India-Australia News and Discussion

munna · Post by **munna** » 03 Jun 2009 20:49

^^
As long as a person has legal residency and obeys laws I care two hoots about what someone feels or does not feels! I deserve to there because I made it and not some munificence of a gora get it plain and simple.Whether a resident has a right to be somewhere is for the law to decide and not some wishy washy "whether this yindoo will eat beef to show that he is one of us" kind of test, these tests do not cut it in a democratic world and if that is what the Aussies want to do then surely enough lesser people will turn at their shores and not to say lesser money from running those fake degree houses.
Masand I asked you one question and that is can your self loathing ligrated elite gripes explain away dead sons? Please answer that and also, can your digging up of murky world of human trafficking which is a big business stream for Gora mafias and corrupt immigration officials of West justify killing someone who is brown and Indian? Do you think that because some Indians are landing there for phony but legally tenable degrees in dubious colleges justifies killing only sons/daughters or murders?
By mentioning more and more gripes but no solid answer to my question you are merely stereo typing your compatriots and idirectly inciting violence and murder against them and I hope you underestand that!

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 03 Jun 2009 21:18

munna wrote:^^
As long as a person has legal residency and obeys laws I care two hoots about what someone feels or does not feels! I deserve to there because I made it and not some munificence of a gora get it plain and simple.Whether a resident has a right to be somewhere is for the law to decide and not some wishy washy "whether this yindoo will eat beef to show that he is one of us" kind of test, these tests do not cut it in a democratic world and if that is what the Aussies want to do then surely enough lesser people will turn at their shores and not to say lesser money from running those fake degree houses.

Unfortunately indians are ready to pay for these degrees in the fake degree houses in the hope of a better life outside motherland...so lets kick these agents operating from baroda and chandigarh for glorifying life in Ozland..lets stop this deceiving,similar to the chinese kids who are deicived by their own for purposes of cash in hand jobs and poor living conditions...they have no where to go as their media wont report it.

munna wrote: Masand I asked you one question and that is can your self loathing ligrated elite gripes explains away dead sons? Please answer that and also, can your digging up of murky world of human trafficking which is a big business strem for Gora mafias and corrupt immigration officials of West justify killing someone who is brown and Indian? Do you think that because some Indians are landing there for phony but legally tenable degrees in dubious colleges justifies killing only sons/daughters of murders?

By mentioning more and more gripes but no solid answer to my question you are merely stereo typing your compatriots and idirectly inciting violence and murder against them and I hope you underestand that!

Dont send them to Oz.....no one is holding a knife on ur throat and telling u to send ur kids there...!

the dead are the ones driving cabs...dangerous profession anyway....u have a choice,tommorow if someone gets stabbed in an office u will say get cops at office blocks too? Its not human trafficking its money milking...u get the the cow and get all the milk(cash in form of fees and tax) out and send it back or give it a PR and let it be a bail-gadi(cab driver or security dude).So once again criticize the education dept and their foreign policy.

Get back at Vayalar Ravi...been 3 years since this was initially reported in the media...why is he acknowledging these concerns now? http://www.hindu.com/2006/10/27/stories ... 511500.htm

munna · Post by **munna** » 03 Jun 2009 21:37

Why do you think Oz government is making all kinds of noises if no one wants those guys there?

People have stoppped withdrawal of sponsorship to their kids bound for Oz and I personally have witnessed two cases where tickets were cancelled and visa pages ripped from passport.
You still have not answered, do all of your gripes justify murder of Indians on the basis of race? If yes then you are playing with fire by indulging in stereotyping exercise that will result in grevious or bodily harm to a community or a culture or people belonging to it. Inciting and justifying hate/race crimes is not a way to win arguments. Till now you have not given me one reason to believe that either the crimes against Indians were ordinary ones or were perpetrated under some mitigating circumstances or were unplanned acts of mischief. Instead of giving cogent reasons you somehow are coming out as saying:
1) Indians are not allowed to act and live in accordance with their culture and anything less than that is invitation for punishment.
2) Indians do not have the right to use their language as it threatens some unwashed mofos.
3) Indians should not come to Oz because they are poor, they are no culture and their nation is corrupt.
4) If Indians do not mend there ways they shall be rebuked and chastized by the white masters.
Masand sahib have you ever heard of Jews in Nazi Germany! Going by your Lahori logic they were freer citizens in Germany then than Indians are in Oz of today (no language, no religion, no culture and next will be wear a yellow badge).

Hmm sir this is blatant stereo typing and incitement to hate. Please stop from inciting violence and hate against Indians on a public fora.

ravit · Post by **ravit** » 03 Jun 2009 21:40

mmasand wrote: that no furore has been created to genuine acts of apartheid in the gulf where thousands of indian workers are subject to discrimination officially by law!A consulate the size of a canteen is serving 1.4 million Indians in the UAE....wehre is the foreign minisrty then....oh i forgot...that all the babus have their black money stashed there in real estate and hotels and prostitution!

So. What's the point? Is UAE new metric for immigration policies to look at? Immigrants to Arab are not students. Problem here in Australia is of students who pay for education. Don't get irrelevant points into discussion to score a self-goal.

OT: Two of my friends were offered jobs ~3 times to the pay that they get here and they refused.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 03 Jun 2009 21:52

Going by the same logic of respecting their culture n tradition

..all aussies coming to India
should be asked to do proper charan sparsh to all elders they see here...otherwise we can also
be embarrased by their behaviour in public places...

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 03 Jun 2009 22:05

Mmasand you really give an insight into why everyone walks over India and Indians and treats them like dirt. While we discuss ad infitium about Indian and why it is being screwed, we need some one like you to remind us why Indians deserve to be treated like filth every where. Kudos.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 04 Jun 2009 00:40

if any of u can come out with a constructive and practical solution do so...but it aint gonna change the facts out there!
I never have and never will defend the argument that 'aussies are not racist'.But if you cannot expect anything from the Oz govt then why keep harpooning on them....just get ourselves to fix the problem...some ppl have stupid ideas of carrying khukris and swords with them...wtf?

If you are really that concerned then write a letter to the High Commissioner....28 Indies were in detention last year...where were you guys then?
Where are you when bogus agents in india are robbing prospective students and charging them thousands of rupees in consultation when IDP does everything for free? Where are you when there is unethical marketing by colleges like CQU : "Suggest this institution to friends or family and win a laptop"

Where are you when others are also being killedhttp://www.nlc.edu.au/media_release2009 ... ?newsID=84....are you now saying that all whites are racist and u should kill them all...grow up u sound like a 5 year old mullah.

If you can't address the problem lease take ur posts away to whinge blog...not here...we are trying to come with a solution and a remedy for these attatks not ur gora bashing!

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 04 Jun 2009 00:49

mmasand responses indicate why are Indians such a pushovers .This self guilt and inward looking mentality is probably the biggest reason why Indians dont see the serious threats facing them.Remember after the mumbai attacks, the urban students of mumbai took protest marches NOT against pakistan but against Indian politicians as if even if our politicians are all honest and did their jobs perfectly, then pakistan would not have attached us.This inward looking mentality which assumes that if we are all good then the rest of the world will also be all good to us screwed us big time through out our history.Still Indians dont realise it.When an kangaroo discriminates against Indians and the Indians rightly makes an issue of it, then these self guilt Indians comes in and does equal-equal by bringing in all pherepheral issues with the result being the real issue of kangaroo racism gets buried down and the kangaroos gets a reason of not doing anything.Then the issue dies down and the self guilt Indians melt away only to re appear when the kangaroo racism re surfaces again and the Indians protest against it again.

munna · Post by **munna** » 04 Jun 2009 00:56

Mmasand
The practical solution to the above problem is not racial stereotyping and incitement to violence and discrimination. The solution is for the police to round up the scoundrels and the Aussies to admit that they have a race problem and leave the behaviour of blaming anyone but themselves. People do travel and immigrate amongst developed countries too and for even as trivial reasons as Oz being sunnier than UK. So kindly dump your sanctimonious race stereotypical diatribes on migrating Italians, British and Poles too. Just because some migrants are white does not give them a divine right or vice versa. You still have not answered as to on what basis are you justifying the perpetrators and faulting the very victims of a terror campaign. Your argument is just like saying that a girl got raped because the poor thing was wearing inappropriate clothes. Sorry Sahib poor Indians do not understand neither your Lahori logic nor the vehemence to blame anything brown but defending the safed masters to death even when they are clearly at fault.
Whenever brought to notice we shall fight for all Indians here or abroad and we will not let any body arrogate to themselves the divine right to decide what Indians should or should not do. If they come for two bit degrees its their free wish but killing them because they came for it and then you justifying the Nazi terror is way beyond comprehension!

PS: Rony Indians are no psuhovers but its a variety of Brown Sahibs that wants to be loyal than the king who think that their bideshi passport gives them a right to dump whatever sanctimonious non-sense on fellow Indians instead of fighting the discrimination.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 04 Jun 2009 01:18

mmasand wrote: If you can't address the problem lease take ur posts away to whinge blog...not here...we are trying to come with a solution and a remedy for these attatks not ur gora bashing!

Masand saab, the solution you're 'trying' to come up with is not a solution, it's what we call GUBOing. Heck, your solution is the same as that proposed by the gora racists -

a. Dont speak your mother tongue;
b. Dont block elevators;
c. Dont ogle at wimmens;
d. If a pious Aussie abuses & kicks you, be pleased & thank him for the halal act.

Good, now we just need to send this solution over to the Indians in Ozland.

This racism saga has brought many WAKs (Replace Wagah with White & A with you know what) out in the open, in the media, in the blogs & elsewhere. Indians themselves asking Indians "let's look underneath our own collar first, caste, racial abuse of the africans, dalits, blah blah". This holier than thou attitude is the biggest shame to India & Indians. Keep kicking us, keep abusing us, gora sahib, this is what we back home too, so please continue..

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 04 Jun 2009 01:19

munna wrote:Mmasand
The practical solution to the above problem is not racial stereotyping and incitement to violence and discrimination. The solution is for the police to round up the scoundrels and the Aussies to admit that they have a race problem and leave the behaviour of blaming anyone but themselves. People do travel and immigrate amongst developed countries too and for even as trivial reasons as Oz being sunnier than UK. So kindly dump your sanctimonious race stereotypical diatribes on migrating Italians, British and Poles too. Just because some migrants are white does not give them a divine right or vice versa.

U cant really expect anything from vicpol...they disbanded their Asian(south east asia) squad in '06 citing budget reasons,instead they bought about a multi cultural community dept which cannot alone do the job.We have to moot for a more culturally educated and proper equipped squad to deal with these crimes alone.But we have to lobby with Vic Govt to release funds to them bcoz they are severely underfunded as corruption is still rampant.http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 01,00.html

munna wrote: You still have not answered as to on what basis are you justifying the perpetrators and faulting the very victims of a terror campaign. Your argument is just like saying that a girl got raped because the poor thing was wearing inappropriate clothes. Sorry Sahib poor Indians do not understand neither your Lahori logic nor the vehemence to blame anything brown but defending the safed masters to death even when they are clearly at fault.

I am not going to justify bcoz i do agree there is a racist element,I cannot deny that,but what do you define as racist - "i dont like your skin color so i stab you"....its bcoz they are jealous of us,they have a picture that india is full of snakes and slums and still we take their jobs away bcozz we are smarter than them ,scare them is the tactic.So i am saying that try to integrate so they dont feel that way,let them know u can be a part of them<i mean we are smarter than them right so it doesnt hurt to befriend them.

munna wrote:Whenever brought to notice we shall fight for all Indians here or abroad and we will not let any body arrogate to themselves the divine right to decide what Indians should or should not do. If they come for two bit degrees its their free wish but killing them because they came for it and then you justifying the Nazi terror is way beyond comprehension!

Good...fight for it...but dont make our reputation worse by saying let them come and take it....u need to have a sense of right and wrong.tomorrow u will say keeping black money is ok...since there is a loophole.can u justify their actions now?

munna · Post by **munna** » 04 Jun 2009 01:46

mmasand wrote:
U cant really expect anything from vicpol...they disbanded their Asian(south east asia) squad in '06 citing budget reasons,instead they bought about a multi cultural community dept which cannot alone do the job.We have to moot for a more culturally educated and proper equipped squad to deal with these crimes alone.But we have to lobby with Vic Govt to release funds to them bcoz they are severely underfunded as corruption is still rampant.http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 01,00.html

Finally we have some movement in the right direction. The thing is being honest and taking the crimes for what they are is far better than saying that some desi talking in Hindi is a walking target for race attack. All lacunae in the police force can be understood and sympathized with but some people have to get off the high horse first and talk as equals to us and not talk down on us.

mmasand wrote: I am not going to justify bcoz i do agree there is a racist element,I cannot deny that,but what do you define as racist - "i dont like your skin color so i stab you"....its bcoz they are jealous of us,they have a picture that india is full of snakes and slums and still we take their jobs away bcozz we are smarter than them ,scare them is the tactic.So i am saying that try to integrate so they dont feel that way,let them know u can be a part of them<i mean we are smarter than them right so it doesnt hurt to befriend them.

Befriending the native ozzies is not unwanted or taboo in fact it is a smart thing to do but if a foreign accent or language can make you liable for attacks then I am afraid the said place seems to be paranoid and Xenophobic. Going out for Beeyah and cracking jokes is all fine and dandy but it should not be reduced to boot licking. There is a difference and fine line between befriending and kowtowing.

mmasand wrote: Good...fight for it...but dont make our reputation worse by saying let them come and take it....u need to have a sense of right and wrong.tomorrow u will say keeping black money is ok...since there is a loophole.can u justify their actions now?

In legal parlance there are two terms Tax evasion and Tax Avoidance. Tax Evasion is false declaration of income to pay lower taxes or none at all and is the root cause of Black money and is illegal in the eyes of law hence I can never ever condone that. Tax avoidance is declaring true income but paying lower taxes by using some legal loophole although norally there might be some issues with such an act but legally this act is tenable and ok. Therefore as long as you don't run foul of the law care two hoots about feelings or empty moralizing! Go make money son and daughters of India.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 04 Jun 2009 02:23

my point munna is none of the authorities are willing to listen in the first place...what do you do,i mean the oz govt is at harm coz eventually their close to 2nd largest export industry will collapse,Chinese never really faced a lot of this apart from this sole incident at RMIT which was lushed down by the chinese embassy.The chinese kids who traveled to canberra to pelt stones during the tibet agitation by exiled tibetans were never arrested.Much ado was due to the Chinese embassy's assertion.Why can't we ? Its not as if the MEA doesnt know about all this!

But if they can't protect us then i guess we have to mend our ways..

BTW this is an article on the Minister of immigration accepting the screw up http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/min ... 53384.html

Keshav · Post by **Keshav** » 04 Jun 2009 02:39

mmasand wrote:that no furore has been created to genuine acts of apartheid in the gulf where thousands of indian workers are subject to discrimination officially by law!A consulate the size of a canteen is serving 1.4 million Indians in the UAE....wehre is the foreign minisrty then....oh i forgot...that all the babus have their black money stashed there in real estate and hotels and prostitution!

We've already had this discussion. We were already outraged and we already understand the terrible treatment of migrant workers in the UAE. Many members on this forum even pointed out that much of the exploitation is allowed by Indian firms and what not. We're not stupid.

You cannot defend racism, my friend. Should they defend themselves? Sure. But sitting back and accepting it. What you're essentially saying is that we should blame the women who walk around Delhi at 2am and get raped rather than the scum who perpetrated the act!

Bullshit.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 04 Jun 2009 05:48

Chandragupta wrote:
mmasand wrote: If you can't address the problem lease take ur posts away to whinge blog...not here...we are trying to come with a solution and a remedy for these attatks not ur gora bashing!
Masand saab, the solution you're 'trying' to come up with is not a solution, it's what we call GUBOing. Heck, your solution is the same as that proposed by the gora racists -

a. Dont speak your mother tongue;
b. Dont block elevators;
c. Dont ogle at wimmens;
d. If a pious Aussie abuses & kicks you, be pleased & thank him for the halal act.

Good, now we just need to send this solution over to the Indians in Ozland.

This racism saga has brought many WAKs (Replace Wagah with White & A with you know what) out in the open, in the media, in the blogs & elsewhere. Indians themselves asking Indians "let's look underneath our own collar first, caste, racial abuse of the africans, dalits, blah blah". This holier than thou attitude is the biggest shame to India & Indians. Keep kicking us, keep abusing us, gora sahib, this is what we back home too, so please continue..

Exactly, these are kind of solutions that pakis are famous for coming up with. Like if terrorist are fighting to take over swat then simply make a 'peace' deal and handover swat. Now, that swat is given, what excuse do they have for fighting, they reason. Similarly, some desis say, just GUBO to white master(even third-rated one like aussie), now that we GUBO, what reason do they have to 'attack' us. But if you notice what Aussie posters on net, their politicians and cops are saying, you would see that this would invite more and more attacks and more demands for further GUBO.
Aussies are saying that Indians are attacked becoz they are seen as 'soft' targets. So, the solution is to recreate a new image where Indians are not seen as soft targets by Oz 'masters'. There are different ways to do that, diplomatic pressure, protest(a good way to show that they have the numbers), tit-for-tat attacks, or some form physical defence when they are attacked.
Of course, this line of thinking will fought tooth and nail by those who are already accustomed to GUBOing to everyone(not just gora sahibs). They will continue come up with all kinds of silly counters to this kind of 'aggressive and extremist' thinking.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 04 Jun 2009 09:17

Labor party sources say that AEI honcho Fiona Buffington's job is on the line and members of ACPET want Russell Welch and Mark Lucas out as they did not even discuss any relevant items on their agendas at the committee....we could see a complete overhaul of AEI and the regulation framework nationally to replace the liberals 'free for all' system.

Golden question will CRICOS registration finally be a corrupt and centralised procedure?Will there be a code of conduct for private providers? Will ESOS inspections be carried out by independent auditors rather than cross inspecting state wise or relying on ACPET bullshit!

The name doing the rounds for an International student ombudsman nationally is none other than Aristotle Paipetis,the lone lawyer fighting the cause of international students in Oz.The Chinese will be furious at this....

munna · Post by **munna** » 04 Jun 2009 09:22

mmasand wrote:Labor party sources say that AEI honcho Fiona Buffington's job is on the line and members of ACPET want Russell Welch and Mark Lucas out as they did not even discuss any relevant items on their agendas at the committee....we could see a complete overhaul of AEI and the regulation framework nationally to replace the liberals 'free for all' system.

Golden question will CRICOS registration finally be a corrupt and centralised procedure?Will there be a code of conduct for private providers? Will ESOS inspections be carried out by independent auditors rather than cross inspecting state wise or relying on ACPET bullshit!

The name doing the rounds for an International student ombudsman nationally is none other than Aristotle Paipetis,the lone lawyer fighting the cause of international students in Oz.The Chinese will be furious at this....

Masandji they are also guilty who suffer in silence! I understand your predicament and fully sympathize with you over our governmental nonchalance but as you can see raising voice and using the law to advantage can yield meaningful results. We will talk in Hindi and yet not be subjected to racist attacks. Have your cake and eat it too, go for it bharatvanshi. Best of luck!!

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 04 Jun 2009 11:10

Masand wrote

If you dont give a damn of what their customs or respect them are then u dont deserve it, how can they reciprocate if u dont contribute

Well me being a die hard revisionist, communalist as per the sickular crowd of this country , graham staines was not giving a damn about our culture ,religion and country so is the action against him justified?
I do not condone graham staine's killing , but what i find extremely hypocritical is the argument " grahams staines was saint and we are barbarians and our people there are boorish(in their view) and so attacking and almost killing them is justified"

disha · Post by **disha** » 04 Jun 2009 12:27

mmasand wrote:Labor party sources say that AEI honcho Fiona Buffington's job is on the line and members of ACPET want Russell Welch and Mark Lucas out as they did not even discuss any relevant items on their agendas at the committee....we could see a complete overhaul of AEI and the regulation framework nationally to replace the liberals 'free for all' system.

Golden question will CRICOS registration finally be a corrupt and centralised procedure?Will there be a code of conduct for private providers? Will ESOS inspections be carried out by independent auditors rather than cross inspecting state wise or relying on ACPET bullshit!

The name doing the rounds for an International student ombudsman nationally is none other than Aristotle Paipetis,the lone lawyer fighting the cause of international students in Oz.The Chinese will be furious at this....

mmasand, you do have my sympathies. Australian government and particularly state government in Victoria took a shortcut to earn money via education, forgetting the fact that education means immigration and immigration means that the host society is prepared to protect the guests. Australian government failed in its duty not only to the immigrants but to its own people and has been found wanting. Australian government (John Howard, Pauline Hanson, Kevin Rudd) is the product of the Australian Society and culture and thus Australian culture has also been found wanting. Australian media has been tried and it failed.

Also by letting this shopfront universities thrive, genuine universities have also suffered. It remains to be seen if Australia wants to be a nation of plumbers and hair dressers or a nation of engineers?

I am glad that it is understood by all that as long as the immigrants abide by the law they need to be protected and any stereotyping of the immigrants is justifying attacks and is racist.

Australia needs to take a leaf from US and let their universities be ranked at the very least by seemingly independent authorities and do tighten around the visa requirements on those universities. Further Australia as a society should open up to geeks. The lowly software engineer, the doctor, the nurse, the business person and the merchants and not just to mechanics and plumbers and hair dressers etc. For this to happen, Australia has to craft a multi-cultural society and make the immigrants feel that they are Australians and then build on it.

Australian society is not open and that is the problem. US with all its flaws has been able to create a multi-cultural society. India with all its flaws *is* a multi-cultural society. UK has a flawed multi-cultural society and its anxieties are amplified in Australia. There are few growing and great multi-cultural societies (India, US) and Australia is not among them. Australia is right there with China, only the modus-operandi of oppression is far more civilized and further Australia has hope.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 04 Jun 2009 12:29

China joins calls for student protection

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 Jun 2009 12:35

disha wrote: Australian government failed in its duty not only to the immigrants but to its own people and has been found wanting. Australian government (John Howard, Pauline Hanson, Kevin Rudd) is the product of the Australian Society and culture and thus Australian culture has also been found wanting. Australian media has been tried and it failed.

Exceptional post Disha.

I just have one complain -- the education that Australia offers is much like Opium being provided to China by the EIC under the banner of free trade, or like the cheap trinkets that the whites gave in exchange for land to Native Americans.

I think they (Ozzies) know this and hence use force (both omission and commission of force, like in the previous examples) to keep it going. The real pity is that Indians are getting fooled.

bart · Post by **bart** » 04 Jun 2009 17:11

All you apologists for Australia and those claiming that the incidents are not racist, and Indians need to do better and the Aussies are doing their best etc, here is an article for you to read:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 17,00.html

Shocking that the mainstream media of any country would publish such racist trip. It reads like a sugar coated version of a post you might find on stormfront.

The only other country where you could find such crap is probably TSP.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Jun 2009 19:14

I am a big believer in the power of fitness and in martial arts. I sometimes wonder why we Indians are so squeamish about acknowledging that violence is also part and parcel of this world, and education and being civil are not sufficient human qualities to take one to progress.

For students in foreign countries, where Indians cease to be Gujaratis and Tamils and Punjabis, when they start getting bashed by foreign gangs for reasons of racism, bullying, intimidation, ethnic cleansing, theft or whatever reason, it is important that these students are prepared to deal with the 'world', and the Indian State can play a part. In case we want to institutionalize this 'security', some suggestions would be:

a) GoI subsidizes an Indian students registration at some fitness club and/or some martial arts club.
b) GoI subsidizes an Indian students accommodation in a more secure locality, paying the difference in costs for such an accommodation in a more run-down locality.
c) GoI appoints a point-man in the Embassy/Consulate/High Commission, who is responsible for keeping an overview of the security and safety situation for Indian citizens, NRIs, POIs, etc., someone who would meet with local authorities on a weekly basis and go through with them on Indians concerns.
d) GoI Embassies need to support local Indian organizations including student organizations, who take upon the responsibility of counseling new arrivals, with regard to security and other issues.
e) Indian Student and other organizations should try to impress upon the Indian students that besides being and keeping themselves physically fit, moderately armed, somewhat trained in martial arts, they should also consider moving around in somewhat larger groups. After work and through coordination, it is also possible that a friend with a car can go around town picking up those who work later hours.
f) Indian students also need to become far more extrovert, get to know, mingle and become friends with locals and other foreigners; to go out and play more outdoor sports including team sports. This helps getting physically fit, but also enlarges one's security network.

Just my two cents. Do not wish to sound condescending or preachy!

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 04 Jun 2009 20:01

GoI can't be a babysitter. Compulsory military training is a better tool.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 04 Jun 2009 20:02

Shocking that the mainstream media of any country would publish such racist trip. It reads like a sugar coated version of a post you might find on stormfront.

Bart, you must for objectivity tell why this article is racist. He's opposing the fact that their is institutional racism in Oz. I agree. It is not promotiong Institutional racism. He is agreeing that there are youngsters who are racist and questioning how come they came about. Fair enough. He is also questioning the fact why people are not talking about minorities that are indulging in mugging and stuff. This is exactly what i mentioned in an earlier post, that violence in their society irrespective of who is conducting it against Indians must be addresed. It's not white trash alone. And yes the train video mugging was a multinational thing. There were islanders involved. In our analysis, lets at the minimum be fair. Lets not dismiss things with evidently displayable 'white trash' kind of comments.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 04 Jun 2009 20:28

Cricketers will re-establish the goodwill: Australian Senate
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 041731.htm

Question to the Hon. Senatorji: How about your lowly-ranked tennis players stop lying on their blogs and visit India for Davis Cup matches, learning geography unlike your stupid cousins in Amrika, and not chickening out crying "terrorism" at the mere mention of the word India when they could play the week after in Wimbledon following the July 7 blasts in the London metro? This, despite being offered high-class security, which even the official security agency of ATP found to be great. How about them learning to accept defeat if it is imminent instead of chickening out of competition, oh ye glorious sportsmen-like conduct-practitioners of that supposedly glorious sports-friendly nation? How about your Tennis Oz officials who cite the precedent of having won 28+ Davis Cups as a ruse to escape from the just punishments of the ATP? How about your hockey officials who even in this last minute are trying to act un-ethical and completely un-sportsman-like (should I make that sports-mate-like) by trying to pull the rug from underneath the Indian legs of hosting rights for World cup 2010? How about the perfidy of Perry Crosswhite and your Australian Olympic Association that tries the same stunt vis-a-vis India in the hosting of Commonwealth Games 2010?

There is something called a two-way street in sports and economics. We may show the other cheek now, but when we get back at you like we do in cricket, we will firmly and surely put you Australians in the right place. And thats an eerie warning shot. Every dawg has a day, and your days are being counted, Shri senatorji. We may not have a Indophile as PM of your country, but we will twist your arms with money-power very soon.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 Jun 2009 20:47

>>The gates opened with maaki, and will remain open till we are treated equally.
That was one huge (and probably only) reason why I tracked the last India-Australia cricket series. I do not follow cricket anymore; but whatever one might say about Harbajan, Sreesanth & others in that tour; that was truly a ground breaking. If Gavasakar performed Satyagraha in 1981 (Adelaide ?) - version 1.0; this was truly version 3.0. I thought we owned them outside the matches and equaled them in the matches. Full paisa vasool for fans and jingoes.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 Jun 2009 21:09

disha wrote: US with all its flaws has been able to create a multi-cultural society. India with all its flaws *is* a multi-cultural society. UK has a flawed multi-cultural society and its anxieties are amplified in Australia. There are few growing and great multi-cultural societies (India, US) and Australia is not among them. Australia is right there with China, only the modus-operandi of oppression is far more civilized and further Australia has hope.

Those words have to be carved on all gates leading in and out of Bharat.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 05 Jun 2009 17:19

Australia website calls for racial war, triggers tension
5 Jun 2009

NEW DELHI: A post on an Australian website urging a “hate offensive” against Indians has sparked fears that racial tensions may escalate.

O’ Sullivan, who was jailed in 2002 for stabbing a man who accused him of not being a Nazi due to his Irish blood, told the website that the posts were not intended to incite violence and that he was now a peaceful man. He said his rallying call for a hate offensive was a peaceful way to recruit people into the Creativity Movement, whose website describes itself as a Progressive Pro-White Religion.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Jun 2009 19:39

SwamyG wrote:
disha wrote: US with all its flaws has been able to create a multi-cultural society. India with all its flaws *is* a multi-cultural society. UK has a flawed multi-cultural society and its anxieties are amplified in Australia. There are few growing and great multi-cultural societies (India, US) and Australia is not among them. Australia is right there with China, only the modus-operandi of oppression is far more civilized and further Australia has hope.
Those words have to be carved on all gates leading in and out of Bharat.

To me, from a functioning, modern nation state point of view, US is multicultural; in the sense that it has overwhelming white Chrristian nationalist core that upholds supreme national interests, with equal rights for all enshrined in the constituion. The multi-cultural content is at a level, and carefully calibrated through immigration and other policies, that only adds to the strength of the white Christian nationalist core. Never will we see the US senate or Congress so paralysed as the Indian parliament is because the various multi-cultural facets have their own agenda distinct from national interest. Just one example will suffice to highlight this. Obama can give any PR speech he likes in Cairo or wherever, but let him try to agrressively close CIA torture chambers for Jihadi suspects picked from Peshawar, TSP, and elsewhere; and see what his fate will be

.

In contrast, India is a dyusfunctional, hot-potch multi-cultural entity; a country that cannot even agree that Islamic marauders dispatched by TSP are in fact terrorists. What good is a multicultural society if there is no unity of purpose? Other than a "consensus" on tautological observations like sun rises in the east and grass is green, can the different multi-cultural entities that constitute India agree on anything else? Can you name another country where a foreign women is considered Godess by the teeming masses even as they shun one of their own? Is Indian multi-culturalism a virtue, or does India have no choice but to limp along with the myriad multi-cultural constitutens loosly held together, but dysfunctional as each one is played against the other by foreigners?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 05 Jun 2009 21:06

Yet another student assaulted, this guy is studying a course in 'Social welfare'. WTF is this? Does someone need to go all the way there to study such crap courses that don't get any jobs here or there?!

I can understand someone going there to pursue engineering or other studies that are either not available here or equally expensive because someone's marks are low and hence forced to pay donations and higher fees to private colleges in India...to some extent I can also understand the craze for phoren degrees especially by the moneyed elite, though there is nothing to suggest that the output from these universities are any better than good local ones.

We are asking for this. Aa bheel muje maar...and paying for it both in terms of $$$ and also loss of national prestige.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 05 Jun 2009 21:12

Around 93,000 of the 430,000 foreign students in Australia are Indians, up from around 30,000 only a few years ago.

Source: http://in.reuters.com/article/entertain ... 05?sp=true

That is 21.62% of the foreign students. Does anybody know what is the total number of students in Australia and what is the percentage of foreign students?

Truly India, along with China, is supplying man power to this Globe.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Jun 2009 23:37

CRamS wrote:
In contrast, India is a dyusfunctional, hot-potch multi-cultural entity; a country that cannot even agree that Islamic marauders dispatched by TSP are in fact terrorists.

I dont agree with the use of multi-cultural Indian society. Indian society has history of 1000 years or more with interaction with other cultures. So all other cultures dwarf Indian society in terms of evolution.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Jun 2009 02:16

If anything, the one thing that this episode has shown us is this: when we act united, we are strong and people respect/fear us. For once, I applaud the Indian media. They, the foreign policy establishment, the Indian public and the affected students in Oz have spoken with one voice. And the impact on the Oz govt is visible.

We got to keep the pressure up (especially the media) & not go chasing the next red herring.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 06 Jun 2009 02:20

SwamyG wrote:
Around 93,000 of the 430,000 foreign students in Australia are Indians, up from around 30,000 only a few years ago.
Source: http://in.reuters.com/article/entertain ... 05?sp=true

That is 21.62% of the foreign students. Does anybody know what is the total number of students in Australia and what is the percentage of foreign students?

Truly India, along with China, is supplying man power to this Globe.

The latest stats for Indians I have are from end of April;break up as follows:

ELICOS(Eng lang course) : 6782 ( This is for students who dont meet eng lang requirements and have to go thru the bridging course of 3 months) Represents 10% of the ELICOS sector

Schools : 125 ( these are all students enrolled only for school studies and generally move on to university after their VCE year,all the underage kids have appointed guardians)

VET/TAFE : 52,000 (This is the sizable chunk where majority of the Indians are,technical education-which are courses which DON'T give you a degree,but diplomas and advanced dips.Major courses are cookery,social studies,hairdressers,IT courses)Otherwise known as the PR(Residency) factory as 80% of the institutions are NOT UNIVERSITIES as wrongly reported by the media.These are private providers with generally a floor space of 2-3 floors in an existing business block.Not really an international education as very very few locals study here as private education is not covered by Commonwealth assisted scholarships.These students have little or no interaction with locals.This sector saw a 2000% + increase in a period of 6 years to date.

Non award courses : 560 Generally courses which consider of a subject or placement studies such as linguistics or side subjects such as first aid,safe food handling,Liquor licensing,security licensing.

HeD (Higher Ed) : The area which initially attracted students for degrees now stand only at 22,000.When I went there in '05, 18k of 21k students were in this sector.Now TAFE has more then double students pursuing non degree courses.

The issue of safety is probably not paramount issue on the agenda of lobbyists as Oz is generally considered a safe place to stay.Most of these incidents are confined to the western suburbs of melbourne about a distance of 10 kms out of melbourne up to 40kms.Most of these students in the VET/TAFE sector have to do odd jobs(due to lack of skill and language proficiency) till late at night and then travel to their homes where rent is cheap,thus leaving them as a majority on public transport and 'soft targets' since asians have a tendency to deal in cash and stash a lot in their wallets in spite of having a debit card facility.

*What should be given even more attention is the state wide discrimination against international students since 1989 is the withdrawal of travel concessions(50%) to full fee paying international students (only 2% form the non full fee paying students) in the states of VIC and NSW as they were being developed as pioneers for education.http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/05/ ... 14015.html
The argument by the state dept is that we don't pay taxes,but we do,we are taxed on income if we work and pay 5 times as much fees than local students.We pay GST,we don't get taxed on income derived as sponsorship(in form of fees and living expenses) if money is coming from abroad but so don't the locals who get allowances & Centrelink funds from the Fed Govt for living away from home and studying.When challenged in the court of law in NSW,an act was introduced in parliament to avoid compensation after a judgment was made,HOW IS THAT DEMOCRATIC? The Hansard in the NSW parliament cites opposition leaders against the acthttp://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/p ... 0060607048.Even the Federal Education minister went on record to support concessions for students in VIC and NSW.The Dept of Infrastructure threatened to get an act passed on banning overseas students from utlitising the services of the Equal Opportunity Commission(isn't that unequal itself) http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 77593.html.They had the bloody audacity of insulting our lawyers in a meeting once.I can so see them cry when the Libs will come to power which they will one day and change the policy.

Indian Students form 18.6% of the population of International students in Oz at the moment but much are concentrated in VIC(25%) and NSW (12%).Now these aren't the only Indian youth alone there,these are students on sub class 457(student visas).There are about 3000 every year(avg over 4 yrs) who apply for PR,thus another 20k or so and a smaller bunch of citizens.

These private colleges are rarely being monitored for breaches and none i repeat NOT A SINGLE ONE has accommodation provided or even a student organisation(these normally run all services on campus).Its very tough for national student bodies to represent theses students as they are not aware of what happens in this sector.Australia has about 600,000 students of which about 320,000 are informal or part time students.Thus 1 in every 7 students is an Indian student.

Julia Gillard(Deputy PM and Education minister and holds lots of other portfolios) has promised a round table to address grievanceshttp://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 32,00.html and shut down rogue collegeshttp://www.watoday.com.au/national/gill ... -bm3s.html.I wonder what mechanism will she choose to get students on the committees,where will she draw the membership from?Will the membership be equal and representative or just like every other uni board only have 3 out of 20 members as students who are often gagged by the chancellors.

She is ironically the MP from the Lalor (Werribee seat) constituency where a good chunk of these students live and have been attacked,Nicola Roxon,MP from Gellibrand (Footscray area) and Federal health minister herself is scared to walk in the area alone at night after shutting her office(quoted by herself).I can remember how she came ecstatically to my uni campus in the run for the elections garnering votes but she is no where to be seen even in her office even when parliament is not in session. So I wonder what all these ALP hoodlums can do in lieu of making education their third largest export industry.Do i see a division already!

It has only just started.....!

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 06 Jun 2009 02:54

Thats why I support the right to bear arms.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 06 Jun 2009 03:06

Manny wrote:Thats why I support the right to bear arms.

Non residents can't posses arms in Oz,gunlaws are very strict here,many cops too don't carry any firearms here...

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 06 Jun 2009 03:20

mmasand: Thanks for the info. What is the total student population - Australians and Foreigners? And how are the fees paid by the Indians? Do they get it from India, or do they work in Australia to pay for the fees? TIA.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 06 Jun 2009 04:23

Close to 600k (Higher Education) which also includes 200k plus informal or part time students and around 300k in technical education at any given time during summer months,generally called tradies,tradesman have to be formally qualified even if its a plumber or electrician.

Indian Students with the exception of a few hundred are here on full fee programs,now most universities ask you to pay one semester(6 months) in advance which can range anything between ($6000 - $25000) depending on the course and institution.

As an agreement under the visa you are required to have a funding source(a sponsor) or own funds which have to proved(bank statements etc.) to cover you entire cost as you are only limited to working 20 hours in a week by law.But several Indian students work for cash in hand jobs(unrecorded transactions) as their source of funds are doctored in a lot of cases(take a loan from a bank,keep them in ur bank for 6 months and print statements).There are tight laws on academic progress and attendance,else you get deported other than risk having serve some time in a controversial immigration detention centre(like a central jail literally).

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 06 Jun 2009 07:01

AFAIK there is going to be peace rally in Sydney tomorrow. News readers read so. I doubt if they will get full support from Indians in Sydney as many possibly believes the point has been made and no need for making more noise..also again end up with Indian media making more fuss then needed.