Indian Naval Discussion

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 18 Sep 2009 04:37

akash wrote: Pak navy is all set to order 3 u214 subs.

Akash, do you have a reference? From last update, there was plenty of resistence within German administration towards arming Pakistan with 214s.

--Edited Later

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Sep 2009 07:28

Kakarat wrote:Project 15A Destroyer INS Kochi To Be Launched This Week

The "Official" MoD press release of the launch of the Kochi.

The next one to be called Kohima?. That's the only state capital with a "K" I can think of:

Press Information Bureau
Government of India

Wednesday, September 16, 2009

Ministry of Defence

PROJECT 15-A DESTROYER, INS KOCHI TO BE LAUNCHED ON 18 SEP 2009

17:22 IST

The second of the three Project 15-A stealth destroyers will be launched on 18 Sep 09 by Mrs Madhulika Verma, wife of Admiral Nirmal Verma, Chief of the Naval Staff. The 6500 ton ship, to be named INS Kochi, is being built by Mazagon Docks Ltd in Mumbai. Designed indigenously by the Directorate of Naval Design, these are a follow-on of the existing Delhi Class destroyers – INS Delhi, INS Mysore and INS Mumbai.

The ship has advanced stealth features, which make it less vulnerable to detection by enemy radar and will be fitted with state-of-the-art weapon systems which include the supersonic BrahMos surface-to-surface missile, the LRSAM Long Range Surface-to-Air Missiles and the MFStar multi-function radar system providing accurate data on surface and air targets. In addition, the ship’s close-range defence capability will be boosted by four AK-630 rapid-fire guns and a Medium Range gun. The ships will also be fitted with indigenously developed twin-tube torpedo launchers and anti-submarine rocket launchers, the NPOL developed Humsa-NG hull-mounted sonar, and two multi-role helicopters adding punch to the ship’s anti-submarine capability. The maximum speed of the ship is above 30 Knots.

The destroyer will be launched using the pontoon-assisted launch technique, to be employed for the first time in the history of Indigenous warship building. This technique helps in overcoming slipway/ draft constraints and permits launching of heavier vessels.

PIB

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Sep 2009 09:23

Kochi/Cochin is not the capital of Kerala.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 18 Sep 2009 10:07

INS kohima would be nice.

Ajit.C · Post by **Ajit.C** » 18 Sep 2009 11:58

Neither was Mysore.

Kochi is good selection apt for its one of the Main naval hubs and long overdue for a ship in its name.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 18 Sep 2009 13:10

John wrote: Barak-8 is active guided uses MF-STAR only for mid course guidance and target detection. MF-STAR will not be needed to provide illumination to guide the missile in terminal phase. So it should make things simpler integrating them.

The missile is equipped with a two-way datalink, supporting mid-course updating and terminal updating and validation.

So, no trminal illumination, but terminal update and validation nevertheless

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 18 Sep 2009 13:12

Ajit.C wrote:Neither was Mysore.

Kochi is good selection apt for its one of the Main naval hubs and long overdue for a ship in its name.

How about INS Vizag then?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 18 Sep 2009 13:17

vavinash wrote:INS kohima would be nice.

I believe it would be INS Kalapakkam.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 18 Sep 2009 13:27

And i believe we are going to see one of the drones out armed with couple of hellphyres

manish · Post by **manish** » 18 Sep 2009 17:29

Suraj wrote:Kochi/Cochin is not the capital of Kerala.

Ajit.C wrote:Neither was Mysore.

Kochi is good selection apt for its one of the Main naval hubs and long overdue for a ship in its name.

Suraj, weren't both INS Delhi and INS Mysore named after historic IN ships with the same name? I thought it was a case of the highly regarded names coming back to grace flagships of the fleet.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 18 Sep 2009 17:50

Time ripe for indigenous warships: Naval Chief

Verma said, "Fluctuating funding in the past has compelled the Navy to resort to (warship) building in abroad, but now there is an urgent need to emulate worldwide trends in warship building (in the country)."

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Sep 2009 17:51

manish, you are correct. but since IN is expanding new names would be required. mumbai was new AFAIK or at least no major ship with that name before the current one.
the kolkata class will be all new I guess.

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Sep 2009 19:39

Suraj wrote:Kochi/Cochin is not the capital of Kerala.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Sep 2009 20:07

INS Kochi Launched

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Sep 2009 20:12

INS Kochi launched VIDEO

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 18 Sep 2009 20:59

are there any current pics of INS Kolkata ? ( other than the dockyard ones)

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 18 Sep 2009 22:42

The vessel looks great! Very clean work!

soumik · Post by **soumik** » 18 Sep 2009 22:45

well she's a beauty!

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 18 Sep 2009 23:10

Philip wrote:The Hawkeye is of little use to us,as it cannot be operated from any of our carriers,in service or planned,since the aircraft requires catapult launch.Used from land bases,it is shortlegged and is a slow turboprop engined bird.The interesting fact is that this offer is coming only when we have stated that we want to develop our own AEW/AWACS based upon an Embraer airframe,pewrhaps with some Israeli assistance as they are providing the electronics/avionics ,radar etc. for our Phalcon AWACS based upon an IL-76 airframe.We also have a large number of Russian KA-31 helos in service with more being ordered,aboard our warships.What the IN abdnd services really need are at least 3 more AWACS Phalcons,a dozen+ AEW/AWACS based upon the Embraer and a large number of airships equipped with AEW radar.Acquiring more AEW KA-31s enables even smaller warships to possess such capabilities and our growing UAV inventory ,of which the IN was the pioneer in operating such a squadron,adds to providing an all-round AEW capability.

I agree- the E-2D is no use for the IN when it cannot be carried on its AC's. for land-based AWACS, the Phalcons should be adequate and will allow for a lot of savings in time, training, maintenance, etc. as the fleet will be same as that of the IAF. and if the IN is not interested in a Il-76 airframe, it can always go with the G550 based Phalcon that IAI was offering for the IAF's next batch of Phalcons. then the IN could also buy 6-12 of DRDO's EMB-145 based AEWACS and have them optimised for reducing sea-clutter. no sense at all in adding to the types in inventory.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 19 Sep 2009 01:34

manish wrote:Suraj, weren't both INS Delhi and INS Mysore named after historic IN ships with the same name? I thought it was a case of the highly regarded names coming back to grace flagships of the fleet.

I was only referring to another poster's statement about state capitals beginning with 'K'. Kochi is indeed a very good choice in my opinion, not just because it is a pricipal naval hub, but because it is my hometown

John · Post by **John** » 19 Sep 2009 03:06

Gagan wrote:INS Kochi Launched

Looks good Kolkata was less complete when it was launched hopefully this speeds up its induction.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Sep 2009 03:37

Sept 2009 :: Indian Navy Mulls Northrop Advanced Hawkeye

NEW DELHI — Last month’s export authorization from the U.S. government now permits Northrop Grumman to have discussions with the Indian navy on the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye, a platform that provides a highly adaptive form of airborne early warning and control (AEW&C).

A U.S Navy representative, E-2 New Business Manager John Beaulieu, last week made an eight-hour presentation to the Indian navy on the E-2D after a request for more technical clarifications following a request for information last year.

“We’ve been building up to this ... The partnership between the two governments could not be closer,” Beaulieu said. “We are here for preliminary briefings to the Indian navy for E-2D.” India is said to have requirements for six aircraft.

India has been interested in the AEW&C capability for years. “Interoperability is a very, very important aspect,” Beaulieu said.

“It’s fine to have this airborne early warning system up in the air, but if you cannot communicate with not only our own forces, but our allies around the world, it does not do us, or them, much good. If India desires to be interoperable with the U.S. Navy and NATO through datalink systems, this is the platform of choice.”

Northrop has been asked to present a shore-based version, as Indian naval aircraft would require ski-jump compatibility and not the conventional catapult-launched version. “It is a decision the Indian navy has to make,” Beaulieu noted.

Currently, shore-based operations are the way to go as India’s INS Viraat — a Cold War British aircraft carrier — is close to retirement and delivery of the Adm. Gorshkov from Russia has been delayed.

Gorshkov, however, is capable of deploying both vertical-takeoff-or-landing and catapult-launched aircraft. This has led the Indian navy to look at a redesign for its future ships.

As the U.S. Navy’s carrier-based AEW&C, officials have focused on the E-2D’s newly developed AN/APY-9 radar, which works in concert with surface combatants equipped with the Aegis combat system to detect, track and defeat cruise missile threats at extended range.

Former Indian Chief of Naval Staff Sureesh Mehta helped lead the navy in pursuit of more robust overhead surveillance capability.

India already has ordered eight P8-I long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft to replace its aging Tupolev Tu-142M maritime surveillance turboprops.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 19 Sep 2009 04:21

News about shivalik ? Last, what we heard was that the lm2500 turbines were released

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 19 Sep 2009 09:23

whatever be the case , E-2D is not the most advanced version.....apparently E-2E is under an advanced stage of development.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Sep 2009 09:35

someone seems to be having a titanic moment on bow of the ship. the superstructure looks to have incorporated
some stealth aspects from Talwar class. remains to be seen how smooth and integrated the radar and radio masts are. the PLAN seems to cover everything under composite domes (to some extent RN & FN also) while we and Rus leave them exposed.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 19 Sep 2009 20:06

From Kapil

John · Post by **John** » 20 Sep 2009 05:49

Singha wrote:someone seems to be having a titanic moment on bow of the ship. the superstructure looks to have incorporated
some stealth aspects from Talwar class. remains to be seen how smooth and integrated the radar and radio masts are. the PLAN seems to cover everything under composite domes (to some extent RN & FN also) while we and Rus leave them exposed.

Talwar does not have solid mast enclosure both the Steregushchy corvette and Gorshkov frigate incorporate it as does Shivalik class.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Sep 2009 13:08

hopefully a APARish box or EMPARish dome will cap the mainmast - a final break from the Fregat mesh

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Sep 2009 14:23

Franco-Russian naval ties are getting a huge boost with the russian desire to acquire French Mistral amphibious warships.The In also requires several amphibious LHPDs and the Mistral and Spanish multi-purpose amphib flat top,the JUan Carlos,are two types which should suit the IN.The slightly larger Spanish warhsip has an extra deck with extra facilities.Details below.

The Spanish Juan Carlos I amphibious assault ship is similar in concept to the US Wasp class. This LHD is named in honor of Juan Carlos I, the current king of Spain. The new vessel will play in important role in the Spanish Navy. Australia plans to build two ships of the same design, locally known as Canberra class.

The Spanish Juan Carlos I amphibious assault ship is similar in concept to the US Wasp class. This LHD is named in honor of Juan Carlos I, the current king of Spain. The new vessel will play in important role in the Spanish Navy. Australia plans to build two ships of the same design, locally known as Canberra class.

Ship provides accommodation for 900 marines and can carry up to 46 Leopard 2 main battle tanks. It has multi-functional hangar and garage space on two levels. The Juan Carlos can carry four mechanized landing craft (LCM) or one hovercraft (LCAC) in the stern dock. Vessel can also play an important role in disaster relief operations.

The Juan Carlos was specially designed to operate V/STOL aircraft. Vessel has a flight deck of 202 m with a ski-jump bow. It has eight points for AV-8B Harriers, four points for CH-47 Chinook medium helicopters, and one point for V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor transport. Vessel can carry up to 30 aircraft, when used in the aircraft carrier mode. This LHD can substitute the Spanish Principe de Asturias light aircraft carrier.

The Juan Carlos ship is fitted with a single VLS for ESSM or RAM missiles. Other weapons include four 20-mm Oerlikon CIWS.

This assault ship uses new propulsion system. It has two gas turbines and requires no shafts. Similar propulsion is used on the French Mistral class. Ship has a range of 9 000 nautical miles (17 000 km) at 15 knots.

Russia starts talks to buy French warship: minister
(AFP) – 14 hours ago

MOSCOW — Russia said on Saturday it had started talks with France for an unprecedented deal to buy a new helicopter-carrying assault warship from NATO-member France.

"We are carrying out negotiations" for the purchase of the Mistral naval ship, Deputy Defence Minister Vladimir Popovkin told the radio station Echo of Moscow.

The Russian defence ministry had said in late August that it was looking to buy the vessel -- announcement which experts said reflects Kremlin efforts to accelerate military modernisation.

A source close to the matter told the RIA-Novosti news agency on Tuesday that talks were expected to be completed this month.

The Russian government daily Rossiiskaya Gazeta reported last month that the ship, which can carry 16 heavy helicopters, 470 airborne troops and other gear, costs 700 million euros (995 million dollars).

Russia routinely made substantial weapons purchases from suppliers in the West in tsarist and Soviet times prior to World War II, notably during Stalin's modernisation drive in the 1930s.

But the planned deal with France is unprecedented since World War II both in terms of the size of the equipment in question and given Russia's insistence since the war on producing all military hardware for its own use and export.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 4YyLkYswgA

Mistral:

The first of the Mistral amphibious assault ship (LHD) was commissioned in 2006. Two of these ships are in service with the French Navy, named Mistral and Tonnerre. The third ship will be ordered in 2009 and forth is planned. Primary mission for these ships are amphibious landing operations. They also provide command and force projection capability.

The Mistral class vessels are the largest combatants in the French Navy service after the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier. They replaced the Ouragan class LSDs.

The new vessel uses four mechanized landing craft (LCM) or two hovercraft (LCAC) in the stern deck to deliver troops and vehicles ashore. It can carry a full tank battalion with up to 40 Leclerc MBTs, or up to 70 lighter vehicles. Ship provides accommodation for 450 marines, however surge capacity is 900.

The Mistral class LHD has six helicopter landing spots. Up to 16 medium (NH90, Tigre) or 35 light helicopters can be carried and stored in the hangar deck. It is worth mentioning that every helicopter, operated by the French military, can land on these ships. Currently this class can not operate V/STOVL aircraft, as it has got no ski-jump bow associated equipment.

Ships are equipped with 69-bed hospitals, furthermore hangar can also be converted into a modular field hospital. The Mistral class can be deployed as command and control vessels. Command center can host up to 150 personnel.

Vessel is armed with two Simbad launchers for Mistral surface-to-air missiles and two 30-mm Breda-Mauser guns.

The Mistral class uses new propulsion technology, which gives ships significant maneuvering capabilities. It is an all-electric warship. Power is generated by four diesel generators, providing 20.8 MW. These vessels have a range of 10 700 nautical miles (20 000 km) at 14 knots.

http://www.military-today.com/navy/mistral_class.htm

vishnu.nv · Post by **vishnu.nv** » 20 Sep 2009 15:44

Guru's,

By seeing the the way in which American's offering their latest technologies and equipments, there won't be much problem for IN to get the America class amphibious assault ships or San Antonio class of ships.
Which one would be the best for the IN ?
Indian Army's power projection plans discussed in the latest commanders conference call's for deployments on remote war zones. A new dedicated amphibious assault ship greater than 25000 tonnes will be an nice edition to IN.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 023986.cms

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 20 Sep 2009 16:39

vishnu.nv wrote:Guru's,

By seeing the the way in which American's offering their latest technologies and equipments, there won't be much problem for IN to get the America class amphibious assault ships or San Antonio class of ships.
Which one would be the best for the IN ?
Indian Army's power projection plans discussed in the latest commanders conference call's for deployments on remote war zones. A new dedicated amphibious assault ship greater than 25000 tonnes will be an nice edition to IN.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 023986.cms

For once something French is cheaper than American!

The unit cost of Mistral class vessels are around the 1 billion USD mark where as the San Antonio class costs around 1.5 billion USD. Yet, I am skeptical if IN would want to buy it. The Mistral price tag sure seems impressive. It seems to cost as much as our P-15A class destroyers.

ajay_hk · Post by **ajay_hk** » 21 Sep 2009 00:13

X-Post
Navy backs Tejas with Rs 900 cr

Meanwhile, a major shore-based test facility is coming up at INS Hansa, in Goa, which replicates an aircraft carrier deck on ground, complete with arrested recovery and a ski jump for take off. This facility, which is expected to be operational by October 2011, will be used for certifying the Naval LCA before actually flying off an aircraft carrier. This will also be used for pilots’ training and for training maintenance crews

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 Sep 2009 20:23

Jagan wrote:From Kapil

Jagan ............ Typo in the pictures caption. MDL is not in Goa. Any more pictures?

Anyway great picture, Kapil. I do not think there are any full sideon pictures of the Kochi.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 22 Sep 2009 07:58

Made in India INS Shivalik to be inducted in November

Soon, very soon, India will add another lethal punch to its growing ‘‘blue-water’’ warfare capabilities by inducting an indigenously-designed and manufactured ‘‘stealth’’ frigate.

The 5,300-tonne frigate, INS Shivalik, armed with a deadly mix of foreign and indigenous weapon and sensor systems, is currently undergoing ‘‘advanced’’ pre-commissioning sea trials.

Interestingly, apart from Russian Shtil surface-to-air missile systems, Klub anti-ship cruise missiles and other weapons, the multi-role frigate is also armed with the Israeli ‘Barak-I’ anti-missile defence system. Already fitted on 11 frontline warships like aircraft carrier INS Viraat and destroyer INS Mysore, the 10-km range Barak-I can intercept incoming Harpoon and Exocet missiles, launched from platforms like P-3C Orion aircraft and Agosta-90B submarines which Pakistan has acquired from US and France.

‘‘INS Shivalik is the first stealth frigate to be designed and built in India. It’s a matter of great pride for the country. It should be ready to enter service in Navy in November,’’ said director-general of naval design, Rear Admiral M K Badhwar. The Project-17 to construct three stealth frigates — the other two, INS Satpura and INS Sahyadri, will be delivered in 2010-2011 — at a cost of Rs 8,101 crore at Mazagon Docks has, of course, been plagued by delays ever since it was approved by the government in 1997.

But now, with the programme on the verge of completion, the defence ministry has approved Project-17A to construct seven more frigates, with even more stealth features, for around Rs 45,000 crore. Navy initially wanted two of the seven new frigates to be built abroad to avoid time overruns. But MoD shot down the proposal, holding that four will be built at Mazagon Docks in Mumbai and the other three at Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers at Kolkata, said sources.

Navy currently has 34 warships and six submarines on order to ensure its force-levels do not dip below the existing 140 or so warships. The new inductions will help Navy strengthen its role as a ‘‘potent maritime force’’ and ‘‘stabilising influence’’ in the Indian Ocean, capable of ‘‘destruction of enemy’’ and deterrence as well as ‘‘coercive’’ and ‘‘peace’’ diplomacy.

The stealth features incorporated in the Shivalik-class frigates, including inclined surfaces, will considerably reduce their radar cross-section. To reduce the noise signature, the designers have gone in for low-noise propellers, propulsion devices and machinery, as also ‘‘vibration damping’’.

These are exciting days for the Navy !

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 22 Sep 2009 08:33

Technology for bridges: Navy interested, to make warships stronger
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/techn ... er/520021/

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 22 Sep 2009 08:40

The Akula-2 Nerpa induction was also suppose to happen before december , she is now in her third and last leg of sea trial in Sea of Okhotsk and should this be done by November latest.

So by December she should be handed over to IN ,should see IN flag on it by Dec 4th hopefully.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 22 Sep 2009 11:09

vavinash wrote:INS kohima would be nice.

The name INS Tawang should also be used for any future IN Vessel

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 22 Sep 2009 12:10

Technology for bridges: Navy interested, to make warships stronger
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/techn ... er/520021/

I just love Indian Navy. They have taken indigenisation as a religion. I mean they are interested in everything. They find suitable application for everything. Even if the product is in initial stages they would accept it & simultaneously work on it to improve it. This is the kind of commitment Army & Air Force should show.
But we all know when this 5 metre smart bridge finally completes, Indian Army will find something more "appropriate" from Israel or Russia or any other foreign country.

May God Bless Indian Navy & put some sense in Army & Air Force top brass

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 22 Sep 2009 13:12

sunny y wrote:
But we all know when this 5 metre smart bridge finally completes, Indian Army will find something more "appropriate" from Israel or Russia or any other foreign country.

Not Russia, we now want everything from Unkil (of course if unkil decides to give..)

-Nitin

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Sep 2009 16:48

The IN is streets ahead of its two service compatriots in indigenisation,IT warfare and use of UAVs.It has had a succession of far sighted naval chiefs and naval officers from the late 1970s onwards who laid the foundation for a "builders navy",beginning with the Leander class frigate construction.From designing and building upgraded Leanders,which could carry a Sea King ASW helo,to the improved Leanders ,the larger "Godavari" class with the same powerplant,the IN today designs and builds missile craft,OPVs,corvettes,frigates,destroyers and its first carrier class is underway too.The only hiccup that it has suffered was the "lost decade"where no orders were forthcoming from the MOD and it lost the art of building subs after the two U-209s were built at MD.The launch of the Arihant,which has taken several decades to arrive,is a giant step in the nation's indigenisation objective,which with the Scorpene sub programme underway should give the IN a complete portfolio of naval warship and sub building capabilty.

A Further line of conventional subs is required.We need to augment our 4 U-209s and Kilos with at least one type with Brahmos (upgraded Kilos or Amurs),as the Scorpene project is delayed and has had a major cost overrun.The IN needs at least 24+ conventional subs with at least half with AIP ,plus 12 SSBNs and SSGNs (Arihants and Akulas).There are several options,one immediate way is to add to the number of U-209s with acquiring a few more advanced fiuel-cell AIP subs,as the German-Greek deal has failed,leaving Germany with a finsihed sub on its hands to offload,U-214 subs which Pakistan is lusting after and which Germany has had second thoughts of selling given Pak's notorious reputation.India could strike a quick bargain here.Details of the failed Greek order given below.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/09 ... 10349.html

ThyssenKrupp cancels Greek submarine order
09.21.09, 11:59 AM EDT

ATHENS, Sept 21 (Reuters) - German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems said on Monday it was terminating a contract to build four submarines for the Greek navy and would seek arbitration as the country's arrears exceed 520 million euros ($762 million).

'The Greek state has long ceased to honour its contractual obligations,' ThyssenKrupp said on Monday.
Greek defence ministry officials were not available for comment.

ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems acquired the former state run Hellenic Shipyards, which competes with Neorion Shipyards, in 2005.

The orders to build four and overhaul three other submarines ran into trouble after Greece refused to take delivery of the vessel, citing technical shortcomings and design flaws.

Greek Defence Minister Evangelos Meimarakis said in January he would try to renegotiate the contract.

Simmering tensions with neighbouring Turkey have kept Greece's defence budgets high. The 2009 budget foresees 2.2 billion euros in spending on arms purchases.

(Reporting by Harry Papachristou; Editing by Dan Lalor)

($1 = 0.6827 euro) Keywords: THYSSENKRUPP/GREECE