The Red Menace

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Jun 2009 02:57

Abhi_G wrote
Brihaspati, where is Vinod Mishra in the Naxal spectrum?

The second prominent organizer to adopt the more flexible "conditional cooperation and utilization" of the "parliamentary road" (the first being the Rana group). Shows all the characteristics of the classical "Leninist" professional revolutionary - even in the contradictions and confusions of personal life. Makes one almost wistful, as to if such "persistence/dedication" could be caught early on within a proper Indic framework. As far as I am aware of, was financially incorruptible.

This is what also makes me simultaneously sad and angry. So much potential lost to an ideology which for obvious reasons would be extremely seductive to the core ideology of the Indic - plain living/ "bahujana sukhayo - bahujana hitayo"/ of selfless "warrior" saints. Some take it seriously, and which shows their Indic foundations.

Just in case, people heat up in righteous indignation, I do moan the loss of dedicated youth to the Marxist cause, and just as in case of EJ or Islam, my anger is directed at the ideology and its preachers or purveyors much more than those they convert.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Jun 2009 04:55

How true are the accusations of police brutality and atrocities? Humans being humans, I assume that some incidents could have happened. But what is percentage of such incidents? And why are younger tribal attracted towards Maoists?

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 22 Jun 2009 06:57

IndraD wrote:Malaria kills more people than Maoists in Orissa
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mala ... 682964.cms

The fact that so many people die due to poverty means that Nbjprie and people who support corruption of Nbjprie (by supporting laws that promote corruption and opposing laws that stop corruption) are much bigger menace than Naxals.

So we should deal with BOTH scums - Naxals as well as people who support pro-corruption laws.

---

suryag wrote:7 Naxals gunned down in Dantewada
1. Guys we at BRF have become indifferent to the killings by these naxals .

2. Do the new COBRA forces fan out in the jungle in small numbers and hit the naxals in the forests ala special forces. I would like these guys to do that. Once this is done the forests will no longer be a safe haven for the naxals and they might come into the cities where they are more of sitting ducks for our policemen

suryag,

1. Only some guys, mostly those who cherish growth rates, claim that poverty is reducing (which is why Naxals and conversions are reducing, right?

) etc are indifferent, because they see Naxalism as a phenomenon which will soon pass away because of growth rate, vikaaaas, development, all encompassing development, SEZs, infrastructure growth and, sensex etc. Other than them, every Indian, be BRite or non-BRite is actively worried about rising deaths of policemen, soldiers, commons in India.

2. Much praised COBRA forces were superior because they had better weapons. Now MNCs, Christianists, have given good weapons to Naxals too. As we know, Americans had sent one plane to give weapons to Naxals, and that plane was caught by Air Force. But how many planes went thru without getting caught is anybody's guess Essentially, pilots of these plane know that even if they get caught, the PM and HomeMin will take bribes or otherwise release them (eg in Purulia arms drop case, Pilots were released after zero or unknown amount changed hands). So given that Naxals have huge cache of arms, policemen will be facing far far more severe fight now.

------

Gerard wrote:'Scared' Lalgarh cops using youths as shields

Gerard,

If this is true, what solution do you propose? Or do you propose that we should let policemen use these youth as human mine sweeper?

-----

SwamyG wrote:How true are the accusations of police brutality and atrocities? Humans being humans, I assume that some incidents could have happened. But what is percentage of such incidents? And why are younger tribal attracted towards Maoists?

The Police atrocities are due to two reasons --

1. human factor that policemen under stress and fear would go nuts and

2. policemen to collect bribes or protect corrupt Nbjprie beat the cr1p out of commons.

The second factor creates 100 to 200 more atrocities than first. The first factor is universal, be US or Sweden or everywhere. In all countries, a policeman walking on street is always under far far more stressed and under fear than a common. So some provocation that wont bother a common can make a policeman flip out and resort to beating. But if that alone was the cause in India, then police atrocities in India would been no more than in West. But we know that police atrocities in India are 100 times more than West. And the reasons are

1. The policemen in order to collect bribes beat commons shamelessly

2. The junior policemen are told to beat the arrested ones by seniors, as the arrested one is a threat to the incomes of some Nbjprie.

Also, in India, a policemen works 12-14 hours a day 6 to 6.5 day a week. So they are more stressed out than policemen in West. Some 50% policemen in India have no access to bribery and live in pittance salary (eg in many units CRPF and SRP get no bribes below DySP level). So they too are more likely to loot and atrocities. And above all, most policemen rightly think that they can commit any crime and will never get punished. They are sometimes punished, but such stray cases dont make much impact. And worse, they are often punished for wrong reasons --- eg a judge in order to score brownie points imprisoned a policeman who shot at a crowd which was trying to set fire a truck. Such cases make policemen more likely to flip out.

When it comes to atrocities, Maoists are far ahead of policemen, and so there are more villagers who would support policemen than Maoists if atrocities were reason. But the reason that drives many commons to Naxals is not just police atrocities but poverty. Past sixty years of experience conclusively proves beyond a any reasonable doubt that Nbjprie do not want to reduce poverty and instead would support all laws that would INCREASE poverty. And so the poor are drifting towards Naxals.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Jun 2009 07:32

SwamyGji,
one incident within every 5 years in a 10 sq.km zone, is good enough to keep it in long term memory. Tribals meet regularly in the local markets and fests, and they are also connected in a social network independent of the "mainstream" system. In roughly 15 villages, in the tri-junction now part of Jharkhand, I noted approximately 3-5 "serious" incidents every year over a period of a decade. Certain villages were more prone to attract the attentions of the "lower" functionaries - most cases that infuriated the tribals were accusations of "rape" of tribal women, (and not all were mere fantasy - this eyewitness was forcibly gagged by a sympathetic tribal and head kept down while some distance away such an atrocity was taking place, for he felt that as a possible squealer this witness would be "eliminated" immediately. It is still difficult to swallow after so many years. ) Certain types of urban Left intellectuals were equally detested - for they also thought forests were for the ha(n)ryia and the women and who took advantage of the relative sexual freedoms certain tribal groups allowed its women.

Most atrocities were carried out directly by businessmen or contractors and their henchmen. When things got a bit too hot, these brought in their urban and establishment connections in uniform. The latter then took their pound of flesh. I would tend to agree with 75% of what the victims claim.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Jun 2009 11:58

'Marxists, Maoists... Is there a difference?'

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 22 Jun 2009 12:25

Sanjay, it is not clear that any plan was "thwarted". They were apparently in Indian airspace for 2 1/2 hours. Who knows what they dropped and where.

sanjaychoudhry wrote: I know the US embassy dudes are red-faced about the intrusion being detected (and their operation being thwarted). They are furiously spinning psyops in Indian media to make it seem like a very minor and harmless matter. Hence stories such as "wrong call sign by mistake by Russian pilots to avoid the long Indian bureacratic procedures to take permisison for military aircraft" and -- this is the latest spin --"Oh, don't worry, the plane was carrying medicines anyway."

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Jun 2009 12:44

Pranav wrote:Sanjay, it is not clear that any plan was "thwarted". They were apparently in Indian airspace for 2 1/2 hours. Who knows what they dropped and where.

sanjaychoudhry wrote: I know the US embassy dudes are red-faced about the intrusion being detected (and their operation being thwarted). They are furiously spinning psyops in Indian media to make it seem like a very minor and harmless matter. Hence stories such as "wrong call sign by mistake by Russian pilots to avoid the long Indian bureacratic procedures to take permisison for military aircraft" and -- this is the latest spin --"Oh, don't worry, the plane was carrying medicines anyway."

Why overfly India at all??

The AN -124 has the range to make kandahar from diego garcia
without overflying Indian airspace.

If fuel was an issue at all because of the payload, they could have easily topped up at Colombo and proceeded to kandahar.

Their cruising altitude is generally around 35,000 ft, like any other commercial flight. Very difficult to make any drops from that height. He would have to come down very much lower to be able to control the drop.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 22 Jun 2009 12:46

chetak wrote: Why overfly India at all??

The AN -124 has the range to make kandahar from diego garcia
without overflying Indian airspace.

If fuel was an issue at all because of the payload, they could have easily topped up at Colombo and proceeded to kandahar.

hint hint: repeat of purulia arms drop

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 22 Jun 2009 13:19

^^^
Ppl. does anybody know the route the An-124 took during its India overflight? Can we then think of potential 'airdrops' & the intended 'consumer'?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Jun 2009 13:34

ravi_ku wrote:
chetak wrote: Why overfly India at all??

The AN -124 has the range to make kandahar from diego garcia
without overflying Indian airspace.

If fuel was an issue at all because of the payload, they could have easily topped up at Colombo and proceeded to kandahar.
hint hint: repeat of purulia arms drop

Your point is taken. However

The purulia aircraft was a AN-26, fitted with an adapted bombing sight for lower level drops.

The purulia aircraft was tooling around at a much lower height and very much off course.

The rusting hulk of the purulia aircraft can still be spotted at Bombay airport.

This AN -124 guy was tracked from even before he entered Indian airspace. He was always at height and too high to make any drop with even a small chance of reasonably accurate delivery. The IAF has some pretty sophisticated long range radars in that area and are never off the air.

The intel guys would have definitely pinched some of the reactive armour tiles as well as some of the other interesting masala. Hope that they land up in the right hands.

No one will complain under the circumstances, right

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Jun 2009 13:38

derkonig wrote:^^^
Ppl. does anybody know the route the An-124 took during its India overflight? Can we then think of potential 'airdrops' & the intended 'consumer'?

Apparently it was an extrapolated line joining diego garcia and Bombay and thence onward to pakiland en route kandahar.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 22 Jun 2009 16:55

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 680453.cms

'Grounded' US aircraft cleared for takeoff

21 Jun 2009

NEW DELHI: After a thorough check and clearance given by the foreign ministry, the IAF on Saturday cleared US-hired Ukrainian-made AN-124 cargo
aircraft to resume its flight to Kandahar.

The cargo plane was on Friday force to land at Mumbai airport after confusion was created by the call sign made by the aircraft. The aircraft owned by a private Russian airline and hired by the Americans for their operations in Afghanistan, claimed that it had clearance from the Directorate-General of Civil Aviation to overfly Indian air space with a call sign attributed to civilian aircraft.

However, the IAF air traffic controller claimed it heard a different call sign generally attributed to a defence aircraft before it entered the Indian air space.

IAF spokesperson T K Singha said on checking the aircraft two vehicles meant for American officials fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan and boxes of medicines were found. There were a total of 18 persons on board the aircraft, including a five-member crew.

Singha said the aircraft was allowed to get airborne after the foreign ministry gave the "Air Operations Routing (AOR) authority to fly over Indian air space changing the call sign of the plane to that of a defence aircraft".

This was, however, not the first time that such an aircraft had intruded into Indian air space. Agency reports quoted unidentified IAF officials as saying the AN-124 had been operating on the same flight plan in the last fortnight and had come under adverse notice because of its call sign.

"The aircraft used a civilian aircraft call sign VDA 4466, whereas its original call sign was REACH 813, which implied it was a military cargo aircraft," they said.

For giving clearance to a foreign military aircraft for using Indian air space, the request has to be routed through MEA, intelligence agencies and then the IAF. In this case, the Russian operator obtained a civilian call sign that led to the confusion.

The aircraft was chartered by the US military for long-range military cargo delivery and air-dropping of troops. It had taken off on Friday for Kandahar from Diego Garcia, the island near Mauritius in the Indian Ocean which has a huge US military base.

======================

IOW, pilots know that in case IAF catches them supplying weapons to Naxals, corrupt PM will order IAF and policemen a release. So now 10 more flights will come to give weapons to Naxals.

MMS has outperformed ABV-EP when it comes to releasing weapon suppliers.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Jun 2009 17:33

Looks more and more like the case of right hand not knowing what the left hand does. The civilian call sign could not have been given without knowledge by sections within the intel. There are many advantages to changing the call sign while over India. Non-US intel would be keeping an eye out and pass on the info to forces ranged against US, and tracking of military supply lines would be an important part of assessing the amount of supplies or deliveries being built up. It is likely that the US side arranged this with GOI at the top most levels to prevent any possible leakage by parts of Indian establishment whom both the top-most level of GOI as well as the US do not trust. The critical part of this is that even perhaps the IAF was probably kept out of the understanding. However it is significant that no fighter aircraft took to the air immediately to escort the plane. So they might have been informed at the last moment once the detection took place within a section of monitoring apparatus that had not been taken into confidence.

This cargo plane is a blue-whale of a carrier. The cargo description being dished out would leave a very large void in its hold indeed. All that empty airspace in the cargo hold just for nothing!

Moreover such incidents would be nice scenarios in the future to transfer "medicines" to GOI, as and when necessary - by getting caught and being forced to land.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Jun 2009 17:46

Thank you brihaspati ji. The summary is as a country we have to do a lot to provide security, justice & opportunities to the tribal. I do not want to use the words "uplift of tribal" or "bringing them into mainstream" from their perspective. But from a nationalistic perspective we have to use such words in order to remove them as a fodder for internal and external enemies. Until we do that, we can not just wish away Maoists or violence. I am wondering what is the dharmic way of handling this? Is Ekal Vidyalaya not in these zones?

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 22 Jun 2009 17:52

Centre declares Maoists a terrorist organization

NEW DELHI: The Centre on Monday banned the CPI (Maoist) under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, calling it a terrorist organization.

West Bengal's ruling Left Front on Monday said it was against banning the CPI (Maoist) and will counter such outfits politically,

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Jun 2009 18:39

SwamyGji, I did not see any until atleast in the period I witnessed, up to 2000. As far as my current sources say, there still are not any. There has been some NGO penetration and quarter-hearted gov attempts at "education". Establishing a no-nonsense basic education, healthcare and microcredit, and perhaps some degree of ownership/control/share in the management of forest/natural resources - none of which they have access to - should go a long way towards "integration".

Our basic problem is our so-called allowance of "diversity" and use of it as an excuse to ossify artificial boundaries and divisions. The gov, or the society at large - does not think of the tribals as essentially humans of the same order as themselves. So they are treated administratively, ideologically and practically just as "special needs" children are treated. It is our fault that we think of them as "different", and not as "amritasya putraa". The dharmic way to do that would be first a basic overturning of the schema of categories and divisions within the Bharatyia "ideology" that we have allowed to be made permanent. When we recognize "divisions" the divisions are strengthened. Sometimes it is impossible not to recognize such divisions. But the difference between "tribals" and "mainstream" society is not something that cannot be erased - and the precedence narratives in Indic traditions indicate that it has been done in the past. Ataviks were not necessarily always "demonic", and Chanaka went from Bimbisara's court to live and die among them. The same is the story with Ram or Bhima.

As long as this "special" treatment goes on, Maoists or others of their ilk will find them fertile ground to carry out their agenda - as basically they try to "empower" the tribals to a certain extent.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Jun 2009 20:04

brihaspati wrote:The longer an armed insurrectionist movement survives within a rashtra, the greater is the chance and proportion of penetration of these organizations by the rashtryia secret services. In India this training was imparted and carried out effectively by the British - so that details of meetings and plans were almost always presented while prosecuting "revolutionaries". So much so that one has to wonder whether many of these groups had not been penetrated by gov agents who manipulate the groups tp carry out outrages at opportune moments so that the gov can either wipe the group out or use the "outrage" to carry out political and administrative measures that otherwise might have been difficult to implement.

Brihaspati-ji

We have a great telugu movie "Drohi" by Kamal-hasan and Arjun as heros on this subject. That movie wonderfully presents what you have said. The most intriguing part is at the end, when both intelligence (the only knowledgeable person about this operation) and naxal chiefs die in the shootout and the rashtriya implant is forced to take over the reins of the resistance.

Reality is stranger than fiction!!!

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Jun 2009 20:07

In short "The Red Menace" will continue as long as we continue to ignore the tribes. And it looks like the Leftist/Marxist ideologies have not really helped the needy people. Hope dharmic NGOs get into the act.

RamaY: You must be talking about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuruthipunal Some folks consider it one of the best movies in tamil.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Jun 2009 20:28

SwamyG wrote:In short "The Red Menace" will continue as long as we continue to ignore the tribes. And it looks like the Leftist/Marxist ideologies have not really helped the needy people. Hope dharmic NGOs get into the act.

RamaY: You must be talking about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuruthipunal Some folks consider it one of the best movies in tamil.

Yes SwamyG. I read that it is a remake of hindi "Drohkaal". A brilliant movie nevertheless. Better than the "Departed" that won Ascar.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Jun 2009 21:03

The great justice Rajinder Sachar is on TV arguing against the ban on Maoists on TV right now...

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 22 Jun 2009 23:19

Fashion of the day seems to be threatening

Of late we have seen every G***u threatening with burning up this that as if this is their jagir

If I'm arrested, Lalgarh will be torn by violence'
http://www.rediff.com/news/interview/20 ... cities.htm

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 22 Jun 2009 23:41

sum wrote:The great justice Rajinder Sachar is on TV arguing against the ban on Maoists on TV right now...

These people are Maoists themselves and belong in jail. There is no need to be impressed with their English or whatever position they were holding before retirement. A traitor is a traitor.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Jun 2009 23:59

Almost all channels have GUBO ed to Maoists, like NDTV, Star News but I was surprised to see Zee news carrying out 30 min programme : maoist nahi aatankvadi. Then what are they every day killing policemen like stray dogs?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 23 Jun 2009 00:00

CPI-Maoist banned to avoid ambiguity: Chidambaram

The Centre on Monday said it banned Communist Party of India-Maoist as a terror organisation to avoid any ambiguity after the merger of Communist Party of India-(Marxist Leninist) Liberation and Maoist Communist Centre in 2004.
Union Home Minister P Chidambaram [ Images ] told mediapersons in New Delhi [ Images ] that the CPI-Maoist was formed after the merger of two organisations -- CPI (ML) People's War and MCC, both of which were already banned outfits under the Unlawaful Activities (Prevention) Act.

"All that we have done today is to avoid any ambiguity. We have added the words of CPI-Maoist in the schedule of the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act," he said, adding "It was always a terror organisation and today an ambiguity has been removed." Chidambaram said the merged organisation will continue to be a terror organisation as that is the position in the law.

"When I looked into the matter, a couple of days ago, I said that may be the position in the law...In order to avoid any ambiguity, let's add CPI-Maoist by name in that schedule of the Act," he said on the move to declare the CPI-Maoist as a banned organisation.

He said a number of states, including Andhra Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh [ Images ] and Chhattisgarh, have declared CPI-Maoist as an Unlawful association and others like Bihar, Orissa, Jharkhand and Tamil Nadu have done so under the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act.

"When I had a discussion with West Bengal [ Images ] Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattachrajee, I advised him to ban CPI-Maoist under section 16 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1908. That power is available with the state government. I didn't change my view. I still think that West Bengal government should declare CPI-Maoist as unlawful association," he said.

To a question about opposition from Left parties, especially the Communist Party of India-Marxist, he said the Left has taken a view which is not of the West Bengal government.

"I hope distinction between the party and the government is still there in this country. I expect that Chief Minister (Buddhadeb) will look into the matter and I hope that the state cabinet will take an appropriate decision," he said.

In September 2004, CPI(ML) and MCC announced their decision to merge and named the new organisation as CPI (Maoist).

There was some opposition to the merger and some elements in the two organisations continued to function independently.

After some months, the merger seemed to have been accepted broadly, even though there are still some groups in some states which continue to have differences over the issue.

The Unlawful Activities Prevention Act enables the Central government to declare an association as unlawful (Section 3).

It also contains a definition of 'terrorist organisation' in Section 2(1)(m) and the terrorist organisations are listed in the Schedule of the Act.

With the CPI(Maoist), the Centre has so far declared 35 organisations as banned outfits. Those already banned include Lashkar-e-Taiba, Hijbul Mujahideen [ Images ], Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam and United Liberation Front of Asom.

© Copyright 2009 PTI. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of PTI content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Jun 2009 01:00

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
sum wrote:The great justice Rajinder Sachar is on TV arguing against the ban on Maoists on TV right now...
These people are Maoists themselves and belong in jail. There is no need to be impressed with their English or whatever position they were holding before retirement. A traitor is a traitor.

Some of our other greats will soon also start to itch in unmentionable places.

With our leftist tv anchors panting breathlessly about deprived peoples and root causes, all the while drawing six figure salaries and lolling about in air conditioned, swanky offices

kangressi vendetta against the karats is boundless.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 23 Jun 2009 02:13

Outlaw prescription hasn’t cured Red corridor

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 23 Jun 2009 03:16

That is excellent slide and exactly what I was looking like.

One thing that comes out is that the folks from West Bengal and Andhra were leading this multi-pronged strategy to bring the Andhra-WB corridor in turmoil. TN as it is/was affllicted with "Dravidian" or "Tamil" faultline and further north-east we had the several Naga, Mizo type insurgencies exploited by outsiders. The bigger strategy looks like is/was to screw India along the eastern coastline.

Lately, we all know that the plan was expanded to link up this corridar all the way upto Nepal getting several more states into its grip.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 23 Jun 2009 09:22

Surprised that even now West Bengal State Govt. is not ready to proscribe the CPI(Maoist) organisation. Is it that the minister and intellegentsia in the state are so much communism infested that they cannot see reality (just like the intelligentsia in the other socialist republic - Kerala)

.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 23 Jun 2009 14:34

Maoists ready for talks, call for ceasefire
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/maois ... re/480260/
There should be a poliiical solution rather the forceful solution.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 23 Jun 2009 14:42

Sachin wrote:Surprised that even now West Bengal State Govt. is not ready to proscribe the CPI(Maoist) organisation. Is it that the minister and intellegentsia in the state are so much communism infested that they cannot see reality (just like the intelligentsia in the other socialist republic - Kerala) .

Only politically and economically, we can eradicate them.
If we will try the force, the problem will increase.
Most of their fight is related with poverty and against police's atrocity.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 23 Jun 2009 15:24

West Bengal govt accepts central ban on Maoists
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/west- ... ts/480286/

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Jun 2009 15:48

Jamal K. Malik wrote:
Sachin wrote:Surprised that even now West Bengal State Govt. is not ready to proscribe the CPI(Maoist) organisation. Is it that the minister and intellegentsia in the state are so much communism infested that they cannot see reality (just like the intelligentsia in the other socialist republic - Kerala) .
Only politically and economically, we can eradicate them.
If we will try the force, the problem will increase.
Most of their fight is related with poverty and against police's atrocity.

Are we to do the same with the lashkar and the jaish??

They also claim noble ideals

bart · Post by **bart** » 23 Jun 2009 16:42

Jamal K. Malik wrote:
Sachin wrote:Surprised that even now West Bengal State Govt. is not ready to proscribe the CPI(Maoist) organisation. Is it that the minister and intellegentsia in the state are so much communism infested that they cannot see reality (just like the intelligentsia in the other socialist republic - Kerala) .
Only politically and economically, we can eradicate them.
If we will try the force, the problem will increase.
Most of their fight is related with poverty and against police's atrocity.

What hogwash. These guys go about killing innocent countrymen with cold-blooded ruthlessness and no remorse, and actively collaborate with external enemies of the nation. Stop trying to paint them as some kind of Gandhian/Martin Luther King type rights movement.

News flash for you: Most of the people in our country are poor and everybody has some kind of grouse or issue with various facets of government machinery, whether rich or poor. Doesn't justify terrorism against your own country.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 23 Jun 2009 18:21

Only politically and economically, we can eradicate them.
If we will try the force, the problem will increase.
Most of their fight is related with poverty and against police's atrocity.

No political solutions for naxals.

We need police-administrative solution. Increase number of policemen, give them better arms and better training. And reduce corruption in policemen and reduce atrocities using administrative means. And reduce poverty to ensure that lesser commons support Naxals.

But no dialogs with Naxals.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Jun 2009 18:23

Bart -> I totally with agree with you, Policemen make pitance, truckdrivers killed make even less but Maoists buy explosives, satellite phones, AK-47's and are trained in using these items. They are certainly not poor or underprivelged, and it is obvious that there are people supplying and funding them. And rich film personalities, rich book writers, judges and hyper rich mediamen are supporting them, they never complain about a few rich countries hoarding a bulk of the wealth and resources where thier children reside, using visa the strict visa restrictions while thier ancestors decimated red indians and aborgines in thier own land, what visa was used then?. None of these people are poor, they only take an anti India stance on everything.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 23 Jun 2009 18:31

brihaspati wrote:
Abhi_G wrote
Brihaspati, where is Vinod Mishra in the Naxal spectrum?
The second prominent organizer to adopt the more flexible "conditional cooperation and utilization" of the "parliamentary road" (the first being the Rana group). Shows all the characteristics of the classical "Leninist" professional revolutionary - even in the contradictions and confusions of personal life. Makes one almost wistful, as to if such "persistence/dedication" could be caught early on within a proper Indic framework. As far as I am aware of, was financially incorruptible.

This is what also makes me simultaneously sad and angry. So much potential lost to an ideology which for obvious reasons would be extremely seductive to the core ideology of the Indic - plain living/ "bahujana sukhayo - bahujana hitayo"/ of selfless "warrior" saints. Some take it seriously, and which shows their Indic foundations.

Just in case, people heat up in righteous indignation, I do moan the loss of dedicated youth to the Marxist cause, and just as in case of EJ or Islam, my anger is directed at the ideology and its preachers or purveyors much more than those they convert.

B as usual a hit to the core. this point about about indic strain is very true. and often overlooked. UR Ananthamurthy is a prime example of this. He straddles both worlds without any internal contradiction and mostly because of his indic roots. ditto others. If you read/follow telugu poets like varavara rao and gaddar you get the same realization. varavara rao is more sanskritic than gaddar but they have the same rooted-ness. gaddar ofcourse has more flash and he dresses for effect too.

I think this attraction to youth is about coherence. the 'revolutionary' story is comprehensive and, to top it, romantic. but the important thing is that their story makes IT accessible, because it is laid out in terms of clear dos-donts. again, very formulaic. that it comes with "theory" does not hurt either. couple of people i know from college days who took that route even if through UMys/TISS. it takes some life to realize theory means nothing.

gaddar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULv0MBRedk4
varavara: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-LzZC3B0gQ

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Jun 2009 18:42

The reason CPI(M) is against using the police-admin approach of the Congress towards making these things purely law-and-order is the experience of the political costs of such measures in the electoral process. This very approach succesfully destroyed Naxalism in WB in the late 70's but at the same time wiped Congress off the WB charts. It has taken a full generational cycle for the people to forget what the Congress-wallahs - the Yuva-Congress and the Cong-shals did to innocent people in the name of tackling "Naxalism", so that Congress could become remotely acceptable now. Same was the case in Punjab. The famous grandson of C.R.Das is sorely missed!

Carefully note the timing of banning of the CPI(Maoists), and the bracketing of the five states again together. In a majority of this, anti-Congress forces are weakening but not yet completely gone. CPI(M) will be in a dilemma, for Congress mobilized rashtryia "corrective" measures will definitely be used by certain sections to carry out atrocities which will however then get reflected on the WB state admin which in turn will be used by the Congress electorally against the CPI(M). It is a win-win situation for Congress, from which the political mandarins at Alimuddin St., want to disassociate the CPI(M).

And ultimately who will win in this game long-run? Neither the Congress (which will surely get the gov-side of the CPI(M) cooing rather softly to "Central gov" ears to keep the pressure up on MB) nor TMC, nor CPI(M). Maoists actually have a good chance, if they can put up a mass front with politcal posturings that is willing to use the "parliamentary road". This would have been the right time for a certain "right" wing party to move in to fill up the vacuum. But I don't think they have the time. They have the far more engaging task to bicker like tiny tots wiping their snots in angry jealousy in public.

And please dont say the "root cause" is poverty/atrocity etc. - they are not the root causes for Naxalite violence. They are facts used by Naxalite leadership, mostly derived from "upper/forward sections" of Indian majority community stratifications, just as most leadership in "parliamentarian" Left are, - who are searching out their own route for personal power and dominance, and looking for a captive constituency to ride on.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Jun 2009 18:55

shaardulaji,
I do prefer Varavara Rao more than the other, who seems intensely passionate but more regimented and less "poetic". And my sense of language makes me even more sad, that these people are being cramped by their ideological commitment. You can almost sense the hidden linguistic expressive power, but nipped and nibbled and moth-eaten by ideological correctness. What a loss indeed.

Someone in this forum quoted a poem by Rabindranath. The aspirations for freedom, mentioned there, for me, have a much deeper content than the context in which it was quoted to me. I look for the freedom with which Kalidaasa expressed himself, or Shudraka - this great land of mine that inspires stupendous emotions and feelings should not be held in check by a limited vision ideology. These ideologies we pander to do not make us free, free in the real sense which our ancients have left tantalizing glimpses about, the limitless freedom of the mind to think and to feel. One of my objections to the imposition of ideologies like Marxism and its derivatives, or the Abrahamic - is that they restrict our intellectual freedom, a solid birthright and freedom for all Indics.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 23 Jun 2009 19:24

sure B, i completely agree. but you have had a life behind it to understand all this. the kids have not. and they will be impotent and more importantly, un-indic if they merely take your word about it. the unideological 'dasa and 'draka were a product of their times. in our intensely ideological times how can anybody, who is not karanjohar, be like them? in anycase, we cant drink milk with our eyes closed.

ps: it is heartening to see that somebody realizes the true experience and contribution of the 'ancients' - verve & vitality.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 23 Jun 2009 19:27

Tense time ahead ....

Maoists will stage a spectacular act like hijacking a bus full of people, or disrupting long distance train service. .... Recall the Rajdhani Express case a few years ago that killed
scores of passangers.