Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions

sohels · Post by **sohels** » 03 Feb 2012 02:47

French Rafale UAE deal back on-report - Reuters

Speaking after the India announcement, French Defence Minister Gerard Longuet hinted there could be more deals ahead.

"Good news are like worries, they fly in squadrons," he said. "That (deal) is the start of a squadron of good news."

A French win in the UAE could also lead to further contracts in the Gulf Arab region which shares the West's concerns that Iran is using its nuclear energy programme to develop weapons, a charge Tehran has denied. Saudi Arabia inked a deal for U.S. arms worth nearly $60 billion a year ago.

Qatar, a close French ally, said last year it wanted to replace its fleet of Mirage fighter jets during 2012 possibly buying 24 to 36 units. Kuwait in 2010 said it was also considering buying Rafales to replace its ageing Mirage fleet.

According to analysts the Gulf countries are looking to have the same aircraft for inter-operability reasons as well as differentiating themselves from Gulf power house Saudi Arabia, which uses U.S. Boeing-built F-15s.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 03 Feb 2012 03:11

and from where this attack of US Airforce will come? from their 11 AC ships stationed in Bay of Bengal and Arabian Sea or from Diago Garsia? May be from Gulf bases or you want Unkil to attack us from Paki land or even from Tibet?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Feb 2012 03:18

Badar and others have made a very important point,in that we should not view the Rafale,Typhoon ,etc. as isolated mano-a-mano duellists against US or other fighters.While the MMRCA's evaluation determined which is the best for our requirements, in the US's 21st century's RMA,NCW (with its plethora of specialised EW assets) determines which asset is best placed to prosecute/execute a specified mission.We have thus had brutally demonstrated in the US's recent wars in Iraq,Afghanistan and lately in Libya,massive salvoes of Tomahawk missiles fired from submarines and warships against vital targets,safely out of range of enemy defences,which would've endangered manned aircraft on bombing runs for the same purpose.Vulnerability of manned aircraft is spurring on frantic development of a variety of UCAVs all over the world too,with long endurance,stealthy capabilities to complement manned missions.This ability of the aircraft to seamlessly be part of a greater war machine was perhaps one major technical reason why the Russian bird,despite its incomparable aerobatic qualities,was found wanting.

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 03 Feb 2012 03:54

Firstly, why is it that we keep talking about hostilities with the US. It is in the interest of neither to get into a conflict and there are no indications of that happening, both are democracies and have much to gain from each other. Thats said, any war with the US is a war to the end. It is ridiculous and sheer stupidity to think of wars with the likes of US and Russia. lets no waste forum space here, we're discussing the Katrina, who happens to be one fine beauty.

I am happy we are nearing a decision and if 80 aircraft are to be bought from the US, well so be it, it is for IAF to decide. IAF has taken wise decisions lately and I have no doubt that they will continue to do so.

We have to work with the US and we are not jumping into quick friendships, rather we are taking it step by step which wll help cement all weather ties. As long as we are close to Russia, US and EU, we have little to worry about. India can chart its own course and our own vibrant economy, massive stake in the planet's future will bring our old and new friends closer.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Feb 2012 04:29

^^^^^^

Here is an example ..................

Feb 2, 2012 :: Art of deal-making,by Bharat Karnad

.........................................

It leads one to wonder if the reluctance of the US government to part with source codes, flight control laws, and other super-sensitive information as part of a comprehensive transfer of technology deal — one of the reasons for rejecting the US aircraft, could have been moderated by carefully cultivating strategically important US senators and congressmen, and orchestrating sufficient pressure from the Capitol Hill. A senior official of an US aerospace major, speaking to me on the sidelines of the conference, emphatically suggested as much. Indeed, he went on to castigate both the US government for imposing a ceiling on technologies that could be sold to India, and the Indian government for quietly accepting these limits instead of forcefully using the “leverage” India has to insist, demand, and otherwise extract more advanced technology than what US companies are permitted to sell.

He further averred that India did not quite appreciate the leverage it has. Riled by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) consortium (Eurofighter) and Dassault Avions (Rafale) not being similarly constrained, the US aviation industry official stated unequivocally that American aerospace companies would willingly sell sophisticated technology, source codes and all, to India; the trick, he said, lay in Delhi mounting sustained government-to-government pressure on Washington in tandem with the Indian embassy channelling to important US legislators election campaign funds generated by politically active and wealthy non-resident Indians and NRI associations in America.

There will always be some payoffs from such pressure tactics. But the US government does not, on principle, allow even its closest Nato allies to access its cutting-edge technologies, so India stands little chance, realistically, of doing so, no matter what’s at stake and how much it is willing to put out. In the event, a far better way to reap technology benefits is to do so indirectly, by mining the American military’s incomparable operational experience with advanced systems and its high-tech savvy.

In fact, the US armed services’ eagerness to render this sort of assistance is reflected in a pioneering venture involving the naval variant of the Tejas. The Indian Navy had reportedly considered consulting with EADS and Dassault in areas such as determining the location of the arrester hook-landing system, ways to test this system, “aerodynamic fixes” to improve carrier takeoff and landing, optimising landing gear design to handle larger operating weight, integrating operational payload, reduction of aircraft weight, selecting an alternative engine for a better power-to-weight ratio, etc. The US Navy, which has the most extensive carrier aviation experience, was finally approached for advice.

The Indian Navy’s gambit paid off. Its Letter of Request, while occasioning a short but intense debate in the Office of the US Chief of Naval Operations, elicited a positive response. A Letter of Agreement and consultancy contract soon followed, and veteran US naval aviators, deputed for the job, began working seamlessly on the Light Combat Aircraft many months back. The reason for the success of this scheme, according to a Pentagon officer, was that all relevant decisions on the Indian side — from initial contact, drafting the consultancy contract, to payments and arrangements for hosting the American naval aviators — emanated from a single source, the officer heading the programme, Commodore C.D. Balaji, with the redtape-inclined defence ministry having no role.

Given its success, this seems an excellent means of encouraging high-value, home-grown, military R&D projects and enabling them to gain from practical knowledge and hands-on expertise transferred by stalwarts of the US forces. It is a model Air Force and Army will do well to emulate: create a stake in, and take charge of, projects that will produce in-country worthwhile military hardware.

One of the more practical, positive articles in a long time.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Feb 2012 04:59

Indian decision make sure tthat French and Russian remain independent players in the market. Now , if European have any sense, they need to kick out UQ out of EADS and merge it with Dassault to end AS leverage on them. Going by the remarks in QU newsppers, QU destiny is to be exclusively controlled by under Brit India company with Poaqs working as street Chawkidars hired by the Corporation.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Feb 2012 05:01

NRao, I dont know about that. Indian military is not ready for politico-military diplomacy. And I dont like US NRIs lobbying for India for that might make them suspect in the local eyes. So far they have been a model minority. Yes some claim access and reap illusory benefits.

Diplomatic realtions should be between governments and handled by diplomats for long term benefits.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Feb 2012 05:38

ramana wrote:NRao, I dont know about that. Indian military is not ready for politico-military diplomacy. And I dont like US NRIs lobbying for India for that might make them suspect in the local eyes. So far they have been a model minority. Yes some claim access and reap illusory benefits.

Diplomatic realtions should be between governments and handled by diplomats for long term benefits.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying - I do not see any thrust towards a "politico-military diplomacy".

He/others - IMHO - is/are making two points:

1) That the Indian govt can be a lot more potent than its current behavior (but, I guess the dynamics of the present set up is not good for such things?) = political, and
2) There are alternatives that India has and can explore = military R&D (not necessarily the military itself). The example he gives (tail-hook) is real tiny in nature, but, again given the dynamics, it is a start - if the story is true, then the Naval Tejas has clearly benefited from the collaboration.

Clearly the GOTUS is not ready to part with what EADS/France is willing to part with - that is for sure (one of the reasons why the F-1X lost). But clearly there alternatives that Indian defcom can explore and get value out of it.

Politics and military should be separate, but can work together to get things done. (And may I add that GoI needs to get out of the Indo-Soviet ............ errrrr Russia rut?

)

I have not thought nor researched this idea, but clearly there is scope down that path.

It does tickle me pink to think that that hook has something to do with the US. And that in the future a good number of LCAs will maintain peace in the region. (How about that for a political statement?)

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Feb 2012 05:44

Diplomatic realtions should be between governments and handled by diplomats for long term benefits

Precisely. GoI should have put enormous pressure on the GOTUS to part with the source code - the long term benefit.

That is what BK is saying when he says cultivate the political aspect of the GOTUS.

I think we are on the same page.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Feb 2012 06:21

Though OT, I would like to add a liner. I think:-

USNRIS ≡ LOCALMUTUS.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 03 Feb 2012 06:37

This is a good news!! when is contract getting its autographs?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 03 Feb 2012 06:43

With defence purchases on the rise, the policy on offsets calls for clarity
Economic Times

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 03 Feb 2012 06:47

Bomb bays to Delhi
Economist

Now Dassault must seal the contract with India in a series of detailed negotiations over technology transfer and other conditions. India is known for switching to other bidders before finally signing a contract. “The Indians will now squeeze the French hard,” says an executive on the Typhoon side. That said, India has used Dassault’s Mirage jets for many years, and last year signed a $2.4 billion deal with Dassault, Thales and MBDA, two other French defence firms, to upgrade its French planes.

For the Eurofighter consortium the Indian deal is crucial too. David Cameron, Britain’s prime minister, said this week that the Typhoon is “far better” than the Rafale. Sales of the Typhoon, which went into service in 2004, have disappointed. The Eurofighter member governments (Germany, Britain, Italy and Spain) have all ordered planes, but only Austria and Saudi Arabia have bought them from outside the group.

Eurofighter may now lower its price to rejoin the bidding for India’s contract. It may also offer India the carrot of equal status as a partner in the programme, alongside the four European nations. Eurofighter says it will be helped by what is turning out to be a transparent procurement process. Whereas previous Indian arms deals have been dogged by accusations of corruption, this one has so far been exemplary, says an executive involved.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Feb 2012 06:50

Yes, the eurofighters are right in saying they are not still out of the competition. The ministry can call them to match if negotiations fail with L1.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Feb 2012 07:11

^^^It depends on what India's contract laws are. Sometimes, a bidder may appear with lower initial price, but then charge more over the life of support. Yes, the French could have done that from the beginning, but both of them had that chance. The EF group knew their base price was higher than the Rafael, but did not nothing to be competitive. If indeed the EF was $5 million more, then for 126 aircraft, they lost the contract for $630 million or about 2.1% of the total value of $30 billion.

Now, we bash the MoD babus, but in this case the procurement officials in the MoD did a fantastic job. I will be the first here to give a vote of confidence and thanks to these officials. The rule of law has been followed and democracy is supreme and it stands in stark contrast to what the Koreans, Japanese and Saudis have recently done with their respective recent fighter aircraft purchase. That being - they made a political decision in favor of the US, not a technical one, and one not necessarily in the best interests of their tax payers.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Feb 2012 07:33

AoA: Mort, the way you present it appears MoD gets all the cake for doing the paper work with the help of some cute young cats., and IAF after going through the most toughest 643 parameters comparison test reports now look pale against your MoD praise!

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 03 Feb 2012 07:47

Britain disregarding its own laws.
http://www.wdm.org.uk/trade/aid-meant-a ... ghter-jets

The news that the Indian government might choose to buy French fighter jets instead of British Typhoon jets should have nothing to do with the UK’s development aid. But thanks to comments from development minister Andrew Mitchell, aid has become entangled in the media story about the arms trade.

Really? So is it OK, Mr Mitchell, to use aid as a tool to help sell weapons?

No, it’s not OK, and it’s also illegal. The World Development Movement’s exposé of the Pergau dam affair back in 1994 prompted a judicial review that made this emphatically clear.

The UK government had planned to spend £234 million of aid money on the Pergau Dam project in Malaysia, as a sweetener to encourage the Malaysian government to buy arms from British companies. The World Development Movement took the government to court and won, and this landmark case made it clear that UK law does not allow aid to be used as a political tool.

The law hasn’t changed, and the only legal purpose of aid is still to alleviate poverty and promote the welfare of the recipient country’s people.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 03 Feb 2012 08:00

A simple matter of buying a fighter jet

Successful execution of even relatively simple tasks eludes India. Its Great Power ambitions are way out of line from its abilities today

Siddharth Singh - LiveMint editorial

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Feb 2012 08:01

nawabs wrote:Britain disregarding its own laws.
http://www.wdm.org.uk/trade/aid-meant-a ... ghter-jets

from 'britannia rules the waves' to 'britannia waives rules'

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 03 Feb 2012 08:05

nukavarapu wrote:
Fidel Guevara wrote: If we are in a position where the US imposes long-term military sanctions on India, then the sh!t has truly hit the geostrategic fan, and we have much more major problems to deal with, i.e. an upcoming war with the US. If that is the case, whether we have 126 Rafale or 126 Eurofighter or 126 F18...we are anyway looking at 126 minutes life expectancy for the entire IAF fleet.
And please don't have any doubt in your mind that in that 126 minutes we will take down with us the 80% of the world's strongest air force. The remaining 20% will be taken care by Pandas and the Bears. So us getting attacked by any of the world's greatest power out there, will be a suicide for them. Are we now done with lungi shiver and khan a$$ licking ???

If you read the previous posts, all I am saying is that we should keep all options on the table, and for the follow-on order of 80 (if that materializes) should consider Khan planes as well. I understand a hybrid air force has additional logistics costs, but we are anyway operating one of the most hybrid air forces in the world. In biology, a hydrid variant is usually not as good as a pure, purpose-designed breed, for a specific purpose, but is usually stronger across a wider variety of environments.

My point about Khan sanctions is that there will be no sanctions, not with the level of inter-connection between our economies. And if there are international sanctions, then we are in a different world from today, and in a lot of trouble.

OT/: 187 F22 already in service with Khan . 80% down ? You added a zero by error, methinks? As to how such a war would be fought, and from which bases, BRF is not the forum for this discussion. Take it to the Paki boards, and scroll down to the link below "Switzerland-Mongolia Naval War scenarios". /OT.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Feb 2012 08:16

Sai-baba,

There was no intention of demeaning the work of the IAF or the services, they've done a great job as always, this time the ball was in the MoD procurement officials court and they did it right. Its not often when they do, but they did it right this time and the final proof of the pudding will be the award of the contract to Dassault for 126+ Rafael, munitions, spares, logistics support, training, ToT and warranty. We would like to see this done well before 15 August 2012.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Feb 2012 08:38

shukla wrote:A simple matter of buying a fighter jet

Successful execution of even relatively simple tasks eludes India. Its Great Power ambitions are way out of line from its abilities today

Siddharth Singh - LiveMint editorial

SaiK, Here is an example of RNI =MUTU.

The guy wants India to tweak the MRCA for futuristic 2020 needs! Same article he says original need was stated in 2001. By 2012 India chose the Rafale. He wants India to have included 5th gen requirements on this procurement.

You know who he wants to bat for.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Feb 2012 09:20

This Indian choice of Rafale is showing as the Hindi song says:

"kaun, kaun kitna paani!"

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 03 Feb 2012 09:39

I love the choice.. It has given a clear road for our future ToT and R&D, now every Foreign company will know before any deal with India what they should look into.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Feb 2012 09:42

I am eagerly awaiting the next phase when dassault-IAF will freeze on the architecture and equipment for tranche1 of our order. I am sure it will be fitted with the kitchen sink considering entering our service in 2015.

if there's an a/c to go deep into defended airspace, strike hard, without khanate style 3D third-party support.

the rafale-MKI combo finally opens up depth buildup/logistical areas in tibet, yunnan and baluchistan to our claws.

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 03 Feb 2012 09:58

nukavarapu wrote:
Fidel Guevara wrote:
OT/: 187 F22 already in service with Khan . 80% down ? You added a zero by error, methinks? As to how such a war would be fought, and from which bases, BRF is not the forum for this discussion. Take it to the Paki boards, and scroll down to the link below "Switzerland-Mongolia Naval War scenarios". /OT.
Shows your level of ignorance. I guess you are too much into khan propaganda. 187 of F22s are going to take out all the Indian Airforce shows who has come from the Paki boards. Only they have these wet dreams when khan is going to gift them 100 22s which they will use to show the yevil yindoos their right place. No matter what your previous posts say, you don't have the right to determine what does IAF hold and their capability. Remember we are just arm chair generals here and before posting $hitty comments like that, keep in mind that nobody is going to tolerate your ignorant views about the capability of IAF.

Added Later:

The interesting part is a poster by the handle created from the names of two famous Cuban revolutionaries who are completely anti-khan, is trying to prove the greatness of Khan.

No. No. Yes followed by no. Yes, agree. Yes, but nor do you. Yes, followed by immature personal attacks not deserving of reply, and most likely posted with an exagerrated sense of personal knowledge/capabilities/credentials.

'Tolerate'? When did you get to be a mod, buddy boy?

Added later:

Actually I picked my handle after two big Wall Street bankers (Scott Fidel of Deutsche Bank, and Drew Guevara of Morgan Stanley).

manum · Post by **manum** » 03 Feb 2012 10:17

^^^yeah yeah...blah blah blah...aabra ka dabra...go to toy store and build IAF of your choice...

vic · Post by **vic** » 03 Feb 2012 10:30

If the reports that Rafale is 20% cheaper is correct then it would mean that EF will have to lower price by say 30% to come back into consideration, which I don't see happening. Also US can be spoil sport by offering F-35 officially but F-35 continues to suffer deals & price rise, so that is also little difficult. Dassault can off course muck it up by playing hard ball in contract negotiations

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Feb 2012 10:48

vic wrote:Also US can be spoil sport by offering F-35 officially but F-35 continues to suffer deals & price rise, so that is also little difficult

More than the above there are more important reason not to go with front line fighter of American origin.
1. Their propensity for imposing sanctions.
2. All the onerous and intrusive agreements like EUMA, etc.
3. The level of TOT, given that most of it is denied to partner countries.
4. Strategic content of the French deal (Across the board civil nuclear cooperation including ENR tech)
5. Our 5th gen fighter is already in development via the Russian JV

SriSri · Post by **SriSri** » 03 Feb 2012 10:53

vic wrote:If the reports that Rafale is 20% cheaper is correct then it would mean that EF will have to lower price by say 30% to come back into consideration, which I don't see happening. Also US can be spoil sport by offering F-35 officially but F-35 continues to suffer deals & price rise, so that is also little difficult. Dassault can off course muck it up by playing hard ball in contract negotiations

Hmm..

United States has not offered F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to India: Pentagon

"Should India indicate interest in purchasing the JSF, the United States would be prepared to provide information on the JSF and its requirements (infrastructure, security, etc) to support India's future planning" -- Pentagon spokesperson Commander Leslie Hullryde

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Feb 2012 10:58

>> provide information on the JSF and its requirements (infrastructure, security, etc)

sounds like we will have to host a platoon of khans to constantly supervise and inspect our equipment for fear their precious technology will be handed over to china and fiji as well as AC maalish paalish hangers so the JSF skins dont fall off the indian monsoon and desert heat

MarcH · Post by **MarcH** » 03 Feb 2012 11:02

I somehow don't understand the British. The Indian side was quite clear that L1 would walk away with the deal. Dassault provided the better terms and won the competition.
Congratualtion to Dassault, good luck getting some profit out of the deal.

If talks with Dassault for some reason hit a roadblock, Eurofighter still can offer the only other aircraft passing the technical avaluation.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 03 Feb 2012 11:06

Rahul M wrote:
nawabs wrote:Britain disregarding its own laws.
http://www.wdm.org.uk/trade/aid-meant-a ... ghter-jets
from 'britannia rules the waves' to 'britannia waives rules'

Actually, Rahulji, UK has done us great service, and it is important that they keep on doing this service. I am sure when MMS goes to UK, he will smooth all ruffled feathers and blame the debacle on the IAF or the Babus or the communists or the BJP. Being a humble and polite person he will give the next best thing to the actual order. He will give them hope for even a bigger order in future. After all what is life with out hope? And UK will keep on performing the same service, namely keeping the French in line. It may be necessary to throw some haddis to UK from time to time. I think the same tactics will also work for the US.
Gautam

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 03 Feb 2012 11:06

NRao wrote:
Diplomatic realtions should be between governments and handled by diplomats for long term benefits
Precisely. GoI should have put enormous pressure on the GOTUS to part with the source code - the long term benefit.

That is what BK is saying when he says cultivate the political aspect of the GOTUS.

I think we are on the same page.

Yawn......

The US and their munnas need to learn that they are doing the selling, therefore convincing the GoTUS that it is stupid and pig headed is its problem, not Indias.

India will get what it wants from other sources more easily if the US wants to live in this foolish notion that they are indispensable.

Badar · Post by **Badar** » 03 Feb 2012 11:10

SaiK wrote:AoA: Mort, the way you present it appears MoD gets all the cake for doing the paper work with the help of some cute young cats., and IAF after going through the most toughest 643 parameters comparison test reports now look pale against your MoD praise!

Yes, the poor IAF sods - aircrew, technicians, leaders all - how their hearts must have fallen at the burdensome duty of flinging six of the world best fighter aircraft around the sky, tinkering and understanding state of the art tech, coordinating and interacting with representatives of the leading aviation concerns. All this in the constant glare of top IAF leadership attention and media limelight rather than a comfy and obscure routine posting at Jhumritalaiya. Our heart bleeds for them.

Jokes aside, AF doing a through professional job is not noteworthy - it is routine and expected. MoD keeping clean hands and withstanding immense political pressures - that *is* noteworthy. As others have mentioned before, the MMS team also deserves kudus for ensuring this happened.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 03 Feb 2012 11:15

Badar wrote: Jokes aside, AF doing a through professional job is not noteworthy - it is routine and expected. MoD keeping clean hands and withstanding immense political pressures - that *is* noteworthy. As others have mentioned before, the MMS team also deserves kudus for ensuring this happened.

Why the double standards? Aren't they just doing their jobs as well? The IAF did all the hard work anyway.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Feb 2012 11:17

Sanku wrote:The US and their munnas need to learn that they are doing the selling, therefore convincing the GoTUS that it is stupid and pig headed is its problem, not Indias.

India will get what it wants from other sources more easily if the US wants to live in this foolish notion that they are indispensable.

I second that.

OT but instructive in the current context. Read the full article.
G.E. to Share Jet Technology With China in New Joint Venture

And no Western company has been more aggressive in helping China pursue that dream than one of the aviation industry’s biggest suppliers of jet engines and airplane technology, General Electric.

On Friday, during the visit of the Chinese president, Hu Jintao, to the United States, G.E. plans to sign a joint-venture agreement in commercial aviation that shows the tricky risk-and-reward calculations American corporations must increasingly make in their pursuit of lucrative markets in China.

G.E., in the partnership with a state-owned Chinese company, will be sharing its most sophisticated airplane electronics, including some of the same technology used in Boeing’s new state-of-the-art 787 Dreamliner.

G.E., which said it had briefed the commerce, defense and state departments on details of the deal, acknowledges that pairing up with a Chinese firm is a delicate dance. But because the commercial aircraft market in China is expected to generate sales of more than $400 billion over the next two decades, it is not a party the company is willing to miss.

“This venture is a strategic move that we made after some thought and consideration, with a company we know,” Mr. Rice said. “This isn’t something we were forced into” by the Chinese government.

But the G.E. avionics joint venture, analysts say, appears to be the deepest relationship yet and involves sharing the most confidential technology. And G.E.’s partner, Avic, also supplies China’s military aircraft and weapons systems.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Feb 2012 12:51

Just got this via email from a friend ... what if its credible ?

http://janamejayan.files.wordpress.com/ ... age2b2.jpg

Badar · Post by **Badar** » 03 Feb 2012 12:57

Austin wrote:Just got this via email from a friend ... what if its credible ? http://janamejayan.files.wordpress.com/ ... age2b2.jpg

Is that even real? If so then our "loyal" opposition is proving more of a challenge to force modernization than enemy action.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Feb 2012 13:00

Yes it will be pity to see MMRCA deal end up with Corruption charges .....its after 10 year we made it here.

Well just hope there is no bribe paid and we will see it through