Managing Chinese Threat

[Nihat]

Without even overtly threatning chinese mainland , the indian establishment can do a lot , even at a.diplomatic level. Bringing up tibet more often would be a solution , let it be known that we have not totally forgotten the volatile situation there.

Not to mention , the sea lanes though which the chinese get their oil is right next to india , xinjiang as well is burning and it only takes one spark to light a fire .

All this can easily be done but its not because congress by its very nature is a status quoist party , scared to change anything unless in a dire situation.

The chinese have seen weakness.and are exploiting it , same as the pukes.

[SSridhar]

Acharya, that kind of asymmetrical response is not possible by India at present.

Who said it is not possible. India has to plan for the possible.

It is easy to ask that question. The answer is simple. Everybody and his/her aunt knows that today it is not possible. Demonstrate such a robust response first towards Pakistan which acts as the cat's paw for China. Pakistan kills our soldiers and our citizens every day. No government, just nobody, did anything. We have heard brave words from everybody. In CINC index, Pakistan is about 5.5times smaller than us and China is about 2.5 times bigger than us. We have no credibility today because we have been only absorbing body blows without ever retaliating. Parliament was attacked and we practically did nothing. Kargil was attacked, we just defended ourselves and we claim that as a great victory. Mumbai commuter trains were attacked. We kept quiet. 26/11 happened, we simply say that the culprits must be brought to book. Our soldiers are beheaded and ambushed and we say that such incidents would not be allowed in future. We talkof threatening east coast of PRC ? With what ? An effective and punishing response to piddly Pakistan would automatically send a suitable signal to China. No point in uttering brave but useless words.

[vinod]

Has anyone read this article before
India-china War Predicted In 2014

Gen Bakshi, who commanded Romeo Force in Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) believes that the centre of gravity and the focal point of operations in the next round with China will be J&K, with coordinated offensives from the East and West with Pakistan. {I think it will be both Arunachal and J&K}

If you were a chinese, do you think this would be the best time to attack India?
- Weak and corrupt govt almost about to go
- Indecisive defence minister and PM.
- Militarily India is waiting for new developed systems to be inducted in large numbers. The existing systems are old and almost outdated. Thanks to lethargy in acquiring new systems! Once India gets IAC, Rafale, Arihant, Agni, Rudras in numbers it will be even tougher.
- While the infrastructure on the borders are comparately better in chinese favour.

Chinese looking for triggers :- their border incursions! Paki- LOC violations! Kashmir back in limelight!

What do you guys think?

[svinayak]

- Weak and corrupt govt almost about to go
- Indecisive defence minister and PM.
- Militarily India is waiting for new developed systems to be inducted in large numbers. The existing systems are old and almost outdated. Thanks to lethargy in acquiring new systems! Once India gets IAC, Rafale, Arihant, Agni, Rudras in numbers it will be even tougher.
- While the infrastructure on the borders are comparately better in chinese favour.

Dont you think it is scripted for a trap

[vinod]

^^ trap for what? I'm stating the obvious!

Ofcourse, strategically that would be blunder on their part. Because it would leave everyone worse off. West would love an Indo-china or Indo-pak war or Indo-ChinaPak war, which would provide them with huge opportunity to continue their dominance. But, if China is ever has any plan to do something adventurous, this would be the time.

[svinayak]

Everybody and his/her aunt knows that today it is not possible.

Again the same words

[Prem Kumar]

For a war, you need 2 sides to fight. If China wants to capture territory today (which is the right time to do), all they need to do is setup tents on our sides all along the LAC and just squat there. MMS & Co will play down the incursion (like they are doing with the current 3 week Arunachal incursion) and blackout the media (who is all too willing to oblige anyway).

The Chinese can gain a few hundred square kilometers of Indian land and redraw the LAC without firing a shot

[harbans]

^ Absolutely! And the Indians are being told this is disputed. The Chinese along with their troops are being told their is no dispute, that and all that more is their own territory. That the squatters are Indian. The Indian defense everyday lacks a rooting. The Chinese offense every day solidifies upon their stance. We have to turn that around. That comes about only with a change in our Tibet stance and a direct claim on KM. For that we need a Dharmic consolidation. that will lead to a clamor on KM. A justification to undo wrongful decisions. I don't see a non Dharmic Psec GoI ever going that far. The fundamentals of the dispensation in power need to change. This is THE most important fundamental change needed in Indian foreign policy TODAY! China knows it and it would like to consolidate as much land before we realize that we do need to change our stance on Tibet and KM. The Chinese are acting a bit in haste as they are unsure NM will reverse the stance that JLN and ABV made. NM and those that are his advisors MUST realize this..and make a few statements as early as possible. We might be facing a worse situation in the coming weeks..

[member_22872]

What are you going to do with a stronger opponent who tries to take your possessions like a bully? there is no way he will listen to you if you want to talk peace. The only way is confrontation, we came long way from having an advantageous position to that of begging on our knees. A bully will never listen to you when you plead, he will slap you silly.

We need to have confidence (among the ruling politicians)and face up, Tibet would have been very good, but now we seem to have lost the gambit, hence these incursions...

[Karan M]

Damn,

http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.in/2012/ ... omber.html

[SSridhar]

India-China to Hold Military Exercises from November 4 After 5 Years - ToI

Indian and Chinese armies will resume their bilateral "Hand-in-Hand" (HiH) {a trailer of which was recently witnessed in Arunachal Pradesh when ITBP had to physically push the Chinese intruders out of Indian side of LAC} counter-terrorism exercise this November after a five-year hiatus, in a bid to cast aside the recent troop incursions and face-offs along the line of actual control (LAC).

The third HiH exercise will be held in China's Chengdu Military Area Command, which controls Tibet and almost the entire disputed LAC, from November 4 to 14. "It will be a company-level counter-terror exercise, with the Sikh Light Infantry participating from our side," said an official.

The HiH exercises, the first two editions of which were held at Kunming (China) in 2007 and Belgaum in 2008, were frozen after diplomatic spats over visa and other issues in 2009-2010. Though largely symbolic with just around 100 to 150 soldiers from each side undertaking the counter-terror drills, the exercise is seen as a major confidence-building measure between the world's largest and second-largest armies ranged against each other along the 4,057km LAC.

The decision to hold the third round of the HiH exercise was firmed up during the visit of Antony, accompanied by a high-level delegation, to China in early-July. India is keen to progressively enhance military ties with China, keep "communication channels open" and "eliminate potential" for Depsang-like incidents to reoccur.

The 21-day standoff between the two armies, which saw the rival soldiers pitching tents and indulging in "banner drills", in the Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector of eastern Ladakh after PLA troops had intruded 19km into Depsang valley in April.

Then, just last week, People's Liberation Army toops had intruded over 20km into the Chaglagam sector of eastern Arunachal Pradesh, pitched tents there and finally withdrew after spending three to four days in the area last week. India has recorded well over 600 "transgressions" by PLA troops across the LAC in the last three years.

India and China are now close to inking the new border defence cooperation agreement (BDCA) that outlines several confidence-building measures to defuse face-offs and tensions between rival troops along the LAC, as was earlier reported by TOI.

This includes additional BPM (border personnel meeting) set-ups to add to the existing ones at Chushul, Nathu La and Bum La as well as a DGMO-level hotline between the two armies like the one India has with Pakistan. Kibuthu, which is near the Chaglagam sector in Arunachal, is one such proposed BPM point that can kick in whenever there is a face-off between rival troops.

[Prem Kumar]

Check this TOI video

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vide ... 953361.cms

The MP from Arunachal Pradesh is clear that

a) The PLA has intruded 60 KM inside. TOI keeps flashing the 30 KM number & so does other English media

b) He says they have been camped out there for 9 days. TOI news flashes that they "were there for 2-3 days"

c) He does not say the PLA has left. The TOI newsflash makes it look as if they have left after 2-3 days

d) The TOI video also flashes that the "Indian Army denies the intrusion". I dont know if this is true

The situation is very grave. Under directions from the PMO, the Indian media is lying to the Indian people. I am willing to bet my left testimonial that we have already lost several square kilometers of land in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh. The LAC is being redrawn as we speak & the Indian public is being kept in the dark.

[SSridhar]

Prem Kumar, yes, something sinister is going on.

[manjgu]

we have to accept that we are no match for chinese in state craft, diplomacy ! and they also know that. every word of the chinese is measured, weighed, precise as per the situation. they will lull u in a false sense of security with slogans of friendship etc... while silently stabbing u in the back!! and there is nothing of the boom bast of vajpayee ji 'nani yaad dila denge unko' or nehru ji ' we will throw chinese of the peaks etc etc' .. ofc the current regime has no boom bast at all !

[harbans]

we have to accept that we are no match for chinese in state craft, diplomacy ! and they also know that. every word of the chinese is measured, weighed, precise as per the situation.

That is because the Chinese have a stance. They say we ArP is ours, Ladhak and Leh is ours. We don;t have a stance. No vision except one of appeasement. Once you know what the vision is, the entire setup knows what to do. It's like on auto mode, the statements will come measured, weighed etc. Right now our establishment is not sure the Chinese claims are wrong or not.

[wig]

India turns down China offer of freezing assets along LAC

New Delhi has conveyed to Beijing that it will not be possible to ‘freeze’ the infrastructure construction and forces at existing levels along the LAC. China and India are presently working to have a new Border Defence Cooperation Agreement (BDCA).

Both sides have exchanged drafts of what they opine should form part of the new agreement. It is expected to be inked when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visits China sometime in October this year. The last meeting on the matter was conducted on August 20 between Indian Foreign Secretary Sujata Singh and Chinese Vice-Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin.

The existing levels of roads, railways and airfields, all critical for military supplies or in case of an attack, are lopsided in favour of China, a top functionary told The Tribune. “There is no chance of agreeing to a freeze on the infrastructure at existing levels. It would be imprudent,” said the functionary.

The Indian Army, the Indian Air Force and the Ministry of Defence have advised against agreeing to a halt on construction of new roads, airports or railway lines along the 4,057-km-long Line of Actual Control (LAC), the name of the de-facto boundary between the two countries.

India is worried with China’s rapid expansion in the past decade. As many as 27 airfields in Tibet and Xinjiang virtually form a ‘ring’. New Delhi is just woken up in the past few years to start building roads, to base frontline fighters, the Sukhoi-30MKI, in its north-eastern part and announced raising of specialised Mountain Strike Crops.

China has two dedicated India-specific Military Area Commands at Lanzhou and Chengdu. Both have been allocated two group armies, each comprising between 75,000 and 1 lakh troops with equipment like tanks, mobile missile launchers, artillery and helicopters.

The latest report of the US Department of Defence titled “Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China 2013” describes the military capability. It reads: “The Peoples Liberation Army is investing heavily in modernising its ground force, emphasising the ability to deploy campaign-level forces across long distances quickly. This modernisation is playing out with wide-scale restructuring of PLA ground forces that includes a more rapid, flexible special operations force equipped with advanced technology and improved army aviation units utilising ultra-low altitude mobility helicopters armed with precision-guided munitions.”

Sources said the upcoming BDCA would be a filtered version of two existing agreements on maintaining peace and tranquility signed in 1993 and 1996, respectively. Besides this, a 2005 protocol exists on how soldiers on either side of the LAC will behave on coming face-to-face with each other. “The BDCA will address the gaps in the existing agreements especially how the recent incidents have panned out when soldiers have been disregarding the laid down ground rules”, a source said.

Defence Minister AK Antony told the Lok Sabha on August 20: “Two rounds of negotiations have been held so far. The purpose of the proposed agreement is to formalise mechanisms and procedures to enhance mutual trust and confidence between the border troops”.

Antony, during a visit to Beijing July 4-7 this year, had discussed with his Chinese counterpart, Gen Chang Wanquan, for having a formal mechanism to improve security at the borders, pending the final settlement of the territorial dispute between the two countries. Both countries make overlapping claims on where the boundary lies in the Himalayas. The LAC is not demarcated and has been under dispute since the British, in 1846, first offered the Tibetans a joint boundary commission in Ladakh, only to be turned down

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130826/nation.htm#15

[Prem]

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commenta ... 6914.story
U.S., China and an unthinkable war

The specter of economic doomsday makes war between China and the United States as unthinkable as fear of nuclear doomsday made Soviet-U.S. war. Or does it? In fact, Chinese and American military planners are thinking in exquisite detail, as they are expected to do, about how to win such a conflict. The problem is that the specific plans being concocted could make hostilities less unthinkable, and two great powers with every reason to avoid war could find themselves in one.Having been impotent against two U.S. aircraft carriers during the Taiwan crisis of 1996, the People's Liberation Army has concluded, as Chinese military writings show, that the best way to avoid another such humiliation is by striking U.S. forces before they strike China. While not seeking war, the Chinese especially dread a long one, in which the full weight of American military strength would surely prevail. So they are crafting plans and fielding capabilities to take out U.S. carriers, air bases, command-and-control networks and satellites early and swiftly.China now has the economic and technological heft such a plan requires, and it is China's top defense priority. The Chinese military is deploying vast numbers of missiles (including carrier killers), hard-to-find submarines, long-range sensors to track and target U.S. forces, anti-satellite weapons, digital networks to coordinate attacks and cyberwar weapons to crash U.S. networks. When the Department of Defense announced its "Asia pivot" last year, it made it clear that defeating such capabilities is now a major focus of the U.S. military.Because defending U.S. forces against such capabilities is so hard and expensive, Pentagon strategists have come up with the idea (known as air-sea battle) of crippling such forces — missile launchers, air bases, submarine pens and command-and-control centers — before they can be unleashed. Most of these targets are in China. As with the Chinese war plan, the idea is to strike with speed, fury and little warning.
Such China-U.S. reciprocal planning implies a textbook case of "crisis instability" in which the price for failing to attack before the opponent does is defeat. Each side knows the other is thinking the same way and so has all the more incentive to act preemptively if war seems imminent. Or probable. Or maybe just possible. Given the penalty for attacking second, such spiraling logic can turn confrontation into conflagration.Still, it would take a spark to ignite conflict. Moreover, generals and admirals do not make the decision to go to war; presidents do. While there is some comfort in thinking that political leaders on both sides would tamp down tensions and not order preemptive attack, it does not take much imagination to see how circuit breakers could fail in the heat of a crisis.There are several sources of friction that could cause a showdown: Chinese harassment of Japanese vessels in the disputed East China Sea could dictate a U.S. show of force in support of its ally; U.S. naval forces could oppose a Chinese attempt to restrict freedom of the seas in the South China Sea; instability in North Korea could bring both China and the United States to consider intervening; China might contest the presence of U.S. ships or aircraft suspected of snooping off its coast; Taiwan could declare independence. In such situations, an incident or mistake could transform the logic of avoiding conflict into the logic of avoiding defeat.

The People's Liberation Army, once under tight Communist Party control, now has a strong voice in war-and-peace decisions and a propensity to take chances to show that China can't be pushed around — evidenced by its menacing moves in the South and East China seas. If in a crisis China's military leaders advised its political leaders that U.S. forces were getting ready for war and China's only chance to avoid defeat was to strike early — per the approved plan — would Beijing say no? U.S. leaders are steeped in principles and procedures of civilian control, less so their Chinese counterparts.And if at the same moment the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pacific commander advised the president that the Chinese were gearing up for a preemptive strike unless U.S. forces acted quickly — again, per the plan — would Washington risk the loss of carriers, air bases, personnel and credibility by waiting?Such events are improbable but not implausible. Although the China-U.S. agenda is jammed with pressing issues, from cyber espionage to currency rates, time must be found to improve procedures and channels to defuse crises and avert military miscalculation, lest the unthinkable becomes unavoidable. And political leaders in each capital should not wait for a crisis before scrutinizing war-fighting plans and insisting on ones that strengthen, not weaken, stability. Given the stakes, plans to win must not be allowed to make war more likely.

[SSridhar]

The US Defense Secretary is on a visit to Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei and the Philippines. While in Brunei, he will attend the ADMM Plus Meeting (ASEAN Defence Ministers Plus 10 Dialogue Partners Meeting), the rest of his trip is to secure bases for the US armed forces in those countries.

Link

In a speech at the Malaysian Ministry of Defense, Mr. Hagel said that investing in security partnership and cooperation will support the economic goals of countries throughout Asia but that naval confrontations, cyberattacks and other security disruptions represent a direct threat to the global economy.

"Security is a critical foundation of prosperity," Mr. Hagel said. "Trade cannot flourish in waters that are contested by force; societies cannot thrive under the threat of terrorism; and commerce cannot .. {Direct Reference to China}

[SSridhar]

In recent discussions in this thread on China's 'Malacca Dilemma', there was some reference to the newly emerging Northern sea Route (NSR). Here is an IDSA update [Arvind Gupta] on the same.

China and Japan are positioning themselves to take advantage of the opening of the Northern Sea Route (NSR). Presently, the Chinese shipping company COSCO’s container ship is transiting through the NSR carrying exports from a Chinese port to Europe. Earlier this year, a 66,000 tonne vessel carried iron ore to China. Given this trend, in the coming years China may emerge as a major user of Northern sea route.



Japan is also alive to the benefits from the NSR. Last year the Russian gas company GAZPROM delivered a consignment of liquefied natural gas to Japan using the NSR during November 9-18. The LNG ship Ob River travelled from Hammerfest in Norway to Tobata port in Japan safely in a matter of ten days. The ship was escorted by Russian nuclear-powered ice breakers. The tanker made two voyages through the NSR in a single navigation period, having travelled empty from Japan to Europe in October. These voyages have demonstrated the technical and commercial feasibility of the NSR.

The rapid melting of the Arctic Sea ice due to global warming has led to the opening of the NSR. The passage is open for ships during the summer season up to four months. This year transit may be possible even for up to six months. Some ships may be able to sail without the escorting icebreakers. From Rotterdam in Netherlands to Dalian in China, the time of passage will be about 35 days through the NSR as compared to 48 days through the Suez Canal. This will result in considerable saving of time and fuel costs.

The Arctic holds about 20 percent of global hydrocarbon resources. Several companies have plans to invest in the oil resources. Norway is increasingly shifting its oil production activity northwards as oil output from the fields in the North Sea declines. Russia is prospecting for oil in the Yamal peninsula. The NSR and its connectivity with the Russian hinterland will provide many new economic and business opportunities.

The Northern Sea Route runs along the northern coast of Russia from Bering Strait in the west to Novaya Zemlaya in the East for about five thousand kilometres and is described as follows:

“The aquatic space adjacent to the northern coast of the Russian Federation, covering internal waters, territorial sea, the contiguous zone and the exclusive economic zone of the Russian Federation and bounded by division lines across maritime areas with the United States and the parallel Cape Dezhnev in the Bering Strait, west meridian of the Cape of Desire to the Novaya Zemlya archipelago, eastern coastline of the Novaya Zemlya archipelago, and the western boundaries of the Matochkin, Kara, and Yugorsky Straits.”

The NSR is humming with activity this year. According to the information on the website of NSRA (http://www.NSRA.ru 25 August 2013), 454 vessels have been given permission by the Russian authorities to transit through the route. Of the permissions given an overwhelming are ships with Russian flags (83 percent) and the rest (17 percent ) belonging to various countries including France, UK, China, Poland, Germany, Liberia, Marshall Islands, Liberia, etc. In all 71 applications have been refused on technical grounds.

Russia has major plans to rejuvenate its north through the development of NSR. Arkhangelsk, a major Russian port on the White Sea adjacent to the NSR, will be connected to Perm in the mineral rich Urals through Belkomur railway line. Many cities of the north will be connected through the NSR.

Russia has now complete control over the NSR. A new agency called the Northern Sea Route Administration (NSRA) has been set up in Moscow. It will have an office in Arkhangelsk. This new state agency will decide tariffs and regulations for passage of ships, consider applications from ship owners and give or refuse permissions. Its remit includes providing ice-breakers and pilotage, information regarding weather and ice conditions. The organisation will also do hydrographical surveys, arrange for search and rescue operations, and prevent pollution along the sea route including oil spills, etc.

The refusal of three applications from the international human rights NGO Greenpeace which wanted to send an icebreaker to monitor the offshore exploration of the Russian oil company Rosneft has attracted media headlines. Greenpeace has accused the Russians of trying to stifle legitimate protests over the exploitation of the Arctic Sea for commercial reasons.

Whether the potential of NSR is over-hyped is a matter of debate. This year about 1.5 million tonnes of cargo will be transported through the NSR as compared to nothing five years ago. This is still insignificant as compared to 17,225 ships that carried 928 million tonnes of cargo through the Suez Canal in 2012. Thus NSR is still in infancy. But the technical and commercial feasibility of the NSR has been demonstrated.

What is even more important is that the geopolitical importance of the NSR will be immense. As early trends show, minerals can now be transported from Europe to Asia Pacific and goods from China are now being exported to Europe. Super tankers have already made successful passage through the route. Russia is already using the route to bring development and prosperity to the North by linking the NSR with the rest of Russia through railway lines. The Russian rail and road network will link the northern sea route to Central Asia. Russia will emerge as a major beneficiary of the opening of the NSR.

But there are several challenges too. The route is still hazardous and expensive. There are uncertainties regarding ice formation and weather trends. What if the ice melt trend reverses itself? This happened in 2011 when there was more ice than expected although the melting trend resumed in 2012. The investment in the mineral exploration and shipping is fraught with high risk. Russia will have to invest a lot in infrastructure to provide connectivity with the hinterland.

Shortening of the distance and time from Europe to Asia through the Northern Sea Route will lead to the saving of fuel and on the emissions of carbon dioxide. But, there is a significant downside too. The partially burnt fuel leaves black carbon soot deposits on the ice which is a climate change enforcer. Recent studies have shown that black carbon is second only to carbon dioxide in its heat trapping potential. Arctic Council is concerned about black carbon deposits and wants these to be monitored.

Despite these uncertainties, the emerging trends indicate that the route has become technically viable. If the melting of the ice continues, NSR will become even a busier place

[SSridhar]

Islands Dispute, no Basis for Talks with Japan - China - ToI

China sees no reason to hold talks with Japan over their dispute about ownership of a group of uninhabited islands in the East China Sea, Chinese deputy foreign minister Li Baodong said on Tuesday.

Relations between the world's second- and third-largest economies have been strained for months, largely because of the spat over the islands, known as the Senkaku in Japan and the Diaoyu in China.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is keen to improve ties and has called for high-level dialogue with China, though he has rejected any conditions on talks and China has shown no inclination to even want talks.

Li said Japan's call for high-level talks was not genuine, but merely grandstanding.

"A meeting between leaders is not simply for the sake of shaking hands and taking pictures, but to resolve problems," Li told reporters ahead of President Xi Jinping's attendance at the G20 summit next week.

"If Japan wants to arrange a meeting to resolve problems, they should stop with the empty talk and doing stuff for show," Li said, when asked about the possibility of a meeting of Chinese and Japanese leaders on the sidelines of the G20.

Aircraft and ships from both countries have played a cat-and-mouse game near the islands for months, ratcheting up tension.

Japan's Coast Guard said on Tuesday that three Chinese Coast Guard vessels had entered what Japan considered to be its territorial waters near the disputed islands. China said the trip was a routine patrol in its own waters.{Aren't we hearing the same refrain about Indian land too from China ?}

Moves by some Japanese politicians to deny the country's wartime past do not help, Li added.

"Under these conditions, how can we organise the kind of leaders' summit that Japan wants?" Li said.

China reacted with fury this month after Abe sent an offering to a shrine for war dead, which also honours war criminals, while cabinet members visited it in person.

China suffered under Japanese rule, with parts of the country occupied from the 1930s. Japanese leaders have apologised in the past but many in China doubt their sincerity, partly because of contradictory remarks by politicians.

"What Japan has to do now is show vision and courage, properly face up to history and take a proper attitude and real actions to get rid of the obstacles which exist for the healthy development of bilateral ties," Li said.

[RamaY]

... In 2001, the NDA allowed US troops to have presence in NE - which was a signal to PRC.

Couldn't find any references in google. Kindly provide same.

TIA

[SSridhar]

... In 2001, the NDA allowed US troops to have presence in NE - which was a signal to PRC.

Couldn't find any references in google. Kindly provide same.

TIA

RamaY, it might be a reference to GoI allowing US soldiers to train at Vairengte, the Jungle Warfare and Counter-Terrorism school in Mizoram.

[Pratyush]

Islands Dispute, no Basis for Talks with Japan - China - ToI

SNIP..........
"What Japan has to do now is show vision and courage, properly face up to history and take a proper attitude and real actions to get rid of the obstacles which exist for the healthy development of bilateral ties," Li said.

I am waiting to be surprised, when the GOI takes a similar stance, WRT, PRC.

[RKumar]

Check this TOI video

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vide ... 953361.cms

The situation is very grave. Under directions from the PMO, the Indian media is lying to the Indian people. I am willing to bet my left testimonial that we have already lost several square kilometers of land in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh. The LAC is being redrawn as we speak & the Indian public is being kept in the dark.

In my opinion, they are gonna attack India/Japan in very near future. In case of India, their tactic is quite similar to 1962. Grab the land without firing a shot while political class was busy in day dreaming "Hindi Chini bhai bhai" and when India tried to defend its territory half heartily without any proper plan using "forward deployment policy" on the border. While Chini planned for it, already amassed equipment and army on the border and started shooting. On the other hand India, put out small resistance pockets without much planning, good equipment, logistic or resupply.

I see the same pattern emerging this time also.

[SSridhar]

INS Vikrant Won't Spark Arms Race: China

Sure, just like China's massive arms build-up has not led to an Indian arms race.

China on Thursday termed “groundless” local media commentaries that claimed India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier has sparked a regional arms race. Local media have speculated that India has marched ahead of China with the launch of INS Vikrant. China’s Defence Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun said such comments were aimed at provoking tensions between China and India, State-run Xinhua news agency reported. — PTI

[svinayak]

Local media have speculated that India has marched ahead of China with the launch of INS Vikrant.


This has to be repeated many times in all Chinese forums

[Agnimitra]

Local media have speculated that India has marched ahead of China with the launch of INS Vikrant.


This has to be repeated many times in all Chinese forums

I think they mean local Indian media. They claim that Indian English media is a US-stooge and plants articles to create animosity between India and China.

This time on a trip to Desh I found shops selling Chinese goods that had prominent signs for "India-China Friendship bands" during Raksha Bandhan. Someone is working on Chinese PR within India, too...

[Lilo]

Local media have speculated that India has marched ahead of China with the launch of INS Vikrant.


This has to be repeated many times in all Chinese forums

I think they mean local Indian media. They claim that Indian English media is a US-stooge and plants articles to create animosity between India and China.

This time on a trip to Desh I found shops selling Chinese goods that had prominent signs for "India-China Friendship bands" during Raksha Bandhan. Someone is working on Chinese PR within India, too...

Actually when it comes to China its either Black or White in Indian English Print media - which sets the main tone for rest of media to emulate.


TOIlet daftly leads the anti-China charge with screaming headlines regarding their latest outrage.
In contrast Al-Chindu leads the nauseatingly slavish rationalization of the latest Chinese outrage.

There is no middle ground between them and most importantly neither refers to the role of Massa in determining the actions and rhetoric on both sides and its background diktats (especially to Chinese cabal) to keep the border "HOT".

So Massa role is totally sanitized and some times eliminated completely from the discourse when it comes to discussing India-China relationship.

[svinayak]

This time on a trip to Desh I found shops selling Chinese goods that had prominent signs for "India-China Friendship bands" during Raksha Bandhan. Someone is working on Chinese PR within India, too...

Can you provide the name of the city.
I have been monitoring this Chindia from 2008. I attend many chinese seminars and seen official Chinese from mainland speak.

[Agnimitra]

^^ Acharya ji, Hyderabad. I spotted such stores with big signs even near Cantonment areas, around Sainikpuri, Yapral, etc.

[harbans]

China used Nukes to divert Brahmaputra in 2005..the Govt knew and kept quiet. Posted in India interests.

[abhishek_sharma]

Beijing’s Power and China’s Borders: Twenty Neighbors in Asia

The People’s Republic of China came into existence in 1949 burdened by territorial disputes with all but one of its neighbors -- a category that, by this book’s count, includes 19 countries and Taiwan, whose status is disputed. Today, 11 of the disputes remain at least partially unsettled, of which the most important are with India (over their land border) and with Vietnam and four other countries (over maritime borders). Each chapter in this useful book describes China’s relations with one of its neighbors; provides instructive maps; and analyzes the territories at stake, the history of negotiations, the relevant legal and strategic issues, and current economic and security relations. Even uncontested borders present daunting problems of control, and some of the settled boundaries have the potential to reemerge as problems in the future.

[SSridhar]

Manila Says Beijing Set Impossible Conditions for Aquino Visit - Straits Times

Philippine officials say China demanded that President Benigno Aquino III withdraw a legal complaint over disputed territories for Beijing to welcome him at an annual Chinese trade fair this week, prompting him to cancel his visit.

Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said on Monday that Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi and two other Chinese diplomats relayed conditions for Mr Aquino to attend the China-Asean Expo.

Mr Hernandez declined to detail the conditions in a news conference but said these were "absolutely inimical to our national interest."

Two Philippine officials told The Associated Press that China wanted the Philippines to withdraw a UN arbitration case over disputed islands. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to reporters.

[SSridhar]

Japan Looks to Military Guidelines with the US to Define Strike Ability - Japan Times

Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera indicated Tuesday that revised bilateral security guidelines with the United States could define Japan’s capacity to mount attacks on the military bases of hostile nations.

“Japan would like to jointly consider with the United States how (the two countries) can complement each other (regarding the issue of Japan maintaining a capacity to carry out such attacks) and how the issue can be defined in the guidelines,” Onodera said in a speech.

Referring to North Korea’s nuclear weapons and missile development, Onodera said Tokyo and Washington “need to thoroughly study a possible attack on (hostile bases) in the event of a missile launch clearly targeting Japan,” Onodera said.

During a meeting last week in Brunei, Onodera and U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel agreed to consider the issue, and to start work on revising the Japan-U.S. defense cooperation guidelines.

The guidelines define the role of the Self-Defense Forces and the U.S. military, and the revision is aimed at enabling the two allies to better cope with the changing security environment in the Asia-Pacific region.

On Tuesday, Onodera also called for debate in Japan on whether to lift the self-imposed ban on exercising the right to collective self-defense, or helping to defend an ally that comes under armed attack.

Referring to China’s growing maritime activity from the East China Sea to the Pacific, including repeated intrusions into Japanese waters around the Senkaku Islands, Onodera stressed the necessity of introducing unmanned reconnaissance aircraft to monitor Chinese naval movements.

Slowly, but surely, Japan is militarizing.

[SSridhar]

Japan Clearing the Way for Wider Military Role - Japan Times

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is poised to achieve his long-held goal of reinterpreting Article 9 of the Constitution to allow Japan to exercise its right to engage in collective self-defense under the U.N. Charter.

In February, Abe reconvened an advisory panel of security experts for the first time since his previous, short-lived stint as prime minister nearly six years ago. He also appointed Ambassador to France Ichiro Komatsu, a collective defense advocate, as new head of the Cabinet Legislation Bureau, which has long upheld the ban on collective defense according to the government’s current interpretation of Article 9, which renounces the use of force to settle international disputes.

Reinterpreting Article 9, which Abe eventually hopes to amend, would be a big change for a nation that has effectively had a defense-only posture since the war.

[Prem Kumar]

Slowly, but surely, Japan is militarizing.

With a floundering economy, possibly getting ensnared in Syria and a lack of stomach to fight a cold war with China, it seems like U.S is giving the nod for the Japanese industrial might to flower in the defense space. Japan might be encouraged to become a strong vassal outpost

[Prem]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 16538.aspx
China army not letting Indian troops patrol LaC

A spot report, commissioned by the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) on the India-China border issue, has confirmed the government’s worst fears.
The ground situation report, submitted by National Security Advisory Board (NSAB) chairperson Shyam Saran to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on August 10, 2013, underlines that the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops are not allowing their Indian counterparts to patrol the Indian perception of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh.Singh had told Saran to visit the eastern Ladakh and Siachen sectors from August 2 to 9 for reviewing the border infrastructure development and LAC situation. Saran, who had conducted a similar exercise in May 2007, has reported a grim scenario of Chinese transgressions in the Daulet Beg Oldi (DBO) sector, Depsang Bulge and Chumar. The report has been shared with the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS).An inter-ministerial committee headed by home secretary Anil Goswami has reportedly been set up to monitor the LAC situation and the existing empowered committee on border infrastructure development, led by cabinet secretary Ajit Seth, has been asked to remove the bureaucratic bottlenecks in Ladakh.Though the government is tightlipped about the report, Saran has indicated that the “limits of patrol” line has become the new LAC for India in certain areas of Ladakh sector.

The Chinese define the LAC in eastern Ladakh as marked on a map in then premier Zhou En-Lai’s letter of November 7, 1959, to then prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru.The Indian perception of the LAC, as marked by the China Study Group (CSG) in 1976 on the basis of the 1962 war positions, vastly varies from the Chinese one on at least 12 pockets from DBO to Chumar.
However, the CSG — which comprises the foreign, home and defence secretaries, the army vice-chief and two intelligence chiefs — defined the “limits of patrolling” for the Indian Army to maintain border peace. The patrol line is between New Delhi and Beijing’s LAC perceptions and 2-20 km short of the Indian line.
Saran has reported that the Chinese have built a motorable kutcha road to a sensitive Track Junction area in the DBO sector, thus changing the position on ground and in violation of the 2005 protocol. The former foreign secretary told the PMO that Indian troops were able to go only up to the patrol line in Depsang with the area defined as “bulge” with Chinese PLA. The April 15, 2013, Depsang incursion at Raki Nullah was designed to prevent the Indian patrols from reaching Points 10, 11, 11A and 13 with Point 12 outside the patrol line.Saran and former northern army commander Lt Gen PC Bharadwaj also surveyed Pangong Tso, a saltwater lake through which runs the LAC. They found a beefed up PLA firmly entrenched in their position in the Srijap area. Saran is also concerned with the situation in Chumar where the PLA is making frequent transgressions, claiming 85 sq km of Indian territory despite the international border defining the two countries

[Philip]

Is this true? Why is the GOI concealing the true facts?

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/chin ... 05652.html

Chinese Army has occupied 640 square km in three Ladakh sectors, says report
Shiv Aroor | New Delhi, September 5, 2013 | UPDATED 18:00 IST
China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) has "incrementally" occupied nearly 640 square km of area on the Line of Actual Control (LoAC) in Ladakh in the past few months.

The shocking revelation came in a report submitted by the National Security Advisory Board (NSAB) to the Prime Minister's Office.

Headlines Today has accessed the details of the damning report, submitted by former foreign secretary and NSAB chairman Shyam Saran to the PMO on August 12.

According to the report, patrolling limits set by incremental PLA area denial in eastern Ladakh region of Jammu and Kashmir have now become the de facto LoAC.

The resulting area denial is effectively a loss of 640 sq km across three sectors in Depsang, Chumar and Pangong Tso, the report said.

It said Indian troops are no longer able to access at least four points on the patrol line, thereby denying an area earlier accessible to them.

Moreover, after PLA incursions in April and May, Depsang Bulge is no longer accessible to Indian forces.

The report also highlights that the PLA's un-metalled road across the LoAC in Raki Nallah area of Daulet Beg Oldi (DBO) sector is still motorable.

Approximately 70 sq km of Indian territory is now effectively under the PLA's control at Pangong Tso, the NSAB has assessed.

The PLA has repeatedly intruded into Jammu and Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh over the last few months. But India has failed to register a strong protest to the aggression.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/chin ... 05652.html

[vic]

The best thing would be to use imported C-17s to land imported T-90s firing imported reflecks missile on Sissy Chinese border patrols who only are capable of using low tech Chinese roads.

[Prem Kumar]

The India Today story is exactly what I was afraid of & had posted about in the previous page. See my posts about inconsistencies in Times of India reporting which indicated that there was something black in the lentils.

China is redrawing the LAC as we speak without firing a shot. Manmohan Singh is letting them do so. In order to play down his impotence, he, MOD (AKA), MEA (Khurshid) are diabolically misleading the Indian public through the lick-spittle English media