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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 23 Sep 2013 05:45
by Philip
The latest Kenyan terror attack,in a nation where O'Bomber's half-brother is alleged to be a top Muslim Brotherhood financial figure,is additional grist to the mill which claims that O'Bomber is in reality a "Manchurian President".
'Manchurian president' ushering in Islamic caliphate?
http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/manchurian-p ... caliphate/
WND EXCLUSIVE
'Manchurian president' ushering in Islamic caliphate?
'A tidal wave of change already reaping disastrous results'
Published: 09/11/2013
obama-saudi-king
Since assuming office, President Obama has weakened America both domestically and abroad by emboldening U.S. enemies and tacitly supporting Muslim Brotherhood revolutions that have empowered Islamic radicals, charges a new book.
In “Impeachable Offenses: The Case to Remove Barack Obama from Office,” New York Times bestselling authors Aaron Klein and Brenda J. Elliott demonstrate that Obama’s policies have been helping to install Muslim Brotherhood-friendly regimes to the detriment of U.S. national security and world stability.
“Obama’s policies are installing political Islam throughout the Middle East and North Africa in a tidal wave of change already reaping disastrous results for those regions as well as for U.S. interests there,” write Klein and Elliott.
The authors compare Obama’s actions to the policies of Jimmy Carter, which weakened the secular Shah’s regime in Iran, arguably ushering in a Shiite Islamic revolution that continues to this day to support and carry out acts of terrorism worldwide.
Aaron Klein’s “Impeachable Offenses: The Case to Remove Barack Obama from Office” is available now, autographed, at WND’s Superstore
Klein and Elliott spotlight the central role Obama played in the downfall of U.S. ally Hosni Mubarak, citing information that indicates elements of the anti-Mubarak uprising in 2011, particularly political aspects, were being coordinated with the U.S.
“Impeachable Offenses” presents new information the Obama administration worked behind the scenes with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood to facilitate a transfer of power after Mubarak’s resignation.
Islamic caliphate?
Mubarak was only the beginning, write Klein and Elliott. Obama’s support for a U.S. ally’s ouster and replacement with radical Islamic elements would be repeated numerous times in the Middle East and North Africa, to the great detriment of the American war on terror, the authors write.
“Impeachable Offenses” spotlights Obama’s role in the downfall of Tunisian President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali, who fled Tunisia Jan. 14, 2011. Ben Ali largely was seen as an ally of the West, even working behind the scenes with Israel on occasion.
Another U.S. ally forced to step down after mass protests was Yemen’s president Ali Abdullah Saleh, who was considered a crucial ally in the U.S. fight against al-Qaida in his country and throughout the Middle East.
Klein and Elliott present evidence Obama was involved in Saleh’s ouster, which brought the Muslim Brotherhood-founded Islah party to rule.
The U.S. similarly has called for the king of Morocco, Mohammed VI, one of the most Western-oriented leaders in North Africa, to open his monarchy to a power-sharing agreement with a new parliament to be voted on by the people.
While the king still retains vast powers, he now shares in a coalition government with the Justice and Development Party, which won a plurality of the vote, the first under the country’s new constitution. The party advocates a society governed by Islam and has been described as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Book makes impeachment case
Klein and Elliott bill their book as a well-documented indictment of Obama based on major alleged violations.
Among the alleged offenses enumerated in the book:
Obamacare not only is unconstitutional but illegally bypasses Congress, infringes on states’ rights and marking an unprecedented and unauthorized expansion of IRS power.
Sidestepping Congress, Obama already has granted largely unreported de facto amnesty to millions of illegal aliens using illicit interagency directives and executive orders.
The Obama administration recklessly endangered the public by releasing from prison criminal illegal aliens at a rate far beyond what is publicly known.
The president’s personal role in the Sept. 11, 2012, Benghazi attack, with new evidence regarding what was transpiring at the U.S. mission prior to the assault – arguably impeachable activities in and of themselves.
Illicit edicts on gun control in addition to the deadly “Fast and Furious” gun-running operation intended, the book shows, to collect fraudulent gun data.
From “fusion centers” to data mining to drones to alarming Department of Homeland Security power grabs, how U.S. citizens are fast arriving at the stage of living under a virtual surveillance regime.
New evidence of rank corruption, cronyism and impeachable offenses related to Obama’s first-term “green” funding adventures.
The illegality of leading a U.S.-NATO military campaign without congressional approval.
Obama has weakened America both domestically and abroad by emboldening enemies, tacitly supporting a Muslim Brotherhood revolution, spurning allies and minimizing the threat of Islamic fundamentalism.
This is Klein and Elliott’s fourth book investigating the Obama administration. The other titles are “Fool Me Twice,” “Red Army” and “The Manchurian President.”
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 23 Sep 2013 09:35
by svinayak
Other
issues have contributed to a distinct lowering of enthusiasm for the
India relationship in the US, such as perceived Indian protectionism
exemplified by our Preferential Market Access decision to force foreign
companies to set up manufacturing facilities in the telecom sector;
This is big one. At Least 40B worth of telecom products will have to be manufactured inside India.
India, however, is wary of this re-balancing strategy as it doubts the
capacity and inclination of the US to contain China beyond a certain
point because of the huge economic and financial interdependence between the two countries.
The wild card is PRC and PRC will weigh its relationship with US based on how much US will work with India
They will pay more money to Uncle to keep uncle not to embrace India
Uncle has been making money from PRC for keeping India at a distance.
PRC gives money to US for keeping India away from trade, commerce
This has been going on for more than 20 years
There is imbalance.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 23 Sep 2013 09:37
by CRamS
Philip wrote:The latest Kenyan terror attack,in a nation where O'Bomber's half-brother is alleged to be a top Muslim Brotherhood financial figure,is additional grist to the mill which claims that O'Bomber is in reality a "Manchurian President".
'Manchurian president' ushering in Islamic caliphate?
http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/manchurian-p ... caliphate/
WND EXCLUSIVE
'Manchurian president' ushering in Islamic caliphate?
'A tidal wave of change already reaping disastrous results'
Published: 09/11/2013
PhillipJi, indeed, I am sure there is another NY times best seller coming out that uncovers flying saucers and extra terrestrial Muslims on their way to attack US because Obama is a closet Muslim and has been making friendly gestures to them since assuming office.
Unbelievable the tripe in this country that passes off as journalism and embraced by so many. Economist Paul Krugman laments the same, namely, the alternate universe, these Fox news type nut jobs live in.
Contrast that with India. MMS's motives in surrendering to TSP cannot even be questioned. If Obama has appeased Muslim brotherhood as many clowns in US claim, then on that scale imagine how does MMS's appeasement of TSP look like? Yet nobody can talk about it, nor has the guts to do so.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 23 Sep 2013 20:10
by Vadivel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramasiva ... ramangalam
Views on America
General Kumaramangalam trained at the artillery school in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. From his letters it is evident he wasn't very impressed with the Americans. He saw them as suffering from an "aggressive inferiority complex" and cautioned a newly independent India against coming under American influence. The following is an excerpt from a letter written by him to C. Rajagopalachari in 1947:
"This country is not one that I will ever get fond of. I have not got a very high opinion of them. The people that I have to deal with are very kind, hospitable and have been very good to the two of us. But somehow I feel there is a trace of artificiality in that and also it is the result of trying to impress one. They I think are very jealous of the old world and its background and culture and this results in an aggressive inferiority complex. As for their state of morality, there is none. People seem to delight in trying to outwit each other by any means, mainly crooked. The politicians are racketeers and big business has a tight grip on everything in the country. The small country trader and the farmer I think have their hands securely tied by the big men. I do hope that our country proceeds with caution and doesn't get entirely under the influence of the States."[5]
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 23 Sep 2013 21:10
by Cosmo_R
rhytha wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramasiva ... ramangalam
Views on America
General Kumaramangalam trained at the artillery school in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. From his letters it is evident he wasn't very impressed with the Americans. He saw them as suffering from an "aggressive inferiority complex" and cautioned a newly independent India against coming under American influence. The following is an excerpt from a letter written by him to C. Rajagopalachari in 1947:
".... The people that I have to deal with are very kind, hospitable and have been very good to the two of us. But somehow I feel there is a trace of artificiality in that and also it is the result of trying to impress one. They I think are very jealous of the old world and its background and culture and this results in an aggressive inferiority complex. As for their state of morality, there is none. People seem to delight in trying to outwit each other by any means, mainly crooked. The politicians are racketeers and big business has a tight grip on everything in the country. The small country trader and the farmer I think have their hands securely tied by the big men. I do hope that our country proceeds with caution and doesn't get entirely under the influence of the States."[5]
Would seem to apply to many countries. We all know that this would not apply to our politicians or our big biz guys.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 23 Sep 2013 21:48
by NRao
I know I am not up to date, but, I am terribly shocked by:
Fatigue on India's side that how much more to give to the US. And on US side that India doesn't give up Kashmir to TSP. Nuke deal already put constraints despite the US conniving with PRC to create hazards for India.
-------------------------------
On:
The latest Kenyan terror attack,in a nation where O'Bomber's half-brother is alleged to be a top Muslim Brotherhood financial figure,is additional grist to the mill which claims that O'Bomber is in reality a "Manchurian President".
'Manchurian president' ushering in Islamic caliphate?
Notwithstanding the poster's inclination to be a biased, dramatically exaggerate and many a times a twister of information (granted that is a right, is it?), I am inclined to believe that this administration's policies have created turmoil in the ME. Yet, to imply that the President is some sort of a closet Islamist is subversive to say the very least. I am not opposed to his policies, but I do not like the way the administration executes them. But then navigation-ally such execution is never easy - understatement of the year.
((Added l8r:
I would keep away form that web site.))
rhytha wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramasiva ... ramangalam
Views on America
General Kumaramangalam trained at the artillery school in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. ..............................................
"This country is not one that I will ever get fond of................................ The small country trader and the farmer I think have their hands securely tied by the big men. I do hope that our country proceeds with caution and doesn't get entirely under the influence of the States."[5]
You take what you want, discard the rest.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 23 Sep 2013 22:14
by Philip
CR,point noted and I agree.In fact the media is on many vital issues as subservient as its desi master taking his "firang" cue. A few years ago,a pal in the media laughed at my naivety and asked me if I knew how many outfits had been neutered.In fact,sadly the Opposition has been almost as dismal in performance as the govt.Had these scams and pandering to firang vested interests happened in many other countries,there would've been mass demos in the streets.The first family and its coterie are beginning to resemble that of the late little lamented Romanian dictator Nicolai Ceaucescu of whom no evil can be seen,heard or spoken of.The shrill defence of them by their hirelings on media shows only reinforces the descent of Indian democracy into the abyss of totalitarianism,in a "soft" version of the Emergency,but equally corrosive.
In this we are taking our cue from the US of A,where the complete surveillance of swathes of the population through the NSA,in massive illegal intrusions of privacy has been revealed by Wiki/Snowden.Applying the required pressure upon selected individuals and manipulating the "lives of others" is the flavour of the time.The US is shaping up to resemble more of a former East bloc nation ,Stasi style,than a robust transparent democracy,more's the pity.
PS: Reg. the "Manchurian President",the "poster" certainly has his firm views upon the true nature of the beast,"a nuclear hypocrisy",that wishes to preserve eternal its global economic and military domination,but if one reads the info put forward in the article,there are some hard facts out there that cannot be discounted.The jury may still be out regarding the current incumbent's "inner voice",whether he panders to the Islamist agenda,but even hard right western papers like the UK Telegraph had front-paged reports about the CIA's plans to oust Mubarak for over a year before the Egyptian Spring broke upon us.After more than 50 years,the CIA has finally come clean about its role in the coup that ousted Mossadegh.Everyone now knows the truth about Chile and Allende and the huge subversion of democracy in South and Central America in the last century.Support of right wing extremist groups in Europe with false flag terror attacks did take place ,"Op. Gladio" immediately comes to mind.
Check out this report and the video clip.
http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-the ... 47900.html
Sandy Hook, Black Ops, False Flags And Operation Gladio
Operation Gladio: False Flag Terror Attacks Never Stopped After Cold War
From terror attacks in Italy and Belgium, to the assassination of the Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro in 1978, Operation Gladio, the stand behind army in the event of the invasion of Europe by the Soviets, actually resulted in a widespread campaign of terror.
The origin of Gladio can be traced to the so-called “secret anti-Communist NATO protocols”, which were allegedly protocols committing the secret services of NATO member states to work to prevent communist parties from coming to power in Western Europe. According to the Italian researcher Mario Coglitore, the protocols required member states to guarantee alignment with the Western block “by any means”.
According to US journalist Arthur Rowse, a secret clause exists in the North Atlantic Treaty requiring candidate countries, before joining NATO, to establish clandestine citizen cadres standing ready to eliminate communist cells during any national emergency. These clandestine cadres were to be controlled by the country’s respective security services
According to numerous experts on the operation, Gladio was infiltrated by the CIA and NATO, turned into a terrorist organization, and subsequently used as a political weapon to force Europeans into voting for establishment politicians throughout the use of terrorist acts to create a narrative of fear.
“One of P-2’s specialties was the art of provocation. Leftist organizations like the Red Brigades were infiltrated, financed and / or created, and the resulting acts of terrorism, like the assassination of Italy’s premier in 1978 and the bombing of the railway station in Bologna in 1980, were blamed on the left.
The goal of this ’strategy of tension’ was to convince Italian voters that the left was violent and dangerous-by helping make it so,” wrote Mark Zepezauer.
During a recent interview by author Richard Cottrell, these facts were brought to light with Cottrell making the startling statement that
Gladio has NOT ended as previously claimed.
Tonight we are going to take a look at the role of Central Intelligence Agency in sponsoring false flag operations, in particular we will be examining Operation Gladio, a cold war black opera orchestrated by the CIA who launched terrorist attacks in Italy and throughout Europe in order to blame leftist communists.
The chosen targets were usually public places in order to create maximum impact.
Bombs were planted in banks and railway stations and trains. Snipers fired at will into innocent crowds of peaceful protesters or weekend shoppers simply out buying groceries.
It was a slaughter of the innocents, and the United States, working through the CIA and secret war departments of NATO, carried out a long series of false flag attacks throughout the European continent to meet its own political ends. “
If Operation Gladio has never ended then all terror attacks throughout Europe and even those in the United States, should be looked out with a highly suspicious eye.
“Gladio is active alive, working, and plotting to this day.
It is behind terrorist atrocities which have been performed in Europe not just 20 30 40 years ago but which have been performed within shall we say minutes in the historic record.
This is the important thing to remember, all the time we keep talking about Gladio as something that happened in the past, it was a long time ago maybe we should bury now…
Its not, this is an organization or idea or brand or trademark which is so useful you cannot put it away.“
Using facts gained through investigation into Operation Gladio and then fast forwarding to the present, one must wonder if these same elements within the US government are once again carrying out false flag attacks on innocent civilians (including Americans) to further push their political goals. (disarming the American people among other tyrannical plans)
As investigations into both the Colorado Batman movie shooting and the Sandy Hook Shooting have shown, many different attacks within American have had all the hallmarks of a false flag operation and, among numerous other operations and false flag plans that have become public, Operation Gladio shows that elements of our government have in the past carried out false flag terror attacks.
For instance, when you take an independent minded look at the details revolving around the Sandy Hook Shooting a series of startling facts comes to light.
Once again a government-funded mock emergency drill was being conducted at a nearby local school at the very same time the supposed realtime shooting was taking place at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut – leaving all the fingerprints of a government staged false flag event to strip guns from the American people.
Many people involved in responding to the Newtown school shooting have been shown to be participants in active shooter drills either in the past or on the very day of the shooting. To top it all off, there are still many inconsistencies in the official story.
One of the noticeable problems with the official story is that alleged shooting suspect Adam Lanza’s car was identified as a black Honda Civic, Connecticut plate number 872 YEO which is registered to a one Christopher A Rodia (born August 1969), totally discrediting the official story.
An excerpt from a local publication details the fact that an active-shooter drill was indeed taking place during the actual event known as the Newtown or Sandy Hook Schools Shooting, thus signifying all of the classic signs of a false flag operation.
Fast forwarding to the present, we have seen a large-scale media attack on the 2nd Amendment and now, in a startling turn of events, elements of the corporate media are literally attacking those who question the shooting.
When you consider the fact that the corporate media has absolutely been complicit in the Sandy Hook Shooting, it makes sense that they would send an elitist Vanderbilt (Anderson Cooper) to broadcast one of the most hardcore segments of shilling the corporate media has ever conducted.
The above facts are merely a small fraction of the startling details that have come to light in regards to the Sandy Hook Shooting as well as the horrific Colorado theater shooting.
So, with the knowledge of Operation Gladio and the details surrounding numerous attacks within the US, is it possible that elements of the current United States government are involved in black ops staged terror as we speak?
Emblem of “Gladio”, Italian branch of the NATO “stay-behind” paramilitary organizations. The motto means “In being silent I serve freedom”.
File:Gladio.png
Credit: Wikipedia
Towards the end of the interview with Infowars Nightly News, Cottrell was asked if he thought attacks of the sort carried out under the auspice of Operation Gladio were a possibility in America.
Do you think they are barbaric enough to kill innocent children as an excuse to attack our 2nd Amendment?
To that end, his stern and straight forward yes reply should open the eyes of free thinking citizens throughout the world.
http://youtu.be/wU0fxLS0BSQ
Thursday, January 17, 2013
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 23 Sep 2013 22:43
by ramana
Looks like we need a CT thread in GDF for all these type of posts.
Please use OT thread in GDF and limit ourselves to open source acknowledged media in this thread.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 24 Sep 2013 10:09
by anmol
Police: NYC mob attacks Sikh professor, thinking he's Muslim
by Rob Quinn, Newser, usatoday.com
September 23rd 2013
In what police are investigating as a hate crime, a Columbia University professor was badly beaten on a New York City street Saturday by a mob that apparently believed he was a Muslim.
Police say Prabjot Singh, a 31-year-old Sikh, was attacked just blocks from his home by a group of more than 20 young men on bikes who called him a terrorist and shouted "Get Osama!" Singh, who was saved when passersby intervened, was left with injuries including a fractured jaw, reports the Columbia Spectator.
NEWSER: Baby-snatching grandma, boy found after 13 years
Friend Simran Jeet Singh describes the attack in the Huffington Post, noting that the professor had been taking an evening walk after dropping his wife and 1-year-old at home.
"He couldn't speak because many of his teeth had been displaced, but he waved limply to let us know that he was OK," he writes of seeing Singh at the hospital. "It's incredibly sad," Singh himself tells the New York Daily News. "It's not the neighborhood I know. I work in this community. It's just not American."
Gawker points out that Singh himself noted in a New York Times article on anti-Sikh violence last year that the turbans and long beards of Sikh men have often marked them out as targets for discrimination both in India and overseas.
It's not the only alleged hate crimeNYC has suffered in recent weeks, reports Newser, a USA TODAY content partner providing general news, commentary and coverage from around the Web. Its content is produced independently of USA TODAY.
Police Investigating Possible Bias Attack On Columbia Professor
newyork.cbslocal.com | Sep 23rd 2013 10:17 AM
NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) – Police are investigating a possible bias attack after a professor at Columbia University was assaulted by a group of young men over the weekend in upper Manhattan.
It happened just after 8 p.m. Saturday on 110th Street near Lennox Avenue.
Prabhjot Singh, who is Sikh, was approached by a group of 15 to 20 young men on bicycles making anti-Muslim statements, police said.
Some shouted “get Osama” and “terrorist” as the incident progressed, Singh said in a statement.
One of the men pulled his beard and as the group fled, they kicked him several times to the body and face, police said. Singh needed surgery for a broken jaw, WCBS 880′s Alex Silverman reported.
As Silverman reported, Singh co-wrote a New York Times op-ed last year about the very thing he said happened to him: hate attacks on Sikhs mistaken for Muslims.
According to a Stanford University study sponsored by SALDEF, 70 percent of Americans misidentify turban-wearers in the U.S. as Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or Shinto when nearly all turban-wearers in the U.S. adhere to Sikhism, SALDEF said.
“Here you have a practicing doctor, a teacher and a community servant falling victim to hate in the largest and proudest melting pot in America,” Jasjit Singh, SALDEF’s executive director, said in a statement. “This violence is an affront to all Americans’ core values.”
There have been no arrests.
SALDEF said the NYPD’s Hate Crime Task Force and Columbia University’s Department of Public Safety are investigating.
Check Out These Other Stories From CBSNewYork.com:
(TM and © Copyright 2013 CBS Radio Inc. and its relevant subsidiaries. CBS RADIO and EYE Logo TM and Copyright 2013 CBS Broadcasting Inc. Used under license. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.)
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 24 Sep 2013 17:05
by JwalaMukhi
anmol wrote:
Police: NYC mob attacks Sikh professor, thinking he's Muslim
by Rob Quinn, Newser, usatoday.com
September 23rd 2013
Friend Simran Jeet Singh describes the attack in the Huffington Post, noting that the professor had been taking an evening walk after dropping his wife and 1-year-old at home.
"He couldn't speak because many of his teeth had been displaced, but he waved limply to let us know that he was OK," he writes of seeing Singh at the hospital. "It's incredibly sad," Singh himself tells the New York Daily News. "It's not the neighborhood I know. I work in this community. It's just not American."
Gawker points out that
Singh himself noted in a New York Times article on anti-Sikh violence last year that the turbans and long beards of Sikh men have often marked them out as targets for discrimination both in India and overseas.
Do not know if this is clever psy-ops by mentioning India in the article. If otherwise, if the good professor felt that many mistook the sikhs in India and subjected them to discrimination, then what the *** is he complaining about? Why does he feel that America should be more educated about sikhs than in India? There is/was no need for him to tar and feather India, when he is writing about yahoos in america mistaking sikhs for being someone else. Either an individual is in true secular mould, or this is a very clever psy-ops by the press.
Oh the irony, even when whining couldn't pass up taking potshot at India. Looks like secular education has created a generation who have a very warped perspective, even when they just need to look at simple things.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 24 Sep 2013 18:12
by CRamS
Guys, if you want to get a glimpse of the sick cold-war mentality against India that pervades DC, check this out. Many months ago, our fellow BRite Abhishek as he diligently does, posted this new book by Princeton Professor Gary Bass called "Blood Telegram" about TSPA genocide against Bengalis in 1971 and US allying itself with the killers and supporting them (all the arms used to butcher Bengali Hindus were of US origin) while threatening India.
Now the book has come out, and here are 2 reviews. First, I was surprised to find Economist, a US ruling establishment mouthpiece actually agreeing with Prof Gary Bass, and calls that episode a "shameful moment" (perhaps because Prof Gary Bass was a former Economist reporter

)
http://www.economist.com/news/books-and ... licy-blood
Now, here comes the other review by some nut job called Peter Kann, a "Pulitzer prize winner" for his 1971 reporting. Even ISI could not have done a better job. Just look at his contempt and disdain for Indian claim on humanitarian crisis. Just look at the casualness with which he dismisses the racist contempt Nixon and Kissinger have for Indians and Bangladeshis. And look at how he actually justifies the 7th fleet and encouraging Chinese troop build up that prevented India from attacking west TSP. Ad finally, this choot says that Gary Bass did not take into account the opinions of TSPA who was only fighting a battle for territorial survival, while India used the crisis to dismember TSP. BTW: Uneven recommended this review to me

.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... %3Darticle
Finally, I read the reviews of the book on Amazon. Man, the US consul general in Daaca at that time, Archer Blood is indeed a principled tall man. Hats off to him
http://www.amazon.com/The-Blood-Telegra ... 55&s=books
For the United States, as Archer Blood understood, a small number of atrocities are so awful that they stand outside of the normal day-to-day flow of diplomacy: the Armenian genocide, the Holocaust, Cambodia, Bosnia, Rwanda. When we think of U.S. leaders failing the test of decency in such moments, we usually think of uncaring disengagement: Franklin Roosevelt fighting World War II without taking serious steps to try to rescue Jews from the Nazi dragnet, or Bill Clinton standing idly by during the Rwandan genocide.5
But Pakistan’s slaughter of its Bengalis in 1971 is starkly different. Here the United States was allied with the killers. The White House was actively and knowingly supporting a murderous regime at many of the most crucial moments. There was no question about whether the United States should intervene; it was already intervening on behalf of a military dictatorship decimating its own people.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 24 Sep 2013 20:15
by vishvak
About US aid and cover to Pakistan during genocide in West Bengal - US also led a gaggle of western/arap interests in UNSC by forcing anti-India resolutions when genocide was ongoing.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1513521
the whole American and western/arap cabal came on top for protecting barbarians at the cost of Bengali samaaj.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 24 Sep 2013 20:18
by svinayak
CRamS wrote:Guys, if you want to get a glimpse of the sick cold-war mentality against India that pervades DC, check this out. Many months ago, our fellow BRite Abhishek as he diligently does, posted this new book by Princeton Professor Gary Bass called "Blood Telegram" about TSPA genocide against Bengalis in 1971 and US allying itself with the killers and supporting them (all the arms used to butcher Bengali Hindus were of US origin) while threatening India.
Now the book has come out, and here are 2 reviews. First, I was surprised to find Economist, a US ruling establishment mouthpiece actually agreeing with Prof Gary Bass, and calls that episode a "shameful moment" (perhaps because Prof Gary Bass was a former Economist reporter

)
Anybody figured why thay have to write this now after 40 years of the incident
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 02:05
by Philip
It's why I've posted the details about the US's track record of "false flag" ops.There is no conscience pricking the US in its goal of global control.From NSA snooping of nations and individuals abroad to use of terror by proxies.See how the Brazilian Pres. has reacted to US chicanery at the UN,while our very own defender of the nation's honour could best be described in the immortal words of Lily Langtry (about her husband),"he was merely a ma(u)n" !
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... rveillance
Brazilian president: US surveillance a 'breach of international law'
Dilma Rousseff's scathing speech to UN general assembly the most serious diplomatic fallout over revelations of US spying
Julian Borger New York
theguardian.com, Tuesday 24 September 2013 17.27 BST
Dilma Rousseff UN general assembly
Brazilian president Dilma Rousseff speaks at the United Nations general assembly. Photograph: Spencer Platt/Getty Images
Brazil's president, Dilma Rousseff, has launched a blistering attack on US espionage at the UN general assembly, accusing the NSA of violating international law by its indiscriminate collection of personal information of Brazilian citizens and economic espionage targeted on the country's strategic industries.
Rousseff's angry speech was a direct challenge to President Barack Obama, who was waiting in the wings to deliver his own address to the UN general assembly, and represented the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.
Rousseff had already put off a planned visit to Washington in protest at US spying, after NSA documents leaked by Snowden revealed that the US electronic eavesdropping agency had monitored the Brazilian president's phone calls, as well as Brazilian embassies and spied on the state oil corporation, Petrobras.
"Personal data of citizens was intercepted indiscriminately. Corporate information – often of high economic and even strategic value – was at the centre of espionage activity.
"Also, Brazilian diplomatic missions, among them the permanent mission to the UN and the office of the president of the republic itself, had their communications intercepted," Rousseff said, in a global rallying cry against what she portrayed as the overweening power of the US security apparatus.
"Tampering in such a manner in the affairs of other countries is a breach of international law and is an affront of the principles that must guide the relations among them, especially among friendly nations. A sovereign nation can never establish itself to the detriment of another sovereign nation. The right to safety of citizens of one country can never be guaranteed by violating fundamental human rights of citizens of another country."
Washington's efforts to smooth over Brazilian outrage over NSA espionage have so far been rebuffed by Rousseff, who has proposed that Brazil build its own internet infrastructure.
"Friendly governments and societies that seek to build a true strategic partnership, as in our case, cannot allow recurring illegal actions to take place as if they were normal. They are unacceptable," she said.
"The arguments that the illegal interception of information and data aims at protecting nations against terrorism cannot be sustained. Brazil, Mr President, knows how to protect itself. We reject, fight and do not harbour terrorist groups," Rousseff said.
"As many other Latin Americans, I fought against authoritarianism and censorship and I cannot but defend, in an uncompromising fashion, the right to privacy of individuals and the sovereignty of my country," the Brazilian president said. She was imprisoned and tortured for her role in a guerilla movement opposed to Brazil's military dictatorship in the 1970s.
"In the absence of the right to privacy, there can be no true freedom of expression and opinion, and therefore no effective democracy. In the absence of the respect for sovereignty, there is no basis for the relationship among nations."
Rousseff called on the UN oversee a new global legal system to govern the internet. She said such multilateral mechanisms should guarantee the "freedom of expression, privacy of the individual and respect for human rights" and the "neutrality of the network, guided only by technical and ethical criteria, rendering it inadmissible to restrict it for political, commercial, religious or any other purposes.
"The time is ripe to create the conditions to prevent cyberspace from being used as a weapon of war, through espionage, sabotage and attacks against systems and infrastructure of other countries," the Brazilian president said.
As host to the UN headquarters, the US has been attacked from the general assembly many times in the past, but what made Rousseff's denunciation all the more painful diplomatically was the fact that it was delivered on behalf of large, increasingly powerful and historically friendly state.
Obama, who followed Rousseff to the UN podium, acknowledged
international alarm at the scale of NSA snooping revealed by Snowden.
He said: "Just as we reviewed how we deploy our extraordinary military
capabilities in a way that lives up to our ideals, we have begun to
review the way that we gather intelligence, so as to properly balance
the legitimate security concerns of our citizens and allies, with the
privacy concerns that all people share."
Brazilian officials said that Washington had told them about this
review but had noted that its results would not be known for months
and that Rousseff believed it was urgent to raise the need for an
international code of ethics for electronic espionage.
Rousseff will leave New York tomorrow without meeting Obama but
Brazil's new foreign minister, Luiz Alberto Figueiredo, will remain at
the UN throughout the week and will meet his opposite number, John
Kerry, Brazilian officials said, in an attempt to start mending the
rift between the two countries.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 02:20
by sanjaykumar
"He couldn't speak because many of his teeth had been displaced, but he waved limply to let us know that he was OK," he writes of seeing Singh at the hospital. "It's incredibly sad," Singh himself tells the New York Daily News. "It's not the neighborhood I know. I work in this community. It's just not American."
Gawker points out that Singh himself noted in a New York Times article on anti-Sikh violence last year that the turbans and long beards of Sikh men have often marked them out as targets for discrimination both in India and overseas.
Doesn't look like a terrosist at all.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 02:28
by SaiK
a more detailed nsa snooping article from chindu.. was it linked earlier here? if so, pl ignore
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/n ... epage=true
Don't understand why Indian communication system would not use home grown encryption techniques for comms.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 06:28
by Philip
More on how our great "strategic partner" planted bugs at Indian missions in the US and UN.Is our dearly beloved jellyfish of a PM going to award O'Bugger the Nehru P*ss Prize for it? He could take a leaf out of the Brazilian pres's book,but that would be the day!
NSA planted bugs at Indian missions in D.C., U.N.
They were penetrated by NSA bugs that can copy entire hard disks
Two of the most important nerve-centres of Indian diplomacy outside the country — the Permanent Mission of India at the United Nations and the embassy in Washington, DC — were targets of such sophisticated bugs implanted by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) that entire computer hard disks might have been copied by the American agency. The U.N. Mission building in New York and the embassy premises, including its annex, in Washington were on a top-secret list of countries and missions — many of them European allies of the U.S. — chosen for intensive spying.
According to a top-secret NSA document obtained by The Hindu, the NSA selected India’s U.N. office and the embassy as “location target” for infiltrating their computers and telephones with hi-tech bugs, which might have given them access to vast quantities of Internet traffic, e-mails, telephone and office conversations and even official documents stored digitally.
Since the NSA revelations began in June, U.S. President Barack Obama and other top American officials have all claimed that the surveillance activities were aimed exclusively at preventing terrorist attacks. But the targeted spying of Indian diplomatic buildings could have been done for political and commercial reasons — not the core responsibility of the NSA.
According to the 2010 COMINT (communication intelligence) document about “Close Access SIGADs”, the offices of Indian diplomats and high-ranking military officials stationed at these important posts were targets of four different kinds of electronic snooping devices:
Lifesaver, which facilitates imaging of the hard drive of computers
Highlands, which makes digital collection from implants
Vagrant, which collects data of open computer screens, and
Magnetic, which is a collection of digital signals
All the Indian “targets” in the list are marked with an asterisk, which, according to the document, means that they “have either been dropped or are slated to be dropped in the near future.” The NSA document doesn’t say when and how the bugs were implanted or how much of data was lifted from Indian offices, but all of them were on the “target” list for more than one type of data collection bugs.
Asked by The Hindu, why India’s U.N. mission and embassy, which clearly pose no terrorism threat to the U.S., were targeted by the NSA, a spokesman for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said: “The U.S. government will respond through diplomatic channels to our partners and allies. While we are not going to comment publicly on every specific alleged intelligence activity, as a matter of policy we have made clear that the United States gathers foreign intelligence of the type gathered by all nations. We value our cooperation with all countries on issues of mutual concern.”
But the spokesman didn’t answer The Hindu’s specific questions about why the top-secret document about spying on Indian missions shouldn’t be revealed or “reproduced by this newspaper in full or part”.
The document obtained by The Hindu reveals a scary scenario of breach of official secrecy of Indian missions and violation of privacy of Indian diplomats and other staff working in the three premises that were targeted.
Located between 2nd and 3rd Avenue on 43rd Street in the eastern part of Manhattan, the office of India’s permanent representative to the UN was on top of the list of Indian targets. Designed by the legendary Indian architect, Charles Correa, the building with a red granite base and a double-height penthouse porch at the top has the offices of India’s permanent representative, deputy permanent representative, a minister and political coordinator, six counsellors, a Colonel-rank military advisor and several other secretaries who look after different areas of India’s engagement with the world.
It was this building that was the main target of all four NSA bugs: from Lifesaver, which can send to the NSA copies of everything saved on the hard drives of office computers, to Vagrant, which can pick data straight from computer screens.
Though emails sent to India’s New York mission have remained unanswered so far, an Indian diplomat told The Hindu that the NSA eavesdropping might have done “extensive damage” to India’s stand on many international issues ranging from UN Security Council reforms to peacekeeping operations. “If they could implant bugs inside communications equipment of European Union office here and tap into their communications cables as well, there is no reason to believe that they didn’t snoop on us,” said the diplomat, speaking strictly on condition of anonymity. “We are still assessing the damage. If they managed to copy our hard drives, nothing is left to imagination.”
Second to the UN mission on the “target” list was the chancery building of the Indian Embassy located at 2107, Massachusetts Avenue in Washington, DC. Consisting of two adjacent buildings, one constructed in 1885 and the other in 1901, the chancery has offices of the Indian ambassador, the deputy chief of mission, several ministers and counsellors who head political, economic, defence and industry sections and three Defence Attachés representing the Indian Army, Air Force and Navy. This building, from where India maintains its diplomatic, trade and strategic ties with the U.S., was on the “target” list for three bugs that can make images of hard drives, pick digital signals and copy data of computer screens.
The third Indian building targeted by the NSA is the embassy annex located on 2536, Massachusetts Avenue in Washington, DC. The annex has three very important departments: the consular section, headed by a minister, looks after visa services; the commerce department, also headed by a minister, is involved in a broad range of trade issues and negotiations besides assisting the Indian businesses; and an office of the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), represented by a counsellor, takes care of cooperation between two countries in the field of space. This building was on the NSA “target” list for Highlands and Vagrant, which collect data from implants and computer screens respectively. It’s important to recall here that India’s space programme was targeted by another NSA tool PRISM, which intercepts and collects actual content on internet and telephone networks (as reported by The Hindu on Tuesday).
But officials at the Indian embassy claim that the premises are safe. “Adequate measures are in place in this regard and all steps taken to safeguard the national interest,” wrote an official in an email response to queries by The Hindu. Though no Indian official was willing to talk on record specifically about the NSA bugs mentioned in the top secret document, in private they admitted that it’s a violation of all norms and security. “If these bugs were implanted physically on our machinery, telephones and computers, it means a serious breach in security. Who did that job for them? It’s very alarming situation. Even if they accessed our data remotely, it is quite a serious matter because we try to de-bug our systems constantly,” said an Indian diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity.
The document obtained by The Hindu doesn’t say if the bugs were placed physically or if the machines at the Indian Mission and embassy were targeted through the internet network, bugs similar to those aimed at Indian offices were actually “implanted” in a commercially available encrypted fax machine used at missions such as that of the European Union. In a recent expose, The Guardian had revealed that the NSA infiltrated the internal computer network of several European embassies and the EU to intercept their communications. That had led to a roar of protests from European capitals.
Alarm bells have been ringing in New Delhi too since July when it was first reported that 38 embassies and diplomatic missions, including the Indian embassy in Washington, were targeted by the NSA. Reacting to the reports, the Ministry of External Affairs spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin had expressed concern at the “disconcerting” reports and said that the government would take up the concern with the Americans. But at that time, the Indian government was neither aware of the fact that the UN mission in New York too was a “target” of NSA bugging nor did the officials know a thing about the nature and capabilities of the bugs used for snooping on their offices.
The Indian mission to the UN has so far not reacted to either the reports of snooping on foreign missions nor to The Hindu’s queries sent to its office in New York, but the embassy officials have discussed the issue with their American counterparts. “Our government has expressed concerns over the reports of monitoring of the Indian Embassy in Washington, D.C. by U.S. agencies, and the Embassy in Washington D.C. has raised these concerns with the U.S. government,” said an embassy official in an email repose to The Hindu’s queries, without elaborating at what level and in which meeting the issue was raised or what was the response of American officials.
But the U.S. officials have already made it clear that they would not “apologise” to anyone for the bugging of foreign mission, including the Indian embassy and New York office, as shown in NSA documents. “While we’re not going to comment publicly on the specifics of alleged intelligence activities, as a matter of policy we’ve made clear that the U.S. gathers foreign intelligence of the type gathered by all nations,” U.S. State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell had told reporters at his daily news conference on July 2, a day after the spying on European embassies was revealed for the first time in reports where India was just mentioned in a passing reference.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 06:43
by CRamS
vishvakJi, CosmoJi et. al,
If any of you guys have access to the New Yorker, can you post Pankaj Misra's review of "Blood Telegram"? Just curious to see if also does a Sarmila Bose, admiring Gen Niazi's "manhood".
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 11:33
by member_27444
Ok no wonder even JEM fell for Arunachalams Sankhyavahini project.
Unkil dropped out the moment he had better ways to snoop...
People who use camera phones are even more susceptible face time reveals lot more than your smiles and your dear Mille Cyrus wrecking ball
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 14:37
by JE Menon
I'm not quite clear on something.
What is the basis of this moaning about American snooping on India? Did we not expect it? Or did we think our new strategic partnership means the US wouldn't target "friends"? Or is it just the comprehensive nature of it that is alarming?
Or is it to prove a point that the US is not a "friend" - i.e. a friend of the type you may have in school, or even after growing up, who does you no "harm" (that you know of)?
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 14:48
by sum
^^ I honestly dont care about what snooping US has been doing on us but am more interested to know if we have been able to do even 0.1% of snooping of any kind on US?
Do the RAW, NTRO,MI, DIA ( and IB ) setups in the various embassies and consulates we have in US have any function to do and are actually doing some penetrating of the US monolith?
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 15:01
by JE Menon
Sum,
That's a different issue, a valid one, but not a response to my query about the breastbeating going on about the US snooping.
The question of whether we are doing any snooping on the US is not likely to be answered to our satisfaction until some Snowden like character pops up with tons of data. But, open source literature suggests that we do, and that we are fairly ruthless about it - especially in terms of tapping into internet traffic (global), via the undersea cables (no doubt among other things).
James Bamford's Shadow Factory has some details in this regard. It is also an excellent book to read in any case, to get a good idea of the subject.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 15:20
by sum
James Bamford's Shadow Factory has some details in this regard. It is also an excellent book to read in any case, to get a good idea of the subject.
JEM-saar,
have read that book and pretty impressed by it. No quibble with your post but the doubt arose since BRF-ites brought up the subject and i wanted to know from a long time!
I was more concerned about whether we have any capabilities of HUMINT and actively bugging targets inside US mainland ( like they do to us) etc or are our intel folks posted in US just there as a paid holiday and for overt intel liasons? ( as has been alleged in past about all RAW officers fighting for US/EU postings and Afg/Iran/TSP stations etc being left without any volunteers)
Btw, the switching stations in Mumbai which Bamford mentions in Shadow factory as a dream for every intel agency has been tapped into by the CIA if news reports posted in BR about CIA mentioning a major success in physically installing taps in a major switching hub in a "South Asian country" are true
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 15:31
by JE Menon
>>Btw, the switching stations in Mumbai which Bamford mentions in Shadow factory as a dream for every intel agency has been tapped into by the CIA if news reports posted in BR about CIA mentioning a major success in physically installing taps in a major switching hub in a "South Asian country" are true
Indeed, and recall who owns the cables... and what sort of discussions went on before Reliance and Tata purchased them from the American companies who owned them in the first place.
Let us not make a reflexive habit of running down everything about the country and the state just because a political party is no to our liking . It will be useful, or BRF will become useless rather, if members simply keep vomiting cynicism relentlessly with no consideration for the possibility that others might be just as moral, diligent and upright in doing their work as our own patriotic participants are (a general comment not directed at you sum).
>>I was more concerned about whether we have any capabilities of HUMINT and actively bugging targets inside US mainland ( like they do to us) etc
As mentioned before, in or from India, only a traitor will give you the details - unless the leak is authorised.
>>or are our intel folks posted in US just there as a paid holiday and for overt intel liasons? ( as has been alleged in past about all RAW officers fighting for US/EU postings and Afg/Iran/TSP stations etc being left without any volunteers)
Here it is a matter of personal choice. What do you want to believe, or as so obvious in some cases here, project? That they are there on paid holidays and liaison work (very necessary and important btw)? Or do you want to believe that these folks will have the at least the same sort of diligence that you (presumably Indian) or others Indians or OICs on this forum, have in doing whatever job you/they are doing now. To some extent your choice of what you believe (in the absence of solid evidence) depends on the kind of person you are, the extent of information you have access to, and to your own level of intelligence and analytical capability.
However, no one in GoI will make too much of an effort to change your mind, one way or the other. Because both are useful.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 19:42
by ramana
MMS in the last UN visit of his reign carries $5B tribute to US
MMS carries whopping $5B shopping list to US
Part of that will be recycled as AIDs to TSP to keep it running.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 20:11
by Sagar G
Viv S wrote:The Javelin/Spike is a man-portable missile for the infantry while the SAMHO is vehicle-mounted, cannon-launched or for static defences. You can't use them interchangeably anymore than you can use the infantry and armour interchangeably.
This poster lists "Infantry Combat" as one of the launch platforms.
Viv S wrote:The plain vanilla Nag is still in the late development stage with trials to continue in 2014 with the HELINA being even further away. But you think the IA would approach the DRDO for an alternative to the Javelin and Spike?
Yes it's the duty of IA to approach DRDO and ask for weapon system it wants well in advance instead of waiting for decades and when shit hit's the roof calling for import under the guise of "critical requirement". DRDO chief is on record that when the IA asks for a man portable version they will provide one in 2 yrs. add 2 more for testing and fine tuning by 5th year it can well be in production. The pace with which procurement in India happens for "critical" items the chances of an indigenous version coming online is more than an imported one.
Viv S wrote:Back off from sharing technology? I'm saying at the outset that ToT of core components will be minimal. The issue was to examine the programs's utility for production workshare.
Again you discuss things which you have somehow imagined that I am talking about. My stand has been the same from the beginning share technology first and then we will talk about any paper NG missile.
Viv S wrote:Unfortunately your REAL question/statement was about how it wasn't possible to make money of the US in JV as they're the 'seller'.
OK so cat is out of the bag now since unable to provide a single proof of your claim that a technology buyer country will make more than the country that is creating the technology you are resorting to full blown manipulation of the actaul question which I asked and have clarified it umpteen times so that you understand well but since you don't want to understand it and are hell bent in driving your own agenda I am henceforth not going to entertain you regarding your "proof" about the same. You can keep doing madarsa maths and indulge in self back patting but don't drag me into it.
Viv S wrote:Since your having trouble grasping it, I'll restate exchange as simply as I possibly can and I'll use the $75 million/unit price that YOU claim is correct -........
Pretty rich coming from you since you can't even comprehend what has been posted so let me tell you that the figure is not given by me it's by LM and I had asked you previously to read the SAR report about F-35 but you haven't done that as well. If you want to indulge in more madarsa maths then $85 million is the one you should be using.
Using selected words in caps doesn't make your post factually correct.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 20:13
by Sagar G
Exactly the reason why I am hell bent against any military deal with America. Each and every penny spent by India in strengthening american MIC will come to bite us back eventually. We already have witnessed couple of ambushes expect more to come.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 20:28
by Sagar G
NRao don't be naive, the sudden "closeness" of Americans is due to the fact that even after all the tech denial regimes they haven't been able to stop our growth both economically and technically which will continue more in the coming decade. Since they haven't been able to stop us so now they want to join us and hence all the sugar coated talk. Yes they have a strong R&D but that doesn't mean that we won't be able to do the same thing without American help infact without American help we have done so well that now they want to join us, or so it looks.
"Battle field experience" !!! That's your reason for joining hands with Khan ??? What were our defence forces doing during 62,65,71,99 playing dumb charades ??? The battlefield experience they have goes into developing there weapons similarly the battle field experience that our forces have must go into developing weapons that will meet our requirements. Yes there might be some areas where we can share our experiences but that's all. I don't see any logic behind looking at US with starry eyes because they have battlefield experience of killing children's and women's against diddlysquat enemies. We fought a war with a nuclear country, when US beats that then come and sell me the "battlefield experience" thing.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 20:49
by vishvak
Help progress etc is favourable till the products are sold.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 25 Sep 2013 22:43
by KrishnaK
JE Menon wrote:I'm not quite clear on something.
What is the basis of this moaning about American snooping on India? Did we not expect it? Or did we think our new strategic partnership means the US wouldn't target "friends"? Or is it just the comprehensive nature of it that is alarming?
Or is it to prove a point that the US is not a "friend" - i.e. a friend of the type you may have in school, or even after growing up, who does you no "harm" (that you know of)?
JEM, I think it's the wherewithal the US has had and continues to have w.r.t. other countries. The US seems to be able to trample over others privacy/security interests and still force them to engage with the US on account of other leverage.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 00:24
by TSJones
That's a nice shopping list, Ramana.
You add that to the C-17s, the P-8 Neptunes and the Apache choppers and some other gear and you are talking some serious money.
And I think I know why this is all happening.
It's because of the nuclear deal brokered by Bush.
Really, I didn't think anything was going to come out of the deal, especially since the US doesn't do a lot things concerning nuclear power plants. There was very little benefit for the US. Maybe some engineering work but that's about it. Nothing to write home about. And there is all the hoopla about liability law , etc. No soup for the US, won't happen.
But wow is India stepping forward with the purchases. This is made in the USA stuff. High value, high wage products. I'm betting India will want some more P-8 Neptunes too. This won't stop if everything goes well.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 00:26
by ramana
Right. It provides 10K mfg jobs /per Billion spent.
Also both GE and Westinghouse power reactor divisions are owned by Japanese companies:Toshiba and some other.
Combustion Engineering and Babcock and Wilcox got out of it long ago.
Yet Ombaba will whine about software H1 visas, which also benefit local economy by cutting costs.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 01:18
by Prem
'Are they good at 7-Eleven?' CNBC 'Squawk Box' co-host Joe Kernen uses racial stereotypes, offensive Indian accent on airKernen apologized following the awkward exchange with colleagues Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. 'Alright, I'm sorry, I take it back. I apologize, before I have to.'
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen ... z2fwAqLwZP
CNBC "Squawk Box" co-host Joe Kernen put his foot squarely in his mouth during Friday's show when a light exchange about India's currency turned tasteless.Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin were discussing India's central bank when Quick mentioned that she still had rupees left from a trip abroad.The conversation quickly devolved when she displayed a two rupee bills — a 50 and a 10.Becky Quick shows off rupee's from a trip to India and the conversation devolved from there. "Gandhi's on the rupee. Look at that," Sorkin said.Kernen repeatedly said "Gandhi" in a bad Indian accent, but the conversation only deteriorated from there."No, I can't do it. I was going to say something," Kernen said.Perhaps sensing what was coming next, Quick said, "Please don't.""I really can't?" Kernan responded."No, you can't," said Quick.Undaunted, Kernan responded: "Are they good at 7-Eleven?"After Quick admonishes him for the "insulting" comment, Kernen tries to backtrack: "It is. Alright, I'm sorry, I take it back. I apologize, before I have to."
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 01:22
by Prem
NSA accused of hacking into India's nuclear systems
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/24/nsa- ... -programs/
According to Edward Snowden's cache of documents, the NSA has been delving deeper into India's servers than many could have imagined. The Hindu is reporting that, in addition to the usual PRISM snooping, the agency also vacuumed up data on the country's nuclear, political and space programs. The newspaper says it has a document, entitled "A Week in the Life of PRISM reporting," which allegedly shows that discussions between high-ranking politicians, nuclear and space scientists were being monitored in "real-time." The revelation comes a few months after Kapil Sibal, India's IT chief, denied that any such surveillance was being undertaken. Who knows? Maybe he was spending so much time on his other projects that he missed the clues. For its part, the US has insisted that its hands are clean in India. Back in June, Secretary of State John Kerry said that the US doesn't look at individual conversations but instead "randomly surveys" data in order to discover communications that are "linked to terrorists."
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 02:14
by NRao
Sagar G wrote:NRao don't be naive, the sudden "closeness" of Americans is due to the fact that even after all the tech denial regimes they haven't been able to stop our growth both economically and technically which will continue more in the coming decade. Since they haven't been able to stop us so now they want to join us and hence all the sugar coated talk. Yes they have a strong R&D but that doesn't mean that we won't be able to do the same thing without American help infact without American help we have done so well that now they want to join us, or so it looks.
SG,
A few items of interest, briefly:
* I am tiring of these discussions
* Because I am interested in what happens ("dot") and never in why or how they happen
* Again, I sit and connect those "dots" to "predict" what direction a relationship could go
* And, all I have said is that the Indo-US relationship will grow closer - I have never said why
* I have ALSO stated that the very same relationship will grow further apart too (which you seem to have totally missed)
* And, I do not recall ever stating that either is good or bad
I do read what happened, but never register why or how it happened. Waste of my time.
"Battle field experience" !!! That's your reason for joining hands with Khan ??? What were our defence forces doing during 62,65,71,99 playing dumb charades ??? The battlefield experience they have goes into developing there weapons similarly the battle field experience that our forces have must go into developing weapons that will meet our requirements. Yes there might be some areas where we can share our experiences but that's all. I don't see any logic behind looking at US with starry eyes because they have battlefield experience of killing children's and women's against diddlysquat enemies. We fought a war with a nuclear country, when US beats that then come and sell me the "battlefield experience" thing.
* I do not care about joining hands
* "experience" has multiple levels. All I am saying is that there are 1/2 levels at which these two nations have excellent synergies
* I expect a few things to happen. IF they do (they may not), then it will be rather dramatic in nature, and
* IMHO, there are too many parties on both sides, so I feel it will happen
* Tech (Javelin NG/EMALS/etc) will be a very small part
Let us see.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 02:35
by Amber G.
JE Menon wrote: ..
Let us not make a reflexive habit of running down everything about the country and the state just because a political party is no to our liking . It will be useful, or BRF will become useless rather, if members simply keep vomiting cynicism relentlessly with no consideration for the possibility that others might be just as moral, diligent and upright in doing their work as our own patriotic participants are (a general comment not directed at you sum).
FWIW, JEM Sirji, for some one who has been here since (at least) 1998, I think many of us have a feeling that BRF has already become quite useless in that regard -- for precisely the reason you so aptly articulated. If one think that there is some exaggeration, one only has to look, at, any random post here, say this one about
O'Bomber the "Manchurian President".
It's not that silly posts like this appear here, it is just that little else of value appears, JMHO.
I know the physics prof said this about the nuke dhaga but it seems that too many dhagas in brf are such that , it seems that the only creativity there is to find new gaalis for those who have a slightly different point of view.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 02:49
by Lilo
Amber G. wrote:JE Menon wrote: ..
Let us not make a reflexive habit of running down everything about the country and the state just because a political party is no to our liking . It will be useful, or BRF will become useless rather, if members simply keep vomiting cynicism relentlessly with no consideration for the possibility that others might be just as moral, diligent and upright in doing their work as our own patriotic participants are (a general comment not directed at you sum).
FWIW, JEM Sirji, for some one who has been here since (at least) 1998, I think many of us have a feeling that BRF has already become quite useless in that regard -- for precisely the reason you so aptly articulated. If one think that there is some exaggeration, one only has to look, at, any random post here, say this one about
O'Bomber the "Manchurian President".
It's not that silly posts like this appear here, it is just that little else of value appears, JMHO.
I know the physics prof said this about the nuke dhaga but it seems that too many dhagas in brf are such that , it seems that the only creativity there is to find new gaalis for those who have a slightly different point of view.
Amber g ji,
The post is not calling "obomber" a "muslim Manchurian president ". Its informing that recent Kenyan incidents are becoming additional gist for the rumour mills which long used to peddle such stuff in massa - which is actually so - should have gone into understanding massa thread though.
Support to rest of your post. But as its political season and with the kind of mismanagement occurring in desh - please to bear with us till 2014 takes place.
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 03:16
by JE Menon
>>JEM, I think it's the wherewithal the US has had and continues to have w.r.t. other countries. The US seems to be able to trample over others privacy/security interests and still force them to engage with the US on account of other leverage.
KrishnaK, so what you are saying is that participants are upset with the fact that the US has accumulated the power to do these things you mention above... and so instead of (a) discussing what to do about it, or (b) learning to emulate and accumulate power in the same or similar way (because apparently it is a nice position to be in), participants are describing, and re-describing, this situation with a weird kind of impotent jealousy or anger? Surely, that cannot be the sum of it...?
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 03:17
by eklavya
Blood meridian
A new history sheds fresh light on a shameful moment in American foreign policy
Sep 21st 2013
The Blood Telegram: Nixon, Kissinger and a Forgotten Genocide. By Gary Bass. Knopf; 499 pages
UNTIL 1971 Pakistan was made up of two parts: west and east. Both Muslim-dominated territories were born out of India’s bloody partition 24 years earlier, though they existed awkwardly 1,600km apart, divided by hostile Indian territory. Relations between the two halves were always poor. The west dominated: it had the capital, Islamabad, and greater political, economic and military clout. Its more warlike Pashtuns and prosperous Punjabis, among others, looked down on Bengali easterners as passive and backward.
The split into Pakistan and Bangladesh was perhaps inevitable. It began in late 1970, after Pakistan’s first national elections. To the shock of West Pakistanis, an easterner, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, won a sweeping victory, and was poised to lead the country. His Awami League wanted greater rights for Bengalis. But the army chiefs and politicians in Islamabad would not countenance his taking office. They arrested him and the army began repressing eastern protesters.
Bengalis flocked to join the rebel forces who were fighting for independence. West Pakistani soldiers stationed in the east, plus a few local supporters, began targeting students, writers, politicians; especially the Hindu minority. Soldiers massacred civilians, burned villages and sent millions fleeing to India. Eventually some 10m became refugees, mostly Hindus. At least 300,000 people were killed; some say the death toll was over 1m.
Seen from America, where Richard Nixon was president, the war was a domestic Pakistani affair. India’s leader, Indira Gandhi, claimed otherwise. She called the floods of refugees a humanitarian disaster that threatened regional stability. She wanted international action, demanding that America tell Pakistan’s leaders to stop the killing. Nixon, urged by his national security adviser, Henry Kissinger, refused.
In “The Blood Telegram” Gary Bass, a Princeton academic (who once wrote for The Economist), sets out to assess America’s handling of the war. He argues that the killings amounted to a genocide: Hindus, as a distinct minority, were chosen for annihilation and expulsion. He asks why Nixon continued actively to support the Pakistani leaders who were behind it.
At the behest of Mr Kissinger, Nixon sent military planes and other materiel to Pakistan, even though he knew this broke American law. He deployed an American naval task force to the Bay of Bengal to intimidate India, which had begun helping rebels in East Pakistan. Most extreme, he secretly asked China to send troops to India’s borders. He did so accepting a risk of Soviet retaliation, even that nuclear bombs might be “lobbed” around in response.
Nixon and Mr Kissinger stood with Pakistan, even as they knew of the extent of the slaughter. Their own diplomats told them about it. The centrepiece of Mr Bass’s gripping and well-researched book is the story of how America’s most senior diplomat in East Pakistan, Archer Blood, the consul-general in Dhaka, sent regular, detailed and accurate reports of the bloodshed. Early on he stated that a “selective genocide” was under way.
Blood and his colleagues protested that America should not support Pakistan’s rulers. Then, 20 of them sent a dissenting telegram (the “Blood telegram” of the book’s title) condemning America’s policy. It was an extreme and idealistic step for a diplomat, whose career was soon cut short. Though the telegram did not change American policy, it rates as an historic document. Such open dissent is extremely rare.
Mr Bass does a good job of explaining Nixon’s wilful support of Pakistan. Using newly released recordings of White House conversations between the president and Mr Kissinger, he sets out with admirable clarity what else was at stake. In part it was personal. Nixon, a man of few friends, was notably fond of Pakistan’s military ruler, Yahya Khan, a gruff, dim-witted, whisky-drinking general. Nixon compared the Pakistani favourably to Abraham Lincoln. By contrast he despised India’s wheedling civilian politicians, reserving a particular dislike for Gandhi, whom in private he frequently called a “bitch” and “witch”.
More important, Pakistan was a loyal cold-war ally, whereas India was seen as leaning towards the Soviet Union. Crucially, Mr Kissinger early in 1971 was using Pakistan as an essential secret conduit to China. He flew via Islamabad to Beijing to arrange for Nixon to make his own trip to see Mao Zedong. Better relations with China would allow America to wind down the war in Vietnam.
Ultimately, Mr Kissinger did much to set America’s course. He argued that America should pay no heed to domestic horrors in Pakistan, saying “you can’t go to war over refugees”, and warned that India was a greater threat to international order. Indian “b@st@rds”, he agreed with Nixon, needed a “mass famine” to cut them down to size.
Mr Bass depicts Mr Kissinger as increasingly erratic, perhaps overworked, as East Pakistan’s secession became inevitable. He is quoted calling the conflict “our Rhineland” (in reference to the start of the second world war) and warning that India would “rape Pakistan”.
Mr Kissinger adopts a magisterial tone in the one chapter he devoted to the India-Pakistan crisis in his 1979 work, “The White House Years”. He refused to speak to Mr Bass for this book, and glosses over the Blood telegram in his memoirs, never explaining why he ignored the entreaties of the diplomats on the ground. That is a pity, because America’s response to the war has reverberated over the years.
The 1971 war poisoned regional affairs for decades. It ended when India’s army intervened, having supported East Pakistan’s rebels for months, and crushed the Pakistani forces within days. Pakistan was humiliated, yet no Pakistani soldier has been held to account for the mass slaughter that provoked the war. Pakistanis by and large prefer not to discuss it. The war did convince them that India might next try to break up the remaining western rump of their country, perhaps by supporting Baluchi separatists on the border with Afghanistan. A sharp mutual suspicion still lingers between the neighbours, helping ensure that Pakistan’s army dominates—and damages—the country still.
Nor did the war do much for India. Eventually the refugees went home, but relations with Bangladesh soon soured. At home Gandhi became suddenly more popular. But she then descended into authoritarianism, even suspending democracy. Inside Bangladesh the war remains a live political issue as alleged collaborators in the conflict (all opposition leaders) are being tried by a flawed, local war-crimes tribunal. This week, one defendant was sentenced to death by the Supreme Court.
Could things have been different if America, having listened to Blood, had pressed Pakistan not to slaughter its own people in 1971? Mr Bass does not speculate directly. Yet if a peaceful secession of Bangladesh had been possible, many lives would have been saved and a source of deep division in a troubled region would have been removed
Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion
Posted: 26 Sep 2013 03:22
by ramana
Ekalayva, Until Pearl Harbor and Nazi declaration of war, US businesses had many investments in Occupied Europe. There was a strong 'neutralist' movement led by Charles Lindbergh.