The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 05 Jun 2011 12:00

sugriva wrote:
Marten wrote:How? Would it not have been easier to continue the black ops against him and have media malign him on a continuous basis? They've only empowered him now - this is the Orange Revolution replayed. Watch how it rebounds.
Agreed......This man has been made into a minor celebrity now. But I won't stretch it so far as to call it a revolution. IMVHO, GOI has earlier faced off against far more difficult characters like Jaiprakash Narayan and come out winning. This too shall pass.

You forget that JP's Sampooran Kranti provided alternative to CON and see they have been ousted from all major states with limited chance to form Govt. In Centre also people can think of alternatives to CON party. Earlier it was as if INC would have no major opposition or alternative.

Don't know how AH or BRD phenomena would pan out. As long as MMS is projected as whiter than white this may not take off, since others in CON have zero credibility and could not save CON on their own.

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Jun 2011 12:01

^^HT conveniently shifting the blame on the IB saying that IB warned that RSS/VHP cadre would "infilitrate" the meeting and so, better to wind it up!!

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 05 Jun 2011 12:03

A black day ( err...blackest night , rather, for the 'naktancharaas'/night stalkers, struck in the middle of the night, unleashing terror on innocent women and children too. Apparently, Rakshasaas/demons gather their highest strength at night) for Indian democracy!

Wasn't it Ashwathaama who unleashed a terror mayhem at night on Pandava's camp after the Kurukshetra war!! Ever since, he, the symbol of Kali/terror stalks all paths of dharma! Paging Lord Krishna- 'Nee Begane Baaro' (Lord, come back and clean up this world of Kali)

Meanwhile, a very good analysis below in The Indian Express, posting in full-

Indian spring and the colour saffron

India’s colour of antiquity, saffron, takes on black, as a diminutive yogi in flaming orange and a Rasputinesque black beard, challenges a befuddled government with satyagraha. Forcing powerful ministers to run around like servitors in his ashram, Baba Ramdev humiliated the ambassadors of a corrupt political class—however personally honest some may be—who are fighting tooth and nail to protect looted national wealth hidden in banks overseas. The message was clear to the man on the street—the powerful politician is no more invincible. And the panjandrums of the Congress party screamed themselves hoarse, that the RSS is the driving force behind the Indian Spring.

They had the same cry during Anna Hazare’s fast at Jantar Mantar a month ago. Ramdev’s robe is cut from a different cloth. He has a mass following that will die for him, a huge ayurveda-yoga-education empire that allows him to be independent of political and mafia funding. His ideology may be muddled and medieval, standing against Colgate toothpaste and everything foreign—but his message is vehemently nationalistic. The RSS alarm raised by the Congress reveals poverty of thought and public disconnect.

The RSS got a bad name between 1950s and 1990s when socialism used its best weapon—propaganda—to give it a terror tag. When the Muslim vote bank of the Congress was threatened after Independence, it desperately needed an enemy. It counted on passivism of India’s majority to isolate Hindu nationalism as a convenient foe. The RSS lacked the political machinery to counter this offensive and functioned like lotus eaters in a mythical dream land, where Vivekananda preached Vedanta and all gods spoke only Hindi. They have not been able to communicate their agenda to India’s emerging middle class who see them either as a bunch of eccentrics in khaki shorts doing exercises with sticks in public parks, or as mass murderers of Muslims, while most communal riots occurred during Congress rule, and largely in Congress-ruled states. As India lurched towards liberalisation in the nineties and the noughties, the RSS became even more unfashionable; they didn’t wear Versace, nor smoke Cohibas or quote Deepak Chopra at cocktail parties. Indian history textbooks, dominated by its Leftist syllabus, do not mention RSS activism in Partition refugee camps—setting up tents, distributing medicines and food and providing shelter. They continue doing what an organisation, whose core ideology is ‘swaraj’, does—descending in thousands when earthquakes struck Latur and Bhuj, working day and night rescuing Hindu and Muslim alike. They sent their cadres to Surat when floods struck in 2006. In 2009, they were present when the cyclone Alia ravaged the Sunderbans. By the 1990s, the RSS had built schools in remote tribal areas and established charities. It operates over 100,000 voluntary programs on education, health, rural development and self-sufficiency as well as tribal rights.

Its opponents call the RSS an Indian Taliban that spreads saffron terror, while Al Qaeda writes bloody obituaries with machine guns and suicide squads, destroys schools and centuries old agricultural systems. The irony is, saffron terror—if it exists—is a reaction to terrorism against India. As millions of ordinary people celebrate an Indian spring in Baba Ramdev’s company, the ruling party doesn’t realise the irony of calling his movement RSS-inspired. The obvious inference would be that civil society is the Sangh. Somewhere, Keshav Baliram Hedgewar must be chuckling.

Meanwhile, Anna on TV condemns GOI for the despicable act and says will team up with BR again and intensify the movement across the country.

sugriva · Post by **sugriva** » 05 Jun 2011 12:24

Swapan Dasgupta calls outs the NGO's for what they are,

a clutch of insufferably pious busybodies

http://www.dailypioneer.com/343566/Indi ... -NGOs.html

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 05 Jun 2011 12:39

Lalu ( a finished force) was giving pravachan just now, BR has been used by RSS, BR par Rahu grah sawar hai, movement has backing of RSS.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 05 Jun 2011 12:46

Watch TV guys, RB is in tears...this will get big.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 05 Jun 2011 12:55

Sonia gave a direct order to PC to show this "half naked mendicant" what sbe is. This was at 10.20 pm yesterday. Coup d Etat!!

S Swamy

Ryan Maguire · Post by **Ryan Maguire** » 05 Jun 2011 13:15

Its time to kick italian out.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 05 Jun 2011 13:51

Kapil Sibbal was saying on TV in the morning that "no one has been injured" but

Ramdev fast: Over 100 injured in police sweep

NEW DELHI: The pre-dawn police crackdown to end yoga guru Baba Ramdev's anti-corruption protest left at least 100 people injured, a hospital official said Sunday.

"Around 100 people are injured, out of which 71 are critically injured. Many have suffered wounds on their limbs," a medical official at the LNJP Hospital's disaster ward said.

Manishw · Post by **Manishw** » 05 Jun 2011 14:00

^^ I watched the minister misstating facts myself and can vouch for it.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 05 Jun 2011 14:02

Ramdev's political IPO will benefit Cong

Ryan Maguire · Post by **Ryan Maguire** » 05 Jun 2011 14:21

Kasab gets full speech of FREEDOM to talk shit about indians and Ramdev get arrested for peaceful protest.

chutiyaa european Kangress ki maa ki ch-t #$%#

Ryan Maguire · Post by **Ryan Maguire** » 05 Jun 2011 14:43

Tamang wrote:Ramdev's political IPO will benefit Cong

^^ see comment section. The author of that trash article was ripped apart.

Ryan Maguire · Post by **Ryan Maguire** » 05 Jun 2011 14:54

Rajdeep sar-nahi-ay's CNN-IBN is trying hard to drive an intellectual circus that Gurus and Saints should not interfere with Politics.

One of gem, below the belt reply:

Should Gurus and Babas lead political campaigns?

If an economist and lawyer by profession can be in politics and even without being elected by people can become the prime minister, then any indian, be it a spiritual guru or yoga teacher can lead political campaign and fight against corruption. It is the constitutional right of every indian to be in politics.

Very well said. A tight slap on face of Rajdeep Sar-dey-sai.

These western english educated puppets like Sardesai & Company, are blindly copying and parroting ideas from West, without applying their own brains. They have forgotten that Bharat was famous for its culture of Saints and yogis playing active roles as advisors to Kings. Their knowledge of morals, Dharma and boundaries of politics was one of the finest.

In today's Indian system, noone is asking for a Yogi to fight election and sit in PM chair. But, carrying campaigns and acting as outside consultant to the King(Government) is not a bad idea. So, let's stop all this monkey circus around why Ramdev shouldn't advise Government on this or that.

One better way to explain our great ancient model to this westernised morons is, present them an analogy of similar system. Well I found one, which West has copied from Asian history. Remember Darth Vador? Phantom? I forgot the sci-fi movie name but in that movie, there was a tiny, short religious/Spiritual character(master), and his job was to train future leader of the Darth Kingdom. And once the young leader sits on chair and takes responsibility, that master sits by him so that time to time, the young leader can revert to him for advice on 'Critical' matters. But in day-to-day functions, master doesn't play a role because his subject(leader) is trained enough to handle situations and master encourages him to apply his own skills and guides him when he makes mistakes.

Now isn't that our idea originally. West copied it. ******** copy-cats.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 05 Jun 2011 14:58

I think Negi's idea of putting parent lock on "NDTV" should be made into a movement on BR too. Let's all put parental lock on NDTV and CNN + write to our cable providers that we don't want to see these traitor channels.

Ryan Maguire · Post by **Ryan Maguire** » 05 Jun 2011 15:02

Manish_Sharma wrote:I think Negi's idea of putting parent lock on "NDTV" should be made into a movement on BR too. Let's all put parental lock on NDTV and CNN + write to our cable providers that we don't want to see these traitor channels.

+1.

If I may? ..also add TimesNow to KidsTv Category, below 12-year old section. Let our kids grow some balls early.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 05 Jun 2011 15:15

Ajatshatru wrote:Some random thoughts:

1. Some people are comparing what happened today morning to an incident like the Jallianwallah Bagh (e.g. some of BR's followers were doing so on TV) ....but it should also be noted a heinous incident like JB happened under a foreign rule but an incident like what happened today morning is happening in 2011 in an independent India.

2. Tiananmen square happened in a communist China while we pride ourselves as being the largest Democracy in the world and yet....

3. Was no consideration shown esp. to the women’s safety (some of women may have been there even along with kids) who after being tear-gassed were driven out on the streets in the middle of the night by the police.

4. The Indian police - a servant of the people or the servant of the politicians?

With their Italian moles well in place, no western country is going to give Human rights duhai and refuse visa's to govt. ministers. Biggest democracy? where the prime minister doesn't have the guts to fight election of lok sabha and shamelessly gives his wrong address of assam to enter parliament..............

Ryan Maguire · Post by **Ryan Maguire** » 05 Jun 2011 15:17

One more nice reply:

Should Gurus and Babas lead political campaigns?

When thieves rule the state, there is no other option but spritual leaders who has huge followers, should step in and set things straight.

Original poll and all comments:
http://www.in.com/discuss/view-poll-sho ... 68-sc.html

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 05 Jun 2011 15:20

gobarganeshml wrote: I have new short for MMS from today - Maha madarchod scoundrel.

+1

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 05 Jun 2011 15:24

Gentle men please control and channel your anger, Just calling MMS / Sonia names will not solve the problems. Then how can we solve the intractable problems. Think about it.

I say that we channel our rage and bring down throw out this govt.

Ryan Maguire · Post by **Ryan Maguire** » 05 Jun 2011 15:28

OT.......

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 05 Jun 2011 15:33

Times Now & surprisingly News X seem to show BR side and showing balanced views. CNN and even Headlines Today are sucking Govt.'s balls. I am really surprised with Headlines Today's coverage.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 05 Jun 2011 15:39

Deepak Chaurasia was very humiliating with his questions last night and his sole intent seemed to be maligning BR.

How come AajTak and HT change stance within span of 15 minutes? They had shows and malicious scripts ready even before Sibbals press conference.

Ryan Maguire · Post by **Ryan Maguire** » 05 Jun 2011 15:56

they get paid. Rs. 1 Lakh per humiliating question. And bonus Rs. 50,000 if you manage to sneak in two questions and chock the subject.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 05 Jun 2011 16:02

There is basically nothing that prevents the government from coming back with a big majority in 2014 by rigging EVMs.

Ramdev Baba has so far refused to touch the EVM issue.

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 05 Jun 2011 16:27

The media's naked bias is starkly evident in news reports and interviews. They don't even make an attempt to hide their where their loyalties lie.
Also see NDTV walk the talk where Shekhar Gupta is unable to mask his comtempt for what Baba Ramdev's initiative. This is the editor-in-chief of a national newspaper.
Is he a foreigner? Has he been involved in multi-crore scams? Is he talking anti-national and seccessionism? Is he inciting hatred and violence? Is he dividing people based any language or religion? Is he asking for rights for one community at the cost of other communities?
We see leaders who fall into the above categories being given much more respect by the media. Not to mention Pakis.
The piling up of such instances of biased reporting are cementing the line of thought that the DDM in its present form cannot be expected to play a progressive role.

Baba Ramdev has been getting bad press since years. It has reached a shrill frequency recently as more and more people feel increasingly threatened.
The moment BR gave out his intention to join politics, many of his 'friends' turned into enemies overnight.
While popularity may be one reason, another reason can be that he is not of their type. They view him as an outsider.
They are not sure what to expect from him and therefore nervous.

Whether this will be a success or failure - time will tell. I am happy that a start has been made. Finally there is movement in terms of action from mere talk and sermons.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2011 16:36

I would expect IT dept has been given marching orders to work weekends and late nights but dig up any tax issues related to BRs business ventures and land ownership. once anything emerges the media will be put to work for the cause.

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 05 Jun 2011 16:45

gobarganeshml wrote:One more nice reply:

Should Gurus and Babas lead political campaigns?

When thieves rule the state, there is no other option but spritual leaders who has huge followers, should step in and set things straight.

Stupid question. Should ideally be met with a stupid answer, but can't think of one.
Being a guru or a baba does is not a 'disqualifier'.
Maybe someone can remind this leading light of the DDM of history when the university teachers - main being Acharya Vishnugupt - had to take things in his own hands when the kings were not ready to perform their duties of defending Bharat from the Greek invaders.
So yes, there is also a precedent. And he is better known as Chaanakya.

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 05 Jun 2011 16:49

Singha wrote:I would expect IT dept has been given marching orders to work weekends and late nights but dig up any tax issues related to BRs business ventures and land ownership. once anything emerges the media will be put to work for the cause.

Yes sir. Diggy raja has already strongly recommended the same to his party high command - per his own admission this morning (when he was having his usual round of verbal diarrhoea)

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 05 Jun 2011 16:50

Watch Times Now. Baba is on fire. This will get bigger, much much bigger. In other news, Doggyraja is claiming baba is an absconder from Haryana and has a criminal record.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2011 17:02

hopefully janpath Yuvaraj is not the next chandragupta maurya - a special person born to rule, born with the mark of the chosen one ...

the land of chandragupta maurya and rajaraja chola having to shoulder the burden of Yuvaraj is a bit too much. we can do better...far better.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2011 17:13

ibnlive

Digvijaya Singh calls Baba Ramdev a 'thug'
CNN-IBN
Updated Jun 05, 2011 at 09:56am IST

New Delhi: AICC General Secretary Digvijaya Singh on Sunday justified the Delhi Police action at the Ramlila Maidan to crackdown on Baba Ramdev and his supporters late on Saturday night.

"Permission was given for the yoga shivir, but he started a hunger strike, which is against the rules. Therefore, the police took action," he said.

Calling Baba Ramdev a 'thug', Digvijaya Singh said, "Baba Ramdev has been duping people for ages and now he wanted to fool the government."

He also said the action was justified and that the government can't allow people like Ramdev cannot be allowed to run riot in the capital.

Digvijaya Singh also accused Baba Ramdev of playing politics and inciting people.

"Ramdev was dealt with in the way a crook deserves to be dealt with," Digvijaya Singh said.

SPattath · Post by **SPattath** » 05 Jun 2011 17:18

Singha wrote:
Digvijaya Singh calls Baba Ramdev a 'thug'

Arun Jaitley commented that Dvj Singh is someone who addresses Osama bin laden as Osama Ji and calls B Ramdev as a thug.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 05 Jun 2011 17:36

I am a strong supporter of Digvijaya Singh. Every time he opens his stinking mouth he is making people angry on Congress, good job. He is doing a great job even BJP cannot do, because they are communal. He is a Shakuni

in Koruava party.

niran · Post by **niran** » 05 Jun 2011 17:45

Akshut wrote:Times Now & surprisingly News X seem to show BR side and showing balanced views. CNN and even Headlines Today are sucking Govt.'s balls. I am really surprised with Headlines Today's coverage.

watch vernacular channels, not angalais channels, have watched Hindi, Bangla, Punjabi all of them had been telecasting the scenes all day and calling a spade a spade.

NDTV and its clones in Hindi are paid channels, and those who pay to watch em is like buying and smoking towards Lung Cancer.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 05 Jun 2011 18:46

I am worried about fate of BRD's movement. Ramdev Baba has to prop up more leaders around him. He has to create a second generation leaders around him. Upon watching press conference of Anna Hazare, I am worried about repetition of the MKG Vs Lal-Bal-Pal model of freedom struggle.

Lal-Bal-Pal model of struggle had a huge advantage of favourable public after Jalianwala Baugh massacre. But due to deaths of Tilak in 1920 and of Lajpat Rai in 1928 gave away the headstart to MKG. MKG later removed Jinnah, SCB from his movement and handed over the movement of JLN and his cronies.

I am seeing similar trends in Anna hazare's rise. The benefit which Anna has is, he has a small cabinet. which can take over the cause after anna has finished his utility. BRD's movement must be having a similar generals and deputy commanders. They have excellent cadre in place throughout the country, at least much better than team Anna. But now BRD should prop up his generals indicating that there are many who will carry out his movement, if he is taken out.

the dynamics of 1920s is beginning to unfold in 2010s.. The end game of the events in 1920s was political independence of India. the end-game of this events will be economic freedom of india and perhaps political unification of India (who knows). Given the fact that the cronies of dynasty are soft on anna-team and harsh on BRD's team, gives me shivers about possible infiltration of this movement by dynastic interests.

Baba ramdev has to form a visible confederacy now. it is urgent as that will be the coup détat on dynasty and also on the interests propping up this adhunik MKG. BRD should present now a minimal credible deterrence that is, there is coterie of leaders which are equally charizmatic who will take up his position, if he is removed from the scene physically (either naturally or otherwise). Rajiv Dixit is direly missed here. He has to show many young promising rajiv dixits on his stage. otherwise, all dynasty has to do is, wait for BRD's liquidation and then leave it to team-anna for transfer of power. BRD has to put forward a team of educated and erudite men like kejariwal. Not kejariwal, but people like him may be non-magsasay award winners, but desi equivalents. and many of them..

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 05 Jun 2011 18:52

Baba Ramdev fires salvo on Cong, blames Sonia for atrocities

Anupam Trivedi, Hindustan Times
Haridwar, June 05, 2011

Opening front against Congress party, Baba Ramdev whose Satyagrah (fast unto death) against graft ended abruptly on Saturday night in New Delhi, blamed the UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi for police action against him and workers of Bharat Swabhiman Trust. Baba said there was a conspiracy to kill him by the Congress party.

"Earlier I thought she (Sonia Ganhi) is a foreigner but Indian at heart. I was wrong; she has no sympathy with Indian women and children. Congress is operated from remote control" told Baba Ramdev to reporters at Patanjali Yogpeeth Peeth on Sunday. Ramdev who sported a Punjabi suit claimed he wore dress of a woman worker "to hide his identity and save himself from police".

Baba asserted his life was under threat from Congress and said "Sonia Gandhi and Congress will be responsible if anything happens to him". On being asked on the future course of Satyagrah, Ramdev underlined he will continue with it. Without naming Congress general secretary Digvijay Singh who made serious corruption allegation against Ramdev and Patanjali Yogpeeth, Baba said "he doesn't want to comment on an immature leader".

Digging further on the issue of black money, Baba said now it has been justified why Congressmen were against his Satyagrah. "Alone Rs 50 lakh crores black money has come from Mauritius and this amount belongs to many ministers at centre. Remaining black money also belongs to Congress party leaders".

Baba clarified his fast had nothing to do with Bhartiya Janta Party or RSS. He added 90 % of the workers who participated in Satyagrah at Ramilia ground in New Delhi were from his Bharat Swabhiman Trust and 10 % belong to VHP, Bajrang Dal and other outfits of saffron brigade.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 05952.aspx

sugriva · Post by **sugriva** » 05 Jun 2011 19:21

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/story ... 40431.html

Baba Ramdev betrayal sparks doom gloom in RSS

In fact, the Roorkee SDM's order of May 5 establishes that Ramdev's Patanjali Yogapeeth is involved in grabbing about 44 bighas of farmers' land in Aurangabad village in the Roorkee sub-division.

But all these hopes crashed because Ramdev turned out to be "too smart".

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 05 Jun 2011 19:57

^

Good example of PAID NEWS

Now for some REAL news

Fast against corruption hasn't ended: Ramdev http://ibnlive.in.com/news/fast-against ... 919-3.html

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 05 Jun 2011 20:06

Meanwhile uneducated uncouth corrupt sonia's charcter stands exposed http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/ramde ... eet-110350

Opposition parties as well as religious leaders have slammed the government for the midnight swoop at the Ramlila Ground to evict Yoga icon Baba Ramdev from Delhi. The incident has, in fact, turned a political unifier.

Within 24 hours of the crackdown, the Congress stood isolated, ranged against friends and foes.

"This government has lost the right to rule," BJP president Nitin Gadkari said.

"This incident is extremely barbaric. It's is worse than the medieval ages. People have been beaten up including women and children. I am very hurt and upset," Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chouhan said.

The sight of thousands forcibly thrown out of Ramlila Ground turned Baba Ramdev's critics against the government. BJP's key ally Nitish kumar, who kept Narendra Modi out of Bihar, also hit out.

"The Centre owes an explanation on the issue. It is a major blow to democracy and an attack on the democratic rights of the people... it is also an attack on the fundamental rights of the citizens," he said.

Samajwadi Party leader Mulayam Singh Yadav also switched his stand.

"The Central government has lost mental balance. Some politicians in Congress do not have the manners how to address someone. They called Ramdev a thug. I think the party president should tell them how to speak in public," he said.

Such a build up ahead of the coming Parliament Session is bad news for the Congress and the Prime Minister. The Congress has the option to ignore its opponents. But the party that rules Delhi needs to do something urgent to prove that the crackdown was not a corruption cover-up if it has to survive, what perhaps is, its weakest moment in the 7 years of UPA.

time to fire the bofors