Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

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Sachin
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Sachin »

Rishi Verma wrote:K. Michael of Bangaluru, an RBI official, arrested by CBI in money laundering. In other continuing raids, Jaipur and Assam can be included in the list.
As you said, quick prosecution and sentencing is what is required. One picture of this RBI official slowly walking towards a small door of Central Prison, Parappana Agrahara would do wonders to the public perception. SHQ (who works in a bank) has been saying that these kind of deals are worked by officials manning the bank's currency chest (from where they distribute the money to their own branches). And it is the money which should be there at the branches and ATM which is going to these black money hoarders.

My understanding is that the new series notes would have unique serial numbers, and the RBI etc. would be keeping track of which series notes went to which bank. And once the bank has been identified, some good old police work may help them find which wads of notes went to which chest, and from there to which branch.
chetak wrote:Unbelievable that this article has been published in the chindu too.
May be their usual editorial staff has gone to the ATM or bank, while some junior journalist pressed the "approved" button. The Chindu supporting any thing which the current govt. does, is really suspicious.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

in any decent office even moving a chair outside needs a "gate pass" which is checked and logged seriously. we are talking of diverting trunks full of high value currency. not childs play and would need mid and low level "troops" to run the food chain, while higher levels like Michael sir would run the C4I systems, ops reviews and signoffs.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »



we need this on janpath, chikpet, nariman point, worli, anna salai, chowringhee ... public demos of the heavy hand of the state coming down on rich and powerful wrongdoers.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by chetak »

^^^^^^^

The banks have records of all new note serials that came into their branch/ATM and how they were handled and by whom.

RBI has a pretty neat record and trail of the flow including customer details if needed.

The GOI will not rock the boat until the deadline expires.

The net has been cast pretty wide and increasingly, it's started to snare larger and larger fish.

the horror may only now be slowly beginning to dawn on the politicos.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Akshay Kapoor »

Karan M wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:

Dammit. I've got a huge amount of equities in demat account with them. Moved demat from HDFC as sevive was terrible. And equites broker company that we use have account with them. But what fraud can they do with demat. The companies share register will also have records so it should be fine. Don't worry Karan. Should be okay.
Akshay saar if equities then ok, after all they are just a broker i guess. i have invested in their MF. perhaps bank and AMC will be treated separately.

i have some good amount parked in their ELSS funds. this one in particular
http://m.moneycontrol.com/mutual-funds/ ... lan/MAA011

now taking it out and moving to another is pain because most of these chaps ask for physical visits and their online fund deposit always has some con. eg FT India, you get a message saying that if you want cashless deposit to your account, visit a branch. Axis was the easiest setup TBH. SBI is hilarious. their online access is, print this form and submit to branch.

hmmm...wondering if there is some substance to these axis rumors.
Pls email me on akshaykapoor108@gmail.com. I'll share a circular from RBI that my dad whatsapp me.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by JayS »

Karan M wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:

Dammit. I've got a huge amount of equities in demat account with them. Moved demat from HDFC as sevive was terrible. And equites broker company that we use have account with them. But what fraud can they do with demat. The companies share register will also have records so it should be fine. Don't worry Karan. Should be okay.
Akshay saar if equities then ok, after all they are just a broker i guess. i have invested in their MF. perhaps bank and AMC will be treated separately.

i have some good amount parked in their ELSS funds. this one in particular
http://m.moneycontrol.com/mutual-funds/ ... lan/MAA011

now taking it out and moving to another is pain because most of these chaps ask for physical visits and their online fund deposit always has some con. eg FT India, you get a message saying that if you want cashless deposit to your account, visit a branch. Axis was the easiest setup TBH. SBI is hilarious. their online access is, print this form and submit to branch.

hmmm...wondering if there is some substance to these axis rumors.
To add to what Yagnasri saar said before, even if Axis is screwed up and has to be liquidated, the AMC or brokerage biz would be sold off lock stock barrel to some other AMC/brokerage house and its functioning will continue as usual without much difference. I have significant sum invested n same fund and I am not much worried about it right now. Even for banking biz the deposite holders will be screwed only if Axis bank has given out too many bad loans which are not recoverable and there is a large deficit on their books.

Akshay Saar, if you transfer all your equity in the demat vault of NSDL or CDSL whichever you are subscribed to, then it will remain with them and not in the broker's buffer holding (this buffer is used for intraday dealings). Actually demat account is with CDSL/NSDL. Brokers just facilitate the transactions. I have my demat account with CDSL incidentally and it doesn't matter which broker I use, I can link the same account to the broker's system and my equity will remain in the same CDSL account even when I change broker. As such it shouldn't matter whatever happens to ownership of brokarage house as the books will be closed properly before closure happens, but just in case if this gives you piece of mind. You can always open new account with other broker house and link your demat vault to that account. And every quarter there would be settlement and your holding stocks will by default be transferred from broker's buffer to your demat vault with NSDL/CDSL. But you can force this any time you want with one check like instrument they give you when you open account with any broker (I have one with my Angel broker account).
Last edited by JayS on 13 Dec 2016 15:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Akshay Kapoor »

Suraj wrote:
RajeshG wrote:
Kapoor saab and Suraj

How do you think the money mule system worked ?
These people are not mules to begin with. It also entirely discounts what disha said - that people are not interested in being mules.
Chandragupta wrote:Yes, please believe it. For a cut, everybody wants a piece of the gravy train in India. That's been our story since 1947. Why do you think people like Pawar, Yadav, Lalu, Amma, Muka, Didi win elections after elections? Do mango people don't know how corrupt they are?
No sorry. 'Believe it' does not work except when Bhagwan asks for it. Everyone else has to present evidence.

The situation you state and the present are diametrically opposite power dynamics. In the past , the politicians controlled the power. They had the money - real functional money - and the ability to deploy muscle with that money to get their way. People are glad to take some crumbs coming their way then. The people had only one source of power here, and that was to elect the other guy, who had exactly the same sort of power over them too. All the people do in such a situation is alternately elect one or the other to keep them all on their toes, aka 'anti-incumbency'.

With DeMo, politicians don't have money. They have huge bundles of nice printed paper that says '500' or '1000' on it. Just like the 500 and 1000 on Monopoly game notes, and EXACTLY the same value as those game notes, i.e. zero. They have to convince their goons to accept that printed paper and do their bidding, paper that those goons cannot even buy a dozen bananas with. And they have to convince the mango men to also accept the nice printed paper. And they have to make all those people go to bank, get real money out in exchange, and hand it back to them.

And we're supposed to believe that people are collectively too dumb to realize who has the power - them or the politician, in this situation. Modi doesn't care about any of them accumulating some of that ill gotten cash from Mulayam. Even the Kashmiri rageboys and Maoists took just a day to realize that the game is up. All these 'mules' supposedly don't understand they're being handed toilet paper and told to give back real money, and keep a little of that real money. When they could just keep it all.

If you saw above, I posted PMJDY account deposit data. Deposit aggregate has not fallen. It has kept rising week upon week. Unless there is net outflow, there is no proof of the PMJDY mechanism being used. This is what I mean by data. There is no data to support this thesis as plausible to any further extent than converting some chickenfeed amount, definitely not some big fish level amounts...
Plus 100. Disha post about a 'mango' man standing in ques - ration, court et all is most illuminating. And Suraj's points are spot on. The dynamic has changed. And 100s of failure points for Mulayam et all. I'm not denying that there is chance that he can still escape but chances of atleast moderate damage are high. Taken together Disha and Suraj posts give the full emotional and rations context to mango man reaction.

People are not fools.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Yagnasri »

Just spoken with someone with an extensive farming activity going on in their relations. As per him last year his uncle has earned some six lacs on onions and this time there is no one to lift his crop. All the middlemen are simply not interested in purchasing, and lenders are pressuring the farmers to make repayment of loans taken. According to him, there may be suicides etc. this year.

This is in MH wherein all Mandis are under NCP control now. GoMH needs to look into these kinds of activities and make all Mandi activities online only.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Akshay Kapoor »

Jays,grateful if you could email me on akshaykapoor108@gmail.com.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by chetak »

MODINOMICS VS MANMOHANOMICS


MODINOMICS VS MANMOHANOMICS

Wednesday, 07 December 2016 | Sanju Verma | in Oped

Manmohan Singh, while quoting Keynes, gave yet another proof of how the insipid bureaucrat in him is all that is left of a man who started off as an economist and ended up as a servile figure-head. With demonetisation, Modinomics has in fact undone the inept legacy of Singh

The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones”, said John Maynard Keynes. Keynes must have turned in his grave when former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh invoked him in Parliament recently, quoting his famous idiom, “In the long run we are all dead”. Singh used this quote to protest against the Modi Government’s game-changing demonetisation drive, aimed at curbing black money menace in the country, which is estimated at anywhere between 20 per cent to 30 per cent of gross domestic product, if not more.

The former Prime Minister, not known for his oratorial skills or political acumen, gave yet another glaring proof of how the insipid bureaucrat in him is all that is left of a man who started off as an economist and ended up as a servile figure-head, presiding for 10 long years over the most corrupt dispensation in the country.

Coming back to Keynes, Singh and naysayers of his ilk, would do well to know that Keynes was, in fact, amongst the biggest proponents of demonetisation. The essence of Keynesian economics is that while free markets and the private sector have to be the guiding force, state intervention is a must to raise aggregate demand because the private sector alone cannot be the balancing mechanism to provide jobs or growth.

Keynes advocated lower taxes and increased Government spending. In other words, he stressed on the need for a benign fiscal policy by the state, to boost growth and that is precisely what the Narendra Modi Government is doing.

Demonetisation will reduce/eliminate fiscal deficit, lower inflation, make available more funds with the Government for infrastructure and social spending. By ‘formalising’ the informal sector, which is estimated at between 20 per cent to 30 per cent of the overall economy, demonetisation will also boost jobs.

Few know that more than 70 per cent to 90 per cent of the jobs created in India, in most sectors, are those created within the informal sector, with many workers over-worked but under-paid. Demonetisation will re-balance these glaring anomalies, giving growth and jobs, the much-needed impetus, Keynes style.

Keynesian economics relies heavily on two pillars. First, the investment multiplier effect and second, avoiding the ‘liquidity trap’. The investment multiplier theory can be best explained by an example. For instance, if the Government spends/invests additional Rs 100 crore, the additional jump in income, output and employment, will not be limited to Rs 100 crore, but could be Rs 300 crore or Rs 400 crore or maybe more, depending on whether the multiplier is three or four or even higher. Higher the marginal propensity to consume/save, higher the ‘multiplier’ and higher the impact on overall GDP, of any fresh spending by the Government.

Demonetisation is an ode to Keynes and will, in the medium term, essentially, via the multiplier effect, boost GDP in a manner than can alter the entire growth paradigm in India to far higher than eight per cent, notwithstanding the interim hiccups.

Speaking of ‘liquidity trap’, well, it is simply a situation where low interest rates fail to stimulate consumer spending because of poor velocity of money, which means money does not change hands often, due to overall slack in the economy. Post the global financial meltdown of 2008, much of the developed world, including the US and Europe, got into a ‘liquidity trap’, wherein despite zero/negative interest rates, growth faltered and how. No wonder that despite the US Fed expanding its balance sheet by more than four trillion dollars in the last eight years, US GDP averaged at just 2.4 per cent in 2014 and 2015.

Unemployment rate in the US is less than five per cent, not because more jobs have been created, but because more people stopped looking for a job. More than 48 million people in the US survive on food stamps. If Japan had two lost decades from 1991-2010, the US has in the last eight years straddled between disinflation and recession, because Obamanomics relied on merely low interest rates and quantitative easing to do the trick. That one trick pony, obviously, failed.

By opting for demonetisation and not rampant deficit financing, Modinomics has in one fell sweep, averted the liquidity trap and the problems that Obamanomics could not. Deficit spending certainly increases money supply but may or may not increase growth whereas demonetisation increases the velocity of money, which means money exchanges hands more frequently within the formal channels of the economy, ultimately boosting national income, output and employment, with no ‘ifs or buts’, whatsoever.

Again, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to know that in a country of 1.27 billion people and counting, if less than 500 million people are regular income tax payers, there is something horribly wrong and that needed fixing...that “something” is what Manmohanomics miserably failed to do...and that “something” is precisely what Modinomics chooses to do, via demonetisation, GST, benami transactions amendment, bankruptcy code, Aadhaar, Jan Dhan Yojana, merging Forward Markets Commission with Sebi, amendments in Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement agreements with Cyprus, Luxembourg, Mauritius et al and the like. And yes, that “something” is nothing but the political spine to bell the cat.

Modinomics trumps Manmohanomics on virtually every count. Despite a strong dollar rally in November, the rupee lost only 2.5 per cent, compared to say the Chinese yuan which recently touched a eight-year low. In August 2013, in the wake of a dollar rally then, the rupee had plunged by 8.1per cent in a single month! Also, India’s forex chest has soared from 289 billion dollars in 2013 to a robust 367 billion dollars, as on 11th November. This is not all. Consumer inflation, CPI, has fallen by more than 50 per cent from from 11.16 per cent in November 2013 to 4.2 per cent in October, with food inflation in the same period falling from 14.72 per cent to just 3.32 per cent.

Inflation is the most regressive tax that hits the poorest the hardest and by dramatically reining in inflation via APMC reforms, Modinomics has undone the inept legacy of Singh and the erstwhile corrupt Congress-led UPA Government that faltered between Nehruvian Leftism and Fabian socialism.

Even on other parameters like CAD, current account deficit, Manmohanomics paints a grim picture. For December 2013 quarter, India’s CAD came in at a dangerous 6.7 per cent, with overall CAD for 2012-2013, coming in at 4.8 per cent, pushing India to the precipice of disaster, on the external front. Even fiscal deficit in 2011-2012 and 2012-13, were hugely worrisome at 5.7 per cent and 4.9 per cent. Due to India’s pathetic track record on the CAD and fiscal deficit fronts, India’s global standing and international credit ratings, suffered a huge jolt in those years.

Thanks to Modinomics, more than $300 billion has come into India by way of sticky long-term FDI inflows in the last 2.5 years and for good reason! India’s CAD in September quarter was just 0.1 per cent of GDP and for 2016-17,it is expected to be a mere 0.5 per cent of GDP.

Even on the fiscal front, the Modi Government has,without compromising growth, reined in the fiscal deficit to a mere 3.9 per cent of GDP in 2015-16, on-course to fall further to 3.5 per cent in 2016-17.

The most exemplary performance of the Narendra Modi Government is reflected in the fact that, while India’s external debt rose from $409 billion in March 2013 to $486 billion in March, India’s debt service ratio during this period improved by leaps and bounds from just 5.9 to a solid 8.8. Short-term debt to total debt fell from 23.6 per cent in March 2013 to barely 17.2 per cent this year. RIP Nehruvian socialism! RIP Manmohanomics! Hail Modinomics!

(The writer is an economist and chief spokesperson for BJP, Mumbai unit
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 109_1.html

Axis Bank, India's top importer of gold
, has suspended the bank accounts of some bullion dealers and jewellers after two of its executives at a branch were arrested over alleged money laundering.

The move is likely to curtail imports by the world's second-biggest gold consumer this month and could weigh on global prices already near their lowest level in ten months.

"We have temporarily suspended transactions in a few current accounts as a part of a larger enhanced due diligence exercise being conducted on transactions post-demonetisation," the bank said in an e-mailed reply to questions from Reuters.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi scrapped 500-rupee and 1,000-rupee banknotes on Nov. 8 in a bid to flush out cash earned through illegal activities, or earned legally but never disclosed to tax authorities.

There have also been reports of people rushing to buy gold by paying as much as a 50 percent premium above official prices using their unaccounted money to skirt the note ban.

Axis did not directly comment on the arrests. Last week the Enforcement Directorate, a government agency that fights financial crime, said it had arrested two Axis bank employees for allegedly helping launderers to buy gold with the help of scrapped notes.

The bank said the suspended gold dealers' accounts will be restored over the next few days after an "enhanced due diligence process".

A Chennai-based bullion dealer, who declined to be named, said the bank had frozen his account without giving a reason. Half a dozen other dealers in Kolkata, Mumbai, Ahmadabad and New Delhi also confirmed the freezing of their Axis accounts.

The move has brought bullion trading to a standstill, with jewellers fearing attention from government agencies if they make large purchases, said Harshad Ajmera, the proprietor of JJ Gold House, a wholesaler in the eastern Indian city of Kolkata.

It is estimated that one-third of India's annual demand of around 800 tonnes is paid for in "black money" - the local term for untaxed funds held in cash by citizens that do not appear in any official accounts.

Jewellers and bullion dealers are deferring purchases and gold imports in December could fall to 30 tonnes, down from 107 tones in the same month a year ago, said a Mumbai-based dealer.

In November the country's gold imports jumped to around 100 tonnes, the highest in 11 months.

Axis, India's third-biggest private sector bank, said last week it had suspended 19 employees over alleged breaches at one of its branches in implementing a government-ordered exchange of high-value bank notes.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ind ... 939578.cms

MUMBAI: Axis BankBSE 1.74 % on Monday slammed a regional newspaper report stating authorities were preparing to revoke the bank's licence as "false and malafide", saying it had strong systems and controls in place as per central bank rules.

Axis, India's third-biggest private sector bank, said last week it had suspended some 19 employees over alleged breaches at one of its branches in implementing a government-ordered exchange of high-value bank notes.

The statement by ..

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

NDTV

JAIPUR: In the ongoing series of crackdown on currency note hoarders, the Income Tax Department on Monday seized over Rs. 1.50 crore from a cooperative bank in Jaipur, an official source said.

"Out of this, over Rs. 1.30 crore was recovered in the new currency notes, most of which were Rs. 2,000 notes," he said.

It is one of the biggest seizures by the IT Department in the state.


The search at the bank was going on and the accounts were being scrutinised when the reports last came in.

"We have also seized gold and jewellery worth lakhs from an anonymous locker," the source added.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Sicanta »

It will be good if Zee News/ Doodarshan can put together 1 hr show detailing out these arrests and further measures being taken by the government to deal with the menace.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 48359.html

NEW DELHI: The Central Economic Intelligence Bureau under the Finance Ministry along with other officials conducted pan India sting operations in PSU bank branches to detect illegal exchange of demonetized notes and money laundering.

Sources said officials were sent to various banks in cities such as Mumbai, Delhi, and Bengaluru, and states such as Tamil Nadu, Gujarat, West Bengal, and Uttar Pradesh, as decoy customers asking bank officials to convert or give new currency note. Details of these operations have been handed over to the Prime Minister’s office and Finance ministry, sources said.

“Whole procedure was initiated after Prime Minister Narendra Modi showed concern about the reason why queues were not ending and people are not getting money. Also, the government was worried about huge seizures in the form of new currency during raids,” a senior government official said.

“Nearly, 500 bank branches of all public and private sector banks have been covered and a detailed report was given to PMO and finance ministry," officials added.

The government is planning to take action against banks apart from individual officers involved in illicit exchange of notes.

The move came two weeks after the government decided to trap bank officials involved in illegally distributing new currency to people trying to convert black money.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by jamwal »

In third raid on Delhi lawyer, Rs 13.5 crore seized

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... mpaign=TOI
A little known lawyer whom many could not recognise by name in the Supreme Court or the Delhi high court where he claimed to have a "thriving practice" was caught by I-T authorities a third time with a hoard of unaccounted cash, stashed in bundles of banned Rs 500 and Rs 1,000 notes as well as in wads of Rs 2,000, totalling at least Rs 13.48 crore.
A joint team of the I-T department and Delhi police's crime branch found cabinets and secret chests at Rohit Tandon's office in the upscale GK-1 area filled with notes on Sunday. Several cartons containing cash were also found. The police said Tandon had gone underground. Search is on for him.
Delhi Police had kept Tandon under surveillance for at least two months, ever since the I-T department made a stunning haul of Rs 125 crore in its first raid on the lawyer on October 7. Sunday's raid was the third on him, the second being two weeks ago and yielding Rs 19 crore in unaccounted income.
The involvement of police in what would have normally been treated as a tax matter is part of a new trend where the I-T department has brought in the CBI and the ED to crack cases which, while being essentially about tax evasion, seems to also involve criminality.
I-T officials are flummoxed at how Tandon managed to collect Rs 2.61crore in newly minted Rs 2,000 notes+ . Complicity of bank officials has not been ruled out and some top bank functionaries may be arrested. The first raid came within a week of the Income Disclosure Scheme coming to an end. The IDS was an opportunity for people to declare their black money by September 30. At the time, the I-T department had claimed that it had come across documents suggesting money laundering. Tandon had, however, refused to respond to queries sent by TOI. After the first two searches, Tandon had declared Rs 144 crore in unaccounted income. With Sunday's seizure, the total unaccounted income recovered from the lawyer has touched Rs 157 crore. Tandon had become a talking point when TOI, in its edition on October 20, reported his disclosure of Rs 125 crore in unaccounted income a few days after the raid on his premises. The raids was part of a coordinated attack on 'fixers' and middlemen ruling 'Delhi circles'.

He was on the department's radar for some time, particularly after he had purchased a property in Delhi's tony Jor Bagh for a consideration believed to be more than Rs 100 crore.
Tandon's connections and his financial transactions were still being trailed when I-T officials made another search of his bank lockers and discovered new accounts. The second search led to seizure of Rs 19 crore from banks. The third I-T raids and police searches began on Saturday night and continued through Sunday.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by SSharma »

^^ haha this guy is something else
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

could be one of the bagmen of the AAP
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

foreign MSM like forbes, bloomberg, quartz etc have been activate to run down demon and modi.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by hanumadu »

Regarding the tandon guy - Read on twitter the law firm was started by sons of a High court judge and Income Tax commissioner.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by UlanBatori »

I-witnej account from center of central town of central Malloostan: closest branch of sarkari yindian baink to the jam-packed market center. Reached baink at like 10:45 AM on Tuesdin, after watching an hour of TV showing bibis hyperventilating about Expecting Heavy Rush, same CNN-style repeated clips of long lines and ppl cursing and shoving and looking angry.

No one in the expected line around the block. No one at the foot of the stairs. No one on the stairs. No one in front of the teller's cage. No one at the counters. Manager sitting back looking peaceful. ATM standing forlorn with sign saying "This Machine Limited to Rs. 2000 Onlee Yaar!"

"First priority is to get as much cash as you can give me".
"Saar, you know the situation here.. v can give onlee 24,000."
"Oh, that would be great, but can you give me that much?"
"Of course. How do u want it? 500s will only come tomorrow, but we can give you 2000s, 100s, 20s..."
Got it in 5 minutes flat, nicely packed.
In the whole hour spent there (because relatives had unrelated bijnej to transact) not a soul came to use the ATM.
Applied for ATM cards, promised in 10 bijnej days, let's see.
IOW, NaMo has won.

OTOH, it IS India and sarkari baink still. One young man came politely into Mgr's office, enraged after getting the run-around from bank underlings. "Net banking naat working on my phone phor last month!" After much swiping and unswiping of Smart Phone screen and entering hajaar codes etc, turned out that it was an RBI holiday, but anyway he was sent away to try again tomorrow and return if he still had problems. So much for wonderful cashless transactions, I immediately decided to skip plans to get the phone-based USSD etc until I have seen more people use such things.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Primus »

disha wrote:
I have pointed it out in other forums that the common person sees NaMo as fighting on their behalf and they will not let go of a person fighting on their behalf even if the person is losing a fight. It is the intention that counts. Efforts towards that intention that counts. Mistakes will be forgiven.

It is the chatterati and the lootyens and the elites like us who have suddenly woken up and asked - hey look at the poor who are standing in line at the bank! Heck, I used to stand in line for the ration (oil/sugar) for hours together and remember the frustration that on reaching the doors of the shop., one look at me and the shop owner says - we are out of oil/sugar! I stood in bank lines and in train lines and lines at the court.

So for me standing in a bank line where the unfair price shop owner (ration shop owner) gets a fair deal by NaMo even for a day makes my year.
Exactly. People perceive this as a struggle for their betterment. Finally, here is a leader who truly believes in 'sabka vikaas' and is working towards that goal instead of just paying lip service.

Not meaning to trivialize the difficulties the common man is having after Demo, but people have always lined up for things that are in short supply, happens all over the world. Heck even I remember lining up for hours for the latest Amitabh Bachchan movie in my younger days. All depends upon what is at the end of the line.
Last edited by Primus on 13 Dec 2016 20:32, edited 1 time in total.
prahaar
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by prahaar »

Second hand report, my father visits a nationalized bank in a large city in Gujarat. Goes in with a cheque book, he is told 23,000 can be given immediately if he needs it. This happened one day after the limit was raised to 24,000.

I have not heard about horrible inconvenience from ANYONE on the Whatsapp groups consisting of assorted demographics. Paucity of cash is not a topic of discussion. Only once I remember a private clinic doctor sharing a clip from Anand Sharma in RS, raising questions about Demonetization. I am not insinuating anything, just presenting anecdotal evidence. The shops in the vicinity (yes the much maligned Kirana stores who are supposed to be heavily hit and who have lot of BM), are happily giving change for 2000 notes. They also have a system of logbook/paper-slip to track the change due. This was the modus operandi before demonetization, it continues to be the same even now.

About phone banking, my parents have not yet switched to online payments, they are still in cash and carry mode. I would like to wait until things settle down and a robust/easy solution is established (as they are not very fluent with typing on touch-pad).

About NaMo: my father is a supporter but my mother worries about him :-), such change in attitude for him not for anyone before NaMo (except may be Savarkar).
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Deans »

chetak wrote:
Deans wrote:
The people best placed to weed out fake accounts are the bank audit teams themselves. My feeling is that Axis will be anxious to cooperate
with the authorities as their reputation has already taken a hit. I don't believe regular bank customers need to worry.
rather like hiring the fox to audit the hen coop, right?? :)
Axis bank laundering was discovered by accident. The authorities might not have stumbled upon it otherwise. Financial fraud is difficult for an
outsider to prove and much as I dislike the idea, in my view, the best option is to read out the riot act to the Axis management and get their
total cooperation.
The problem also is we don't know how many other bank branches have done something similar.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Philip »

Mr.Modi and the RBI underestimated the ingenuity of the Indian to find loopholes and every which way possible to hoodwink the govt. in concealing income and beating the system.

Here,our bankers have been willing conduits as they're the ones who've really made "windfall gains"! The news that even an official of the RBI has been involved comes as no surprise.I seriously wonder how much of the old currency was actually destroyed and with connivance,has not returned to be re-deposited again and again. In a nation so large,so diverse and so poor on any kind of infrastructure,repair and maintenance of the same,changing everyone into e-paying is as difficult as trying to make a super-tanker turn course 180 deg. on a penny.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by chetak »

Deans wrote:
chetak wrote:
rather like hiring the fox to audit the hen coop, right?? :)
Axis bank laundering was discovered by accident. The authorities might not have stumbled upon it otherwise. Financial fraud is difficult for an
outsider to prove and much as I dislike the idea, in my view, the best option is to read out the riot act to the Axis management and get their
total cooperation.
The problem also is we don't know how many other bank branches have done something similar.
virtually every bank has it's bad eggs and lots of bank employees are loath to let such a golden opportunity pass by without getting a taste.

Otherwise such wholesale diversion of new notes could never have taken place.

also, some of the private banks seem over eager to cooperate with their customers and some banks like axis never had money in their ATMs anywhere. Considering their size and deposit base, that by itself would have raised queries.

The PSU bank employees really seem to have cleaned up and are now ruing their recent activities.

The RBI has just now ordered that ALL video and CCTV footage be preserved for examination and tracking of notes that have been disbursed thru that branch.

I expect cardiologists and chemists to make a killing dispensing beta blockers to such over eager and model employees.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by jamwal »

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... ed/472657/


Hawala operator arrested, Rs 5.70 crore in new currency seized
CBI today arrested an alleged hawala operator K V Veerendra in connection with seizure of Rs 5.70 crore of new currency notes of Rs 2000 denomination from his premises in Karanataka. The agency sources said CBI has registered a case against officials of four banks–State Bank of India, State Bank of Mysore, ICICI Bank and Kotak Mahindra Bank.
They said Veerendra was produced before Special court in Bengaluru which has sent him to six days of CBI custody for questioning.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by jamwal »

Press Trust of India
‏@PTI_News
Rs 12.44 lakh crore collected at banks in #demonetised notes as of today: RBI's Gandhi.
https://twitter.com/PTI_News/status/808629505036144640
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Sachin »

Rs. 12.44 lakh crore in demonetised notes collected at banks
The local Malayalam news portlets seems to go with the usual story, that the higher the value of notes coming in it really means that the whole exercise was a failure.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by prahaar »

Can we think of feature descriptions that can be used to generate a template of SQL queries for diagnozing clusters of "related transactions"? This is a great research database for Big data professionals to validate their clustering algorithms.

Looking at the logs of cash distribution nodes (which supply to the next hierarchical level National->State->District->Branch) can help identify misappropriation of cash to a few accounts. It also depends on the banking software time-out constants (e.g., when cash is dispatched how soon does it reflect in the actual DB). But even if there is a daily baseline routine, the erring higher level officials can be accounted for within a delay of maximum two days.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

Sire the legions of ITvity on ORR stand ready to serve the nation :) - whether its RBDMS or new age "hadoop type stuff" or even nosql stuff like cassandra, there are people willing and able to mine data.

the same way passport issuing was cleaned up, same way the banking audit and income tax tracking can be cleaned up.

"deploy" 25k "troops" from ORR, 25k from Tidel chennai , 25k in mumbai, 25k in Hyd and you will have a distributed 100k army

Namo would be wise to trust these young shoulders to clean the mess.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by JohnTitor »

disha wrote:DeMo followed by GST will plug the leakages. Only leakages will be in Edu Institutes, Hospitals and RE. And Opposition has sensed it and hence they are not allowing GST to go through.
I thought GST laws were already passed.. states passed their version too (?)

Now its just setting the rates by the committee, no?
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by shravanp »

jamwal wrote:http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... ed/472657/


Hawala operator arrested, Rs 5.70 crore in new currency seized
CBI today arrested an alleged hawala operator K V Veerendra in connection with seizure of Rs 5.70 crore of new currency notes of Rs 2000 denomination from his premises in Karanataka. The agency sources said CBI has registered a case against officials of four banks–State Bank of India, State Bank of Mysore, ICICI Bank and Kotak Mahindra Bank.
They said Veerendra was produced before Special court in Bengaluru which has sent him to six days of CBI custody for questioning.

Why are maximum raids being reported from Karnatak?
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by prahaar »

Eminently tweet worthy content. Should I do the honors Singhaji or are you on Twitter?
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Sachin »

I am getting a feeling that the media is building a narrative that if the majority of the so called black money lands up in the banking system, that itself has made "demonitisation drive" a failure. The media seems to rely upon the the initial estimates of the RBI, on how much notes is expected to come back. But did RBI gave any statements (official) saying how much money they expect to stay out of the system? My understanding is that if the money (black or white) has been properly landed up in the accounts of an individual, things can still be salvaged. But there would be good dependency on the IT dept, Enforcement Directorate babus to get the culprits pay up. But if a large sum of money has been "laundered", like what the worthies in Bengaluru did, then we have some serious issues :). Just like all the other schemes so far, media is once again twisting the story while the government does NOT seem to do much to counter it.
JohnTitor wrote:I thought GST laws were already passed.. states passed their version too (?)
GST required amendments in the Constitution, and these changes were the ones which were passed by the two houses of Parliament & by a large number of state assemblies. So now looks like it is a constitutional mandate to implement GST by end of year 2017 (?). Now based on the Constitution ; Centre and states would have to draw up the taxation laws. And my understanding is that a state cannot make a law passed by the Centre invalid in its territory, and if it modifies a provision of a central Act, then it has to be approved by the President. States like Kerala (for eg:) and its finance minister has been threatening to boycott GST do not seem have much provisions to hold back the GST roll out. Rabble rousing is what they could do at best.
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

^^ go ahead...I am not on twitter

ANI ‏@ANI_news 2h2 hours ago
Rs 52 lakhs in 2000 notes seized in Hyderabad by Police from a gang of 10 dacoits. All 10 have been arrested

Image
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

ANI ‏@ANI_news 2h2 hours ago
CBI registers case against cashier of Bank of Baroda branch in Kolkata, over charges of converting currency #demonetisation
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

ANI ‏@ANI_news 2h2 hours ago
#UPDATE CBI has registered 10 cases involving bank officials & post offices in Bengaluru & Hyderabad seizing 17.36 crores #DeMonetisation
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

ANI ‏@ANI_news 3h3 hours ago
Ulhasnagar (Thane): Rs 9.76 Lakh recovered in new 2000 notes, Police arrested 3 people. #Maharashtra #DeMonetisation
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Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Singha »

ANI ‏@ANI_news 3h3 hours ago
Higher denomination of Rs 2000 and 500, we have issued 1.7 billion notes in this period: R Gandhi, RBI #DeMonetisation

ANI ‏@ANI_news 3h3 hours ago
Of which 20.1 billion pieces belong to small denominations of Rs 10, 20s, 50s, 100s: R Gandhi, RBI
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