The Red Menace

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Rahul Mehta »

brihaspati wrote:And please dont say the "root cause" is poverty/atrocity etc. - they are not the root causes for Naxalite violence. They are facts used by Naxalite leadership, mostly derived from "upper/forward sections" of Indian majority community stratifications, just as most leadership in "parliamentarian" Left are, - who are searching out their own route for personal power and dominance, and looking for a captive constituency to ride on.
Poverty and corruption in police,courts are NOT the root causes of Naxalism, as Naxal leaders have no desire or plan to eradicate it.

But they are the root reason why we are not able to crush naxals.

----

As naxal problems grows, the anti-naxals will have to accept that there are two major factions in anti-naxals

1. pro-poor anti-corruption (and anti-naxal) like myself
2. anti-poor pro-corruption (like Congress, BJP etc)

With (2) around, naxals are bound to grow. So the people in (1) MUST completely try to crush (2) so that naxal problem can be solved. And by crush, I mean electorally and politically, not using violence. But ant co-operation with (1) should be ruled out.
.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

Sachin wrote:

Are we to do the same with the lashkar and the jaish??

They also claim noble ideals
Can you list one noble ideal?
laskar/jaish is paki,but maoist is Indian.
Maoists are hungry tribes,give them food first.
Last edited by Jamal K. Malik on 23 Jun 2009 23:19, edited 1 time in total.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

bart wrote:
What hogwash. These guys go about killing innocent countrymen with cold-blooded ruthlessness and no remorse, and actively collaborate with external enemies of the nation. Stop trying to paint them as some kind of Gandhian/Martin Luther King type rights movement.

News flash for you: Most of the people in our country are poor and everybody has some kind of grouse or issue with various facets of government machinery, whether rich or poor. Doesn't justify terrorism against your own country.
Gandhi was never forced hungry,but maoist tribe is hungry.
If we will not able to feed them, they will force to pick arms.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

Rahul Mehta wrote:
Only politically and economically, we can eradicate them.
If we will try the force, the problem will increase.
Most of their fight is related with poverty and against police's atrocity.

No political solutions for naxals.

We need police-administrative solution. Increase number of policemen, give them better arms and better training. And reduce corruption in policemen and reduce atrocities using administrative means. And reduce poverty to ensure that lesser commons support Naxals.

But no dialogs with Naxals.
Politics is a Master Key.Use it.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

'Send food, not force to Lalgarh'
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 690223.cms
Crisis after crisis: Lalgarh battles hunger
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 690156.cms

Send the food.Hungry men are always ready to die and kill
Yayavar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4848
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 10:55

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Yayavar »

Jamal K. Malik wrote:'Send food, not force to Lalgarh'
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 690223.cms
Crisis after crisis: Lalgarh battles hunger
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 690156.cms

Send the food.Hungry men are always ready to die and kill
It is not that simplistic...if one can buy ak-47, one can buy food.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

viv wrote:
Jamal K. Malik wrote:'Send food, not force to Lalgarh'
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 690223.cms
Crisis after crisis: Lalgarh battles hunger
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 690156.cms

Send the food.Hungry men are always ready to die and kill
It is not that simplistic...if one can buy ak-47, one can buy food.
No,it is not true that they have bought the AK-47.
They looted it from forces to fight for foods and fight police's atrocities.
First, they was hungry now they are terrorist.
Both the ways, they are in lose.
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Virupaksha »

A terrorist organization, with proclaimed alleigence to China is the route for food. Give me another one, Jamal.

How many starvation related deaths have we heard in that area? If there were any real poverty fighters, they are all gone. Today their leaders are simply money looting machines, with weapons supplied by foreigners - nothing more.
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Virupaksha »

Jamal K. Malik wrote: No,it is not true that they have bought the AK-47.
They looted it from forces to fight for foods and fight police's atrocities.
First, they was hungry now they are terrorist.
Both the ways, they are in lose.
and ak-47s are available with our police men :lol:
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Virupaksha »

Jamal K. Malik wrote:
Rahul Mehta wrote: No political solutions for naxals.

We need police-administrative solution. Increase number of policemen, give them better arms and better training. And reduce corruption in policemen and reduce atrocities using administrative means. And reduce poverty to ensure that lesser commons support Naxals.

But no dialogs with Naxals.
Politics is a Master Key.Use it.
Let me remember how was punjab insurgency controlled. What happens when andhra govts gives breaks for talks with naxals and how is it suddenly less today.
Politics should be used, but not for rehabilitation, but for crushing and isolating the naxals.
ashish raval
BRFite
Posts: 1389
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 00:49
Location: London
Contact:

Re: The Red Menace

Post by ashish raval »

Jamal K. Malik wrote:
Send the food. Hungry men are always ready to die and kill

Where did you came up with this logic ? If this was true it is easy to arm hundreds of men in darfur to fight zanzavid militia. Since the time of Alexander and Chanakya it is know that hungry men's cant move an inch. Forget about killing. How can hungry man fight when he has no energy left to fight ?
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

ravi_ku wrote: Let me remember how was punjab insurgency controlled. What happens when andhra govts gives breaks for talks with naxals and how is it suddenly less today.
Politics should be used, but not for rehabilitation, but for crushing and isolating the naxals.
We have controlled the insurgency in Punjab by politics only.More ever, they was fighting for separate nation, not for the police atrocities.It was the political will power of CM Beant singh.
Politics should be use for crushing and isolating the naxals .No polices.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

ashish raval wrote:
Jamal K. Malik wrote:
Send the food. Hungry men are always ready to die and kill

Where did you came up with this logic ? If this was true it is easy to arm hundreds of men in darfur to fight zanzavid militia. Since the time of Alexander and Chanakya it is know that hungry men's cant move an inch. Forget about killing. How can hungry man fight when he has no energy left to fight ?
When children is dying for food, father/mother/brother/sister will have energy left to fight.
This is a fight to survive.
ashish raval
BRFite
Posts: 1389
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 00:49
Location: London
Contact:

Re: The Red Menace

Post by ashish raval »

^^ In these case they should shoot their leader who first threw them in hell-hole just like Italians did to Mousollini in second world war and find out a sensible person who want to talk to Government on issues. Fighting with Government will lead them to total destruction which is seen in case of LTTE.
brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: The Red Menace

Post by brihaspati »

Jamalji,
can you please describe any first hand experience of living conditions in the "Maoist" areas? I would be very interested in your experiences based on which you are making such statements.
Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Rahul Mehta »

viv wrote:It is not that simplistic...if one can buy ak-47, one can buy food.
Only some 500 Maoists have AK47. The rest are using bows and arrows. Hunger problem is real. Because of pro-corruption elements in Indian polity, the ration food never went to tribals. Free medicine never went to tribals. The Christianist cant work because VHP beats them and VHP cant work because CPM beats them. So finally, Maoists do some work, and so tribals become attached to Maoists.

---
brihaspati : can you please describe any first hand experience of living conditions in the "Maoist" areas? I would be very interested in your experiences based on which you are making such statements.
In tribal areas of Gujarat, the tribals are supposed to get 10 kg of wheat a month in ration shop. They barely get 3 kg. If this is the situation in Gujarat, I can imagine that in those parts of WB, tribals would not get even 500 gm a month.

And thats why we still dont have Naxal problem in Gujarat -- because Nbjprie in Gujarat do let tribals have 3 kg of grains a month while they steal away 7 kg. The scums in WB steal away entire 10 kg and hence this Naxal mess. As much as I curse Congress and BJP leaders of Gujarat, I do praise them for one thing - they steal 70% to 80% but do let us commons have 20% to 30%. Where as Nbjprie in most other parts of India, be CPM or BJP or Congress, steal away 95% to 100% .
Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3513
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Rony »

Not to generalise anything, but if my guss is right, Jamal Malik garu is from Hyderabad/Andhra :D

I myself is a Andhra from Hyderabad and heard plenty of logics such as used by jamal garu from my own friends, all of them well educated and well settled.
There are many in Andhra (including my own relatives) who beleive that naxalites are 'good' people working for poor and distributing land for poor people.For them , communism only means working for the poor.They dont know nothing about communist history, china, mao,stalin or even the treacherous role played by the Indian Communists right from their inception to the present.Of course jamal garu havent said anything of this sort and he is mainly making a valid point that economic development should go hand in hand with policing in moist infected areas which i fully agree with.
Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 9118
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Sachin »

Political solution should be framed to help the tribals and allow them to have a decent living. But Maoists (the tribal's so-called saviours) needs to be ruthlessly finished off as SL Army took care of the LTTE. Crushing Maoists would also be a lesson for future generations that they just cannot get some weapon, find out some ridiculous cause to fight for and then start killing people.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

brihaspati wrote:Jamalji,
can you please describe any first hand experience of living conditions in the "Maoist" areas? I would be very interested in your experiences based on which you are making such statements.
They are very hungry people. They need education and food.I am not talking about roads and other infrastructures.Please go to some tribe area of this belt,you will also feel the experience .
I am not pro-Maoist,but I am pro-people of these Maoist belt.
Now,these so called Maoist are exploiting them and police doing atrocities against them.
These poor people belong to us only.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14757
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Aditya_V »

Jamal, tribals dont belong to anybody they are a part of us. But no way do the Maoists represent the poor. There are attrocities and exploitation of Tribals, our Neta Babu beauracracy is no doubt to be blamed. But that is somthing we need to solve, but it wrong to confuse maoists rich civil liberty groups who would always like a breakdown is law and order as a solution. Good infrastruture means better knowledge, livelyhood and hence ultimately a better lifestyle and good food for tribals.
bart
BRFite
Posts: 712
Joined: 04 Jan 2008 21:33

Re: The Red Menace

Post by bart »

I guess, from going through this thread, that our strategy should be 2-fold:

1> Ruthlessly go after the Maoists and their ideologues and eliminate them.
2> Provide massive food and other aid to the poor tribals and others of those areas. Divert some of the subsidies and aid going to Kashmir if needed.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

bart wrote:I guess, from going through this thread, that our strategy should be 2-fold:

1> Ruthlessly go after the Maoists and their ideologues and eliminate them.
2> Provide massive food and other aid to the poor tribals and others of those areas. Divert some of the subsidies and aid going to Kashmir if needed.
More or less I am agree with you.
Maoist is terrorist,there is no doubt. We should be the ruthless to them.
Solution should be political and economical,if we are looking for permanent.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

Lalgarh: State forces battle on empty stomach
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 694769.cms
We are not able to feed our forces.
How we can think to feed poor and powerless people.
:wink: :wink:
brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: The Red Menace

Post by brihaspati »

Jamalji,
I wanted to compare notes. I am not speaking without any experience. What are the areas you visited or stayed in among the tribals? Unfortunately your comments made me feel that you were talking from a rather superficial viewpoint. You were simplifying the cause and effect to a degree that made me feel that you never really stayed or intimately intermingled with the tribals for any significant period of time.

Hunger, dispossession, and lack of means of production are factors shared by tribals with large groups of non-tribals. Tribal problem is more complex because of their different concepts of social organization and property ownership. This made them vulnerable to easier dispossession from access to their traditional economic resources. But on many counts they do not face more adverse poverty situations than non-tribals. The reasons for their use by the Maoists is because of their comparative lesser integration with mainstream Indian society, and the remoteness or difficult nature of the terrain they usually inhabit. Even among the tribals, some are not true "adivasis". Some of them are products of enforced migrations under Sultanate or Mughal rule - when marginal farmers or agrarian labourers simply escaped into remoter areas to evade excessive taxation and punitive enslavement. The process has been well documented by someone whose words cannot be dismissed as being biased against Islamic regimes - Irfan Habib, in his earlier thesis on the "Agrarian system of Mughal India".

Similar dispossessions were carried out under the British when they began to encroach on traditional patterns of land use. From family records I know that my own ancestors brought and settled large groups from areas under British "kind attention to restore order and civilization" after the 1857 war of independence. Their tacit alliance with the British helped them to be virtually autonomous in their own rather remote area. As far as I know, these groups consisted of both true "adivasis" as well as dispossessed non-adivasi peasants. They still enjoy title to land and other forms of natural resources allocated to them. Water however is becoming more and more scarce. However, over time, it has been the Marxists who gradually have dispossesed them again in one part of the region which falls under a Leftist gov. This has been done through a clever combination of arm-twisting and manipulation that concentrates land ownership in the hands of local leaders of a certain party.

I am speaking from experience from childhood. I have spent almost the first 18 years of my life, most of the year, in the badlands of the tri-junction of Orissa, Bihar and WB. I have slept, ate and hunted, with "tribals". I know a large part of their daily lives and grinds from first hand experience. At the same time I have seen from most intinate perspective the whole merry dance of admin, rashtra, left politics concerning the area and its populace.

I was therefore interested in gauging your actual experiences based on which you were making your simple cause and effect statements.
suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4112
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: The Red Menace

Post by suryag »

Brihaspatiji the recent spurt in violence by the naxals, somehow looks like is orchestrated from chipanda hq. You had brought this point up somewhere that chips would do/has done something to show its discontent cased due to our troop buildup in NE.
Jamal K. Malik
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 27 Mar 2009 23:03

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

Sir brihaspati,
You are modifying the facts in favour of non-tribe.
brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: The Red Menace

Post by brihaspati »

Jamalji,
thats a serious accusation. In what way have I modified facts in favour of non-tribe? Can you please specify with "facts"? You still have not given me any clue as to your real and prolonged contact and intermingling with "tribe". I am speaking from actual experience in a zone where adivasis have been prominent for ages. If you can counter with real experiences please do so, otherwise please do not put forward such blanket accusations.
Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Rahul Mehta »

.

Ever since I arrived on BR in 1999, proposing solutions is a taboo and asking "what solution do you propose" fetches more curses than proposals. But then a politician (including myself) is immune to taboos and curses. We politicians are all dheedhs , besharam, thick skinned etc who do not change no matter how many taboos and curses are thrown on us.

So let me ask everyone once again --- what laws do you propose to fix Naxal mess and pls provide drafts of the laws you are proposing.

---

I heard some solutions like "give food to these commons". Well, food was being sent to us commons via ration card system since 1950s. But the Nbjprie chew away a big chunk of that food. And this chewing away has been there since 1960s,m but since 1991 it has increased to a level that we commons dont smell any food at ration card shops in large parts of India. So solutions like "give food to these commons" is a useless solution unless solution provider can tell me what administrative structures he is proposing to ensure that the food will actually reach the plate of us commons. And the administrative structures are built by DRAFTS of laws or Executive Notifications. So pls show me which DRAFTS you are proposing that ensures that food dispatched from capital will actually reach the home of us commons. In absence of such drafts, one-liners like "give food to these commons" are no better than some movie punch lines.

Likewise, I hear "kill all naxals" solutions. As if typing "kill -f -9 naxal." will kill all naxals. To kill Naxals, we need to send policemen in those areas. The policemen need salaries. Most of you guys support increasing salaries of policemen and soldiers. But most of those who support increase in salaries refuse to tell me which taxation laws they propose to get the money to pay the increased salaries. Plus we are short of policemen and equipment. To kill Naxals and other scums, we need MORE policemen and equipment. Care to tell me which tax laws you propose to pay better salaries to existing policemen? And new policemen?

And if these policemen keep beating and fleecing us commons as they all do now, that will only help the naxals. So if you want more police action, pls do specify the LAWS you propose to reduce corruption in policemen and their beating us commons.

Every time I ask for laws and DRAFTS, I get curses only. This time I am expecting the same, and hoping against hopes that my expectations will be proved wrong.
vipins
BRFite
Posts: 471
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 17:46

Re: The Red Menace

Post by vipins »

Inside a Naxal arms factory(video)
The Naxals have been running an arms factory right in the heart of Bhopal. The shocking part is that its not just assault rifles or rocket launchers that are being produced over here. The Naxals have even gotten their hands on M-15 & M-16 rifles;all weapons used by elite forces in the US & UK.
Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Rahul Mehta »

Naxals have even gotten their hands on M-15 & M-16 rifles;all weapons used by elite forces in the US & UK
Where are those who said "American Premier is India's Premier"?

And where are those who used to curse me for my citing Christianist-Naxal nexuses a few months ago?
vsudhir
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 03:44
Location: Dark side of the moon

Re: The Red Menace

Post by vsudhir »

India declares war on Maoists

OK article 'cept that it (unwittingly?) perpetuates the "root cause of maoism==poverty etc" canard.

For once, am hoping against hope, the war is a coordinated one across state boundaries, the requisite legal infrastructure to enable ex-Maoists to turn into informers in return for a pardon on their past crimes etc be put into place, funds trail be tracked assiduously, and phoren interests supporting the maoistas be isolated and bombarded with misinformation.

If wishes were horses, perhaps. Lezsee, the COBRA has been formed. The gubmints of MP and CT are committed to take the war to the maoists (Orissa and Jharkhand gubmints appear less resolute in this regard).
sanjaychoudhry
BRFite
Posts: 756
Joined: 13 Jul 2007 00:39
Location: La La Land

Re: The Red Menace

Post by sanjaychoudhry »

The Naxals have even gotten their hands on M-15 & M-16 rifles;all weapons used by elite forces in the US & UK.
Not only that, I saw photos of Naxals and Maoists with second world war surplus M1 Garand rifles. That, together with Purulia air drops, set my alarm bells ringing about the Gora and church connection to the Moaists and who is providing them military manuals. It is now quite obvious why US is in a hurry to open consulates all over India and why they preferred Hyderabad over Bangalore.

When the church moves into an area in heathen lands, the Gora soldiers are only two steps behind. When the Gora soldiers move into a heathen area, the missionaries are only two steps behind. Never forget that. This is what has happened throughout history in every part of the world. Only secular fools don't understand this.

The church moved into Chattisgarh, Jharkhand and Andhra decades ago. Now the Gora soldiers have arrived.
putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4725
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: The Red Menace

Post by putnanja »

Interesting article by an "embedded journalist" who is travelling with the CRPF in Kadashole.

Battle for Kadashole
Siddhartha
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 18
Joined: 04 Jun 2009 07:55

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Siddhartha »

Satellite is used to track the Maoists..

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090627/j ... 165932.jsp
Goaltore, June 26: The country’s spy in the sky today helped forces kick off their first full-blooded assault on the Maoists holed up in Lalgarh.

Using images captured by Risat-2, which the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) had launched in April, the forces recaptured that slice of the liberated zone where the Maoist concentration was believed to be highest.

“From the images, we could figure out that the villages along the stretch from Goaltore to Ramgarh were empty. But the forests had a huge concentration of people, suspected Maoist guerrillas,” said a senior state police officer.

Central and state officers met in Midnapore town last night and drew up their plan on the basis of inputs from Risat-2, the country’s first satellite that can send images of the ground even after nightfall.

Since Tuesday, a senior military intelligence officer had been scanning the images — beamed by Risat-2 from an altitude of 550km — analysing them at Fort William and sending the inputs to the state home department. The intelligence was forwarded to Midnapore IG Kuldeip Singh.

Although the satellite — developed with help from Israel — provided black-and-white still images with a lag of six hours, they threw up many clues about Maoist movements.

“The images revealed that the Maoists had mobilised a huge force and so we decided to get more personnel at Goaltore,” said a senior state police officer, explaining the delay in launching the final assault.

The officers first felt the need for credible intelligence of the areas deep inside Lalgarh when the Maoists beat back a state paramilitary team at Pingboni on June 19.

“As we didn’t have any intelligence from the ground, satellite images of the area were the only option. The state government got in touch with the Union home ministry earlier this week to activate Isro,” explained a senior state official.

According to him, this was the first time images captured by Risat-2 were used in an operation against the Maoists.

“When we started the operation this morning, we had a fair idea about the Maoist hideouts and so our men could start shelling specific areas,” said a central force officer.

Although the security forces could not give any information on enemy casualties, a senior officer told The Telegraph the heavy mortar shelling forced them to retreat.

“We could not have launched the operation without the satellite images,” said the officer, adding that today’s takeover of Kadashole was also a tech triumph.
vsudhir
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 03:44
Location: Dark side of the moon

Re: The Red Menace

Post by vsudhir »

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1340
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Nihat »


Satellite is used to track the Maoists..

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090627/j ... 165932.jsp
We need more of these babies up in the sky and possibly more advanced ones , Insurgents would not have a chance against it.
Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Rahul Mehta »


Time to impose wealth tax on NA land to get necessary funds to fight against Naxals, Pakies, Americans etc.

---
Nihat wrote:

Satellite is used to track the Maoists..

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090627/j ... 165932.jsp
We need more of these babies up in the sky and possibly more advanced ones , Insurgents would not have a chance against it.
Yes, but pls also note that American (American = MNCs + Christianists) and Chinese satellites are informing Naxals about what our troops are doing. And we MUST impose wealth tax to collect funds necessary to improve ISRO, SAC etc so that we can have more data.
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17167
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Rahul M »

x-post

A small article on COBRA from the newspaper bangla statesman.

NOTE : The article is a bit high on rhetoric(not that I'm complaining) and there are some obvious factual mistakes (e.g H&K MP5 is referred to as MP3. Wonder if the force members meant MP5 A3 and the journalist shortened it.) and expansion of CIJWS is wrong. What is commendable however is that the journalist has interviewed a few COBRA members and has some nice information but keeping in mind his limited knowledge of security affairs I've modified wherever I felt appropriate.
Keuter thekeo khipro COBRA (COBRA is quicker than the cobra)

Tarun Ghosh

The garb consists of olive coloured trousers and T-shirts of the same colour. The small backpack contains emergency medicines, water dry food, anti-venom ampules and syringe, not to mention six different types of knives. ( :eek: ) An automatic pistol adorns the waist. The weapon of choice is the Heckler and Koch MP5, the other hand cradles a Dragunov rifle.{INSAS and AK-47 are also mentioned as options elsewhere. Accompanying picture shows a jawan with an AK} Everyone's age is between 18 and 24, their movements are as quick as a snake strike, eyes are always darting around, taking in the situation. They speak less and depend on sign language for the most part. This is the first time this force has been deployed in WB's lalgarh.
They are the COBRA.

The T-shirts have raised questions have been raised in some quarters. The answer lies in their short history. The decision to raise this advanced force was taken by the Central Govt in August 2008. The force was created out of CRPF's youngest, most motivated and most competent jawans. Their training period is of 2 years. Since their training is still incomplete the uniform hasn't been decided upon yet. Hence the olive casuals.

COBRA would eventually consist of 10 battalions totaling around 10,000 men. Currently the battalions have been raised with the very low strength of 40-45 as against the normal 900 for a single battalion. Training is going on at two places -- koraput and variengte CIJWS. {I thought the second was in chattisgarh. It might be that the initial members would do a course at CIJWS}
COBRA members are being taught jungle survival and emphasis is being given on living off the land in jungle environment.
They prefer eliminating enemies by hand or with knife, a bullet can alert the others.
All of them are sharp shooters {a bit skeptical about this} They are taught to fire accurately from 300 meters. In stead of the familiar bulls eye, they use coconuts adorned with a red dot which are hung from trees and the coconuts are given a firm push. The dense forests in which such training is conducted adds to the difficulty of hitting the red dot on the oscillating coconuts ! Of the two years, around 8 months is expended in creating a "perfect sharp-shooter" out of the jawans.

The currently deployed force in lalgarh has only 3 months worth of training. But a CoBRA member claims that any of their member would do better than an Army jawan.

There are some thoughts in army quarters {the word used is sena-bahini but I'm not sure the author means the army} of using this force as an advance platoon, they would aliminate nearby enemies and inform the larger forces back home of the enemies' position.
Not only in jungles COBRA will also be deployed in hilly terrain, the training site for that hasn't yet been decided upon.

In lalgarh, the police are outsiders while the maoists know the place like the back of their hand. Coupled with the coming rainy season, the area could become a death trap for the joint forces. This is why this specially trained force has been brought in even before their training has been completed. The CRPF officials initially opposed this but finally agreed to send in the COBRA as a covering force for the joint forces.
The two battalions of COBRA are currently spearheading efforts to gain control of the maoist dominated areas. If the maoists attempt to break the cordon into the "free-zone", the first resistance would come from the COBRA, CRPF forms the second line of defence.

Currently there are no plans for any major offensive operation. Unless attacked, the forces would advance in small steps, gain control of the villages and send in relief and supplies for the residents. This is a time consuming process but will hopefully keep loss of life at a minimum.
Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: The Red Menace

Post by Gerard »

God isn’t saving the Left, not in Bengal
By MJ Akbar
The Daily Pioneer
2009/06/28
posted in full since site does not archive
Bertolt Brecht, the Leftist German playwright, was brilliant enough to give cynicism a good name. Parliamentary democracy, for him, was a moveable feast. He once suggested a great alternative to dissolving the legislature and electing a fresh set of representatives. “Wouldn’t it be easier,” he asked, “to dissolve the people and elect another in their place?”

He might never say so publicly, but West Bengal’s Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee is probably ruing the fact that Comrade Brecht’s admirable suggestion cannot be implemented. It is useful to remember that the CPI(M)-led Left Front got hammered in the election before the Maoist insurgency in and around Lalgarh became front-page news. How much worse have the prospects of the Left Front become in West Bengal since Lalgarh?

The news is not very good for the democratic children of Marx and Stalin. The conscience of the Left in West Bengal, Mahashweta Devi, has expressed sympathy for the Maoists and contempt for the administration. The police probably did not take permission from the Chief Minister when they filed an FIR against filmmaker and filmstar Aparna Sen for visiting Lalgarh to assess the situation. If the police did check with the Chief Minister, he had no business authorising such a vindictive and counter-productive action. If they did not check with him, it means that Mr Bhattacharjee’s authority has crumbled. Would the police have filed an FIR against Suchitra Sen or Madhabi Mukherjee when Mr Jyoti Basu was Chief Minister without consulting him?

Aparna Sen is not an ideologue, but her heart and mind are in the right place. She can see what Governments, whether in Kolkata, Delhi, Raipur, Ranchi or Bhubaneswar cannot. The Maoists may be wrong in their tactics, but they are not terrorists sent by the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba from Pakistan. They are born of an economy that has turned a handful of capitalists into the bloated masters of the nation, given the middle-class the reality of a better life and the dream of riches, and left the poor to the whiplash of hunger and the misery of indifference. The overwhelming majority of Maoists only ever wanted the self-esteem that comes from an honest wage.

The CPI(M) has abandoned its core commitment by walking away from this reality. Mr Bhattacharjee seems to have become besotted with power, which is probably why he will lose. Nor will the police war against the Maoists end in celebratory triumph for Writers Building, draped for more than three decades in fading red. It will continue long after the Left Front and Delhi have declared victory. The Governments have state-power; the Maoists have time.

The people of West Bengal have sensed that while Ms Mamata Banerjee may not have the sophistication of Marxist dialectic on her side, she is instinctively closer to their sentiments. That is why they shifted so significantly in the general election, and will incline even further towards her in the Assembly poll. The CPI(M) has been reduced to seeking brownie points in a university debate. Mr Sitaram Yechury is currently engaged in a debate with Mr Rahul Gandhi over which constituency is more wretched. Mr Gandhi thought, during the election campaign, that the tribal regions of West Bengal were more backward than the worst in Orissa. Mr Yechury responded that Bankura and Purulia in West Bengal had better socio-economic indicators than Amethi or Rae Bareli. Both may be right, which means that we should offer a round of applause to Mr Naveen Patnaik.

Quiz question: When was the last time Mr Yechury dipped into Franz Fanon’s The Wretched of the Earth?

The Indian political class may not be doing very much for the poor, but it also seems to have lost all sensitivity to poverty. You can hear Mr Bhattachar-jee’s indignation simmer and boil in his voice as he denounces Maoists before his Cabinet and Left Front colleagues while defending the ban on them. When was the last time he got angry over poverty in West Bengal? Unless, of course, he believes that he has eliminated poverty already and that Lalgarh is nothing but a conspiracy between Maoists and Ms Banerjee to destabilise him before defeating him?

The Left Front would be better advised to take a long and hard look a little to the east of Bankura and Purulia, at the Muslim-dense districts that sweep towards Bangladesh and then bend into South 24-Parganas. Ms Banerjee is Union Railway Minister largely (though of course not solely) because the Muslims of this arc abandoned the Marxists. Justice Rajinder Sachar intended nothing more dramatic than an honest report on Indian Muslims when commissioned to do so by Mr Manmohan Singh. His bleak portrait of West Bengal had a sharp counterpoint: Bengali Muslims could not believe Muslims had more Government jobs in Mr Narendra Modi’s Gujarat than in CPI(M)’s West Bengal. That was the turning point, exacerbated by the Chief Minister’s ham-handed insensitivity towards cases like Rizwan, the young Kolkata boy who died as a consequence of an inter-community love affair. Mr Bhattacharjee is not communal. It was not, to paraphrase another playwright that the Chief Minister should recognise, that he loved Rizwan less, but that he loved Kolkata Police more.

I should amend my suggestion: Both the CPI(M) and Ms Banerjee should take a serious look at the marginalised Bengali Muslims. Their young have not been attracted to Maoists because Muslims will not give up Allah and Maoists will not give up atheism. The first will not change, but the second might. The CPI(M) became an electoral force in West Bengal because it softened its rigid position on religion. The Maoists might too.

Ms Banerjee has been long enough in West Bengal politics to understand that replacing the Left Front also means acquiring a crushing burden of aspirations. No one will be more demanding than the poor, particularly the tribals and the Bengali Muslims. The Left Front got 30 years. Ms Banerjee will get about 30 months. Mr Tony Blair had some non-Brechtian advice for those politicians who wanted to win elections, as recounted in the diaries of one of his associates, Mr Chris Mullins. Go around smiling at everyone, he said, and get someone else to do the shooting.

Mr Bhattacharjee not only has stopped smiling; he also picks up the gun himself when there is any shooting to be done.
Post Reply