Indian Autos Thread

[fanne]

It is sad that the Singur blame goes to Mamta, when it is the communists who should be blamed. Had they been not greedy and stuck with the poor whose land they were acquiring (like giving them the market price of the land and then providing them with alternate source of income - with Tata or without), this project would have succeeded. No, it is not Mamta, she stood by people whose land were taken forcibly, it is easy for us to judge that it was in greater good and people should make sacrifices yada yada - when it is not you who is making that sacrifice!!

Hope people of Bengal have the sagacity to see this truth and do not end up once again worshipping a false God

Thanks,
fanne

[Rishirishi]

It is sad that the Singur blame goes to Mamta, when it is the communists who should be blamed. Had they been not greedy and stuck with the poor whose land they were acquiring (like giving them the market price of the land and then providing them with alternate source of income - with Tata or without), this project would have succeeded. No, it is not Mamta, she stood by people whose land were taken forcibly, it is easy for us to judge that it was in greater good and people should make sacrifices yada yada - when it is not you who is making that sacrifice!!

Hope people of Bengal have the sagacity to see this truth and do not end up once again worshipping a false God

Thanks,
fanne

Anyone know the exact figure. How much the farmers were offered and how much the market value is?

[Rahul M]

both the govt and the LF have claimed that the compensation package offered was the best in the country. TMC didn't counter this argument.
the sore points were mainly employment opportunities and loss of livelihood of landless labourers.

[fanne]

I have heard to the contrary. It is said that WB government gave huge concession in land prices to the Tata (which the Guj government did not do, they gave at market price, however they picked the tab of developing the infrastructure around the plant and nearby towns etc. and also they have offered easy and long time installments to pay back the loan for land). Since WB government was not getting much money to begin with the Tatas, they did not have enough to offer to the farmers. Of course since the communists are not corrupt I cannot accuse that they were making money in the middle. Even though Didi might not have made a hue or cry about that, she went to the root cause of it, farmers not willing to give up their land due to low compensation.
rgds,
fanne

Ps- It would be interesting to find out. Keep n mind, both the deals have been under wrap, mainly to hide these kinds of information

[rachel]

this post has been reported with the following wording :

I am so happy that this has happened. W Bengal is backward because the state has turned its back on Hindu values. The W Bengal Communist govt may have wanted this project today, but it has spent the last several decades promoting strikes, labor unrest etc... the deadly poison of Marxist mentality they have sown has come back to bite them.

I would agree. not only are both the assertion and the premise of your reasoning false, it is also highly OT in an autos thread.

[rachel]

[

Well, what I'd like to see now is for Karnataka and Uttarkhand (BJP states) get some of the satellite plants. Wouldnt mind seeing Orissa grab something out od this also, it's a good HIndu state!

[Arya Sumantra]

The compensation given by WB to the farmers is said to be Rs 10 lakh per acre whereas that given by Gujarat is market price(which as per a guess is Rs 1.25 crore per acre). The undercompensation is bound to make farmers unhappy not only in Bengal but anywhere. Latest example is Maharashtra which is also heavily industrialised. For Navi Mumbai SEZ, mukesh ambani is offering so little price per hectare that in a recent voting almost > 80% farmers in maha said no to selling the land. If industrialists are businessmen then farmers too are businessmen. They want the best price for their asset-the land.

[Arya Sumantra]

Pakistan is less successful than India because ot is Muslim majority.

To avoid generalizations, take a look at Dubai or Malaysia. It is the USP that makes/breaks a country's economic success. USP of Dubai is about being truly liberal land in a gulf region dominated by muslim conservatives and is a tax heaven too. They have zero tolerance for violence. Mafia is welcome to settle down and own villas but if they create problems they are out of Dubai. Now others such as Qatar are trying to immitate but Dubai has first mover advantage. BTW they started first coz they don't have much oil.

USP of Malaysia is building first class infrastructure (a contagion it got from Singapore), good governance, presence of enterprising Indian & Chinese entrepreneurs(native malay muslims are not entrepreneurial at all), strategic location in straits of malacca. They attracted a lot of Japanese investment

Hinduism promotes economic success and advancement

It would be safer to say, the religion does not tie us up in constraints(e.g. taking interest is haram etc). Any failure to achieve economic success is purely attributable to individual failure and not due to the religion. Atleast we worship Mahalaxmi(wealth) as a goddess and do not attempt to remove/substitute it by using coupons like the commie russkies, cubans did. That's why the imported commie culture is alien to our indian grassroots. No wonder our enlightened jhola walas of JNU hate hinduism and first become "freethinkers"- a euphemism for atheists.

sorry for getting OT.

[SRoy]

I have heard to the contrary. It is said that WB government gave huge concession in land prices to the Tata (which the Guj government did not do, they gave at market price, however they picked the tab of developing the infrastructure around the plant and nearby towns etc. and also they have offered easy and long time installments to pay back the loan for land). Since WB government was not getting much money to begin with the Tatas, they did not have enough to offer to the farmers. Of course since the communists are not corrupt I cannot accuse that they were making money in the middle. Even though Didi might not have made a hue or cry about that, she went to the root cause of it, farmers not willing to give up their land due to low compensation.
rgds,
fanne

Ps- It would be interesting to find out. Keep n mind, both the deals have been under wrap, mainly to hide these kinds of information

That's the precise reason.

Unfortunately this thread is scattered with gems like...

John
We all win when good things happen. I am sure, these farmers will get job, money from land sale, their kids will go for higher education, they will be able to buy Nano at discounted prices, have pride in manufacturing, increased revenue to state, more prosperity for everyone involved. EDITED

Says a lot about intellectual acumen of BRF nowadays.

An impassioned view is that the problem was of poor project management on part of the WB Govt. (if they understand project management in first place) and to some extent of the TATA's.

Stakeholder management is something that these people did not undertake. No project management team ever gets away with the reasoning that the project was signed with the projects sponsors but the affected groups are none of their responsibilities. Good risk management, BTW.

About the WB govt., less said the better. This gets added to their track record.

A bunch of thugs that are used to practice of snatching/encroaching on common people's assets without any fear of backlash from people or action from centre will continue to cheat the poor and in the way jeopardise every project that they try to sponsor or support.

The commies need to grow up. First it were the farmers at the expense of the industry now it is the other way around. Doesn't work that.

Expect few more Singurs.

[John Snow]

sorry t say this boss I worked for Godrej in the late 70s and till mid 1980s. The work at Culcutta braanch of Godrej& Boyce (100 privately owned, very well payed with diwali bonus etc perks for technicians to management), THE WORK ETHIC WAS WORSE THAN ANY OFB OR PUBLIC SECTOR undertaking. That was jyothi Basu govt, imagine now. To get a bank draft in SBI you had to pay bribe by the small business.

While it is not polite or PC to talk about Bengal, its past its glory unless they awake arise like Swamy Vivekananda said.

What Bengal thinks today is about day before yesterday not even yesterday. This is no reflection on the people there but on the administration and politcs there.

PS> By no means I condone the reckless characterization of people in general.

[hanumadu]

The compensation given by WB to the farmers is said to be Rs 10 lakh per acre whereas that given by Gujarat is market price(which as per a guess is Rs 1.25 crore per acre). The undercompensation is bound to make farmers unhappy not only in Bengal but anywhere. Latest example is Maharashtra which is also heavily industrialised. For Navi Mumbai SEZ, mukesh ambani is offering so little price per hectare that in a recent voting almost > 80% farmers in maha said no to selling the land. If industrialists are businessmen then farmers too are businessmen. They want the best price for their asset-the land.

What do people smoke when writing such stuff? If it is just agricultural land, there is no way it is worth more than 10 lakhs. Most of the farmers are willing to give their land to the project. That shows that the land is not worth more than the Tatas have paid for it.

--hanumadu.

[Sanjay M]

It is sad that the Singur blame goes to Mamta, when it is the communists who should be blamed. Had they been not greedy and stuck with the poor whose land they were acquiring (like giving them the market price of the land and then providing them with alternate source of income - with Tata or without), this project would have succeeded. No, it is not Mamta, she stood by people whose land were taken forcibly, it is easy for us to judge that it was in greater good and people should make sacrifices yada yada - when it is not you who is making that sacrifice!!

Hope people of Bengal have the sagacity to see this truth and do not end up once again worshipping a false God

Thanks,
fanne

Choosing between Mamta and CPI-M is like choosing between Mayawati and Mulayam. Mamta seems to be just as Left-wing proletarian as the CPI-M is.

Let them trade blame as they all go down the tubes together.

Meanwhile, Gujarat's can-do attitude will vault them ahead of the pack.

[bart]

The compensation given by WB to the farmers is said to be Rs 10 lakh per acre whereas that given by Gujarat is market price(which as per a guess is Rs 1.25 crore per acre). The undercompensation is bound to make farmers unhappy not only in Bengal but anywhere. Latest example is Maharashtra which is also heavily industrialised. For Navi Mumbai SEZ, mukesh ambani is offering so little price per hectare that in a recent voting almost > 80% farmers in maha said no to selling the land. If industrialists are businessmen then farmers too are businessmen. They want the best price for their asset-the land.

Boss the difference is that in WB the whole 1000 acres was farmers land. In Gujarat the 1000 acres was already available with the agricultural university campus, the govt only had to acquire a few acres for the access path to it.

I doubt any govt, be it WB or Guj can afford to buy 1000 acres land at 1250 crores of public money and give it for free to the Tatas when other public development projects like roads, railways and power are suffering from lack of resources.

[bart]

It is sad that the Singur blame goes to Mamta, when it is the communists who should be blamed. Had they been not greedy and stuck with the poor whose land they were acquiring (like giving them the market price of the land and then providing them with alternate source of income - with Tata or without), this project would have succeeded. No, it is not Mamta, she stood by people whose land were taken forcibly, it is easy for us to judge that it was in greater good and people should make sacrifices yada yada - when it is not you who is making that sacrifice!!

Hope people of Bengal have the sagacity to see this truth and do not end up once again worshipping a false God

Thanks,
fanne

Choosing between Mamta and CPI-M is like choosing between Mayawati and Mulayam. Mamta seems to be just as Left-wing proletarian as the CPI-M is.

Let them trade blame as they all go down the tubes together.

Meanwhile, Gujarat's can-do attitude will vault them ahead of the pack.

From what I gather, Mamta might not be so left wing but once they got a sniff of her 'agitation' a whole bunch of troublemakers, pseudo-environmentalists, NGOs and Naxals got involved and actually used her momentum and hijacked it to make their own agendas. Some of these guys openly admitted they are Naxals or ex-Naxals, and on NDTV they were asked where their funding came from and they just avoided the answer. There was also an IE or HT article detailing the various vested interest groups that appeared from nowhere to create problems.

[Rahul M]

.................
Well, what I'd like to see now is for Karnataka and Uttarkhand (BJP states) get some of the satellite plants. Wouldnt mind seeing Orissa grab something out od this also, it's a good HIndu state!

what asinine logic !
if the next orissa govt is non-BJP it will become a non-hindu state(whatever that means) overnight ?
pure BS.

[fanne]

What really beats me is that a communist government which by defination should take care of the poor was willing to rob the poor to pay the rich!!
If they just have been forthright and honest and gave people what the market price was, plus some incentive like job in the Nano factory (depending on skill level) for 1 member of a family (which if I remember was on the table), I dobt Mamta/farmers had an issue.
Thanks,
fanne

[Rahul M]

if you ask me TMC shouldn't have pushed matters so far after 60-70% work was done.

that being said, this project is marred by the incompetence of the WB GOVT from the start.

for example, they selected a land that gives 4 crops a year !
WTH I say, if we use up the most fertile of your lands in this way we would stare at serious food crises in a decade !

couldn't they have used this project to develop some of the underdeveloped regions of bengal ?
there are places which are underdeveloped and yet have good road connectivity and water supply, which was the demand of tata.

[Sanjay M]

.................
Well, what I'd like to see now is for Karnataka and Uttarkhand (BJP states) get some of the satellite plants. Wouldnt mind seeing Orissa grab something out od this also, it's a good HIndu state!

what asinine logic !
if the next orissa govt is non-BJP it will become a non-hindu state(whatever that means) overnight ?
pure BS.

Some states have better characteristics than others, when it comes to supporting nationalism and opposing leftism.

Gujarat, Rajasthan, Uttarkhand, Karnataka, etc.

Non-BJP states should be split into smaller pieces, so that we can liberate some pro-BJP areas from Leftist clutches. Uttar Pradesh is a prime example of a state which needs to be broken up further. That will keep the Mayawatis and Mulayams in check.

[Rahul M]

enough of this discussion here. I'll reply in nukkad may be ?

[rachel]

OT.
please post in a more relevant thread.

[Mathew G]

.

[Rahul M]

matthew g, why continue in the same vein ?

[Mathew G]

matthew g, why continue in the same vein ?

depends on which way you look at it. It was my very first post in this whole thread and that too asking to stay on topic. Anyway I am deleting the previous post.

[Rahul M]

if you haven't noticed I've already done that once and also edited one OT post.
repetition only adds clutter. please understand it's nothing personal against you.
regards.

[Mathew G]

Some of the posts do get personal, Rahul.

And instead of burying this, you keep reviving it. But thanks for your assistance anyway as the moderator of this fine thread.

[SaraLax]

BMW has an assembly plant in Chennai's Mahindra World City built with an initial investment of around 30 million $. An article on the work at this plant.

One day in the life of .... BMW plant

.
.
.
The engine now stands in readiness; the key is inserted into its slot. And, then it happens. The air is filled with a symphony of sounds — a new BMW is born!

Every working day, the mechanics get to hear the sound of a newborn BMW 12 times. But, it still has to undergo a number of tests in the finish line before its body can be affixed the ultimate accreditation –— the BMW logo. Of these tests is the one I’ve been waiting to do all afternoon — the test drive.

I get my chance. I am introduced to T.D. Arun Prasad, electronics manager, who shows me how over 700 functions within the car can be controlled through one simple circular console. For now, though, I only need the accelerator. Ah, the rush it gives! As we return, I meet Ravi Shankar, who I’m told, test drives these cars for a living. Do such jobs really exist?

It’s 5.20 p.m. now, and the bell rings again; it’s time to head home. I meet a few employees and there is a unanimous feeling of satisfaction and pride. The word ‘dream job’ is something I hear more than just once.
.
.
.

[Rahul M]

matthew g, you have registered with a free email ID in violation of forum guidelines.
your account is therefore being suspended.
you can reactivate that account with a paid/office provided email ID.

[ArmenT]

Every working day, the mechanics get to hear the sound of a newborn BMW 12 times. But, it still has to undergo a number of tests in the finish line before its body can be affixed the ultimate accreditation –— the BMW logo. Of these tests is the one I’ve been waiting to do all afternoon — the test drive.

Is this number correct?? If they only build 12 cars a day, that a pretty small operation (around 3000 cars a year perhaps)

[SaraLax]

Every working day, the mechanics get to hear the sound of a newborn BMW 12 times. But, it still has to undergo a number of tests in the finish line before its body can be affixed the ultimate accreditation –— the BMW logo. Of these tests is the one I’ve been waiting to do all afternoon — the test drive.

Is this number correct?? If they only build 12 cars a day, that a pretty small operation (around 3000 cars a year perhaps)

ArmenT,
Yes...your number is quite near their present yearly production volume. They have started cautiously and in a small way possibly because of the price of their 'entry level car' ... which i believe is safely above 30L Rs.

BMW India in 2008-09
- 200 employees for whole country
- 3000 cars/ year assembled from CKDs in a single shift operation
- less than 10 dealerships nation wide,

The quoted article says

He takes us around the 86,500-sq.ft plant spread over 22 acres. As he begins his tour, he tells us: “It was only two-and-a-half years ago that this land was barren; today we have over 150 people employed, and a fully functional assembly line that produces over 200 of BMW’s 3 and 5 series every month

elsewhere i found BMW India president saying the below

BMW (India), which is a 100 per cent subsidiary of the BMW group, sold 1,387 cars in India in 2007 against its original estimate of 1,000. “An aggressive plan is being implemented for development of a dealer organisation across all metropolitan centres and we aim to sell 2,000 vehicles to our customers in India in 2008, of which 862 have already been delivered till March 2008,” BMW (India) President, Peter Kronschnabl, said after launching a dealership here.
.
.
Referring to the Chennai plant, which was inaugurated in 2007, he said the capacity had recently been increased to 3,000 units from 1,700 units annually on a single-shift basis.

[ashish raval]

The compensation given by WB to the farmers is said to be Rs 10 lakh per acre whereas that given by Gujarat is market price(which as per a guess is Rs 1.25 crore per acre).

I think it is Rs. 50 lakh/acre and not something in crore, it is impossible for government to give that rate. 1.25 Crore is the Market rate now after it was announced that TATA will come and government paid Rs. 50 lakh/acre while asking for land to build roads required to connect it to highway. Having said this Rs. 10 lakh/acre for fertile West Bengal land is indeed an undercompensation, it should be atelast Rs. 50 lakhs or more.

[bart]

http://tatanano.inservices.tatamotors.com/tatamotors/

[Singha]

our minibus sector is populated by antiques based around tempo traveller, tata 407 .... it needs a tech infusion.

toyota has this smart beast of a 14 seater minibus called Commuter sold in various countries

http://www.ananzimotoring.co.za/images/ ... _thumb.jpg

I wonder why they are not entering this segment here?

they also have a older smaller 10 seater minibus.

[bart]

Tata has a Renault-based similar minivan called Winger. Its not luxury but pretty ok for our conditions.

[BhairavP]

Pater-in-law has a Winger for factory staff. Quite comfortable, damn powerful AC>

[gandharva]

Gujarat had it coming. I told you so.

Trouble ahead for Nano in Gujarat?
Joydeep Ray
Friday, October 10, 2008, (Chharodi, Sanand)

After all the problems in West Bengal, Ratan Tata's Nano may just run into trouble in its new home, Gujarat.

A group of 23 Rajput families are demanding compensation for what they say is their land in Sanand. These families lay historical claim to roughly 1000 acres of land that the Gujarat government has given to the Tata plant.(Watch)

They claim to have documents to question the Gujarat government's claims. that it is government land. They say the land was leased by them to the Raj-era government in 1902 for a period of 99 years.

In 1911, the government used the land to build the Anand Agriculture University.

But villagers like Manuba Vaghela claim that though the lease period of 99 years ended in 2001, they never got their land back and say if the land is being handed over to the Tatas, they would want some compensation.

"We just got to know that state government handed over this land to the Tatas. We don't have any objection on it except the fact that we should be compensated for our land," said Manuba Vaghela, villager.

"We are the owners of the land and if we are not properly compensated, we will resort to agitations, satyagraha," said Manuba Vaghela, villager.

But the government says that since the lease expired in 2001, and the lease contract was not renewed, the land is now owned by government, and so there is no obstacle to hand it over to Tata Motors.

Nor do they need to pay compensation The Gujarat Chief Minister says there will be no Singur in Gujarat.

"People in Gujarat have a big heart. If you go through the newspapers of the last three days, you can figure out how happy the farmers in Sanand are," said Narendra Modi, Chief Minister, Gujarat.

Government and Tata sources say the villagers have raised objections only because of the Nano announcement. But the villagers say they have been in the court of city principal judge, Ahmedabad over the ownership of the land, since 2006.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/st ... 51:00%20PM

Gujarat Cong to protest over 'secret' Nano deal

Vadodara: The Gujarat Congress on Friday threatened to launch a state-wide agitation if the Modi government did not make public its 'secret' deal with Tata Motors for their low-cost Nano car project.


Alleging that the auto giant had been provided 1100 acres of most precious land close to Ahmedabad at a throwaway price, state Congress spokesman Arjun Modhwadia demanded immediate release of the MoU signed between the state government and Tata Motors, which was not being made public 'deliberately.''


''Congress is not opposed to the relocation of the Nano project from Singur in West Bengal to Sanand in Gujarat, but we will not allow the Modi government to give away such precious land worth over Rs 1000 crore at a throwaway price of Rs 100 crores,'' Modhwadia said at a press conferece in Vadodra.


Lambasting Chief Minister Narendra Modi for allegedly trying to take all credit for bringing Nano to Gujarat, the Congress spokesman alleged that ''it's nothing but sale out of Gujarat's interest as the people of the state are not going to benefit from this project except the Tatas".


"This was because Ratan Tata had assured to absorb all the Singur vendors and people those assured employment there at its Sanand project which would create only 4,000 jobs," he added.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/gujarat-con ... om=rssfeed

[Sanjay M]

Bah, what can these voices in the wilderness do? Stage more dharnas?
The land was already in the govt's possession, and these Rajput families are only making their claims now that they see big business is involved.

Congress-wallahs are only going to make themselves into another Mamata.

It once again highlights the difference between the business-friendliness of the BJP and the opportunism of the other parties.

[ramana]

Is that area a INC stronghold. I think they were abetted by INC types? Were they that powerful to give land on lease to govt?

[sanjaykumar]

Sigh. how is India's barge technology? Build 'em offshore.

[Sanjay M]

Now, Nano faces farmers' roadblock in Gujarat

October 11, 2008 00:34 IST

The land acquisition row seems to chasing the Tata's Nano car project even out of Singur as farmers of villages near Sanand, the project's new address, have staked claim on the plot.

A group of farmers from Khoda and Bod villages near Chhordi, where the Nano project is proposed to come up, has demanded compensation for the land. The farmers claimed the land of Anand Agriculture University, (AAU) given to the Tatas, belongs to their forefathers.

They said the land was given on lease in 1911, which had come under the management of AAU, for 99 years.

"The land which has been allotted for the Nano project belongs to our forefathers who had given it on lease for cattle farm. Later, the farm became part of the AAU who managed it," one of the farmers, who has staked claim on the land, Mukeshsinh Waghela, said.

"We are the legal heir of this land and have claimed compensation for the land of our forefathers. We have made representation to the district officials regarding this. But they say we have no right over the land," he said.

According to Waghela and other members, the entire 2,200-acre land of the AAU belongs to their forefathers.

District officials said the claims made by farmers were baseless as the land was acquired by Britishers in 1911 and has been in government's possession since then.

"The farmers cannot claim their right over the land as the land has been with the government for the last hundred years. We have all the documents to prove it," district collector Harit Shukla said.

[Neshant]

What are the prospects of India or China buying General Motors?

It looks like the company is burning through its cash at a rapid pace and will soon be bankrupt.