J & K news and discussion

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 22 Sep 2010 18:11

RajeshA wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Good. So non-Kashmiri ROPers have finally felt the pain of their Kashmiri brethren. At least this will blow off the 'secular, tolerant' image that Deoband had been trying to create through their pseudo-secular apologists.
Yes but the Indian Muslims are also in a unique position through interaction with the Kashmir Muslims, impress upon them to reconsider their stand on the question of Azadi - that they are at home in India.

It is time the Indian Muslims start doing their part of the bargain for Indian 'secularism', regardless of the debate whether the bargain was or was not good for India.

Indian Muslim are already doing their part saar. Just wait and watch, they would piggyback on the Kashmiri movement & start whining about their own 'grievances' - Batla house is already being played up, Ayodhya judgment is just around the corner and then there's Sachar Report, muslims not getting houses in delhi, education in Bombay etc etc. This is what is going to happen at the Deoband conference.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 22 Sep 2010 18:25

^ +1

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Sep 2010 18:52

No, if Deobandi's meet - it will be clear publicly as to what is the long term agenda. There are people around in the media and elsewhere who have chosen to not only remain blind but also to blind those who can yet see. All this comes out as surprising simply because the portions of information that would have shown the long existing trend towards convergence of objectives have been carefully suppressed from public visibility. The only differences that we see are basically an internal fight for the leadership of the movement - but not any essential difference in the ultimate target.

As I said the Deobandis need to assert their stake in the J&K leadership for two primary reasons - not to allow the leadership and agitation to go out of control of the UP based cliques, and second not to allow it to become so radical overtly that it exposes the underlying objectives of the theologians themselves. Both jeopardize the caliphatization programme.

They could have been prompted by the possible go-betweens who landed up PC in a spot, and extraction of the flimsy statements on "terror" in return for a virtual recognition of the rights of Islamist clergy to dictate law for Indian citizens following their faith. The go betweens - if they have done so - made another strategic blunder over J&K for some wishful tactical gains.

You cannot use a second authority to negotiate and bring pressure on a group without compromising your own authority. Basically if Deobandis have been used by some wisetrap to coerce the KM separatists ideologically - then it is an utter, total stupidity. At one stroke it implies that the political forces have surrendered their power to negotiate or coerce, especially the state's monopoly over coercion - into the hands of a structure that itself openly admits to the ambition of establishing a peculiar and particualr theological state where all state authority is fused in a theocracy. Moreover that such a move will be utilized by this very structure to consolidate its hold over radical voices and use them towards its ultimate objective.

This is the type of short term tactical thinking that gifted us Talebs in AFG - with US actively encouraging and using Islamist factions within AFG for a local gain.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Sep 2010 20:31

Chandragupta wrote:

Indian Muslim are already doing their part saar. Just wait and watch, they would piggyback on the Kashmiri movement & start whining about their own 'grievances' - Batla house is already being played up, Ayodhya judgment is just around the corner and then there's Sachar Report, muslims not getting houses in delhi, education in Bombay etc etc. This is what is going to happen at the Deoband conference.

They are looking for a big rallying point to piggyback and pitch their grievances, imagined or otherwise.

Use of the WKMs is just to fire the gun from someones shoulder as it is convenient at this time.

They have seen in MMS and this drag ass government the eagerness to placate the WKMs and are hoping that the same "facilities" will be extended to them also provided sufficient noise is made.

Interesting times to come.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Sep 2010 20:35

chetak wrote:
The sources said chief of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference Ali Syed Ali Shah Geelani will also be invited for the conference where the Muslim ulemas will express their “solidarity” with the people of the Valley.

Following the conference, the Jamiat will also launch a countrywide awareness campaign to sensitise all sections of civil society about the sufferings of the people in Kashmir and to seek cooperation of all organisations and leaders cutting across religious, social and political affiliations.

Are they going to help the Kashmiri Pandits who are the people of the valley. What about the suffering of sufferings of the people in Kashmir like Pandits.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2010 20:39

Venkarl wrote:Why the practice of linking news articles isn't practiced when it comes to Pioneer articles? Is BR a donor or a partner of Pioneer?

Good CT. Why don't you vist Pioneer site and check out their archives policy before making two bit accusations?

Just becasue you can post doesn't mean you have to do so.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 22 Sep 2010 21:34

U.N. chief appeals for restraint in Kashmir

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article741896.ece

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has called for an immediate end to violence in Kashmir and appealed for restraint by all parties, his spokesperson said on Wednesday.

“The Secretary-General regrets the latest loss of life. He calls for an immediate end to violence and urges calm and restraint by all concerned,” Martin Nesirky told journalists, adding that Mr. Ban was “closely following events”.

The Kashmir Valley remains under a relaxed curfew after months of persistent clashes between demonstrators and security personnel, which have claimed more than 100 lives.

The statement comes almost a month after the U.N. sent out an email, which said that Mr. Ban called on “all concerned to exercise utmost restraint and address problems peacefully” and he “encourages both sides to rekindle the spirit of the composite dialogue”.

Following protests by the Indian government, the U.N. withdrew the remarks and described it as “media guidance” and not a “statement by the Secretary-General”.

Meanwhile, External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna arrived here to attend the UN General Assembly session.

UN seems to be sliding into irrelevance as the permanent members themselves flout its guidelines and rules without any consequence. With people like Ban Ki-Moon at the helm, even the respectability that the position of Sec Gen had, is going down the drain.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Sep 2010 22:11

After dividing the House , Congress goes to outsiders and bring both ROPER and ROLER to hang on to suck some more blood of Indians. Centuries of struggle wasted away for gaddhi. Leniency for lunatics of KAWAJF cabal has brought nothing but destruction , since they are overt Wahabi Jihadi now, time to liquidate them is now not latter when instead of Poaks , Panda will be manning the LOC.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Sep 2010 22:24

brihaspati wrote:
...

As I said the Deobandis need to assert their stake in the J&K leadership for two primary reasons - not to allow the leadership and agitation to go out of control of the UP based cliques, and second not to allow it to become so radical overtly that it exposes the underlying objectives of the theologians themselves. Both jeopardize the caliphatization programme.

...

You cannot use a second authority to negotiate and bring pressure on a group without compromising your own authority. Basically if Deobandis have been used by some wisetrap to coerce the KM separatists ideologically - then it is an utter, total stupidity. At one stroke it implies that the political forces have surrendered their power to negotiate or coerce, especially the state's monopoly over coercion - into the hands of a structure that itself openly admits to the ambition of establishing a peculiar and particualr theological state where all state authority is fused in a theocracy. Moreover that such a move will be utilized by this very structure to consolidate its hold over radical voices and use them towards its ultimate objective.

This is the type of short term tactical thinking that gifted us Talebs in AFG - with US actively encouraging and using Islamist factions within AFG for a local gain.

Nice summary B-ji. Thanks for the thought process...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2010 22:43

Wiki Definition of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_of_Peace

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 22 Sep 2010 23:56

ramana wrote:
Venkarl wrote:Why the practice of linking news articles isn't practiced when it comes to Pioneer articles? Is BR a donor or a partner of Pioneer?
Good CT. Why don't you vist Pioneer site and check out their archives policy before making two bit accusations?

Just becasue you can post doesn't mean you have to do so.

...CT???accusations?? woww...those were doubts I had and you named it with whatever you wished...strange ..anyways gatam gataha...so apologies to you if my doubts sounded like a CT or 2 bit Accusations on the forum....this kind of hostility from a resident guru like you is disheartening..I am here to learn onlee.

Peace.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2010 00:58

So much babbling is going on in this thread. I thought you too were at it. There is hardly any nationalistic press left and to associate BRF with Pioneer would drag them down too in eyes of media chatterati has beens.

Thanks for clarifying your post.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 23 Sep 2010 01:23

No problem Sir..I can understand....

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Sep 2010 08:09

Before BJP, SP raised red flag over team’s meeting with separatists

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Befor ... sts/686310

It was the Samajwadi Party and not the usual suspect — the BJP — which raised a red flags over the all-party delegation meeting with separatists during its visit to Jammu and Kashmir.

The delegation also met Hashim Qureshi, who hijacked an IA plane on January 30, 1971 and took the aircraft to Lahore — he was sentenced to 14 years in jail by a Pakistani court for being an Indian agent. Qureshi, who returned to India in 2000 and is now the chief of Jammu Kashmir Democratic Liberation Party, told the delegation that while he was opposed to Indian involvement in Kashmir, if asked to choose between India and Pakistan, he would choose India. The reason, he said, was that he had seen the poor conditions in which the people of PoK lived.

So Samajwadi Party is against separatists. Good news.

anchal · Post by **anchal** » 23 Sep 2010 13:06

Finally some sense!

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 611872.cms

Pointing out that Pakistan is in "illegal occupation of some parts of Jammu and Kashmir", Krishna said, "it is desirable that they vacate that and then start advising India as to how to go about doing things in Kashmir."

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 23 Sep 2010 14:59

abhishek_sharma wrote:Before BJP, SP raised red flag over team’s meeting with separatists

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Befor ... sts/686310

It was the Samajwadi Party and not the usual suspect — the BJP — which raised a red flags over the all-party delegation meeting with separatists during its visit to Jammu and Kashmir.

The delegation also met Hashim Qureshi, who hijacked an IA plane on January 30, 1971 and took the aircraft to Lahore — he was sentenced to 14 years in jail by a Pakistani court for being an Indian agent. Qureshi, who returned to India in 2000 and is now the chief of Jammu Kashmir Democratic Liberation Party, told the delegation that while he was opposed to Indian involvement in Kashmir, if asked to choose between India and Pakistan, he would choose India. The reason, he said, was that he had seen the poor conditions in which the people of PoK lived.
So Samajwadi Party is against separatists. Good news.

Sorry for OT, but did Hashim Qureshi serve any sentence in India if he was a hijacker ?

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 23 Sep 2010 15:07

From
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_pa ... rt_1441945

Upping the ante, Pakistan today said there can be no result-oriented discussions with India on Kashmir unless New Delhi stops treating it as the country's integral part and seeking a solution within the ambit of the Indian Constitution.

Intensifying the criticism of the situation in Jammu & Kashmir, Pakistan foreign office spokesman Abdul Basit called on India to "revisit its approach and its Kashmir policy rather than trying cosmetic measures here and there because this is not going to bring about any difference as far as the Jammu & Kashmir dispute is concerned."

"Unless India takes a fresh look at its Kashmir policy, does some introspection and stops treating Jammu & Kashmir as its integral part and stops harping on seeking a solution within the Indian Constitution, we do not believe that we can really have any meaningful or result-oriented discussions with India on this (issue)," Basit told a weekly news briefing.

He was responding to a question on the Indian government's efforts to address the protests in Jammu & Kashmir by sending a delegation of political leaders to meet Kashmiri leaders.

Basit noted that the Hurriyat Conference had already rejected the move.

He also described as "self-serving" India's rejection of resolutions passed by both houses of Pakistan's Parliament condemning the violence in Jammu & Kashmir and calling on the international community to ensure the implementation of UN resolutions on Kashmir.

"Jammu & Kashmir is an international issue and subject of several UN resolutions. The Senate and National Assembly resolutions of September 20 reflect the concerns of the people of Pakistan on the gross and systematic violations of human rights of the Kashmiri people by Indian security forces," he said.

"Pakistan is committed to finding a just and peaceful settlement of the Jammu & Kashmir dispute and will continue extending its moral, diplomatic and political support to Kashmiris in their legitimate struggle against Indian occupation," he said.

In response to another question, Basit said Pakistan is not undertaking any propaganda against India on the Kashmir issue.

"If you are describing that as propaganda on the part of Pakistan, it is totally self-serving and just to mislead the international community because the issue is far bigger than what the Indians are saying," he said.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Sep 2010 15:21

^^^ in that case, pakistan can go kiss its musharraf

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Sep 2010 15:53

Chilling warning from TSPA/ISI through Madam

India must realise that it is only reaping the whirlwind of the atrocities it is committing in Kashmir. Not surprisingly, a number of Indians are beginning to frankly admit the fact that violence in India for instance, the Mumbai attacks, is directly linked with the Kashmir issue. The Indian ruling circles would be further endangering the lives of their countrymen as well as the people of the region by sticking to their stand that Kashmir is India’s integral part. A solution in line with the UNSC Resolutions must be found before it is too late.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Sep 2010 15:58

^^ yes madam, lets follow the UNSC resolutions, let the TSPA and the PLA withdraw from all of its illegally occupied territories and then lets discuss

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Sep 2010 16:36

CRamS wrote:Chilling warning from TSPA/ISI through Madam

India must realise that it is only reaping the whirlwind of the atrocities it is committing in Kashmir. Not surprisingly, a number of Indians are beginning to frankly admit the fact that violence in India for instance, the Mumbai attacks, is directly linked with the Kashmir issue. The Indian ruling circles would be further endangering the lives of their countrymen as well as the people of the region by sticking to their stand that Kashmir is India’s integral part. A solution in line with the UNSC Resolutions must be found before it is too late.

Sorry. Madam's warning is like whore who charged less for dry access and more for wet access. How she managed wetness was by breaking the pustules caused by her gonorrhea. A hack thoo to this lump of crap.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 23 Sep 2010 17:07

From http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/women ... -j-k-54184

Women Lashkar terrorists to provoke violent protests in J&K
Zaffar Iqbal, Updated: September 23, 2010 11:57 IST

Srinagar: The Army In Jammu and Kashmir has issued a statement warning that it expects terrorists from the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) to use street protests to provoke violence that targets security forces.

The army's statement specifies:

"It has come to the notice of the Intelligence Agencies, through various inputs received, that terrorists belonging to LeT are likely to intermingle with the protestors in various protests being carried out. As per the inputs received, the operatives of LeT have sought permission from their handler across the border to intermingle with the protestors and lob grenades or explode IEDs during the protests with the aim of creating large scale casualties and inciting the protestors to resort to violence. These are likely to be carried out in close proximity of Security Forces camps and posts so as to ensure that the violence is diverted against these, resulting in retaliation by the security forces. This is likely to set in motion a chain of events leading to high rate of casualties.

It has also been revealed that even highly trained women terrorists, who are experts in handling of explosives are likely to be at the forefront of this new strategy aimed at upping the ante by exponentially increasing the intensity of the violence and consequently the number of casualties. The local operatives and OGWs have also been instructed to motivate the economically weaker sections of the populace including women to form part of the protests."

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 23 Sep 2010 21:38

A news article in Yahoo! saying that some Kashmiri Muslims have started migrating to safer places like Jammu

)
Sorry for not being able to post the link.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 23 Sep 2010 22:22

J&K: Groups representing Jammu denounce NC’s demand for autonomy

NEW DELHI: The all-party delegation on Kashmir, which was in Jammu on Tuesday, heard views diametrically opposite to ones expressed by representatives of political parties and interest groups in the Kashmir Valley.

Different groups representing Jammu denounced National Conference’s demand for autonomy and PDP’s self-rule, demanded more representation to Jammu region in the state assembly and Lok Sabha. A few even demanded abrogation of Article 370, the constitutional provision that guarantees special status to J&K.

Almost all Jammu groups questioned the decision by a small contingent of parliamentarians to visit residences of separatists, including pro-Pakistani hard-liner Syed Ali Shah Geelani.

It was not just BJP’s state unit which raised these issues, a member of the all-party delegation told ET on condition of anonymity. Congress MP from Udhampur, Mr Lal Singh, speaking to the delegation, which included National Conference patron Farooq Abdullah, denounced the autonomy proposal being pushed by Mr Abdullah’s party.

His contention was supported by members of local units of other political parties such as JD(U), JD(S), BSP and even representatives of the Sikh community.

The autonomy and self-rule proposal of NC and PDP, the two main parties of J&K which contests elections, were criticised by groups, including representatives of various student bodies, academic groups, traders’ associations, doctors and industry federations.

They were very critical of CPM polit bureau member Sitaram Yechury, who led a smaller group to visit houses of separatist leaders in Srinagar.

The Jammu representatives argued that this was a “disincentive to nationalism”.
“Kashmiri pundits were not being given time to meet the delegation. But a few members of the team found it convenient to meet leaders such as Geelani, whose anti-India views are known to everyone,” members of a student group from Jammu are learnt to have said.

The Shiv Sena’s state unit asked how Mr Yechury and the other members of the sub-group could ‘breach discipline’ by going to meet the separatists.

Another issue which came to the fore during discussions was the strong demand, aired by almost every group, to give more representation to the people of Jammu in the state assembly and the Lok Sabha. Their argument was that the region covers more area, has a larger population, yet had fewer seats (37) in the assembly and (2) in the Lok Sabha, against 45 and 3, respectively, for the Valley.

“Set up a delimitation commission to redraw the boundaries of constituencies and increase the number of seats,” was their refrain. The state was excluded from the delimitation exercise undertaken a few years ago given its sensitive nature.

Representatives of the Sikh community raised the issue of safety and security of their community members staying in the Valley (numbering around 90,000), alleging that they were receiving threats from terror outfits for changing their religion.

Ladakhi groups, which called on the delegation, both in Srinagar and in Jammu, endorsed the demand for a UT status for their region.{this is a good move}

Meanwhile

Link

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Sep 2010 23:02

CRamS wrote:Chilling warning from TSPA/ISI through Madam

India must realise that it is only reaping the whirlwind of the atrocities it is committing in Kashmir. Not surprisingly, a number of Indians are beginning to frankly admit the fact that violence in India for instance, the Mumbai attacks, is directly linked with the Kashmir issue. The Indian ruling circles would be further endangering the lives of their countrymen as well as the people of the region by sticking to their stand that Kashmir is India’s integral part. A solution in line with the UNSC Resolutions must be found before it is too late.

They will always try to deflect the issue. The real problem is the partition of India and the violence unleashed by ML and Pakistan and the war started days after the independence.
After the wars there is no going back to UNSC since war has made all the agreement and understanding irrelevant. Breakup of Pakistan renders the 1947 version of Pakistan invalid.

Pakistan has unleashed wars all over India for the last 60 years and waht difference does it make for their claims after the attack in 2008.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 23 Sep 2010 23:34

Even the people who traditionally vote for NC in Jammu, don't support it's demand for autonomy and article 356.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 24 Sep 2010 00:54

jamwal wrote:A news article in Yahoo! saying that some Kashmiri Muslims have started migrating to safer places like Jammu )
Sorry for not being able to post the link.

Not just Jammu. I know several of them (especially Kashmiri women) who decided to
stay and marry locals in South India. They were quite fed up with the 'apple growers' insanity!
But for complaints of a hotter clime they seem to be doing quite well

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 24 Sep 2010 05:49

jamwal wrote:Even the people who traditionally vote for NC in Jammu, don't support it's demand for autonomy and article 356.

370 rite? must be reading a lot about emergency provisions

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 24 Sep 2010 07:09

115th birth anniversary of Maharaja Hari Singh celebrated

Senior BJP leader and MLA Jammu West, Prof Chaman Lal, while paying tributes to Maharaja at a function described him as great patriot. He said that Maharaja had to face many problems due to internal and external conspiracies. The biggest tragedy was that the same Maharaja was put in the exile, who had acceded his state to the Indian Union, by virtue of which J&K became legally an integral part of the country. He was the first prince who had pleaded for independence of India in the Round Table Conference held at London in 1930.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Sep 2010 08:55

From the Urdu press

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-a ... e/686887/3

Welcoming the visit of the all-party delegation of members of Parliament to Jammu and Kashmir, Hyderabad-based daily Siasat carried an editorial on September 22, saying: “There will be no immediate positive results of the delegation’s meeting with hardline leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani, moderate leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and JKLF leader Yasin Malik. But important members of the delegation have tried to give a good signal by meeting separatist leaders. It provided an opportunity to understand the present situation in the Valley and rally and sentiments of the people”.

The paper adds: “The reservations expressed by some members on the all-party delegation meeting with separatist leaders are regrettable. This delegation started from Delhi with completely sympathetic sentiments, but on reaching the Kashmir Valley, some members did not have even the least hesitation in expressing their prejudice. The Central government would regret the fact that it aborted its own efforts by including such leaders in the delegation.”

In an editorial on September 21, Rashtriya Sahara argued: “The visit to Geelani’s house by some members of the delegation and their meeting him can be described as an important step. But this visit to his house by only five of the 39-member delegation and the home minister’s non-inclusion (in this group) not only reduces the importance of this meeting but it also weakens the positive message that could have gone from this meeting with Geelani. That no responsible person of the government, not even P. Chidambaram himself, went there has sent a message that the Central government does not give much importance to this group in the process of finding a solution to the Kashmir problem.”

Delhi-based daily, Hindustan Express, in its editorial on September 20 says: “Geelani saying that no one put their finger on the real problem, of Kashmir’s azadi, indicates he harbours a distorted view, that India and leaders of Indian political parties can be cowed down due to the recent violence in Kashmir. If he thinks that the Indian government would bow down on its knees and present Kashmir to him on a platter, he should forget about it. The time for an obsession with azadi is over. India can’t talk to him while going out of the framework of the Constitution.”

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Sep 2010 11:19

The colour of 'Azaadi' cannot be green or saffron

The Pandits of the Kashmir valley, currently in exile, the Dogras and Muslims of Jammu, the Buddhists of Ladhakh, the Shias and Gujjars in different parts of the state have never been part of any Azaadi movement, let alone any Islamic Azaadi.

They, in fact, are fairly clear that they want greater integration with a secular India, let alone any loosening of ties. In fact, the greater the cry for Azaadi, the greater is the desire for integration in Jammu and Ladhakh.

So, what does Azaadi mean for them? It means the continued domination of valley politics and politicians over their affairs. It means the continued neglect of their areas, witnessed during the last 63 years. And, if Azaadi is Islamic, it means further discrimination and insecurity.

Finally and perhaps crucially, the demand for Azaadi if understood as freedom from India is clearly unacceptable to the India state. No government of India can accept the demand for Azaadi over the needs of atoot ang. The people of India would never spare such a government, whatever its shape and hue and whatever its majority.

So where does this leave the Azaadi debate?

The example of the 'raiders' in 1947 is clear proof that an Azaad or 'independent' Kashmir would not be able to survive or preserve its independence. Even Gilgit, which overthrew the Maharaja's rule on November 1, 1947 and declared itself independent, could remain so only for less than three weeks before Pakistan took control of the territory.

The colour of Azaadi cannot be green. The minorities would not accept it and it would mean the de-linking of Jammu and Ladakh from the valley.

Similarly, the colour of Azaadi cannot be saffron. The majority would not accept it. Only under the tiranga, a secular India, can the true essence of Kashmir flourish and prosper. It is here that their distinct cultural and ethnic identity would be preserved and strengthened.

Azaadi, too, cannot be accession to Pakistan. Barring a few die-hard votaries, no one in his right mind would think of joining Pakistan. Not only is there distrust of the Punjabi-Pathan elements, there is a realisation that Kashmir's cultural identity would have no chance of survival in a failing and increasingly Talibanised Pakistan.

Azaadi, therefore, has to be freedom from Pakistan, once and for all and freedom to enjoy what the other citizens of India take for granted.

But, there has to be a limit to what the Kashmiris think they can extract from India in the garb of Azaadi. Bargaining for concessions is a democratic right that all Indians enjoy, no less the Kashmiri. But where bargaining is perceived as blackmailing, and especially if it has an international dimension, then what gets compromised is the freedom to enjoy what others in India enjoy. It also undercuts support that other civil society members and political parties in India can offer.

At the same time, the government of India needs to treat the cry of Azaadi as a cry for justice, a cry to undo past wrongs, and above all, a cry to give the Kashmiris a stake and pride in India, rather than bullets and doles, an assurance that their identity would be as secure in India as is say the Tamil identity or the Marathi identity or the Bengali identity.

Very interesting article by this guy called Salim Haq...

Makes all the right noises ( actually reads like a BRF article) except the last 1-2 lines of the article. Hope that there are other KMs/IMs also thinking like him and not in terms of "muslim brotherhood" and stuff like the Deoband is doing..

The article also validates his point of Jammu people becoming more and more nationalist as the KMs communal cries grow shriller, if we go by the recent all-party visit where all Jammu based parties actually demanded 370 to be abolished etc.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Sep 2010 11:42

Here is how the mess in WKM kashmir valley all began, this time around.

rajmata and yuvraj to blame, fair and square.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/belat ... n/683656/0

Solidarity of youth

Coomi Kapoor
Tags : coomikapoor, column
Posted: Sun Sep 19 2010, 01:36 hrs

THE night before Omar Abdullah was sworn in as the new chief minister of J&K in January last year, his father had announced on television to an anchor, “You are speaking to the next chief minister”. The next day, however, in front of another TV channel, he did a somersault and declared he was handing over the baton to his son. Farooq appeared to have been persuaded by his wife Molly and Rahul Gandhi to give Omar a chance. Interestingly, during the present debate as to whether Omar should be removed as CM, two Kashmir Congress leaders and an important minister from Delhi who were in touch with Mufti Mohammed and Mehbooba, were keen to emphasise the governance deficit in Kashmir and deny that Rahul and Sonia had any role in Omar’s appointment. However, Rahul’s endorsement of Omar at his Kolkata press conference, belied their claims. The Gandhi and Abdullah families share a long history and the younger generation is not just in the same age group, but they have many common interests, including fast cars, motorbikes ,and video games.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 24 Sep 2010 12:04

Muslims flee Valley of stone-pelters

Sharing their miseries, the migrants tell their Kashmiri Hindu friends, who had migrated to Jammu 20 years ago: “Now we know why the Pandits fled and that too in the darkness of night.”

“I had to face stonethrowers almost every day...they would physically assault me. And the policemen would threaten me for driving during curfew,” said Mohammad Sultan, a driver with a government department who has shifted his family here.

“They all are looking after their (own) interests...not knowing the pain of the common people,” Sultan rued.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Sep 2010 17:36

Fanatic barbarian animals interfere as usual...

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg7_2

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Sep 2010 18:01

Pulikeshi wrote:
jamwal wrote:A news article in Yahoo! saying that some Kashmiri Muslims have started migrating to safer places like Jammu )
Sorry for not being able to post the link.
Not just Jammu. I know several of them (especially Kashmiri women) who decided to
stay and marry locals in South India. They were quite fed up with the 'apple growers' insanity!
But for complaints of a hotter clime they seem to be doing quite well

Hindus or Muslim ? Lots of Hindus are marrying outside their community but ever heard or saw the same by KMs. Skin colour is a major H&D issue for these guys.

Venkarl saar
Ooops. 370 onlee.

This is the Yahoo report I posted about earlier

Muslims migrating from Kashmir

Jammu, Sep 23 (IANS) Reminiscent of the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits from the valley in the early 1990s, Muslims caught this time between stone-throwers and security forces are moving from Srinagar to Jammu in the dark of the night.

Looks exactly like the one posted by Nihat

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 25 Sep 2010 07:12

After all-party bonhomie, Cong denounces Hurriyat

Congress on Friday denounced the separatist Hurriyat groups in the Valley for remaining silent over the absence of democracy and the poor state of development in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

Tiwari wondered why Pakistan had kept the occupied territory in a shroud of secrecy. "Journalists are not allowed inside occupied Kashmir, and in the Northern Areas, Chinese troops are present," he said quoting reports.

Responding to China's move to supply nuclear reactors to Pakistan, Tiwari said Beijing should have looked into Islamabad's track record as a nuclear proliferator and the "A Q Khan nuclear Walmart".

seems to be taking on every thing. is it only him or the official policy of the ruling party.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 25 Sep 2010 07:50

It seems there is a bit of lull going on post APD visit. Are the stone throwing terrorists and there masters waiting for UPA govt. concessions? Or just getting tired?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Sep 2010 08:53

Kashmir unrest India’s internal issue, says Obama Administration

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Kashm ... ion/687660

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Sep 2010 09:02

Kashmir: The Time Has Come
SEPTEMBER 30, 2010
Steve Coll

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... -has-come/

pro-Paki article

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Sep 2010 10:27

abhishek_sharma wrote:Kashmir: The Time Has Come
SEPTEMBER 30, 2010
Steve Coll

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... -has-come/

pro-Paki article

I couldn't read the entire article; its available for subscribers only. So what was his conclusion? Prima facie, with his reeling off all of India's faults, it does appear to be a pro-Paki piece.

Funny how all these gora journos suddenly discover their liberal, conscientious side when pompously talking about somebody else. I wonder if Steve Coll would preface reference to Iraq gang rape with something like this: US/UK invaded Iraq and killed 1000s of people to search for elusive WMD... Bloody self righteous farts.