LCA News and Discussions

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Jul 2012 17:00

SaiK wrote:how did the canopy appeared? dual seat?

Saw it from below - it went directly overhead between trees.

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 02 Jul 2012 17:50

shiv wrote:Saw a yellow primer painted LCA take off today? Which one is yellow? NLCA is grey innit?

It was LSP 7 which was not painted and it flew in yellow primer in her first flight. Could be 7 no?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 02 Jul 2012 17:55

Kakarat wrote:Does anybody now if Tejas has at least flown with BVR and unguided rockets? Something similar to captive trials

it did the unguided rocket bit during earlier trials at the range in Karnataka. May have done again recently but there is no news about what armaments were fired.

The R-73 was fired long back. So I think the R 77 should not be a problem? No news of Derby so far.

arijitkm · Post by **arijitkm** » 02 Jul 2012 19:47

Kakarat wrote:Does anybody now if Tejas has at least flown with BVR and unguided rockets? Something similar to captive trials

Bvr Missile Tests soon from Tejas

Source close to http://www.lca-tejas.org , have confirmed that Recent Weapons Trials carried out in Pokhran field firing ranges in in the western desert state of Rajasthan ,have been successful and LSP 2 ,3 and 5 , will soon head to Goa for Maritime trials soon , which will also likely include first test firing of beyond-visual-range missile, which will be either the Rafael Derby or the Vympel R-77.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jul 2012 21:36

srai, Has the IAF shown toss bombing? Or is it too risky for a demo with audience?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Jul 2012 22:11

rajanb wrote:
Kakarat wrote:Does anybody now if Tejas has at least flown with BVR and unguided rockets? Something similar to captive trials
it did the unguided rocket bit during earlier trials at the range in Karnataka. May have done again recently but there is no news about what armaments were fired.

The R-73 was fired long back. So I think the R 77 should not be a problem? No news of Derby so far.

R-73 and R-77 are completely different missiles..the R-73 being a WVR missile that has nearly BVR range. The R-77 and Derby, both being active guided require a radar on board the platform that fires it to give it the coordinates of the target initially till its onboard seeker acquires the target on its own.

I've not heard of the unguided rocket firing before..any links or articles to back that up?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 02 Jul 2012 23:42

K guru - WVR firing also involves a significant fire control component no? I was thinking that the radar picks up a bunch of targets and the one chosen will be relayed by the fire control computer(if at all that exists)to the missile and it will basically track that target. IF this is true then the same actually will hold true for BVR missiles too right?

disclaimer : I know nothing about how target cueing works, am an armchair chaprasi

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2012 00:19

r73 is a heat seeker.

are we planning to test them via off-boresight too.. HMS ready?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 03 Jul 2012 00:29

R73 is a heat seeker(agreed) but which target to chase has to be fed to it no ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2012 00:53

The active primary locker need not necessarily be an FCR, from my understanding for this type of system. The gray area of course is the fusion feed from both FCR and OLS/IRST.. where I would see a merge of your thought.

Now, it is up to the breperts to enlighten.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 03 Jul 2012 08:20

suryag wrote:K guru - WVR firing also involves a significant fire control component no? I was thinking that the radar picks up a bunch of targets and the one chosen will be relayed by the fire control computer(if at all that exists)to the missile and it will basically track that target. IF this is true then the same actually will hold true for BVR missiles too right?

disclaimer : I know nothing about how target cueing works, am an armchair chaprasi

I'm no guru, but R-73 type WVR missiles can be cued even by a HMS/HMDS or..an IR/IIR even by pointing the airplane at the general direction of the target and letting the onboard seeker acquire the target itself- that's how an airplane without a radar/IRST or HMD (such as the Jaguar) can still carry self-defence WVR missiles and use them to down others. Optical seekers such as an IRST (like on the MiG-29) can also provide the target data- and all this can be done since the seeker only needs to be pointed in the right direction and once it acquires the target (which is indicated by a loud constant tone in the pilot's helmet), it can be fired.

K_Rohit · Post by **K_Rohit** » 03 Jul 2012 09:32

^^^ all this talk about bvr missiles, but no talk of gun firing yet.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2012 09:40

good point, could give rise to nasty structural and fume ingestion issue that need long times to fix compared to any SW / RF glitches in the missile firing.

has a real gun been fitted yet and tried out in static ground firing from the Tejas?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 03 Jul 2012 10:05

@Kartik & SuryaG
Thanks for the clarification and the knowledge.

I know Air Cmde Harish testfired the R-73. There is a video on an archived thread about it. I remember seeing another video of the LCA firing unguided rockets. (Have a bad memory). At the range in KTKA.

In any case, since then there have been, as per my chaiwallah, significant changes made to the innards of the LCA. So that is why they are trying out all the tests again.

If any Guru can respond, will the trials be repeated again when the AoA has been increased? or maybe it has been increased and mum is the word? Also, I do not think they have fired the R 73 (pardon my ignorance) at a target? Just fired it to study its launch charecteristics on firing from the LCA? TIA

SuryaG, if you are an armchair chaprasi I am an armchair deputy chaprasi.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 04 Jul 2012 01:46

Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 1911 Test Flights successfully. (02-July-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-348,LSP1-74,LSP2-226,PV5-36,LSP3-63,LSP4-56,LSP5-98,LSP7-4,NP1-4)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1904 Test Flights successfully. (27-June-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-348,LSP1-74,LSP2-223,PV5-36,LSP3-63,LSP4-56,LSP5-95,LSP7-3,NP1-4)

Rajanb sir both can enjoy BDs on account of our chaprasi status

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 04 Jul 2012 10:32

So LSP2 and 5 are busy distributing explosive mithai and nice to see the 7 beginning to do more flights.

I hope they stop at LSP7 and switch to SP1.

Passes SuryaG a designer BD.

maitya · Post by **maitya** » 04 Jul 2012 11:02

Kartik wrote:
suryag wrote:K guru - WVR firing also involves a significant fire control component no? I was thinking that the radar picks up a bunch of targets and the one chosen will be relayed by the fire control computer(if at all that exists)to the missile and it will basically track that target. IF this is true then the same actually will hold true for BVR missiles too right?

disclaimer : I know nothing about how target cueing works, am an armchair chaprasi
I'm no guru, but R-73 type WVR missiles can be cued even by a HMS/HMDS or..an IR/IIR even by pointing the airplane at the general direction of the target and letting the onboard seeker acquire the target itself- that's how an airplane without a radar/IRST or HMD (such as the Jaguar) can still carry self-defence WVR missiles and use them to down others. Optical seekers such as an IRST (like on the MiG-29) can also provide the target data- and all this can be done since the seeker only needs to be pointed in the right direction and once it acquires the target (which is indicated by a loud constant tone in the pilot's helmet), it can be fired.

Kartik, aerodynamically what is the diff between launching a BVR missile and that of a dumb-bomb/external store?

I can understand the rail launch related aerodynamic launch-complexities of a WVR missile but what is it for a R-77/Derby/AMRAAM etc kind of BVR missiles.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 04 Jul 2012 11:54

lots of mithai distribution ----- can an ac make 7 flights in a day??

LCA-Tejas has completed 1925 Test Flights successfully. (03-July-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-348,LSP1-74,LSP2-230,PV5-36,LSP3-70,LSP4-56,LSP5-101,LSP7-4,NP1-4)

from

LCA-Tejas has completed 1911 Test Flights successfully. (02-July-2012).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-348,LSP1-74,LSP2-226,PV5-36,LSP3-63,LSP4-56,LSP5-98,LSP7-4,NP1-4)

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 04 Jul 2012 12:10

suryag wrote:lots of mithai distribution ----- can an ac make 7 flights in a day??

Wow, so the sea trials have started and are packing some punch, I believe!

Will · Post by **Will** » 04 Jul 2012 12:58

Has the radar been integrated?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 04 Jul 2012 13:14

Besides the above, which will answer a questions posed today, I remember reading about static gun firing while mounted on the Tejas.

SuryaG, I think the # of flights escalating is an indication of the final testing, the turn around time, and the capability of the LCA to do multiple sorties.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jul 2012 15:37

perhaps the turn around time and swing role payload/mission planning itself is being tested now!

we have the vaporware claims of the Gripen-NG to compete with

"the bar is indeed very high" said the booming Thor god from the heavens.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Jul 2012 17:32

a side lobe aesa antenna panel for mk.2 would actually clean up certain bars.

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 04 Jul 2012 18:02

cross referencing from lch thread
http://www.defencenow.com/news/754/hals ... -nadu.html

can we use the helmet mounted targeting system for tejas? or its already used?

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Jul 2012 01:18

LCA's gun port is under the starboard engine behind the engine inlet; very unlikely that fumes from the muzzle will get ingested by the engine.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Jul 2012 10:14

http://www.rtbot.net/GSh-23
never knew it is dual purpose gun.. dispense the chaff & flare counter measures too.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 05 Jul 2012 10:38

SaiK wrote:http://www.rtbot.net/GSh-23
never knew it is dual purpose gun.. dispense the chaff & flare counter measures too.

And they have used it in flight to test the chaff dispensing.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Jul 2012 17:17

not sure if that is the L model, somebody can check specs. but it would be safe to assume a model that uses the CMDS, as we would not have gone on a separate system if one is available in one unit. of course, jmt.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 05 Jul 2012 18:01

SaiK wrote:http://www.rtbot.net/GSh-23
never knew it is dual purpose gun.. dispense the chaff & flare counter measures too.

SaiK,

It mentions the Tejas on this page.

Besides, while watching the video on Teajs weapons trials they have a clip of CMDS on it and it seemed to be coming from that gun. Not sure though.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 05 Jul 2012 20:50

Hopefully they will test a few R73/R77 this time against a real target and release footage. I think at this point even with R73 this is pretty ready to rock and roll in IAF.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 05 Jul 2012 21:00

rajanb wrote:
SaiK wrote:http://www.rtbot.net/GSh-23
never knew it is dual purpose gun.. dispense the chaff & flare counter measures too.
SaiK,

It mentions the Tejas on this page.

Besides, while watching the video on Teajs weapons trials they have a clip of CMDS on it and it seemed to be coming from that gun. Not sure though.

I'm sure that the GSh-23 gun is not used for dispensing chaff and flares on the Tejas- there are special dispensers that are used.

youtube link

Go to the 0:18 part of the video and you'll find that the flare is being released way aft of the GSh-23 mounting. No chance that its being used for flare dispensing.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 05 Jul 2012 21:47

Generally the sortie turn around time on ground is one-three hours(half hour claimed for F-22 which i doubt), it is indeed heartening to see teju flying seven sorties in a day(if that info is accurate), it means remarkable turnaround time. If this turnaround time is consistent the forces should be very happy, also it shows that the ground crew was well trained to manage that sortie rate/day, keep going bravehearts

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 05 Jul 2012 22:01

i think teh article only claimed that capability for the rear mounted units on the il76, etc.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 05 Jul 2012 22:43

Lalmohan wrote:i think teh article only claimed that capability for the rear mounted units on the il76, etc.

that seems to make sense..since the rear mounted units would fire flares behind the aircraft, which is where the flares being fired makes sense..it seems absurd to fire chaff or flares AHEAD of the fighter only to find the airplane itself heading in the same path and that of the missile.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Jul 2012 23:51

rear is anyway radiating heat, and obvious place to dispense for misguiding heat seekers.

another important component to integrate would be MAWS.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 08 Jul 2012 00:53

How good is the LCA?

I understand that it has a double anhedral twisted hammered down cranked wing. (mouthful, that)

Which means thats its aerodynamic performance....when fully developed, should match the Mirage 2000s currently (maybe slightly better)

Hence to imagine how cool the LCA will ultimately look in airshows and dogfights, one can watch current Mirage 2000 airshow videos on youtube?

Is that right??

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jul 2012 03:16

I think any answer for you here would become OT. BTW, if you wanted a name, please go back pages, and someone would have said "kat without chappals". I think that is cool look you are wanting.

And, IAF would have least concern for your looks and feels, but definitely for your safety from enemies.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 08 Jul 2012 09:41

LCA Navy Flies, Landing Gear Up - Livefist

India's LCA Navy prototype has flown three more times since its first flight on April 27, the last one with its landing gear retracted for the full duration of flight.

The LCA's landing gear, as is well known, has been a problem that has delayed the debut flight, with scientists continuing to work on it. The ADA has in fact set up a specific technological committee to sort out issues with the landing gear.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 09 Jul 2012 00:11

^^^

cool vool kuch nahin.

I want to know how the LCA flies ultimately....airshow style...total 9G envelope opened. I think it will match the best Mirage 2000 flights that I have seen on youtube.

Right now it flies like a nimble 747 IMO

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 09 Jul 2012 00:15

Then you haven't watched many LCA videos