down whether by drones or in living rooms across continents. There is no redeemable image that can be given to Jihadi's anywhere.

Another though not a 'pillar' that is being knocked down in Islamist doctrine is that of the Kufr. It's not acceptable anywhere, even in liberal circles. So there has been progress in tackling Islamism doctrinally one can see.

While the internet/ open discussions have been a boon in educating people and making them aware of what some doctrines are all about, the physical aspect of battling doctrine has been limited to the IA ops against the Kashmiri Jihadi's, PA/ ISI launched LeT and others, US drone attacks, and some odd cases of imprisonment/ cases in UK or France against peddlars of the Islamist stuff in mosques etc.

Unlike the common inference that Dharma ( I mention not Hinduism)..which is the major faith in India..is idol worship, most would be surprised that a few targets on holy sites will not destroy Dharma. It is much deeper than they have envisaged. Yet Islamism the epitome of anti idolatry will collapse or even defend rocks..is something to dwell on.

Somethings in Islam never fitted in place with it's rigid anti idolatory stance..worshipping in a particular direction. Reverence of a stone. This needs more debating/ discussion space and time, probably more so than debating the calling for it's destruction and it's effect.