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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 17 Sep 2009 00:55
by milindc
Hari Seldon wrote:Am r2i of recent vintage. Back in bhagyanagaram, found a decent job back on desi shores. Won't say re-adjustment isn't dicey. city i grew up in is so different now, can hardly recognise but bits and pieces of it here and there as voices calling from far away.
.........
Looking for a sufficient (1500 sqft odd) 3BR flat from a reputed developer a little outside the happening itvity sector even.
Time for a Biryani and Haleem (since it is Ramzan season) meet in honor of our resident Economy expert's return to Hyd.
The Mantri on Wipro Circle is the best buy according to moi for any potential buyers / investors in Hyd.
Pros: Location, Location, and Location
The all inclusive rate (car park, electric and water connection, infra dev fee, etc, etc and registration) comes to 3600 psft
Cons: You will end up paying about 95% of amount when they put the concrete structure. So builder has just 5% incentive to complete it on time. The builder claims that it will be completed by March 2011. I would easily say it will be Dec 2012
Just 67% is carpet area compared to other builders where it is about 70%
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 17 Sep 2009 07:04
by Hari Seldon
Did lookup Mantri. Not far from where am currently perched, mussay.
BTW, soooo like the idea of a beer-biryani meet. Was there for the last hyd meet last yr sometime. Was hoping to send out feelers for another hyd meet later this yr (after mid-nov, when I will have some breathing space from work). But should you call for a meet sooner, pls lemme know, will show up pakka-ich.

Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 18 Sep 2009 09:42
by suryag
Guys have a query. I am planning to buy a plot in hyd, through my father. As I am in massa and wont be physically present in hyd to execute the sale, is there any GPA route that i can use so that my father can sign on my behalf and seal the deal ?
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 18 Sep 2009 10:50
by Singha
I have seen people go the GPA route with registering/buying of flats. not sure about plots. your father should be able to consult a learned attorney or family circle and find out. since it a plot you might anyway want to consult a good lawyer and have him go through all the papers for verification. a decent one will charge around 4k imo. he might ask the seller to provide some addl docs - let the seller bear the task of obtaining such docs.
always find your own lawyer, do not go to a lawyer reco'ed by the seller or accept
legal opinion brought by the seller at face value...there is a conflict of interest.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 18 Sep 2009 22:29
by milindc
Hari Seldon wrote:Did lookup Mantri. Not far from where am currently perched, mussay.
BTW, soooo like the idea of a beer-biryani meet. Was there for the last hyd meet last yr sometime. Was hoping to send out feelers for another hyd meet later this yr (after mid-nov, when I will have some breathing space from work). But should you call for a meet sooner, pls lemme know, will show up pakka-ich.

We will do it in Nov ko-ich..
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 21 Sep 2009 23:16
by SwamyG
to whomsoever-interested, I am going with a flat in Ramky Towers. I was thinking of a plot with Obili Group; but after YSR's death I decided to play it a little safe.
surya: The GPA route is available.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 22 Sep 2009 01:29
by RamaY
John Snow wrote:Any NRI holding land in India will come to know that he is holding "Former Land'
Swamy G garu there is road from Medchal Highway connecting Military prision in tirmalgherry road. On this way you will find Military Dairy Farm opposite to that we had Godrej Co perative housing society Land of 11.5 acres illegally occupied by Cong I goondas, we went upto SC we won but we cant physically go there...
I spent Rs 85,000 of my provident fund for about 600 sq yds in 1984. Now I am NRI owning Former Land.
...
But on the brighter side I have a paper registered to me , which I offer to anybody for 85000

JS Garu!
One sincere advise is to offer that price (Rs 85K) to that Cong I goonda and he will be happy to pay you off, as it will set the wheel in motion.
Forget about goondas and mafia, my friend bought few plots from Jana Chaitanya group near Samshabad Airport and they are making counter offers to him instead of registering the land.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 22 Sep 2009 01:38
by RamaY
SwamyG wrote:to whomsoever-interested, I am going with a flat in Ramky Towers. I was thinking of a plot with Obili Group; but after YSR's death I decided to play it a little safe.
surya: The GPA route is available.
SwamyG garu,
Congratulations! Could you pls give some insight into the price?
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 22 Sep 2009 02:04
by SwamyG
Mail me .... xxxxxxxxxxxxxx {i will edit this email after you acknowledge}
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 22 Sep 2009 03:15
by RamaY
SwamyG garu, check your mail
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 22 Sep 2009 12:14
by KarthikSan
Super-luxury is back in the realty lexicon
Raghavendra Kamath & B Krishna Mohan / Mumbai/hyderabad September 22, 2009, 0:11 IST
The sales brochure offers you the opportunity to own Mumbai’s first managed private residences with a “lifestyle elevated up to the sky”. At Rs 28,000 per square foot plus other charges, Indiabulls Sky is also promising a 65-storey “marvel with opulent apartments, timeless luxury and impeccable butler service”. Indiabulls Real Estate, which has sold one-third of the apartments since the Lower Parel project was launched in the last one month, now says it will be selective in selling the remaining apartments to create a “classy neighbourhood”.
Apartments boasting the tags luxury and super-luxury — the two words forgotten in the real estate world in the last two years — are back with a bang over the last three months. What has brought back buyers this time is the fact that prices are much more reasonable than in 2006-07, when the same kind of apartment would have had an asking price at least 30 per cent higher.
Orbit Terraces, a luxury housing project by realty developer Orbit Corporation, also in Lower Parel, saw around 300 buyers making enquiries for 75 to 80 apartments when it was launched last week. The apartments in the project, which include duplexes with attached terraces, cost Rs 3.3 crore to Rs 6.6 crore for apartments ranging from 1,500 sq ft to 3,000 sq ft.
A host of other developers are also cashing in on what they call the new-found confidence among buyers. Take Mumbai-based Lodha Developers. The company, which used to sell two or three luxury apartments a month in south Mumbai till December last year, now sells 15 to 20 units a month, a top company official says. It has several projects such as Lodha Bellisimo, Lodha Primero, Chateau Paradise, among others, in South Mumbai.
And despite raising prices at the Lodha Primero project in Mumbai’s Mahalaxmi area 30 per cent, the developer has been able to sell 90 per cent of the apartments in the last one month.
"The luxury market was hit hard during the downturn. But sales have definitely picked up since March as the economy is on an upswing,'' says R Karthik, senior vice-president of marketing at Lodha Developers.
The rush for super-luxury isn’t restricted to the country’s commercial capital. In Hyderabad, for example, at least eight builders are developing multiple projects, under which each villa or a bungalow is priced around Rs 4 crore.
Sunish Tom, head of Dun and Bradstreet (D&B) Information Services India events and promotions, says there is a huge demand for exclusive, custom-built luxury houses.
D&B recently conducted Millionaire Homes 2009 in Hyderabad, a platform to introduce prospective buyers to property developers. At least 2,000 people have expressed an interest in evaluating luxury properties. Similar events have already been held at Chennai and Bangalore.
Ravi Sharma, deputy general manager (sales) of Lodha Group, which sold its luxury properties by invitation, says the company has identified 5,000 high net worth individuals in Hyderabad. “We do customer profiling before extending an invitation,'' he said.
The group sold 108 units of the 120 built in Phase I, due delivery in July 2011. Each unit was priced between Rs 2.5 crore and Rs 3 crore. The group plans to begin its second phase in four months. “There is demand for luxury homes. Most buyers want to stay in them and not see them as mere investment channels,'' Sharma said.
What defines luxury is changing rapidly. “Golf is the USP for us. There is a huge appetite for this kind of project,”' said Masood, managing director, Dax Properties, a subsidiary of Country Side.
Dax is coming up with a golf-centric villa project at Shadnagar (on the Bangalore highway), about 50 km from Hyderabad, covering 300 acres. It will have villas and villa plots ranging from 5,000 sq ft to 15,000 sq ft. In all, it plans to construct 1,000 villas in three phases including 250 villas in the first phase.
“The project is approved and the construction will start shortly,'' says Masood, adding that the project cost will be around Rs 500 crore.
Vipul Bansal, joint managing director of Indiabulls Real Estate, says the luxury segment was largely insulated from the economic slowdown. “The main reason for buyers staying away was that there was hardly any stock of high-end products in places such as south Mumbai,'' he says.
But analysts say the segment is seeing traction once again only because of aggressive pricing by developers. "Basically, it’s a question of keeping something on the table for buyers who need the comfort that they are buying a property that has scope for a 30 to 40 per cent increase after two or three years,'' says Raminder Grover, chief executive of Homebay Residential, a unit of Jones Lang LaSalle Meghraj, an international property consultant.
Some developers agree. "Though sentiment and pricing have improved, if you increase prices by 10 to 15 per cent, products cannot be sold as easily as you sell them today,'' says Ramashraya Yadav, head of finance at Orbit Corp.
According to Aditi Vijayakar, director of residential services at Cushman & Wakefield, a real estate consultancy firm, self employed people and businessman form the major chunk of new home buyers. That may not be surprising, since increments for salaried people are still subdued in Indian companies.
Buoyed by the new-found demand, many developers are planning new luxury launches. Orbit is planning one in Lower Parel during Diwali and another one in Andheri after Diwali, while Lodha is planning two more luxury projects in Mumbai shortly.
And you guys are talking about a real estate collapse and slow down! All maya onlee

Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 22 Sep 2009 19:40
by Bade
Swamyg, why all this secrecy in quoting the per sq ft rate in Hydbad. Interested people would like to know about the real estate mafia there. Is it 50% in white and rest in black.
Was in Navi Mumbai for less than 12 hours visiting friends, and found that flats are upward of 1 crore onlee there. Every road view or sea-view (actually stinking creek view) apartment balconies had chicken coop like meshed and ugly grill-work. What an eye-sore. I do not know why builders even bother with elevation view design, when people are going to modify it as they please. Not to mention the hanging undergarments from every balcony. Why not provide a central drying place for clothes on the roof-tops or even huge dryers for common use using solar heating.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 22 Sep 2009 20:19
by SwamyG
bade mian: As they would say in Hyderabad "antha scene laedhu"

The price per sq ft is around Rs2900. And all white onlee.
While scouting one of the developer representative did ask me that question "how much in black and how much in white?". She asked me as if she was asking me "do you want hot or cool drinks?". In Hyderabad one can get a decent 3-bed room flat for 60-70L (or even less).
As constructions have slowed and there is a general expectancy that things will stabilize soon (or even improve), aam admi + developer thinks the prices will start going up. As we all know one can never predict market let alone the bottom. So one makes decisions and live with them.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 22 Sep 2009 22:34
by SwamyG
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 23 Sep 2009 02:48
by KrishnaMu
The amount of urban development around Hyderabad and Chennai is unsustainable. Given the depleted under ground resources and no enough water catchment/sinking areas urban areas with half decade I dont know how the people going to survive.

Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 23 Sep 2009 08:16
by Singha
buy water in ULWC ships from Canada. water is the new uranium and there will be treaties regulating its international sale.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 25 Sep 2009 02:44
by shyamd
They are already buying bore water from farms outside delhi, to be sold to apartments complexes etc in Delhi. Saw it on the news once. They will probably do the same in Chennai, Hyderabad etc.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 25 Sep 2009 07:13
by Singha
probably do the same
its already being done in all major cities incl blr! some of it is due to municipality
pipes not reaching new layouts and local borewells drying up.
showers (esp by women who spend an hr in there) waste lot of water compared to
the old metal balti system.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 30 Sep 2009 06:33
by SwamyG
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 07 Oct 2009 18:37
by kayzee
SwamiG- Did you buy at ramky recently? I was thinking of buying one. Who were you dealing with? The guy has been quoting 3300, but I feel that apts are being sold sub at 3000 rates. I would apprecaite if you could let me know.
Thanks,
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 07 Oct 2009 18:46
by SwamyG
Yes, I have a booking now. I am in the process of getting the loan. I did get sub-3000 rate. If you add the amenities and 2-car parking, the final rate works around 3300 per sqft. But that was for a smaller flat. There were just two remaining, and I picked on of them. They quote 3300 for larger flats - 2365sq ft {flats that are at the corners/edges of the tower}
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 09 Oct 2009 10:05
by kayzee
Swami G- Ya he has been quoting 3300 all inclusive. Im looking at a corner apt in D block. There are plenty available for 2365 sft. How much did you pay for the booking amount and what did he say about payment terms ? Also, from when did they agree for a penalty clause? I am pressing from Aug but not sure if he is going to agree to that.
Did he mention completion by aug with a 3 month grace period?
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 19 Oct 2009 22:46
by Bade
Bengluru real estate biggies are not putting out their per Sqft rate anymore in open source. What does that mean ? Are prices still falling or is on the uptake, so they are thinking of milking out the new cautious entrants on the horizon.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 20 Oct 2009 16:42
by shyamd
Supposedly from 2011, loads of big bankers in yindoostan predict that real estate is going to be huge. So lots of big players are positioning themselves at the moment, buying up loads of land etc in cities also areas outside the cities.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 29 Oct 2009 03:35
by Rishirishi
My parents are thinking to rent out a flat in Noida, 3/4 bedroom, 5th floor with double lift, pool and 24 hour electricity water backup "best" society in sector 50 . They asked me to place an ad in the internet

, they will only consider corporate rentout. My question is?
How is it renting out to corporations?
Wich sites are good to post the plat on, to find customers?
Is it smart to rent out the flat at all?
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 29 Oct 2009 04:04
by SwamyG
kayzee wrote:Did he mention completion by aug with a 3 month grace period?
For me it was 4 month grace period. After that they start paying us rent at about Rs10 per sq ft.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 01:07
by RamaY
SwamyG wrote:kayzee wrote:Did he mention completion by aug with a 3 month grace period?
For me it was 4 month grace period. After that they start paying us rent at about Rs10 per sq ft.
Just returned from desh. It is highly possible that they will complete that Ramky project by 2010 end. I like the location. If one is working in Hitech/Financial city areas, it is a heaven to live there. IMO Hitech City / Gachi Bowli area will be the new center of Hyderabad in 5-10 years as there are more than 3-5 lakh jobs in that 2-3 KM radius area.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 01:46
by SwamyG
Isn't that area mind and eye boggling?
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 02:17
by RamaY
It truly is. I have visited desh six times in the past 3 years and everytime I go there, this area looks different. I was thinking about selling my land which is on the road between DPS and OakRidge school. Now I am in a dilemma as the Outer Ring Road is ~500 feet from my site and the on other side Deloitte building (next to wipro campus) is hardly 1500 ft.
Did you notice the new road from Hitech City connecting the Bombay highway parallel to the road where Ramy project is? A new Quality/Holiday Inn hotel came on the road. Once the Ramky and Lanco projects complete (another year) the whole area reminds one of a western downtown...
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 10 Nov 2009 21:18
by rohitvats
Donning my Real Estate Consulting hat:
Rishirishi wrote:My parents are thinking to rent out a flat in Noida, 3/4 bedroom, 5th floor with double lift, pool and 24 hour electricity water backup "best" society in sector 50 . They asked me to place an ad in the internet

, they will only consider corporate rentout. My question is?
How is it renting out to corporations?
Wich sites are good to post the plat on, to find customers?
Is it smart to rent out the flat at all?
It is a good idea to rent out to corporations. The main reason being as follows:
1. Timely payment - The money will be deposited to your account every month in timely fashion. No need to run after tenant and giving calls asking for rent
2. Lease Agreement is with the company and not an indivisual. Rest assured, no one is going to squat on your territory. No legal hassles. An IBM/Suzuki is not going to get its name dragged into court for XYZ amount
3. If your apartment is as chi chi as you just described, the company will put there some high ranking person or better still and expat. Good family, lesser chance of more than usual wear and tear.
One thing you can do is show willingness to furnish the apartment - fully or partially(like provide white goods). While the investment in latter case may be 100K - 150K...you can recover that money really fast. You can ask for higher rental. Also, chances of leasing out fast increase.
You can contact companies like Cushman and Wakefield/CBRE/JLLM/Knight Frank/Colliers and get your property in their database. These International Property Consultancies have Reidential Transaction/Brokerage divisions which also look into Corporate relocation. They deal with fairly senior people, more often than not exapts, and may be able to help you.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 10 Nov 2009 21:34
by rohitvats
shyamd wrote:Supposedly from 2011, loads of big bankers in yindoostan predict that real estate is going to be huge. So lots of big players are positioning themselves at the moment, buying up loads of land etc in cities also areas outside the cities.
My dear goood sir, that is (statement of bankers), to put it mildly, pure and distilled BS.
Many of these big developers are in shit because of buying land/trying to buy land left-right and center and blocking money. They thought that whatever they built, will get sold.Nothing is going to happen between now and 2011 to warrant such a statement. The vacancy in all the segments of real estate - Residential/Retail/Office is very large and before this vacant stock gets absorbed and we reach stable vacancy levels, nothing new is going to come up which is sustainable.
The main reason for this mess is the greed of developers. They have priced themselves out of the market. Pure and simple. Example: If Phase I of Project X (~200 apartments) has been sold at an average price of 2400/sft with last few apartmens getting sold at ~2800-3000/Sft, it does not mean that Phase II (200 more apartments) can be sold at an average price 3000+ /sq.ft.
As for the DLF Report, it sold Phase I of project fast as it was selling at 50%-60% of price as obtained in that market. Till recently, DDA had monopoly on what could be built in Delhi. This created an acute demand supply mismatch. Only options available in the area of DLF Project are independent bunglows, something like one finds in layouts in Bangalore. The average price being 1+ Crore. If in this market you sell something for 60-70 Lakhs, it will sell like hot cakes. DLF sold Phase II of the same project at 35% premium to Phase I price. They actually asked public to give feedback on acceptable price level through 400 brokers. This from a company which till Q1 was saying that only reason sales are not happening is high interest rates. DLF simply did not want to acknowledge that it was selling apartments at unsustainable prices.
It is not that there is no demand for residential segment. There is huge unmet demand. What is important is the price points. As I said before, the developers have priced themseves out of market. Right product at right price and right location will always sell. And mind you, building something 35 Kms from main economic centers and then calling it affordable is another variety of high grade BS.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 10 Nov 2009 21:56
by SwamyG
RamaY gaaru: Apke moh me ghee shakar. There is Bamboos coming up closer too. My only worry is lifestyle sustainability in that area. Water and traffic problems would have to be looked into. In G.bowli, IIRC, there are at least 4-5 skyscraper projects. I tried to ask "aren't you guys depending too much on NRIs and IT professionals". They did not directly answer the questions. But all builders seemed buoyant about the future.
Dabbling in stocks, I know it is tough to find the bottom for a buy. One just watches the trend and makes a decision and faces the consequences. So though I suspect the prices could go down - there is nothing sure to be said for the next year or two. But considering the projections for growth of India, five to ten years down the time, the RoI should be good for these flats. And if dollar falls down even further, it is good to begin the diversification, no?
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 11 Nov 2009 20:51
by Bade
B'lore builders are asking 5-7 crores for villas built 30+km from the nearest city limits.

Similar luxury segment in massa would not cost you more than a million dollars at most (ie, 5 crores onlee) and it will come with good roads and shopping and hospitals not far from the outer limits of the enclaves. Not to mention good schools for free too.
What are these people smoking in India.

Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 11 Nov 2009 21:06
by Vipul
Badeji, A lot of No 2 income is invested in such premium construction types. I have heard such dealings take place even in companies which tout 100% check payment.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 12 Nov 2009 00:06
by vera_k
There's the #2 alright. But India has no death tax and waives off capital gains if proceeds from prior real estate sales are reinvested into real estate. So there's a perfect recipe for a Ponzi scheme right there.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 12 Nov 2009 08:24
by Umrao Das
vera_k wrote:There's the #2 alright. But India has no death tax and waives off capital gains if proceeds from prior real estate sales are reinvested into real estate. So there's a perfect recipe for a Ponzi scheme right there.
waives off capital gains if proceeds from prior real estate sales are reinvested into real estate.
That is true even in US if it is done with in three years.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 12 Nov 2009 08:48
by Rahul Mehta
vera_k wrote:There's the #2 alright. But India has no death tax and waives off capital gains if proceeds from prior real estate sales are reinvested into real estate. So there's a perfect recipe for a Ponzi scheme right there.
And India also doesnt have wealth tax.
In US, there is wealth tax, inheritance tax and so real estate is not a Ponzi scheme for individuals. But pls note the loophole -- Banks (and thus the elitemen who own banks) dont have to pay wealth tax or death tax . Hence the real estate is in US a Ponzi scheme open for elitemen only and not for commons

.
The problems of US are for US to solve. We can solve this problems using 2% wealth tax on land and 35% inheritance, and canceling waiver of capital gains above Rs 20,00,000/- .
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 12 Nov 2009 09:10
by Bade
Vipul wrote:Badeji, A lot of No 2 income is invested in such premium construction types. I have heard such dealings take place even in companies which tout 100% check payment.
Maybe true, but why would such ill gotten wealth be paid to live with commons. Some one who can milk off crores each day will not bother to live in a community enclave, however elite it may be. Will require a fortified single family occupancy sprawling farm house type of dwelling to meet their security and privacy needs.
So these newly minted 5 crore range villas on small lots with sizes like 5000sqft to 10,000sqft are for the MNC types at most, or TFTA-wannabe SDREs like me. The builders have no problem with mentioning the price in crores be it flats or villas. So it has become the norm nowadays looks like. The only time I have never got any responses were for some of the prime sea-view ones in Mumbai.

This indicated to me that either they were really out of my reach (most are anyways, this is a nice game to play with builder-wallahs, asking for a price quote) and they could sense it, or else some real do-numberi is going on there for those hot properties.
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 12 Nov 2009 09:37
by Umrao Das
True if ther is no will then in US you end up paying IRS more than inheriting for Estate left overs.
Hence the axiom of spinster.
"Where there is a Will there is way to prevent Heir Loss"
Re: Indian Real Estate Sector
Posted: 12 Nov 2009 10:09
by Singha
indeed - the truly rich do not want to mix with the chatterati/MNC/expat types in these gated communes. they have their own friend and cultural/business circles who generally tone down the "show of wealth" except on rare occasions like marriages or political functions.
film artistes, rich businessmen, politicians, land sharks, industrialists are
never seen in these villa communities.
I suppose the villa dwellers are also glad not to have convoys of cars,
supporters, hangers on , bodyguards constantly moving at all hours and
endangering their wives and kids. the people who moved around with armed guards generally dont have much civic sense and wont listen to any common-good suggestions willingly.