Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

samuel · Post by **samuel** » 07 Jan 2009 05:57

I think the phone calls do it unambiguously. The yamaha engine is next.
I am running the numbers through the web now.

James B · Post by **James B** » 07 Jan 2009 06:02

The e-mail ID registered from Lahore based IP address and from the same IP Zarrar Shah also opened his other e-mail account.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 07 Jan 2009 06:57

Still stuck?
So what?
Next?

I say

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 07 Jan 2009 07:14

John Snow wrote:Still stuck?
So what?
Next?

I say

Lubricant needed.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 07 Jan 2009 08:28

The"articles of evidence" don't do a whole lot, except for the GPS units and the cellphones which may be traceable, and of course the Western Union and other phone calls. Milk Powder and Mountain Dew made in Pakistan? Surely those could be faked by anyone if they can buy those in grocery stores, what do those prove? What if the wallets they were carrying were Made In China - would that make them Chinese?

While the investigators have certainly done a lot, I tend to agree with NRao that the presentation of this much-ballyhooed "Dossier" is a middle-school level amateurish job. Does not heighten confidence in the GOI at all.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 Jan 2009 08:42

Looks like the dossier is given just for name sake, since nobody expects TSP to acknowledge. Why spend effort and time for something that's going to be definitely trashed? Middle-school level amateurish job is too much for these bas*****

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 07 Jan 2009 08:48

Well... in all fairness, it is a heck of a lot more substantive than Tony Bliar's "Dossieh"which he waved as he made his stupid pompous speech blaming all of Pakistan's terrorism on Afghanistan. And that was enough for Dubya to destroy Afghanistan.

So this dosa-ear should be enough justification to turn TSP into one big glass parking lot.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 07 Jan 2009 08:58

In a court of law you will present all the circumstantial evidence to support your hypothesis. Just because something can be faked does not mean it is not supportive evidence.

Even if Mohd. or Jesus have a second coming and testify, the TSP will continue to say that there is no credible evidence. Indians will have to prove that Mohd/Jesus are TSP citizens in the first place; they better not confess in Hindi. TSP will then demand DNA evidence to match with their parents which will of course not match since parents have been swapped with much younger people.

samuel · Post by **samuel** » 07 Jan 2009 09:04

I am not sure what we expect the dossier to look like. It looks like what it does because that is what they found. Could they have put more pretty pictures, may be, but there is information there that points the finger to Pakistan, exactly as claimed.

I am not sure what the objective of the dossier is. If this were us looking at it to decide whether or not these guys were involved, well we were convinced a long time back.

If we really were going to start hacking pak, we should've said nothing until whatever investigation we needed to do was done, overtly or covertly. We would say nothing until our preparations were complete, in secrecy is desirable. We would then announce what we concluded, and act when the period for response expired.

This whole tamasha is to avoid getting into a military option because there is little chance of covert action. If this dossier is a public joke, it serves no purpose to weaken our own case in this way. If it was a sincere attempt, who are we to blame but ourselves for being naive dumbasses.

The whole tamasha is a ridiculous attempt at "internationalizing" the issue. The hope now is to get as much international pressure to bear upon pakistan, which means more people from US fly to Pak to look busy, till it all fades in some other news cycle.

If we were getting ready to act, we'd have heard something by now. Ideally, we'd be in it covertly now.

The evidence is no joke, what we are doing with it is.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 Jan 2009 09:06

A question to gurus.

When PM holds discussion with Chief of Staffs, can they recommend no military option on the basis of national interest? Or is it that they are required to have the military option ready at any time - of course taking into account the time for preparation?

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 Jan 2009 09:17

Also, when it comes to covert action, what are all the possibilities? Baluchistan is one I can think of. Can anybody throw some light if there are any other options available?

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Jan 2009 09:21

It seems there are two dossiers floating around.

One "bigger" dossier was shared ith all countries who lost their citizens in the attacks and the "abridged" one with the Pakis and rest of the nations.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 07 Jan 2009 09:22

The bigger dossier has details on names, badge#s, rank etc. of ISI and TSPA men involved in training.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Jan 2009 09:39

Sagarika ghose got chewed out by a guest on CNN yesterday night for saying: "Since pak is not accepting our dossier, isnt it
time to swallow our ego and go for a joint investigation, wouldnt you say that because war is not an option?"

the guest (bless him) rudely spoke to her and made her back down.

the ddm anchors are always willing to swallow certain parts of
the paki/arabic anatomy on demand.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jan 2009 09:49

samuel wrote: The whole tamasha is a ridiculous attempt at "internationalizing" the issue. The hope now is to get as much international pressure to bear upon pakistan, which means more people from US fly to Pak to look busy, till it all fades in some other news cycle.
.

I don't disagree with this take

But putting 2 and 2 together we find that we are not acting because we are unable to act.

Clearly there are no satisfactory military options. BRF was among the entities that recognized that:
a) Conventional wisdom calls for a 2 or 3:1 numerical superiority over an adversary for victory
b) India has never allowed Pakiatan to achieve that superiority denying Pakistan military victory
c) However India has itself not built up its military to be in a powerful enough position to defeat Pakistan comprehensively and still face a Chinese attack on Arunachal Pradesh.

India does not enjoy a 2 or 3:1 superiority over Pakistan]

India cannot defeat Pakistan comprehensively in a military conflict.

Indian and Pakistanis are similar and the analogy used by someone was perfect - two tired swimmers holding on to each other

While we are in the blame game, let us see who is to blame for not building up the Indian military to get into a position of having a minimum 2:1 superiority over Pakistan? If this has to be done we need

1) recognition of Pakistan as a dangerous and implacable enemy supported by China and the US
2) Consistent political will to do that across governments
3) Reduction of delays caused by one party accusing another of corruption
4) Plenty of money
5) A lot more time

Our bumbling dhotis in parliament are unlikely to have the gyan required for this to happen. So we better swallow our pride and whine.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 07 Jan 2009 10:12

Shiv garu said

we are unable to act.

The way GOI is going about. I say

We are INCAPABLE of acting.

( I have gone back to 2006 to all print magzines Out look, India today That SHQ did not throw away.)

The same mantra that we are not going to win a open war, we cant act covert or rapid reaction punitive strikes, because "they wont solve the problem,", "Terrorism will still continue" and finally we have to live with this.

SOme idiot of a blogger who thinks who knows the mind of GOI and issued diktat to TSP govt Send Falafal, this not a request! now suggest we open a dialogue with LeT.

This is what GOI is made of. Super GUBO than Mushy as we make our own KYjelly.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 07 Jan 2009 10:26

Singha wrote:Sagarika ghose got chewed out by a guest on CNN yesterday night for saying: "Since pak is not accepting our dossier, isnt it
time to swallow our ego and go for a joint investigation, wouldnt you say that because war is not an option?"

the guest (bless him) rudely spoke to her and made her back down.

the ddm anchors are always willing to swallow certain parts of
the paki/arabic anatomy on demand.

it seems there is spring attached in her bum as she jumps a lot in her seat and with each word she speaks as if it is her last breath.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 07 Jan 2009 10:29

shiv wrote: India does not enjoy a 2 or 3:1 superiority over Pakistan]

India cannot defeat Pakistan comprehensively in a military conflict.

Indian and Pakistanis are similar and the analogy used by someone was perfect - two tired swimmers holding on to each other

While we are in the blame game, let us see who is to blame for not building up the Indian military to get into a position of having a minimum 2:1 superiority over Pakistan? If this has to be done we need

1) recognition of Pakistan as a dangerous and implacable enemy supported by China and the US
2) Consistent political will to do that across governments
3) Reduction of delays caused by one party accusing another of corruption
4) Plenty of money
5) A lot more time

Our bumbling dhotis in parliament are unlikely to have the gyan required for this to happen. So we better swallow our pride and whine.

well said shivji!

So basically... we are in a "Deer Caught in Headlights" situation or put another way... Dog with its tail between its legs.

If ever WW3 break out we would go the way the Poland went in WW2. Our Dhothis would work for the new set of invaders instead of working for D-Company or Rajmata as they do now.

Maybe we can put up an foreign invasion calendar which predicts the date when the real powers of the world :China/Russia and the US and our Neighbor would invade us. Maybe we can have Alert colors like:

Green Dhoti State-- Things are ok for the next 200 years(average life of a power)
Sky Blue Dhoti State-- There might be an invasion in the next 10 - 20 years
Yellow Dhoti State-- Invasion in 5 years
RED STATE-- Invaders maybe in the backyard looking to rape your sister and mom. and there are no dhotis because the Bumbling Dhotis have sold off their moms and sisters to the invaders and are now manya servants of the invaders desperately trying to get a part of the loot.

My prediction is that we are somewhere between the Yello Dhothi State and RED ALERT STATE

I am wondering.. was India ever a "free" nation? was it ever a Power? The only time I did see it having a bit of Balls is during Indira Gandhis' regime. She prolly had more balls the rest of the mediocre the dhotiwalla ch**ias that came after her combined.

.

US and India are corrupt... however the difference is that even the most corrupt prick in the US would act in national interest. Our Dhotiwallas would be the first to sell Indians as slaves at the first sign of invasion.....

I am signing off for now.. i guess i have an ulcer now

I have to thank MMS, PC, Rajmata circus for that!

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 07 Jan 2009 10:43

^^ who said dhotis dont ve power.u people r underestimating the dhoti power.let me give u some fine example from history.
1.gandhi wore dhoti so he won with british.
2.sardar patel wore dhoti so he gave u present india.
3.nehru didnt wear dhoti so he did blunder in kashmir by taking it to unsc and lost face in 1962 against china.
4.lal bahadur shastri wore dhoti so he won us 1965.
5.indira gandhi wore dhoti so she won us 1971.
6.Rajiv ghandhi didnt wore dhoti so he lost face in srilanaka with ipkf.
7.PVNR wore dhoti so he bought india out of crunch.
8.vajpayee's dhoti successes r partial as he wore it occasionally.

so u people see how many dhoti wearing pms of india hanged pak with there dhotis only and those who didnt wear dhoti were hanged by pak with their pajama nada(string)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jan 2009 10:52

I think the whining has to stop or else it will lead to free fall.

India can take care of TSP however it has to take some escalatory preventive steps vis a vis PRc and the USA.

The whole rhona dhona and whimpering is to make the US do what it said it would do. If it doesnt happen then there are other steps. And the US knows it.

I like the dossier it is more factful then Colin Powell's rag he waved in UN.

Should be proud of how much they unravelled so quickly. The police brains are still working. Its the preventive mode that MKN has killed.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jan 2009 11:17

ramana wrote:I think the whining has to stop or else it will lead to free fall.
.

Qualified disagreement on this point.

We do need some major changes of attitude regarding Pakistan to occur among the people who are elected to govern India.

We on BRF said this after Kargil

We said it again after IC 814

We said it yet again after the Parliament attack

We said it after Kaluchak

We repeated all that time and again when we were dissecting Pakistan on here and figuring out what it was doing. I owe my own e-book to BRF and That book took 3 years of research, 2 years of writing and went online in march 2007

What the hell were Indian governments thinking about Pakistan all these years. We have a headless and rudderless government when it comes to strategy and foreign affairs. And they are totally blind nincompoops when it comes to Pakistan. A corrupt bunch of self serving miniters who wee skimming the country while it was in its economic boom, not giving a thought to those who want that boom to go bust.

Given the history of phenomenal governmental idiocy in india what is different this time? We have no guarantee whatsoever that the pain of Mumbai II will last more than another 2 months.
Continuous and relentless whining is essential.

samuel · Post by **samuel** » 07 Jan 2009 11:18

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/world ... nted=print
January 7, 2009
Dossier Gives Details of Mumbai Attacks

By SOMINI SENGUPTA
NEW DELHI — The exchanges are chilling.

“The hostages are of use only as long as you do not come under fire,” a supervisor instructed gunmen by phone during the Mumbai attacks in November. He added: “If you are still threatened, then don’t saddle yourself with the burden of the hostages. Immediately kill them.”

A gunman replied, “Yes, we shall do accordingly, God willing.”

These are some of the grim details of the Mumbai attacks compiled by the Indian authorities and officially shared with the Pakistani government on Monday.

The compilation seems intended to achieve at least two objectives for India: demonstrate that the attackers were sent from Pakistan, and rally international support for India’s efforts to press Pakistan on its handling of terrorism suspects.

To that end, the dossier, a copy of which was shown to The New York Times, includes previously undisclosed transcripts of telephone conversations, intercepted by Indian authorities, that the 10 gunmen had during their killing spree. They left 163 dead, all the while receiving instructions and pep talks from their handlers across the border.

The dossier also includes photographs of materials found on the fishing trawler the gunmen took to Mumbai: a bottle of Mountain Dew soda packaged in Karachi, pistols bearing the markings of a gun manufacturer in Peshawar, Pakistani-made items like a matchbox, detergent powder and shaving cream.

Beyond that, the dossier chronicles India’s efforts in recent years to persuade Pakistan to investigate suspects involved in terrorist attacks in India and to close terrorist training camps inside Pakistani territory. In the final pages, India demands that Pakistan hand over “conspirators” to face trial in India and comply with its promise to stop terrorist groups from functioning inside its territory.

The dossier was shown this week to diplomats from friendly nations; one described it as “comprehensive,” another as “convincing.”

Although the dossier takes pains not to blame current or former officials in Pakistan’s army or spy agency, Indian officials have consistently hinted at their complicity, at least in training the commando-style fighters who carried out the attack.

On Tuesday, the Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh, upped the ante, but stopped short of naming any specific entities or individuals. “There is enough evidence to show that, given the sophistication and military precision of the attack, it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan,” he said.

Pakistan on Tuesday rejected the Indian allegation. “Scoring points like this will only move us further away from focusing on the very real and present danger of regional and global terrorism,” Sherry Rehman, Pakistan’s information minister, said in a statement, according to Reuters. “It is our firm resolve to ensure that nonstate actors do not use Pakistani soil to launch terrorist attacks anywhere in the world.”

Pakistan has said it is examining the information sent by India.

The dossier narrates a journey of zeal, foibles and careful planning, one whose blow-by-blow news coverage was followed by handlers, believed to be in Pakistan, and used to caution the gunmen about the movement of Indian security forces and to motivate them to keep fighting.

“Everything is being recorded by the media. Inflict the maximum damage. Keep fighting. Don’t be taken alive,” a caller said to a gunman in the Oberoi Hotel in the early hours of the three-day rampage.

“Throw one or two grenades at the Navy and police teams, which are outside,” came one instruction to the gunmen inside the Taj Mahal hotel.

“Keep two magazines and three grenades aside and expend the rest of your ammunition,” went another set of instructions to the attackers inside Nariman House, which housed an Orthodox Jewish center.

At the Taj Mahal, the attackers were asked by their counselors whether they had set the hotel on fire; one attacker said he was preparing a mattress for that purpose. At the Oberoi, an attacker asked whether to spare women (“Kill them,” came the terse reply) and Muslims (he was told to release them and kill the rest). At Nariman House, they were told that India’s standing with a major ally, Israel, might be damaged.

“If the hostages are killed, it will spoil relations between India and Israel,” one handler said.

According to the investigation into the attack, the 10 gunmen boarded a small boat in Karachi at 8 a.m. on Nov. 22, sailed a short distance before boarding a bigger carrier believed to be owned by an important operative of a banned Pakistan-based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Taiba. The next day, the 10 men took over an Indian fishing trawler, killed four crew members, and sailed 550 nautical miles along the Arabian Sea.

Each man carried a weapons pack: a Kalashnikov, a 9-millimeter pistol, ammunition, hand grenades and a bomb containing a military-grade explosive, steel ball bearings and a timer with instructions inscribed in Urdu.

By 4 p.m. on Nov. 26, the trawler approached the shores of Mumbai. The leader of the crew, identified by Indian investigators as Ismail Khan, 25, from a Pakistani town in the Northwest-Frontier Province, contacted his handlers. When darkness set in, the men killed the trawler’s captain and boarded a dinghy, with an engine that investigators said bore marks from a Lahore-based importing company.

They reached Mumbai about 8:30 p.m., and in five teams of two, set upon their targets: Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, known as Victoria Terminus, the city’s busiest railway station; a tourist haunt called the Leopold Cafe; the Jewish center in Nariman House; and the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels.

They made one mistake, investigators said. They left behind Mr. Khan’s satellite phone; it was recovered by Indian investigators and its photograph was included in the dossier. A GPS device was also recovered from the trawler.

The last telephone transcript in the dossier was at 10:26 p.m. on Nov. 27, between a gunman inside Nariman House and his interlocutor. “Brother you have to fight,” the caller said. “This is a matter of the prestige of Islam.”

By the morning of Nov. 29, Indian forces had killed nine of the fighters.

The sole survivor, Muhammad Ajmal Kasab, is in the custody of the Mumbai police. His interrogation turned up one of the most frightening details: he was part of a cadre of 32 would-be suicide bombers, later joined by three more men. Ten went to Mumbai. Six went to Indian-administered Kashmir, Mr. Kasab told his interrogators.

The dossier says nothing about what happened to the remaining trainees.

Richard A. Oppel Jr. contributed reporting from Islamabad, Pakistan.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 07 Jan 2009 11:27

Should be proud of how much they unravelled so quickly

I have not finished the dossier, but it hints at amazing Indian Intel capabilities.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jan 2009 11:30

India Pakistan is not a two person zero sum game. TSP has backers for whom TSP is the cats paw. Until India understands that and works to negate the backers advantages as Mrs Gandhi did in 1971 more such pin pricks will take place. the fury over Mumbai irregular commando attack is GOI could and should have taken steps for risk reduction which they didnt take as they were chasing conjured up saffron mirages.

I know Karakar is dead but as ATS head he was in the loop about the canceled Sept raid by these very same irregular commandos. however he was directed by his minsters to chase those saffron ghosts and waste his energies.

sanjaykumar, I agree. And if we take a pause from whining all of us can see the good job that was done.

Amit Singh · Post by **Amit Singh** » 07 Jan 2009 11:35

What is TSP?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jan 2009 11:39

TSP= Terrorist State of Pakistan.
interchangeable with
IROT = Islamic Republic of Terroristan

Amit Singh · Post by **Amit Singh** » 07 Jan 2009 11:41

Thanks, Can you point me to the thread where this analysis was done that we cannot comprehensively beat tsp? I thought we were going head to head with China except the military headcount where those chinks are more.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 07 Jan 2009 11:57

Amit Singh wrote:Thanks, Can you point me to the thread where this analysis was done that we cannot comprehensively beat tsp? I thought we were going head to head with China except the military headcount where those chinks are more.

Check this

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 46&start=0

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 07 Jan 2009 18:07

Thanks, Can you point me to the thread where this analysis was done that we cannot comprehensively beat tsp? I thought we were going head to head with China except the military headcount where those chinks are more.

Ah! Good question. The truth is that by the same token,
India cannot defeat the Maldives or Seychelles comprehensively.

This has very little to do with Force Projection, Mobility, C^3, Doctrine or Weapon System Modernization. It has everything to do with NATIONAL WILL and LEADERSHIP.

Let us compare India's position with respect to Pakistan today, with that in 1970:

Air Force: Pakistan had technical superiority, and numerically they were only slightly lower than India.
Navy: India had one small aircraft carrier which was overdue for consignment to a museum, and on that, there were some 20 planes that had been dusted off from some other Museum. In fact I have heard that the crashed Mystere fuselage outside the Structures Lab at the IIT was suddenly excavated, hosed off, and sent to Vishakapatnam to be carried on board the Vikrant, but was then brought back to its Final Resting Place after the war.

Pakistan has the PNS Ghazi, which to all intents and purposes was superior to the American Trident Class submarines because of the superior TFTA Crew operating it.

Army: Pakistan's Army, full of brave MArtial Pathans and Pakjabis, had already got practice firing their guns (and their rifles, less frequently) at East Pakistani women and children, and they had achieved over 300,000 "kills". India's SDRE-filled armies were trembling with terror every time the name "pakistan" was mentioned. In fact some Indian Army officers have been quoted recently as saying that in the IA, they never say the NAME of the "enemy" country. This is because they don't want to accidentally say "Pakistan" and cause all sorts of accidents from short dark rice-eating yindoo soldiers screaming and running away.

TODAY:

Today Pakistan has 6.2375 remaining F-16s, when you count up all the parts and paint lying in various garbage heaps.
It has no nuclear weapons. Its missiles have no guidance systems since the Chinese took those away in 2002 to keep someone from firing them at China or Israel. The famed Pakistani Fighter Plane only crashes once per plane. This happens only once in every 5 takeoffs on average, but crashed planes are never used for another takeoff, so the quality remains high.

The Pakistan Navy has 4 French-built submarines, impressively stationed on concrete blocks in Karachi Submarine Asylum since the French engineers were burnt to death when their bus was inflated by Pakis.

Pakistan Navy also has 17 other submerged warships stationed under Karachi harbor since December 1971, and one submarine (PNS Ghazi) permanently stationed on the sea-floor outside Vishakapatnam.

Since 1984 Pakistanis are sitting at the base of the Siachen glacier looking up at the Indians looking down on them through gunsights. Each Pakistani tent there has a big set of concentric circles painted on it.

But.... there is ONE BIG DIFFERENCE.

In 1970 India was ruled by Indira Gandhi, who believed in India, and some 500 million of the 700 million population of the time believed in her and were willing to die if necessary, to stop the Pakistani atrocities in East Pakistan.

In 2008 India is ruled by Sonia Gandhi who looks sort-of like Indira Gandhi if you are standing in a crowd of 200,000 some 1 kilometer from the bullet-proof enclosure where SG stands, because the ruling party can't find any leaders. Plus some assorted financial managers, chauffeurs etc. And the increase in the Indian population from 700 million to 1100 million has not increased the number of people who believe in India.

Hence today India has no hope of Comprehensively Defeating Fiji, much less a Regional SuperPower like Mauritius.

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 07 Jan 2009 18:15

Ramana,
How about
ROTI = Republic of Terrorist Islamist

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Jan 2009 18:41

Jan 7, 2009 :: India Says All Options Open to Dismantle Terror Groups

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 07 Jan 2009 18:55

tripathi wrote:^^ who said dhotis dont ve power.u people r underestimating the dhoti power.let me give u some fine example from history.
1.gandhi wore dhoti so he won with british.
2.sardar patel wore dhoti so he gave u present india.
3.nehru didnt wear dhoti so he did blunder in kashmir by taking it to unsc and lost face in 1962 against china.
4.lal bahadur shastri wore dhoti so he won us 1965.
5.indira gandhi wore dhoti so she won us 1971.
6.Rajiv ghandhi didnt wore dhoti so he lost face in srilanaka with ipkf.
7.PVNR wore dhoti so he bought india out of crunch.
8.vajpayee's dhoti successes r partial as he wore it occasionally.

so u people see how many dhoti wearing pms of india hanged pak with there dhotis only and those who didnt wear dhoti were hanged by pak with their pajama nada(string)

Incidentaly, our Home minister PC, wears a Dothi too !

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 07 Jan 2009 19:05

Ajmal Kasab belongs to Pakistan: Official sources

ISLAMABAD: Initial investigations have proved that Ajmal Kasab, allegedly the top suspect in Mumbai attacks, hailed from Pakistan, official sources said Wednesday.

The sources further said that Pakistan will not extend legal aid to Ajmal Kasab despite his request for the same.

It may be remembered that a report of Geo News earlier had already indicated that Ajmal Kasab belonged to Pakistan.

However, there is no record of Ajmal Kasab in the database of NADRA.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 07 Jan 2009 19:08

Piglet belongs to Pakistan: Official sources

ISLAMABAD: Initial investigations have proved that Ajmal Kasab, allegedly the top suspect in Mumbai attacks, hailed from Pakistan, official sources said Wednesday.

The sources further said that Pakistan will not extend legal aid to Ajmal Kasab despite his request for the same.

It may be remembered that a report of Geo News earlier had already indicated that Ajmal Kasab belonged to Pakistan.

However, there is no record of Ajmal Kasab in the database of NADRA.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Jan 2009 19:13

kasthuri wrote:When PM holds discussion with Chief of Staffs, can they recommend no military option on the basis of national interest? Or is it that they are required to have the military option ready at any time - of course taking into account the time for preparation?

Kasthuri, remember what FM Manekshaw told IG in 1971 ?

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 07 Jan 2009 19:15

Has the dossier appeared on the web? If so kindly forward me a link Please.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 07 Jan 2009 19:16

Has the dossier appeared on the web? If so kindly forward me a link Please.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 Jan 2009 19:19

SSridhar wrote:How is Pakistan going to respond now ?

It is ridiculing Indian dossier. It says that whatever India has given cannot stand in a court of law. When that comes from a country where people fear the 'agencies' or people have simply 'disappeared' or where all laws have been violated to hand over citizens and other momin to kufr Crusaders, it should become obvious even to those who are pea-brained that TSP has absolutely no intention of acting against terrorism. If they do, it will strike at the very foundations of that State. It is putting on a show that it is a constitutionally governed country where laws are sacrosanct and its law enforcing agencies and courts of law are paragon of virtue. So, it will do its 'own investigation' now and claim it has some proof of terrorist activities on its {night}soil but nothing really linking that to Mumbai carnage. It will dramatically 'capture' Masood Azhar and some 'top' AQ leader to keep US sufficiently interested. All its attempts, from now on, would be to satisfy the US (and China) minimally always promising more wonderful things in the immediate future, especially if India stops threatening. It will kill some ETIM Uighur terrorists or may even 'rescue' that Chinese engineer who is still in TTP's hands by cutting a deal with it. It will keep taunting, provoking and rubbishing India in the meanwhile expecting it to display the same impotent behaviour it has shown vis-a-vis aggression.

What India has done so far sets the base to justify future actions. Mrs IG talked to World leaders and even went to the US before the 1971 action. She gathered enough world opinion though the US was not particularly swayed by it due to Cold War considerations. We may have a more amenable US today but it is not that reliable as the USSR of 1971. In fact, the US is not sharing India's perception that the ISI is involved in the Mumbai carnage. The US does not want India to go to war and it will use all options at its disposal to do that. TSP knows that and is emboldened by the US attitude. Time should come pretty soon, I hope, when India goes ahead and does what it has to do without worrying about US sensitivities.

Seriously, doesn't it seem a straight-forward logic to the US that their campaign will be in jeopardy as India will go for a strike if something like this happens next time? Unless the US has some other agenda than GWOT, their position should be much more serious.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 Jan 2009 19:21

SSridhar wrote:How is Pakistan going to respond now ?

It is ridiculing Indian dossier. It says that whatever India has given cannot stand in a court of law. When that comes from a country where people fear the 'agencies' or people have simply 'disappeared' or where all laws have been violated to hand over citizens and other momin to kufr Crusaders, it should become obvious even to those who are pea-brained that TSP has absolutely no intention of acting against terrorism. If they do, it will strike at the very foundations of that State. It is putting on a show that it is a constitutionally governed country where laws are sacrosanct and its law enforcing agencies and courts of law are paragon of virtue. So, it will do its 'own investigation' now and claim it has some proof of terrorist activities on its {night}soil but nothing really linking that to Mumbai carnage. It will dramatically 'capture' Masood Azhar and some 'top' AQ leader to keep US sufficiently interested. All its attempts, from now on, would be to satisfy the US (and China) minimally always promising more wonderful things in the immediate future, especially if India stops threatening. It will kill some ETIM Uighur terrorists or may even 'rescue' that Chinese engineer who is still in TTP's hands by cutting a deal with it. It will keep taunting, provoking and rubbishing India in the meanwhile expecting it to display the same impotent behaviour it has shown vis-a-vis aggression.

What India has done so far sets the base to justify future actions. Mrs IG talked to World leaders and even went to the US before the 1971 action. She gathered enough world opinion though the US was not particularly swayed by it due to Cold War considerations. We may have a more amenable US today but it is not that reliable as the USSR of 1971. In fact, the US is not sharing India's perception that the ISI is involved in the Mumbai carnage. The US does not want India to go to war and it will use all options at its disposal to do that. TSP knows that and is emboldened by the US attitude. Time should come pretty soon, I hope, when India goes ahead and does what it has to do without worrying about US sensitivities.

Seriously, doesn't it seem a straight-forward logic to the US that their campaign will be in jeopardy as India will go for a strike if something like this happens next time? Unless the US has some other agenda than GWOT, their position should be much more serious.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 07 Jan 2009 19:22

Indian government should act out of nation's interest, not to seek votes.

Christopher Hitchins thinks he knows what Israel is up to. Israeli politicians are bombing for votes:

Until last week, Benjamin Netanyahu was strongly favored to come back as the man whose hard line against territorial concessions had been vindicated by the use of long-evacuated Gaza as a launching pad for random missile attacks. It now seems unlikely that he can easily outbid the current ruling coalition, at least from the hawkish right. (Remember that all the nonsense of the so-called "Al-Aqsa intifada," which wasted so much time and life in the last decades, was first instigated by an electoral rivalry between Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon, in which the latter showed himself more hard-line than the former by waddling militantly across the Temple Mount in the company of an armed band. For such vanities do children end up screaming in the streets over the mangled bodies of their parents—and vice, if I may so phrase it, versa.)

via CIP

If I remember correctly, {Sorry that is just plain OT and needless. Hitchens is plain Communist propaganda. A long time ago he used to write something with some ground realities captured, but now it's sheer armchair ranting} (Sorry if I'm opening old wounds.)

While the old elephant may seem slow and ponderous and less scintillating than the Israeli bee, do not be seduced by that buzz. Make India a better elephant.