Tibet watch

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TonyMontana
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by TonyMontana »

Just bouncing ideas here.
jvk wrote: Knowing this kind of history if were in a position to call shots....

1) I would arm Uighyrs and let them loose on China! Befriend the Tajiks and open up a front on China and that could bring Russia into play! I remember having read an article talking of Chinks usurping Tajik land exploit this......
The short lived Uighyrs and Tajiks insurgency are brutally and violently crashed by overwhelming number of PLA. The CCP paid no heed to the out cries of international condamnation and managed succesfully to link the crack down to the War on Terror(Islam) in some MSM in the west. At the same time, the Maoist insurgency in India picked up in intensity with a sudden influx of cash and equipment from various sources.
jvk wrote: 2) Open up diplomatic ties with Taiwan, say adios to 1 China policy.
India joins a growing list of pacific islands that recongises Taiwan. Trade between Taiwan and China grows.
jvk wrote: 3) Get into seriously destabilizing Burma with pro democracy stuff and hope that it spills over into Bangladesh.
Pro-democracy forces violently crashed. International outcry. More of the same.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by brihaspati »

Pro-democracy movements in Myanmar, or uprisings by Uyghurs and Tibetans were crushed because no external and powerful military power supported them from underground. These are not races deemed suitable for "help" in "democratic crises".

This does not mean that the PLA and its backers within CPC will not have to pay the price eventually. Problem will be that the pain will have to be shared by the common Chinese too. Don't worry Tony-ji! If you are so much aware of Chinese history - you must be aware that the Chinese empires of the plains grew tremendously powerful and arrogant before their fall - and what a fall they were! Even the gift of gunpowder did not save it from ruthless pillage, loot and rape - in fact within a few decades of using gunpowder the hordes overran.

If PLA does not move out from the Pak occupied territories China will pay a stiff price for its politics of militarism. Just wait for the coming years.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by TonyMontana »

brihaspati wrote:
This does not mean that the PLA and its backers within CPC will not have to pay the price eventually. Problem will be that the pain will have to be shared by the common Chinese too. Don't worry Tony-ji! If you are so much aware of Chinese history - you must be aware that the Chinese empires of the plains grew tremendously powerful and arrogant before their fall - and what a fall they were!
In my opinion, Chinese empires fall because of the Chinese. It was always internal conflicts and struggles that creates weakness, which are exploited by others to cause a "change in government". Note, I used the word "change in government", the system remain similar for thousands of years. Now, this brings to a interesting point. The Chinese of today are painfully aware of that fact and people don't want to fight amongst themselves so outsiders can take advantage. Looking back on history, as long as the Chinese are united, they enjoyed hegemony in asia. So to say that any external forces stand a chance to cause a united China to fall seemed...unrealistic... The Chinese empire of history could be as arrogant as they wanted for hundreds of years as long as the Chinese people are united.
brihaspati wrote:
If PLA does not move out from the Pak occupied territories China will pay a stiff price for its politics of militarism. Just wait for the coming years.
Well...if the price is worth the gains the Chinese will say it's money well spend. It's up to India to set that price, and looking at the record so far...the price seems like a bargin.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by brihaspati »

Ah thats because this is an India so far still simply gathering its breath and allowing a portion of its elite to play along western interests. It usually takes around two generations of 30 years each for a political ideological replacement in freer societies. Indian soicety had a break in 1977 from continuyity with the British handed over framework and personnel associated [ the youth during the Independence struggle].

The generation that began from that point will have its manifestation around late 2030's, and probably as early as 2020.

Let us wait. It sno to long a time. And PRC will not proceed that fast. It is not true that unity was the sole determining factor. It depended on well observed climatic cycles of aridity and disasters, as well as inevitable growth of corruption when oligrachies and bureaucracies gradually grew with prosperity. China so far is not showing these effects because the real stories are suppressed.

That does not mean that gaps are not widening, and the disgruntlement in sections of elite who feel they have been cheated out of their legitimate share of power is also not increasing.
svinayak
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by svinayak »

brihaspati wrote:
If PLA does not move out from the Pak occupied territories China will pay a stiff price for its politics of militarism. Just wait for the coming years.

Well...if the price is worth the gains the Chinese will say it's money well spend. It's up to India to set that price, and looking at the record so far...the price seems like a bargin.
Nothing is free in this world and there will be a price for this.
Ameet
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Ameet »

Tibetan exiles in Dharamsala, India, settle in with disillusionment
Some who fled Chinese rule for tales of paradise find life isn't what they expected. Others say the tradeoffs are worth it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 0830.story
naren
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by naren »

^^^ full of psy ops. Can you really believe that people who risk everything and cross over the Himalayas, some even on foot, would complain about food, garbage and TV ?
svinayak
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by svinayak »

naren wrote:^^^ full of psy ops. Can you really believe that people who risk everything and cross over the Himalayas, some even on foot, would complain about food, garbage and TV ?
They did the same with Nepali people in early 1990s. leftist movement are started from Chicago. and its univ.
This is center for revoltionary international movement

Watch for leftist movement
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Sanku »

naren wrote:^^^ full of psy ops. Can you really believe that people who risk everything and cross over the Himalayas, some even on foot, would complain about food, garbage and TV ?
Well I have the privilege of talking extensively to a lot of them, and I can say with confidence that Chicago Tribune article is sheer crap.
shiv
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by shiv »

Interesting blog of a chaps visit to Tibet
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia/rk ... et-610.cfm
Excerpts:
The Qinghai-Tibet Railway (青藏铁路) opened in 2006, and is the highest railway in the world. It is a trip and adventure by itself, with some of the most amazing scenery one can see by train anywhere in the world, so we would definitely want to try it if feasible. But there are a few problems when trying to ride the train into Tibet:

1. Tickets are hard to come by for the summer peak period. The ticket office in Xining, Qinghai is notoriously corrupt and I have heard of fees (read: bribe) up to 1,000RMB to get a ticket from there to Lhasa. We could have started elsewhere, like Guangzhou (near Hong Kong), but that'd mean 54 hours (2 nights) on the train, which can be tiring.
Naturally, the number one concern for any visitor to Tibet is altitude sickness. It can be dangerous, and can easily ruin our trip if one or more of us have moderate to severe issues. My parents and my uncle and aunt visited Lhasa 20 years ago for 5 days, and all of them suffered various degrees of altitude sickness. [Their group leader and a tour member even ended up in the hospital.] We certainly would take the issue seriously.

Earlier this year M and K went to Hailuogou Glacier Park (海螺沟冰川公园) in Sichuan. I don't know how high they actually went, but the base of the glacier is at around 3,000m/10,000ft and where they overnighted should be lower. Still, K reported some mild discomfort like headache up there. So, she knew she had to be extra careful. M was mostly okay with that trip.
Let me emphasis again to those planning travel to Tibet. Your experience in Colorado or the Swiss Alps or Mauna Kea have little relevance for Tibet, because most likely you didn't stay at over 3,000m/10,000ft for hours. The symptoms for altitude sickness usually do not start until 4-6 hours after staying up at those altitudes. That is also why and how some visitors get into trouble in Tibet. They feel fine after flying into Lhasa, and think it's okay to roam around immediately. Then they start to have problems that night...
's a bit more beef in it. I noticed that most cooking are done with pressure cooker. Makes sense, as at Lhasa's altitude, water boils at only 88C.
The Potala is really an amazing place to visit. To me, it really showed who and what the Dala Lamai is. What's disturbing is that there is armed Chinese guard (not sure if police or military) in basically every room. No place else in Lhasa does is it more apparent that Tibet is an occupied territory - like the West Bank - if you ask me.
Just want to add one observation. There's heavy Chinese police presence inside the old city. At all the roadway or alleyway entrance, there are at least 4 or more armed guards. Along the Barkhor circuit and in front of the Jokhang, you'll see 10-12 guards matching around every few minutes - counter-clockwise against the pilgrim's direction. They are also armed with fire extinguishers, besides guns.

Finally, at junctions of the major alleys, you'll find one or two scouts on top of one of the buildings - under a beach umbrella. And there are also uniformed "special police" who will walk around the old city individually.

The Chinese are also very sensitive about the major bridges. You'll find armed guards on each end, and we were told by our guides not to shoot photos on or near the bridges.

And of course, it'd be foolish to take pictures of any police or military personnel in Tibet, period.
Beijing thinks that by bringing great great economical development to Tibet, Tibetans will be happy and embrace Beijing rule. Part of that may be true, but that development also brought huge number of Han and other Chinese to Tibet to live, work and make money. That is what the Tibetans see - people who don't look like them, people who don't believe in their religion, people who don't speak their language - took over their capital Lhasa. The Lhasa today is probably 10 times the size what it was in 1959, with that 9 new parts all ethnic Han or other non-Tibetans.

While some Tibetans (mostly younger ones in Lhasa) learned to take advantage and move up economical with that - like our guide or driver, or others who open up Tibetan guest houses and restaurants - most haven't. They enjoyed their lives herding sheep, circling the Potala and Jokhang, and drinking yak butter tea all day, why out of the sudden they have to work their butts off to compete with these foreigners who have come to overtake their land?
...
As a result, the Tibetans in Tibet remain in the bottom of the economical layer, and getting worse. And whatever benefits or welfare the Chinese and foreigners give to the Tibetans only make them more reliable to handouts - and often literally. Each day walking around the old city, we were asked by Tibetans for food or money, old and young and even capable working-age men. At many scenic spots across Tibet, young kids were taught to harass tourists by forcing crappy souvenirs on them or asking for money for photos. Other kids learned to stand in front of public bathrooms and demand 1RMB for each visit. In turn, the Hans see the Tibetans as lazy and inferior to themselves.
did you see the panel on the oxygen concentrator saying the oxygen level is 24-25% on the trip INTO Tibet? Because on our way out, the display only reads 21.4%. Maybe they run it higher for the trip in?

And for anybody going to stay in Tibet for more than a few days, it is bad idea to use the vents for even more oxygen via the valves in the picture you see. Your body needs to get acclimatized, and using very high level of oxygen is not the way to go.

About people feeling uncomfortable on the train in, I don't have 1st hand experience, but that's what I have heard from some who did. While I was in Lhasa, and also a couple of years ago when the railway just started. But I'd agree with you about spending a little time in Xining first.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by naren »

(Future Brejident) Dalai Lama Approves of Nobel Pick
The 2010 Nobel Peace Prize went to the "right person" at the "right moment," the Dalai Lama said, adding the move could serve as a "significant contribution for changing China." :twisted:

During a brief stopover Monday at Narita International Airport en route to the United States, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader criticized the Chinese government for its opposition to awarding the Nobel to jailed dissident Liu Xiaobo, saying China must change but some "hardliners" are stuck in an "old way of thinking."
Pratyush
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Pratyush »

joshvajohn
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by joshvajohn »

China will burn hands by touching Tibetan language
http://truthdive.com/2010/10/25/china-w ... guage.html


Mandarin education plan riles Tibetans
By Saransh Sehgal
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LK04Ad02.html

ANy solution to Kashmir is possible only with the solution and Freedom of Tibet. So, Kashmir and Tibet issues should be linked and discussed at three party level - China, India and Pakistan together deciding the fate of both Kashmiris and Tibetians. Also Sindhis freedom in Pakistan!!

China Genocides Tibet's Language: Violating UN Law
http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/int ... ing-un-law
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by joshvajohn »

‘China’s war games in Tibet designed to warn India’
http://www.tibetanreview.net/news.php?cat=10&&id=7635


'Hostile Chinese Statements Can't Resolve Border Row'
http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?700115

China’s intentions harming ties: Advani
http://www.washingtonbanglaradio.com/co ... ies-advani

‘Tibet One’ rides into city with a message of freedom
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Tibet-One ... 16181.aspx

China is promoting nuclear terrorism around the world by supplying nuclear missiles and long range missiles to all those countries which promote hatred and terror in other countries - Pakistan, north Korea....

UN chief criticized for rights silence on China visit
http://www.tibetanreview.net/news.php?cat=2&&id=7623
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Airavat »

joshvajohn wrote:China Genocides Tibet's Language: Violating UN Law
http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/int ... ing-un-law
On being asked about the students demonstration in Tibet on Tibetan language issue, His Holiness said that the Tibetan language is a very rich language which can go along with the ancient Sanskrit language. "Tibetan translation of Buddhist literatures are considered very authentic. Chinese authority has imposed Chinese language as medium of instruction in Tibetan schools which caused the demonstrations. Politically we are not seeking separation, Tibetan language, Buddhist philosophy, science and religion is very rich. We love our language and we are proud of our language," His Holiness said.

Imposition of Chinese language caused Tibetan demonstrations
Victor
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Victor »

Video made by Tibetans--Thank You India.

naren
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by naren »

x-post from HHDL future prez thread
--

Many nations top leadership met with the Dalai Lama, future president of India, despite being subjected to an 8.1 percent decrease in exports to China for roughly two years after the meeting
Nov. 4 – A recent study conducted by the University of Gottingen found that nations whose top leadership met with the Dalai Lama were subject to an 8.1 percent decrease in exports to China for roughly two years after the meeting.

The study, undertaken by Andreas Fuchs and Nils-Hendrik Klann of the department of economics, attempts to understand the effects of meeting with the Dalai Lama in empirical terms and proposes three related theses: first, meeting with the Dalai Lama impacts trade with China in a negative way; second, such an effect is amplified by the rank of the foreign dignitary with whom the Dalai Lama is meeting; third, that the effect disappears over time as bilateral relations between China and partner countries recover.
Link to the research paper: Paying a Visit: The Dalai Lama Effect on International Trade
October 19, 2010

Center for European Governance and Economic Development Research Paper No. 113

Abstract:
The Chinese government frequently threatens that meetings between its trading partners’ officials and the Dalai Lama will be met with animosity and ultimately harm trade ties with China. We run a gravity model of exports to China from 159 partner countries between 1991 and 2008 to test to which extent bilateral tensions affect trade with autocratic China. In order to account for the potential endogeneity of meetings with the Dalai Lama, the number of Tibet Support Groups and the travel pattern of the Tibetan leader are used as instruments. Our empirical results support the idea that countries officially receiving the Dalai Lama at the highest political level are punished through a reduction of their exports to China. However, this ‘Dalai Lama Effect’ is only observed for the Hu Jintao era and not for earlier periods. Furthermore, we find that this effect is mainly driven by reduced exports of machinery and transport equipment and that it disappears two years after a meeting took place.
haha, see the clout of our future brejident, commie biatches :twisted:
joshvajohn
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by joshvajohn »

The fight goes on in Tibet's toehold in India
http://www.theage.com.au/world/the-figh ... 177fe.html

Pro-Tibet group urges US to support their cause
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_pr ... se_1463523

Obama's Meeting With the Dalai Lama Is Delayed
Move Appears to Be A Nod to Chinese
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03262.html

Is United States president afraid of Chinese and Pakistani pressures together?
When it comes in terms of human rights and freedom United STates was not afraid of speaking to the world. Now US has lost its power not because it is not powerful but because the present leadership system has weak heart after Iraq and Afghanistan war!
Johann
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Johann »

An interesting piece of Sino-Tibetan history from the pre-communist 20th century;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Qi

Of course although a Muslim he was a Chinese Hui, not a Turkic Uighur.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by joshvajohn »

Harvard scholar is frontrunner for Tibetan PM-in-exile
http://sify.com/news/harvard-scholar-is ... gedig.html

Language opens another rift between Tibetans, Chinese
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/11/09/1 ... tween.html

THROUGH A BLURRY CELLPHONE VIDEO, DARKLY : Jamyang Norbu
http://drichu17.phayul.com/news/article ... yang+Norbu

From Ethnic cleansing to language cleansing in Tibetian China!!!

Chinese aim to stamp out Tibetan Language in Tibet
http://www.tibetcustom.com/article.php/ ... 6122519285
joshvajohn
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by joshvajohn »

Restrictions on our language triggered Tibet protests: Dalai Lama
http://sify.com/news/restrictions-on-ou ... cdbad.html
Ameet
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Ameet »

Dalai Lama: ‘I Am a Son of India’

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2010 ... n-of-india

“I am a son of India,” he declared during questions after his appearance at the Hindustan Times Leadership Summit in New Delhi. Not only has India been his transplanted home since he fled Tibet about 50 years ago, but “this body has survived by Indian daals, Indian rice, so therefore I describe myself as a son of India.”
DavidD
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by DavidD »

Ameet wrote:Tibetan exiles in Dharamsala, India, settle in with disillusionment
Some who fled Chinese rule for tales of paradise find life isn't what they expected. Others say the tradeoffs are worth it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 0830.story
Pretty interesting quotes:
"When I was in China, friends told me Dharamsala was a paradise, you didn't even need money," said Golma, 39, who uses one name. She arrived here several years ago with her husband and young daughter.

"But life isn't easy, and this place is quite dirty," she said, pointing to an open sewer strewn with plastic bags, animal waste and rotting vegetables. "I couldn't believe the Dalai Lama would live in such a messy place."
For restaurant manager Rabsel, the ability to speak his mind far outweighs any resettlement problems. As a young monk, he saw fellow clerics beaten and tortured. He was subject to re-education sessions by Chinese security officials, who insisted that he denounce the Dalai Lama as a "cannibal" and a "wolf in monk's clothing."

"I couldn't imagine staying," he said. "If you only care about money, you can have a good life in China."

Others, however, said most people who remain in Tibet just want to feed their families
If you make a political ruckus in China you're likely to get in trouble, added Golma, who was dressed in a traditional Tibetan chupa robe, knockoff Crocs and worn green socks. "But there's also freedom in enjoying your life."
Seems to me like Tibetans go to Dharmasala for many reasons, and those who are there for the wrong reasons are regretting it. BTW, I believe the writer is actually from the Los Angeles Times.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/22 ... a-20100922
Shalav
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Shalav »

Dalai Lama contemplating retirement within months
New Delhi: Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama has said he was contemplating retirement within months and a final decision on it will be taken after consultations with the political leadership and Parliament-in-exile.
BRF seems to have missed this. It looks like the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan parliament in exile is preparing for his succession and want to separate their spiritual and political leadership. The Dalai Lama is both a political and spiritual leader, and one rarely hears of the Tibetan Parliament. At 76 years old, he is probably feeling his age and his may be thinking it is time to let go of his political leadership of the Tibeti people to concentrate on spiritual matters.

When he passes away, the Chinese will be sure to make superhuman effort to quarantine and sequester the next Dalai Lama if he is found to be anywhere in Tibet. If this happens Tibet is lost.

With this move and the upcoming elections to the Tibetan parliament, political Tibet will be separated from spiritual Tibet. That leaves the Tibeti people an option for a Free Tibet, which would never happen if the next Dalai Lama is under Chinese political control.

This is also in keeping with various statements he recently made de-linking Tibeti spiritual and political leadership

China concerned about my successor
the Dalai Lama said if a majority feels that the institution of the Dalai Lama is not relevant, then it will cease to exist. “It’s for the Tibetan people to decide .... If I die in the next few days, they may want to continue with the institution of the Dalai Lama. But if it’s 20, 30 years later, who knows?” he wondered aloud.

Clearly this statement is a move to preempt the Chinese trying to control Tibet by holding the next Dalai Lama hostage.

India should be OK with this move, if it works out as planned by the Tibeti.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by svinayak »

DavidD wrote:
Ameet wrote:Tibetan exiles in Dharamsala, India, settle in with disillusionment
Some who fled Chinese rule for tales of paradise find life isn't what they expected. Others say the tradeoffs are worth it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 0830.story
Pretty interesting quotes:
"When I was in China, friends told me Dharamsala was a paradise, you didn't even need money," said Golma, 39, who uses one name. She arrived here several years ago with her husband and young daughter.

"But life isn't easy, and this place is quite dirty," she said, pointing to an open sewer strewn with plastic bags, animal waste and rotting vegetables. "I couldn't believe the Dalai Lama would live in such a messy place."
For restaurant manager Rabsel, the ability to speak his mind far outweighs any resettlement problems. As a young monk, he saw fellow clerics beaten and tortured. He was subject to re-education sessions by Chinese security officials, who insisted that he denounce the Dalai Lama as a "cannibal" and a "wolf in monk's clothing."

"I couldn't imagine staying," he said. "If you only care about money, you can have a good life in China."

Others, however, said most people who remain in Tibet just want to feed their families
If you make a political ruckus in China you're likely to get in trouble, added Golma, who was dressed in a traditional Tibetan chupa robe, knockoff Crocs and worn green socks. "But there's also freedom in enjoying your life."
Seems to me like Tibetans go to Dharmasala for many reasons, and those who are there for the wrong reasons are regretting it. BTW, I believe the writer is actually from the Los Angeles Times.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/22 ... a-20100922
Chicago times did similar news story on Nepal people in the early 1990s. They ended up in US and supported the Maoists against India.

Watch out if similar things are being tried out on Tibetians. Tibetians are gullible since they have been cut off from the freeworld. They are being brainwashed with this kind of questions.
Even Larry King in the interview of HHDL asked if India is good for HHDL and is India treating them well.
The purpose is to show that China is OK for Tibet and cultural extinction is OK. This is the same US which talks about freedom and democracy worldwide.The western media is trying to show that PRC is a free country for its citizens.
svinayak
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by svinayak »

DavidD wrote:
Ameet wrote:Tibetan exiles in Dharamsala, India, settle in with disillusionment
Some who fled Chinese rule for tales of paradise find life isn't what they expected. Others say the tradeoffs are worth it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 0830.story
Pretty interesting quotes:
"When I was in China, friends told me Dharamsala was a paradise, you didn't even need money," said Golma, 39, who uses one name. She arrived here several years ago with her husband and young daughter.

"But life isn't easy, and this place is quite dirty," she said, pointing to an open sewer strewn with plastic bags, animal waste and rotting vegetables. "I couldn't believe the Dalai Lama would live in such a messy place."

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/22 ... a-20100922
Chicago times did similar news story on Nepal people in the early 1990s. They ended up in US and supported the Maoists against India.

Watch out if similar things are being tried out on Tibetians. Tibetians are gullible since they have been cut off from the freeworld. They are being brainwashed with this kind of questions.
Even Larry King in the interview of HHDL asked if India is good for HHDL and is India treating them well.
The purpose is to show that China is OK for Tibet and cultural extinction is OK. This is the same US which talks about freedom and democracy worldwide.The western media is trying to show that PRC is a free country for its citizens.

These reports could be PRC sponsored reports to get support for China. US media is a tool in their hands and they have been subtle in using it to promote the PRC regime.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by AdityaM »

I wonder if moving to India was the right move by HH and his men.
India drew them into complacency, with a false sense of security. They believed that India would help them regain what they left behind. And india failed them on that count.
perhaps they would have been better off being in exile in europe or usa.
As time progresses, few Indians are aware or care for the cause of tibet. And as time passes, Tibetans have & will grow roots here, and get used to this place and forget why they are here. Being uprooted once is traumatic enough, who want to be uprooted twice!?
Do the Tibetans in india have a growing middle class which like our own middle class cares only for its upward financial rise by whichever means possible and cares little for other esoteric concepts like ethics, culture and scruples.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by svinayak »

AdityaM wrote:I wonder if moving to India was the right move by HH and his men.
India drew them into complacency, with a false sense of security. They believed that India would help them regain what they left behind. And india failed them on that count.
perhaps they would have been better off being in exile in europe or usa.
As time progresses, few Indians are aware or care for the cause of tibet. And as time passes, Tibetans have & will grow roots here, and get used to this place and forget why they are here. Being uprooted once is traumatic enough, who want to be uprooted twice!?
In 1950s there was no doubt about the take over of Tibet by the PLA red army and killings of innocent Tibetians.

PLA and PRC has given a image of normal country in the last 50 years.
Indians have been subject of media control to reduce their knowledge of Tibet and Indian history in the same 50 years.
Indian education/text books and media was diverted away from the core history of India.
Last edited by svinayak on 28 Nov 2010 01:15, edited 2 times in total.
AdityaM
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by AdityaM »

the only knowledge indians have of tibetans is that :
1) They are Buddhists
2) They dress up like monks
3) They eat Momos
4) They are "chinkis"() :evil: and hence chinese rather than a separate identity
joshvajohn
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by joshvajohn »

Cultural genocide taking place in Tibet, says Dalai Lama
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Cultural- ... 28496.aspx


Australian Parliament Convenes Hearing on Tibet
http://www.tibetcustom.com/article.php/ ... 6205817305

Religious Freedom In Tibet
"The level of religious repression in the Tibet Autonomous Region and other Tibetan areas remains high."
http://www.voanews.com/policy/editorial ... 65809.html
rohitvats
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by rohitvats »

As someone who belongs to Dharamshala, I've seen tibetans pretty close and know a thing or two about them.

One disturbing thing is that there are sections of the newer generation which wants to settle abroad - that seems to be the only motive. And younger lot is far more militant in its outlook than some of the older generations. But the reverence for the institution of HH Dalai Lama is intact and there seems to be no wavering from that fact.

Also, while the Tibetans community interacts with Indians day in and day out....there is no assimilation. In all these years, I've not heard of even a single Indo-Tibetan marriage....this when one has multiple instances of locals marrying foreigners of various hues(who came as tourists). The distinct Tibetan identity is very much intact and will remain as such.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by DavidD »

Acharya wrote: Chicago times did similar news story on Nepal people in the early 1990s. They ended up in US and supported the Maoists against India.

Watch out if similar things are being tried out on Tibetians. Tibetians are gullible since they have been cut off from the freeworld. They are being brainwashed with this kind of questions.
Even Larry King in the interview of HHDL asked if India is good for HHDL and is India treating them well.
The purpose is to show that China is OK for Tibet and cultural extinction is OK. This is the same US which talks about freedom and democracy worldwide.The western media is trying to show that PRC is a free country for its citizens.

These reports could be PRC sponsored reports to get support for China. US media is a tool in their hands and they have been subtle in using it to promote the PRC regime.
That's possible, but that suggestion is no more valid than the millions of Chinese who are convinced that the western media is out to get them. I think the truth, as always, lies somewhere in between. The CCP is most most definitely attempting, and succeeding, in cultural genocide. The goal is assimilation, no doubt about that. The thing is though, for many people(judging by the current Chinese population, I'd say a majority), it doesn't REALLY matter. They'll be satisfied with getting wealthier, eating better food, living in better houses, and wearing better clothes. When those types of people go to Dharmasala, they'll likely be disappointed. OTOH, some people are naturally more spiritually-inclined than others, and those people indeed find paradise the paradise they're looking for across the border.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Victor »

DavidD, for those Tibetans who risk their lives to leave what may be a more "comfortable" life in Tibet and escape to India, it is the forced "assimilation" you mention that they are running away from. The refugees are a cross section of Tibetan society, from the poorest farmer to the highest Lama and surprisingly, many are not motivated by religious matters alone. They felt it was better to risk death in reaching India than to stay and be "assimilated". It is well known in Tibet that Dharamsala is not a particularly rich and comfortable place but thousands still arrive there every year. Go figure.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by svinayak »

DavidD wrote:
That's possible, but that suggestion is no more valid than the millions of Chinese who are convinced that the western media is out to get them. I think the truth, as always, lies somewhere in between. The CCP is most most definitely attempting, and succeeding, in cultural genocide. The goal is assimilation, no doubt about that. The thing is though, for many people(judging by the current Chinese population, I'd say a majority), it doesn't REALLY matter. They'll be satisfied with getting wealthier, eating better food, living in better houses, and wearing better clothes. When those types of people go to Dharmasala, they'll likely be disappointed. OTOH, some people are naturally more spiritually-inclined than others, and those people indeed find paradise the paradise they're looking for across the border.
Do you expect us to believe this.
US newspapers are also can be manipulated in a subtle way to project a point of view.
India know about such things since India has around 25000 daily news publication. The largest online news publications get more than 300+ million page views per month. Hope you dont take people in the forum as stupid.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Victor »

rohitvats wrote:As someone who belongs to Dharamshala....
Rohit, I have not been to Dharamsala but educated Tibetans have integrated very well where the jobs are, not just Delhi/Mumbai/Bangalore/Chennai/Kolkata but even in small cities like Guwahati. They are doing very well as everything from restaurateurs and software engineers to Bollywood hairstylists. Not to mention SFF.

About the "assimilation" part, note my reply to DavidD. It is rare for an Indian family to even consider marriage outside one's community, even in "progressive" urban areas, and it is rarer still for Tibetan families because they are desperate to preserve their stock. Some Tibetans who want a ticket to a developed country will marry foreigners ONLY if they adopt Tibetan Buddhism as a lifestyle which it appears a lot of westerners have a mysterious attraction for. I also have no doubt that there are Tibetans who feel that the easiest way to the West is through Dharamsala. That's OK as long as they go on an Indian-issued/approved Tibetan passport (Green Book) :mrgreen:. The sage Padmasambhava who took Buddhism to Tibet is said to have foretold: "when the iron bird flies, the Dharma will go to the West".
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Victor »

The Moral Defence Rests
Tenzin Tsundue11 November 2009, 12:00am IST

When Manmohan Singh clearly and courageously said last month that there was no question of his government cancelling the Dalai Lama's Arunachal
Pradesh visit, i was proud. As refugees in India, it is painful for us Tibetans to witness Beijing bureaucrats laying down the law to our host government in arrogant, bullying terms. This visit's historic importance is that it swings back focus on the McMahon Line and therefore Tibet. That's why China was so impatient to shoot it down. The result of this pivotal visit will be a realisation that, without reinstating Tibet as a buffer zone, India will forever be subjected to pressures: militarily, politically, environmentally and, now, over water.

Many Indians do not realise the pressure that Beijing is exerting on New Delhi. They portray the visit as yet another China-Dalai Lama showdown. The fundamental problem China has is with Indian borders. It did not need a Dalai Lama to add to its rants. Dealing with China is tricky; a capitalist nation, ruled by a Communist-style party in the name of socialism, is aggressive and hugely defensive. One cannot lose a point; concede one point and you become subordinate. That is why Barack Obama has armed himself for his first Beijing visit as US president with Dalai Lama power, prepared to punch home points with Chinese President Hu Jintao. After facing Hu, he will still get to meet the Dalai Lama.

A unique bond with the Monpas of Buddhist Tawang has led to the 14th Dalai Lama's fifth visit to India's ''Land of Dawn-lit mountains''. The programme at Tawang monastery is solely to impart Buddhist teachings. It is at a most appropriate time, when the Indian government needs to assert its territorial rights in Arunachal Pradesh. In the face of China's strident claims over Arunachal, the Tibetan leader's spiritual visit to his followers legitimises India's stance in the most significant yet entirely non-verbal manner.

Historically, Tawang was Tibetan territory until early last century. Even today many families in the region retain ancestral tax papers for making payments to the government of Tibet. During the Chinese invasion of Tibet, India unilaterally declared the McMahon Line as the border and swiftly evicted the remaining Tibetan officials from the local administration in 1950. Arunachal Pradesh as a state was formed in 1987; till then it was part of the North East Frontier Agency.

The 6th Dalai Lama by virtue of his birth in Tawang in 1683 made sacred this 2,000 sq km region. The Great 13th Dalai Lama ceded the region to British India in 1914 by signing the bilateral McMahon Treaty in Delhi. The 14th incarnation is today symbolically and silently gifting it again to India. The Dalai Lama and his government-in-exile in Dharamsala have repeatedly confirmed that they honour the 13th Dalai Lama's decision. For the Tibetan populace, within and outside Tibet, Arunachal Pradesh is a part of India.

In 2004, Sun Yuxi, then Chinese ambassador to India, made that ill-phrased claim over Arunachal not just Tawang, he said, but ''the whole of it''. Former Indian prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee rescued Sikkim from China's ambitions by surrendering India's remaining authority to speak on Tibet and, recently, a Chinese map portrayed Kashmir as an independent country.

China is not going to stop there since Beijing refuses to recognise the 1914 McMahon Line and the Simla Agreement also. It is most likely to question the territorial integrity of the remainder of the 890 km McMahon Line, the Demchok region in eastern Ladakh and the Sumdho area of the eastern Himachal Pradesh border. Having one of its vital military installations at Sumdho (Tibet: trisection) between Tibet and Himachal's Lahaul-Spiti, India is expected to counter any attempts on Sumdho with armed might.

As schoolboys in a Tibetan refugee camp, we used to be marched out once in a while for Free Tibet protest rallies. We shouted slogans in Tibetan and English but never understood this phrase in Hindi: ''Tibbat ki azadi, Bharat ki suraksha'' (Tibet's independence is India's security). It never made sense to me until later, when i realised how India had accepted Tibetan refugees fleeing Chinese persecution, nurtured us and reinforced us not with guns but with education.

The Tibetan armed resistance, based in Mustang, western Nepal, and disbanded in 1974, was later reconstituted into a Tibetan battalion in the Indian army known as Establishment No 22, a classified paramilitary force deployed in important operations like the Kargil war. Today, 7,000 Tibetan soldiers under the ministry of home affairs - man the most difficult and dangerous borders in India's mountainous terrain.

For India to keep Arunachal, based on the McMahon Line, the only choice is to recognise Tibet's independence. It cannot legitimise the McMahon Line border otherwise. Faced with this political reality, India may not be able to summon the courage to support the movement for Tibetan independence overtly, but it is important that it stands firm on its position.

The writer is a Tibetan activist.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by Christopher Sidor »

^^^
Well said Tenzin. I hope one day you will live in a Tibet which is free from ALL foreign oppression. May Buddha guide you.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by AKalam »

Buddhism and making the birthplace and cradle of Buddhism, India, a center for Buddhist learning, has tremendous strategic importance for the subcontinental influence and soft-power in Eastern Asia. Making Sri Lanka and Myanmar a part of the proposed and future SAARC union and making Tibet an independent buffer state (if ever possible) would be steps in this strategic direction.

I read somewhere in the Berzin Archives that the Beijing CPC worries about and restricts the practice of Buddhism much more than it worries about Islam, which is not an existential threat for the PRC populations mind share, where there is a vacuum currently with the decline of communism and rise of capitalism there. Han Chauvinistic nationalism may not be enough to fill this vacuum for spiritual need and only Buddhism in the garb of a renewed neo-confucianism has the potential to fill this vacuum and of course Christianity being the other contender, which has not much of a long history in PRC region. But looking at S Korea, one wonders if Christianity eventually may win in PRC.

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... china.html
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav ... 68580.html

Buddhism has the potential and can counter the influence of Christianity in many strategic spaces within Asia and increase Subcontinental soft power in these spaces and reduce western influence. While a poor subcontinental dark brown man is not someone to follow now, hopefully this will change with the economic rise of India and others in the subcontinent who may join in a Union with it and that will create a situation where it may become attractive again, as it was in the days of Ashoka, to follow the subcontinent, as a leader of thought and culture.

As a side note, I believe there is no threat for SD from Buddhism, as it is not possible for Buddhism to spread and gain share from SD population of the subcontinent, just as it is not possible for Islam to make much headway in the subcontinent to gain converts in the future, but the same cannot be said about the other Abrahamic world religion which is fighting to gain a convert population in strategic vacuum spaces, piggybacking the still prevalent economic, knowledge and military preeminence of the West.

Religion and empire has been intimately tied since the advent of empires, so a subcontinent with a majority SD population, a size-able Muslim population and a size-able Buddhist population has the potential to become influential in Muslim and Buddhist spaces of the world, leveraging the populations with similar creed from within the subcontinent, I believe.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by naren »

AKalam wrote:As a side note, I believe there is no threat for SD from Buddhism, as it is not possible for Buddhism to spread and gain share from SD population of the subcontinent, just as it is not possible for Islam to make much headway in the subcontinent to gain converts in the future, but the same cannot be said about the other Abrahamic world religion which is fighting to gain a convert population in strategic vacuum spaces, piggybacking the still prevalent economic, knowledge and military preeminence of the West.
+1 to that.

The convergence between Buddhism and Advaita were discussed in Philosophy Thread.
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Re: Tibet watch

Post by krisna »

The second coming
While Jiabo brokered big trade deals in New Delhi, the 75-year-old Dalai Lama had an equally important mission at hand. He was visiting the little-known regions of Kalimpong, Salugara and Sikkim, conducting spiritual discourses, meeting the local Tibetan population, and helping strengthen and protect the Tibetan identity of these areas. His entire trip lasted 13 days.
And sometime later this year, the Dalai Lama will ‘retire.’
“He is born a Dalai Lama. There is no post of Dalai Lama from which he retires. He will only be relinquishing his political and administrative duties. He will continue to remain the spiritual head of Tibetans,” clarifies Tenzin Taklha, spokesperson at the Dalai Lama’s office. But the Dalai Lama was quite clear in his statement issued in late November that he plans to retire in six months.
Who’ll be the next leader?
But will his retirement create a leadership vacuum in the exiled Tibetan community? Isn’t that what the Chinese government has been waiting for — a time when the Dalai Lama won’t be around to prick the world’s conscience on the issue of Tibet’s freedom?
Although the Dalai Lama has said that he will always be there to guide the new leadership, given his advancing age, there might soon come a time when he is not around. He has also said that the lineage of the Dalai Lama might stop after him, if the Tibetan community so wishes. Even if this does not happen, given the usual time taken for a new Dalai Lama to be anointed (at least two decades, from the death of one Dalai Lama to another being ready to take up the position), the Tibetan community might indeed be in a state of crisis.
The second biggest figure in Tibetan Buddhism — the Panchen Lama — is mired in controversy, and, when the time comes, he may play an instrumental role in choosing the 15th Dalai Lama. In fact, there are not one but two Panchen Lamas. The one approved by the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan community, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, languishes somewhere in Tibet, hidden from the public eye. Considered the world’s youngest political prisoner, he disappeared immediately after he was recognised in 1995 as the new Panchen Lama. He was only six years old then. There is little to guess about those behind this. The Chinese government has propped up its own Panchen Lama, and given the fact that in Tibetan tradition the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama usually anoint each other, many fear that the ‘Chinese’ Panchen Lama will declare a ‘Chinese’ 15th Dalai Lama.
The election for the next kalon tripa (prime minister) of the Tibetan government-in-exile is currently underway.
Takhla clarifies that it will be an elected leader and not the Karmapa Lama who will politically lead the exiled community. “This has been the Dalai Lama’s wish for a very long time — that the Tibetan community is democratically mature enough to find its own leader. And he thinks the time has come, seeing the impressive leaders that are now emerging,” says Takhla.
A total of 15 candidates contested the first round of elections in October, 2010 (held in India, Nepal, Bhutan, Australia, the US, Europe and elsewhere). The second and final round with the top three contestants will take place on March 20. Among them, and widely tipped to be the next kalon tripa, is Lobsang Sangay, 43, who is currently a senior fellow at Harvard Law School.
Good that democrazy is taking strong roots in tibetan community. Chinese pawns must also take part in the democratic elections if they have to take any new post among the community. :twisted: :evil:
India( or its politicians) should make press statements saying that democracy is good for tibet and all should participate in it etc etc. :wink:
China will be trying to put an end to resistance by tibetans thru' the panchen lama. Hope tibetans stay united and defeat chinese evil designs.
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