Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2010

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svenkat
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by svenkat »

vina wrote: Another thing to consider is that many of the Dalits in West Punjab converted to Christianity (the Aisia Bibis and the other Christians being harassed , murdered, raped etc and in Pakistan are all Dalits). That is the choice Dalits made to stay in Pakistan , because being Hindu there wasn't tenable. A poor choice I'd say , maybe they should have become Muslims. They are now being persecuted for being Christian. See despite all the protestations of equality and egalitarianism, nearly all Islamic societies, especially Pakistan is highly unequal and very tribal and your station of birth largely determines your life. Not much social mobility etc.

It is ironic that in India where despite the stereotypes, the caste strictures have loosened tremendously and "lower caste" /"dalit"/"disadvantaged background" because of democracy is a viable means of social empowerment and mobility, in Pakistan, the "caste" system morphed and merged perfectly into an Arabized tribalism into a pitiless social structure that is deeply oppressive and fundamentally cruel.

Think of this Aisia Bibi case. She fetched water from a well, some of her fellow laborers insulted her/humiliated her calling her "unclean" (was she "unclean" because she is Dalit or Chrisitian or both and the Muslims feel "cleaner") and the rest is history.. resulting in the death of Salmaan Taseer.

It is amazing how this works in Islamic societies. In Iran, the Zorastrians and Jews are "unclean" and socially segregated , barred for schools and public pools,societies etc, consigned to the margins doing absolutely menial and degrading jobs (like the Christian Dalits in Pakistan, largely consigned to manual scavenging of human waste).. for eg most of the waste cleaners /gargbage collectors/recyclers are Copts in Egyt. There was an entire NYT article on that when the Swine Flu hit egpyt and the effects on the copts when they ordered all their pigs to be killed.

Bad enough as it is, there is no social mobility possible for those minority groups because in Islamic states , that is forbidden for non muslims by religious law!.
That is why Taseers concern is pure ,unadulterated fake.Regarding choice for dalits in Pakistan,many had converted during British days.Some dalits did cross over to India.I remember reading a novel by someone called Chaman Nahal which described the exodus of Hindus/Sikhs and dalits were part of the exodus.Why werent the dalits forced to convert to Islam?Every society has to face some unaswerable questions but it is Porkistan which ignores,suppresses such questions.Let alone poverty,Pakistan=intellectual shunya.

In our Punjab,the dalits are far better off.It is completely off topic to discuss caste here.Porkistan has retained the worst features of caste while the positive elements of Hindu heritage are wearing off very fast.It is the Hindu elements,which in the first place got the 'moderately enlightened' tag.

Why didnt Taseer express sympathy for the Hindus,Sikhs,Baloch,Baltis who are being killed everyday? Aasia Bibi was a nice glamorous issue to parade the false liberalism before goras to get more certificates and dollars?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by jamwal »

krisna wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/30/opini ... ven30.html

First some wierd logic

Pakistani officers from captain to lieutenant general have told me that the entry of U.S. ground forces into Pakistan in pursuit of the Taliban and Al Qaeda is by far the most dangerous scenario for both Pakistan-U.S. relations and the unity of the Pakistani Army. As one retired general explained, drone attacks, though ordinary officers and soldiers find them humiliating, are not a critical issue because the Pakistani military cannot do anything about them.

U.S. ground forces inside Pakistan are a different matter because the soldiers can do something about them,” he said. “They can fight. And if they don’t fight, they will feel utterly humiliated before their wives, mothers, children. It would be a matter of honor, which as you know is a tremendous thing in our society. These men have sworn an oath to defend Pakistani soil. So they would fight. And if the generals told them not to fight, many of them would mutiny, starting with the Frontier Corps.”
.
They surely did a lot in 1971 :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Assassination Deepens Divide in Pakistan

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/world ... istan.html
Many of the nation’s top politicians, including Mr. Taseer’s chief rival in Punjab and the leader of the opposition, Nawaz Sharif, did not attend the services. Neither did President Asif Ali Zardari, a friend and ally of Mr. Taseer, but out concern for his own security.

Government ministers and party officials indicated that they were dropping the campaign to change the blasphemy laws that Mr. Taseer had championed. No senior official would be drawn to comment on the religious extremist aspect of the killing at the funeral. Those who did comment, indicated a shift in the government position, by suggesting the killing was a political murder and a conspiracy, rather than a religiously motivated attack.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureishi avoided all comment and merely expressed his condolences to the family when approached by journalists. The Interior Minister, Rehman Malik, went as far as to say he would shoot any blasphemer himself.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Sanku »

Hmm too many interrelated points, let me take them one by one, simplest first.
ravi_ku wrote:There was excitement in BR some 2 years ago during Bhutto collapse days that Pakistan as a state will collapse. All I am seeing is a redux of that excitement, without any look at ground realities.
And at that time I was one of the few who did not share the optimism, in fact quite clearly predicted that it would not happen.

However;
ravi_ku wrote: At the most what will happen will happen is another Zia style/Iran/Saudi (in greater green) fashion.
To the WEST Zia/Iran/Saudi are NOT same (to you and me maybe yes) -- what is important to realize is that the west always has Good Barbarians, and BAD barbarians.

It was perfectly happy with Taliban till 26/11 post which they became evil incarnate, with ZERO change in Taliban's orientation.

IFF (if and only if) -- Pakistan does indeed become Iran (remember at this point of time we are assuming that it will be, whether that assumption is justified will be seen later) -- Pakistan will lose 2 1/2 friends.

West can not handle a truly independent state, and if it happens to be a Islamist anti-Xian Crusade type state then even more so.
Pakistan as a state is NOT going to collapse without external stimulus.
Disagree, it is now ripe for transition to Iran.

Post which slow changes will occur.

Now what is my prediction

1) Pakistan will slowly become a far "worse" version of Iran, it will be more fanatical than Iran in its Sunni-Wahabbi identity. It will be worse than Somalia in the the destitution that will result and far more human fodder for conducting mayhem. It will have access to nukes and will know war fighting in the "modern" sense of the word.

In short Pakistan is heading towards becoming the absolute monster that was inevitable when Jinaah acted as midwife for child based on Indian land and Wahabbi semen.

Whether you consider it unraveling of Pakistan or its greatest moment an eventual "tryst with destiny" is for the observer's perspective.

====================

However, the "RAPE" are finished. I know RAPE well, I dine with them often etc etc.

They live in a la la land, behaving like what their Hindu forefathers who converted to Islam -- superior to rest of the Hindu's but not quite really willing to be Islamist in real sense, only using Islam as a method of gaining privileges from Sultan etc.

Their goose is cooked. Well and truly.

And I can only say -- Ameen.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by jamwal »

Sanku saar,
What is the time line for these events ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by vera_k »

Brad Goodman wrote:after Siddharth Varadrajan here is another fundu

Time to span distance by Kuldip Nayyar
Do these two visit Pakistan frequently? It occurred to me that they would have to appear sympathetic to the Islamist cause in order to avoid being targetted while in that country.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Sanku »

jamwal wrote:Sanku saar,
What is the time line for these events ?
In my opinion (and based on what G Parthasarthy mentioned yesterday on US plans for gradual withdrawal and making Pak redundant to its battle plans)

Start: 2013-14
Bloom: + 5(+/-1-2) years from start.

===========

PS> G Parthsarthy is God
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

What those 2 don't understand is that as Hindus they are seen only as worthy of scorn. Being blind to that is something that they have diliberately chosen to be. What the reasons for that is something even they won't truly understand.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Pratyush »

Sanku,

wasn't there a senario in pre 9/11 which pridected the collapse of the TSP by 2012. I think it was titled playing the Nuke baok tune or something similar.

Was discussed on BRF arround that time.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Anujan »

^^^^

The more important indicator to look at is inflation. Especially if accompanied by food price rise in the summer. Their DekhoNoMoney situation is really dire. Unkil is trying what he can by accelerating this years tranche of Carry-Logger money.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Vikas »

I think Once in every decade, Pakistan goes thru this cycle of being on absolute brink with D&G predictions and 3.5 pulling it back starting right from the day it was born.
Who knows for once, there might not be any brink and the land beneath the Paki feet gives away faster than any plans in Foggy bottoms.

Revolution or no revolution, The RAPE will adapt themselves to the new realities or new RAPE will be born. A Pakistan without RAPE would be a dichotomy in nature.
The end for Pakistan would not come without Indian Intervention. It is the Karma that we both owe to each other.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by RajeshA »

The Pakistan Prophecy:

... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives …
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by rohiths »

Pakistan has already collapsed and is a failed state. :twisted:
Waiting for it to collapse is a futile exercise. It is now only a geographic entity. The people of the geographic entity have entered into a social contract whereby there is a central power and a social class to maintain the status quo.
The only "collapse" that can happen is to get out of this equilibrium into a stone age level society.
This collapse when it occurs will transform Pakistan into a stateless region like Somalia & Afghanistan.
If not for oil and natural gas, the whole of middle east and central asia would also be in that state.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Murugan »

Lawyers showered rose petals on taseer's assasin in the courtroom.

The assassin of the outspoken Pakistani governor was showered with rose petals by lawyers and people as he made his appearance in a court room to face murder charges, laying bare the increasing radicalisation of the Pakistani society.

Mumtaz Qadri, the police bodyguard who killed the Punjab governor Salman Taseer, appeared unrepentant in court, where waiting lawyers showered him with rose petals and others in the crowd slapped his back and kissed his cheek as he was led out amid heavy security, British newspaper The Guardian reported.

The paper said that religious organisations applauded the murder of the moderate governor and hailed his killer as 'Ghazi', religious warrior underscoring Pakistan's journey from a nation defined by moderate Islam to one increasingly influenced by fundamentalists.

The internet in Pakistan has been flooded by fan pages for Qadri, with one facebook page attracting over 2,000 followers before being taken down and there were even small demonstrations in favour of the killer in the country's turbulent Northwest.

While the big mainstream political parties condemned the murder and a tearful thousands attended his funeral, the big and small religious outfits declared that he deserved to be killed for his views.

The Guardian quoting police officials said that Qadri, 26, was a known radical in the police service who had previously been declared unfit by superiors for guarding VIPs. Qadri told interrogators that he was proud to have killed a blasphemer.

"We pay rich tributes and salute the bravery, valour and faith of Mumtaz Qadri," acclaimed Jamaate Ahle Sunnat Pakistan, one of the biggest organisations of Barelvi, representing 500 religious scholars.

The assassination has further deepened turmoil in nuclear-armed Pakistan, where the economy is barely scraping by and suicide attacks by Islamic extremist groups are mounting.

The government is struggling with the collapse of its ruling coalition.

"Words like liberal and secular have become demonised in the nation," The Guardian said quoting political leaders.


http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_la ... ls_1491015

nara-e-takbeer AoA


PS:
(I wish guradian and other UKstani media write a PS after reporting every pukistani incident
"Pakistan - a creation of UKstan")
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by AjayKK »

Murugan wrote:Lawyers showered rose petals on taseer's assasin in the courtroom.
The lawyers are true followers of one of the many Fathers of Pakistan - MA Jinnah..

When the book "Rangeela Rasool" was written in 1923, a case of "blasphemous criticism of a particular religion" was lodged against the publisher Raj Pal. The Lahore HC dismissed the case which caused massive taqleef to many people. Ghazi Ilm-ud-din, a carpenter by profession, took a dagger and killed Raj Pal on September 6, 1929. He got a death sentence.

At this point, since he had become a hero, MA Jinnah stepped in to defend Ghazi Ilm-ud-din. Unfortunately, Jinnah's taqiya did not foind favour with Ghazi Ilm-ud-din or the judges either. Finally on 31 October 1929, Ghazi Ilm-ud-din became shaheed and future pakistan got one more hero who killed a person accused of blasphemy.

Even the Wikipedia article fixes shaheed to his name :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazi_Ilm-ud-din_Shaheed

So it will be Shaheed Malik Mumtaz Hussain Qadri and his trial should provide some relief and diversion to the mango aadmi/awrat from the affairs of the failed state.

But isn't showering rose petals blasphemy itself, since a person is being elevated to the level of the Prophet?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by RajeshA »

AjayKK wrote:But isn't showering rose petals blasphemy itself, since a person is being elevated to the level of the Prophet?
What?!! :-? They had roses in the desert!

Showering of rose petals is strictly Kufr!

After the rose petal shower from the Kufr Barelvis, Mumtaz Qadri has now become Kufr. He too needs to meet his maker. Besides he showed none of the zeal of real martyrs - the soosai bombers. Tsccheeee, I am feeling disgusted over writing about such Kufr stuff.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by SSridhar »

AjayKK wrote:Even the Wikipedia article fixes shaheed to his name :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazi_Ilm-ud-din_Shaheed
Like the incomparable journalist Barkha Dutt would say, "Your assassins are their shaheeds"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Vikas »

Can they hang someone in Pakistan if he acts to defend honor of Islam? After all you don't get death sentence if you claim to have slit a womans throat to defend families honor.
If Jinnah stepped in to defend Ilamudin, Then obviously he meant that all future killers of a person accused of blasphemy should be released with highest honor. After all this is what Hadiths are all about.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by anupmisra »

svenkat wrote:Why werent the dalits forced to convert to Islam?
Because the newly formed nation of pa'astan with its hordes of pure and unwashed millions would need an army of toilet cleaners, street sweepers and excreta collectors, a job that no believer was willing to perform. Hence, the dalits converts to Christianity were left alone.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by RajeshA »

Published on Jan 06, 2011
By Zeeshan Javaid
Religious parties unite to protect Qadri: Daily Times
Sunni Ittehad Council (SIC), a Bralevi sect party, called a meeting for tomorrow (Friday), likely to be held in Rawalpindi to discuss the fallout of the assassination of the Punjab governor.

Senior SIC member Haji Hanif Tayeb told Daily Times by phone that Sahibzada Fazal Karim would chair the meeting and then it would be decided whether to support Qadri or otherwise. The Tahafuz-e-Namoos-e-Risalat Mahaz, a forum of Bralevi school of thought, also seemed determined to protect Qadri. Maulana Raghib Naeemi told Daily Times that anarchy would increase in society if some one tried to amend the blasphemy law. “It is a principled decision of the Mahaz to support Qadri,” Naeemi categorically stated. Jamaat-e-Islami Ameer, Syed Munawar Hassan, justified Qadri’s act, saying Salmaan Taseer himself had to be blamed for his fate.

In a press statement, he said Taseer’s views on the blasphemy law provoked Qadri into killing him. Badshahi Masjid Khateeb Maulana Abul Khabir Azad asked the government not to amend the blasphemy law, as it would hurt the sentiments of 180 million people of Pakistan.
I don't know, I can't sleep knowing all that what the family of Malik Mumtaz Qadri would be going through knowing he is in police custody, being harassed for doing his religious duty.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by shravan »

Chaos over Mumtaz Qadri’s court appearance
ISLAMABAD: A planned court appearance for Malik Mumtaz Hussain Qadri, the killer of Governor Punjab Salman Taseer, ran into chaos on Thursday as extremist supporters prevented an attempt to re-locate the session, witnesses said.

Mumtaz Qadri, who was assigned to Salman Taseer’s security detail and confessed to the killing, was charged and ordered to appear before the Anti-Terrorist Court in Rawalpindi on Thursday.

But as a growing crowd of extremist lawyers and madrassah students descended on the building in support of Qadri, authorities instead drove him to a makeshift court hastily set up in a heavily protected building in Islamabad.

But the crowd in Rawalpindi set up a cordon in protest, preventing the judge from leaving for Islamabad, lawyers and an AFP reporter said.

“We requested the judge that legally he cannot go to Islamabad to hear the accused and he accepted our request,” lawyer Malik Waheed Anjum told reporters.

“The judge ordered Islamabad police to present the accused in his court in Rawalpindi,” he added.

More than seven hours after journalists first gathered at the Rawalpindi court for the expected hearing, Qadri finally arrived and was feted with rose petals by supporters for the second day running.

Police officials in Islamabad were unavailable for comment.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

AjayKK, strictly speaking, Jinnah was brought into the Ilm-ud-din case only to appeal the death sentence.

Anyway, the craziness is such that in reflecting on Salman Taseer's death we are told:
http://pakteahouse.net/2011/01/06/a-sal ... -universe/
The brutality of this murder lies in the casual and trusting day Mr. Taseer was to have if those 30 odd bullet wounds would not have settled in him. He was having a fun day.

One of Pakistan’s bigger tragedies is that it is boring.

The youth which now forms over 65 percent of the country are out of options to have a good time, with freedom and access to clean entertainment. Salman Taseer was a leader who had a pulse on the youth. And emulated the spirit of youth and vitality.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

Kapil Komireddi:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... stan-islam
Who bears the responsibility for Taseer's death? To Pakistan's liberals, the principal cause of religious extremism in their country begins and ends with one person: General Zia-ul-Haq, an austere bigot who governed the country from 1976 until his death in 1988. Apportioning the blame so disproportionately exonerates his predecessors, erases the deeper history of theocratic idealism that underpins the very idea of Pakistan, and promotes, to the present generation, the erroneous idea that, prior to Zia, Pakistan accommodated pluralism.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Philip »

If Qadri is not bumped off by the establishment ,he might very well end us as the next "Qaid" of the Pak revolution! For that is what Pak is heading for,revolution.We on BR said it many years ago,that Pak was heading for collapse/chaos and it has all come to pass.With the US/NATO pricking it daily like a picador with a bull,the bull-minded Paki military is caught between two enemies,its own mob of anti-Pak ungodly jihadis screaming for a "pure" Islamic state and the uniformed tribes of the west,seeking to castrate its nuclear capability.The Paki military cannot "serve two masters",and a bitter choice will have to be made sooner or later.There is NO escape!

Centuries ago,when the first Crusaders just like the Paki jehiadis marched to Constantinople to assist the emperor of the east,seeing the vast army arriving and fearing that they would overthrow him,he packed them off to Jerusalem instead! The great danger for India is that as Pak has done many a time before-the last thanks to Gen.Bandiccot,the Mush-a-rat,at Kargil.Will the Pakis and their Chinese partners in perfidy plan another attack on India ,a JV this time to turn the anti-Pak tribes at the gates of Paki power in India's direction?
The First Crusade was a military expedition from 1096 to 1099 by Western Christianity to regain the Holy Lands taken in the Muslim conquest of the Levant, ultimately resulting in the recapture of Jerusalem. It was launched in 1095 by Pope Urban II with the primary goal of responding to an appeal from Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, who requested that western volunteers come to his aid and help to repel the invading Seljuq Turks from Anatolia. An additional goal soon became the principal objective—the Christian reconquest of the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land and the freeing of the Eastern Christians from Islamic rule.
PS:Pak's latest battle with India,"The Battle of the the Breweries"!
This "Beer Battle" is atking place not on the subcontinent but in the taverns and ale houses of dear old Blighty!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... India.html

Pakistan brewery's beer battle with India
Pakistan's colonial era brewery is to step to the forefront of the country's battle with its perennial foe by contesting the dominance of India beer brands in British curry houses.
The Murree Brewery is to sidestep a ban on exporting beer by brewing beers based on its historic recipe in Prague.

Isphanyar Bhandara, the company's chief executive, said the firm hoped to started distributing to restaurants across the UK in the next two to three months.

"I am looking at this project not from the financial point of view," he said. "I would like to get this very famous name – it is, after all, a British legacy – on to the streets of the UK. My aim would be to put it in the ethnic restaurants and give the Indian beers, which totally suck, a run for their money."

The brewery was set up in 1860 to slake the thirst of thousands of soldiers and administrators posted to India.

It was originally located near Murree, a hill station nestled 6,000ft above sea level where British officers would seek respite from the brutal summer heat. It relocated to Rawalpindi in the Twenties.

While only non-Muslims and foreigners are allowed to buy alcohol and the company is barred from exporting, the business has endured despite setbacks.

After Partition, in 1947, the brewery's market shrank as it found itself in the new Muslim-dominated country. Then, in the 1970s, the sale of alcohol to Muslims was banned as the country's leaders pursued Islamification policies.

Murree's brewery and distillery is tucked away behind the soft drinks division.

"The future looks very dangerous for this country," said Mr Bhandara, who is teetotal even though, as a Parsee, he is allowed to drink. "Putting a definite future on liquor is very difficult."
Last edited by Philip on 06 Jan 2011 17:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by pgbhat »

A_Gupta wrote:Kapil Komireddi:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... stan-islam
Who bears the responsibility for Taseer's death? To Pakistan's liberals, the principal cause of religious extremism in their country begins and ends with one person: General Zia-ul-Haq, an austere bigot who governed the country from 1976 until his death in 1988. Apportioning the blame so disproportionately exonerates his predecessors, erases the deeper history of theocratic idealism that underpins the very idea of Pakistan, and promotes, to the present generation, the erroneous idea that, prior to Zia, Pakistan accommodated pluralism.
This article has caused so much takleef at Pak chai khana. :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Lalmohan »

perhaps this is the precursor to the formal coup by kiyani?
'look unkil, the beards are revolting, i have to step in' dialogue onlee
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by svinayak »

Check this out
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg3_3
VIEW: Blood on our hands —Saroop Ijaz

Cowardice is not sensitivity. Neutrality now is immoral. Bipartisanship is spinelessness. Silence is criminal. We live in a society where condemning a daylight murder of a statesman by a religious fundamentalist lunatic requires ‘caution’

Today, I am just aggrieved that once again we have shown to the whole world what an intolerant society we are; we have revealed what the cost of human life is in our society; we have proven, yet again, that we are savages who do not believe in arguments or discussions, who only know one way of winning an argument, by silencing others in the opposition. We are a society where one individual can take the law into his hands, take a person’s life and in the process destroy an entire family, simply because that person’s opinion differed from his.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

AjayKK wrote: When the book "Rangeela Rasool" was written in 1923, a case of "blasphemous criticism of a particular religion" was lodged against the publisher Raj Pal. The Lahore HC dismissed the case which caused massive taqleef to many people. Ghazi Ilm-ud-din, a carpenter by profession, took a dagger and killed Raj Pal on September 6, 1929. He got a death sentence.

At this point, since he had become a hero, MA Jinnah stepped in to defend Ghazi Ilm-ud-din. Unfortunately, Jinnah's taqiya did not foind favour with Ghazi Ilm-ud-din or the judges either. Finally on 31 October 1929, Ghazi Ilm-ud-din became shaheed and future pakistan got one more hero who killed a person accused of blasphemy.
We are also told that the poet Iqbal spoke at Ilm-ud-din's funeral. And for many years comparisons of sizes of public gatherings in Lahore were made to the massive turnout for Ilm-ud-din's funeral.

The Rangila Rasul case also led to section 295 of the British Indian Penal Code, which India still has, and which in Pakistan was grown and extended into the current blasphemy laws. Under presssure to handle Raj Pal's acquittal, the British introduced the law in 1927 - in India today it reads:
295A. 5[ Deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings of any class by insulting its religion or religious beliefs.-- Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of 6[ citizens of India {used to be "His Majesty's Subjects"}], 7[ by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise] insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to 8[ three years], or with fine, or with both.]
In the Central Legislature debates for 1927, one finds that people like Malaviya and Jinnah supported this law. Part of it was no doubt that they wanted to calm down the Mussalmans and have Hindu-Muslim unity. {Remember, Jinnah was a nationalist in those days.}.

As far as I can see, only a handful of Hindu liberals and a lone Mussalman argued against this law. Their argument was basically that religion did not need the protection of the legislature; that the government was reacting to intimidation - the threat of riots; that the law would be used only to protect communities with political clout; that it is a violation of free speech; that religious reformers would be opposed using this law. The Mussalman said that if the Rasul was Rangeela {playboy}, then other religions should hope to have such a world-changing Rangeela Rasul too. {Eventually, under pressure from his constituents, this Mussalman voted for the law.} When the passage of the law seemed inevitable they tried to put a time-limit on it, to make it expire by 1930; but that too failed.

In this way, there is a direct line between the Ilm-ud-din case and the murder of Salman Taseer.

IMO, section 295 is used today to suppress free speech in India too; but that is not for this thread.

Also, ironically, "Rangila Rasul" is available on the Internet today. I think it would have vanished into history had "Shaheed" Ilm-ud-din not murdered Rajpal. Instead, the "Shaheed" has effectively immortalized the text.

PS: what Lala Lajpat Rai said:
I do not admit that this is a panicky legislation, though I do hold that this is a legislation which has arisen out of an emergency. If a measure like this had been introduced into this House in ordinary times, I would have considered it my duty to oppose it. In my judgment considered on its merits it is a retrograde measure; but considering the special circumstances in which we are placed at the present moment I think the proposed measure is a necessity and I therefore support its principle........I go further, Sir, and am prepared to use strong language against the writers of books of the kind of Rangila Rasul and Unnisween Saddi ka Maharishi. I realise the dangerous character of books of that kind in the present circumstances of the country....
Last edited by A_Gupta on 06 Jan 2011 17:55, edited 2 times in total.
ashokpachori
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by ashokpachori »

Analysis: U.S. and Pakistani spy agency ties suffer strains

(Reuters) - The critical partnership between intelligence agencies in the United States and Pakistan is under serious strain.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7 ... geNumber=2
svinayak
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by svinayak »

^^^

Pakistan's pluralistic heritage was subsequently erased in order to create a malleable monolith. Education was the principal target – the study of Islamiyat was promoted at universities; a new discipline called Pakistan studies, locating the country's origins in the history of Islam, was created; and the army, particularly Ayub, was portrayed as its saviour. India, meanwhile, was demonised as a "Hindu" state.

Ayub launched a war against India in 1965. At the battle of Badr in the 7th century, the prophet's tiny band of Muslim soldiers claimed to have vanquished the Quraysh with the help of white-turbaned angels sent by Gabriel. Ayub's propaganda machinery borrowed directly from that legend, reaffirming Pakistan's position as the defender of Islam. Stories about Pakistan's forces being assisted by green-robed angels who deflected Indian bombs with a wave of their hand were circulating, as were legends about Pakistani soldiers shooting down Indian aircraft with Enfield rifles. Pakistanis weren't just being invited to celebrate the valour of their soldiers – they were being told that their side had received celestial sanction.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by SSridhar »

A_Gupta wrote:Kapil Komireddi:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... stan-islam
To Pakistan's liberals, the principal cause of religious extremism in their country begins and ends with one person: General Zia-ul-Haq, an austere bigot who governed the country from 1976 until his death in 1988. Apportioning the blame so disproportionately exonerates his predecessors, erases the deeper history of theocratic idealism that underpins the very idea of Pakistan, and promotes, to the present generation, the erroneous idea that, prior to Zia, Pakistan accommodated pluralism.
That is an excellent write-up. By using Gen. Zia-ul-Haq as a convenient coat-hanger, the Pakistani taqiyyah has been making the rest of the world believe that Pakistan was otherwise a very liberal and secular country before and after the dark days of Gen. Zia. Nonsense. Similarly about Jinnah. Now, Jinnah might have been totally unIslamic in his personal capacity, but he knew exactly where he wanted to take his baby, Pakistan. He gave all kinds of assurances to all kinds of rabid fundamentalists to secure their support. He left them in no doubt that Shariah would be implemented in the new country. This, coming from a man who opposed Khilafat for the dangers of pandering to Islamism, shows that he was walking into deep fundamentalism with his eyes wide open and willingly too. He then made that single feeble and unconvincing statement about 'temples, churches and mosques' to which the taqiyyah-sponsors of RAPEs cling on to fool the world of how their Quaid wanted a secular Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Samay »

I think that bodyguard would be either be freed or sentenced for a couple of years, on the grounds that this kind of person is a true pakistani ,a blind follower of paki founder djinn and whatever he did is a commonly known term-> moral policing.

Thing is that court cant convict him because arguably what he did is the essense of pakistan, going against it is against the reality that pakistan is a radical religious state from its roots
Last edited by Samay on 06 Jan 2011 18:08, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

One point to be noted:
This Qadri person is now a high profile prisoner. The high security prison close to Pindi is Adiala.
We know who all are incarcerated in Adiala these days. If true, that means who knows that Qadri must be meeting with Zakiur-Rehman Lakhvi there.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

Najam Sethi discusses the Salman Taseer assassination:
Discusses possible conspiracy involved, intolerance in their society.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDj_WYtOs64
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wMRBburcA
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HImU8L5EfM0
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBQkwupgsbU
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Samay »

The behaviour of lawyers , throwing rose petals on the assasin shows the extent to which that society is radialised .What they consider is the right thing to do .If lawyers cant differentiate what is unlawful, then its useless to discuss the 26/11. Not even a shrink of that society is left from this radical fever.
There are two kinds of ideological flu spreading in our vicinity , one is in west (radical islam) the other is in east(radical communism). We better start using anidotes for both of them.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by svinayak »

Check this

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 011_pg7_13
Islamabad IGP failed to make security arrangements for Taseer

According to reliable sources, whenever a VVIP enters a province, his security becomes the responsibility of local law enforcement agencies. Only those personnel and officials are deputed on VVIPs’ security who have got clearance from the department concerned. Security personnel’s mindset is kept in view while deputing him on security duty, as he could be dangerous for one personality but could be used effectively for another. In the case of Punjab governor, the federal police did not bother to ensure foolproof security. A question arises here that if the Rawalpindi Elite Force personnel did not shoot the assassin, what prevented the federal police personnel from gunning him down.
This is a breakdown in the social order
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

Capital Talk with Hamid Mir: Religious Bigotry in full flow.
Except for one or two individuals the rest of the participants support the blasphemy law, and are denouncing ST. The interaction is in chaste Urdu.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ7c0Dpaexw
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6PRNWCXJXs
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaAXjUJzqHE
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKYoBYp4OaI
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Raghavendra »

Dead man's faction claims to have ordered killing of Taseer :mrgreen:

Taliban faction claims responsibility for killing Taseer
http://www.sify.com/news/Taliban-factio ... idget_news
Peshawar: A Pakistani Taliban faction linked to trainer of suicide bombers Qari Hussain on Thursday claimed responsibility for the assassination of Punjab Governor Salmaan Taseer, saying that the "man who killed him was from among us."

"We claim responsibility for the killing of Salmaan Taseer. The Punjab Governor was our target and we have planned this programme and the man who killed him was from among us," Shakirullah Shakir, a spokesman for the fidayeen group associated with Qari Hussain, told PTI on phone from an undisclosed location.
A provincial minister had recently said that Qari Hussain, a Taliban commander from the Mehsud tribe who was known as the trainer of suicide bombers, was killed in a US drone attack in North Waziristan in October.
:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by svinayak »

They want to support LeT in Pakistan but they dont want terrorists who kill Pakistani leaders
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