India-US Relations : News and Discussion

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 20 Sep 2014 05:55

Remember when a certain Mr Modi was visiting the US and he couldnt address the congress because there were election? Well remember, no more.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 20 Sep 2014 06:22

K P Nayar's take on the Richard Verma nomination:

Untold limits of ethnic assets-Tough task awaits Obama’s pick Verma

For the large body of Americans — both of Indian origin and others — who think of Washington’s engagement of New Delhi as potentially the most defining partnership of the new millennium, that is the least of their worries.

In extensive conversations with this newspaper today, many members of this large and august group with reputations and influence in Washington expressed disappointment that the choice of Verma had reduced the American embassy in India to a lame-duck mission even before the ambassador-designate had packed his bags to relocate to Chanakyapuri.

No one would comment on record for obvious reasons: indeed, as a concession to political correctness, congratulations are being showered on Verma. But behind the façade of such niceties, there is near-unanimity in Washington among those who work for improving relations with India that Obama’s sole reason in choosing Verma was that he is of Indian origin.

Sources familiar with high-level discussions in Washington related to diplomatic appointments said on background today that Obama had sounded out Rajiv Shah for the post in New Delhi. It is a glowing tribute to Shah’s humility that he felt the ambassador in New Delhi should be someone who can be equal and comparable to Modi in stature and clout in the US system if relations between India and America are to be returned to the heady days of the presidency of George W. Bush.

Besides, Shah, these sources said, felt that Obama had zeroed in on him only because he was a Gujarati. In any case, Roosevelt House may have been peanuts for someone who as global administrator of US aid programmes handles a budget of $2.6 billion and is a member of Obama’s cabinet.

From that vision for bilateral relations in Shah’s articulation, Obama’s final choice is an unbelievable comedown. Well-wishers of India in Washington are convinced that Verma, once he presents his credentials and settles down in New Delhi, will find that he cannot reach anyone in Washington higher than the deputy secretary of state, given his stature and his clout on the “beltway”, a geographical term used to refer to the power centres in Washington.

Once the Prime Minister’s office and the ministry of external affairs discover Verma’s limitations back home, they will simply bypass the embassy and deal directly with agencies in the US such as the Pentagon or the commerce department to get things done. That is when the embassy will be confirmed as a lame duck in the system.

But the bigger worry is that Obama’s raison d’etre — other than Verma’s ethnic “asset” — behind the appointment may be nullified by the mid-term Congressional elections in November.

Verma got into the running for the post in New Delhi because he was at one time a Congressional aide to Harry Reid, now the Senate majority leader, a post with immense leverage in the US political system. Reid has been critical to Obama’s agenda in his first presidential term.

The Republicans are expected to seize control of the Senate in the November elections: if that happens, Reid’s importance will decline. Inevitably, Verma’s star will also wane. Whatever little clout he may have now will disappear and his ability to leverage Capitol Hill for the benefit of Indo-US bonhomie will vanish by the time he is confirmed by the Senate.

One Washington insider said today that if Obama wanted to go beyond symbolic gestures and add gravitas to ties with India, he would have persuaded someone like Joe Lieberman, who was a heartbeat away from the presidency himself as a one-time vice-presidential candidate, to go to India. An appointment like that would have continued the great tradition of the tenancy of John Kenneth Galbraith or Daniel Patrick Moynihan in Roosevelt House.

Not only them, most of their successors were men who could pick up the phone and talk to the President if there was a crisis. Not Verma, alas, by any stretch.

With the nomination of Richard Verma as ambassador, BO has shown that he does not really understand India, and that he does not consider US-India relationship to be very important. With the master-slave relationship gone with the departure of MMS from office, BO is only going to get a transactional relationship with Modi at the helm in India.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 20 Sep 2014 07:01

SBajwa wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Verma

His father Kamal Verma taught English at University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown.

I wont be surprised if this fellow sold his soul to Yasoo to gain acceptance among the whites.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Sep 2014 07:16

ShreemanJi, good catch. I knew there something fishy when I read that disgustingly patronizing and condescending letter that John bone head wrote taking back Modi's invite.

KakkajiJi, this ambassador designate is certainly no heavy weight, but maybe the silver lining is that with him at the helm, instead of bombastic rhetoric like "natural allies" crap, business will be conducted silently, and that may not be such a bad thing for both India and US.

I may annoy many on this August forum in saying this, but the power disparity between India and US is so humongous, and then add on to that civilizational/racial/cultural differences, India & US can at best have a pragmatic business (or even a glorified transactional) relationship.

A relationship based on false premises, "natural allies" BS, is fraught with false promises and will lead to huge disappointments as we have seen in the treatment meted out to Devyani Khobragade etc.

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Sep 2014 07:28

Shreeman wrote:Remember when a certain Mr Modi was visiting the US and he couldnt address the congress because there were election? Well remember, no more.

So the US Congress claiming "unpredictability of the House schedule" had not invited our Prime Minister, Mr. Narender Modi, to address a Joint Session of the US Congress (No Congressional Address For Indian Prime Minister) but on the other hand had no such problems in making time for the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to Address a Joint Session Of the US Congress on September 18th.

US Cold War reflexes remain undimmed with screwing the Russians apparently being more favored than making nice to India. Trust our PMO and MEA will make note.

Anyway, great catch Shreeman as Indian media has yet to cotton onto this event.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 20 Sep 2014 07:35

^^Yawn. Who cares about congressional addresses? What benefit in any practical terms will it yield India?

I'd rather he spends longer meeting biz leaders, like the PRC honchos do (and they were never invited to address COTUS either).

As for 'em high powered meetings with 'top admin officials etc, just go through the motions only. BO is already a lame duck and hope is he's too powerless to actively damage India in his remaining months in power. Only.

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Sep 2014 07:44

^^^ Disagree. If our Prime Minister was spending time talking with US Business Leaders after turning down a US invitation to address a Joint Session of the US Congress, that would be one thing. It is quite a different thing for our Prime Minister to be fobbed off with the excuse "unpredictability of the House schedule" and then find out that that Ukrainian President had no such constraint imposed.

So called “Natural Ally”, the US, must be held by India to higher standards of being respectfully accommodating to India.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 20 Sep 2014 08:05

Hari Seldon wrote:^^Yawn. Who cares about congressional addresses?

While there is a certain truth to the points you have raised, the question we need answer for is whether the snub to Modi was deliberate. From the facts, it is beginning to look so. If our so called partner is openly lying to us, and still considers Modi a pariah with whom it unfortunately has to deal now, then we have a very different basis for a relationship. All the McCain preaching, then, maybe misdirected, no?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 20 Sep 2014 08:07

arun wrote:^^^ Disagree. If our Prime Minister was spending time talking with US Business Leaders after turning down a US invitation to address a Joint Session of the US Congress, that would be one thing. It is quite a different thing for our Prime Minister to be fobbed off with the excuse "unpredictability of the House schedule" and then find out that that Ukrainian President had no such constraint imposed.

nageshks wrote:While there is a certain truth to the points you have raised, the question we need answer for is whether the snub to Modi was deliberate. From the facts, it is beginning to look so. If our so called partner is openly lying to us, and still considers Modi a pariah with whom it unfortunately has to deal now, then we have a very different basis for a relationship. All the McCain preaching, then, maybe misdirected, no?

Did Modi even ask for addressing the house? It does not appear so (At least I have not come across a reliable newsreport suggesting that the Indian side has put in such a request).

To me it appears another one of the GOTUS shenanigans, make a show of apparently turning down something which was not even requested or on the agenda of the visit and then make it appear as a snub.

A bit like that joke about Santa and Banta calling off the war with US because they did not have the means to feed over a million PoWs..

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Sep 2014 08:32

ShreemanJi et. al, lets first ascertain a few facts. Modi is coming later this month, and the reason given for cancelling the invite was that at that time, Cong will be busy with elections. Perhaps. Ukraine president is visiting now, and so maybe Cong is in session, and hence a different situation. Is this a reasonable explanation?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 20 Sep 2014 08:34

Hearing of Russian Planes 200 miles off US coast, POTUS BO Evacuates.
"Gotta run to pakistan!" says POTUS.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 20 Sep 2014 08:42

Shreeman and CRamjis: Slight mod needed to ur CT:

House is in recess Sep. 20-28.

September 20 – 28 House Recess
October 1: FY 2015 begins, Spending Time!!!!
October 4 – November 11 House Recess
November 22 – 30 House Recess
December 12 Target House Adjournment

So they went home today, also running to evacuate, hearing of NaMO coming.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 20 Sep 2014 08:52

UlanBatori wrote:Shreeman and CRamjis: Slight mod needed to ur CT:

House is in recess Sep. 20-28.

September 20 – 28 House Recess
October 1: FY 2015 begins, Spending Time!!!!
October 4 – November 11 House Recess
November 22 – 30 House Recess
December 12 Target House Adjournment

So they went home today, also running to evacuate, hearing of NaMO coming.

No conspiracy theory projected, just a fact noted.

There is an obvious inference that could be drawn, but I would rather the forum came upon it naturally. They are not far off already, and simple two-link due diligence brings up sufficient evidence for an unbiased person to draw some conclusions.

Not for me to judge anyone, in this case.

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Sep 2014 08:54

UlanBatori wrote:Shreeman and CRamjis: Slight mod needed to ur CT:

House is in recess Sep. 20-28.

September 20 – 28 House Recess
October 1: FY 2015 begins, Spending Time!!!!
October 4 – November 11 House Recess
November 22 – 30 House Recess
December 12 Target House Adjournment

So they went home today, also running to evacuate, hearing of NaMO coming.

Our Prime Minister is in Washington DC on Sept. 29 and 30 (Reuters). US House recess ends Sept. 28. The next US Congress event you have listed is after our Prime Minister leaves Washington DC.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 20 Sep 2014 09:37

arun wrote:
....Reuters....

Yep. Its all cool, totally.

reuters wrote: A key aim will be to clear the air. Before Modi became prime minister he was barred from visiting the United States after Hindu mobs killed more than 1,000 people, most of them Muslims, in 2002 while he was chief minister of his home state of Gujarat.

wikipedia wrote: According to official figures, the riots resulted in the deaths of 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus...

bon·ho·mie?

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 20 Sep 2014 09:57

Better to have a pariah ambassador here than a firangi ringing needlessly for chai biskoota

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 20 Sep 2014 10:26

Kakkaji wrote:
With the nomination of Richard Verma as ambassador, BO has shown that he does not really understand India, and that he does not consider US-India relationship to be very important. With the master-slave relationship gone with the departure of MMS from office, BO is only going to get a transactional relationship with Modi at the helm in India.

Definitely agree. You only have to look at US appointments in India vs China in last few years to see the difference. US has consistently placed much more emphasis on US-China relationship. In 2009, Huntsman, a serving Governor of state, was unseated to go to China as ambassador. The next guy (Locke) was an ex-Governor and a serving Cabinet member (US Commerce Secy) at the time! The latest guy , Max B, is a former Senator as well. All this while, since 2011 India has managed to do with "career foreign service officers" who couldn't get their own wives to pick up their phone calls - leave alone Washington. With now a nobody like Verma coming in, we've been again shown how little India figures in BO's scheme of things.

Oh well, their loss at end of day. India under NaMo will forge new strategic alliances & friendships, regardless of whether US-India relations flourish or flounder.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 20 Sep 2014 10:31

Or it is an admission from the US. That the relationship between India and US will be only transactional under the Modi administration.

habal · Post by **habal** » 20 Sep 2014 12:13

this is a snub to corporate lobby, the Infosys, Tata's, Reliance's as much as a snub to the security lobby. These groups may depend upon influence of ambassador and his stature will be beneficial to them and their politics. Also it would be good to see what kind of creep they post in Pakistan.

This chap who has no influence in USA will mean that even corporate relations are now being discouraged and post Afghan withdrawal the ambassador to India must have no influence in USA whatsoever so that Pakis get a free hand to play their games.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 20 Sep 2014 13:06

Woohoohoo, what better time to be decisive?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 20 Sep 2014 14:17

nvishal wrote:Better to have a pariah ambassador here than a firangi ringing needlessly for chai biskoota

Maybe Obama's gut feeling about India is dictated by the time he spent in Pakistan the country, where he learned ==, the correct way to pronounce the country's name, and the core importance given by people "over there" to ego massage, echandee, image and so forth. This adds up to state dinner as a way of doing diplomacy, an approach validated by the sonia-MMS regime.

Obama may also be putting the wrong interpretation on Modi not going into a huff over the visa insult: deep down, despite the make-nice rhetoric, he may be thinking in terms of the great Lord now magnanimously allowing the transgressing serf back in from the cold, and imagining that Modi must be deeply relieved and grateful for being restored to massa's good graces. That view would make sense, since Obama gets his information from anglophone Indian and Paki elite, mist of whom can't imagine any other way for an SDRE to think. Plus there is the Huma Abedin factor and his kitchen cabinet of trusted advisors like the stuck-up empty-headed princesses like susan rice, samantha power etc. All of these people see Modi as a rustic oddity quite removed from the real DIE Indians / southasians they know from the Ivy League Liberal Arts community.

I think that would explain the syrupy graciousness post-election coupled with the fatuous symbolism of Verma's selection for the amby post.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 20 Sep 2014 14:28

Well .. The changed WTO position of India should have given them a peek at Modi's thinking.

Also, his warm welcome of the Chinese president followed by forthright comments on contentious issues during the joint presser should have cleared the remaining cobwebs in the US SD and WH.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Sep 2014 14:34

What is wrong with a transactional, and business-style, relationship with the US, even in the strategic sphere? What more is needed, and why?

From my understanding, the touchy-feely parts are brought in by people to people engagement - and going by the forumites, let alone the wider Indian diaspora in north America, there seems to be no shortage of that...

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 20 Sep 2014 14:38

Transactional between the worlds most transactional power and the most transactional PM of India. I can live with that. Provided no more stupidities against us.

PS; I am quite surprised that Modi gave an interview to CNN this early in the day. Was expecting that something that like this will take place in the 3rd of the 4th year of the PM ship.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Sep 2014 14:41

UlanBatori wrote:Poor guy this Verma. Way too easy to convert his name to Worm-A.

In that case Dick Worm-A can't be far off...

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Sep 2014 14:44

>>I am quite surprised that Modi gave an interview to CNN this early in the day.

Really, when did this happen? OK, let me check...

Ok, it is going to be aired tomorrow... I'm sure our boys on BRF (and at least a few girls pretending to be boys, hopefully!!!, because I see no obvious ones

), will analyse every word here ad infinitum...

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 20 Sep 2014 14:50

Meanwhile back home in India.

Dear beta: Open letter to apna Indian US Ambassador Richard Verma

A bit longer then I would like it to be. But what the hell.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 20 Sep 2014 16:11

Kakkaji wrote:With the nomination of Richard Verma as ambassador, BO has shown that he does not really understand India, and that he does not consider US-India relationship to be very important. With the master-slave relationship gone with the departure of MMS from office, BO is only going to get a transactional relationship with Modi at the helm in India.

Has any powerful politically connected American ever understood india? Ignorance of issues related to India is not politically critical for Amirkhan. It has been helped by indian political establishment who like to be a doormat even if a better position is offered.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Sep 2014 17:31

panduranghari wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:With the nomination of Richard Verma as ambassador, BO has shown that he does not really understand India, and that he does not consider US-India relationship to be very important. With the master-slave relationship gone with the departure of MMS from office, BO is only going to get a transactional relationship with Modi at the helm in India.
Has any powerful politically connected American ever understood india? Ignorance of issues related to India is not politically critical for Amirkhan. It has been helped by indian political establishment who like to be a doormat even if a better position is offered.

There are many things which have changed in the last 10 years. The Whitey used to get lot of information about Indians/Indian political party/GOI by assorted Indians such as leftists, socialists, elite etc. This has been going on for the last 40 years. Also Indian political influence was wider and they had to appoint a influential person (famous ) to the Amb post.

They dont get much information in the usual channels. It is only the Pakis and Kashmiris who will give information.
Now with think tanks and Indians already worldwide they need an insider who are similar to Indians in look and feel and gather information. There is an institutional mechanism in US India relationship (Mil, policy, business) but which is still vetoed by lobby groups.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Sep 2014 17:39

Nikhil T wrote: Oh well, their loss at end of day. India under NaMo will forge new strategic alliances & friendships, regardless of whether US-India relations flourish or flounder.

This is right. Indian leadership need to diversify outside the US zone and into the wider world.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 20 Sep 2014 17:56

Pratyush wrote:Transactional between the worlds most transactional power and the most transactional PM of India. I can live with that. Provided no more stupidities against us.

PS; I am quite surprised that Modi gave an interview to CNN this early in the day. Was expecting that something that like this will take place in the 3rd of the 4th year of the PM ship.

The interview is to create atmospherics for Modi's US trip.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 20 Sep 2014 19:00

JE Menon wrote:What is wrong with a transactional, and business-style, relationship with the US, even in the strategic sphere? What more is needed, and why?

From my understanding, the touchy-feely parts are brought in by people to people engagement - and going by the forumites, let alone the wider Indian diaspora in north America, there seems to be no shortage of that...

+1.

The world has changed. We've moved from a market economy to a market society. The Quid and the Quo are exchanged in real time.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 20 Sep 2014 19:41

JE Menon wrote:(and at least a few girls pretending to be boys, hopefully!!!, because I see no obvious ones )

?? You are not paying attention. Its an obvious feminine handle too. Very active and argues rationally most of the time.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 20 Sep 2014 20:03

Our Prime Minister is in Washington DC on Sept. 29 and 30 (Reuters). US House recess ends Sept. 28. The next US Congress event you have listed is after our Prime Minister leaves Washington DC.

But "we" could use a bit of reasoning pls, hain?
Pls check how many COTUSppl total attended the grand oration of vijiting Yoo-Crane-ian UkBapZi - no wonder they needed a Joint Session to have enough ppl for the recorded applause to be heard.

If you were a COTUSppl, and you had Sep. 20-28 holiday and then Oct. 4 -11 also holiday, how likely would you be to be present on Sep. 29-Oct. 3 when some vijiting 3-rd worlder comes to speak from indiapakistan near somalia, and you cyaint even understand a word he says? Whatever else they might be, COTUSppl are good are figuring out costs and profit margins on used cars etc. They plan their schedules well, esp. around elekshun time.

I think it would have been a disaster if NaMo had been set to address COTUS: all here would be jumping up and down about the National Injult of seeing a mainly empty hall.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 20 Sep 2014 23:01

US trying to link environment issues with Power sector MOU with India ...

Obama-Modi pact on power sector in logjam

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 21 Sep 2014 00:13

We have to stand firm on our position and not budge. Khans are not the only one with good technology. There are plenty others Europe and Japan are on the top of its game.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 21 Sep 2014 06:38

and Israel (unless massa stops them from goving India the technology like drip irrigation, cryptanalysis)

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Sep 2014 06:55

The appointment of Verma is asinine.He will be treated as inferior to a white Caucasian envoy by our MEA mandarins. Verma instead should've been sent to another S.Asian or Asean state,like Singapore where Indian origin nationals like former Sing.Airlines chief,economist and former diplomat,Pillai are held in the highest esteem.It would've been a masterstroke of O'Bomber had he sent Verma to Islamabad! But then he is short on vision and utterly predictable (send an Indian to India,better still a Gujju because Modiji is one-how asinine).

Interesting read,pdf files available.
http://rt.com/files/docs/interior-proof.pdf

ROBERT BRIDGE
Midnight in the American Empire.
HOW CORPORATIONS AND THEIR POLITICAL SERVANTS
ARE DESTROYING THE AMERICAN DREAM

In the real world, the autonomous individual is not the active
agent who matters most. The business enterprise, the company,
the corporation is. And companies do everything they can to take
advantage of human changeability.
—James K. Galbraith
,The Predator State.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Sep 2014 06:56

I have to pooch a stupid pooch:

The Memorandum of Understanding between the two countries on power is primarily about sharing of knowledge and technical know-how about areas such as energy efficiency and smart-metering, but the US wants to include another element to do with phase-out of refrigerant gases that add to global warming.

What the pakistan is this about? Why is the guvrmand in the bijnej of signing MOUs on such stuff? This is not strategic technology, not defense, not Dual-Use. Just ordinary electrical gizmos and chemicals.

What if there is no MOU? Why are these technologies to be "transferred"? Presumably, someone is going to pay big $$ for this. Who?

Some serious questions need to be asked about this. On non-ITAR technologies, why can't India just invite some ppl to do research/ lead research in India if there is such a shortage of brains? Or why not just put out a few deals for anyone to set up commercial enterprise? Where is the need for govt. MOUs?

Am I the only one who smells a rush to sell India, except this time it is through the Guj Baniyas, not the Italian/Marxist mafia? I am 400% conphyoojed onlee.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Sep 2014 07:04

The appointment of Verma is asinine.He will be treated as inferior to a white Caucasian envoy by our MEA mandarins.

Phillip, I don't disagree with the reality of this, but isn't this about the racist dhimmitude in MEA and resident Indians in general, rather than any fault of the US? Note that Modi and his gang have been going all out to win support and $$$ from desi-Amirkhanis long b4 he became PM, and depends on them a lot to move his agenda forward? Ram Madhav and the whole Parivar gang has been visiting US about 4 times a year for the past 9 years. Many of the victories behind the scenes were won with planning and effort by desi-Amirkhans (no details can be given, sorry). Yet even on BRF here today, we see that Resident Non-Indian lobster mentality is alive and well, little evolved from the Bhrasht culture of a century ago. Sad. Education does nothing to improve the level of evolution of this set.

If this is the quality of mandarins that Modi has in the MEA, he is not going to be able to do anything. Already I can see a move afoot to apply the booted foot to the backsides of a lot of Conslutate e-diots for their famed Customer Responsiveness.

"You call them on the phone during office hours and they don't pick up the phone, you email them and the oiseules don't respond..." NRIs and Indian-XXXXs have tolerated this tribe of losers long enough, expect some news of pretty rough treatment for Indian "diplomats" not from US police or prosecutors, but from the customers that they are supposed to "help". The laughter has already started about Amby Jaishanker's "advice", telling him he is totally 404.

Indians need to get over racism b4 advising others. Sorry to have to say this, but the worst racists in the world are in India.

I think Ambassador Worm-A is being sent to undo the damage done by the Viceregal e-diots and pacos that preceded him. RNIs would do well to give him a chance. He's probably 100 times as competent as any previous US ambassador to India, because he came up by merit through a system that is filled with ppl whose knowledge of India came up via Gunga Din bin Rudyard. Read the posts above here, and you see that BRF is filled with potential MEA racists too.