India-US Strategic News and Discussion

[Rony]

So let me understand what you are saying.Because "truth is subjective", therefore, Indians should not publish anything critical of their system of governance in "foreign" media outlets

Correct. I think we are talking past each other.If you can't get a simple point which i am making which is that there is no use of washing our dirty linen in foreign media then there is no point in dragging this conversation. So i will leave it at that. And no need to put quotes on the word foreign. Nyt is a foreign media unless you think otherwise. We should respond to articles written by westernerns or Aroy types. But there is no use in encouraging people like manu joseph or ramalakshmi or this sanghvi guy in penning articles critical of our system and using garbage language like "mumbai being the slum capital of universe" etc

[member_23692]

KaranJi/RsangamJi/RonyJi,

I think we are beating to death, a piece of whining crap written by some 2-bit frustrated Indian dude in a gora newspaper known for its contempt for India.

Having said that KaranJi, I must dispute 2 points you make:

1. No doubt in the disgusting Indian media, you can't write anything critical about MMS or Sonia/RG. Its a shameless suck up, especially when you compare with the daily demonizing of Modi. That said, I did not see his piece is only being critical of the ruling family which he can't do for sure in India. From his tone, he appears to me like a Pankaj Misra, ARoy type dissing India in front of his gora masters who I can imagine saying "good job my boy".

I did not see it as him seeking "approval" from "Goras". I agree with you that he is dissing India in general, which means an overwhelming majority of Indian population of today. I happen to think that an overwhelming majority of Indian population of today deserve to be dissed, for a variety to reasons, not the least of which is that they have no self respect and dont think in terms of a nation or a community. They have descended to the lowest civilizational level, only slightly above animals, if that, where they are only concerned with their own immediate appetites, whether they be of money or power or sex, to the exclusion of all else. In that sense, yes, when one does not and cannot think of anything larger than himself or herself, there is no question of any "thought" leave aside original "thought", no question of any "art", leave aside, original art, no question of anything beautiful as music or even "TRUTH". Its all about appetites. I routinely chastise 80% of Indians for descending to levels which are not much higher civilizationally than animals and for free loading and putting ever increasing burdens on the other 20% of us, and a rapidly dwindling 20% at that, which is nationalistic, works hard, is honest, carries the burden of the beast and most importantly, resists corruption or at least resists being corrupt, if not downright fight against it. And I dont mind saying what I say here in any forum, national or international, because I believe the more the light is shone on this miserable India (as opposed to Shining India) the better it is for the "better" 20% of us Indians, in any forum. If we dont voice our opinions internationally, then the field will be left totally for the likes of Arundhati Roy and the likes and the entire perception of India in the West will be from their perspective. Does my thinking make me a villian too ?

Especially his comment about "nothing original", everything copied from west is a give away. If he said something to the effect of, India has many cultural and artistic traditions from its Hindu civilizational roots, but "secularism" has stifled that, I wouldn't have suspected his intentions.

Let us be honest. As much as secularism is a phony concept and I hate it to my bones, let us not put all the blame for any lack of original thought or art or music or anything authentically Indian thriving in India today, merely to "securlarism", or Gandhi family or the ruling elite. if only a small elite and some socialist and foreign thoughts or ideology were the culprit or the problem, then we would not have a huge problem and people like me would not be so pessimistic about India. Small elites and foreign ideologies, as formidable a foe as they are, are actually in my mind quite manageable, given the Civilizational depth we have in general. No. I believe the problem is more serious than the prevalence of a small misguided elite and inroads made by foreign ideologies such as socialism and secularism, which are not relevant to the Hindu cilivizational ethos. The problem is the present day collective and individual character of the 80% of us, who through mere greed, gluttony for all things, never ending and never satiated desires have become animal like and self destructive. Unless we take a deeper look at ourselves and make a super human effort to climb out of this pit, we will keep being easy prey to the likes of Gandhis and ideologies like secularism. In fact, I would dare say that the inroads made by these foreign ideologies and the misdeeds of the anti-national elite as represented by the Gandhi family, are a direct result of the collective and individual shortcomings of the overwhelming majority of us Hindus, not the cause of our decline.
Therefore, I sympathize with the Sanghvi on his angst at the lack of anything original in India today. In fact, I think that his angst is more with "no hope" for any original work to come into existence in the forseeable future than the mere lack of it today. And I share that angst. And please explain how, an expression of desire to see my own culture and traditions and way of life revitalized, renewed and restored through genuine hard work and original thought, even in a foreign publication, makes me or this writer someone, who "seeks approval of the goras" ?

[Rony]

On chinese. If Indians have even a fraction of the nationalism Chinese had, we would be better off. How many article have you seen by a Han Chinese in a gora newspaper talking human rights of Tibetean people. Show me. In fact, mention Dalai Lama, and they will bristle in anger. Of course, India is not China with its million mutinies, the Chinese are 90+% Han.

Nicely put CRamS. Also, how many times the chinese even the educated ones in the west whined in the opinion pages of new york times about the lack of democracy in China, displacements of people because of big infrastructure projects etc. I am sure they are as much worried as anyone else and have anger towards their govt but unlike our psedo-liberal, marxist and commie types they don't whine in nyt/bbc begging the "international community" to intervene or impose sanctions on India because we elected Modi.

[KrishnaK]

2. On chinese. If Indians have even a fraction of the nationalism Chinese had, we would be better off. How many article have you seen by a Han Chinese in a gora newspaper talking human rights of Tibetean people. Show me. In fact, mention Dalai Lama, and they will bristle in anger. Of course, India is not China with its million mutinies, the Chinese are 90+% Han.

Liu also stands out because of his strong support for Tibet and the Tibetan Government in Exile's position of autonomy. In 2000, he authored an essay titled "The Right of Self-government," which supported the Dalai Lama's push for Tibetan autonomy

from Liu Xiaobo's Peace Prize: A Victory for Tibet The CPC and it's drones are a joke. India has a lot of balls to be an open country that allows a multitude of opinions, without having to hide behind the veil of nationalism. No amount of articles in gora newspapers is going to hurt India.

And some thoughts on this Ajai Shukla's nonsense about "many Pakistans". Its another one of these useless arguments for India's in action ("Pak is also a victim of terror", "terrorism threatens Pak", "civilan Vs military", "nuke flashpoint" being other useless cliches). First, TSP is not going to respond to any good intention from India. They want India period. And TSP wants a fight, not "piss", for them "piss process" is a strategy towards an end. And we have beaten to death this comparison with US. US pummels TSP into submission. US then also offers carrots because it needs TSP for a host of reasons, most of for equal equal with India. India has zero leverage over TSP. At least TSP has some leverage over India with its pigLeTs. What does India have to deal with the "many Pakistans"?

If the US can pummel TSP into submission, what's the need for carrots ? As far as having no leverage with Pakistan, that's what Ajai's saying. Unless you interact with them how will you gain any leverage ? We'll have to find a way to gain leverage with the Pakis.

[CRamS]

If the US can pummel TSP into submission, what's the need for carrots ? As far as having no leverage with Pakistan, that's what Ajai's saying. Unless you interact with them how will you gain any leverage ? We'll have to find a way to gain leverage with the Pakis.

Because US is an imperialist superpower where sometimes it needs 2-bit terrorist entities like TSP to balance its regional competitors like India.

India has interacted with TSP for 60+ years, and if one doesn't know enough about TSP now, I mean those among the power elite in India, then they need a mental check up.

BTW, another self satisfying useless cliche that these Ajai Shukla types put out is that "US is the most hated country in TSP, even more than India". The implication being that despite that, US gives carrots toTSP, and so India must also.

Not to drumbeat the same theme, but the passion, the desire, the obsession to undo and dominate India is so deep, so pervasive, so embedded in their psyche, that TSP would rather go up in a nuke mushroom cloud and take India down with it, than any "pissful" existence that renders India as the dominant de-facto regional power that it is and growing. Give or take a few cents, this cuts across the length and breadth of PakiJabis who rule TSP. Thats why, TSP is not going to respond to any reasonable overture from India, short of dilution of India's power, and in that endeavor, TSP's and its 3.5's aims coincide. Thats why US will not touch LeT even though like a drone that took out Hakimullah Mehsud, a drone can easily take out Hafeez, Dawood pigs that TSP aims at India. US knows the importance of "good terrorists" to TSP's survival visa vi India. So when US says they support regional "piss", they mean India TSP equal equal.

[Cosmo_R]

@Karan M re Sanghvi ^^^:

+1

To Rony, Sanghvi could not get his piece published in the Indian press and even if he did, no one would read it lost as it would be among the latest Bollywood nonsense.

Also, the same "Don't air your dirty laundry in public in front of the world" would have been employed.

I mean it's not lost on the world that India's infrastructure is pot holed/non -existent. It's not exactly a well kept secret.

I know at least 5 people who during the last five years, packed up and went back to India to make a difference. They could not and three of them are back and the other two are on the verge. They learned the essential but not obvious lesson: "In India, there is always a good reason why something has not happened and why it won't." BTW, it was not that way right after independence—then you could make a difference by doing the right thing.

[member_23692]

They learned the essential but not obvious lesson: "In India, there is always a good reason why something has not happened and why it won't."

Exactly. You have hit the nail on the head.

The good reason in almost all cases is, "corruption". The reason that everything is the way it is in India is because it is in someone's interest for things to be that way. While it may seem like everything bad in India is due to neglect and carelessness, nothing can be further from the truth. Everything bad in India is because the vested interests have planned it that way and the vested interests (corrupt) are so entrenched that no one can dislodge them. So much so, even that the small percentage of still honest Indians in India, who are the true victims of this current Indian system of governance, who I call the "class that carries the rest of India by being beasts of burden", is so devoid of any strategic thinking, that even they dont provide any support for this "do gooder" returning NRI and even that class ridicules him. Just like the poor white guy in the American south, who keeps voting Republican and extreme right wing, against his interests, at least economic interest, this "beast of burden" class in India too, like many on this forum unwittingly work to perpetuate the corrupt in India and undermine any noble instincts anyone might have, no matter how naive, to try and improve things.

The poor sucker NRI, therefore, who goes back to "make a difference" is worse than a village idiot, who bangs his head against the wall for a few years when he tries to change anything, all the while being laughed at and ridiculed as a "brown firang" and then when he runs out of money and the last drop of feeling of kinship with his fellow Indian, returns back to "fareign" with his tail between his legs.

The only NRIs who successfully manage to stay back are the ones whose intention was never to "make a difference", but to exploit whatever opportunities India provided by indulging in the same form of corruption that his fellow Indians have already been doing. In other words, "completely adjust" to India. Those returning NRIs who like most Indians are simply mercenaries, seem to do quite well and dont return like idiots to their "foreign home". Or the ones, whose families in India are already rich, either large landholders, business people or POLITICIANS. These NRIs who stay back are then held up as an example of a model and "culturally true and pure" Indian who have the ability to "adjust" to India and who have the "good sense" to "accept" the things as they are in India without trying to change them, like those other fools, those other NRIs who could not "adjust" and went back.

And yeah, before anyone jumps on me, I am well aware of that one in ten NRI, who is an idiot in the truest sense of the word, who just have become a total sell out and merely returns and starts blindly pontificating to everyone about the virtues of the West and mindlessly trashes everything Indian, even the few remaining good things and even our glorious past and traditions. That guy does not deserve any sympathy. But, that category of NRI is only at best 1 in 10 and is unfortunately held up as a typical NRI and a caricature of an NRI, which is grossly unfair.

[KrishnaK]

If the US can pummel TSP into submission, what's the need for carrots ? As far as having no leverage with Pakistan, that's what Ajai's saying. Unless you interact with them how will you gain any leverage ? We'll have to find a way to gain leverage with the Pakis.

Because US is an imperialist superpower where sometimes it needs 2-bit terrorist entities like TSP to balance its regional competitors like India.

Eh ? We're a regional competitor to the US now ? The same India that hasn't been able to have it's way with a country 1/6th her size ? Of course, the US fears us so they need Pakistan to keep us boxed in. In fact lots of splendid analysis backed by historical facts have been provided on this forum that the US/UK alliance have been plotting to keep India down for decades now, if not centuries. Like the Pakis have provided analysis backed by facts about how the US hates them because they're muslim and they can't see a muslim country having nukes. Like the Arabs claim, if it were not for American support, Israel would not exist.

If

the obsession to undo and dominate India is so deep, so pervasive, so embedded in their psyche, that TSP would rather go up in a nuke mushroom cloud and take India down with it, than any "pissful" existence that renders India as the dominant de-facto regional power that it is and growing.

were true, why haven't they done it already ? After all they have them nukes and Uncle's and China's backing in that endeavour don't they ?

Thats why US will not touch LeT even though like a drone that took out Hakimullah Mehsud, a drone can easily take out Hafeez, Dawood pigs that TSP aims at India. US knows the importance of "good terrorists" to TSP's survival visa vi India. So when US says they support regional "piss", they mean India TSP equal equal.

If it's US' job to take out Hafeez and Dawood, barring which they're plotting against us, what exactly is the responsibility of the Sovereign Republic of India ? To sit with its thumbs up its arse and ?

[Vayutuvan]

rsangram ji,

So have we covered 100% of the Indians (including PIOs) yet?

Village Indians (70-80% depending how you define a village) - "Idiots"
NRIs who want to make a difference but after runnig out of money return to "fareign home" - "Idiots"
NRIs who don't want to make a difference and "completely adjust" - "mercenaries"
NRIs who don't want to make a difference but "milk their family connections" - promoted as "exemplary" but in reality "mercenaries"


City dwellers who hardly vote but deserve all the good things in life including English/convent educamation, alfredo fettucini, polos, iThingies, ray-bans and Nike shoes - unfairly targeted by NJBPRIs and DDM (ironically these two are a subset of those being targeted) are deserving of sympathy
NRIs who pontificate - unfairly caricatured and targeted and are deserving of sympathy

The idiots consist of 80% who do not deserve any sympathy because they are idiots. On the other hand, these same idiots are required to fill the factories, plow the land, and also become cannon fodder so that the self-proclaimed elites can go on jaitra yatras. Good luck in convincing the idiots to willingly participate in your grand plan and give their life and limb for some MBA PPT giri kooky ideas.

[Raja Bose]

Only 6 people managed to enroll in health insurance on healthcare.gov on the first day

So much for sooper dooper Khan technology

[member_23692]

rsangram ji,

So have we covered 100% of the Indians (including PIOs) yet?

Village Indians (70-80% depending how you define a village) - "Idiots"
NRIs who want to make a difference but after runnig out of money return to "fareign home" - "Idiots"
NRIs who don't want to make a difference and "completely adjust" - "mercenaries"
NRIs who don't want to make a difference but "milk their family connections" - promoted as "exemplary" but in reality "mercenaries"


City dwellers who hardly vote but deserve all the good things in life including English/convent educamation, alfredo fettucini, polos, iThingies, ray-bans and Nike shoes - unfairly targeted by NJBPRIs and DDM (ironically these two are a subset of those being targeted) are deserving of sympathy
NRIs who pontificate - unfairly caricatured and targeted and are deserving of sympathy

The idiots consist of 80% who do not deserve any sympathy because they are idiots. On the other hand, these same idiots are required to fill the factories, plow the land, and also become cannon fodder so that the self-proclaimed elites can go on jaitra yatras. Good luck in convincing the idiots to willingly participate in your grand plan and give their life and limb for some MBA PPT giri kooky ideas.

I dont think you read my post carefully. There are some glaring errors in your characterization of what I said. Just as a couple of examples of your mischaracterization of my views, one, I never said that the pontificating NRI deserves any sympathies, in fact, I said, he does NOT deserve any symapthies and two, I never said that the city deweller who hardly votes deserves sympathies and I did not use the term "village idiot" to mean that the villagers were idiot, but just used it as a term to convey idiocy arising out of simple mindedness. (Village idiot is a term, which might have originated as meaning an idiot from the village, I dont know, but it has been used for ages as someone who is a simple minded idiot, not some villager who is an idiot).

Also, a village idiot like me fails to understand who you are meaning by "the self-proclaimed elites" who go on "jaitra yatras". Who exactly are these people ?

[Vayutuvan]

rsangram ji

I have read your post carefully and a few times to boot and could not get the thrust of it. Let me quote the entire para for context and highlight the part which I find boorish irrespective of whether "village idiot" is an oft used characterization of a simple minded person or not.

The poor sucker NRI, therefore, who goes back to "make a difference" is worse than a village idiot, who bangs his head against the wall for a few years when he tries to change anything, all the while being laughed at and ridiculed as a "brown firang" and then when he runs out of money and the last drop of feeling of kinship with his fellow Indian, returns back to "fareign" with his tail between his legs.

and the following from Websters:

Villain Vil"lain, n. [OE. vilein, F. vilain, LL. villanus,
from villa a village, L. villa a farm. See Villa.]
[1913 Webster]

I would appreciate it if you could please put your views on 80% of the Indians/PIOs who are from villages as I don't understand what you mean by simple minded people (i.e. village idiots).

Added later: Lest you think otherwise I am not doubting your deshbhakti but really want to know the source of this overt antagonism and condescension towards villagers who are a large a chunk of India who need the kind of sensitivity that CM Modi has shown today towards that young mother from a small town who lost her husband in a cowardly attack.

[ramana]

Only 6 people managed to enroll in health insurance on healthcare.gov on the first day



So much for sooper dooper Khan technology

Thats what happens when desi programmers are kept out.

[member_23692]

rsangram ji

I have read your post carefully and a few times to boot and could not get the thrust of it. Let me quote the entire para for context and highlight the part which I find boorish irrespective of whether "village idiot" is an oft used characterization of a simple minded person or not.

The poor sucker NRI, therefore, who goes back to "make a difference" is worse than a village idiot, who bangs his head against the wall for a few years when he tries to change anything, all the while being laughed at and ridiculed as a "brown firang" and then when he runs out of money and the last drop of feeling of kinship with his fellow Indian, returns back to "fareign" with his tail between his legs.

In my quote above, I was being sarcastic when I called a "do gooder" NRI a Village Idiot. What I meant was that he is looked upon by Indians in India as a "village idiot" for his simplicity. Perhaps, it was my mistake of not putting village idiot in quotes, like "village idiot". If I had put it in quotes the sarcasm would have been more clear, which was my intent anyway. So, in this case, it is just my inadequacy with the English language which gave you the wrong impression that I myself was unsympathetic to this fella. In fact, I have been defending Sanghvi who wrote in the NYT and I fully empathize with the genuinely well intentioned NRI, no matter how naive he is or how clumsy his ways are. Even good intentions are such a rarity among Indians today, I will take them wherever I can find them. It is the total sellout NRI, who thinks all things Indian, including our civilizational memes are bad and has come to mindlessly believe in all things Western and who pontificates to Indians from a totally Western perspective, that I have no sympathy for. A "do gooder" NRI in contrast is attached to India and feels himself a part of the goodness of Indian civilization but he sees flaws in India, major flaws, as I see them too, and I can relate to those guys fully, even if their methods may or may not be same as mine to improve things in India.

and the following from Websters:

Villain Vil"lain, n. [OE. vilein, F. vilain, LL. villanus,
from villa a village, L. villa a farm. See Villa.]
[1913 Webster]

I have no idea what you mean by the above. What does "villian" have to do with anything I have said.

I would appreciate it if you could please put your views on 80% of the Indians/PIOs who are from villages as I don't understand what you mean by simple minded people (i.e. village idiots).

First of all, let me withdraw the phrase, "Village idiot" and merely replace it with "idiot". This would clear any confusion that I was referring to the Villagers in any way, shape or form. I was absolutely not referring to any villagers at all.
But since you have asked, I would be happy to provide you my views of the Indian villagers, who no longer are 80%, but I think as per the latest census, are around 70% and perhaps even in the 60s, as far as percentages go. Regardless of their percentage, here is what I think of them, and I have said the same thing in a post on some other thread in response to Brihaspati idealizing the Indian villager. I personally see no difference between an Indian from a village and an urban Indian. I think the same percentage of villagers in India are uncouth and corrupt as they are in the cities, which in my view is about 80%. In villages too, 80% of people are corrupt, want something for nothing, are castiests, and are devoid of much of our great civizilizational traits. Same thing is true of the urban Indian in exactly the same percentages. If ever, the myth of the Indian villager being the "salt of the earth" was true, it no longer is. It is only the 20% who are carrying the other 80% in the villages too, just as in cities. Therefore, as you can see, I am totally agnostic as far as the urban-rural issue is concerned. Therefore, I really did not mean the "Village idiot" to mean an idiot from the village. I really did not and I withdraw that phrase if it conveys something I did not mean. Lastly, I do not think, a rural person deserves any more or less sensitivity than an urban person in India. I think the 20% of Indian population, urban or rural, that is honest, non-corrupt, nationalistic and carries the other 80% as a beast of burden, deserves extra sensitivity and much much more. The 80% "uselessos" and uncouth that are free loaders in India deserve none.

[Vayutuvan]

rsangram ji, OK, no problem. I also have a huge deficiency in my English comprehension which I demonstrated very definitively in my responses to you. I will replace my posts with a mea culpa, if you wish.

[g.sarkar]

http://www.sify.com/news/barack-obama-s ... jeifh.html
Barack Obama's secret offer to Pakistan over Kashmir, claims book
Source : PTI
Last Updated: Wed, Nov 06, 2013 15:14 hrs
15 Comments
"Washington: US President Barack Obama secretly offered Pakistan in 2009 that he would nudge India towards negotiations on Kashmir in lieu of it ending support to terrorist groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba and Taliban, but much to his disappointment Islamabad rejected the offer.
"Since the 1950s Pakistan had wanted an American role in South Asia. Now it was being offered one. In the end, Pakistan would have to negotiate the Kashmir issue directly with India. But at least now the American president was saying that he would nudge the Indians toward those negotiations," Pakistan's former Ambassador to the US Husain Haqqani writes in his book 'Magnificent Delusions', which hit the stores today.
This is Haqqani's interpretation of the secret letter written by President Obama to the then President Asif Ali Zardari, which was personally hand delivered by his then National Security Advisor Gen (rtd) James Jones.
The letter's content is for the first time being disclosed by Haqqani, the then Pakistan's envoy to the US.
In his book, spread over 300 pages, Haqqani writes that in November 2009, Jones travelled to Islamabad to hand deliver a letter written by Obama to Zardari.
Dated November 11, 2009, through the letter Obama offered Pakistan to become America's "long-term strategic" partner. The letter "even hinted at addressing Pakistan's oft-stated desire for a settlement of the Kashmir dispute," he writes......."
Gautam

[Prem]

http://www.sify.com/news/barack-obama-s ... jeifh.html
Barack Obama's secret offer to Pakistan over Kashmir, claims book
In his book, spread over 300 pages, Haqqani writes that in November 2009, Jones travelled to Islamabad to hand deliver a letter written by Obama to Zardari.
Dated November 11, 2009, through the letter Obama offered Pakistan to become America's "long-term strategic" partner. The letter "even hinted at addressing Pakistan's oft-stated desire for a settlement of the Kashmir dispute," he writes......."
Gautam

Richard Holebrooke was appointed as Viceroy of Af-Napak in Jan 2009.

[Nandu]

g.sarkar, it is HussaiHaqqani's delusion. India has always been willing to talk to Pakistan as long as they control their terrorists. Whatever Obama obliquely offers in that letter is nothing more than that.

At the most Obama is trying to take credit for something India would do without any nudging any way.

[Vayutuvan]

You meant Haqquani, right? For a minute I thought you were referring to khaled hosseini, the author.

[Nandu]

Yes, Hussain Haqqani. Too late to edit now.

[anjan]

CIA hid more than it revealed on 26/11: RAW

A source said that after the 26/11 attack,the CIA was caught on the wrong-foot for aiding its freelancer David Coleman Headley. Despite having information on Headley’s links with the Lashkar-e-Taiba, the American authorities chose to ignore his activities which eventually led to the Mumbai attacks, that killed 164 and left over 300 injured.

“After the attack, the CIA and American authorities went into damage control mode and distanced themselves from Headley. But they had also pressured the Indian government not to pursue Headley’s extradition as he would have revealed what the CIA was trying to hide from the Indian agencies,” he said.

A leaked secret cable from the US embassy here had revealed the American agencies’ fear about Headley. The US Ambassador Timothy Roemer, during his discussion on the Indo-US civilian nuclear agreement on December 16, had raised the issue of Headley’s extradition with Narayanan and sought India’s commitment that it will not seek Headley’s extradition.

Former additional secretary of RAW Jayadev Ranade said the initial tip-off definitely came from the CIA, but there was no continuous flow of intelligence.

“Our own specific input was more real that a dhow was coming but the Coast Guard didn’t act. In fact, the CIA had more information on terrorist activities in Pakistan which they shared only a few days after the attack. Even Headley’s interrogation was limited,” he said.

[NRao]

FWIW:

Nov 20, 2013 :: India, US may make fourth generation Javelins

The ice seems to be breaking. Coming slowly out of an environment of mistrust which prompted major restrictions on defence technology transfers, the US wants to jointly produce with India its fourth generation of Javelin anti-tank guided missiles.

Washington has also upgraded its initial offer of a part transfer to a full transfer of technology for third-generation Javelins.

The technology transfer will include the 'seeker' software — which helps home in on the target.

The Defence Acquisition Council headed by defence minister AK Antony has asked the Indian Army to consider the US-made Javelin along with Israeli Spike missiles. The Javelin purchase will feature in meetings during Army Chief General Bikram Singh's trip to the US early next month.

[KJo]

Only 6 people managed to enroll in health insurance on healthcare.gov on the first day

So much for sooper dooper Khan technology

Serves Khan right for not giving TCS the contract.

[SSridhar]

Protect India's Religious Minorities, says US House Resolution - Narayan Lakshman, The Hindu

A bipartisan resolution introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives this week has praised the U.S. government for holding firm to its 2005 decision to deny Gujarat Chief Minister and the BJP’s prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi a visa to enter the U.S.

Introduced on Monday evening, House Resolution 417 urged the government of India to “to publicly oppose the exploitation of religious differences and denounce harassment and violence against religious minorities, especially in the run-up to India’s general elections in 2014.”

Marking what appeared to be stronger support within the U.S. Congress for religious minorities’ rights in India, the resolution noted, “Contrary to the tolerant and pluralistic traditions of the Hindu faith, strands of the Hindu nationalist movements have advanced a divisive and violent agenda that has harmed the social fabric of India.”

In this context, the resolution called for religious freedom and related human rights to be included in the U.S.-India Strategic Dialogue, which is a key mechanism for progress in bilateral cooperation in recent years. The resolution also suggested that such issues ought to be raised “directly with federal and state Indian government officials when appropriate.”

The resolution, sponsored by Representative Joseph Pitts, Republican of Pennsylvania, was co-sponsored by 14 other Congressmen from both parties, including Democrats Keith Ellison and John Conyers, and Republican Steve Chabot, Chair of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific.

While the resolution referenced the February 2002 incident in Godhra in which “58 Hindus were burnt alive in a train coach fire,” it also emphasised that the U.S.’ International Religious Freedom Report of 2003 and subsequent years quoted the State Department finding that “In Gujarat the worst religious violence directed against Muslims by Hindus took place in February and March 2002, leaving an estimated 2,000 dead and 100,000 displaced into refugee camps.”

Commenting on the resolution Representative Pitts said, “The Indian government cannot expect to make greater strides on religious freedom and human rights in the future while countless thousands have not seen justice for their lost loved ones.”

Welcoming the resolution, Kannan Srinivasan, spokesperson for the Coalition Against Genocide, a broad alliance fighting for justice for victims of the 2002 Gujarat pogrom said, “It is a sad day for all Indians, that a man whose complicity in mass violence and suppression of minorities is acknowledged internationally, happens to be the prime ministerial candidate of a major political party in India.”

[Arjun]

Protect India's Religious Minorities, says US House Resolution - Narayan Lakshman, The Hindu

And what is the context of this resolution ? Surely not the upcoming exercise of the world's largest ever democratic elections ?

Doubt such lunacy would pass through the US Congress - but if it does it is likely to further strengthen Modi's candidature in India.

And here I was thinking Modi's long-term legacy in flushing out left-loonies would be restricted to India alone...Seems like his contribution will be far more global than anticipated.

[Vayutuvan]

Doubt such lunacy would pass through the US Congress - but if it does it is likely to further strengthen Modi's candidature in India.

How so? I, for the life of me, am unable to come up with a path of deduction.

[Arjun]

How so? I, for the life of me, am unable to come up with a path of deduction.

Oh, Modi quite thrives on irrational attacks by his detractors in electioneering ! Many analysts attribute his 2007 win to SG's infamous and intemperate aspersions in that campaign.

The Indian public seems to do well in recognizing motivated aspersions, notwithstanding what its source. Or aternatively, Modi is just too good in playing this up to his advantage.

[TSJones]

This is making US news:

Top republican denies association with banned Hindu Supremacist:

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... upremacist

note: you may have to google this article in order to access it.

Ubaid said he was puzzled as to why McMorris Rodgers, in his view, was trying to deny a connection to Modi. "Morality and common sense dictate that she should admit a mistake and say she was misled," he said. "Otherwise she's going to be digging a bigger hole with the media."

Who is this Ubaid guy anyway. Is he a muslim apologist?

[Aditya_V]

How does Narendra Modi become Hindu Supremacist? what rubbish, there will atleast 200 million Americans, 200 million Pakis and a few Billion others in this world be worse than him.

[NRao]

Only 6 people managed to enroll in health insurance on healthcare.gov on the first day

So much for sooper dooper Khan technology

Serves Khan right for not giving TCS the contract.

Errrr...............

1) It cannot go to a foreign company. (For that matter it cannot go to even *any* US company.)
2) The project has a TON of NRIs. As do most IT businesses

None of which are the problems. When someone wants to run anything into the ground one really does not need top notch techies to do it. Just place bad managers and the goal can be achieved.

[vishvak]

Gassing against NaMo also helps to ignore scheming by strategic partner pakis including ISI, Dawood, IM, SIMI etc doing bomb blasts during election rallies.

No one reminds separation of state and religious ideologies in elections in USA because it doesn't occur in USA with church leaders doing their thing during USA elections.

[Rony]

This is making US news:

Top republican denies association with banned Hindu Supremacist:

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... upremacist

I have a feeling that America will end up in Indian subcontinent the way it ended up in middle east - with no allies to speak of. They already lost Af-Pak, they will end up losing their Indian allies as well because of their sheer ignorance (which is aptly manifested in that article) coupled with self righteousness mixed with arrogance.

[Prem]

is not Joe Pit the same guy who was funded convicted ISI agent Fai who was sentenced by federal Judge last year?

[Arjun]

Hmm...should we call this sweet revenge ?! Left loonies from overseas have for long contributed to screwing India as a country and shackling her rise. Now, an Indian socialist is on the verge of screwing America up !

http://www.fitsnews.com/2013/11/20/seattle-socialist-boeing-workers-should-rise-up/

[Philip]

America has since inception struggled to come to terms with the humanist egalitarian intents of its founding fathers enshrined in the American Constitution,one of the finest ever decrees by man since the dawn of civilisation."All men created equal..." The Civil War won by the North and the apparent abolition of slavery,Lincoln and his Gettysburg address,still did not eradicate racism in the deep south.From Lincoln to JFK and a government "for the people,by the people and of the people" was savagely cut short by his assassination in Dallas exactly 50 years ago on Nov 22nd. A conspiracy of white conservatives,including allegedly by some sources Lyndon Johnson (Richard Nixon too was secretly in Dallas the same time say some),forced JFK to come to Dallas where he had been warned about the anti-JFK mood and security threats,where the mayor was the brother of CIA chief Allan Dulles sacked by JFK for the Cuban "Bay of Pigs" failed attempt to overthrow Castro.The mafia,CIA and southern white conservatives allegedly combined forces to assassinate JFK.The nephew and brother of Chicago mafia boss Sam Giancana in their book "Double Cross" ,published many years ago and interviewed by Larry King,explained in detail why and how JFK,RFK and Marilyn Monroe were all eliminated by mafia hit men.Betrayal of the mafia and right-wing conservative interests.

Next in line to be eliminated was Martin Luther King who spearheaded the Civil Rights movement in the country with his famous "I have a Dream" speech that electrified the nation.Instead of an equitable society,the Vietnam War and Cold War with the Soviets was expanded for the benefit of the military-industrial complex,which Dwight D Eisenhower,president and former general in charge of all Allied forces in WW2 warned against.Johnson,Nixon with his Sancho Panza bum-chum Kissinger and even Reagan with his "evil empire" and "Star Wars" military madness kept fanning the flames of war across the globe.The advent of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism was an American creation,with whole-hearted support for Islamist Gen.Zia in Pak,where we are informed today was allowed by Reagan and the US to secretly develop his nuclear arsenal in support for being a "frontline state" against the Soviets in Afghanistan. That support has seldom wavered down the decades even unto this day in the age of O'Bomber ,America's first black president ,who was elected some say because of his father's alleged CIA connections. Bruce Reidel tells us in his book "Deadly Embrace" about the current global jihad being waged and the US-Paki "misalliance",and Adrian Levy in "Seige",where we have not learnt the lessons of 26/11,today about the Headley/Gilani conspiracy.He states that the masterminds of 26/11 in Pak have got away scot-free, thanks to the US and a spineless quisling UPA govt. led by "Surrender Singh",Washington's puppet.

This conflict in the US between conservative elements which include the fundamentalist supposedly Christian entities who wish to aggressively export Christianity globally,with similar intentions of those of the Wahaabi fanatics,and thoe Americans who wish for a more equitable nation where all have the same opportunities to live the great American Dream,will still go on for some more time.This conflict between the haves and have-nots is now being played out on a global scale with the race to control global energy and strategic raw materials with a new enemy China ,replacing the erstwhile Soviet Empire. The US through its proxies in the UPA is attempting to subvert India's independent economic,foreign and defence policy into becoming a de-facto neo-colonial state .The engineered crash of the rupee and the weakening of the Indian economy is part of the plan to make us further dependent upon western financial institutions and dangle like a hapless marionette.

The 2014 Indian elections will prove to be a watershed in the fate of the nation,whether we descend into chaos,both economic and security-wise,or whether we weather the storm by the swift decision-making of a strong new govt. at the centre.

[CRamS]

Hmm...should we call this sweet revenge ?! Left loonies from overseas have for long contributed to screwing India as a country and shackling her rise. Now, an Indian socialist is on the verge of screwing America up !

http://www.fitsnews.com/2013/11/20/seattle-socialist-boeing-workers-should-rise-up/

Another one of those "argumentative Indians" wanting to get notoriety with "progressive" hot air. But as you say, at least she is doing it against US, and it will only be a matter of time before she is shown her place, and then she might have to send her CV to Tehelka where of course, she can enjoy Jaipur litreray festivals, Indi Today summit, Hindustan Times summit, Goa conclave, you name it, and keep the likes of Tarun Tejpal happy assuming of course he likes her physical assets.

[Karan M]

Hmm...should we call this sweet revenge ?! Left loonies from overseas have for long contributed to screwing India as a country and shackling her rise. Now, an Indian socialist is on the verge of screwing America up !

http://www.fitsnews.com/2013/11/20/seattle-socialist-boeing-workers-should-rise-up/

He he.. good catch..ROTFL moment onlee..

SEATTLE —

Seattle City Councilmember-elect Kshama Sawant told Boeing machinists her idea of a radical option, should their jobs be moved out of state

“The workers should take over the factories, and shut down Boeing’s profit-making machine,” Sawant announced to a cheering crowd of union supporters in Seattle’s Westlake Park Monday night.

-----
On Monday night, she spoke to supporters of Boeing Machinists, six days after they rejected a contract guaranteeing jobs in Everett building the new 777X airliner for eight years, in exchange for new workers giving up their guaranteed company pensions.

Now Boeing is threatening to take those jobs to other states. “That will be nothing short of economic terrorism because it's going to devastate the state's economy,” she said.

Sawant is calling for machinists to literally take-possession of the Everett airplane-building factory, if Boeing moves out. She calls that "democratic ownership."

“The only response we can have if Boeing executives do not agree to keep the plant here is for the machinists to say the machines are here, the workers are here, we will do the job, we don't need the executives. The executives don’t do the work, the machinists do,” she said.

Sawant says after workers “take-over” the Everett Boeing plant; they could build things everyone can use.

“We can re-tool the machines to produce mass transit like buses, instead of destructive, you know, war machines,” she told KIRO 7.

[ramana]

Philip, Very good post. I think you should start a blog. If you need help in setting up one let it be known in OT thread.
ramana

[Cosmo_R]

By the other Chidu:

"Indeed, while much of India remembers and recoils at the American bullying during the Nixon Presidency with the nuclear carrier USS Enterprise in the midst of the 1971 Indo-Pak war, less well recalled is the same aircraft carrier was dispatched to the Bay of Bengal during the Sino-Indian conflict ''to steady Indian nerves,'' according to diplomatic historian Dennis Kux.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 274259.cms

Anyone here remember this as news? I did not but then that was before the dawn of communications

[ramana]

While the steady nerves might be for political minds that needed it, the 1971 was an overt threat for Indian aam admi and very much in public view!!!