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The shoe did not hit Musharraf because even shoes have honor and will not stoop below a particular level.VinodTK wrote:Man tries to hurl shoe at Musharraf
I think, there is also a cultural thing here..just like how Americans are trained not to haggle at the price...its either take it or leave it. They also think that once a deal is made, the other party will stick to their end of the bargain. The idea that the other party is just saying yes and goes on to do what they do..leaves the American clueless. They just keep getting back to the table to get conned.shiv wrote:There are only two explanations. One is that the US is stupid and the second is that the Pakistanis are far more clever than the US.
Theo I am very glad you raised this point, as it allows me space to clarify...my regular followersTheo_Fidel wrote:
S,
This can come across as racist. please edit...
anyway know what I mean...yellow in this context means yellow media. I always refer to Chennai yellow pages and other treacherous Stalinist rapist goon propaganda media as yellow media. Hey, this could be a 400% chankian brilliant rumor started by someone. Now that the story is out (whether it is true or not), chances are pretty good that every mullah with ambitions is going to task his junior abduls to keep a lookout for civilian trucks travelling in small convoys, especially those mullahs who aren't particularly army-friendly.Theo_Fidel wrote:http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2011/1 ... road-rage/
…instead of moving nuclear material in armored, well-defended convoys, the [Pakistani government] prefers to move material by subterfuge, in civilian-style vehicles without noticeable defenses, in the regular flow of traffic…according to a senior U.S. intelligence official, the Pakistanis have begun using this low-security method to transfer not merely the “de-mated” component nuclear parts but “mated” nuclear weapons.Western nuclear experts have feared that Pakistan is building small, “tactical” nuclear weapons for quick deployment on the battlefield. In fact, not only is Pakistan building these devices, it is also now moving them over roads.
In other words, the Pakistani government is willing to make its nuclear weapons more vulnerable to theft by jihadists simply to hide them from the United States, the country that funds much of its military budget.
I guess we'll see more nosedives in Pak economy in the coming months.Gus,Gus wrote:I think, there is also a cultural thing here..just like how Americans are trained not to haggle at the price...its either take it or leave it. They also think that once a deal is made, the other party will stick to their end of the bargain. The idea that the other party is just saying yes and goes on to do what they do..leaves the American clueless. They just keep getting back to the table to get conned.shiv wrote:There are only two explanations. One is that the US is stupid and the second is that the Pakistanis are far more clever than the US.
It also means there is lot of politics,lot of arm twisting in D.C than we might have imagined and understand.rajanb wrote: So if US admins haven't caught on in decades, is there something wrong with the water in D.C.?
It seems quite clear to me that the Paki ma-in-law seems to be calling the shots. And this when she has hubby Clinton to advise her.Altair wrote:It also means there is lot of politics,lot of arm twisting in D.C than we might have imagined and understand.rajanb wrote: So if US admins haven't caught on in decades, is there something wrong with the water in D.C.?
my response viewtopic.php?p=1189331#p1189331A_Gupta wrote:Pakis are crowing over this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... eport.html
That is good news, if true.Altair wrote:Word from a bird is that the only thing sasurma is willing to discuss is unconditional surrender of Haqqanis or else face the wrath of Khan.
Gakakkadji- Why it is not good news? And how sinister? Do tell.gakakkad wrote:^^^ that not good new.... word is that something pretty sinister is on cards....
Whatever it is India must prepare for War.It would be wise to be on High alert in these interesting times. MFN revoking is a message. There are two groups within Pak security establishment diametrically opposite viewpoints and time is running out.gakakkad wrote:^^^ that not good new.... word is that something pretty sinister is on cards....
A_Gupta wrote:Pakis are crowing over this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... eport.html
Pakis need something to say that they have it good. Atta prices in India Rs 10 per kg. Pakistan - 26 per kgIn absolute terms, 41.6 per cent of India's 1.1 billion people earned less than 78 pence per day compared with 22.6 per cent of Pakistan's 173 million.
in the present conversation the issue is whether we tacitly give the chinese the right to decide whether we are good enough to talk to them, not remembering that we have the same right. It is psychological power play which impacts the whole relationship.Democracy is not the issue.
Its more about whether the rulers of a nation have full freedom of sovereign action, identify with the nation, and derive their own power by advancing national power.
Or whether they are constrained by and obligated to foreign entities, and identify with foreign interests.
comrade jairam ramesh wrote:
"actually economic development may lead to retrogression of social indices."
A_Gupta wrote:Pakis are crowing over this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... eport.html
Are these prices normalized to INR or paki rupees ?,Atta prices in India Rs 10 per kg. Pakistan - 26 per kg
Chicken price India: Rs 100/kg. Pakistan Rs 300 per kg
To end the cuban missile crisis the US made a deal with the soviets to remove US missiles from Turkey. The media kept it mostly quiet and created a mythology of "they blinked first."[I did not say they got any medals at the end of that crisis. Just that they went to the brink in record time, and pushed the envelope when it came to climbing the escallation ladder early. That is all.
Besides the only violent act during the crisis was that of Russians shooting down an American U2 spy plane killing its pilot. Anyone who portrays cuban missile crisis as victory for the Americans knows very little history.To end the cuban missile crisis the US made a deal with the soviets to remove US missiles from Turkey. The media kept it mostly quiet and created a mythology of "they blinked first."
boss this is not good. I smell sh!t here. MFN, even if granted will remain on paper. They will secure our support for EU access and then do all dilly dallying wrt trade with India.then in DawnForeign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar has said that India would not block Islamabad’s bid to have greater access to European Union markets.
She strongly denied that Pakistan was not committed to finalising Most Favoured Nation (MFN) status for India, as alleged by an unnamed Indian government official on Friday, who said Islamabad was “backtracking” on the issue in the face of domestic opposition.
“There is absolutely no question of backtracking of cabinet approval of trade normalisation with India,” she said. “I want to completely dismiss any indication that there’s any retraction on what we said.”
What I was trying to say was that CFair has been fairly consistent throughout. She has carved herself a niche as the down-to-earth truthteller virago. Probably refinining the persona as she goes, but pretty steady overall.[No boss, I would cut Fair didi some slack. I think she does have the right pulse, but as an All American Blonde, she has American interests front and center (nothing wrong with that). So, as I read between the lines in her testimony, her basic thesis is that TSP fears and wants to thwart India's rise with pigLeTs, and furthermore, US is facilitating this according to TSP, and hence US must alleviate TSP concerns. Now, based on her past analysis, I conclude that this means that US must gift TSP a nuke deal provided it cracks down on all kinds of terrorists.
Basically army is saying NO Dont do it. Civvies want to do it. This has been the bone of contention from the beginning. The elites want it, but TSPA is against it from the beginning. Its suprising that the cabinet approved it. Let them slug it out - lets hope the civvies come out on top. At the same time TSPA doesnt want to make a big fuss over the issue.PM empowers commerce ministry for negotiations in Delhi.
By Abdul Manan / Kamran Yousaf
Published: November 5, 2011
Pakistan has already bestowed the designation on more than 100 countries, including China. PHOTO: FILE
Pakistan has already bestowed the designation on more than 100 countries, including China. PHOTO: FILE " We are extremely hopeful that there will be a major breakthrough in the next round of commerce secretaries’ meetings on November 14, 15 in Delhi," Commerce Secretary Zafar Mehmood.
LAHORE/ISLAMABAD:
The prime minister’s message to those looking towards the army regarding the move to grant India a symbolic trading status is simple: it’s none of the military’s business.
Speaking to reporters at his residence in Lahore on Friday, Yousaf Raza Gilani said the most favoured nation (MFN) issue does not involve the army, and stressed that only the business communities and stock exchanges of Pakistan and India are legitimate stakeholders – and both are on board, as are the political parties of the ruling coalition.
He said that the cabinet has, in principle, given the go-ahead to the ministry of commerce to negotiate with their Indian counterparts.
However, notwithstanding the PM’s firm stance, senior civil and military officials held meetings at the foreign ministry to discuss the implications of granting MFN status to India.
The meetings were chaired by Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar and attended by military and intelligence officials. The foreign ministry did not divulge details regarding the participants.
“As part of regular consultations, the foreign minister today consulted all stakeholders on foreign policy issues including the resumed dialogue process with India, at the foreign ministry,” said a ministry statement.
In Lahore, Gilani concentrated on the commerce ministry’s role as Pakistan and India begin the nitty-gritty of negotiations. The PM said the ministry would need to take important decisions independently when it comes to bargaining with India over trade policy, hence it had sought the cabinet’s go-ahead.
Pakistan has already bestowed MFN status on more than 100 countries. The somewhat misleading designation ‘most favoured nation’ should not detract from the main concern which lies ahead for the two countries: working out mutually beneficial and lasting agreements.
While the MFN status will remove discriminatory higher pricing and duty tariffs that stand as barriers to export between the neighbours, non-tariff barriers continue to stand in the way of increased trade, say analysts.
Nevertheless, the meetings in Islamabad prove that Pakistan’s military cannot be totally ignored. Indeed, the consultations took place against the backdrop of murmurs that Pakistan might review its decision to fully normalise trade ties with India.
In a clear departure from a decades-old policy, the federal cabinet on Wednesday unanimously decided to grant India MFN status. Since then, mixed signals emerged from different government quarters about the issue.
A Reuters report, which quoted an unnamed Indian official accusing Pakistan of backtracking, added to the confusion. Pakistan moved swiftly to dismiss the claim.
“Pakistan is not backtracking,” Foreign Office spokeswoman Tehmina Janjua told Reuters. “Pakistan clearly stated that our cabinet gave approval to move forward on MFN status in principle.”
Commerce Secretary Zafar Mehmood was also adamant that the deal was still on.
“The cabinet has given approval for the complete normalisation of the trade relationship, and MFN is fully included in it and it is part of it,” Zafar said in comments broadcast on state television.
“We are extremely hopeful that there will be a major breakthrough in the next round of commerce secretaries’ meetings on November 14, 15 in Delhi,” Mehmood added. “We will finalise all the details in that meeting.”
Gilani was in an equally positive mood. Asked whether all stakeholders are on board, the PM said that the coalition government is united on the issue.
The PM was quick to reassure those threatened by granting India the trade status, saying that the interests of local and domestic industry would be protected.
Gilani also affirmed the cabinet’s executive powers. “We can brief Parliament over the cabinet’s decision of going ahead with MFN, but according to my point of view it is not necessary. Only cabinet approval is necessary to negotiate with other countries,” he said.
Giving an example of countries which had set aside political difference for bilateral foreign trade, Gilani pointed to China and India.
Friday’s intrigues came ahead of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) summit in Maldives next week. Gilani and his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh are likely to meet on the sidelines of the conference.
(Read: Liberalising trade with India)
Published in The Express Tribune, November 5th, 2011.
Wasn't this extra mile walk by India done already during the unveiling of the birkin-handle-candy in India a couple of months ago?abhijitm wrote:
The ONLY relevance of the cuban crisis here was the context of my original comments - that the US has a propensity for and ability to rapidly excallate and, as a professed first use power, engage in brinkmanship. It had nothing to do with any other aspect of that crisis. That aspect of US behavior, I will say again, is relevant in the present situation. To bring in how it all ended and who did what & to whom, is not relevant. Having lived through those times, and with a strong interest in the history of the cold war, I am well aware of the rest of the irrelevant stuff.RSoami wrote:Besides the only violent act during the crisis was that of Russians shooting down an American U2 spy plane killing its pilot. Anyone who portrays cuban missile crisis as victory for the Americans knows very little history.To end the cuban missile crisis the US made a deal with the soviets to remove US missiles from Turkey. The media kept it mostly quiet and created a mythology of "they blinked first."
Apologies for OT. No more from me.
Regards
On Youtube:Nick_S wrote:BBC Episodes on TSP betraying US. 60 mins each.
Double Cross - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016ltpv
Secret Pakistan - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016n0js
I think BBC is only showing it for another 4 days, so watch it soon.
US hails Pakistan move to normalize trade with India
(AFP) – 2 days ago
WASHINGTON — The United States on Thursday hailed a move by Pakistan toward normalizing trade relations with India, saying it is a "very, very big deal" that could open up great economic opportunities.
Pakistani Information Minister Firdous Ashiq Awan said in Islamabad on Wednesday that the federal cabinet had unanimously approved India as a most-favored nation (MFN).
However, US officials said they understood that the Pakistani cabinet had approved a negotiated path to reach MFN -- a move they still described as a major development.
"We don't yet have most-favored nation status," State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland told reporters.
"We have a decision unanimously approved by the Pakistani cabinet to open a path for full normalization of trade relations with India" as the commerce ministers of both countries agreed in Delhi in September, Nuland said.
"This is a very, very big deal, very important, could lead to really great economic opportunities for both India and Pakistan," Nuland said.
It "sets the kind of example" that other countries in South and Central Asia should follow toward building an integrated regional economy that Washington has pushed under its "New Silk Road" project, she said.
Washington has sought to put Afghanistan at the center of such a project in a bid to ensure the war-torn nation becomes peaceful and prosperous in the long term.
"We would like to see the opening of trade relations because this will bring prosperity to everybody, break down old barriers," Nuland said.
"We really applaud Pakistan and India for taking this concrete step to improve their relations. It's the most tangible thing that they've done yet," she said.
"And our hope is that the process of normalization in both directions, including getting eventually to full MFN, continues and that there is a reduction in non-tariff barriers by India," she added.
The United States has long sought to defuse tensions between India and Pakistan, both nuclear armed nations that have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947.