Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

[sum]

I have a feeling that inspite of all the heart burn in BRF on MMS, he may be as Chankiyan as NRao. We must remember that NRao contributions were only slowly understood. When I stand back and look at Pakistan it is burning and MMS is just giving lip service to Brotherhood. The issue is, are we hammering them while being nice!

Can only hope and pray that what you say is correct.

[bart]

But the thought of being at odds with a nations with a large (internet-going, hence fairly wealthy) mentally unstable population is confronting.

Very few of those Internet losers are actually in Pakistan. Most of them are living off welfare in the Anglo-Saxon occupied overseas territories of Pakistan like Bradford, Vancouver etc.

You can see the same on even Cricinfo or other forums.

BTW, check out this photo gallery:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... 101&ref=mf
Most of his audience seem to be wealthy rape brats. Like their equivalents in India, they are less grounded to reality that the normal folks.

[bart]

Interesting! My oh my the things one learns on the Internet! And here I was taught Admiral Horatio Nelson died at Trafalgar, and it was Wellington who defeated Napoleon! Darn those English, can't they get their facts straight?!

Yet another reason why Muslim extremists will be unsuccessful in defeating the West. To defeat one's enemy, it wouldn't hurt to get the facts OF your enemy straight. Hmm, I wonder if Khan thinks the Ottomans were successful at the siege of Vienna? ""

LOL, Waterloo is a grassy area in the middle of Belgium, so I wonder what an Admiral would be doing there.

[AnimeshP]

Interesting! My oh my the things one learns on the Internet! And here I was taught Admiral Horatio Nelson died at Trafalgar, and it was Wellington who defeated Napoleon! Darn those English, can't they get their facts straight?!

Yet another reason why Muslim extremists will be unsuccessful in defeating the West. To defeat one's enemy, it wouldn't hurt to get the facts OF your enemy straight. Hmm, I wonder if Khan thinks the Ottomans were successful at the siege of Vienna? ""

LOL, Waterloo is a grassy area in the middle of Belgium, so I wonder what an Admiral would be doing there.

Maybe that is why Napolean lost ... he couldn't figure out how to sink a ship on land ..

[Pulikeshi]

Aman-ki-Asha is working. So, Sidharth Varadarajan was after all building the ground for this through his participation in NDTV discussion and then his article in The Hindu. Well done GoI.

Not sure what is working - hope you are being sarcastic!

The rough analogy I can think of - War on drugs: Drug dealers see that the potential for increasing heat.
They make a quick pact, look you can't prevent addiction, there will always be demand.
So, let us give you a few kgs in raids, retire a few undesirables....
you go home claiming victory, we continue with our supply - its you who has a demand problem!

GOI's can pursue a passive aggressive stance directly proportional to the "goldfish memory" of the average Indian citizen!

Status-Quo-ki-Asha more like!

[Avinash R]

But the thought of being at odds with a nations with a large (internet-going, hence fairly wealthy) mentally unstable population is confronting.

Very few of those Internet losers are actually in Pakistan. Most of them are living off welfare in the Anglo-Saxon occupied overseas territories of Pakistan like Bradford, Vancouver etc.

You can see the same on even Cricinfo or other forums.

BTW, check out this photo gallery:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... 101&ref=mf
Most of his audience seem to be wealthy rape brats. Like their equivalents in India, they are less grounded to reality that the normal folks.

Wake up Pakistan, looks like zaid hamid watched Wake up Sid too many times

[AnimeshP]

Very few of those Internet losers are actually in Pakistan. Most of them are living off welfare in the Anglo-Saxon occupied overseas territories of Pakistan like Bradford, Vancouver etc.

You can see the same on even Cricinfo or other forums.

BTW, check out this photo gallery:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... 101&ref=mf
Most of his audience seem to be wealthy rape brats. Like their equivalents in India, they are less grounded to reality that the normal folks.

Wake up Pakistan, looks like zaid hamid watched Wake up Sid too many times

I say folks lets give Mr. Zaid Hamid some more reasons to spout YYY conspiracy ... How about we report Sri Hamid's page as inflammatory & racist on FB and get it banned ... If that happens would love to see the next edition of Brasstacks ...
I've already reported the page with following comments

The author of the page is indulging in hate speech against Indians. One sample " ''Inshallah one day you will hear this.........'This is radio pakistan fron New delhi'..." Zaid Hamid"

[CRamS]

I have a feeling that inspite of all the heart burn in BRF on MMS, he may be as Chankiyan as NRao. We must remember that NRao contributions were only slowly understood. When I stand back and look at Pakistan it is burning and MMS is just giving lip service to Brotherhood. The issue is, are we hammering them while being nice!

I am not so sure. Others in the govt like PC who seem conciliatory at the moment might have some Chanakyan objectives, I am not so sure about MMS. He genuinly feels for Pakis IMO, he agrees with the London/Washington view on India TSP. So I don't sense any Chanakyan in him.

[ramana]

GP in Pioneer

LINK

EDITS | Thursday, February 4, 2010 | Email | Print |

Talks will serve little purpose

G Parthasarathy

New Delhi’s India International Centre has a reputation of being a location for quiet dialogue and discussions. Yet, in a widely publicised conference on India-Pakistan relations at the IIC from January 10 to 12, raw emotions got the better of reasoned dialogue. The police had to be called in as people who had been forced to flee their homes in the Kashmir Valley by terrorist organisations, which were allegedly led by some of those participating in the programme, gave vent to their emotions and disrupted proceedings. Sentimentalism in sections of our media about ‘Aman ki Asha’, disregards prevailing realities about public anguish and anger at Pakistan-sponsored terrorism.

India’s Chief of Army Staff General Deepak Kapoor recently revealed that some 700 militants from Pakistan were waiting to infiltrate across the Line of Control in Jammu & Kashmir. General Kapoor added: “The terror infrastructure across the LoC is very much intact and all-out efforts are being made to push inside as many infiltrators as possible.” On January 12, India’s otherwise soft spoken Foreign Secretary, Nirupama Rao, told an audience of American and Indian academics in Delhi: “We have to face hostile forces across our borders with Pakistan.” She added that groups which directed attacks against India, continued to receive the “patronage of powerful forces and institutions in Pakistan.” She asserted, “It is vital this support must stop at once. Any viable process of dialogue with Pakistan is essentially dependent on this requirement, since it is unrealistic to think otherwise.”

While the Foreign Secretary was spelling out the prerequisites for a “viable dialogue process”, talks have continued between the two countries at the highest levels. Over the past two years, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has met Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari twice, at New York and Yekaterinburg, and Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Gilani on three occasions. The Foreign Ministers of India and Pakistan met in Islamabad, New Delhi and New York. While India has continued to engage and talk to Pakistan, a resumption of the composite dialogue process will be counter-productive. Pakistan has used the composite dialogue process to divert attention from its promotion of terrorism within India, by expressing dissatisfaction with India’s approach to issues ranging from Jammu & Kashmir to Siachen, and differences over demarcation of the international boundary in the Sir Creek area.

The composite dialogue process resumed in January 2004, only after then Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf assured then Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee that territory under Pakistan’s control would not be allowed to be used for terrorism against India. Despite this clear linkage between an end to terrorism and the resumption of the composite dialogue process, Pakistan was emboldened to promote terror activities against India by the ill-advised statement of Prime Minister Singh that the composite dialogue process was “irreversible” and would not be affected by acts of terrorism sponsored by Pakistan. At the Havana Non-Aligned Summit in 2006, some others even acted as apologists for Pakistan by suggesting that cross-border terrorism was really the work of ‘non-state actors’.

While our policies should seek to build constituencies for peace within Pakistan, the reality is that policies on India are decided in Pakistan not by the democratically elected rulers in Islamabad but by the military establishment led by General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani in Rawalpindi. The longest meeting that US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had in Pakistan during her latest visit to that country was with General Kayani and ISI Chief Shuja Pasha and not with the country’s elected leaders. General Kayani has long-standing links with terrorist groups like the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba from his days as the Commander of the 12th Infantry Division in Murree over a decade ago. He is recorded to have described Afghan Taliban leader Sirajuddin Haqqani, who masterminded two terrorist attacks on our Embassy in Kabul, as a “strategic asset”.

Thus, little purpose will be served by talking to Pakistan’s civilian leadership on issues of cross-border terrorism, over which they have no control. What is needed is unpublicised backchannel dialogue with Pakistan’s real rulers — its military establishment including the ISI — who should be left in doubt about the consequences of continuing on the path they have chosen.

Union Home Minister P Chidambaram is scheduled to visit Pakistan for a SAARC conference. His visit comes just after an astonishing statement by Mr Gilani, a long time protégé of and apologist for his country’s military establishment, that his Government cannot guarantee that there will not be further terrorist attacks on India, emanating from Pakistani territory. As this would be a violation of the assurances given by General Musharraf on January 6, 2004, which led to the resumption of the composite dialogue process, Mr Chidambaram could remind his hosts of the assurances which constituted the basis for talks.

India has also demanded that Pakistan would have to dismantle its infrastructure of terrorism before the dialogue process can be resumed. What precisely we should tell Pakistan is the minimum we expect Pakistan to do — establish its sincerity. The first step would be for Pakistan to stop living in denial and agree to extradite Dawood Ibrahim, the mastermind of the 1993 Mumbai bombings. As American author Gretchen Peters has noted, Ibrahim has the dubious distinction of being the only person Washington has designated both as a ‘Global Terrorist Supporter’ and a ‘Foreign Narcotics Kingpin’.

Second, Pakistan’s former Railways Minister and former Director-General of ISI, Lt Gen Javed Ashraf Qazi, stated in Pakistan’s Senate on March 10, 2004: “We must not be afraid of admitting that the Jaish-e-Mohammed was involved in the deaths of thousands of Kashmiris, the bombing of the Indian Parliament, in Daniel Pearl’s murder and in attempts on President Pervez Musharraf’s life.” In these circumstances, one can surely demand that Pakistan extradite Jaish-e-Mohammed chief Maulana Masood Azhar, or try him for abetment of murder and terrorism.

Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, the LeT chief, publicly acknowledged in January 2001 that he had organised the attack on the Red Fort in New Delhi. Articles in journals published by him give details of LeT members who have been ‘martyred’ in encounters in Jammu & Kashmir. If, as Pakistan claims, it does not have evidence to nail Hafiz Saeed for the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, he could surely be incarcerated and tried for all that he has admitted publicly over the past decade.

Nice try.

[jrjrao]

Apologies if this was posted earlier. And even more apologies for making you consume this syrup of ipecac. It is from the Wall St. Journal, of all places:

Make the Call to Islamabad, Mr. Singh
By PAUL BECKETT
WSJ link

When it comes to India-Pakistan relations, there seems to be one certainty for 2010: If nothing changes, they will only get worse.

We have been told time and again that another attack on India from Pakistan is inevitable. U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates reiterated the warning on his recent visit to India and Pakistan, saying that al Qaeda and its affiliated groups – read Lashkar-e-Taiba – were determined to spark another Indo-Pak war.

Even as the dire warnings pour in – "You WILL be attacked!" – the governments of both countries have so far chosen to take the path of least courage. That is, they have maintained the same frozen state of sour relations that has existed since India pushed the international community to push Pakistan to acknowledge that the Mumbai attackers sailed from Karachi and to round up some suspects.

The subsequent trial in Pakistan of some of those allegedly involved has been insufficient to satisfy India that the matter is being treated with adequate seriousness to warrant any thaw. Pakistan, meanwhile, insists it is ready to restart stalled talks with India on a wide range of issues but that India should recognize that Pakistan is doing what it can to stop the menace of terrorism.

In other times, this might all be delicate diplomatic posturing (at best) or (more likely) the predictable utterances of two distrustful nations not quite at war but not really at peace. People would yawn and get on with their lives.

But what neither government appears to be dealing with is the fact that they face a stark deadline: the next, apparently imminent, attack on India.

Once that happens, the political paralysis of repetitive rhetoric that persists today will quickly turn to something much more sinister.

Indian officials already have made it known that limiting their response to diplomacy isn't on the table the next time. They also complained after the Mumbai attacks that when it came to calling Pakistan to vent their anger, they didn't even know whom to call.

Because of the current stalemate in relations, they won't be any better prepared the next time, which will only increase the likelihood that the first meaningful correspondence will be a missile fired into a Kashmiri militant camp.

From there, who knows…But whatever happens, the last several months of posturing will prove an ineffective coolant for the fiery tempers that will ignite. In that scenario, it will likely be U.S. officials who are left desperately trying to apply the balm.

There is still time. Time for what the Obama administration calls a reset. Time for politicians on both sides to show that they can put up some meaningful resistance to the inevitability of deteriorating relations, or worse, when the next strikes comes.

Given all that Pakistan is dealing with now, including the weakness of its own administration's position, the greater potential for such political bravery lies with India.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is said to consider peace with Pakistan one of his top two priorities, along with – and related to – sustained economic growth of close to 10%. And he has the stable position, in the absence of any meaningful opposition, to take a risk as long as his own party lines up to back him. (This time, Mr. Prime Minister, perhaps don't mention Baluchistan.)

Certainly, there are those in the government who will resist any overtures to Pakistan because they feel Pakistan can't yet – or ever – be trusted to deal straight. But he likely would have little quarrel from his public.

"The peace constituency in both countries has actually grown despite our problems," said M.J. Akbar, author and journalist, at a discussion last week. Returning relations to the relative openness that existed before the 1965 war "is a realistic objective, a doable project – part of a process that can be foreseeable in real time, in real space."

Kashmir, he added, won't be solved by 2065, let alone 2011. "But what are we going to do in the meantime?"

At the same discussion, Zahid Hussain, Pakistani author and journalist (he is the WSJ's correspondent in Islamabad) added that in Pakistan, too, "there is a growing consensus among liberal and other political parties that they need to have better relations with India – it's still vague but there is a desire for that."

He added, "The general public there also desires peace. There is no room for us to continue in a state of conflict for long."

Recently there have been rumblings in Delhi that the Indian government might be interested in restarting the stalled "composite dialogue" in the next few months.

Here's where Pakistan can play its part: the Indian government wants something – a real trial, a conviction, a series of convictions, senior Lashkar leaders behind bars for a meaningful period of time – that will give it the opening to make the call.

That is something Islamabad's government, however weak, should strive mightily to deliver so that Delhi's call doesn't come too late.

—Paul Beckett is the WSJ's South Asia bureau chief, based in New Delhi.
Write to Paul Beckett at [email protected]

[svinayak]

Apologies if this was posted earlier. And even more apologies for making you consume this syrup of ipecac. It is from the Wall St. Journal, of all places:

Make the Call to Islamabad, Mr. Singh

When the first criminal is transferred to India from Pakistan then the call will be made.

[amdavadi]

I say invite OBL,hamas,islamic brotherhood,taliban,chavez,castro to whitehouse for a couple of beer.Please make a call
POTUS because if nothing changes, it will get worst.the greater potential for such political bravery lies with US as great
sole superpower in the world.

[CRamS]

Apologies if this was posted earlier. And even more apologies for making you consume this syrup of ipecac. It is from the Wall St. Journal, of all places:

Make the Call to Islamabad, Mr. Singh

When the first criminal is transferred to India from Pakistan then the call will be made.

The call has already been made.

But WSJ has spilled out what the western TSP stratgey is, and alluded to by GP. The west wants India to appease TSP, and is urging TSP to do some window dressing so MMS is given some politcal space to follow through on aman ki aasha. Once talks beging, the western TSP strategy is to talk about Kashmir, make demands on India, confuse and bring on all irrelevant issues.

[dnivas]

Apologies if this was posted earlier. And even more apologies for making you consume this syrup of ipecac. It is from the Wall St. Journal, of all places:

Make the Call to Islamabad, Mr. Singh

When the first criminal is transferred to India from Pakistan then the call will be made.

Place to post comments
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1265105 ... 3Dcomments

[MurthyB]

I think before they wet dream about cashmore etc., the real agenda is to start the talks so that there is something to break off when the next attack happens. That is supposed to be the safety valve that the Indian public should be soothed with, and no real action. Just like they give you a gauze to bite into to control the pain as they gouge out your skin without anesthesia, they are concerned that the gauze they had in there has worn off and a new gauze needs to be there: talks that can be broken off.

The call has already been made.

But WSJ has spilled out what the western TSP stratgey is, and alluded to by GP. The west wants India to appease TSP, and is urging TSP to do some window dressing so MMS is given some politcal space to follow through on aman ki aasha. Once talks beging, the western TSP strategy is to talk about Kashmir, make demands on India, confuse and bring on all irrelevant issues.

[putnanja]

Time for talks as PC heads to Pindi

...
Ending the uncertainty over Chidambaram’s visit, External Affairs Minister S M Krishna even indicated here that the home minister might hold a separate bilateral meeting with his Pakistani counterpart Rehman Malik. The three-day SAARC home ministers’ meet will begin on February 26.

“He (Chidambaram) will get a chance to have very useful exchanges with his counterparts and other leaders in Pakistan,” said the external affairs minister. Krishna on Tuesday said that New Delhi had never shut the door for talks with Islamabad.

...
...

“We can consider moving ahead (towards resumption of composite dialogue) only if he (Chidambaram) comes back satisfied that the Pakistani government is really addressing our concerns,” said a highly placed source. But these sources also gave very strong indications that he will return “satisfied.”

For, the sources said that Chidambaram’s visit to Rawalpindi might be followed by a meeting between Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao and her Pakistani counterpart Salman Bashir. The two foreign secretaries are the key officials put in charge of conducting and overseeing the composite dialogue. The sources though added that a meeting between the two foreign secretaries would not be for setting in motion the composite dialogue process all over again.
...

..
According to sources, if the Congress leadership gives its go-ahead to the Government and Pakistan makes a few moves – even if symbolic – to curb anti-India terrorist outfits; Singh may go in for a high-profile meeting with Gilani on the sidelines of the SAARC summit in Bhutanese capital Thimphu from April 28 to 29. Such a meeting might signal full resumption of the bilateral dialogue process.

[Prem]

Soliloquy of Demented Beg
Afghanistan: at a turning point
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... ng-point/1

Times have changed and such brutal state terrorism against the world of Islam, must come to an end. And, to safeguard our interests, the first major step that must be taken is, to form the Union of Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan, as the bastion of power, to repel aggression and establish peace, as a gift of Unity - the Strategic Depth, of the Muslim world. It is surprising that, in a recent interview with Farid Zakria, Holbrook vehemently opposed the concept of strategic depth and suggested that Pakistan should first put its own house in order and then talk about creating the three nations union. This is the strange logic, working since 1989, against this concept and purporting to create dissensions and doubts to forestall the movement.
Maulana Jalaluddin Roomi, the founder of the Whirling Dervishes, says: “Giants come forth from Afghanistan and influence the world” (extract from Idries Shah’s famous book The Sufis). His prophecy is coming true. He quotes Doctor Johnson, who was not favourably predisposed towards Islam, but had to acclaim about Roomi. “He makes plain to the pilgrims, the secrets of the Way of Unity and unveils the Mysteries of the Path of the Eternal Truth.” The ‘unity’ is in the offing and in a quiet moment, one can hear the rustling sound of the wind of change sweeping the region.

[putnanja]

Obama must encourage Kashmir-talks: US services chief

...
US military commander Admiral Mike Mullen said the Obama administration should encourage back channel talks between India and Pakistan on Kashmir. ``As part of our long-term regional approach, we should welcome all steps these important nations (India and Pakistan) take to regenerate their ‘back channel’ process on Kashmir,’’ Admiral Mullen, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in a testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

...
However, Admiral Mullen told US Senators that US efforts in the region were complicated by the “animosity and mistrust” between Pakistan and India. “Yet India and Pakistan must both be our partners for the long term. Bilateral military relationships are an essential component in a wide array of cooperative activities,” he said.code name for arm-twisting?

``We must recognise this and address it as part of our policy. While we acknowledge the sovereign right of India and Pakistan to pursue their own foreign policies, we must demonstrate our desire for continued and long-term partnership with each, and offer our help to improve confidence and understanding between them in a manner that builds long-term stability across the wider region of South Asia,” Admiral Mullen said.
...
..
“A particular concern is Lashkar-e-Toiba which, if it should conduct an attack against India, could very well undermine our efforts in Pakistan,” Mr Panetta said in remarks that support Admiral Mullen’s conclusions on Indo-Pak ties and US efforts in the Af-Pak region.
...

[Lalmohan]

talks are the price that pakistan is extracting from unkil for playing ball in afghanistan
hence gradual build up of pressure on india

question is, what are we going to do about it?

[putnanja]

It looks more like US wanting bog down India in talks so that the next terrorist attack won't create too much pressure on GoI. hence the financing of aman-ki-asha and stuff.

meanwhile, the GoI responds to the US request ...

‘A few steps’ on 26/11 is all India wants from Pak

...
The minister said that just ``a few steps'' from Pakistan on the 26/11 investigations could ensure resumption of the composite dialogue process between the two countries.

On his way to Kuwait for an official visit, Krishna said India would be ``quite satisfied'' with ``a few steps'' by Pakistan in the course of 26/11 investigations. The minister said it would make it ``easier for India to carry on normal business with Pakistan''.
...
For, while Krishna's remarks seem to reflect PMO's desire for a thaw in tensions, his emphasis that Pakistan needed to take "a few steps" is seen as underlining Congress leadership's insistence that meaningful and sustained dialogue will have to wait till Islamabad takes some demonstrable steps to bring the 26/11 masterminds to book.
...
...
Krishna's statement came on a day top US military commander Admiral Mike Mullen asserted that the Obama administration should encourage ``all steps these important nations (India and Pakistan) take to regenerate their `back channel' process on Kashmir''.
...
...
The prime ministers of the two countries are also likely to meet during the two-day SAARC Summit in Thimpu, which is to be held on April 28-29.

[saip]

So the 'Lady AlQuaeda' got her justice. Convicted on all counts! Her trick of getting rid of jews from the Jury did not work and american justice prevailed. Hope she rots in jail.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/ ... murder/?hp

[lakshmikanth]

chanakiyan* strategies at work I guess:

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 100085.ece
India has indicated its willingness to normalise ties with Pakistan following indications that Islamabad is serious about prosecuting the masterminds of the Mumbai terror attacks in November 2008. The first step in this direction would be the Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram’s end of the month visit to Rawalpindi to attend a meeting of SAARC Ministers where he could “get a chance to have useful exchanges” with Pakistani leaders in addition to the planned multilateral meetings, External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna told newspersons accompanying him for a visit to Kuwait.

Taking note of Pakistan’s readiness to accept the lone surviving gunman’s confessional statement as evidence to prosecute the planners of the Mumbai attacks and other evidence with respect to boats used to ferry the attackers from Karachi, Mr. Krishna said India interpreted these as constructive signals. “Any step forward in the direction of Pakistan also investigating the Mumbai attacks will certainly make it easier for India to carry out normalisation of business with Pakistan,” observed Mr. Krishna.

Asked whether India would move in the direction of reviving the composite dialogue if Pakistan continued to show resolve to bring to book its nationals involved in the Mumbai attacks, the Minister felt “India should be quite satisfied with Pakistan taking a few steps to investigate the Mumbai attacks” . He hoped Pakistan would continue to focus its attention on rooting out elements plotting violence in India and termed such an attitude as “extra helpful” to Indo-Pak bilateral relations and dialogue.

Looks like our Balls have been firmly squeezed by unkil+porkistan. This is the time we should demand more action and act more irresponsibly instead of throwing in the towel saying BS like the above. Statements like the above points to the fact that has been circulating in BRF: i.e. it is in GoIs interest to do just enough to get a reaction from porkistan to keep our aam-aadmi quiet. The above statements from SMK sound like the reaction that GoI was looking for has been achieved.

Jai Ho....

*the Chanakya being unkil

[pgbhat]

3 G.I.s Killed in Pakistan. Now Can We Start Treating This Like a Real War?

But according to Washington Post columnist and de facto government spokesperson David Ignatius, “the improved U.S.-Pakistani cooperation extends to other activities [beyond training] as well. A senior Pentagon official said Tuesday that in Bajaur, a tribal area bordering Afghanistan, the two countries’ military operations were ‘much more coordinated.’”

American forces have found themselves in combat within Pakistan’s borders before. Back in 2001, a pair of Rangers were killed in a Blackhawk crash in Pakistan. In 2008, a raid by U.S. special operations troops killed as many as 20 Pakistanis.

UPDATE 2: U.S. Central Command says the three troops killed today weren’t trigger-pullers. They were part of the military’s cadre of nation-builders, known as “civil affairs.” A CENTCOM statement notes that “the service members were assigned to the Office of the Defense Representative, Pakistan to conduct civil affairs-related training at the invitation of the Government of Pakistan.”

In other words, these soldiers weren’t involved in some high-speed, secret squirrel operation that needed to be kept quiet. They were part of a growing U.S. counterinsurgency in Pakistan. A widening war.

UPDATE 3: Rusty Shackleford over at the Jawa Report also thinks I’m off-base. “Admitting that we have troops on the ground engaged in combat roles would — literally — lead to a civil war in Pakistan. As it is, the Pakistani people tolerate – barely — the notion that foreign troops are there in a support mission,” he writes. “It is a catch-22, ironic, and duplicitous: but calling this a war is the same thing as losing it. Me, I’m willing to be called two-faced for sake of winning a war. Those that prefer consistency over victory are misguided.”

Captain Liz Mathias, on the other hand, thinks I’m on the right track. She writes in the comments:

Noah, I think you’re point about disclosure is more than valid, especially given the propaganda edge covert US operations in Pakistan give the TTP. As TTP routinely links Blackwater with large-scale attacks, they’ve built a strong perception that any foreign invovlement, official, covert or contract, occurs without accountability. Just as “Blackwater” didn’t go away when they changed their name, the real participation of US forces in Pakistan doesn’t go away if we don’t talk about it.

Obviously, she’s writing in a personal capacity here. But it’s worth noting that, until recently, Captain Mathias was a spokesperson for the U.S.-led coalition in Kabul.

[Rangudu]

S.M.Krishna at MEA = Shivraj Patil at HM = Empty Sherwani suits

[Anujan]

Saudi's Reject Pakistani Diplomat Whose Name Translates to 'Biggest Dick'

A high level Pakistani diplomat has been rejected as Ambassador of Saudi Arabia because his name, Akbar Zib, equates to "Biggest Dick" in Arabic.

[sanjaykumar]

Hehe I hope India sends Mr Mahalingam.

[krithivas]

The casual delivery of messages and equivalent body language (to me) indicate that PC and SMK have not done their homework. This stands out stark in contrast when compared with the measured diplomatic lingua-franca and physical posture of most Western policy makers.

Add to this, the casual language and tone used by Indian reporters make our angst level go higher (for those who are tuned in like most BR-ers).

The Indian political class must think and act and more importantly communicate like leaders in charge both in verbal and body language for the world to take us seriously.

[Satya_anveshi]

"No dialog with pakistan until terrorism is addressed" can be stated in so many different ways - "We insist pakistan to come discuss with us on how terrorism can be stopped", "we invite pakistan to discuss what steps it is taking to stop cross border terrorism", if we all we have beg we can say " we urge pakistan to begin dialog process and come with proposals to end terrorism"...there are lot of ways to say it by keeping options future open. It is common sense that you never close (or perception of it) the communication channel whatever be situation or whoever be the party.

We somehow deliver a tough message that effectively closes our options too.

SM Krishna saying "all we need is a few steps from pakistan"...amounts to begging. Even if it is required him to beg, he can beg is so may different ways without creating that perception.

[a_kumar]

I think before they wet dream about cashmore etc., the real agenda is to start the talks so that there is something to break off when the next attack happens. That is supposed to be the safety valve that the Indian public should be soothed with, and no real action.

Just like they give you a gauze to bite into to control the pain as they gouge out your skin without anesthesia, they are concerned that the gauze they had in there has worn off and a new gauze needs to be there: talks that can be broken off.

Dear Visa Officer , thats a beautiful analogy.

Aman-ki-Tamasha and WKK actions should from now on be called for what they are : efforts to re-create the "retaliatory option" in preparation for the impending attacks.

Or.. AGP campaign (Add Gauze Pronto)

[Pranav]

Apologies if this was posted earlier. And even more apologies for making you consume this syrup of ipecac. It is from the Wall St. Journal, of all places:

Make the Call to Islamabad, Mr. Singh
By PAUL BECKETT
WSJ link
....
But what neither government appears to be dealing with is the fact that they face a stark deadline: the next, apparently imminent, attack on India.

This is a dangerous development. Possible translation: "Unless you appease our drowning Munna, we are going to unleash our Headleys and give green light Pakjabi Army to unleash Hafiz Saeed and Co."

Need to be on guard.

[komal]

The WSJ is a Murdoch owned rag whose editorial pages have zero credibility among sane people. Even before Murdoch, there were editorials in that rag praising the Taliban take over of Afghanistan.

[svinayak]

The WSJ is a Murdoch owned rag whose editorial pages have zero credibility among sane people. Even before Murdoch, there were editorials in that rag praising the Taliban take over of Afghanistan.

It is a pentagon view newspaper

[anupmisra]

Serial Cheat

Test umpire Darrell Hair has branded disgraced Shahid Afridi a serial cheat likely to re-offend. “Cheat is the only word for him,” “He has cheated before, he has cheated in this instance — he pleaded guilty — and I’m sure he will again. He is no angel.

A highly overrated player

Hair was effectively run out of the game by the International Cricket Council for several years after reporting the Pakistan side for ball tampering in a Test against England at The Oval in 2006.

TV cameras caught him (Afridi) scraping his boots on the pitch when play was held up after a gas canister exploded.

[anupmisra]

Pakistan almost pulled out of SAG

The Pakistan contingent had all but pulled out of the 11th South Asian Games on Tuesday as one of their top wrestlers, Mohammad Ali, was arrested and kept under confinement for over 14 hours on his arrival at the Dhaka International Airport.

Ali was arrested at the time of his arrival in Dhaka on the pretext that he had committed a crime during his stay in Bangladesh in 2003

[arun]

Saudi's Reject Pakistani Diplomat Whose Name Translates to 'Biggest Dick'

A high level Pakistani diplomat has been rejected as Ambassador of Saudi Arabia because his name, Akbar Zib, equates to "Biggest Dick" in Arabic.

Over at Foreign Policy they are musing if this could be “the result of a particularly egregious cockup” :

Pakistani ambassador rejected because his name is NSFW in Arabic

[SureshP]

Some background on Dr Aafia Siddiqui from her ex-husband

Dr Aafia Siddiqui’s husband breaks his silence after six years

Wednesday, February 18, 2009
Claims most reports in the local media are false, suspects his two ‘missing’ children are in Karachi

By Aroosa Masroor

KARACHI: After six years of silence, Dr Muhammad Amjad Khan, ex-husband of Dr Aafia Siddiqui, has finally spoken up and says that most of the press reports that relate to his former wife as well as his children are false. In an exclusive talk with The News, he said that most claims are being propagated to garner public support and sympathy for Dr Aafia but are one-sided and in most instances untrue.

Dr Aafia Siddiqui, suspected of having links to terrorist organizations, has been charged in a criminal complaint filed in a court of New York on account of attempting to kill US personnel during interrogation and on a charge of assaulting US officers and employees in Kabul, Afghanistan, on July 17, 2008. Subsequently Dr Aafia was imprisoned in Bagram for 18 days before being taken to the US for a trial.

Due to pressure from Aafia Siddiqui’s family, the Pakistan government has been trying to secure her release from the US claiming her to be innocent. Although the US government has guaranteed Aafia the best legal assistance and a fair trial, her family is adamant that she be sent back on grounds that the US authorities have been consistently torturing her for years.

“Aafia’s release cannot be secured by propagating stories based on falsehood and deception,” commented Dr Amjad Khan, in an interview with The News. Dr Amjad, who was married to Dr Aafia for seven years until their divorce in October 2002, said Aafia’s family and supporters should not believe that truth will not be revealed and mere lies will help in securing Aafia’s repatriation.

He added that he is disappointed with the government’s disregard for the law when officials handed over his eldest son, Ahmad, to his aunt Dr Fowzia Siddiqui on his return from Afghanistan last year instead of his legal guardian, his father. “The government made no effort to locate me despite the fact that I am Ahmad’s real and legal guardian. My address in Karachi has not changed for the past 30 years. Ever since I returned from the US after our divorce, I have been living with my family,” he said adding: “Both the Minister for Interior Rehman Malik and Dr Fowzia have been taking credit for obtaining Ahmad’s release even though there was not a stone I left unturned to locate my missing children and obtain their custody according to law.”

Providing documentary proof of the legal agreement between him and Dr Aafia following their divorce, Dr Amjad said that he had been financially supporting his three children Ahmed, Marium and Suleiman until the family stopped accepting the cheques he had been mailing. “After the agreement they accepted my cheques till March 2003. After that my cheques were being returned from Aafia’s home and that got me worried. Soon after I learnt that in April 2003, Aafia and our children had been ‘picked up’ by agencies.” Meanwhile, he received disturbing reports from the family that Aafia chose to leave Karachi with her children as she feared an attack from him.

Curious to locate the whereabouts of his children, Dr Amjad sought the help of the police and government officials to find them. “I was aware of Aafia’s violent personality and extremist views and suspected her involvement in Jihadi activities. My fear later proved to be true when during Uzair Paracha’s trial in the US in 2004, the real purpose of Aafia’s trip to the US (between December 23, 2002 and January 3, 2003) was revealed.”

Elaborating, Dr Amjad disclosed that he later learnt from media reports that Aafia’s family claimed she made this trip to the US for job interviews in December at a time when universities were closed for winter holidays. “I also found it very odd that on the one hand Aafia insisted on leaving the US after September 11, 2001, claiming the country was unsafe for us and our children because the US government was abducting Muslim children, and on the other hand took the risk of travelling to that country again without fearing that she may be captured and may never see our children again.”

While Dr Aafia was in the US, the authorities had been closely watching her, added Amjad. They soon issued the first global “wanted for questioning” alert for the couple in March 2003. “At that time, the agencies did not know we were divorced and I was also unaware of Aafia’s involvement with two other terror suspects, Majid Khan and Ammar Al-Baluchi. They wanted me to persuade Aafia to appear for the interview with them and clear the charges leveled against her just as I had done. That is when she went underground and it later became apparent why she chose to ‘disappear’,” disclosed Dr Amjad.

Sharing details of his unsuccessful marriage with Dr Aafia, Dr Amjad told The News that since their marriage was arranged, he was unaware of Aafia’s violent behaviour. “She got hysterical fits when she became angry and would physically attack me, but I put up with it for the sake of our children.”

Although Amjad and Aafia both were inclined towards religion, he found her opinion towards Jihad to be of an extreme nature that sometimes made him uncomfortable. He became particularly suspicious of his wife’s intentions when soon after the 9/11 attacks, she compelled Amjad to leave Boston (where Amjad was completing his residency) and move to Afghanistan where she claimed “he would be more useful”.

The couple, however, chose to come to Pakistan instead for a vacation and discuss the matter with Amjad’s family. It was here that his parents noticed Aafia’s violent behaviour towards their son on several occasions, particularly when she openly asked for khula (divorce) when Amjad declined to go to Afghanistan. Therefore Amjad decided to file for a divorce as Aafia was adamant she wanted to go. “I tried my best to save our marriage, but divorce was inevitable,” he recalls.

However, after mutual consent, the couple signed a legal agreement whereby the custody of the three minors was given to Aafia, while Amjad was required to pay for their education and maintenance. “Although the agreement says I am permitted to meet my children once a week, I was not allowed to do so,” claimed Amjad sharing a copy of the agreement during the interview.

Based on his past experience, Amjad says he had reason to worry about his children. “I feared Aafia might pursue her political ambitions to the detriment of our children’s welfare so I couldn’t help following her case after her family claimed she had been abducted.” Amjad added that he was tempted to use other means to try and rescue his children in these past five years especially since he had evidence that were missing or kidnapped, he claimed. “But I chose to be patient and pursued the case according to the law.” He also filed a case in court against Aafia to obtain the custody of his children.

“When the Court was unsuccessful, I requested the HRCP to include my children’s names in their missing persons petition in the Supreme Court and also appealed to the Chief Justice for Suo Moto action as this was the only case where three minors were involved.”

However, after Ahmad was released and handed over to Dr Fowzia last year, Dr Amjad requested her to allow him to visit his son, but she refused. “At first she said Ahmed was mentally unfit to talk, and then claimed that he was not my son but an orphan adopted by Aafia and US reports that his DNA matched Aafia’s were also ‘cooked’. I refused to accept any of that as I had identified my son as soon as I saw a report on the electronic media of his arrest in Afghanistan.”

When questioned on what basis was Aafia’s family†denying a meeting with his son, Amjad stated that the family is punishing him for divorcing Aafia. “Aafia’s mother and Dr Fowzia had warned me at the time of our divorce that they would take revenge†by not letting me meet the children,” he said adding “But now they are discouraging a meeting with Ahmad because they fear Ahmad will reveal the truth about Aafia’s activities and whereabouts of his siblings over these years.”

He added that Dr Fowzia had similarly threatened him several years ago by taking a picture of Aafia while she was asleep after she injured her upper lip (by a milk bottle)†in an accident. Dr Fowzia warned Amjad that if he tried to divorce Aafia, she would use the picture against him alleging him to be an abusive husband. “It was made to appear in the picture that Aafia was badly injured. Today, the same picture is being circulated in the media to claim that Aafia was tortured for years in Bagram,” he revealed.†

Furthermore, Amjad listed the several allegations leveled against him over the years to justify his not meeting his children: First they accused him of kidnapping his three children soon after his divorce with Aafia. To deny this accusation, he lodged a complaint against the family with the Sindh Police and requested officials to help him locate his children, but to no avail.

Later, Aafia’s family accused him of being an abusive husband and father preventing the children from meeting their father. “Aafia’s mother has also accused me in the media of changing the children’s names whereas in reality they had resorted to these tactics to conceal the children.”

He alleged that Dr Fowzia also used the Asian Human Rights Commission, an NGO based in Honk Kong, to mislead the government about his two missing children. “The AHRC received the information about my two missing children being in an orphanage in Afghanistan from Dr Fowzia, who was diverting attention away from the place where the children really are.” claimed Amjad.

Earlier, when Aafia’s father died, the family held Amjad responsible for his death too claiming he suffered a stroke after he saw the divorce document. “That is simply not true because I mailed the document two days after Aafia’s father died and that too because I was unaware of the unfortunate incident. Their family never kept me posted on anything in the six-week period between our verbal and written divorce. I was just as shocked at his death.”

Moreover, the family alleged that Aafia was in trouble and had been kidnapped because her former husband (Dr Amjad) handed over her personal diary to the FBI. “After this, false reports about Aafia’s arrest and Pakistani government’s involvement in handing her over to the US despite repeated denials by the Minister of Interior and other officials, started making headlines” claims the doctor, who has now re-married.

It is the whereabouts of his two children ñ Marium now aged 10, and six-year-old Suleiman ñ that worries him now, said Amjad. Like the coordinates of Dr Aafia Siddiqui remained a mystery after she was allegedly ‘picked up’ in March 2003, Dr Amjad believes Aafia’s family may be using the same tactics in the case of his two children, who are reportedly ‘missing’.

“I am sure they are around Karachi and in contact with their maternal family as both Aafia and the children were seen around their house here and in Islamabad on multiple occasions since their alleged disappearance in 2003. They may be living under an assumed identity just like Aafia and Ahmed had been living [as Saliha and Ali Ahsan] for five years before they got arrested,” believes the father. He said Dr Fowzia’s claim that the children are missing after being removed from the Bagram prison in Afghanistan ‘may be an attempt to attract sympathy of the government and the people and distract its attention from the real location.’

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=20404

[abhishek_sharma]

Soldier Deaths Draw Focus to U.S. Presence in Pakistan

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/world ... pstan.html

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The deaths of three American soldiers in a Taliban suicide attack on Wednesday lifted the veil on United States military assistance to Pakistan that the authorities here would like to keep quiet and the Americans, as the donors, chafe at not receiving credit for.

The soldiers were among at least 60 to 100 members of a Special Operations team that trains Pakistan’s paramilitary Frontier Corps in counterinsurgency techniques, including intelligence gathering and development assistance. The American service members serve under the overall command of Adm. Eric T. Olson, the head of the Special Operations Command.

At least 12 other American service members have been killed in Pakistan since Sept. 11, 2001, in hotel bombings and a plane crash, according to the United States Central Command, but these were the first killed as part of the Special Operations training, which has been under way for 18 months.

That training has been acknowledged only gingerly by both the Americans and the Pakistanis, but has deliberately been kept low-key so as not to trespass onto Pakistani sensitivities about sovereignty, and not to further inflame high anti-American sentiment.

Even though the United States calls Pakistan an ally, the country, unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, has not allowed American combat forces to operate here, a point that is stressed by the Pentagon and the Pakistani Army, the most powerful institution in Pakistan.

Instead, the Central Intelligence Agency operates what has become the main American weapon in Pakistan, the drones armed with missiles that have struck with increasing intensity against militants with the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the lawless tribal areas.

The American soldiers were probably made targets as a result of the drone strikes, said Syed Rifaat Hussain, professor of international relations at Islamabad University. “The attack seems a payback for the mounting frequency of the drone attacks,” Professor Hussain said.

If the American soldiers were the targets, the attack raised the question of whether the Taliban had received intelligence or cooperation from within the Frontier Corps.

[sum]

“We can consider moving ahead (towards resumption of composite dialogue) only if he (Chidambaram) comes back satisfied that the Pakistani government is really addressing our concerns,” said a highly placed source. But these sources also gave very strong indications that he will return “satisfied.”

So, the die has been set...

So, all the wet dreams of the jingoes post 26/11 remains just that, a wet dream. Thanks anyways for BR for providing some kind of (misplaced) optimism in the aftermath of 26/11.

Onwards to the next attack and next round of empty rhetoric by our netas.

[Pranav]

Good article by esteemed member R Vaidya:

Just boycott Pakistan

R Vaidyanathan

It is futile to persist with talking to a country whose politics, society and economy are controlled by its Army and which will never abandon its policy of promoting cross-border terrorism. Corporate India must get real and simply enforce a total boycott of Pakistan. It will yield results

Pakistan is one of the few places where the Army owns a country and runs it. This is an important issue since studies have found that a large number of corporates in Pakistan are ultimately owned by Fauji Foundation, Army Welfare Trust, Bahria Foundation and Shaheen Foundation — all owned by the different wings of the Pakistani armed forces. More than three-fourths of the market capitalisation of the Karachi stock exchange is owned by the Army and related groups.

Hence do not try to think of Pakistan without its Army, whoever may be temporarily and nominally ruling that place. Also, significant portion of its GDP is due to Army-controlled entities. This is explained in detail by Ayesha Siddiqa in her book, Military Inc — Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy, and one can easily say that Pakistan’s economy and its Army /ISI are synonymous. Unless this elementary fact is internalised we are not going anywhere.

In the last few years the Indian economy has been growing at a significant rate. It was valued at $ 1.22 trillion during 2008 and that of Pakistan at $ 168 billion in the same year. One can say that India’s GDP will continue to grow around 9-10 per cent per annum. And even assuming a growth rate of six per cent for that of Pakistan, we can estimate that within the next decade the annual additional GDP of India will be that of Pakistan. Individual States in India, particularly the larger ones, will be better off than Pakistan. Already the Pakistani rupee is nearly half the Indian rupee and Pakistan is slowly becoming an international basket case due to its excessive reliance on American, European and Saudi aid.

Pakistan, particularly its elite, has always visualised India to be a competitor, particularly through the India-Pakistan hyphenated relation. They have always wanted to establish ‘equality’ in terms of parity. But due to global developments and India’s growth and Pakistan’s role as the terror crucible of the world — it is now equated with Yemen and Somalia in terms of global threat perceptions and its citizens’ luggage is checked thrice in most airports. Instead of India-Pakistan what is being talked about is AfPak and India-China.

When recently — normally docile — FICCI produced a well-documented study titled National Security and Terrorism to deal with terrorism originating from that country, the Karachi Chambers of Commerce protested against it. Almost all terror attacks in any part of the world in the last decade have had a link with Pakistan.

Given the growth trajectory of the two countries, the Army-controlled country called Pakistan will get into a greater quagmire and will become more aggressive due to anger born out of jealousy. That will encourage the ISI and Army to increase terror attacks inside India. It is important to remember that young Army officers of Bangladesh liberation war vintage have all become senior Generals now and they would like to take revenge for the loss of their territory. Instead of direct war, they have found an excellent weapon in state- encouraged and state-sponsored terrorism by non-state actors like the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba, Harkat-ul-Jihad and Jaish-e-Mohammed. Economically growing India has to deal with this. How?

There are three groups in India which are obsessed with friendship with Pakistan. The first group comprises elderly people born in that part before partition and who are nostalgic about Lahore havelis, halwa and mujra. The second group comprises Bollywood actors, directors and assorted outfits who look at Pakistan as a big market. Dawood Ibrahim’s gang has financed many of these useful idiots. The third group comprises bleeding heart liberals who hold candle light vigils and who cannot imagine India doing well without its ‘younger brother’ taken care of. All three have been proved wrong a hundred times but they unfortunately play an important role in moulding opinion.

If we want the world to treat Pakistan for what it is, then we should start practicing it. We must always recognise it as the ‘Terrorist State of Pakistan’ and never have any illusion that it is going to be any different. We should completely and comprehensively cut off all relations with Pakistan — economic, cultural, sports and all other aspects. Dawood Ibrahim-funded Bollywood may weep. South Africa was shamed and shunned for its policy of apartheid, so should Pakistan for practicing terrorism as a state policy. Unless we start completely boycotting the ‘Terrorist State of Pakistan’ we cannot ask others to do it. If we completely boycott the Pakistanis for a few years we will see the results. Their roots are Indic and not in Saudi Arabia.

If corporate India — including electronic and print media — starts practicing it, then we can see results in a few years. One hopes that India’s elite is listening and will not get carried away by asha for the demons.

- The writer is Professor of Finance at Indian Institute of Management, Bangalore. The views expressed here do not reflect those of his organisation.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/233677/Just ... istan.html

As of now the Pakjabi establishment has disavowed the 4-step Kashmir plan that Musharraf had supported in the dying days of his presidency. IMHO, if at all the Pakjabis become willing to go that to that plan, it may make sense to renew dialog.

[sanjaykumar]

If corporate India — including electronic and print media — starts practicing it, then we can see results in a few years.


The question is what results does India want to see? There is not even a consensus on India needing to theek Pakistan. Does India have any strategic objectives in place or is the plan to continue ad hoc and hope for the best.

Does India want an Indic Pakistan? In which instance it is obliged to democratise it, to industrialize it and to secularise Pakistan. The Wagah brigade needs to be be expanded from a few well-fed kooks to a grass-roots movement.

Does India want an Islamist Pakistan? In this case Pakistan needs to be encouraged to continue on its present course. The pot in Sindh and Bauchistan needs to be boiled, it is not even simmering yet.

Does India want Pakistan reduced to Nepal's status? Then it needs to work to exclude Chinese and American influence-not presently achievable, but India has not made Pakistan a principle of its dealings with either of these extra-regional actors.

Does India want to destroy Pakistan? Then it needs to boost defence spending to 6% GDP and induct 5000 missiles-ballistic and cruise for the Pakistan sector exclusively.

India has no defined strategic objectives in Pakistan-cessation of terrorist strikes is a defensive tactical policy, ultimately demonstrating a limited vision.