Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Asha

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Jan 2013 20:29

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negi wrote:Shri MMS ji ko prem-poorvak samarpit .

"Wah khoon kaho kis matlab ka
Jisme ubaal ka naam nahi
Wah khoon kaho kis matlab ka
Aa sakey desh ke kaam nahi

Wah khoon kaho kis matlab ka
Jisme jeevan na ravaani hai
Jo parvash mein hokar behta hai
Wah khoon nahi hai paani hai"

Translation

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 09 Jan 2013 20:55

Sushupti wrote:Grow up! Tit for tat is not Pakistan policy: Hina Rabbani

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 130109.htm

She must have been given a nice pat on her arse by GHQ for rubbing it in. Look guys, India is in a dilemma. On the one hand, escalating is just exactly what TSP and US want. Or the second best, bogus UN involvement which again means US. Basically, like 26/11, TSP has sent a message to whom in it needs to and now its its laughter, Bollywood, scotch whisky time at the GHQ watching "impending super power" India browbeaten and humiliated and crying with impotent rage.

The best answer to this IMO would be for the Indian army to quietly retaliate, not barbarically, but cause real pain to Kiyani & Co at GHQ. But are they capable is the question on my mind. Maybe they are, I don't know.

Here is my take on what probably happened. TSP must hve tried some usual hara kiri the other day. Indian army fought per rules of war on LOC, shelling, taking out posts etc. TSP lost in this encounter and hence all the noises they made in the international media. So to send a message to Indian army, they probably sent in 20 odd of their special ops commandos to pick the weaket spot along the LOC and commit this atrocty as a way of telling India, don't you dare try to do what you did the other day. I am sure Indian army could do the same, but then the tit for tat will go on.

As I said above, the Kiyani & Co must feel the pain. Easier for me say this, than can be accomplished on the ground. But first step, stop Aman Ki Tamasha.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 09 Jan 2013 21:16

Sushupti wrote:

Pathetic.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 09 Jan 2013 21:24

Severed head of Indian soldier yet to be found: Army

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Severed ... 957413.cms

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2013 21:31

If they cant retaliate against the TSP atrocity, the Indian Army should atleast learn how to speak and not give pathetic news copy for DIEhard media to twist.
Which moron spoke those lines and which cretin wrote that headline? I know its TOI the fountainhead of Aman ki Tamasha that has hosted it.
---------------
Correction: PTI the most virulent anti-national news agency of India wrote the headline.
Dont know why they call themselves Press Trust of India. Neither Press nor Trust nor Indian.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 09 Jan 2013 22:12

I hope LN Hemadar & Sudhakar Singh find peace and their families sadness is shared by the nation.

The IA will respond as it always does, honorably and with the best interests of the civilization it defends in mind.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 09 Jan 2013 22:12

Expecting the GOI, to attack TSP or punish it after having spent the last 4 years rehabilitating it is a a fools hope.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 09 Jan 2013 22:45

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 09 Jan 2013 22:55

^^ Excellent from Sardesai ji, I fully agree. Let us have piss all over in South Asia onlee.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 09 Jan 2013 23:06

Xpost from TSP thread.

rgsrini wrote:Finally, a decisive action by India. We have paid back with interest. This should teach all pakis who try to attack us. India will love bomb your sorry as.s! Take that!
Visa-on-arrival for Pak nationals above 65 yrs

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Jan 2013 23:16

rgsrini wrote:Xpost from TSP thread.
rgsrini wrote:Finally, a decisive action by India. We have paid back with interest. This should teach all pakis who try to attack us. India will love bomb your sorry as.s! Take that!
Visa-on-arrival for Pak nationals above 65 yrs

Doesn't General Flower belong in this age group? I guess, he is free to travel to India and spread love and affection.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Jan 2013 23:18

CRamS wrote:
Sushupti wrote:Grow up! Tit for tat is not Pakistan policy: Hina Rabbani

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 130109.htm

Bewaqoof Barkin g Babe

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 10 Jan 2013 01:20

KC Singh is in overdrive and interrupts Mani Shankar Aiyar. Can see the pain and frustration in his face. We are approaching a boiling point. This government has to go.

http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/314862/is- ... sible.html

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 10 Jan 2013 01:22

Last year we supposedly responded with a SF strike on a border post killing 4 puki's to a similar incident. One hopes a similar response will be taken now also.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 Jan 2013 02:45

BBC: India moves to cool Kashmir row becomes Kashmir shooting: India's Kurshid warns on escalation when you click the link

And we banned people from the forum for making inflammatory headings.

Then see the Kurshit sh*t all over the place.

India had conveyed its anxiety "very clearly" to the Pakistani high commissioner when he was summoned to the foreign ministry in Delhi, said External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid.

"We cannot and must not allow escalation of this very unwholesome event that has taken place," Mr Khurshid said.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 10 Jan 2013 02:51

It used to be said that Prussia was an army with a state. In India today you have government by NGO, and this inadequacy is reflected in the loss of strategic focus and space since 1999, and 2002 when Donald Rumsfeld as US Sec-Def offered the nuclear deal to India to dissuade any retaliation for the Parliament and subsequent attacks.
If there was a gold medal for semantic posturing, Pakistan would be the outright winner, and therefore it is pointless for India to engage in a PR campaign.
What this incident reveals is the alignment between the PRC and the USA when it comes to supporting Pakistan, and it is incumbent upon India to stress this and the David Headley factor should the US try any equal==equal treatment. It might be useful to increase imports of oil from Iran - sanctions be damned.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 10 Jan 2013 03:04

saravana wrote:No one is better to trust in these times than a retired Colonel.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/this-is- ... 81776.html

According to retired Colonel Ajai Shukla, Strategic Affairs Editor of Business Standard, the incident while horrific, isn’t unusual at the Line of Control between India and Pakistan.

“This is nothing unusual. It is possibly a response to the exchange of firing in Uri sector of the LoC a few days ago,” he said, while speaking to Rajdeep Sardesai on CNN-IBN.

He said that India should not act like it was a victim in the attack.

“The Line of Control is an inherently brutal place. It is not as if the Indian army is sitting over there and the Pakistan army is coming there and violating it. This is give and take. They routinely attack each other,” he said.
It reminds me of a wedding event called Nalangu, where silly games are played between groom and the bride. Since it is all sounds very whimiscal, I am in favour of more Aman.

May be ajai shukla was trying to tell us that we need not worry , REVENGE will be taken. And that need not be advertised on national television.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 10 Jan 2013 03:08

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/r ... epage=true

The construction work — barred by the terms of the Line of Control ceasefire which India and Pakistan agreed on in 2003 — provoked furious protests from Pakistani troops. Indian commanders, the military source said, conceded that the construction was in violation of the ceasefire.

The skirmishes there had earlier claimed the life of Border Security Force constable P.K. Mishra and Indian Army soldier Harvinder Singh. The fighting in the summer also began with disputes over the construction of new border outposts by India.

The Hindu formally blames Indian Army for starting the border skirmish. Congratulations, we have found our friend.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 10 Jan 2013 03:51

This DFLKJE/&#¤/#&¤#/&¤ Hindu news agency does not know the terms and conditions of the Lahore Peace accord or the Simla Accord but is happy to tomtom 2003 accord details. Only goes to show that any agreement with Pakistan is not worth the value of the paper but Uber-Intellectuals in Hindu cannot or do not want to show it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Jan 2013 08:05

X-post from TSP thread

arun wrote:Praveen Swami of the Hindu with a story claimed to be an “exclusive” on the beheading of Indian soldiers.
Runaway grandmother sparked savage skirmish on LoC

From the above,

. . . government sources in New Delhi said a Pakistani Border Action Team — assault units that in the past have been reported to consist of both jihadists and members of the élite Special Services Group — are believed to have carried out the attack.

I suspected the involvement of jihadi elements in this though the SSG, by itself, is capable of doing such horrendous stuff. I even mentioned this in one of my posts. The SSG has had close nexus with and been influenced by jihadists for a long time. This was supposed to give them an extra killer instinct. It is not only LeT. That was why quite a few from SSG left it and joined AQAM after 9/11 happened.

partha · Post by **partha** » 10 Jan 2013 08:18

I think Pakistan just showed us the trailer of what it plans to do post 2014 US withdrawal.

partha · Post by **partha** » 10 Jan 2013 08:25

Guys,

Just observe the reactions from the Pakis. The same Pakis who were pushing for India to not retaliate after 2008 Mumbai attacks are now slyly justifying the beheading by their army as a retaliation to Indian attack. Has anyone from our media pointed this out to Pakis on various shows? Zafar Hilaly on Times Now denied Pak army hand in the attacks but justified it saying it was a retaliation to Indian aggression!

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Jan 2013 08:29

RoyG wrote:KC Singh is in overdrive and interrupts Mani Shankar Aiyar. Can see the pain and frustration in his face. We are approaching a boiling point. This government has to go.

http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/314862/is- ... sible.html

If MMS bhakt and peace lover ( he was one who kept saying no action after 26/11) KC Singh has to get so riled up, can imagine tipping points being reached even in babu-dom.

( Btw, didnt watch the vidoe and assuming KC Singh was absolutely livid since i boycott any video featuring that piece of %^#&, MSA, since my BP shoots up even seeing his horrible grin)

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Jan 2013 10:54

The Hindu has in a front page report said that the whole spat started of a few months ago by illegal crossing of the LOC by a "72 yr. old grandmother (!)" and other villagers from our side.Realising that there was a gap in our defences,the IA allegedly started to build posts (supposedly against an understanding with the Pakis)facing the village and not towards the Pakis,who strongly objected to then being built.Despite the IA explaining the reasons the Pakis kept up the onjections, one thing led to another with the Pakis opening fire,exchanges of fire,paki soldiers killed and the latest barbaric outrage from the Paki special forces.

Whatever the truth of the matter,and according to some of our retd. IA panellists on telly channels,at the local level on the LOC,every year "stuff happens".Both sides in the difficult to demarcate LOC do cross over and tit for tat exchanges sometimes take place.Our Northern Commander has supposedly said that we will respond to "a time and place of our choosing" and the panellists said that it would happen.A recent issue of the IMR had a feature on the proposed fencing of the 740KM LOC with an "all-weather" fence which would be able to deter intruders much better.This must be accelerated asap.

Leaving all these local factors on the ground,the key issue and there is unanimous agreement on this subject is ,what is the GOI's policy towards continuous Paki aggression? MK Bhadrakumar was shut up quick after his hilarious statement that there has been "peace" (in our time surely),on the LOC,forgetting the constant cross-border terrorism,26/11,etc.,etc. Diplomat Shiv Shankar Mukherjee said that the "peace" has been very profitable...to pak,who have realised that the GOI is unwilling to take any action despite the worst provocations and has fooled the world community thanks to India's inaction in response to every act of terror.The "peace industry" in Delhi with quislings,NGOs-foreign funded,peaceniks,who have a vested interest in collaborating with Pak,look for easy excuses to avoid biting the bullet.Unfortunately for our current corrupt ruling clique,the people of India have in recent weeks realised that not only is security within the country non-existant,especially for women,but that even our borders are open to violation by the barbarians of Pak.Enough is enough.

The very least that the GOI can do now is to call off sporting links with Pak,kick out their ambassador and some of his military/ISI flunkeys and seal the border,allowing no movement of Pakis onto Indian soil.The IA can be given the "green signal" in private to take whatever action it feels adequate to deter the Pakis from future acts of such kind. An additional action is required,to warn the Yanqui sponsors of the Pakis to clean up their act with Pak,otherwise we will also hold them culpable as accessories to the crimes,as they continue to provide the Pakis and the generals with arms and massive aid.

PS:There is also a PRC angle to the spat.The PRC is p^ssed off with India's "Look East policy and is afraid of India's growing clout in the Far east.It desperately wants Pak to create a diversion so that the emphasis in recent times,where the eastern defences and strike forces of the country are being upgraded and increased,be brought back to the traditional preoccupation with pak.India also doing nothing against pak-with push from the US, while Pak was engaged in fighting its own battle against Islamist anti-Pak forces,has actually allowed Pak a "breather",only to see it resort to its usual fare of perfidy.If the Gujral doctrine bordered upon treason,the Singh doctrine has raised the white flag...or dhoti even before the firing started!

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 10 Jan 2013 12:57

Does Manmohan want to be seen as Pak’s appeaser-in-chief? - Firstpost by R. Jagannathan

We stand alone, and dealing with Pakistan calls for strategic thinking. But this, as Chellaney points out, is completely lacking in Manmohan Singh and his government, including the latest External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid who talked of a “proportionate response” from Pakistan on the recent LOC killings.

In fact, the Prime Minister’s body language and wordage show that India is willing to repeatedly appease Pakistan to buy some modicum of peace.

Chellaney offers these quotes from Manmohan Singh’s references to Pakistan to make his point.

The PM said after one meeting with former Pakistani PM Yousaf Raza Gilani: “We both recognise that if there is another attack like Mumbai, it will be a setback to the normalisation of relations.” Chellaney notes: “In other words, if there were another Mumbai-style terrorist attack, it will merely be a ‘setback’ to ties – that, too, a temporary setback followed by Indian concessions.”

On another occasion, the PM said: “India-Pakistan relations are prone to accidents.” Chellaney’s comment: “Were the attacks on the Indian Parliament and Red Fort, the Mumbai terrorist strikes, and the myriad other Pakistan-scripted outrages just ‘accidents’? Will the latest savagery (the body mutilation on the LOC) also be treated as another ‘accident’ after the current public indignation fades?”

The Pakistani state is fortunate to have Manmohan Singh as its appeaser-in-chief. Is this what the PM wants to be noted for by history?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 10 Jan 2013 13:17

NSA SS Menon to address a press conference in response to the recent LoC incidents at 2.30pm IST. Lets see if there will be a response

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Jan 2013 13:34

^^ Wont hold my breath on that.

Wasnt this the same NSA who publicly contradicted his IN chief by saying that journos made a big deal and what was said by IN chief was not correct.

My only worry is that the Uri commander (whose name has been splashed all over DDM by motivated leaks from PMO/MHA) whom everyone is now blaming for starting chain of events leading to beheading isnt made to suffer by a transfer/harsh appraisal etc.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 10 Jan 2013 13:48

shyamd wrote:NSA SS Menon to address a press conference in response to the recent LoC incidents at 2.30pm IST. Lets see if there will be a response

Nothing personal against you or anyone. And what I say might not even matter to folks in the policy circles. Nevertheless ....

Indian strategists have failed completely when dealing with Pakistan.
They allowed the bus diplomacy to happen and brought Kargil upon us.
They allow scum in Kashmir to thrive.
They allow foreign agencies to sponsor NGOs that call for Siachen to be made a peace valley.
They have a pathetic media management where India is consistently shown in poor light.
They have blood in their hands because it is the unarmed Indian populace that has been repeatedly attacked - all originating from Pakistan
They have allowed Pakis to steal nuclear weapons.
They cannot even convince a bunch of politicians to change their tact wrt TSP.

So when SS Menon speaks, we all know that his lot have failed and that has led to snuffing out of an Indian soldier's family and life. Seriously WHAT does it take for this lot to wake up and jolt the system? Whenthings have gotten from bad to worse one can only assume that they are not so much of an entity that is different from the netas....they are the same elite that faqin leeches off the common man on the street.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 10 Jan 2013 13:59

sum wrote:^^ Wont hold my breath on that.

Wasnt this the same NSA who publicly contradicted his IN chief by saying that journos made a big deal and what was said by IN chief was not correct.

My only worry is that the Uri commander (whose name has been splashed all over DDM by motivated leaks from PMO/MHA) whom everyone is now blaming for starting chain of events leading to beheading isnt made to suffer by a transfer/harsh appraisal etc.

This was a topic of discussion on twitter -Nitin Gokhale says from the highest levels they are saying nothing of that sort has been initiated. No inquiry into the events has been ordered either.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Jan 2013 14:27

Pakistan has killed more than 200 Indian jawans in the last four years, when the countries have not been at war.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 10 Jan 2013 14:38

I have noticed, that when we play cricket, do Aman ki Asha, increase contacts and generally start dealing with Paki;s as equal human beings they start becoming extra competitive, combative and aggressive. Sometimes this leads to throwing caution completely to the winds and unbridled aggression as seen n Kargil. They seem to equate our liberalism with them with the power to act combatively with the liberal SDRE. All major terror acts and acts of state aggression have been carried out by the Paki in bhai chara conditions.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Jan 2013 14:50

Harbans- anther when way of looking at it is when we do all these things they know GOI has the option of calling off the peace process, stopping cricket Blah blah.............

when these things are not there what option does GOI Have? So they dont provoke an aldready provoked nation.

so all these CBM's are a means to allow them to let of some steam in WKK speak with no consequence unless you are a poor Jawan or his family who has to deal with the real issue of yoru head or Kin's head being Beheaded.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 10 Jan 2013 15:18

What did NSA Menon say?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Jan 2013 15:39

krishnan wrote:
Pakistan has killed more than 200 Indian jawans in the last four years, when the countries have not been at war.

And when ~~India tied its hands behind its back~~ceasefire has been observed by India.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Jan 2013 15:41

abhishek_sharma wrote:What did NSA Menon say?

who cares what he says, talk is cheap. there needs to be PA AFSAR level body count for understanding what a bad action this was.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Jan 2013 15:57

harbans wrote:I have noticed, that when we play cricket, do Aman ki Asha, increase contacts and generally start dealing with Paki;s as equal human beings they start becoming extra competitive, combative and aggressive.

India's liberalism is misconstrued as weakness. I don't blame them either. Thy attack us, kill us and maim us. They would normally expect us to retaliate in some way. But, nothing happens for a while except India demanding Pakistan not to repeat because Indian leaders want this 'good conduct school leaving certificate' from the goras. After some time, India stops insisting and as the intensity of anger wanes within India, suddenly voices are heard that call for peace, dialogue, big brother, generosity, prodigal brother, strengthening democracy, peace constituency in Pakistan, diminishing returns for India from isolating Pakistan, people-to-people contact, trade etc. The impotent eunuch GoI takes refuge under this chorus of paid agents who clamour for talks.

It then initiates some new measures to make life easier for Pakistani terrorists to target India by easing Visa norms, restarting cricket/hockey tours etc.A Pakistan that was expecting a strong retaliation from an India which is seven times stronger than itself can only interpret this strange and inexplicable behaviour from its arch enemy as dhimmitude, a term they have all been taught to recognize among the Kafir. Over the decades, such repeated exhibition of dhimmitude by India has led Pakistani strategic analysts and planners to factor this behaviour into their plans. This means that they can continuously ratchet up the barbarity of their attacks on us without fear of retribution. The Pakistanis see cricket, hockey and kabaddi as extensions of their martial nature and whenever India is defeated in anyone of these games, it is interpreted as dhimmitude by Indian players. That is why, sports cannot bring a positive change in India-TSP relationship. When TSP wins, it then imbues them with an Islamist fervour that needs an outlet in the form of a jihadi action against us.

Indian analysts have begun saying that it is the possession of nuclear weapons by Pakistan that stops India in its tracks. I consider this as plainly a BS argument. One does not know what GoI thinks about the threat of nuclear weapons from Pakistan. But, such analysis by eminent Indians, emboldens the jihadists even more. It thus becomes a vicious cycle.

There is nothing possible with Pakistan. It does not want peace with India; it is bent upon an enduring hostility of an increasing kind. It does not want to be a responsible nation of this world because it is frustrated by its inability to take out India. We cannot assume that this unbridled hatred and animosity will somehow lead to its destruction one day or the other. It may happen as well but we cannot wait patiently for that to take place while receiving blow after blow to our body and suffering the consequent costs. Over the last seven decades we have seen that TSP has miraculously survived. The 3½ Friends still see a lot of utility in keeping this artificial construct alive and kicking. It is therefore our duty, and only our duty, to seek ways and means actively to destroy it. Many of India’s problems such as China or internal security, rough relations with some of our neighbours in the Indian Subcontinent will be resolved to a large extent when TSP is gone from the map.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Jan 2013 16:24

The soldier is saying "Call more (Pakis) - let us play cricket"

Thank you GoI. Thank you BCCI

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 10 Jan 2013 16:26

The wife of Lance Naik Hamraj, left, who was killed by Pakistani soldiers on the Line-of-Control in Jammu & Kashmir, mourns before his funeral in Mathura, Uttar Pradesh, on Wednesday. Photo: AP

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Jan 2013 16:35

India rejects TSP proposal for UN Probe

India on Thursday outright rejected Pakistan's proposal for UN investigation into Tuesday's incident on Line of Control (LoC) in which two Indian soldiers were killed with the body of one being badly mutilated.

The issue figured at a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) which was briefed by defence minister A K Antony on the incident in Jammu and Kashmir's Poonch sector on January eight and subsequent developments.

"We are certainly not going to agree to internationalise the issue or allow the United Nations to hold an inquiry. That demand is obviously rejected out of hand," finance minister P Chidambaram told a press conference after the meetings of the Union Cabinet and CCS here.

Pakistan had yesterday claimed that its troops were not involved in the attack carried out inside the Indian territory in Mendhar area of Jammu and Kashmir and said it was prepared to hold investigation through the UN Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP). UNMOGIP has presence on both sides of LoC.

"We take a serious view of what happened...Whatever has to be done will be done," Chidambaram said while describing the incident as brutal. {How many times before have we heard the exact same words ? One would like to ask what happened to all those ?}

He noted that Pakistan High Commissioner Salman Bashir had been summoned by the Ministry of External Affairs yesterday and a protest lodged. {and our job was done. We went back home to watch TV serial}

Chidambaram, who is a member of CCS presided by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, asserted that Indian troops had committed no violation of the ceasefire agreement as claimed in a media report.

He said the conduct of the Indian troops was within the guidelines that were agreed upon by the two countries.

Information and broadcasting minister Manish Tewari said the action of Pakistani troops was inhuman and the government had taken the matter seriously .

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Jan 2013 16:41

Yes they took it very seriously, they are fastracking the visa of all the paki players who have come to play the hockey india league

16:33 Visa applications of Pak players received today: The Indian High Commission in Islamabad today said that it had received the visa applications of the nine Pakistani players bound for the inaugural Hockey India League only today and will issue them visas "as quickly as possible".

A question mark cropped up over the participation of the Pakistan players in the league when none of the nine players contracted with four HIL franchisees arrived in the country till yesterday.

According to media reports, the visas of the players could have been put on hold because of the alleged killing of two Indian soldiers by the Pakistani armed forces at the LOC on Tuesday.