Bharat Rakshak

Roperia wrote:

“Whether it was a terrorist act or not will be determined only after proper investigations are carried out by Maharashtra ATS, city crime branch and central agencies,” Mr. Patil told reporters

Asked whether there could be a “saffron terror” angle to the incident, he said, “All angles are being probed and it will not be proper to comment at this stage.” (Who comes up with questions like this?)

Paid news media which is hired to deflect attention from real culprits. Money talks, and most have sold themselves to the highest bidder.

Police have also issued an advisory to IAC activists to wind up the dharna pandal for security reasons.

so the police is unable to provide security for a peaceful demonstration. so what are they being paid for?

ArmenT wrote: Perhaps they are calling it "low-intensity" because the material was a low explosive? Might explain the less # of casualties. FYI: low explosive is when the material burns with a speed less than speed of sound (e.g.) black powder, whereas high explosive is stuff like TNT, nitroglycerine, RDX etc., which burns faster than speed of sound.

Armen Saar, the initial assessment last night was that Ammonium Nitrate was the chemical used, which I believe is the standard explosive used by Jihadi scum and has a high detonation velocity.

Credibility or Trust has three components:Communication, Charcter and capability. A deficit in any of them leads to trust deficit or lack of credibility.
Repeatedly after every major or even minor bomb blast the police and the politicians make asinine statements and bury the investigation in useless details led astray by every little diversion. With hardly any progress the investigation reaches dead end. The press never follows up as htey are part of the establishment so there is no accountability.
One major gap is speaking in multiple voices from local, state and central officials. And feeding information to select reporters.

Its essentally a brown Raj. No accountability to anyone.

Earlier the Crown/Parliment would haul the Governor-General/Viceroy back.

It is the rule of the Indian East India company

Minor correction - Italian East Indian Company

Not really. The Italian is a figurehead/mukhota. The company is not accountable to anyone and hence the stasis.

ramana wrote:Not really. The Italian is a figurehead/mukhota. The company is not accountable to anyone and hence the stasis.

Figurehead? Hardly! She is Queen of the castle at the moment. All the minions are accountable to her.

Flaws averted major tragedy in Pune

I wouldn't call it design flaw for am sure it was tested soemwhere. It might be a failure to go-off which is good thing.

How many want to bet this too will go unsolved like the Varanasi blast and many others?

Considering that no one hosed down the streets with foam water after the blast (as in the case when Bibi Beloved met her 72), what explains not a single blast case being solved conclusively?
Is it due to technical reasons, or do they actually get solved but no further information is released in public domain for any number of reasons?

Prasant wrote:Considering that no one hosed down the streets with foam water after the blast (as in the case when Bibi Beloved met her 72), what explains not a single blast case being solved conclusively?
Is it due to technical reasons, or do they actually get solved but no further information is released in public domain for any number of reasons?

Walk around Javeri bazaar, dalaal street or any other crowded,conspicuous,previously targeted places in Mumbai, and you'll notice despite attack over attack there are hardly any cameras. And it is not just cameras in public areas, even shops don't bother installing cameras outside their businesses . As for why cases go nowhere ( or have seasonal flavors . Soon after 06 train bombing, the cops said it was SIMI, then a few months later it was LeT, then HUJI, then an year later it was IM ! ) , lack of intelligence, lack of evidence ( shouldnt a place like Varansi have cameras in every nook and corner ? ), clueless local cops and ancient forensics . At the end of the day, in a country like India life is cheap ,no one bothers be it cops,politicians nor general public. What can we say when there are 5 blasts and the police commissioner says "all is well" or the home minister who "cannot confirm" if it is a terrorist strike ?

Must have been from Fertilizer Corporation Of India.

Notice how none of the plants are operational after so much public money invested...

http://www.fertcorpindia.nic.in/index_english.html

Old ammonium nitrate may have reduced intensity

I am puzzled as to why they have to announce why it failed or why the intensity was low, what if next time they make sure they use new batch just to make sure there would be more fatalities? why give ideas and solve the puzzle for them?

probably for continuous quality improvement
and
also to sap the confidence of the bum builder,
who will have doubts about performance, aka
failure to launch...

Ambar wrote: Walk around Javeri bazaar, dalaal street or any other crowded,conspicuous,previously targeted places in Mumbai, and you'll notice despite attack over attack there are hardly any cameras. And it is not just cameras in public areas, even shops don't bother installing cameras outside their businesses .

Cameras?

Ambar ji, think about it. What if you were a sadhaaran cop who collects a handsome supplemental income by shaking down small business owners, motorists, and aam-janata for "hafta"?

Would you ever want a camera around anywhere, to (by chance) record you doing that?

And what about all the people who pay you hafta for being allowed to continue their various semi-legal and illegal transactions? How would it look, if cameras recorded them going about all those activities which you, as an officer of the law, are supposed to stop them from doing?

Going many steps up, what if you were a top cop, or an MLA or MP, whose entire career is financed by the handing-up of hafta from many levels of bribe-takers down below? What is your interest in changing the system? I mean, cameras may catch potential terrorists in time to stop them, but terrorist attacks take place maybe 1 day a year, in 1 city a year if that. What about the other 364 days, when thousands of things that should not be recorded on camera keep all this lucrative financial machinery contributing generously to your wealth and status?

Of course the rot goes all the way to the very top, to Sonia Maino, P. Chidambaram and all the others who clear 1.77 lakh crores per scam. Many Indians are painfully aware of this. But who recognizes the glaring fact that this vast black section of our economy has such a huge and direct impact on our internal security, on the lives and property of India's ordinary citizens? Even if they recognize it, do they care?

In another couple of weeks, BRF will see another "Happy Independence Day" thread. It will be bad form for me to ask the following question on that thread... so I will ask it now instead. What's "happy" about it? What's "independent" about us? We're still a colony. We are still ruled by mercantile classes, the very same classes who once sold us out to the Mughals and the British, and who don't give a rat's backside about their fellow citizens losing life and limb to terrorist attacks, industrial accidents, infrastructure-related disasters, train crashes, famines, shortages, floods, or anything else. We are expendable. The black economy, however, must be nurtured at all costs.

Only we on BRF come up will come up with suggestions like security cameras in public places. Only we on BRF, imagine (hilariously) that India might one day mount an Abbotabad-style raid to take out Dawood Ibrahim! We aren't nationalists, we aren't ahead of the curve, we are just unspeakably naive and (I fear) increasingly out of touch with reality.

^ Na Gurudev I think the problem is amongst n number of people only n' think on the above lines (where n' <n) however when it comes to acting on those lines on ground zero the number dwindles down to n" (where n" << n') we on BRF might come under the n' category but how many of us can make into the n" group ?

Did bombs fizzle out because of rainfall ? - Praveen Swami in The Hindu

Honestly I feel that Bharat Mata is indeed protected by a Divine Hand not the Congress hand, or Lotus (eaters) or anything by institutions.
It is just providential and I am believer

Some of the yogis living in the Himalayas are said to be channeling Divine Energy towards the country.

pentaiah wrote:Honestly I feel that Bharat Mata is indeed protected by a Divine Hand not the Congress hand, or Lotus (eaters) or anything by institutions.
It is just providential and I am believer

Umrao jaan that's a nice thought, but a depressing thought as well... because it reminds me of what some other Indians used to feel about Ghost Shirts. And of course we know what happened to their kind.

nakul wrote:Some of the yogis living in the Himalayas are said to be channeling Divine Energy towards the country.

Oh, that reminds me then of how Djinns held up nets over Pakistan and caught bombs dropped by the IAF in the 1965 war.

Prison murder could hold clues to Pune bombs - Praveen Swami in The Hindu

The prospect that the Indian Mujahideen may have carried out the Pune attacks has focussed attention on the elusiveness of the organisation’s core leadership even after a four-yearlong manhunt. According to Ajai Sahni, an expert on terrorist groups in South Asia, “Part of the reason for this is that the core leadership of the Indian Mujahideen is harboured in Pakistan, placing them out of reach."

Fugitive Indian Mujahideen commander Riyaz Ismail Shahbandri, also known as Riyaz Bhatkal, his brother Iqbal Shahbandri, and the bomb-maker Abdul Subhan Quereshi alias Tauqeer who together run ‘Project Karachi’ for the ISI and the LeT, also took refuge in Karachi in c. 2008. Similarly, another Indian Mujahideen commander Muhammad Zarar Siddibapa — a Karnataka resident also known by the alias Yasin Bhatkal, also took refuge in Karachi in c. 2008. The entity ‘Indian Mujahideen’ is actually the LeT unit of India. It extensively recruits jihadists from Hyderabad, Azamgarh (UP), Ahmedabad, Malappuram (Kerala) and Bhatkal (Karnataka) and sends them for training to Pakistan. There is a second ‘Karachi Project’ which is being independently run by an ex- Pakistani military officer Major Rehman Hashim, also known as Pasha.

^^ What is the IM's conduit for sending back trained operatives from Pakistan? Nepal?

Also, why are the IM bomb-makers using relatively unsophisticated devices made from NH4NO3, rather than the RDX that Tiger Memon et al obtained? Is it lack of resources, ISI's desire to maintain deniability, or have our security forces actually become much better at intercepting RDX-type materiel?

pentaiah wrote:Honestly I feel that Bharat Mata is indeed protected by a Divine Hand not the Congress hand, or Lotus (eaters) or anything by institutions.
It is just providential and I am believer

If the 'Divine Hand' is responsible for the state of affairs in the country, must say it's done a pretty poor job till now. Lets not bring in a 'Divine Hand' when earthly ones responsible for the mess are clearly identifiable.

1a) Item 1 is dual use technology hence less risky
1b) easy to obtain locally hence
1c) no need to transport across borders

2a) pilot / recon run too much resource if RDX
2b) RDX can be traced to manufacturer
2c) expensive for dry run

2d) May be Pakis techies are busy in Syria with those skills.

3) The divine hand rained on RDX supply point

And I thought Bharat Mata is protected by Sonia Mata. How wrong I could be?

Rudradev wrote:^^ What is the IM's conduit for sending back trained operatives from Pakistan? Nepal?

Also, why are the IM bomb-makers using relatively unsophisticated devices made from NH4NO3, rather than the RDX that Tiger Memon et al obtained? Is it lack of resources, ISI's desire to maintain deniability, or have our security forces actually become much better at intercepting RDX-type materiel?

Rudradev, I can only partially answer your first question. The exit route used to reach Karachi is invariably Bangladesh where there is a strong ISI & LeT presence (in spite of action by incumbent PM). They have also used the LoC (remember the case of the 4 Malayalees who were shot dead at the border in c. 2008 ?) The ingress (back into India) is through multiple routes, I guess, including Nepal, Gulf or even some ASEAN countries.

Ammonium Nitrate is easily available within the country and can be equally lethal as all recent bombings in India have shown. The ISI's project is to turn India into a terror-torn country similar to Pakistan using indigenous resources.

I am still pondering as to how to explain the inexplicable phenomena of the absence of large scale casualties in Indian cities after each bombing by TSP terrorists ( and in spite of so many attempts by TSP terrorists.) It is even more surprising that no VIP is ever targeted (not that I wish by any chance) do they get prior notice not to be in the vicinity by divinity? (recall the attack on Israeli staff even that failed providentially. The 9-11 took at toll of something like near 2000 people in one fell. But the largest single terror attack of 26/11 in India the toll was about 200 dead (including 28 foreign nationals). Is that not providential? (some one correct me if the largest single terror Casualties exceeded 200)

The only nearest explanation I can think is road runner cartoon, where the roadrunner always escapes the event by whiskers breadth inspite of the cunningness of the Coyote

Please remember what is written below:

pentaiah wrote:If you post garbage the forum credibility takes hit.
Stick to news and keep us informed. Analysis can wait, gather facts please

AS>
I thought of that and I used to be angry after every attack, and seethe in anger, but now I see life in a different perspective.
Now that we have passed the event of muffled explosions and are getting into explanations like rain messed up the explosives, the explosions were mild, some one died in prison, Karachi project etc etc all these are very mundane news items which have been posted. Even if note worthy they are post facto that can only be explained by...??

And I don't feel my explanation is garbage as yet. But is there anyway to explain how narrowly we escaped disaster, save for Luck or some unseen force that's protecting the people of India.
Anyways I have become fatalistic and will not post anything about explosions in India, because I am a believer that the good people are under some righteous force that protects them at all times.
PS: Would you be able to explain in any better way the sequence of events (failure of devastating events) since I failed to do so and fell into my own high standards

What failure of devastating events? Surely more than 200 people died in 1993 Bombay bombings? And deaths of thousands of people in J&K and Punjab is definitely not less tragic than one huge 9/11? Why are you fixated on one event? What about assassinations of 2 PMs? Is that providential too?

Rudradev wrote: Is it lack of resources, ISI's desire to maintain deniability, or have our security forces actually become much better at intercepting RDX-type materiel?

My guess is both. I am also wondering if there have been any international accords unknown to me by way of which RDX is chemically marked to reveal its source. All smuggled RDX from those sources could be traced and any that does not have tracer could be from suspect nations. Still, I am sure the CIA or ISI could get unmarked RDX for special use where the USA or Pakistan would not be blamed.

I general, terror, like Pakistan, will continue forever. And our relationship with terror, like our relations with Pakistan will be eternal and unstoppable.

The happy thing about this latest attack is that no one died

The saddest thing is that the Pakistan hand has not yet emerged.

With every terror attack a visceral hatred of Pakistan should be increased and fertilized so every Indian knows and understands what Pakistan means.

My dear a good reader like you should not twist my words

1) What failure of devastating events?
The bombs that failed in the Pune recently was refereed events ( was lucky to have failed for us Indians - no?)

2) I checked wiki and said I stand corrected if more than 200 people died in 26/11 in single event (you are going cumulative which I never implied).

3) My reference to 9/11 was that a nation that prides in preventive action failed to protect its citizens
where as ( relative lax security and lot more freedom and lot more dense population) India has been protected.

4) About the Two leaders assassination I guess you are talking about IG and RG about who I will refrain and not talk about.
Any way thanks and no more discussion on this.

Thanks for ending this discussion. To put it mildly, I am unable to understand your "theory".

Apparently the bombs were very well made and shaped to disperse a large amount of ball bearings to cause maximum casualties. They had 3 detonators for redundancy.

Recent rains in pune caused anfo to fizzle. Probably the abduls who transported them were not careful. This is not amateur stuff folks. A major attack had been averted by rains.

Will probably go unnoticed/forgotten like the bums that were handled by the disposal teams in Mumbai rail stations a few years ago.

A ridiculous position to be in.

Will probably go unnoticed/forgotten like the bums that were handled by the disposal teams in Mumbai rail stations a few years ago.

A ridiculous position to be in.

Indeed. Unfortunately our H'ble PM's head is firmly stuck there.

Anujan wrote:Apparently the bombs were very well made and shaped to disperse a large amount of ball bearings to cause maximum casualties. They had 3 detonators for redundancy.

Recent rains in pune caused anfo to fizzle. Probably the abduls who transported them were not careful. This is not amateur stuff folks. A major attack had been averted by rains.

Wonder if the Indian fertilizer factories started adding Ammonium Sulfate which is hygroscopic either by design or as a contaminant?

I also postulate the car bum that Afzal guru facilitated also suffered from moisture pickup from the usual dense Delhi fog and didn't go off.

Again saved by Varuna deva.