Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Mar 2014 00:49

By the way the Italian passport man was shown on TV. Somebody with Imran Khan like features can pass off as him. They would have to change the photo in any case. The name could be nothing specific as far as race goes. There are lots of muslims in all the countnries involved. As Jhujar said, if we are patient for a while the old snake will come out of the discarded snake skin ("manam oginta sEpu saisutE pAmu kubusam lOnchi Avaliki vastadi").

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Mar 2014 00:54

They were probably over water. A lot of things float - all the seat cushions, flame retardant interior plastics, the works. Debris will be scattered over a very large area. The first part of AF447 that was found was the tail, which is composite and floats. Of course, if the plane crashed on land, all those ships are clearly nowhere nearby.

Even in case of AF447, they found the tail in less than 2 days in the middle of the Atlantic. It just took longer to get to it by ship because it was in the middle of the ocean. Here, there's no clue what happened even after 3 full days days.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 00:57

UB, Independent says usually 4 out of 10 passengers are checked on Interpol database.

LINK

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Mar 2014 01:00

is it possible that it was hijacked (to explain the radar and radio silence) and then fell into forest and we are just looking in wrong area.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 01:06

They say a plane can glide 3 miles for every 1000 feet of altitude. So if it was unpowered decent they need to expand the search area to a radius of 3*30 i.e. 90 miles radius.
Seeing that they had confined the search area to 50 nautical miles radius mens they have some other info. More like area over which an in-flight break up could scatter. Could be magaged expectations till real clues are found.

One of above links says US sat data did not detect any explosions. Doesn't mean it did not happen.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 01:10

matrimc wrote:By the way the Italian passport man was shown on TV. Somebody with Imran Khan like features can pass off as him. They would have to change the photo in any case. The name could be nothing specific as far as race goes. There are lots of muslims in all the countnries involved. As Jhujar said, if we are patient for a while the old snake will come out of the discarded snake skin ("manam oginta sEpu saisutE pAmu kubusam lOnchi Avaliki vastadi").

The Malayasian minister claimed African. Did they realase footage to seek worldwide help or still groping in the dark?

On Sunday, Malaysia’s Home Minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi said the two men who used the sham passports were of Asian origin, according to Malaysian state news agency Bernama. But on Monday evening, Malaysia’s top civil aviation official, Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, described the pair, who boarded MH370 with stolen Austrian and Italian passports, using a surprising reference. They resembled, he said, Mario Balotelli, the Italian footballer whose birth parents emigrated from Ghana.

The Independent and Interpol suggest MAS was lax in their protocols. Same time the Minister claims all processes were followed.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Mar 2014 01:12

To glide furthest, they need to configure the flaps etc optimally. This in turn presumes electrical power since it is fly by wire. Strange that if electrical power is available, they could not transmit a mayday message .

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2014 01:19

What should be checked is the number of no-shows on flights in that region SINCE the news came that there were two false passports. My theory is that lots of PRC travelers travel on false passports, it just so happened that there were two or four, or more on this flight. If there is a black market in stolen passports from Thailand (probably red-light districts), well, that's because there are plenty of customers.

Note that TWO pilots reported "mumbled contact" and "lot of noise in the communication" about the time the disappearance occurred. Apparently ATC asked one of them to contact the Malaysian flight, not clear if that was before or after he had contact.

Wonder what checks they actually do at Kuala Lumpur. I can't believe that they just glance at a passport and say, "Yup, fine, thanks". Maybe they are very lax on gora (tourist/CIA) passports. Whatever, someone has figured out how to do this, it's back to Day of The Jackal era, after all the TSA and No Fly List mania.

Wherever the plane went, it reached within 7 hours, because that's all the fuel they had left. Of course that is a very wide area, but they had to travel at low altitude to stay under radar, which means low speed. So that's about 2800km radius, which could be anywhere.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 01:26

Some progress

LINK

The FBI are now involved after a Thai travel agent admitted she had arranged the travel for the two suspects via an Iranian customer she only knew as “Mr Ali.”

Grand Horizon travel agency owner Benjaporn Krutnait said she had been asked to book inexpensive flights for Europe on March 1st.

Eventually she purchased the two tickets for the doomed flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing and on to Amsterdam.

Basically a Thai travel agent booked two tickets for those stolen passport holders on instructions from an Iranian Mr Ali who paid with cash and wanted cheap tickets.

His name and country of origin could be cover for our friendly neighbor.

partha · Post by **partha** » 11 Mar 2014 01:28

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... d-22850257

Malaysian civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, whose agency is leading a multinational effort to find the Boeing 777, said more than 1,000 people and at least 34 planes and 40 ships were searching a radius of 100 nautical miles (115 miles; 185 kilometers) around the last known location of Flight MH370. No signal has been detected since early Saturday morning, when the plane was at its cruising altitude and showed no sign of trouble.

Azharuddin said the search includes northern parts of the Malacca Strait, on the opposite side of the Malay Peninsula and far west of the plane's last known location. Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."

Some aviation experts are already calling for airlines to update their cockpit technology to provide a constant stream of data — via satellites — back to the ground. Information about key system operations is already recorded on the flight data and voice recorders — the so-called black boxes — but as this crash shows is not immediately available. Such satellite uplinks would be costly and the benefit is debated.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 11 Mar 2014 02:01

ramana wrote:

The FBI are now involved after a Thai travel agent admitted she had arranged the travel for the two suspects via an Iranian customer she only knew as “Mr Ali.”

Grand Horizon travel agency owner Benjaporn Krutnait said she had been asked to book inexpensive flights for Europe on March 1st.

Eventually she purchased the two tickets for the doomed flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing and on to Amsterdam.

Basically a Thai travel agent booked two tickets for those stolen passport holders on instructions from an Iranian Mr Ali who paid with cash and wanted cheap tickets.

His name and country of origin could be cover for our friendly neighbor.

But if they were planning on blowing up the flight to Beijing, why buy tickets all the way to Europe? This is more likely a case of people being smuggled into europe using stolen passports and may have nothing to do with the crash.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 02:06

Due to forum update my other psot got swallowed.

Bascially the Thai travel agent said that it was she who picked that flight and not Mr Ali or the two passengers.

Looks like those two were illegal migrants to EU from Kaula Lumpur via Beijing. So chasing the duo wont lead to any solution for the mystery.

To me there are three scenarios:

- It suffered sudden catastrophic structural failure while in flight
- It was brought down by others
- Terrorists
- Shot down

No matter Thailand is the hub of illegal passports and needs to shape up.

Malayasia needs to implement better security checks or face being de-recognized.

Will wait for better data before voicing another thought.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Mar 2014 02:14

European passport holders need a visa to enter China unless they are transiting. To get a visa they'll have to surrender the passport, which may be authenticated and flagged.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 02:21

What does the above mean? Please be a little bit more elaborate as there is no space constraint.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 02:27

Picture of travel agency that sold the tickets

LINK

Looks like a shack.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Mar 2014 02:30

It's a response to the question of why they booked an onward ticket to Europe from Beijing. Malaysian passports need a visa to enter or transit China, but European passports don't need one for transit. If their plan was to go to Europe, even a Malaysian passport would have sufficed, since they have visa-free entry to Europe.

If these two fake holders were somehow responsible, the prevailing rules suggest they wanted to be on a flight to China without prior Chinese authorization.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 02:36

Thanks for clarifying the post...

However the Thai travel agent stated it was she who picked the flight and not the two passport holders nor "Mr Ali".

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Mar 2014 03:27

They should concentrate the search on land too.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-26510746

India offers help to trace missing Malaysia plane

India has offered help to the Malaysian government to search for the missing Malaysia Airlines jet which vanished two days ago with 239 people on board.There are five Indian passengers on the flight, the airline says.The Boeing 777-200ER that mysteriously vanished south of Vietnam without sending a distress call was carrying passengers of 14 nationalities."I have sent my condolences [to the families of the passengers] and our ambassador [in Beijing] is in touch with them. We are ready to give any help, if required, or share information if we get any," Indian Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid said on Sunday.Family members of the five Indian passengers say they are waiting for any information about the plane.A relative of Kranti Shirsath, one of the passengers on the flight, said she was on her way to China to meet her husband."She was going there on the (International) Women's Day for two months to spend the summer vacations with him. His contract... [with the company where he works] is about to expire. They wanted to settle here in India," KV Shirsath told Reuters news agency.Kranti Shirsath's son told The Indian Express newspaper that the family was hoping that the plane was recovered."We hope the plane has been hijacked, then there is [a] chance that mom will come back," Rahul Shirsath, 16, said.Samved Kolekar, whose father, mother and brother were travelling by the flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, said he was waiting with his wife in Beijing for news about the flight. "They were coming to visit me here," Mr Kolekar told the Press Trust of India news agency. .Chandrika Sharma, who works for the Chennai-based International Collective in Support of Fish Workers, was also travelling on the flight to attend a conference in Ulan Batore Mongolia, reports said"I still believe my daughter will come back," her mother Shakuntala Sharma told a news channel.An investigation into the cause of its disappearance is focusing on two passengers who boarded the flight using stolen passports.

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 11 Mar 2014 03:27

Hay Chinese lurks why don't you ask your gov. to arm twist your taller and deeper friend, they may give you some info.

On other note can this be dry run of some advanced kind of devise AQ (Pakis) have developed which can avoid detection at air port and can be easily taken on board? the it will be serious. There are so many 72ers Pakis are ready.

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Mar 2014 03:50

ramana wrote:Due to forum update my other psot got swallowed.

Bascially the Thai travel agent said that it was she who picked that flight and not Mr Ali or the two passengers.

Looks like those two were illegal migrants to EU from Kaula Lumpur via Beijing. So chasing the duo wont lead to any solution for the mystery.

To me there are three scenarios:

- It suffered sudden catastrophic structural failure while in flight
- It was brought down by others
- Terrorists
- Shot down

No matter Thailand is the hub of illegal passports and needs to shape up.

Malayasia needs to implement better security checks or face being de-recognized.

Will wait for better data before voicing another thought.

True she picked the flight. But in this day and age of the internet it is easy to find the cheapest flight. Why they needed the travel agency? They needed to pay cash. So even without picking the specific flight they would know they would have gotten the same flight because that was the cheapest flight on that day (around $600). One of them could have easily gotten a direct flight to Frankfurt for about $50 more but chose to go this way.

About visa, China I think gives a 72 hour visa on arrival at Shanghai and Beijing.

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Mar 2014 04:03

I just heard over CNN. Originally these two were booked on DIFFERENT flights and somehow their 'booking expired'. Then they were booked on this flight. So may be they are OK, just connected to an Iranian who paid for their tickets in cash.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 04:10

saip,
Look for the report in Haaretz quoting Financial Times. It gives better details. Forum update swalloed the link.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 04:15

With five passengers from India, GOI should join the search mission. And not offer platitiudes from Khurshi*.

Use those P-3 Orions purchased with so much fanfare from US. Get them some practice.

Just because elections are annonuced doesn't mean give up governance.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 04:37

CNN

MAS flight MH-37:Knowns and Unknowns

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 04:43

One thing I am not clear is if Interpol "lost passport" database is accessible for airlines or only police forces? If the later then the Interpol chief is talking through his hat and scoring cheap points at this time.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Mar 2014 05:12

ramana wrote:The Malayasian minister claimed African. Did they realase footage to seek worldwide help or still groping in the dark?

The news clip that showed a man whose Italian passport was stolen a year back was yesterday or day before. The clip was shot in Thailand where he is shown entering a police station. His name came up as a traveler in the missing plane. Looks like he reported to the police station to shout out to his near and dear that he is alive and well. This person looked like a Moroccan. Since there are three more traveling with stolen passports, there may be others who are from a different region. If it is indeed a terrorist attack/hijack attempt, then the network is quite widespread indeed.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Mar 2014 05:16

Suraj wrote:To glide furthest, they need to configure the flaps etc optimally. This in turn presumes electrical power since it is fly by wire. Strange that if electrical power is available, they could not transmit a mayday message .

May be the pilots were under duress - threatened by knife, IED, or even a gun. If they are killed by making a wrong move, the plane would go down and hence avoided an SOS. But then things might have gone wrong anyways.

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 11 Mar 2014 05:23

May be the pilots were under duress - threatened by knife, IED, or even a gun. If they are killed by making a wrong move, the plane would go down and hence avoided an SOS. But then things might have gone wrong anyways.

Or may be pilot or co pilot (both were muslims) suffering from Pakibanish Jehaditis.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Mar 2014 05:24

nachiket wrote:But if they were planning on blowing up the flight to Beijing, why buy tickets all the way to Europe? This is more likely a case of people being smuggled into europe using stolen passports and may have nothing to do with the crash.

Two things - these networks are rolling in black money (the tickets were paid in cash) and Euros going to Europe does not attract attention. Otherwise they have to show hotel bookings and contacts in Beijing. What are visa requirements for Italians and Austrians to go to China? There may be that too.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Mar 2014 05:27

ramana wrote:However the Thai travel agent stated it was she who picked the flight and not the two passport holders nor "Mr Ali".

Not eliminating the possibility of illegal emigration but want to just say that there is another possibility. May be these guys did not care which flight they blew up.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2014 06:22

Pooch for the experts: If they had 7 hours' fuel left when they disappeared, would they have run out of fuel in the Andaman Sea? I assume they would have flown at around 1000 feet to avoid radar, and slowed down accordingly.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 06:38

Why would they want to fly to Andaman Sea which is 180 degrees from their flight path? Crash into Chennai?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_A ... Flight_370

Ok wiki says its a 6 hour flight from KLL to Beijing. The plane was two hours towards Gulf of Thailand when radar contact was lost. So to double back to Malaysia would take another two hours So 6-2-2 = 2 more hours of fuel left.Probably less due to low altitude.

It would just make the Hanuman Sea

..The Royal Thai Navy shifted its focus in the search away from the Gulf of Thailand and the South China Sea due to the request of its Malaysian counterpart, which is investigating the possibility the aircraft turned around and could have gone down in the Andaman Sea, near Thailand's border.[38] The chief of the Royal Malaysian Air Force, Rodzali Daud, claimed that military recordings of radar signals did not exclude the possibility of the aircraft turning back on its flight path.[39][40] The search area has been widened to the Straits of Malacca along the west coast of the Malay Peninsula; so that both waters to the east of Malaysia in the South China Sea, and in the Straits of Malacca along Malaysia's west coast, are being searched.[41] The Indonesian Navy also focused the search on the Straits of Malacca after a request by the Malaysian Armed Forces.[42]

UB are you thinking its Hanuman who saved us from 9/11 redux.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Mar 2014 06:44

ramana wrote:Why would they want to fly to Andaman Sea which is 180 degrees from their flight path? Crash into Chennai?

Trying to go to their latest love Rangoon to do Telephoon to their Priya Poaq Pushtuns in Peshawar?.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2014 06:49

Not 180 degrees: 90 degrees. Hijacking. Remember: "mumbling" heard by other pilots. Maybe the original pilots were dead- shot dead or poisoned, incapacitated too fast to hit the hijack code on the transponder, and not at the controls, hijackers were in the pilot's seats.

May have been heading for Maldives? May have done a water landing?

What is Mr. Azharuddin not allowed to reveal I wonder (about why they are searching the Andaman Sea). Military radar traces? Doesn't the PRC have a military radar station at the south end of the Myanmar peninsula? Wouldn't they catch large things flying fairly low? Turbofan engine noise?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 06:56

Not to spook Indian elections?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2014 07:03

Don't know. Could equally well have been Colombo: pls check a map. 90 degree turn from the disappearance point puts it on a direct course for Colombo. That's the Malaysia connection maybe? All speculation. I hope they find that the crew and passengers are alive. If it didn't crash right away, I don't see why it should have crashed at all. Bad landing, maybe. In eastern SL jungle? Maybe getting ready for takeoff again for the final flight segment.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 11 Mar 2014 07:03

only lard vishnu know where the plane iz, but the speed at which CTs have quickly surfaced make me scratch my head...
- fake pazzport, chinese uighurs, eerani abduls etc etc(someone making sure that no tragedy wasted)

daal mein kuch kala hein ya duniya ko chutiya bana rahe hein?

member_28502 · Post by **member_28502** » 11 Mar 2014 07:14

remember when on Andaman sea you have to do dog leg maneuver
so initially 180 degrees then 90 and travel against the rotational forces of mother earth

besides if it was indeed only 90 degrees it would be crossing right across the Thai and Combodia ( air space )

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Mar 2014 07:26

I am sure India knows a little more than what it is willing to reveal as well.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 11 Mar 2014 07:38

This U turn we dont know if its wide enough that the banking angle is imperceptible to people inside the cockpit and cabin at night compared to the ones seen in a plane in a holding pattern before landing, in the first case it could be the pilots trying to fly back, hijackers can tell the current position with a handheld GPS though