Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Asha

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Baikul
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Baikul »

RajeshA wrote:.........
Let's consider a scenario where India enters into an undeclared war with Pakistan on the LoC. ..........

As India develops and procures better surveillance systems, artillery guidance systems, guns with more firepower, India would have the initiative in hand to push back Pakistani forces from the LoC as and when we like to. .......

No position on the Pakistani side up to 30 kms from LoC should be secure for more than a week of setting it up. Any Pakistanis manning those positions are either sent to get their 72s or have to retire with injuries and wail over their depreciating pensions.
.....
With terrorism they retain the psychological pressure on Indians. With regular artillery-firing across the LoC, destroying their positions and bunkers, we regain the psychological advantage.


I was thinking along the same lines. From a military tactics perspective, I see two possibilities:

One, the next evolution in Pakistani military 'brilliance' could well be much greater (compared to before) tactical aggression on the LOC, dominating that border but ensuring that the violence does not escalate into general war. If it hasn't already happened, there could be a series of intensifying local actions supported by new tactics, teams, weapons and technology. Possibly the strategists in the PA may believe that their experiences on their Western border gives them that ability.

Two, Even if the above is not the case, and this incident was a one-off, is there now an obvious need to significantly enhance IA's capability to dominate the LOC in tactical actions, both as a natural progression in our military capability and also to ensure that we can respond punitively and overwhelmingly so they don't dare do it again?

Which leads me to my questions in general (assuming of course that the IA has considerable tactical expertise of its own): If at all this is relevant, What new weapons, techniques and tactics does IA need to significantly enhance its tactical capabilities on the border? Drones? More arty? New teams? Is there already a separate thread on BR that discusses this?
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by ramana »

Baikul, We have a whole forum to discuss that aspect. However Mr Clean AK Anthony will not allow any purchases in case that destabilizes the TSPA, He is the Minister of Defence or rather Minster to perpetuate Weakness.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by putnanja »

Army has 'definite plan' to avenge brutal LoC killings: Lt Gen Parnaik
The Indian Army has a "definite plan" to avenge the brutal killing of two soldiers by Pakistani troops, Lt General KT Parnaik declared on Tuesday. "We have definite plans to retaliate but not in haste and anger, and at the time and place of our own choice," the head of the Northern Command told the media.
...
...
General Parnaik said there was a lot of anger among army units after the Pakistani troops killed two Indian soldiers Jan 8 in Jammu and Kashmir, beheading one of them and mutilating the body of another.

The raiders, who Indian officials say were from the Pakistan Army, took away the head of the soldier.

"But I pacified them (Indian soldiers)," he said.
...
...
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Baikul »

ramana wrote:Baikul, We have a whole forum to discuss that aspect. However Mr Clean AK Anthony will not allow any purchases in case that destabilizes the TSPA, He is the Minister of Defence or rather Minster to perpetuate Weakness.
Ramana, I am not sure whether this issue (tactics on the LOC) now needs to be looked at in isolation, and not across several threads. Anyhoo, I'm not an expert.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by putnanja »

Today's editorial in the Hindu ...

Stop baying for blood
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by JohnTitor »

vasu raya wrote:Ceasefire Violations
Terming the killing of Indian soldiers and decapitating one of them by Pakistani Army as 'barbaric', Lt General Parnaik added, "On January 8, Pakistan breached the LoC on Mendhar sector, in a very barbaric act and mutilated our soldiers. It violates the Geneva Convention and violates the ceasefire agreement. My heart goes out to the families of these two soldiers."
He also said that Pakistan was continuously violating ceasefire and stopped only after warnings from India. "We had the meeting on January 14, on the night of Jan 13 and 14 they fired motors. We spoke to them on the hotline, we asked them that when they have agreed for a meeting, why were they violating the ceasefire. We told them we are recording all of this, their firing stopped then," Lt Gen Parnaik said.
Need of the hour could be surveillance drones watching the soldiers back followed by bombing drones serving as reinforcements in quick time.
Wrong! Need of the hour is leaders with balls. Our leaders are so old, their balls have shriveled up!

Believe it or not, the above isn't too far from the truth. As men age, testosterone & metabolism decrease. Apart from being a sex harmone, testosterone makes one more "male"(energy, vigour etc).
A 2009 study of 25 male subjects found that men with artificially raised testosterone were 27% less generous while playing a test game than they were at their normal testosterone level. The authors concluded that "What we have found is that Testosterone appears to play a role inducing men to change from being selfless to being selfish."
After the age of 30, production decreases 1% pa. At 60, the level is about half that when one is 30!

Apologies for going off-topic, but there is an important point to this. One can clearly see Maunmohan singh is so tired, he can barely carry his weight, let alone rule the nation. The lethargy also evokes certain reactions in your opponent (person sitting on the other side of the negotiating table) and tends one to develop the attitude of "chaltha hai" or "can't be bothered". One goes to the negotiating table (be it trade, war or any other meeting) with as much firepower as one can have to get a good deal. Body language is one of them. Infact, the POTUS is coached and trained in these areas.

Frankly, I am disappointing at the way the army has handled this. Just look at this, both very deceptively titled by the media:

Fight Pakistan fire with fire, Indian Army chief orders commanders on LoC
"I expect all my commanders on the LoC to be aggressive and offensive in face of provocation and fire...No passivity is expected from them. Their response has to be measured and for effect," said a tough-talking General Bikram Singh, a day ahead of Army Day celebrations.
expect? Not sure if this is unintentional, but there is a major difference between "we will retaliate" and "I expect commanders..". The first is a certainty, whereas the (supposedly) second leaves it upto the lower ranks to make that decision - What this indirectly tells the other side is that the higher ranks won't make the hard decision of firing back!
More recently, two jawans were decapitated during the turnover between the 19 Rajput and 20 Kumaon Regiments in the Keran sector in July, 2011. "We have to put pressure on Pakistan, nationally and internationally, to make its Army accountable," said Gen Singh.
Seriously?? Now a general is saying we should go to the UN when his men are dying on the field? WOW!
Although Gen Singh emphasized the current tension would not escalate into a conflagration, holding that several stages have to be crossed before the two countries go to a full-scale war, he did admit the first stage of the spiral had been reached.
HAH! There! Thats the same as saying "you can do whatever you want, but we wont nuke you.. just fire some crackers to let you know we've got them too!

And then theres this one..

India won't remain passive if attacked: Army chief
Talking tough, he said the killing of two Indian soldiers on the LoC in Mendhar area of Jammu and Kashmir on January 6 was a pre-planned and pre-meditated action by Pakistani troops and India reserves the right to retaliate at "time and place of its choice".
time & place of its choice?? who is "it"?? Maunmohan singh?
"Our teams should be balanced to take on the onslaught of the enemy," the Army chief said.

Putting the onus of maintaining the ceasefire on Pakistan, the Army chief said India will uphold it as long as the "adversary" does.

He applauded the Indian Army Commanders at the LoC, saying they did a "great job". Gen Singh discounted the possibility of the skirmish leading to a full-fledged war and was dismissive of Pakistan's nuclear blackmail, saying it had no relation to the local conflict. "Indicators does not show upping the ante," he said.

On any response to the Pakistani action, he said it has to be the decision of the government.
Balanced?? whats he talking about? Yes.. it wont lead to a nuke war cause gen singh won't command them to bomb the pukes' locations.

All these messages reinforce the general image that the pukes have. The leaders are ball-less and the army isn't going to retaliate.

Now I'm not sure if the army is holding back BECAUSE of the politicos but if that is the case, they shouldn't be giving press conferences using such meek language. If they HAVE to provide a press conference, they should just saying something along the lines of "we are ready to do what is necessary to protect our borders and our people but we cannot do so without political authorisation" - this throws the ball back into the ball-less politicos who would then be blamed (though that doesn't really make a difference these days) for the lack of action.

The last line in that article says it is upto the politicos.. if thats the case, everything else he said has no value!
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by ramana »

MediaCrooks points out that some Paki "journalist" Wahajat Khan, had tweeted before the Chindu article by Swami, implying that the latter got his info on the grandmother's tale from Paki sources. This is even worse than I thought.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by krithivas »

Hindu editorial is brow-beating India to continue bearing the pain of a low grade murders because some imaginary number have been miraculously saved because of this mythical peace process.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Altair »

ramana wrote:MediaCrooks points out that some Paki "journalist" Wahajat Khan, had tweeted before the Chindu article by Swami, implying that the latter got his info on the grandmother's tale from Paki sources. This is even worse than I thought.
This is like Iranians/NoKo'ns printing Onion news.. Is it time to renew NSN??BRF Copyrighted

How have they fallen to such lows!!
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by member_22872 »

MediaCrooks points out that some Paki "journalist" Wahajat Khan, had tweeted before the Chindu article by Swami, implying that the latter got his info on the grandmother's tale from Paki sources. This is even worse than I thought.
ramana garu, that's what I thought too, the reason is, our army guys having denied that and issued a statements saying that any crossing of an old woman took place in 2011 but not 2012, cant be his sources. Secondly the old woman too is not his source, because she already left for TSP so there is no way he could have talked to sitting in India. so who else could be his source? I thought his sources are TSPA.
Last edited by member_22872 on 16 Jan 2013 01:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by ramana »

putnanja wrote:Today's editorial in the Hindu ...

Stop baying for blood

Lets analyse what the Hindu is saying for it represents the acem of WKKs under US influence:
“After this dastardly act,” Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said on Tuesday, “there can’t be business as usual with Pakistan.” Dr. Singh’s tired words — and his government's dreadful decision to postpone the start of visa-free travel to India by senior citizens from Pakistan suggest the relentless political attacks on his Pakistan policy are taking a toll. This is not good news. It is entirely true that the beheading of Indian soldiers on the Line of Control was a despicable act that must be condemned. It must also be candidly admitted, though, that Pakistan has not had a monopoly of wrong-doing in this case. :eek: {Equal=Equal} It was only in March that Defence Minister A.K. Antony informed Parliament of Indian protests against Pakistani construction along the Line of Control. Now, no less than India’s Chief of Army Staff Bikram Singh has confirmed reports in The Hindu that India, too, was doing exactly the same thing. It is pointless to ask who cast the first stone. The need now is to strengthen the restraint regime on the LoC. Few spectacles have been as unedifying as the contemptible baying of warmongers these past days — most of it, it bears mention, emanating from TV studios located at a safe distance from the nearest bullet. {Inst Chindu located in Chennai which is not exactly a war zone?}It is hard not to contrast Bharatiya Janata Party leader Sushma Swaraj’s ugly calls for 10 Pakistani soldiers to be beheaded in retaliation with the studied restraint of General Singh. No one who has seen war casually calls for the blood of soldiers to be shed — or believes they can predict, with any certainty, what the consequences of war will be.

Four propositions must be clearly understood. First, ever since General Parvez Ashfaq Kayani took office as Pakistan’s army chief in November 2007, his covert services and armed forces have engaged in a carefully calibrated escalation of hostilities — hoping to roll back the détente initiated in 2003, but also seeking not to invite international condemnation. Second, India has few military options to address this situation. The potential costs of war, and the risk of nuclear confrontation, far outweigh those of the low-grade conflict India now faces. India has covert and conventional means at its disposal which have been exercised — and could be exercised to greater effect. However, precipitating a crisis serves the interests of Pakistan’s generals — not Indians. Third, denying visas to elderly Pakistanis or stopping hockey players from participating in Indian tournaments will not make our borders or our civilians safer. This is the behaviour of a spoilt child, not a strategic actor. :(( Fourth, real gains have been made since 2003, not the least a ceasefire and de-intensification of cross-border terrorism which has saved the lives of thousands of Indian soldiers. Nothing ought to be done to jeopardise this. Not every malaise has a cure; some can only be managed better or worse, and certainly not through indiscriminate blood-letting. India’s relationship with Pakistan is one of them.

I think the Aman ka Tamasha in which massa has invested heavily is eroding and the attack dogs are trying to shame the nationalists.

BTW Will counter each of the points in a little time.
He is full of himself and is talking down to the people.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Baikul »

Reports coming of another PA soldier killed. I don't have a link so far.

Edit: Here it is: http://dawn.com/2013/01/16/indian-firin ... hmir-ispr/
Last edited by Baikul on 16 Jan 2013 01:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Altair »

Baikul wrote:Reports coming of another PA solider killed. I don't have a link so far.
Anything less than Shock&Awe HD(1920x1080) video capture of missiles hitting Muridke and HS's expression on record is a complete and utter failure.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by member_22938 »

can not agree more with the fellow bloggers media did not put the earlier two brutalities in the news for a long time as they say now AMan ki asha is now Aman ki Tamaasha..
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by ramana »

Altair, All those will give momentary satisfaction. The real goal should be break-up of the miliary jihadi state of TSP.

TSPA is the glue that holds the sorry state together. A overt defeat will unleash the forces of separation.
We can't buy the US line of state stability.
A stable terrorist state is a threat only to India.
Especially one that gets lifelines thrown by the US everytime.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by ramana »

About the Hindu Editorial and its four points on why India should keep taking the beheading from TSP.
Four propositions must be clearly understood.
OK bring it on.
First, ever since General Parvez Ashfaq Kayani took office as Pakistan’s army chief in November 2007, his covert services and armed forces have engaged in a carefully calibrated escalation of hostilities — hoping to roll back the détente initiated in 2003, but also seeking not to invite international condemnation.
Gen Do Nothing has been trying to escalate against India hoping to rally the many divisive forces inside TSP. It is not to roll back the so called "detente" which was established due to, the much reviled even by the Hindu, Operation Parakaram. TSP promised not to send terrorists and India promised not to invade them.
Second, India has few military options to address this situation. The potential costs of war, and the risk of nuclear confrontation, far outweigh those of the low-grade conflict India now faces. India has covert and conventional means at its disposal which have been exercised — and could be exercised to greater effect. However, precipitating a crisis serves the interests of Pakistan’s generals — not Indians.
Not true. India has a whole gamut of military options from local conflict, attrition war, to naval embargo among others, which do not cross the so called TSP nuke redlines. Its only shrill commentators working for US & TSP interests that raise the bogey of nuke crisis everytime in order to scare India into submission. The mentality is better to be alive as a slave and take the beatings than to fighting for what is right. Its contrary to the national motto of "Satyameva Jayate" :Truth is victorious.
Third, denying visas to elderly Pakistanis or stopping hockey players from participating in Indian tournaments will not make our borders or our civilians safer. This is the behaviour of a spoilt child, not a strategic actor.
The US boycotted the 1980 Moscow Olympics to show their anger at the FSU invasion of Afghanistan. The reason is it is duplitious to engage in sports and frivoulous activity while you are at state of undeclared war. More over it demoralises your fighting forces.

Fourth, real gains have been made since 2003, not the least a ceasefire and de-intensification of cross-border terrorism which has saved the lives of thousands of Indian soldiers. Nothing ought to be done to jeopardise this.

It is not the ceassefire that led to the de-intensification of cross-border terrorism but the very real threat of repeat of Operation Parakram that would finish TSP once and for all.

It was the constant disarming of the Indian armed forces by delayed procurements and constant cancellation of deals in pipeline which have reduced military readiness that have inspired TSP to break the ceasefire repeatedly as the statistics show over the last few years.

Further the promotion of fifth columnists in the media and civil society who peddle TSP propoganda like grandmother's tales gives aid and comfort to the TSP hardliners in and out of uniform.
Not every malaise has a cure; some can only be managed better or worse, and certainly not through indiscriminate blood-letting. India’s relationship with Pakistan is one of them.
India's relationship with TSP is not a malaise without a cure. The cure is to show and provide more than disproportionate retaliation like Operation Parakram to convince the TSP they cannot indulge in terrorism as a political tool.

And turn inwards. It was the massive mobilzation of Operation Parakram that turned the jihadi wave inwards into TSP and made them introspect and come to terms with the monster they have raised.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by RamaY »

We have different kinds of RNIs who preach others

- Peace at any cost
- secularism at any cost
- Minority appeasement at any cost
- caste/regional politics at any cost

All these guys are fake Indians. There is nothing wrong in condemning them and calling them the names they deserve.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Virupaksha »

Third, denying visas to elderly Pakistanis or stopping hockey players from participating in Indian tournaments will not make our borders or our civilians safer. This is the behaviour of a spoilt child, not a strategic actor.
The US boycotted the 1980 Moscow Olympics to show their anger at the FSU invasion of Afghanistan. The reason is it is duplitious to engage in sports and frivoulous activity while you are at state of undeclared war. More over it demoralises your fighting forces.
Similarly India led the world in boycott of the South Africans for their apartheid. It shows up the moral bankruptcy of the boycotted country for every one to see. That particular boycott ate at the roots of the white racist moral supremacy which they believed they had.

The problem with the intellectually sold out RNIs is they believe that it is India which is morally bankrupt, not Pakistan. Thus the question of intellectually questioning Pakistan's morality does not arise as they dont believe that India has such a right.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by ramana »

Thats true and more apt example of why should states boycott their challengers.

At same time I wanted to give the US example for the Hindu for they hold US in very high regard.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Prem Kumar »

ramana wrote:MediaCrooks points out that some Paki "journalist" Wahajat Khan, had tweeted before the Chindu article by Swami, implying that the latter got his info on the grandmother's tale from Paki sources. This is even worse than I thought.
Ramana: check out this Tweet that MediaCrooks is probably referring to

https://twitter.com/WajSKhan/status/289112264332693504

On Jan 9th, this is what Wajahat Khan says
Wajahat S. Khan: @SunjayJK You're very kind, mate. Watch out for a narrative changer tomorrow in an Indian newspaper @thenewshour @BDUTT @najamsethi
Next day, Praveen Swami's grandmother article in the Chindu!!
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by ramana »

Prem, There is book called "Blur" which deals with how to sift various news sources and come to the actual events. Suggest reading it.
Its possible that Swami and W. Khan got info at same time from some other manipulators. And very significant that Hindu is the outlet.


If I was a dilli billi I would look into the common source of this tale.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by krithivas »

Indian Express doing a Hindu now -
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/above ... n/1059964/
This dialogue with Pakistan’s civilian leadership is one of the big achievements of the UPA and therefore it is more the pity that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Zardari have failed to sustain the momentum in the last couple of relatively eventless years
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Prem »

Eighteen Got the Hoors Waiting
Pakistan is islam ,best product of Deen
KHYBER AGENCY: Eighteen bullet-riddled bodies have been recovered from the Alamgudar area of Bara Tehsil in Khyber Agency, local and tribal sources said.
The identity of the bodies is still unclear as officials have yet to confirm their exact number.
Intelligence sources told Dawn.Com that 18 bodies are lying in the area, including four Khasadars who were kidnapped by militants, one security personnel and a number of peace committee members.
“It seems the militants shot them dead and left their bodies there,” intelligence sources informed.
Local tribesmen say the dead include seven members of a family who had been shot to death.Security and administration officials on contact said though they had also heard about the dead bodies, they do not have any further details.
Last edited by Prem on 16 Jan 2013 04:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Prem »

ramana wrote:MediaCrooks points out that some Paki "journalist" Wahajat Khan, had tweeted before the Chindu article by Swami, implying that the latter got his info on the grandmother's tale from Paki sources. This is even worse than I thought.
Well this Wahjat Khaan was able cross Wagha promptly to drive to NDTV studio as guest of Burka right after the news came out about the mutilation of IA soldier by Paki Terrorist Army . It is very obvious that this Khan had connection within Dilli Circus.
Time again to investigate how many in Media are on Paki Payroll.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Anujan »

^^^
Meanwhile, the fellow is boasting about his "Indian conquests" on twitter. Also isnt he the same buffoon who interviewed Javed Akhtar and tried to tell Javed Akhtar why he was being oppressed in India (and got a nice whipping from Javed Akhtar in return)?

BTW Apparently most ceasefire violations and infiltration attempts is in the Poonch sector. Serves us right, because guess why Pakis occupy Haji Pir pass in that sector today? :evil:
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Prem »

As i mentioned earlier , Poaqs have Haji Pir courtesy late PM Shastri. Ajoob begged for it in Tashkent and Shastri under pressure from SU returned it in 65.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Anujan »

Even after that, people come up with ideas like "How about we return Siachen for peace in South Asia?"
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by SSridhar »

Immediately after the Jan 6 incident, the US, followed by PRC advised calm. By that time, nobody in India was aware of the magnitude of the events or what was to come. Newspapers like the China-supporting The Hindu and other US supporting ones have now come out strongly against 'baying for Pakistani blood'. Columnists who have connections with the US think tanks have been spreading calumny about Indian Army. The US stooge, Mr. Man Mohan Singh and his INC, are trying desperately to put a lid on the whole indignity heaped on the entire nation through the beheading and mutilation of two of India's bravesthearts.

US & PRC are together in this game. there is a quid-pro-quo between them.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by abhishek_sharma »

>> US & PRC are together in this game. there is a quid-pro-quo between them.

Yes, but why would they do so? Surely China is a bigger enemy for US than India. Weakening India and increasing the relative power of China does not make sense for US.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by disha »

abhishek_sharma wrote:>> US & PRC are together in this game. there is a quid-pro-quo between them.

Yes, but why would they do so? Surely China is a bigger enemy for US than India. Weakening India and increasing the relative power of China does not make sense for US.
The great game. China and US want the CAR between them. Bin Laden was a game gone wrong., actually he must have realized that he is a pawn in the game and so are the sickulars.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by disha »

^^^ when did Gadkari said what the above column has purported that he has said?
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by disha »

krithivas wrote:Indian Express doing a Hindu now -
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/above ... n/1059964/
This dialogue with Pakistan’s civilian leadership is one of the big achievements of the UPA and therefore it is more the pity that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Zardari have failed to sustain the momentum in the last couple of relatively eventless years
^ Yes they have failed and now should be fired.
disha
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by disha »

RamaY wrote:We have different kinds of RNIs who preach others

- Peace at any cost
- secularism at any cost
- Minority appeasement at any cost
- caste/regional politics at any cost

All these guys are fake Indians. There is nothing wrong in condemning them and calling them the names they deserve.
And we have a party and a family (a mafia paterfamilias!) which believes in power at any cost! And they are led by an italian!
SSridhar
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by SSridhar »

abhishek_sharma wrote:>> US & PRC are together in this game. there is a quid-pro-quo between them.

Yes, but why would they do so? Surely China is a bigger enemy for US than India. Weakening India and increasing the relative power of China does not make sense for US.
I would say Afghanistan.

The US is extremely tactically focussed, has always been. It needs to exit Afghanistan without being labelled as a 'defeated' nation. It wants its honour to be protected. It wants to avoid bloodshed in the remaining two years. It wants to protect the rear of its exiting troops till the last man/woman was out. It wants a face-saving agreement, even if only on paper, that would be used as the reason for handing power back to the Taliban (even if it were only part of a coalition). It wants the Taliban to come to some agreement with the help of Pakistan.

Greedy China wants to gobble up the resources of Afghanistan. It would also like India to be out of that country. The Trans Karakoram Railroad can be used to ferry copper & iron ore and other riches from Afghanistan to the ever hungry Mainland. They would like therefore to extend their sphere of influence to Kabul. PRC expects to fulfil the vacuum left by the exit of the US. Already, TSP has advised Kabul to switch to Renminbi rather than USD for trade.

The two countries have a joint interest in the Af-Pak region, though for entirely different reasons.
abhishek_sharma
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Okay. Dhanyawaad.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by RamaY »

I wonder why India gets a bunch of Harops and specifically use them to takeout the terrorist leadership?

What can Pakis do, start a nuke war for non state actors?
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by Aditya_V »

SunnyK wrote:can not agree more with the fellow bloggers media did not put the earlier two brutalities in the news for a long time as they say now AMan ki asha is now Aman ki Tamaasha..
:oops: :oops:

when I started this thread many were questioning whether GOI and Media will to the extent of Hiding this for Aman ki Tamasha.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by SSridhar »

I was just reading Gen. Shankar Roychowdhry's book, "Officially at Peace". he mentions about how LeT captured an Officer and his group of riflemen, tortured them done to death an all mutilated. That was in 1994-1995 timeframe. I am sure that many such incidents have happened but never reported. We are aware of just a few such incidents.

He says that he personally visited the unit and spoke to them. He writes (p. 47): It was now up to the battalion to respond to the loss of their comrades and desecration of their bodies by going after the gang responsible and eliminating them from the face of the earth - their izzat and that of the battalion demanded this. The troops nodded grimly. The job would be done, and the results of subsequent operations confirmed my belief in my men.
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Re: Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Ash

Post by RajeshA »

SSridhar wrote:I was just reading Gen. Shankar Roychowdhry's book, "Officially at Peace". he mentions about how LeT captured an Officer and his group of riflemen, tortured them done to death an all mutilated. That was in 1994-1995 timeframe. I am sure that many such incidents have happened but never reported. We are aware of just a few such incidents.

He says that he personally visited the unit and spoke to them. He writes (p. 47): It was now up to the battalion to respond to the loss of their comrades and desecration of their bodies by going after the gang responsible and eliminating them from the face of the earth - their izzat and that of the battalion demanded this. The troops nodded grimly. The job would be done, and the results of subsequent operations confirmed my belief in my men.
SSridhar garu,

It is one thing that our jawans avenged their fallen and mutilated comrades, but I think the military is handling this completely wrong. This needs to be published and that too in an engrossing narrative about how vengeance was extracted. It is important to beat the chest at bit in victory. The most important part of the vengeance is not that the perpetrators are dead in the end, but that their gory end gives a warning to others not to indulge in their ideological fantasies about killing Indians.

In Pakistan there is full blast of propaganda against Indians and how we are easy to push around. That gives all those newly recruited fighters the courage to go after Indians. By telling the story how we deal with aggressors, we would put terror into the minds of would-be terrorists and thus we would in fact be saving a lot of lives, lives of our jawans and our civilians. These stories need to be told - "anybody who goes against India faces sure death. Anybody sending jihadis against India is simply sacrificing other peoples' lives."

That message should be loud and clear. We are underplaying our achievements. That is the wrong way!
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