Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

R_Kumar · Post by **R_Kumar** » 04 Dec 2008 14:01

narayana wrote:
RayC wrote: What makes you feel so?

Because porki Nuke arsenal are under unkils command,if not directly unkil knows much about those,he wont allow it to happen,and pakistan Knows that.and they may not be able to survive financially in event of a nuke strike on karachi or islamabad,they are already bankrupt.it may be possible pakistan will disintegrate in the chaos aftermath of a nuke attack.and believe me india's second strike will be very massive.

Overzealous people can harm you even if it means that it will destroy them in doing so. And remember beggar has nothing to loose. Pakistan is going down anyway why not we play smart and accelerate this process.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 Dec 2008 14:05

Some IT/Vity firms have given travel advisory. The final advice is that if possible avoid air travel during this week end and coming week.

amit · Post by **amit** » 04 Dec 2008 14:16

Dmurphy wrote:
Singha wrote:you can imagine what it takes to traumatize a post-mortem doc, who does dead bodies every day. it takes a lot to shake them up.
There was once an Israeli called on CNN after yet another attack on Jerusalem. His profession: To collect splintered body parts after every bomb attack.

If I'm not mistaken these guys are called Zaka. They are the ones who came to Mumbai unannounced and initially claimed that the Jewish hostages were killed by NSG gunfire (that is in the crossfire).

It required an almighty Jhapad from the Israeli Foreign Ministry to shut them up. All this happened just after the siege ended as far as I can recall.

amit · Post by **amit** » 04 Dec 2008 14:19

Singha wrote:you can imagine what it takes to traumatize a post-mortem doc, who does dead bodies every day. it takes a lot to shake them up.

I have a feeling this may have a lot to do, along with the evidence collected so far, in hardening of the US position.

Of course it could still be that Condi's tough talk was to ensure that India didn't jump the gun an go ahead with a pre-preemptive strike.

Just like the Pakis the US also has to show some concrete action to show that they are indeed our friends.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 04 Dec 2008 14:20

harbans wrote:10 terrorists?

Lets see..

2 in CST (Ismail and caught pig)

2 in Nariman House

2 in Hospitals/ Leopold Cafe ?

That leaves 4 terrorists for Trident, Oberoi and Taj?

Is that possible?

I have serious doubts and issues with there being 10 terrorists.

AFAIK, the 2 at CST and the 2 at Hospitals/Metro/Girgaum-Skoda are the same. Kasab was one of them.

The 2 at Leopold are the pigs which holed up at Nariman House later.

That leaves 6 pigs to lap up Taj and Oberoi/Trident.

harbans wrote:Indeed RAW and IB did not fail. They pointed out there was an attack due from the sea. But the Maharashtra CM/ Dy CM trashed the info.

Please forgive this Kafir for asking this...but i always wondered how the RAW/IB can wash their hands off this by just saying "I told you so".

If a statutory warning like "an attack due from the sea" is enough to prove their competency and innocence, all they have to do is wake up in the morning, shoot off a prescheduled email/post to all the state Govts about an impending attack via the sea/air/ground/man holes and sleep easy. As some big shot said, the warnings have to be "actionable"

I'm not trying to defend the babus here, they are guilty of not acting on the Afzal Gurus when it was needed. And they have to pay for it as well.

amit · Post by **amit** » 04 Dec 2008 14:25

Sachin wrote:Some IT/Vity firms have given travel advisory. The final advice is that if possible avoid air travel during this week end and coming week.

If you recall the "Deccan Muhajideen" just gave a warning of attacking the Chennai, Bangalore and Delhi airports.

I hope that's not the only "intelligence" that the government is working with to prevent another 9/11.

But I've got a question, god forbid if there's a civilian plane hijacked and being flown with the intention to crash it into some prominent building or tech park, will Major order his pilots to shoot the plane down?

I hope rules of engagement have been formulated and there's no hand wringing and what to do, what do kind of bally hoo.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Dec 2008 14:33

An intelligence agency source added: “One of the terrorists was shot through either eye.”

NSG double tap !

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 04 Dec 2008 14:40

Murphy ji, RAW and IB don't do the micromanaging affairs on the ground. They work on intercepts, intercepts passed on by foreign bureaus and stuff. The US Prez for example is briefed by the CIA almost on a daily basis! I doubt our PMs are that strategy conscious. It's unfair to say they'll give some vague all encompassing inputs on a daily basis and sleep easy.

The problem in this case was the Maha CM/ Dy CM trashed the info. They know that. But the info provided was specific to a large extent, that Terrorists would enter Mumbai by a sea route. The dhow junctions, Port terminals security levels whould have been raised to level 3 (imminent security threat levels). There is already an established mechanism and procedure by contracting Governments, India included to that. The GO Maha did not do that! It did not increase patrolling in the areas, neither send alerts to the BPT/ Mazagaon area. It simply did ZILCH! Whereas it could have done a lot.

On Aerial Threats now:

This is a brazen and very confident threat. I doubt with so much security in place they will be hijacking planes 911 style. What i feel they might attempt to do is breach airport perimeter fences and attack fidayeen style aircrafts on tarmacs, use RPGs and grenades, create chaos.

Another thing they might attempt to do is launch RPG attacks on aircraft taking off/ landing?

Just speculating though here. Wonder if planners are taking such things into consideration.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 04 Dec 2008 14:41

amit wrote:But I've got a question, god forbid if there's a civilian plane hijacked and being flown with the intention to crash it into some prominent building or tech park, will Major order his pilots to shoot the plane down?

AFAIK, the answer is YES

IIRC, they have a SAM battery installed near 7, Race Course and Parliament - a la White House. Its better, though not desirable, to shoot down a plane with 300 hundred on board than have them crash into Nuke silo or the Parliament or the release of some Masood Azhar in return.

On second thoughts, let them do the parliament thing.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Dec 2008 14:44

anywhere in lutyens delhi is no skin off our arse.

we have been thrown to the dogs, let them burn.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Dec 2008 14:47

amit wrote:. . . god forbid if there's a civilian plane hijacked and being flown with the intention to crash it into some prominent building or tech park, will Major order his pilots to shoot the plane down?

I doubt if we will have a clear cut policy on this. The politicians will be too sensitive to having strong SOPs. That was why we released terrorists when the daughter of Mufti Mohammed Sayeed was abducted, and Masood Azhar and others after the Kandahar hijack.

My current worry is such a hijacking at this point will be more to get the release of the girlie-boy like Kandahar rather than a 9/11 type air attack. ISI will do everything to eliminate or recover the girlie boy.

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 04 Dec 2008 14:49

Pak vows to crack on terror, gets US praise

So they promised to to crack on their a$$es and got a praise from Rice

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 04 Dec 2008 14:52

harbans wrote:Murphy ji, RAW and IB don't do the micromanaging affairs on the ground....

All that you said is debatable. The actual happenings (like the time of launch, no of pigs etc) in Karachi/Pak have to be known by IB/RAW and not the Maharashtra Police/ATS. So any warning on the lines 'Cigarette Smoking is Injurous' to health is ZILCH!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Dec 2008 14:53

SSridhar wrote:...........
My current worry is such a hijacking at this point will be more to get the release of the girlie-boy like Kandahar rather than a 9/11 type air attack. ISI will do everything to eliminate or recover the girlie boy.

why ?

girlie boy won't give any information that would blow ISI. he won't have them in the first place.

if you are talking about proof, I would humbly suggest that the ISI doesn't care for it. proof of ISI hand in terrorism everywhere has already reached saturation point, girlie boy really doesn't change anything.

beyond serving as an inspiration, I don't see how girlie-boy would be valuable to ISI.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 04 Dec 2008 15:05

asbchakri wrote:Pak vows to crack on terror, gets US praise

So they promised to to crack on their a$$es and got a praise from Rice

All this noise & show by Pranab & Condi for nothing

These people never fail to dissapoint.

So this is the first step...USA pretends that Pak is serious.
Next step will be to claim that FBI has not found any substantive proof & it could be local element.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 04 Dec 2008 15:16

AdityaM wrote:
asbchakri wrote:Pak vows to crack on terror, gets US praise

So they promised to to crack on their a$$es and got a praise from Rice

So this means they accepted that porkis are involved in the attack?

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 04 Dec 2008 15:21

Nitesh wrote:So this means they accepted that porkis are involved in the attack?

You bet!

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 04 Dec 2008 15:24

Nitesh wrote:
AdityaM wrote:
So this means they accepted that porkis are involved in the attack?

Nope, it means 'Elements' in porkistan are invoved. and they will 'Crack' on them like they were doing until now

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 04 Dec 2008 15:24

EDITED - REF http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 72#p581772

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 04 Dec 2008 15:29

asbchakri wrote:Nope, it means 'Elements' in porkistan are invoved. and they will 'Crack' on them like they were doing until now

Dude, thats a start. Zardari was raising doubts about Kasab's Paki origin.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Dec 2008 15:33

excerpt from rediff. logically the remaining 5 metro cities are the chosen places for the next spectacular attack. take your pick and say your prayers.

===
An ATS official said that these are early stages of investigation. "However, we are now sure that the boat from Karachi did not come to Mumbai first. We have alerted our counterparts in Gujarat and questioning some fishermen in this regard. We do not want to reveal too much as it could cause a sense of panic. However let me assure you that the situation is under control and the security agencies of the respective states are on high alert," the official said.

The IB says that they have received specific information that the Lashkar-e-Tayiba had plans of carrying out a series of attacks in India. The targets were Mumbai, Delhi [Images] and Gujarat and several men have been trained for this. While the boat which came in from Karachi may have dropped off a few men at Gujarat, some of the militants (14) could have moved towards New Delhi to carry out a similar attack. The security agencies in both Gujarat and New Delhi have been sounded off following this revelations, investigating agencies say.

The IB says that apart from Mumbai and New Delhi, Gujarat is on the Lashkar hit list. A series of attacks have been planned on the state. In LeT training camps in Muzafarabad and Karachi, the video on the Gujarat riots is the most popular tool used to brainwash youth and motivate them into the deadly terror path.

Meanwhile, an officer of the Anti-Terrorism Squad in Ahmedabad [Images] told rediff.com, "Our preliminary investigations have not revealed of any terrorists landing in Gujarat. We are still taking the matter seriously. Our deeper investigations are still on and we will not spare any effort to know if the terrorists from Pakistan have used Gujarat as a transit route. We are doing speedy investigations into the entire issue of the coastal security breach."

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 04 Dec 2008 15:37

EDITED.

NOTE: I dont know what your beef is with Amber G but please desist.

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 04 Dec 2008 15:38

Dmurphy wrote:
asbchakri wrote:Nope, it means 'Elements' in porkistan are invoved. and they will 'Crack' on them like they were doing until now
Dude, thats a start. Zardari was raising doubts about Kasab's Paki origin.

Well we can believe it only when he really does it. Also it would depend on how much our netas put pressure on them. They should be relentless. And i dont think the Americans have any doubt who is behind it.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 04 Dec 2008 15:39

IB covering Asses fearing masses of left foot landings.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 04 Dec 2008 15:42

http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20081204/8 ... ere_1.html

New Delhi, Dec.4 (ANI): The lone terrorist who was picked up alive after last week's terror attacks, Ajmal Amir Kasav,has said that attackers were motivated to strike after seeing video footage of Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi and Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) leader Praveen Togadia "spitting venom" against jihad and Pakistan.

Police nabbed Kasav following an encounter.

'We were shown footage of Narendra Modi and Praveen Togadia,' Kasav told his interrogators.

The interrogation report also says that the terrorists were shown footage of "Gujarat carnage and atrocities on Muslims in India" to rouse religious ill feelings.

He and other terrorists in the training camps were subjected to severe beatings by their trainers in order to develop resistance against any kind of interrogation.

Ajmal also revealed that all the terrorists were involved in the attack were between 20 to 28 years of age.

The terror group, which attacked Mumbai, was imparted training at various camps and in different groups, before assembling near Karachi,the interrogation has revealed.

'We never met earlier,all the 10 attackers met for the first time in September',Kasav has claimed.

He said Mufti Sayeed, Fahadullah, Ustad Abdul Rahman and Abu Anus gave them maritime training and taught how to use the sophisticated weapons and grenades.

Investigators say that those of named by Ajmal as tutors, many had retired from Pakistan Army and were imparting training at Lashkar camps in coordination with the ISI.

The first of the training camps took place in December last year, he said. (ANI)

amit · Post by **amit** » 04 Dec 2008 15:42

SSridhar wrote:My current worry is such a hijacking at this point will be more to get the release of the girlie-boy like Kandahar rather than a 9/11 type air attack. ISI will do everything to eliminate or recover the girlie boy.

I'm not too sure ISI would attempt something like that. Where would they take the girlie-boy to?
There's no friendly Kandahar this time around.

But more to the point, if an Indian plane is to be hijacked then IMO it would be difficult from an Indian airport. However, Kathmandu, Dhaka or even Mauritius would be the place. Or they could even engineer a hijacking from a Paki airport to show that it is "stateless" actors acting on Paki stage.

IMO Harbans point of an RPG attack is highly probable. Most of our airports have slums around them and it should be easy to hide there.

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 04 Dec 2008 15:46

John Snow wrote:IB covering Asses fearing masses of left foot landings.

One more attack like this one in any other metro especcially Delhi now, thats it ! whole of India would be outraged and i dont think anyone the Babus or US for that matter could do anything to save Porkistan. The mood of the Indians is not anything like before, they have finally woken up and are pushing teh politicians to do some action and the babus have no option in this election year.

vdas · Post by **vdas** » 04 Dec 2008 16:03

IMHO:
1. No further terrorist activity in near future will take place ... sleeper cell will go in hibernation ( will try to recruit as many )
2. I feel there would be a lull for 1-1.5 years. ( We will not do anything ... Indi-Paki bhai bhai will start again )
3. By this time BJP would have come into power.
4. Then another terrorist activity will take place this time on eastern/southern sector .. sponsered by Bangladesh and some local recruits will be involved and the reason will be hardliners coming into power ... or maybe increase in Naxal activity..sponserd by china through nepal

then the same drama will continue ...

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Dec 2008 16:06

This is how the cookie crumbles...

Rice tells Islamabad US expects 'robust' response to Mumbai attacks

During her brief visit, Rice first met the head of Pakistan's powerful army, General Ashfaq Kayani, before holding talks with Zardari and the prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, who lead an eight-month-old civilian government.

now you can see who's who and what's what and the role that zar-das-si and gila monster play in the big scheme of things

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 04 Dec 2008 16:10

vdas wrote:IMHO:
1. No further terrorist activity in near future will take place ... sleeper cell will go in hibernation ( will try to recruit as many )
2. I feel there would be a lull for 1-1.5 years. ( We will not do anything ... Indi-Paki bhai bhai will start again )
3. By this time BJP would have come into power.
4. Then another terrorist activity will take place this time on eastern/southern sector .. sponsered by Bangladesh and some local recruits will be involved and the reason will be hardliners coming into power ... or maybe increase in Naxal activity..sponserd by china through nepal

then the same drama will continue ...

Exactly my thoughts!
Pakistan must love this Govt so they will not do anything more in the immediate future to push it to a corner. Even if they do this time it will be thru BD piglets to add to the deniability. They need the attacks to keep their flock unitedly focussed on India and to keep the adrenalin pumped in the piglet camps so the attacks wont stop completely for sure.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 04 Dec 2008 16:12

asbchakri wrote:
John Snow wrote:IB covering Asses fearing masses of left foot landings.
One more attack like this one in any other metro especcially Delhi now, thats it ! whole of India would be outraged and i dont think anyone the Babus or US for that matter could do anything to save Porkistan. The mood of the Indians is not anything like before, they have finally woken up and are pushing teh politicians to do some action and the babus have no option in this election year.

err..who do you think will take on Pakistan? not this current govt!

By the way, it seems criticism of Barkha dutt has hit home!
here she is defending herself:
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/mu ... pe=opinion

Did anyone see the discussion involving Parthasarthy's (on timesnow i think)
He was of the opinion that India should make it clear that it will take action against Pak, Bladesh and China if required.
At last someone spoke of China in the same breadth as Pakistan.
pity, they realise this only after having retired

vdas · Post by **vdas** » 04 Dec 2008 16:19

Lalmohan ji,
I think the reason condi has come is to apply some "marham pati" on both the sides, as you would have read Shiv's e-book on Pakistan .... they always go for a third party for negotiations. The third party is US. Since they know the mood in india has reached boiling point ...... So US's finding on this case will be a confusing report ....

In this case with US intervention i think we have lost the edge now. US now will ask pakistan to take some hard actions which would mean closing few camps ( or shifting them to some other area ) ..... India which is hoping US/UK/EU to do something will be left with a carrot..... Maybe make india partner in some G-8 , P-5 etc councils .....( since india is a good boy and pakistan a bad boy ) ...

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 04 Dec 2008 16:19

Lalmohan wrote:This is how the cookie crumbles...

Rice tells Islamabad US expects 'robust' response to Mumbai attacks

During her brief visit, Rice first met the head of Pakistan's powerful army, General Ashfaq Kayani, before holding talks with Zardari and the prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, who lead an eight-month-old civilian government.

now you can see who's who and what's what and the role that zar-das-si and gila monster play in the big scheme of things

Well Zarda-Pan-walla and Gill-Lala are both teh Front Office boys who sit in the Reception, while the Power lies with Ass-******-ki-ani. So there is no option for india but to go in and clean the mess ourself.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 04 Dec 2008 16:20

My take on this issue is like this... the results of the ongoing elections will shape the policy of cong govt.. if cong loses this election then i can assure you there WILL be some action.. else if cong comes out with a good scorecard then you can forget it..... nothing will happen till election results come out....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Dec 2008 16:24

vdas wrote:IMHO:
1. No further terrorist activity in near future will take place ... sleeper cell will go in hibernation ( will try to recruit as many )
2. I feel there would be a lull for 1-1.5 years. ( We will not do anything ... Indi-Paki bhai bhai will start again )
3. By this time BJP would have come into power.
4. Then another terrorist activity will take place this time on eastern/southern sector .. sponsered by Bangladesh and some local recruits will be involved and the reason will be hardliners coming into power ... or maybe increase in Naxal activity..sponserd by china through nepal

then the same drama will continue ...

Correct.

Why does vdas or shiv or someone on BRF say it and why does the government not seem to understand?

It is because I believe the politicians have no intention o ability to read and undestand history.
Pakistan is teaching its children hatred of India and the earliest generation are in their 30s. This can only get worse and after each attack the GoI wil apply band aids like "CBM" cease fire and joint anti-terror apparatus.

If your wife gets raped you do not join with the rapist in a joint investigation into all cases of rape.

Is that so difficult to understand? What is it that makes our government be so idiotic?

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 04 Dec 2008 16:27

Shiv,

As you rightly said, the joint-investigation is as ridiculous as asking the rapist to join the 'medical examination' of victim.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 04 Dec 2008 16:29

The 'pro-terrorist' Congress will attack only because they need to win elections and stay relevant. They didn't hang Afzal just to play the vote bank politics. Do you think they will shy away from this?

My guess is that they will launch some attacks in first week of Feb so that they can gain significant mileage out of it.

That's our 'pro-terrorist' Congress party, we will pay politics with National Security.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 04 Dec 2008 16:32

milindc... if cong loses the current elections and wants to stay relevant then it will be coerced to do something... though i still feel afzal guru will not be hanged.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 04 Dec 2008 16:39

He said Mufti Sayeed, Fahadullah, Ustad Abdul Rahman and Abu Anus gave them maritime training and taught how to use the sophisticated weapons and grenades.

Investigators say that those of named by Ajmal as tutors, many had retired from Pakistan Army and were imparting training at Lashkar camps in coordination with the ISI.

Aby Anus? You can't be serious!

Whats next I wonder, Abu Anussbaum?

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 04 Dec 2008 16:40

Sigh I used to think ATS is good at leaking stories to press. They suck even in that! The leaks/press conference of last three days are contradictory. They should stop this now and make sure they have detected all bombs.