Indian Naval Discussion

[Aditya_V]

with even a corvette costing north of $500 mil these days, very few nations will be able to afford a ocean going navy.

we need something like the Kidd or Spruance class hulls of the USN which were mass produced in bulk and didnt cost the earth. something like the P28 modded to a more general role. but the cost of $600 mil per P28 is also scary.

maybe the new Saryu class long range OPV is best produced in bulk and armanents added.

16 years backs Pakis could buy 3 Agostas for USD 1 Billion. Now the costs have really escalated worldwide. Is it just of cost of Metals and Wages. I remember reading BR in 2000 and that time cost of ships of 1/5th of what they are today.

[Kartik]

Why the hike in the price of hte Talwar class frigates? the first batch of 3 ordered in 1997 cost the IN $1 billion, the second batch of 3 ordered in 2006 cost $1.6 billion and now the price has jumped 2 fold to $3 billion for 3? A frigate that costs $1 billion each is very steep !

Be vary of the cost since its a report that just states it and not an official price.

But if you look at the cost the first three ordered in 1998 was $900 million , another 3 ordered in 2006 was $ 1.6 billion roughly 70 to 80 % rise compared to first and if they order and the cost stated is say for argument sake the same i.e $3billion then its almost 70-80 % over the second deal.

More like rising cost of raw material , military inflation cost ,cost of weapons/electronics etc .....even the cost of P-15A built at our yards have gone up exponentially due to delays. Time & Cost Spikes In Indian Warship Efforts, Parliament Told

I still cannot even figure out how the second Talwar batch deal's price went up by 70-80% over a period of 9 years. That's an escalation of nearly 10% per year which is unreasonable, even accounting for cost of integrating the Brahmos on the second batch. Now, in another 7 years we find another such massive escalation and that too for Talwar class frigates?! Thats more expensive than a La Fayette class frigate and those aren't cheap either..but these are Russian, supposedly cost effective for the capabilities they bring..with this price, they're exorbitant. heck, Aegis class F100 Alvaro de Bazan class frigates are cheaper than this $1 billion per unit being quoted.

But Austin, you may be right, that may just be a journo's guess as to the cost of the deal, but if its true, its just too expensive.

[Austin]

Most of the cost in a ship or say 85 % cost are its Weapons System , Sensors ,Radar ,Sonars and Electronics , then comes propulsion and finally Hull itself.

Unless we know exactly how much each of these cost in Talwar class frigate and what kind of ding dong does the next class bring in we will not have a clear picture.

I think when you sign a contract be it Ship or Aircraft you not know sign the contract for ships itself with its entire suite but also includes training , some amount of additional spares/weapons and with a year of warranty.

[Kartik]

Nevertheless, for a follow-on contract, such a high figure is just hard to digest, considering we know how much the earlier batches cost and they'd have had all of the training/spares/warranty support etc. included in their contract costs.

[Austin]

Nevertheless, for a follow-on contract, such a high figure is just hard to digest, considering we know how much the earlier batches cost and they'd have had all of the training/spares/warranty support etc. included in their contract costs.

If the cost is high and its not worth it then lets not buy it and fund indigenous program , MOD/IN have choice to make between the two.

[harbans]

IIT Kharagpur has Naval Architecture courses taught to B tech and also to IN cadets.
Can't they deign and make some boats?

Naval Archs don't design ships in the sense you are putting up here. Yes they do make the lines plans, do the intact and damage stability analysis, stress analysis and hull designs etc. Yet that is done after a whole lot of other requirements/ specifications are put up together. I cannot design the hull first and then try and fit appropriate equipment into it for example. A Naval Arch and that too an IIT Btech grad will have hardly any idea of what propulsion machinery, auxiliary systems, control systems, warfare systems will go into a vessel in the first place. It's only after all that is decided and completely chalked out that the Naval Architect takes in and works out the rest keeping in mind the specifications listed. Compartments, tanks and bulkheads allotted as per requirements. Every machinery and it's associated piping, weights have to be decided much before the hull design takes place and the NA can make the necessary calculations. If you ever go and see a Ship being made, one will find various departments each specialized working in a very integrated manner to get the ship up in mandated time. Integrating/ coordinating that is a very key and specialized part of building and completing the project. So if i have to put a certain class of missile on deck i need to know the thrust/ heat produced. According to that the material selection for the area exposed, strengthening needed is selected. On the basis of that input only does the NA work out his own calculations. The NA is an integral part of a ship design yes, but only in conjunction with many other departments that have a major say. A Naval Arch on his own knows close to Zilch about ship systems and those who know a lot about individual ship systems may know close to zilch about damage stability and analysis or lines plans and collision bulkheads.

[Kartik]

Nevertheless, for a follow-on contract, such a high figure is just hard to digest, considering we know how much the earlier batches cost and they'd have had all of the training/spares/warranty support etc. included in their contract costs.

If the cost is high and its not worth it then lets not buy it and fund indigenous program , MOD/IN have choice to make between the two.

If an imported frigate costs more than an indigenously built destroyer, then its certainly too expensive. The only issue with indigenous construction will be schedule due to existing orders and delays that are to be expected (not that the Talwar class was delay free, but its still less than delays at Indian shipyards). In such a scenario, a competition may be more sensible and may elicit far more sensible price quotes from the Russians.

[SNaik]

Looks like Sovremenny class destroyer trying to deal with a little rough sea.

That's Pr.956 DDG Admiral Ushakov at SS9.

[harbans]

Folks doesn't belong directly here but just couldn't resist the admiration of the seamanship

Most probably there is no 'seamanship' at all involved. The Vessel would be at an assigned course on auto pilot mode.

[abhishek-nayak]

Above doesn't seem to be a "wife-swapping" situation... is there any more on this out there?

this is a different case, this is a 5 year old case where a wife of a senior naval officer eloped with this Lt commander and divorced her husband to marry him....

This kind of relationship is an offense under both civil laws and military laws.Under military laws it falls under "stealing affection of brother officers wife" whereby the officer found to be indulging in any kind of extramarital affair is dismissed from service.

[abhishek-nayak]

JEM here is the actual main report , above is some past case
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130413/j ... 781066.jsp

as usual, when the allegations are by a woman, all men are presumed guilty in the media until proven innocent, so this is being picked up far and wide incl the usual drain inspectors in the UK

i come from a military family and i am quite shocked with this woman's allegation...if proven true then the officers involved should not only be court martialed but thrown to jail..

we don't want reprehensible characters to stain our military forces....


having said that harassment of junior officers and their wives by senior officers and their wives is a known thing that has been going on for a long time but never i have ever heard of things going this far....

[kmc_chacko]

everybody forgetting one main thing i.e., we are in short of subs if we don't act now then there will be a day when Chinese subs toy with our surface vessels.

[Aditya_V]

The whole world except MOD and GOI are aware of it. May be the WKK crowd this is the ultimate Aman ki Asha, degrade our miltary capability to such and extent that no matter what TSP does we cannot respond.

[Austin]

Looks like Sovremenny class destroyer trying to deal with a little rough sea.

That's Pr.956 DDG Admiral Ushakov at SS9.

Thanks , Sea State 9 no wonder it was tossing up and down, From what i read they are authorized to give a 24 knots speed at SS 6, though limited to station-keeping speeds in SS 9

[harbans]

From what i see it's not SS9, maybe max 6..this is SS9 + for perspective (can make out from the whitehorse formations):

[youtube]LwKXfc_a4Ag&feature=related[/youtube]

[Austin]

Thats because of the camera angle , the DDG was being shot at from another ship likely Kuzesnotsov AC , in case of tanker its been shot at from the ship itself , in case of DDG if you can see the entire height of the bow in one frame, and waves flowing over it in other, it's at least SS 8, or even SS 9 (9-14 and > 14 meters wave height respectively).

[Austin]

Russia will help India build four destroyers

Baltic shipyard will produce four sets of shafts for Indian newest destroyers 15B project, which will be built at the shipyards of Mumbai from 2018 to 2024, told "Interfax" a source in the Russian defense industry.

"Under the terms of the contract concluded between the" Baltic shipbuilding plant "," Rosoboronexport "and foreign customer," Baltic Plant "must produce four sets of shafts in 2017," - says the official website of the company.

The report notes that the first contracts for the manufacture of such products are made now in the early 1990s, and the previous one - the manufacture of shafts for destroyers previous project (15A - approx.) - In 2007-2009.

A source in the Russian defense industry said that the shaft lines are for the four project 15B destroyers being built for the Indian Navy Ship Repairs in shipyards Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai.

The interviewee noted that in drafting the destroyer involved engineers from Northern Design Bureau (St. Petersburg).

Earlier, the Minister of Defence of India Arakaparambil Kurien Antony said that in January 2011, the National Defense Ministry has signed a contract with the shipyard MDL for the construction of four new destroyers 15B project. The ships to be built in series in July 2018, 2020, 2022 and 2024.

Destroyers Project 15B destroyers of the project are the development 15A of the "Delhi". The ships are designed to perform functions of the flagship in the focus groups and escort aircraft carriers.

[harbans]

Sovremenny class are ~6000 t displacement and draft of 6 meters/ It's bobbing up and down in 6 max 7 meter seas. The wave formations are solely wind based so look at the difference in the whitehorse formations in both videos and one can make the difference. The tanker is possibly displacing some 100k tons and has a draft double that of the DDG. It's facing 40-50 Kn sustained winds with higher gusts, the tanker a sustained 70 plus knot wind with higher gusts to 90 plus knots. That is what leads to the higher and continual whitehorse formations witnessed in the latter video. Anyways just posting for perspective.

[member_23370]

So we are still sticking with the zorya power plants for destroyers? Lets hope we stick with LM2500 for P-17a.

[John]

Why the hike in the price of hte Talwar class frigates? the first batch of 3 ordered in 1997 cost the IN $1 billion, the second batch of 3 ordered in 2006 cost $1.6 billion and now the price has jumped 2 fold to $3 billion for 3? A frigate that costs $1 billion each is very steep !

This is all speculation and wasn't even picked up by other MSM. Lets wait till we get an official press release i think they confused $$ for this with P-17A.

[Philip]

Gents,ladies too if lurking(!),remember that an LCS (littoral combat ship) costs about $750M and is so underarmed that there are serious doubts whether it can protect itself.Moreover,it simply cannot take ANY punishment,meant to be written off! When we were ordering the first lot of Talwars,the Russians gave us the option for the second set of three for the same price with a deadline for placing the order.Our overzealous babus in the MOD,did b*gger all,as it is only the taxpayer's money that is at stake (yours and mine) and so we dithered and paid an escalated price.We did the same too with the Scorpene's with an even bigger penalty.Also remember that Talwar series-3 will have further improvements over Talwar1 and 2,a newer SAM,and will definitely have the provision for accommodating the hypersonic version of Bmos when available.Thus the price will definitely be higher also taking into account inflation.

The Navy’s New Class of Warships: Big Bucks, Little Bang
By John Saye

Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/10/05/the-n ... z2QbSxHBoA

The Navy’s new Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) is not only staggeringly overpriced and chronically unreliable but — even if it were to work perfectly — cannot match the combat power of similar sized foreign warships costing only a fraction as much. Let’s take a deep dive and try to figure out why.

The story so far:

– Congress has funded the LCS program since February 2002. Its publically stated purpose was to create a new generation of surface combatants able to operate in dangerous shallow water and near-shore environments.

– By December 2009 the Navy had built two radically dissimilar prototypes, the mono-hulled USS Freedom (LCS-1) and the trimaran-hulled USS Independence (LSC-2).

– A year later it adopted both designs and decided to award block buy construction contracts for five more ships of each type.

– Since neither design had yet proven either its usefulness or functionality it seems that the Navy’s object was to make the LCS program “too big to fail” as soon as possible.

– It may be working: the 55-ship fleet is slated to cost more than $40 billion, giving each vessel a price tag north of $700 million, roughly double the original estimated cost.

Both LCS designs were supposed to be small (about 3,000 tons displacement), shallow-draft coastal warships that relied on simplicity, numbers and new technology to stay affordable and capable throughout their service lives.

Navy photo / Lt. Jan Shultis

The new technology was mainly robotics (unmanned air, surface and underwater vehicles) and modular weapons and sensors. The modular systems were a series of mission payload packages or modules; each designed to fit a common cargo/weapons bay or slot and focus the ship on a specific mission.

When the ship’s mission changed it could quickly swap its current module for one that supported the new mission. This was a way to combine the advantages of both single and multi-mission platforms.

Foreign navies had already applied the concept successfully. The Danish Navy’s “Standard Flex” series of weapon modules had in particular grabbed the U.S. Navy’s attention.

Each LCS also has a flight deck and hangar able to accommodate up to two H-60 helicopters or up to four MQ-8B helicopter drones (one helicopter and two to three drones would be a typical mix). In addition, an LCS can carry and operate surface and sub-surface drones. Current modules in development are for mine warfare (MIW), anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-surface warfare (ASUW).

The MIW and ASW modules are mostly sensors with only drone or helicopter launched weapons. The ASUW module is focused mainly on defeating speedboats and offers only two 30mm MK-46 guns and some short-ranged low payload Griffin missiles. None of these modules will even be testable until well into FY13 and none will be operational before FY16.

Outside of the modules an LCS has a permanent armament of a 57mm MK-110 automatic gun, some 0.50-caliber machineguns and a close defense missile system (RIM-116 SeaRAM).

Even with its modules the LCS compares poorly with similar-sized but much less expensive ships in foreign navies.

The new Russian Steregushchy-class frigate, for example, is (at 2,200 tons) about 30% smaller than an LCS and cost only 20-25% as much. Yet, it carries a 100mm automatic gun, 14.5-mm machineguns, close-in defense “Gatling gun” systems (AK-630), medium range surface to air missiles (S400 series), SS-N-25 anti-ship missiles (sub-sonic and shorter ranged than the US Harpoon but far more capable than the Griffin), 533-mm (21”) torpedoes, 324mm anti-submarine torpedoes and a helicopter. The ship is not only in production for the Russian Navy but also for the navies of Algeria and Indonesia. A version is also being built for China.

The Swedish Visby-class corvette was one of the models on which LCS was based. It carries the same 57mm gun plus antisubmarine rockets and torpedoes, anti-ship missiles, a radar-deflecting hull, and a helicopter pad (but no hangar, apparently). It can also reach 35 knots but it is only a fifth as large.

The Chinese have more than 80 Houbei-class fast-attack boats in service. Each costs only $40 million to build and displaces only 220 tons (one-fifteenth as much as an LCS). Yet they carry C-801 series anti-ship missiles that greatly outrange any weapon the LCS has.

About the only threat the LCS might handle is the “swarms” of Iranian machinegun and RPG-carrying speedboats in the Persian Gulf. Apart from the fact that the Iranian crisis will have been resolved for better or worse before most of the LCS fleet can be built, these Iranian small craft lack weapons big enough to menace any serious warship.

Navy photo / MCS 2nd Class Rosalie Garcia

However the LCS itself may be more vulnerable to these speedboats than the ships it is protecting from them. This is because the ballooning LCS construction costs caused the Navy to try to save money by ordering that future ships be built to commercial standards.

This will reduce their survivability level (protection of ship, crew, and vital systems) to (or below) the lowest level (of three) the Navy recognizes. Survivability testing has been cancelled, as it would cause too much damage to the test ship. Instead, the LCS is rated as not survivable in a “hostile combat environment.”

Worse, the Navy has admitted that, unlike the foreign systems they were modeled on, LCS modules will not be swappable within day or two as originally envisaged. Instead, the process can take weeks. Practical and political limitations on storing modules and supporting them overseas are likely to make module swapping possible only in U.S. shipyards. An LCS entering a combat theater will have to be in a single “come as you are” configuration that cannot adapt to mission changes.

The LCS does lead its foreign competitors when it comes to speed. At the Navy’s insistence, each LCS carries a set of diesels for cruising. It also has a suite of gas turbines that can at least for short spurts propel it at speeds as high as 50 knots.

By contrast the LCS’ foreign competitors rarely exceed 35 knots (the heavily-armed Steregushchy is only good for 26). However, speed at sea is a terribly expensive capability. Except for large nuclear-powered ships, very high speeds are only possible for limited times and in good weather. Incremental speed increases require geometric horsepower increases. Gas turbines generating more than 100,000 horsepower and their associated fuel tanks must leave the LCS little space for armor, weapons, sensors or crew accommodations. Though the Navy has not said so, it is likely that these gas turbines have been the source of many of the LCS’ mechanical problems.

Why is high speed so important? Even high-speed minesweeping does not require more than 25 knots or so. For chasing small boats the LCS’s size advantage will let it catch nominally faster craft if any kind of sea is running. If this is not enough, the LCS has its helicopters and drones. The LCS may need speed to deploy quickly over long distances but is unlikely to need it for tactical maneuver. Without its gas turbines the LCS could be small (and cheaper), like the Visby, or powerfully-armed, like the Steregushchy. Instead, it is neither.

When asked why the LCS has sacrificed so much for speed, Navy spokesmen tend to become vague. In a recent interview, Rear Admiral Thomas Rowden, the Navy’s chief of surface warfare, could only explain the LCS’ speed requirement with clichés such as “speed is life” (is the LCS really an airplane? Does it outrun cruise missiles?) or “more is better” (more speed but less of everything else?). He even quoted John Paul Jones asking for a fast ship to go “in harm’s way.” Such fatuous statements might satisfy a fourth-grade civics class but this contemptuous dismissal of legitimate taxpayer concerns speaks volumes about what the Navy thinks of the people who ultimately pay its bills.

The surface-warfare chief went on to say that the Navy had yet to settle key LCS issues regarding missions, tactics and the design features to support them. In a sane world, such issues would have been ironed out before any ships were built. Once they are settled, the results will have to be applied to existing ships (to the extent that is possible) at enormous cost. Such are the effects of a “build first, design later” shipbuilding policy.

The level of incompetence the Navy has displayed with the LCS is truly breathtaking.

The LCS was supposed to be small and cheap, able to relieve larger more expensive ships of secondary tasks and to dominate coastal “brown water” environments. Yet, it is not cheap. Construction costs have ballooned to more than triple their original estimates. It is incredibly extravagant for some of its missions (those than any Coast Guard cutter could do), and very inadequate for most of the others. Its MIW and ASW capabilities are only those of the aircraft it carries. Even with its ASUW module, its firepower falls far short of foreign ships one-fifth the size. Its RIM-116 lacks the range to protect other ships. Its 57mm gun is short-ranged and cannot support troops ashore.

Taxpayers – and Navy personnel, past and present — may better appreciate the scope of the LCS disaster when reminded that current plans call for these pseudo-warships to comprise more than a third of the Navy’s surface combatants by 2020.

Nevertheless, the Navy is not worried. Congress will bail them out and ensure the LCS program yields some sort of product, even if it is a terribly overpriced and only marginally meets program requirements.

Meanwhile, foreign — not necessarily friendly — navies are building better and cheaper ships.

John Sayen retired from the Marine Corps in 2002 as a lieutenant colonel. He currently works in the defense industry and occasionally writes on current and historical military and naval issues.

Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/10/05/the-n ... z2QbT3w6ID

[Austin]

LCS got stealth and kick ass looks , Talwar doesnt you remember that

[Singha]

stealth against pirate skiffs and dhows that have no form of radar in the first place?

real test will be against Iranian cigar boats/FACs and against Noko units.

[Kartik]

LCS got stealth and kick ass looks , Talwar doesnt you remember that

that's a cheap shot Austin. I'd expect someone like Philip to come running with some lame excuse each time a Russian weapons system is criticized for ANYTHING (just as I'd expect him to come running with heaps of criticism if its an indigenous system in the dock), but I'm surprised that you'd try to justify what is a ridiculously high price for a friagate with sarcasm.

[Austin]

Nothing to do with Firgate or LCS , I was just pulling Philips jee leg ......Nothing intentional.

We all know US equipment is costly because that is the way their systems are built , BTW Talwar is neither stealthy nor has great looks thats pretty factual . Stealth is just a PR stuff used with liberty these days.

[John]

Keep in mind part of cost is in its propulsion system which generates nearly as much power as ADS. A cheaper variant has been proposed that would cost half as much and uses more scaled down propulsion setup.

[member_23455]

The LCS is a joke in US defense circles - both from a capability and cost perspective so not sure what the point of using that as an example is. The Russians will take us to the cleaners now they know our PSU shipyard shenanigans.

Here is an example of a cost-effective acquisition program from a western country

http://www.casr.ca/id-danish-naval-projects-frigate.htm

[Singha]

a 3000t ship (LCS) with a top speed of 47 knots...insane....it will outrun anything in the water...but to what end nobody knows I bet...chasing pirate skiffs into shallow water?
anything with a harpoon type ASM will respond back deftly with a salvo.

[ramana]

Something is rotten in IN officer class:

http://www.dailypioneer.com/top-stories ... ction.html

[member_22906]

^^

Ramanaji, you better tone it down. This comment is way out of line. You can't make outlandish statements about the entire IN officer class because of a news report especially when the accusation still needs to be proven... and even if the accusation is proven true, you are equating all as rotten for the follies of a few?

Would you like if someone made some bizzare comment that all people of a particular community (for arguement's sake - your community) are rotten because there were a few incidents where some specimen were found indulging in an immoral act?

[Brando]

^^ Who is talking about the "entire" IN officer class ? And why should he "tone it down" ?? Is this North Korea where "un-patriotic"/"counter-revolutionary" comments are illegal and treasonous ?

Take a chill pill and read the statement again. The statement "Something is rotten in IN officer class" is quite clear. If he said "Everything is rotten in the IN officer class" you could take umbrage but he didn't. But as it stands, it is a valid statement given the present controversy.

[Philip]

30+ years ago a pal in the IN told me that moving up the ladder was easier if you had a pretty wife.What was perhaps the exception to the rule has become more prevalent today,but one cannot blanket an entire service.Look at the USN and its "tailhook" scandal and the massive cover-up of sexual abuse of women in uniform in all their services.But with Adarsh and other scams being seen with greater frequency,the time has come for tougher action against corruption of both material and moral misdemeanours.

[member_22906]

Brando: this is not North Korea and so even I can question him on his comments and I am sure its not illegal doing this to a senior poster and a moderator in BR

I would rather want him to tell what he meant since after taking a chill pill also (as suggested by you), the tone alludes to the IN officer class

Philip: Extreme and harsh action should be taken against the ones that have indulged in corruption or moral misdemenours. The recent sacking of an IN officer for sending lewd sms is a case in point.

However, what p###es me off is when people make across the board statements w/o any verified facts about the case. For quite a few unfortunate cases that come to media (or are blown out of proportion) the vast majority of the men and women in arms are clean and are part of a very noble profession and giving "izzat" to the uniform and to the profession is the least we can do.

I have stated this before also that it is becoming fashionable to make outlandish and baseless remarks about the defense services these days on BR....

[member_23455]

I'm surprised no one's brought up a US example here because I thought that was what was fashionable on BR - quote LCS, F-35 etc.etc.
and then feel reassured that our situation is better, and carry on business as usual.

So, let me:

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/navy-c ... 2-1.168999

[pentaiah]

A Sharma your righteous indignation is misplaced, things are surely rotten
Who would have thought IAF chief would indulge in bribes.

Navy officers selling complete data and war game plans

Nothing is beyond suspicion even ceases wife.....

So cool off

I hope you are old enough to know about Capt Nanavati case in 1959

[member_22906]

^^

And what has the Nanavati case got to do with either my age or the above post?

I am peeved with the comment about the IN officer class being painted with the same brush. And what is wrong if a person is upset about it, since the follies of a few can't be applied to the rest?

[rohitvats]

^^

And what has the Nanavati case got to do with either my age or the above post?

I am peeved with the comment about the IN officer class being painted with the same brush. And what is wrong if a person is upset about it, since the follies of a few can't be applied to the rest?

And the height of the stupidity is that nothing has even been proven in this case.

The IN Officer and his wife have a long case of marital discord...as per one report, she even forced him to marry her by doing some dharna or some such stuff when he was posted in Mumbai. And now, we have this.

The news report attached by ramana says that AK acted tough against erring officers...while the fact is that IN itself recommended those tough actions against its officers.

[Austin]

Frigate Trikand Completes Sea Trials

As the press service of the Rule of Law, on Wednesday completed a marine frigate Trikand part of the test, which started on April 4. On April 8 the ship regularly went out on the sea of the Baltic Fleet, which showed the work of the State Commission of all the systems and mechanisms, including weapons.

Commissioning of the plant team and the crew of the Baltic Fleet, in particular, had a firing anti-aircraft missile complex "Shtil 1". "As a result of firing was struck by a rocket-target moving at a height of 50 m above sea level. This was observed not only members of the state commission, but the Indian crew. They were satisfied with the result, "- said the head of the project 11356 Shipyard" Yantar "Alevtin Dmitriev.

In the next few days on board ship should be completed practice Indian crew, after which the ship will return to the factory to pass the audit. It also continues the coastal part of the practice of Indian naval crew.
Transfer of the Indian Navy ship is scheduled for the summer of 2013.

As reported, the contract for the construction of three frigates of the Indian Navy signed on July 14, 2006 in Delhi. Its total cost - about $ 1.6 billion

[abhishek-nayak]

^^

And what has the Nanavati case got to do with either my age or the above post?

I am peeved with the comment about the IN officer class being painted with the same brush. And what is wrong if a person is upset about it, since the follies of a few can't be applied to the rest?

And the height of the stupidity is that nothing has even been proven in this case.

The IN Officer and his wife have a long case of marital discord...as per one report, she even forced him to marry her by doing some dharna or some such stuff when he was posted in Mumbai. And now, we have this.

The news report attached by ramana says that AK acted tough against erring officers...while the fact is that IN itself recommended those tough actions against its officers.

Let the MOD investigate this case and only then should we open our mouth on this issue....

If the lady is found to be lying then she should face the law for defamation and if she her allegation is proven to be true then the guilty officers should be dismissed and thrown into jail.

I know there are many wrong things happen in military parties but never i have heard of cases as severe as wife swapping....

[abhishek-nayak]

^^

And what has the Nanavati case got to do with either my age or the above post?

I am peeved with the comment about the IN officer class being painted with the same brush. And what is wrong if a person is upset about it, since the follies of a few can't be applied to the rest?

as many said there are bad apples in every stack...that does not mean indian navy is full of immoral characterless people.....Our navy has produced exemplary officers like Captain MN Mulla who rather chose to die than abandon his ship.