Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 02 Jun 2011 10:45

I listened to both sections and I find little to blame JA for.

What you are missing is his point that while the RSS/ML may have been two ends of the same pole, their respective roles in their nations are poles apart. He rips apart all the TNT constructs, exposing TSP perfidy in many aspects: treatment of minorities, lack of land-reforms, the RAPE-feudal dominance, freedom of religion and above all their hypocritical concerns about IMs.

That he does that using the TSP narrative about RSS, makes the message a lot more effective. While he accepted the =/= of RSS/ML, he used that =/= to rip the TNT and TSP H&D a few new ones. The takleef being caused to the Paki were obvious.

On the contrary, if he had refused to accept the =/= the effectiveness of the message would have been significantly diluted in the eyes of the intended audience. JA displayed outstanding context sensitivity.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 02 Jun 2011 10:49

^^See the PBS Frontline Episode "Fighting For Bin Laden." Starts with a piece on a US trained Afghan militia known as "Khost Protection Force." Very, very anti-Paki, anti-ISI outfit...reminescent of Amrullah Saleh's outlook. I wonder if they are involved in this raid which killed 25 TSPA scum.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 02 Jun 2011 10:51

Rajdeep:

Is the specific use of Pakistani instead of the usual Asian an aberration or is that becoming the norm in UQ?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 02 Jun 2011 11:11

On Twitter:

There is good ISI and bad ISI... it(SSS Murder) must be the involvement of bad ISI

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 02 Jun 2011 11:33

SSridhar wrote:Pakistanis want more Islamization and in one go: Poll

Its like a drug addict who yearns for more Drugs even while lying on his death bed.

amit · Post by **amit** » 02 Jun 2011 11:47

VikramS wrote:On the contrary, if he had refused to accept the =/= the effectiveness of the message would have been significantly diluted in the eyes of the intended audience. JA displayed outstanding context sensitivity.

+1

Very well put. That's the point which is being missed here. If he had been apologetic or less caustic about RSS the bigger message, which IMO is that the Indian Muslims are the most free in the entire Muslim world - which is the biggest H&D kick that the Paki can get - was conveyed very forcefully with the example of Ahmediyyas being bought up by JA saab.

In a war one needs to choose one's weapons carefully.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 02 Jun 2011 11:48

From Haris Khan (.info)

Source(s) informed that:

* A third P-3C is damaged along with bullets and shrapnels wounds on two Z-9EC plus one Sea King damaged with tail rotor section blown apart.

* One PAC Mushaq belonging to Army has sustained bullet and shrapnel wounds also

* As of today there is still a lot of confusion on the number of terrorists entering, engaging in attack and firefight, dead, wounded and escaping.

* CCTV footage is studied by 'monkeys'

* CAA asked for 'black box' of the Orions that were destroyed. (this is really amazing with ROFL)

* There might be a civil war between navy, air force and army on runway of PNS Mehran and PAF Base Faisal since the blame game has just begun (This is a joke stated by the source(s)....)

Another person's view of the mood in LaWhore post SSS

Through sheer stupidity the establishment has managed to dig a deep hole for itself and if someone doesn't come clean then the military will lose all credibility with the masses. I didn't meet one person in Lahore today, civil or military, who wasn't devastated by the whole fiasco and who had any kind words for army or ISI. Unless the military makes a serious effort to come clean on this issue, it will lose all credibility with the masses and particularly with the intelligentsia.
I feel sick to my stomach personally and I have never known the city of Lahore to wear this sullen mournful look before. Not even when Data Saheb got attacked by suicide bombers.

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Jun 2011 11:51

Vikram yes JA did well as far as the interview is concerned however it helps to be aware of the fact that he believes in what he said about the RSS otherwise too. He is after all a member of sabrang communications and other pseudo-secular orgs .

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Jun 2011 11:51

* A third P-3C is damaged along with bullets and shrapnels wounds on two Z-9EC plus one Sea King damaged with tail rotor section blown apart.

So, 6 aircraft in total received "wounds"?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Jun 2011 11:52

It is not about the religion for Pakistani
They want power and want to dominate the region. They also want to create the large global Islamic power center and own the muslim world. The delusion is bigger

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Jun 2011 11:55

Wow Sea King is as good as the two orions i.e. going to 'moongfaliwallah' (peanut seller), Bakis cant make it fly by themselves.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 02 Jun 2011 12:01

VikramS wrote:Rajdeep:

Is the specific use of Pakistani instead of the usual Asian an aberration or is that becoming the norm in UQ?

It seems this has been happening for some recent months where there have been reports about Paki men being named as sexual offenders.

First was the report on the sexual exploitation of white girls by these men.(sikh and hindu girls are a victim too as was added by the community representatives in UK) by Jack Straw who is not a right wing EDL type his exact words were "easy meat".

Second was the report on inbreeding among pakis in UK by Phil Woolas, an environment minister.

And there was also a mention of a Paki Elvis stalking a granddaughter of JF Kennedy in USA.

The honorable mention of the land of the Pure in mainstream media seems like a recent phenomenon instead of hiding behind the regular south east asian or immigrant garb.
Maybe some one who is following UK media or even worldwide media for a longer duration can throw a better light on this.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 02 Jun 2011 12:10

Narad wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Pakistanis want more Islamization and in one go: Poll
Its like a drug addict who yearns for more Drugs even while lying on his death bed.

No matter what happens in Pakistan (or any of these countries), the reputation of Islam itself will always stay spotlessly clean. Ultimately it is the staff of life from them, the society might have a serious breakdown if this cognitive dissonance were to be resolved, a people suddenly bereft of all purpose.

I mean the Western countries experienced this same cognitive dissonance wrt Christianity and had to resolve it. Let us see if they can manage it.

Rajiv Lather · Post by **Rajiv Lather** » 02 Jun 2011 12:24

Think it is time for me to shut up. But would like to draw attention to something:

the Americans show this strange behavior - it is ok for lies, back-stabbing etc as long as matter concerned remains in the realm of espionage, even if general public is aware of it. But all bets are off once it becomes officially 'public'.

After Abbotabad it is payback time for 9/11. Americans dont do things in half measures, once they make up their mind they go all the way.

And add to this the fact that ISI/TSPA have been too successful - their success has exceeded their own expectations.

Added later: All those who think Americans are still playing India == Pak look at the David Headley trial. This is now America's war. Sit back and enjoy.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 02 Jun 2011 12:33

Rajiv Lather ji:

I have always wondered why the TSP got off so easy for 9/11. And the US hasn't really held anyone responsible in the truest sense. Too many Americans have been killed and hundreds of billions spent trying to keep up this major non-NATO ally facade. The Dead, the Dollars, and the Duplicity needs to be avenged.

PS: Hamid Gul has postulated the 3-Ds for dealing with the US: Defiance, Deterrence and Dialog.

Kanishka · Post by **Kanishka** » 02 Jun 2011 12:40

Hamid Mir talks to a guy who claims to know the people behind Mehran attack.
Says PA and Navy personnel are involved.
This guy also claims that the next target is "American Flights" in and out of Chakla airbase.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-UIaVjo ... re=related

Added later:
Pakis are taking the threat seriously.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/06/02/chaklala ... alert.html

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2011 12:51

Rajiv Lather wrote:All those who think Americans are still playing India == Pak look at the David Headley trial. This is now America's war.

If wishes were horses...
Rajiv-ji, the july deadline given out by the US should have been the kind of thing they should have done in the weeks following 9/11.
They are doing this ONE DECADE later!

In the interim, we have seen possibly some of the most gullible actions being taken.

Didn't the US understand what Pakistan really is? I don't thing that their eyes and ears were not keeping their leadership duly informed.

This was deliberate action of keeping Pakistan as a close ally, of nurturing it to good health. One can understand that at the policy making level, people can be 'moved' by pronouncements by the likes of musharraf from pakistan - a nation that they had a great history with.

I think that massa leadership was too trusting of the pakistanis.

Now, I have my fingers crossed. I hope things actually happen. I am not 100% sure they will happen the right and the just way though.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 02 Jun 2011 13:00

Pakistan: 58 die in militant-security border clash

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Jun 2011 13:02

This guy also claims that the next target is "American Flights" in and out of Chakla airbase.

Rushing to the nearest pop-corn store to stock up on snacks before festivities begin...

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Jun 2011 13:04

kmkraoind wrote:Pakistan: 58 die in militant-security border clash

Something seems BS here...

Cant believe 35 Afghan miscreants can be hallaled for just 20 odd FC men, knowing the skills of the FC folk ( it was not even "well trained" TSPA which was attacked)...Not possible unless massive artillery/air strikes were used against the Afghans.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 02 Jun 2011 13:10

Suppiah wrote:The only way to stop this would be to stop soldiers from growing long beards - now how can a army that has official motto of jihad do that?

How can this be, the Jernails are all clean shaven wisky dirnking sikular men. So why is the file of the force allowed to grow a beard.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2011 13:12

sum wrote:
kmkraoind wrote:Pakistan: 58 die in militant-security border clash
Something seems BS here...

Cant believe 35 Afghan miscreants can be hallaled for just 20 odd FC men, knowing the skills of the FC folk ( it was not even "well trained" TSPA which was attacked)...Not possible unless massive artillery/air strikes were used against the Afghans.

Exactly
The likely figures would likely be
FC:20 KIA
Talibs: 2-5 KIA
Innocent Bystanders/civilians caught in the crossfire: 40-45

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 02 Jun 2011 13:15

Didn't the US understand what Pakistan really is? I don't thing that their eyes and ears were not keeping their leadership duly informed.

Of course they did and did'nt. Remember Nixon-Kissinger duo, how they ridiculed Archer and the US Ambassadors to India. Archer had to send the famous Blood telegram. Nixon referred to Indians as crafty, cunning, Indira as a witch. These were not US impressions, they genuinely believed the Paki version of events. Krishna Menons' sanctimonious hour long sermons in the UN did'nt help either.

Remember Reagan introducing Benazir as the PM of India? Asked for clarification, Reagan explained, that before the joint conference BB was only talking of India all the time, so the inadvertant slip.

The first term of Bush was full of Cold war SD guys, Rummy, Powell and so on. Even reports on the Pak-NK-Libya nexus till 911 were not mainstream, they were India inspired fringe bordering on CT stuff in the aam Joe's scheme of things in the US. So the US SD could continue with fooling the aam Joe wahat a good ally the Paks were. TO do that they had to buy Paki propaganda against India and disseminate it.

Bush's 2nd term changed things a lot. Bush used his own gut feeling and realized the Paki perfidy to an extent. The nuke deal and removal of Indian companies from the Entities list was really GWBs way of making amends. The Nuke deal was forced by Bush on recalcitrant US Govt officials. Bush armtwisted world leaders including Chinese to get things through.

Now the realization has slipped through they are dealing with a nest of vipers, cobra's and Kraits. The dawning that if the AQ is the viper maybe the King Cobra is the ISI..this judgement is making way to aam Joe like the Fleece article. What the SD and Real politik experts like Kissinger etc could'nt make a proper judgement in 50 years the aam Joe has started judging correctly. Thats whats making the difference. JMT/

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Jun 2011 14:29

From here

Any deal, the cable implied, could only come after a go-ahead from the army: “The most telling signpost indicating the GOI is preparing the country for [a deal] would be Gen Singh publicly adopting a neutral (or supportive) position on a Siachen deal to signal in advance that the Army is on board, and that the GOI no longer needs to point to Army concerns to explain why a deal is not possible.”This pressure is seen as holding back Prime Minister Singh, who is described as being in favour of a deal — former National Security Adviser M. K. Narayan tells American officials in May 2005 that “the PM had instructed all his subordinates that ‘we need to accept Musharraf’s bona fides, even on Siachen’ … With this guidance in mind, the Ministry of Defence has been instructed ‘to take as flexible a position as possible’”.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 02 Jun 2011 14:54

Gagan wrote: The likely figures would likely be
FC:20 KIA
Talibs: 2-5 KIA
Innocent Bystanders/civilians caught in the crossfire: 40-45

Either that or the 200 from Afghan is the invented part to restore the H&D of the cannon fodder and do a == with Afghanistan as a side bonus. Why would Afghan taliban attack TSPA who are their comrades in arms?

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 02 Jun 2011 14:55

hnair wrote:I think Onions with phyjjicks packages are being confused on the roles they can play - between counter-force vs counter-value. Most of the folks here talking about Onions sneaking into India and dropping he packages are talking about the latter. That possibility is highly unlikely, as ramanaji has already pointed out. They have better capability delivery mechanisms than a slow moving plane.

But an Indian SSBN with its current "thinner missile" loadout needs to be near the paki waters to "touch" their northern counter value targets. So in essence this could be their equivalent of NASR in naval arena. Figure a way to triangulate the SSBN (via agosta, rigged up fishing trawlers, drop sonars etc) and pepper the area with a phyjicks package or two. No one can blame them, as they have the same excuse as NASR "we used the nukes in our own territorial waters against invading Indian forces"

The way out is to follow the soviet model of launching from sanitized sea-air space. ie, an "aviation cruiser" led group accompanies the SSBN and swats out the onions or other lurkers to create a bigger space for the SSBN to operate in peace. But that would have its own headache in the matter of time element and positioning etc. again purely FWIW. I dont think the thin ladies might be working out as expected, unless it has more range than publicised or maybe has a more conventional role like hystrike concept.

Why would India use ssbn @ this point against tsp? we have got other delivery options besides getting our first nuke sub close to porkiland waters . We are more likely to use land based brahmos and other systems for conventional use. besides airstrikes on their target. and why would we use ssbns for conventional delivery ? too expensive.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 02 Jun 2011 15:03

NRao wrote:The situation will get worse.

1) The number of infiltrators will increase. It will reach a critical mass, at which point in time they will tip the balance in favor of a rigid, predictable, Islamic terrorist group
2) At the same time their competency will also become a challenge. Their use of more and more sophisticated technologies will pose a problem
3) Strange as it may sound, Pakistan will actually need to re-route much of her resources gathered to be used against India to track and deal with yahoos that threaten the very people that wanted to threaten India. My feel is that this will become the classic lower-people vs. the higher-ups.
4) external entities will track this entire drama and try and keep a lid on the cooking material. Intervention is guaranteed. If the jihadics appear to be winning then it is a foregone conclusion. If the high-ups get the upper hand, since they have no support from down below, intervention will be needed just to keep the nation afloat

JMTs

irsha allah

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 02 Jun 2011 15:14

Pratyush wrote:
Suppiah wrote:The only way to stop this would be to stop soldiers from growing long beards - now how can a army that has official motto of jihad do that?

How can this be, the Jernails are all clean shaven wisky dirnking sikular men. So why is the file of the force allowed to grow a beard.

Wondering how the training for spot-the-militant session will go

General: Abduls, now we teach you how to identify militants and not mix them up with others..first clue is they are very pious, grow beards, pray all the time and speak of global jihad in the path shown by rasool..
Sipahi Abdul: Well that covers about 80% of our barracks jarnail-saab..
General: They kill women and children..
Abdul 2: Like we were asked to in lal masjid, Balochistan and elsewhere? We are much better at it! We just finished off some Chechen women that were not even armed!
General: And they dont wear uniform when they go on attacks..
Abdul 3: Thats what we did in Kargil
General: They try to divide Muslims into sects and kill Muslims
Abdul 4: Isn't that the official policy of our pure state? Or can I tell my Ahmediya friend he is now free to practice his religion and join the army?
General: They take money from Kufrs and use that against Muslims
Abdul 5: Are you referring to American money given to our army top brass?
General: They are yeevil..they drink alcohol and do drugs
Abdul 6: Kill this General...

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 02 Jun 2011 15:25

^^^

Suphanalla

I hope this gets up on our blog.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 02 Jun 2011 15:27

Bin Laden raid gets little credence in conspiracy-minded Pakistan

"I will put my hand on the Koran and swear Bin Laden was not here!" Nasir Khan, a 32-year-old farmer, shouted from the driver's seat of his white van. "The U.S. wants to create another Afghanistan here. And the Pakistani government plays along. They don't care about the people's welfare. They just take whatever money they can get from the U.S.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 02 Jun 2011 15:29

The more time you spend thinking on why the USG is so loathe to see Pakistan for what it is and do what is best for the US and the world by taking Pakistan down, it is evident that there is no real reason to support Pakistani existence. Yet they do it. Why?

In the absence of any other convincing reason, it seems to me that the US is a willing partner to every crime committed by Pakistan against India. Sometimes they have turned Nelson's eye, sometimes they have condoned them, and sometimes dare I say, even encouraged them (in 1971 for example). They have a lot to hide themselves.

They are so neck deep into this for all these years, that they cannot afford the collapse of Pakistan for that will expose the US themselves. The USG has created this monster and has been a willing if not active accomplice in Pakistan's vicious attacks on India. That is why it has to protect this entity called Pakistan at all costs.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 02 Jun 2011 15:58

Acharya,

>>They want power and want to dominate the region. They also want to create the large global Islamic power center and own the muslim world. The delusion is bigger

This is absolutely on the money. This is what the "West" generally find hard to believe, that this hopelessly deluded and incompetent mercenary state can have ambitions "beyond its station". However, the reality is being internalised, force fed by the jihadis in and out of uniform, but it is being internalised. The CIA, which is very much on the frontline in ALL respects, has been the first to realise and act upon it... And Foggy Bottom, true to name, will probably be the last to get it.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 02 Jun 2011 16:01

sum wrote:
kmkraoind wrote:Pakistan: 58 die in militant-security border clash
Something seems BS here...

Cant believe 35 Afghan miscreants can be hallaled for just 20 odd FC men, knowing the skills of the FC folk ( it was not even "well trained" TSPA which was attacked)...Not possible unless massive artillery/air strikes were used against the Afghans.

You know what I think, an US trained Afghan Militia attacked the border posts, killed 20+ Paki soldiers and 35 Militants and then went back across the border.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 02 Jun 2011 16:10

JE Menon wrote:The CIA, which is very much on the frontline in ALL respects, has been the first to realise and act upon it... And Foggy Bottom, true to name, will probably be the last to get it.

CIA caught it first, Whitehouse picked on it (increase in Dronacharya target practice and Raymond Davis types), Hillary Clinton and NSA folks (3000+ covert army - Bob Woodward describes these in his book) and slowly State Dept Mandarins are catching on.. last but not the least, the mainstream press is catching the drift.. hence the subtle shift in reporting...

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 02 Jun 2011 16:11

and i forgot... congress too has woken up... maybe faster than state Dept... I saw them grilling 2 joint/under secretaries from SD and DOD for some appropriation for GWOT on CSPAN, man those two were really squirming...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 02 Jun 2011 16:36

Gagan wrote:The good maulana says
uske kapdon me se uski pindaliyon ka gooda tak nazar ayega
Someone really well versed in punjabi / urdu please explain the words:
Pindaliyon & Gooda.

Gooda I think == mound.
Or is Gooda in urdu ~ Gode in hindi, meaning uterus.

The mulla is even more descriptive here, downright poetic description of the female anatomy. AND he attributes this description to the Prophet.
I don't think that this maulana made all this up, this is something that has been passed down from generations.

A village is called Pind in punjabi.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jun 2011 16:49

every major airport in India was swept by security teams multiple times yesterday. an additional platoon of armed reserve police deployed into BIAL yesterday.

someone phoned in saying a woman suicide bomber was on the prowl.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 02 Jun 2011 16:52

The Maulana's poetic descriptions, even without granting any poetic license, are firmly rooted in scriptures..he cannot make things up as that would constitute wajib-ul-qatl.

http://chekdamize.wordpress.com/2011/02 ... an-hadith/

Here is the proof....it is all there with verse numbers etc. including the basis of the 100 men-strength claim...and this is NOT a website setup by anti-Islamic westeners.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 02 Jun 2011 16:57

Suppiah wrote:
Wondering how the training for spot-the-militant session will go

General: Abduls, now we teach you how to identify militants and not mix them up with others..first clue is they are very pious, grow beards, pray all the time and speak of global jihad in the path shown by rasool..
Sipahi Abdul: Well that covers about 80% of our barracks jarnail-saab..
General: They kill women and children..
Abdul 2: Like we were asked to in lal masjid, Balochistan and elsewhere? We are much better at it! We just finished off some Chechen women that were not even armed!
General: And they dont wear uniform when they go on attacks..
Abdul 3: Thats what we did in Kargil
General: They try to divide Muslims into sects and kill Muslims
Abdul 4: Isn't that the official policy of our pure state? Or can I tell my Ahmediya friend he is now free to practice his religion and join the army?
General: They take money from Kufrs and use that against Muslims
Abdul 5: Are you referring to American money given to our army top brass?
General: They are yeevil..they drink alcohol and do drugs
Abdul 6: Kill this General...

Superb !

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 02 Jun 2011 17:06

Suppiah wrote:We have to grant a long rope to Javed-saab. After all as a die hard leftist he will say what he said. But the fact is the bald headed Pakbarian jehadi terroist idiot whose hair probably occupies the space the brain should have, was defending the indefensible and was shown as such. He was trying to argue that only hindus are communal whereas they are perfectly normal. Javed demolished that argument.

Suppiah saheb,

JA is talking to specific audience from the safety of Bharat. He need not to be afraid to call a spade a spade. Even then he brings in unnecessary == that too his ummah audience. You gotta see the messenger, message, and audience to see thru the nonsense.

The question is can JA said what he said about Pakis and Islamists without bringing in RSS? If yes, why didn't he?