J & K news and discussion

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Sep 2010 11:21

^ This is surprising because Maulana Mahmood Madani in an interview to Paki TV said that people of J&K should live with India and protest peacefully.

AbhishekD · Post by **AbhishekD** » 21 Sep 2010 11:26

^^^ This clearly is the initial shot in mobilizing opinion around the point that the repression and brutality in kashmir is what made kashmir go away from India and not the jihadi, wahabi nature of the struggle.

The reason J-u-H is wading in troubled waters is because it believes that there will be enormous backlash if ever kashmir goes away and it wants to position the politics properly in support with left wing intellectuals and secularists so that political pressure can be deflected.

Manmeet · Post by **Manmeet** » 21 Sep 2010 11:31

Too much of this discussion is making me sick !
There can be one of the two:

1. It is either vote bank politics that is making congress lead GOI taking no bloody action. India is winning this war then why compromise?
2. If they want to take action then go out for god's sake and militerised that place as much that it becomes hard for them to breathe !
All they have to do is to control freaken hurriyat pests !
Wake up Ikhwaans and SOG and don't let hurriyat form any where in kashmir.
There are only 7 damn districts they have to control for god's sake !
Intelligence is a must ! But who is going to convince these gandhi driven congressi chimps !
From narrow alley ways to muhallas and districts, Ikhwaans should be made a scary yet disciplined force. Hurriyat needs to go just eliminate them through ikhwaanies.
There are only 7 districts to tame. It is a 3 to 4 month job max for paramilitary.

This got to be stinking congressi style politics and nothing else

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Sep 2010 13:11

The Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind (JUH) has convened a conference at Deoband early next month of all the Muslim sects to evolve a consensus over the Kashmir situation and express solidarity with the community in the Valley. The JUH also plans to send a delegation to the Valley.

We ( Desh) is truly fcked.... Even before the valley secedes, the side effects are starting to come through...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Sep 2010 13:17

sum wrote:Does it mean that Desh is royally screwed in coming days and things are only going to go downhill from now with GoI not even bothering to wake up and start its own games?

Sum, certainly India is putting herself in a tight spot against the combined onslaught of PRC & TSP. The current developments in J&K are a manifestation of their game plan. I do not know what games India is playing or is it playing anything at all. Those who are better at figuring out the 'Chanakianness' of GoI's moves and actions would be able to explain all that better. I have always believed that a nation-state has to not only stand strong when grave threats appear but also seem to stand strong to its ordinary citizens or else the morale of the nations lies shattered. GoI has singularly failed to do that in the present juncture.

The only redeeming note was when Geelani & Co backed out of their plan to protest 'peacefully' in front of army installations when the IA warned them strongly. Such a warning should have come from the political leaders but the IA probably felt that it could no longer wait before the situation turned critical. The ruling political elite has shown such an extraordinary pusillanimity that the Army (very rare for it to have argued its case so strongly; only the second time AFAIK, the first one being the pull back from Siachen) had to voice its displeasure regarding AFSPA.

So, what conclusion can one come to ?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Sep 2010 13:19

SSridhar wrote:So, what conclusion can one come to ?

GoI has lost control of the situation. Now it will be up to the Army to pull the chest out of fire and they will be demonised once they get the job done, as usual. Truly phucked if you ask me.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Sep 2010 13:49

SS and other gurus,the one thing that I utterly fail to understand is the actions of the GOI. This is especially true in context of the nature of domestic politics.

If we understand Indian politics (popular perception ) to be the preserve of throat cutters and assorted goons. Then why the GOI which is primarily made of such characters is not able to cut a few throats in order to get the job done. Also, if we accept that politics is all about gaining and keeping power. The current mess in the valley is showing that the GOI is losing power.

Why, whats in it for GOI to show that it is loosing power.

What is it that they are trying to achieve?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Sep 2010 17:53

What if the Deoband move is to take the steam away from the Valley Islamist sepratists? How come Deoband was silent all this while and suddenly felt the pangs of distress and grief for the Valley Muslims?

There is serious blow back to KM if this happens and here is why:

Deoband says Muslims in Kashmir are persecuted and GOI needs to be more passionate. For this to happen, the Valley muslims, and especially their leaders, need to see eye to eye with Deoband. Now, this cannot happen unless there was a tete a tete going on for some time. And someone from outside needs to engineer this move. I'll come to third party catalyst later.

IMO, any move of solidarity between Deoband and KM Leaders will immediately give it a religious color. While BRF has long know about the calls for Nizam-e-Mustafa, the mango abdul in India will be presented the developments in Kasmir in religious colors. Out of window goes the facade of Kashmiriyat and self determination. This also divided the J&K clearly into 3 segments - Ladakh/Kashmir/Jammu.

The call is now from KM for autunomy and not from J&K.

This is the stupidest thing to do - I have no idea why someone would want to do this.

Question is - whose bidding is the Deoband doing? INC seems to be the cat's paw but what does it gain? Wean away the KM from hardline Islamist leadership in Valley? But how?

Is the scene being set for division of Valley along three lines?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 21 Sep 2010 17:58

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article738603.ece
M. K. Bhadrakumar speaks

An unseen passenger would have travelled in the special aircraft ferrying the “all-party delegation” to Srinagar on Monday [September 20]. The distinguished parliamentarians might not have noticed the American's discreet presence. He came straight from a fateful conclave in a five-star hotel in Islamabad last Wednesday. For the first time in the 60-year post-colonial history of our region, the political and military leadership of the United States, Pakistan and Afghanistan sat together under a chandelier in Islamabad to choreograph a new security architecture for the region and it was a dazzling display of American influence in our part of the world.

<snip>

The political reality is that Pakistan has escalated its rhetoric on Kashmir. The government's invitation to China to invest in the development of J&K indeed underscores our growing sense of awareness. We need to carefully measure the timeline available to normalise the J&K situation. A regime change in Srinagar is not the priority today. Politicising the crisis will be a most irresponsible thing to do.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 21 Sep 2010 22:47

Have you read Yechurys statements

While Yechury, matured and equally firm, told Geelani, "India is saddled with parliament's resolution that says that Kashmir is integral part of India.."

http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2010/09/ ... tiate.html

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2010 00:40

Pioneer on the All Party Delegation to J&K

Commendable effort
September 22, 2010 1:02:42 AM

The Pioneer Edit Desk

All-party delegation has done a good job

Leader of Opposition in the Lok Sabha Sushma Swaraj is entirely correct in pointing out that groups of MPs calling on separatist leaders at their homes was not part of the mandate given to the all-party delegation that visited Srinagar and Jammu over Monday and Tuesday. The remit of the team was to talk to a cross-section of society and representatives of political parties and organisations to gauge the prevailing mood in Jammu & Kashmir and communicate its views to the Union Government. Those views are supposed to help the Prime Minister and his team to formulate their response to the strife in the Kashmir Valley, which has witnessed rapid escalation in recent weeks, and a strategy to contain the insidious influence of separatists. The MPs who met the leader of the pro-Pakistani faction of the All-Party Hurriyat Conference, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, the leader of the so-called ‘moderate’ faction of the APHC Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and the JKLF chief, Mr Yasin Malik, to seek their views (as if this needed to be done!) did so on their own. Did they err? Not really. While it is true that nothing can be achieved by talking to Mr Geelani and his ilk, it is equally true that neither he nor Mr Malik can pretend their views have been ignored by the all-party delegation. That does not, however, mean that what they had to tell their interlocutors should get undue prominence in the team’s report to the Union Government. More importantly, hopefully those who called on the separatists did not do so to impress their communal constituencies: Mr Sitaram Yechury in West Bengal and Mr Ram Vilas Paswan in Bihar. Cynical politicians should desist from fishing in the troubled waters of Jammu & Kashmir.

What is disquieting is the attempt by authorities to prevent the Kashmiri Pandits living as refugees in Jammu from meeting the all-party delegation. It is shocking that the police should have used strong-arm measures to keep them at bay; but for the State unit of the BJP threatening to boycott the delegation, the Pandits would have remained unheard. Ever since they were driven out of their homes in Kashmir by the separatists with the sole purpose of cleansing the Valley of all Hindus and making it 100 per cent Muslim, the Pandits have been made to suffer silently, denied official assistance and stripped of dignity. The many promises made to them have been forgotten by successive Union Governments, including the NDA regime led by the BJP. Yet, it is an indisputable fact that despite the Pandits remaining loyal to their motherland and steadfastly refusing to endorse the demand of the separatists, their views are never factored in while discussing the ‘Kashmir issue’. This is a flaw in New Delhi’s policy that needs to be corrected if it wishes to defeat separatism in the Kashmir Valley. Indeed, it would be wrong to settle on a ‘Kashmir policy’ without consulting the people of Jammu, the people of Ladakh and the Pandits. The separatists and their supporters in the Kashmir Valley by no means represent the majority in the State. Any dispassionate analysis would show that they are in a minority. This should not be lost sight of by the all-party delegation when it conveys its findings to the Union Government.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Sep 2010 00:44

SOFT STATE STYLE WON’T WORK IN J&K

The turmoil in Kashmir continues and government’s nerve seems to be cracking. Curfews, police firings, dying protesters have not broken the momentum of the street protests. Pressure to find a “political” solution to the problem has increased, as if the government hasn’t tried to find one in the last 63 years with a frustrating lack of success. This has included accords with leaders like Sheikh Abdullah, organizing of credible elections in recent years to remove the taint of past election-rigging, various dialogue initiatives, overtures to separatists, development outlays for removing the economic roots of Kashmiri discontent etc.

While force used to quell terrorist violence in J&K has badly hurt the civilian population, yet India has restrained its military hand internally. A comparison with the methods used by both China and Pakistan in suppressing challenges to state authority should have been instructive for the neighbouring Kashmiris. Unlike Pakistan’s conduct in Baluchistan and FATA, India hasn’t used heavy military equpment and air power against the Kashmiris, causing massive internal displacement as in the case of the Pakhtoons. China’s suppression of Tibetan and Uighur resistance, coupled with policies to change the demographic complexion of these territories and restrict religious freedom, have obviously not registered on the political mind of Kashmiri population challenging Indian rule. India has been unusually humane in its treatment of Kashmiri separatists, giving them considerable political space despite their abrasive anti-national postures, allowing them to meet India’s external adversaries in its own capital city and travel to foreign countries for garnering political and financial support, tolerating the open alignment of their political strategies with Pakistan, permitting them access to the national media etc. All this has been part of a pressing but doomed search by a democratic India for a political way out of the highly vexed Kashmir problem.

Externally too India has favoured a political solution rather than a military one. Indeed, India gave up the military option in 1947 itself, when rather than expelling the Pakistani invading forces from the whole of J&K, it appealed to the UN for a negotiated political solution. In 1965, confronted with renewed Pakistani aggression, India again chose the political route to finding a solution under Soviet auspices, even restoring the strategic Haji Pir Pass to Pakistan to show political flexibility. In 1971, India had Pakistan on its knees militarily, but, once again, it let long term political considerations over-ride short term perspectives, and sparing Pakistan more humiliation than necessary and trusting it more than prudence dictated, agreed to the ambiguous 1972 Simla Agreement. Vajpayee’s Lahore visit, the decision not to escalate the Kargil conflict by retaliatory action across the LOC, the back channel dialogue with Pakistan under Musharraf’s watch, steps to allow travel and trade across the LOC in J&K, have all been part of a policy of resolving the Kashmir problem “politically”.

The problem has always been what a “political” solution means for the principal actors. India rejects categorically the right to “self-determination” by the Kashmiris. It wants a solution within the parameters of its Constitution, which implies that the Kashmiris must accept that the state belongs to India and no “dispute” over its status exists. Are the Kashmiri separatists and the stone-pelters willing to acquiesce in this? This stipulation probably means that short of secession any viable adjustment in constitutional arrangements with Kashmir can be made. Is there parliamentary support for this? The government is willing to talk to all those in Kashmir who abjure violence. But then, it is not enough that the Kashmiris in J&K abjure violence, those from Pakistan must do also. Is it the expectation that our Kashmiris will repudiate Pakistan supported elements and make a separate peace with India on acceptable terms?

Pakistan has lately begun stressing the Kashmiri self-determination demand as part of its more aggressive posture towards India under General Kayani, though it knows India will never agree. What Pakistan might ultimately agree to is some form of shared sovereignty over parts of J&K, which was the sense of General Musharraf’s back-channel efforts with India. Pakistan will not settle for the status quo in J&K, and any perception that “making the border irrelevant” would not involve some major compromise by India would be erroneous. It is important to have clarity over this as we are officially projecting the back channel results as positive and want the present Pakistan government to endorse them.

The Kashmiri Muslims see a political solution very differently from India. They harp incessantly on “azadi”, which literally means independence, but is interpreted as an amorphous term which could mean “self-rule” and not necesssarily sovereign status. It is supposedly the culminating expression of the Kashmiris sense of alienation from India, their desire to live in dignity, free from repression and over-bearing Indian authority. The assumption here is- and this is echoed by Kashmiri leaders of all hues- that India bears all the resposibility for the prevailing sense of alienation the Kashmiris feel because of its political mistakes, broken promises, the brutality of its security forces etc. The Kashmiris, in this narrative, are hapless victims, driven to desperation by an insensitive and neglectful India. The guilt is all India’s, the victimhood all theirs. While the government feels it is dealing with its own people, the Kashmiri Muslims, by and large, don’t think they are “Indian”.

All Kashmiri leaders are one in claiming that the issues involved are political, not economic. The mainstream leaders want the pre-1953 autonomous status of J&K restored. The “moderate” separatists speak of self-determination, the hardline ones demand patronizingly that as a dialogue pre-condition India must accept that Kashmir is an “international dispute”. The demand for AFSPA’s revision or its removal from selected valley districts- rightly resisted by the armed forces- is a red herring as the current protests have been provoked by police not military action. Any Indian concession under duress will become the baseline for further demands by the Kashmiri Muslims in the next phase of their agitation in an attrition strategy now drawing on globally tested Muslim protest techniques.

Sections of the Kashmiri Muslims has never given up their determined assault on the Indian state. The mosque based politics of their leaders offends India’s secularism; their unwillingness to accept their Indian identity is a prolongation of the two-nation theory. The latest strategy of “stone-pelting”, borrowed from the Palestinian intifada, is not spontaneous. It is an effective movement orchestrated by well organized informal networks that see the Indian government flummoxed in its reaction. Hints of concessions have come from the Home Minister speaking about past promises inscribed in various accords not kept by India. This moral capitulation will only make the Kashmiris more self-righteous in their breast beating. The hardliners are being approached for defusing the situation. Our press is propagating the impression that our security forces have run amuck and are firing on innocent Kashmiris indiscriminately. Most of these coloured stories are from Kashmiri reporters.

We are seeing the reactions of a soft state, persisting in the grave mistakes it has always made in Kashmir. We must deal with the Kashmiri attack on our nationhood more firmly.

The writer is a former Former Secretary MEA

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Sep 2010 01:00

sum wrote:
There is complete chaos on the Kashmir and Pakistan fronts within GoI. The crumbs that the US are feeding India regarding terrorism, Pakistan and China are making the policy makers complacent that the US would stand by us if situation so demands. Nothing can be farthest from truth for two reasons. One, the American untrustworthiness and two the irreverence that both China and Pakistan have for the US. While US commands no respect from China, Pakistan has mastered the art of milking the Americans while completely having her way in matters relating to India.
Thanks for the explanation,SS-sir.

Does it mean that Desh is royally screwed in coming days and things are only going to go downhill from now with GoI not even bothering to wake up and start its own games?

This is the same GOI that could not even get the CWG going smoothly (compare to Asian Games). What do you expect from them?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2010 01:07

Jarita, Please. How does CWG connect to this thread? There is the whine thread in GDF for ocassional letting of steam.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 22 Sep 2010 01:46

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

The latest happenings in Kashmir seen through the lens of the New York Times...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2010 02:19

Thats no lens! Its colored glass.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Sep 2010 04:37

Actually we always get confused about factional behaviour among IM organizations because we are constantly being demanded to believe that they have oh-so-many-differences. Many of their supposed differences are loudly highlighted to create an image of fractures. The problem is where exactly are those fractures - on what issues - are never highlighted or explored. A and B could have differences on how to kill the goat. They can have a huge public debate on whether to kill the goat immediately in the morning or later in the evening, which type of knife to use, whether to bleed the goat slowly or sever the head straightaway. All of us cans tand around in open-mouthed amazement because some among us are jumping up an down to claim look how different they are. If the goat could speak it would say - from its viewpoint those difference do not really matter.

All the factional infighting we get so worked over and demand that everyone believe as supreme example of heterogeneity - actually mean nothing and converge to the one single common ultimate objective. Bit by bit increase exclusive claim to land and territiory where a particular lifestyle and religious law will reign supreme.

In reply to nachiketji's post I wrote this a couple of pages back :

Actually its the age-old dilemma of Islamism in India. The man who found "Harit-Pradesha" carved out of UP where Muslims "dominate" - a positive and attractive outcome, will naturally be concerned. I am not sure that he exactly consciously feels all of the arguments that I am going to give, but those arguments is a parsimonious explanattion for similar sentiments of identifying anti-IA moves with Pak.

The ideology of separate Muslim homeland - where Muslims and Islam lords it over all others - was a direct consequence of Islamists from UP, and particularly the Deobandis who still flourish within India. The UPite Deeobandis were against the Partition - since correctly they understaood that their great project of Islamization of the whole subcontinent would suffer for the short term gain. They are also losing the leadership of Islamism over the entire subcontinent if more parts strike out independently.

Danger is that those individual parts may have their own ambitions to become the supreme Islamic power centre and the UPite Islamists then run the risk of having to fight co-religionists for supreme power.

If KM move against IA then even without Akbar's pointer a lot of non-Muslims will come to the conclusion that KM are after all against India, and that will be something very difficult to whitewash with the thickest paint of non-communal labels. From there, with all the uncanny resemblances to other Islamist movements elsewhere - those very same non-Muslim Indians may come to even more stark conclusions. Out goes any hope for a "Harit Pradesh" or unified Caliphate of India then!

So Deobandis need to stake their claim on the agitation.

At a practical level Deobandis have been giving convenient noises that apparently comes in handy for the ruling regime. That there is a possibility of a tacit understanding by which Deobandis are also allowed the liberty of getting away with declaring "fatwas" to their own taste [which in itself is bold statement of aspiration for a theological state - as fatwas are supposed to be only given out by the theological rulers of an Islamic state binding on all living under it] by giving cooperative statement of political utility to the ruler. So they might have been pressed into service which they will also use for their own ultimate objective.

Even if it gets a religious colour, the regime is now supremely confident that reaction will not go to swell the opposition - did not the electorate reject the supposed sectarian politics of only one group?

Our greatest self-delusions lie in seeing differences where they do not exist and not seeing differences where they exist.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Sep 2010 06:47

Pranay wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

The latest happenings in Kashmir seen through the lens of the New York Times...

Thus spake the vegetarian terrorist Yasin Mallik

Ultimately, he argued, the only thing that will pacify Kashmiris is a political solution, involving Pakistan, to fulfill the region’s desire for self-determination.

He must have got a call from Kiyani to say "good boy" stick to this line or else.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 22 Sep 2010 06:51

question: The ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri pundits is well known. Are all Kashmiri hindus pundits? I was asked this question recently and realised I had not thought about other "non-pundit'" categories of Hindus in Kashmir.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 22 Sep 2010 07:51

KPs = brahmins.

The KV is a small part of the JK state, does the insurgency exist in vast tracts of land outside the valley or is it localized to that area?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Sep 2010 08:08

From a tweet:

A very apperceptive piece from @Vikram_Sood on why Kashmir is a long haul. But we need to persist. http://is.gd/fmhjN

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Sep 2010 08:12

Pakistan has no locus standi on J&K: India

It said Pakistan should instead tackle the issues of constitutional safeguards, democracy, extremism, terrorism and human rights violations in the part of Jammu and Kashmir that was under its “illegal occupation.”

The above statement should not have been made by GoI. By asking Pakistan to implement 'constitutional safeguards, democracy', India has implicitly recognized PoK as part of TSP. Instead, its should have simply demanded the withdrawal of Pakistani state from PoK including Gilgit-Baltistan-Chitral and return the territory to India.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Sep 2010 08:45

Autonomy widens Cong-NC rift

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Autonomy- ... 03098.aspx

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 22 Sep 2010 09:02

A quick question - does the J&K police come under the ambit of AFSPA?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2010 09:19

No. They are not armed forces. They are police forces.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 22 Sep 2010 09:25

Hari Seldon wrote:From a tweet:

A very apperceptive piece from @Vikram_Sood on why Kashmir is a long haul. But we need to persist. http://is.gd/fmhjN

An excerpt:

The other expression frequently heard is “the legitimate aspirations of the people of Kashmir”. How are these aspirations different from those of the people of the rest of the country? Surely all of them want for themselves and their families a quality of life — health, education, employment and security — that improves steadily with time, along with the freedoms and equalities guaranteed by our Constitution. Any demand outside the Constitution is, therefore, illegitimate and cannot be entertained by the rest of India. Besides, any demand must also relate to people from Jammu, the Srinagar Valley and Ladakh — to Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, Gujjars and Bakarwals and not only a section of the Muslims from the Valley.

The bolded phrase is a key one ... instead of focusing on concepts like autonomy, focus on legitimate aspirations.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 22 Sep 2010 10:01

AFSPA essential instrument, Army being made scapegoat in J&K http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20100922/80 ... -bein.html

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 22 Sep 2010 11:45

All-party delegation visits Jammu:

The harshest reaction to some delegation members’ visit to the residence of separatist leaders in Kashmir yesterday came from the Bar Association, Jammu, which said some of the delegation members have brought "shame to entire India’’ by visiting the house of JKLF chairman Yasin Malik, who was the killer of five Indian Air Force (IAF) jawans in 1990. It called for the Centre to bring to an end to appeasement policy towards Kashmir, categorically rule out azadi, autonomy or self rule, treat Kashmir as integral part of India or, otherwise, get ready for a mass agitation in Jammu.

Official sources said majority members of the delegation have gathered an impression that while ‘azadi’ sentiment was high in Kashmir, there was a strong sentiment for India in Jammu. The people of Jammu were not anti-Kashmir but anti-separatists and militants, they added. They got a feeling that Jammu and Ladakh regions can’t be ignored while working out any solution to Kashmir problem. They got the view that Jammu and Kashmir regions were two different parts of the coin and their problems have to be addressed very carefully.

Choudhary Lal Singh, Congress MP from Udhampur-Doda Parliamentary constituency also opposed any cut in powers of Army saying the troops have sacrificed many lives while fighting militancy in the State. He demanded that five-six separatists leaders were responsible for Kashmir problem and should be lodged in Tihar jail. He said that some persons were running ‘pathar (stone) industry’.

The BJP called for delimitation of the State Assembly and Parliamentary seats to take Jammu’s share at par with Kashmir, settlement of claims of 1947 refugees from PoK, reservation of eight seats for them, adequate compensation to 1965 and 1971 refugees and border migrants, return and rehabilitation of Kashmiri Pandits back to the Valley and reservation of five Assembly seats for them in Kashmir.

Apparently there is PDP in Jammu also:

The PDP delegation led by Tarlok Singh Bajwa, former MP called upon the Central team to respect the sentiments of the people indulging in violence in Kashmir. They said "misgovernance’’ by Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has led to present turmoil in the Valley.

Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) delegation, led by its State unit president, Tulsi Dass Langeh rejected, azadi, autonomy and self rule describing them as one and the same thing. They demanded dismissal of Omar Abdullah Government and imposition of Governor’s rule in the State followed by fresh elections. They wanted the AFSPA to continue and demanded grant of OBC status to Jats.

Thupstan Chhewang, former Lok Sabha member from Ladakh and BJP leader called for granting Union Territory (UT) status to Ladakh on the ground that existing arrangement of Ladakh Autonomous Hill Development Council, Leh and Kargil was not working satisfactory.

A delegation of Akhil Bhartiya Gujjar Maha Sabha led by Eshfaq-ur-Rehman Poswal met the delegation and demanded development of the areas inhibited by Gujjar and Bakerwals and other facilities for them.

Earlier, the State Government had not extended invitation to Sangarsh Samiti, VHP, J&K PF, West Pak refugees, PoK refugees and Panun Kashmir to meet the delegation. However it was only on the protest of BJP which threatened to boycott the delegation that invitation was sent to these organizations barring PoK refugees.

Why did the delegation turn away Western Jammu refugees? Not enough chai-biskoot left?

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 22 Sep 2010 12:53

Pakistan whining about international intervention....
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_pa ... ir_1441449

Pakistan has asked the international community, particularly the US, to intervene in Kashmir in resolving the contentious issue which is central to peace in the region.

"The occupation cannot continue. The rights of the Kashmiri people cannot continue to be denied," Pakistan foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said yesterday.

"We call upon the United States particularly, which is pressing so responsibly for peace in the Middle East, to also invest its political capital in trying to help seek an accommodation for Kashmir," he said while speaking at the Council on Foreign Relations, a New York-based think-tank.

Qureshi asserted that resolving Kashmir was central to peace in the region, and likened it with finding a solution to the Palestinian conflict as a fundamental step for peace in the Middle East.

"It has always baffled me that the international community has long recognised that the Palestinian question is the core issue to peace in the Middle East, but does not seem to understand that, similarly, until the status of Jammu and Kashmir is resolved, real peace in South Asia will remain elusive," the minister said.

"Today, the Kashmiri youth, children and women have once again highlighted the occupation and suppressive policies of occupation in Indian held Kashmir," he said.

"Surely the world can recognise that this resistance is internal and visceral. It may be easy for some to dismiss the uprisings as outside agitation, but no one any longer can seriously believe this," he added.

"The international community must recognise that the people of Kashmir in an entirely indigenous upsurge are demanding their right to self determination," Qureshi continued, noting that the "the UN has long recognised this and now it is the time for the international community to do something about it."

Qureshi further said that resolving the Kashmir issue would also help combat anti-terror activities in the region. "It would be critical for the containment of terrorism, which is fueled and thrives on blatant examples of social and political injustice."

UN steps in with its opinions...
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_un ... ey_1441386

UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon has called for an immediate end to violence in Kashmir and appealed for restraint by all parties, his spokesperson said today.

"The secretary-general regrets the latest loss of life. He (Ban) calls for an immediate end to violence and urges calm and restraint by all concerned," Martin Nesirky told journalists, adding that Ban was "closely following events".

The statement comes almost a month after UN sent out an email, which said that Ban called on "all concerned to exercise utmost restraint and address problems peacefully" and he "encourages both sides to rekindle the spirit of the composite dialogue".

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 22 Sep 2010 13:19

thats a pretty neutral and non-event type of statement by the SG
the one by Jacques (Quereshi) is the usual gun to the head dramabaazi

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 22 Sep 2010 14:31

Why the practice of linking news articles isn't practiced when it comes to Pioneer articles? Is BR a donor or a partner of Pioneer?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Sep 2010 14:37

Venkarl wrote:Why the practice of linking news articles isn't practiced when it comes to Pioneer articles? Is BR a donor or a partner of Pioneer?

Actually Pioneer does come closest to BRF views in general media, having said that the real reason Pioneer articles were not linked too was because the poor guys (poor is to be taken literally here, they run the newspaper nearly hand to mouth) had a crappy web service where their articles were not cached and went away in a day or two.

They seem to have enabled some level of caching but their pockets are apparently not deep enough yet to splurge on a fully backed up publicly accessible archive.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 22 Sep 2010 14:40

Thanks Sanku.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Sep 2010 14:43

http://www.dailypioneer.com/284742/Ahea ... rawal.html

NATION | Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Ahead of meet, Jamiat presses for Act withdrawal
September 22, 2010 3:09:57 PM

PNS | New Delhi

The Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind on Tuesday demanded a blanket withdrawal of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) from areas of its operation and said it will invite the separatists from Jammu and Kashmir for its Kashmir Conference to be held at Deoband early next month.

A consensus on the issue was arrived at Jamiat’s national executive committee meeting held here on Sunday on the “deteriorating situation” in Kashmir. The meeting also aimed at formulating a strategy for restoration of peace in the Valley and extending help in alleviating the suffering of innocent people there.

Expressing concern over the killing of “innocent” citizens in Kashmir in “unrestrained firing by the police and CRPF,” the Jamiat said it sought to see this issue from humanitarian, Islamic and moral viewpoints.

“People of Kashmir are fed up with prolonged curfew…they are deprived of essential commodities and medicines…children are unable to attend school,” the Jamiat said in a statement.

Keeping these circumstances in mind, Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind has decided to hold Kashmir Conference at Deoband on October 4 to evolve a peaceful and unanimous civilian response to this crisis,” said MP and Jamiat leader Maulana Mahmood Madani on Tuesday.

“We must understand and respect their (Kashmiris’) legitimate aspirations. This alone, we believe, can create space for reconciliation and bring to an end the turmoil and conflict prevalent in the Valley. Steps to repress their voice would not bring any solution, instead it would complicate the situation further,” Madani said.

Sources in the Jamiat said the Muslim organisation will also invite the separatists from the Valley for the Kashmir Conference so as to elicit their views on the issues plaguing the State.

The sources said chief of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference Ali Syed Ali Shah Geelani will also be invited for the conference where the Muslim ulemas will express their “solidarity” with the people of the Valley.

Following the conference, the Jamiat will also launch a countrywide awareness campaign to sensitise all sections of civil society about the sufferings of the people in Kashmir and to seek cooperation of all organisations and leaders cutting across religious, social and political affiliations.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Sep 2010 15:20

^^ Ominous stuff...the wordings of the Jamiat statement read like a Paki media outlet report!!!

Guess this is a portend of things to come as more and more "grievances" come to light all over the country. Interestign that this news is blanked out in MSM. Maybe to avoid a backlash.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 22 Sep 2010 15:42

^ Jamiat should feel offended because of blanking out in media and come out more openly.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 22 Sep 2010 15:52

Reddif is doing a live chat with Mirwaiz Umer Farooq now.
I asked below question thrice, but rediff has suppressed it each time

Question: Mr. Mirwaiz, Why Shia Muslims, Bakarwals, Gujjars, Hindus, Sikhs and Ladhakhis of J&K are not demanding azadi?

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 22 Sep 2010 16:36

Any compromise on AFSPA will undermine the sacrifices made during Kargil and earlier conflicts.A border state is not a normal state, and should have a buffer zone (non-state Indian Border Zone) occupied permanently by the Indian Army and the BSF(First ten KM all along the border with Pakistan and China) to ensure that infiltration is totally ended.Kashmir on the other hand enjoys such close links across the border, that the Kashmiris tend to forget their connection with India,and that eventually compromises security.
In addition to kashmir,this should also be applicable to Punjab,Rajasthan,Gujrat,Arunachal Pradesh,Himachal Pradesh,UP,Uttaranchal,Bihar,West Bengal,and Assam. These states have international boundaries, and must give up first ten KM of land along the international border to the Army and BSF permanently.Andaman Nicobar Islands and the Lakshadeep and other islands must be totally governed by the Navy. India needs to develop as a strong and formidable military nation.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 22 Sep 2010 17:17

chetak wrote:http://www.dailypioneer.com/284742/Ahea ... rawal.html

NATION | Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Ahead of meet, Jamiat presses for Act withdrawal
September 22, 2010 3:09:57 PM

PNS | New Delhi

The Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind on Tuesday demanded a blanket withdrawal of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) from areas of its operation and said it will invite the separatists from Jammu and Kashmir for its Kashmir Conference to be held at Deoband early next month.

A consensus on the issue was arrived at Jamiat’s national executive committee meeting held here on Sunday on the “deteriorating situation” in Kashmir. The meeting also aimed at formulating a strategy for restoration of peace in the Valley and extending help in alleviating the suffering of innocent people there.

Expressing concern over the killing of “innocent” citizens in Kashmir in “unrestrained firing by the police and CRPF,” the Jamiat said it sought to see this issue from humanitarian, Islamic and moral viewpoints.

“People of Kashmir are fed up with prolonged curfew…they are deprived of essential commodities and medicines…children are unable to attend school,” the Jamiat said in a statement.

Keeping these circumstances in mind, Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind has decided to hold Kashmir Conference at Deoband on October 4 to evolve a peaceful and unanimous civilian response to this crisis,” said MP and Jamiat leader Maulana Mahmood Madani on Tuesday.

“We must understand and respect their (Kashmiris’) legitimate aspirations. This alone, we believe, can create space for reconciliation and bring to an end the turmoil and conflict prevalent in the Valley. Steps to repress their voice would not bring any solution, instead it would complicate the situation further,” Madani said.

Sources in the Jamiat said the Muslim organisation will also invite the separatists from the Valley for the Kashmir Conference so as to elicit their views on the issues plaguing the State.

The sources said chief of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference Ali Syed Ali Shah Geelani will also be invited for the conference where the Muslim ulemas will express their “solidarity” with the people of the Valley.

Following the conference, the Jamiat will also launch a countrywide awareness campaign to sensitise all sections of civil society about the sufferings of the people in Kashmir and to seek cooperation of all organisations and leaders cutting across religious, social and political affiliations.

Good. So non-Kashmiri ROPers have finally felt the pain of their Kashmiri brethren. At least this will blow off the 'secular, tolerant' image that Deoband had been trying to create through their pseudo-secular apologists.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Sep 2010 17:35

Chandragupta wrote:Good. So non-Kashmiri ROPers have finally felt the pain of their Kashmiri brethren. At least this will blow off the 'secular, tolerant' image that Deoband had been trying to create through their pseudo-secular apologists.

Yes but the Indian Muslims are also in a unique position through interaction with the Kashmir Muslims, impress upon them to reconsider their stand on the question of Azadi - that they are at home in India.

It is time the Indian Muslims start doing their part of the bargain for Indian 'secularism', regardless of the debate whether the bargain was or was not good for India.