PAK-FA Thread - First flight

bodhi · Post by **bodhi** » 02 Feb 2010 23:03

OT - Who came up woth the name Rambha?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Feb 2010 23:09

that (question) would rak-(us)-all! ask him. iirc he did name it rambha. [or in joint ownership with shiv ji and singha]

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 03 Feb 2010 06:53

Cross Post from keypubs

Originally posted by edi_right_round

Expect dr.Kopp analysis on Pak Fa in the future days.Seems he received lot of questions on T-50.One thing for sure,he'll say the Fatboy-35 aint a match for the T-50

02/02/2010 T-50 PAK-FA: APA has received a large number of email queries asking the question: “when will an analysis of the PAK-FA be published?” A Technical Report analysing the PAK-FA is currently in development. The importance of this program is such that APA will not be releasing this TR until the analysis is properly completed, and a robust and thorough report can be produced. Visitors interested in the strategic and operational implications of the PAK-FA might consider reading the following 2009 NOTAMs: When America’s Stealth Monopoly Ends, What's Next? and Air Combat: Russia’s PAK-FA versus the F-22 and F-35; and the 2009 Technical Report update covering the Tikhomirov NIIP PAK-FA AESA radar. All indications at this time are that the conclusions of the two 2009 NOTAMs will firmly hold, although PAK-FA is more capable in many respects than previously expected.

Austin make sure to e-mail Kopp that snippet which contains FAQ on Russian stealth that you cross posted from Keypubs on last page here. I can't wait for his article.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Feb 2010 08:03

Ok here is some information on PAK-FA Engine

Article 117S -----> Powers Su-35BM/Su-35S --> ~ 14.5T Thrust
Article 117 ----> Powers Prototype PAK-FA , ~ 15 T Thrust
AL-41F1 -----> 5th gen Engine under development for production PAK-FA , ~ 17.5T

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Feb 2010 08:26

If that is the power curve for the engine, then we can and should expect substantial changes in the form too.

I would also expect cloaking techniques to be more advanced than we are aware of and certain sensors to be in substantial numbers to make a difference.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 03 Feb 2010 08:40

bodhi wrote:OT - Who came up woth the name Rambha?

Whoever it was, we're not naming PAK-FA anything so tapori. I suggested Madhubala come days ago.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Feb 2010 08:44

the round tvc nozzle will surely gain a saw tooth edge like JSF.

and with the extra thrust they can afford to play game like losing 15%
of possible thrust to benefit stealth more....the kind of game the YF23
played, while still retaining a far more capable A2A airframe design.

I like that

a hollowed out conformal integrated laser pod below
the nose and a small one OLS above it would be nice.

SriniY · Post by **SriniY** » 03 Feb 2010 11:59

Dmurphy wrote:
bodhi wrote:OT - Who came up woth the name Rambha?
Whoever it was, we're not naming PAK-FA anything so tapori. I suggested Madhubala come days ago.

OT post - But if the MKI is the rambha, then the PAK FA and MCA should be named as urvashi and menaka

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 03 Feb 2010 12:03

That lineage do not work in our case. Because among the three angels, Urvasi is the eldest one. However, here Rambha happened to be the elder one

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 03 Feb 2010 12:53

SriniY wrote:
Dmurphy wrote:Whoever it was, we're not naming PAK-FA anything so tapori. I suggested Madhubala come days ago.
OT post - But if the MKI is the rambha, then the PAK FA and MCA should be named as urvashi and menaka

Just to set the record straight ----

The word Rambha does not allude to beauty.. "Rambha" here does not refer to the sexy/beautiful celestial dancer Rambha.

"Rambha" here refers to a south India heroine who was famous for her well endowed backside

During the early days of Su30MKI somebody in the forum (should have been a Tamilian or Andhriite) found MKI's awesome behind reminiscent of the particular heroine's XXXL sized bottomside and thence the name stuck..

Thank god.. you get such insightful tidbits on BR

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Feb 2010 13:10

IIRC it was those massive engines, which reminded someone of a certain actresses' thighs !

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 03 Feb 2010 13:20

^^

IIRC it is not just the backside, but the southie rambha was called "thunder thighs" rambha. The two huge AL-31FP's remined the jingos of the "thunder thighs"

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 03 Feb 2010 14:13

^^^ I see... Considering the flat profile and big engines of PAK-FA, do people like to call it is as Tollywood Ileana ?

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 03 Feb 2010 14:14

Ahem...enough of this talk about aerodynamics of south Indian bluff bodies...move on to discuss the slenderness ratios / curves of the chic/bird in question.

I am curious to know as to how people concluded that part of the compressor blades are visible.
IMO the final configuration of the bird will be much more refined and she will win the Miss Universe contest.

kit · Post by **kit** » 03 Feb 2010 15:20

Are we going to name PAKFA by its backside as well ?

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 03 Feb 2010 16:45

Kanson wrote:^^^ I see... Considering the flat profile and big engines of PAK-FA, do people like to call it is as Tollywood Ileana ?

"Flat profile = Ileana"

But Ileana is not exactly synonymous with stealth.. is she? She exposes too much too easily... No concealment at all..

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Feb 2010 18:49

rakall wrote: .......................................

"Rambha" here refers to a south India heroine who was famous for her well endowed backside During the early days of Su30MKI somebody in the forum (should have been a Tamilian or Andhriite) found MKI's awesome behind reminiscent of the particular heroine's XXXL sized bottomside and thence the name stuck.

Thank god.. you get such insightful tidbits on BR

An unnamed person, of good value, residing in Canada.

Let us leave it at that.

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Feb 2010 19:15

Dilbu SSSSSSSSSSS.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 03 Feb 2010 19:17

negi wrote:Dilbu SSSSSSSSSSS.

"Rambha" here refers to a south India heroine who was famous for her well endowed backside

No.. you silly kufrs.. that Rambha is known for her thighs.

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Feb 2010 19:20

Just legpulling onlee (using lahori logic canada==kanadian vijja) .

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Feb 2010 21:49

some more pics

suraj p · Post by **suraj p** » 03 Feb 2010 21:55

Wow...

Will there be a big change in engines in the future versions/final version?
They are like scar on sultry Zeenat Amman in Satyam Sivam sundaram.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Feb 2010 22:04

The LERX seems pretty large had it been closer to cockpit it would have been called a canard

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 03 Feb 2010 22:06

Austin,
Thanks. Great Pics specially the second one.

Suraj,
Yes, the present engine is 117. The next will be 117s with 3d thrust vectoring. Final version will have Al-41 with 170 KN thrust, 3D thrust vectoring and Reverse Thrust Vectoring(whatever that may mean).

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 03 Feb 2010 22:23

Gaur wrote:Reverse Thrust Vectoring(whatever that may mean).

Wiki says that...

Thrust reversal, also called reverse thrust, is the temporary diversion of an aircraft engine's exhaust or changing of propeller pitch so that the thrust produced is directed forward, rather than aft. This acts against the forward travel of the aircraft, providing deceleration. Thrust reversers are used by many jet aircraft to help slow down just after touch-down, reducing wear on the brakes and enabling shorter landing distances. It is also available on many propeller aircraft through reversing the controllable pitch propellers to a negative angle.

It further quotes that C-17 uses such engine...!

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 03 Feb 2010 22:24

suraj p wrote:Wow...

Will there be a big change in engines in the future versions/final version?
They are like scar on sultry Zeenat Amman in Satyam Sivam sundaram.

Well a little bit of photoshop and the scars are gone...

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 03 Feb 2010 22:33

I am completely new to this toy business so please do not laugh and be kind.

Based on the above photshop, it seems like the engine needs some covering, to retain stealth? and that the PAKFA may not have designed for such a cover as the Engine on this aircraft is only temporary, so why waste time and effort on it, till the new engines are done/integrated?

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 03 Feb 2010 22:40

Shaurya I photoshopped it, just to speculate, how it might look a little later, without taking into context any technical consequence of doing it.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 03 Feb 2010 22:41

NRao wrote: An unnamed person, of good value, residing in Canada.

Let us leave it at that.

An admiral at that..

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 03 Feb 2010 22:45

Shaurya,
There is nothing to laugh at. You are right. In all probability the engines would be covered in future versions. However whenever a fighter is produced, it goes through various prototype versions to test its various other characteristics. That is how it is for all the fighters that have ever been produced. The first prototype is never the same as the final version. And at present, the Al-41 is not ready but through the present prototype, the various other tests will be done. So, it is not a waste of time. In fact, I would not be surprised if the first squadron of pak-fa for RuAF would have 117s with Al-41 added for later squadrons.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 03 Feb 2010 22:50

Cybaru wrote:
NRao wrote: An unnamed person, of good value, residing in Canada.

Let us leave it at that.
An admiral at that..

We have an Admiral on BR?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Feb 2010 23:06

cy,

Ranks have no meaning on BR.

Correctness does.

However,

Austin,

In the thrid pic that you posted we can see a small gap between what you call the LERX and the body. Wonder if that part has SOME mobility to perform some functions assigned to a canard. ?????????????

Akshut,

You then lose 3-D vectoring is my understanding. Gain IR suppression. IF RUians wanted IRSup, they would have gone that route to start with.

We have an Admiral on BR?

Titled and land based. Yes.

On reverse-thrust. It is a very, very, very common practice on practically every civilian plane - when they land. They ALL deploy their reverse thrusters to slow down before they apply their brakes.

Some even use them to get away from gates - very rare, but have seen it done in MN-StPaul (NW Airlines???)

suraj p · Post by **suraj p** » 03 Feb 2010 23:15

Gaur wrote:Shaurya,
There is nothing to laugh at. You are right. In all probability the engines would be covered in future versions. However whenever a fighter is produced, it goes through various prototype versions to test its various other characteristics. That is how it is for all the fighters that have ever been produced. The first prototype is never the same as the final version. And at present, the Al-41 is not ready but through the present prototype, the various other tests will be done. So, it is not a waste of time. In fact, I would not be surprised if the first squadron of pak-fa for RuAF would have 117s with Al-41 added for later squadrons.

BTW, does F-22 also had significant changes in their design from prototype to final version? I did not see any changes externally (through variety of photographs), very few would know what changes were done between prototype to production version in its internal configuration.

BBC in its report quote a military analyst:
""It's just a prototype lacking new engines and a new radar," military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer told the Associated Press news agency.""

In any case, changing the rear-butte in prototype will be a significant change

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 03 Feb 2010 23:15

sumshyam wrote:
Gaur wrote:Reverse Thrust Vectoring(whatever that may mean).
It further quotes that C-17 uses such engine...!

I think so does Tornado and Viggen.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 03 Feb 2010 23:23

suraj p wrote: BTW, does F-22 also had significant changes in their design from prototype to final version? I did not see any changes externally (through variety of photographs), very few would know what changes were done between prototype to production version in its internal configuration.

http://home.iae.nl/users/wbergmns/f22vsf22y.jpg

BBC in its report quote a military analyst:
""It's just a prototype lacking new engines and a new radar," military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer told the Associated Press news agency.""

Duh! Of course its a prototype. Thanks for stating the obvious Mr.Felgenhauer.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Feb 2010 23:36

does F-22 also had significant changes in their design from prototype to final version?

10 in 10 years.

Check out a very nice article written for the LM magazine (InSight?). Do not have the URL in front of me.

BTW the F-22 is a 1980s plane. He he he he he he.

added l8r:

Here is the site for "Insight", but they seem to have removed issues before 2ndQ 2004. So, unless I find it on my HD we may not have immediate access to the article I am talking about (unless someone else does). (BUT, the site is still worth a visit.)

Sri Harsha · Post by **Sri Harsha** » 04 Feb 2010 00:07

Austin wrote:some more pics
inline images deleted by moderator

In the third picture it looks like LCA Tejas.

Just from this angle. Not a comparison though between the two

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 04 Feb 2010 01:50

nachiket wrote:
We have an Admiral on BR?

To be precise, he is a rear-admiral..

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 04 Feb 2010 02:09

He also owes us mithai, equal to the displacement of one Akula-2 SSN when it enters Indian Navy service

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 04 Feb 2010 02:33

"Rambha" here refers to a south India heroine who was famous for her well endowed backside
No.. you silly kufrs.. that Rambha is known for her thighs.

Forgive me if i have sinned.
How can we forget, she is our very own Shakuntla on earth.

She is God's vision, of pure thought. Composed in His creative mind;
His reveries of beauty wrought, The peerless pearl of womankind.
So plays my fancy when I see,How great is God, how lovely she.
She seems a flower whose fragrance none has tasted,
A gem uncut by workman's tool,A branch no desecrating hands have wasted,
Fresh honey, beautifully cool.