Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

[KLNMurthy]

So you herad about the murdering Paki pilot on NPR? And this is being sold as good news story?

It was prima facie a war crime which is not subject to statute of limitations.

[Altair]

As for the Chinese, they are reducing India's two front problem to a one front problem (albeit a really long one front). And they are exposing themselves to India's real might - never in my wildest dreams had I envisioned that Lizard would be at the tender mercies of the Kharga, Chakra, Chetak, et al. But here they are. Talk about real strategic stupidity.

Sirjee
Lizard will always fight from a position of strength. They WILL never expose their force in a alien territory with no air support. They are just messing with us to see how do we Indians approach in case Lizard must help Pakis out of their misery after CS. They have ample space to wage war on us from east side from a position of strength. Pakis are using all the tactics to buy time.
Altair

[ramana]

Altair, OT for this thread but I see no way the PRC can win against India without use of nukes. We can discuss elsewhere.

[sukhish]

Y I Patel,
very interesting observations.

[Mahendra]

So you herad about the murdering Paki pilot on NPR? And this is being sold as good news story?

On Undie-TV Padma Shri Dutt is trying her best to present it as a humanitarian gesture AOA!

[RamaY]

Altair, OT for this thread but I see no way the PRC can win against India without use of nukes. We can discuss elsewhere.

Could you pls give some insight in the right thread? Appreciate it.

[ramana]

Managing Chinese threat or the many threads in Mil Forum.

[svinayak]

To me, it seems that TSPA is seriously worried about something. Something they feel India is going to do in medium term or being able to do in medium term - over next 5 years.


The biggest fear of the PA is the joint ops by India and US army to go after Pak assets
They are asking for a third party guarantee

Possible, entirely possible.

In my opinion, in the short to medium term, TSPA is and will remain capable of holding IA at least to standstill (read: less than dramatic gains for IA) in a short conflict - during which the might of the IA might not come into picture completely. Apart from quick mobilization, this is another aspect which CSD tries to address - to create assymetry between attacking-defending forces from the word go. And TSPA has taken measures to address this.

IMO, the next 5-year defence plan (2012-2017) and the one after that, will change the face of Services in India. Next 5-year plan will see increment in the capability of the Services and more rounding off in terms of overall capability. The Services will set into their planned objective (in terms of strength and equipment profile) in the 2018-2022 plan period. So, it is no surprise that Kiyani said (last year?) that he expects IA to be in positiong to execute CSD in all its glory over next 5years.

However, the urgency for getting PLA involved in POK/NA and now this brigade level exercise points to some other urgency. What one needs to understand that brigade level exercise are generally done between armies expected to fight together. After all, if the whole idea for PLA was to learn about engineering aspects of mechanized in marshy areas, they could well have sent in a Squadron/Field Company worth of their Engineers. Why send in a whole Brigade? And if there is a Brigade, it sure will have mechanized elements comprising of tanks and APC plus support elements.

As I said earlier, something more sinister than anti-India posturing is involved here. Chinese don't show there hand so openly unless, the time has come.

Another thing to remember is what Obama discussed with China. It was the south asia region for China

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ate-change

Obama's reference to China's role in South Asia during the joint ''question-less'' presser was not part of the mainstream discussion in Washington DC, but South Asia experts who noted it differed on its significance. ''This is most unhelpful and counterproductive. It will cast a shadow over PM Singh's visit,'' said Ashley Tellis, senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

http://the-diplomat.com/2011/07/26/obam ... ncing-act/

People were laughing at this.
http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... -s-comment

The Indian media, indeed the government, is upset that the US president has roped in, or at least tried to rope in China to ensure there is peace in the region, read, between India and Pakistan.

How dare the president of a nation that should be closer to us than others in the region have the temerity to suggest something as preposterous as that? Does he not know of the current war of words between India and China over Arunachal Pradesh, the Dalai Lama’s visit to Arunachal Pradesh, Chinese-made laptops showing portions of India as under Pakistan, and so on?

India is the football between China and US. Does India want ot be player or be the football.
That is the question which Indians should answer.
http://southasianidea.com/foreign-polic ... and-india/

[A_Gupta]

There was this news report on NPR/BBC about the UK riots. The phrases "looters", "thugs", you name it were used to describe the rioters.

I heard the BBC/NPR report. They had a reporter interview some of the looters. One looter was a young man, who said, yes, he could afford to buy the stuff he was looting. He was looting because nothing much would happen to him. Did his parents know where he was? He didn't care. At most what would happen would be that he would be yelled at or grounded. If he was arrested? The young man said - what are they going to do to me? It is my first offence, and the prisons are overcrowded. They're not going to send me to jail. Why was he looting? Because everyone was. If someone broke into his house and took all his stuff and his parents stuff, how would he feel? Outraged. Did he know that what he was doing was wrong? He didn't care.

The BBC report went on to say that a lot of young people were simply indifferent to the effect their actions had on others.

If that was a representative interview, then yes, "thugs" is the right appellation.

[CRamS]

A_Gupta,

I am not denying that. But did BBC apply the same objective standard of journalism when describing the stone-pelting KMS last summer?

[Nandu]

Indepth story on those Chechen terrorists killed by Pakis in Quetta. (Video was posted here). Turns out, they were neither Chechen, nor terrorists.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/fe ... 74942.html

Original video:

[A_Gupta]

A_Gupta,

I am not denying that. But did BBC apply the same objective standard of journalism when describing the stone-pelting KMS last summer?

Well, the stone throwing was in aid of "azaadi" and not to get a free pair of shoes from a looted store. It takes much more to look into the claim of "self-determination" and figure out that it is not justified. It is further confused by the UN making self-determination a fundamental right, not a conditional one.

[saip]

Looks like that the Paki cricketer was given an Indian visa, afterall!

Pakistan-born Khawaja gets Indian visa

http://thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?I ... ndian-visa

And there is just a lone comment!

Yesterday everyone and his uncle started calling India all sorts of names without realizing that the so called 'visa denial' is just a procedural matter. Now, let us see what those guys have to say.

[Kashi]

Well, the stone throwing was in aid of "azaadi" and not to get a free pair of shoes from a looted store. It takes much more to look into the claim of "self-determination" and figure out that it is not justified. It is further confused by the UN making self-determination a fundamental right, not a conditional one.

Sorry for going OT

BBC did start by calling them protesters than thugs or looters and came in for a barrage of acerbic criticism from all around. I suppose few of their reporters and their assets were roughed up and violated as well and they were quick to change their tune. Wouldn't be surprised to hear the rhetoric of murdering scum from the self-proclaimed bastion of political correctness and impartiality (my ar*e) is this continues.

Of course being located in the the city of Westminster means that they can feel relatively assured that none of them looters will be their neck of the woods anytime soon.

Back on topic.

Looks like Aatish-Tharoor tag team has caused much takleef in the backsides of the Paki jholawaalas (an oxymoron if there ever was one). Y L Har**mi on chai ghar was frothing and fuming and invoked everything from Hindutva to Breivik. Some responses to hsi rant are gem.

[CRamS]

Well, the stone throwing was in aid of "azaadi" and not to get a free pair of shoes from a looted store. It takes much more to look into the claim of "self-determination" and figure out that it is not justified. It is further confused by the UN making self-determination a fundamental right, not a conditional one.

Don't tell me the well-paid, well-fed pompous western reporters know the nuances of the UN resolutions on Kashmir. If they didn't serve as mouthpieces for their govt's interests, they would at least point out some obvious facts in contrast to the relentless narrative: big baad India shooting "innocent" stone pelters. For e.g., they could point to the #of elections held (state & panchayat level). They could point to the Isalmist element, after all, the stone-pelting Mofos are no Gandhians seeking self determination. And finally, pointing out the obvious oxymoron, a terrorist Islamist dictatorship in TSP championing the right of self determination of a people who have had more freedom than those under TSPA jack boots.

The coverage of the riots on the contrary unmistakebaly establishes the guilt and criminality of the rioters and there is not even a whiff of an understanding of their sad plight. But yes, I do agree with characterization that they were thugs and looters. I am just pointing to the double standard.

[shiv]

We are veering seriously OT here but last night it ticked me to hear Times Now TV saying "London is burning - yes there are pockets of calm but the rage and looting has engulfed the city and is spreading blah blah blah" I had a chance to laugh at the irony. 28 years ago I saw the same BBC saying how all of India was burning and I had to retreat to a dark narrow corner of that dark and narrow country to turn on AIR and listen to how India and Bechuanaland had signed a trade and technology agreement. The AIR signature tune and the serene more Brit than thou accents of AIRs Surajit Sen and Lotika Ratnam had a calming influence on me.

..sorry - back to Pakhanastaan.

[asprinzl]

1) The PA is better trained and in some instance better equipped that the PLA. The presence of the PLA would not effect Indian orbat. Even if the PLA deploys ten divs to bolster Pak border posts...it would not count for much because combat can only occur where rival forces meet. And there are only so many meeting points. You cannot cramp every soldier into narrow combat space. All excess forces would have to wait for their turn which would mean easy picking for MLRS, A2G strikes etc. Conclusion: PLA presence is symbolic.

2) LET, Taliban tc are not some super human forces. They, the best of them, could not be better trained and armed than the PA because the PA are their masters. Since the PA would not allow mere quislings to be better than themselves, my guess is that the best of the Taliban and the LET are a notch or two grades lower in quality than the PA. Conclussion: These guys are not super humans and certainly not bullet proof.

3) Paki Nukes: The arm that could prevent and or neutralize this threat is the IAF. If only India had an extra 200 fighter bombers............ And as much as I would not want India to buy the Hornet or Falcon but someone mentioned that for the price India might pay for 200 Rafale or Eurofighter, India could procure double the number of either Falcon or Hornet.....wow imagine what an extra 400 fighter bomber can do in times of crisis provided pilots/navigators are also available.
Avram.

[SSridhar]

Without comments. . .

In his recent interview with a local TV Channel, Afghan General Shir Ahmad Karimi openly demanded the consent of President Karzai to allow him to strike back at Pakistani security forces in response to recent rocket attacks. General Karimi said that Afghanistan’s border ends on the Jhelum River in Pakistan.

link

[abhishek_sharma]

Mumbai attacks were a bait. Killing 200-300 does not change anything. After all, indians are in billions.

Really? I hope you will use this logic when your family members/relatives are affected by attacks. Then we will discuss "costs" and "benefits".

[pgbhat]

Afghans are claiming Pakjab now?

[Ambar]

if "the worst" happens we will have nuclear war. I think that has been discussed on here in various threads time and again. It is also a well known fact - from dozens of Indian analyses posted on here that Pakistan has conducted a proxy war against India on the premise that India cannot retaliate for fear of nuclear weapons. The only way to deal with a Pakistan that thinks like this is to plan for nuclear war if necessary - but give them the option of backing down.

But before India plans to rush headlong into nuclear war with Pakistan, a few things need to be done. The first is to actually get the US into the picture and be frank with the US about the aid that Pakistan has got and continues to get which emboldens Pakistan to conduct a low grade war against India.

The second is the China angle. We can talk to China but we cannot depend on them to listen or be sympathetic. Having talked to them we need to prepared to defeat both Pakistan and China militarily in a two front. This is not so difficult if we use nukes. Everyone realises that anyone can defeat anyone else if you use nukes. No one actually wants to be hit by a nuke. So whatever China does has to be done in the full knowledge that an India that is pushed against the wall will nuke China. All this stuff has been said and discussed on and off BRF. It is also stated Indian policy. Only the same old stuff is said on BRF every time by new people and sometimes by the same old people - so the thing to do is just listen and say yeah yeah yeah. If the Indian defence forces say it and Indian official sources say it but people on BRf do not believe it then theer is not alot to talk about - except perhaps have a little fun by calling it dhoti shivering.

What makes you think they haven't thought about it too ? What you are advocating is to burn 1.4 billion+175 million people to crisp and then hope we've cleaned off every one of them so that there is no retaliation. And if there is a retaliation after we've mushroomed them, we can be pretty assured that India will get smothered to ashes many a times over. This begs the question what use of such a strategy when we won't have a country/life to judge the outcome ? To me this sound like a mexican standoff !

I have no doubts in my mind that Pakistani army can be defeated in a conventional war,we've done it several times before and we can do it again. An occupation of Pakistan is next to impossible unless we want to get drawn into a US in Iraq/Nam/Afg kind of situation. As for defeating China in a conventional war, we need to read the history of Hans, their strategy revolves around others underestimating them. China is a closed society, they have used military to mercilessly crush any dissent, it is a heavily militarized nation which in the last 2 decades has been on a weaponization binge. Our goal is to keep them out of any confrontation with Pakistan and not to draw their ire for the heck of it. China wants India/US to bleed, but they have no intentions of taking a katana to either of the nations. They remained mum during Kargil, what makes you think they'll send their army to protect Pakis in case of another all out war ? India is one of the largest trading partner of China and in the end it all comes to economics.They are not going to kill off a golden goose for the sake of Pakis.There's a huge difference between irrational NoKo and China, the former is a maniac in uniform,the later is a suave hitman in Armani suit.

[A_Gupta]

Don't tell me the well-paid, well-fed pompous western reporters know the nuances of the UN resolutions on Kashmir.

No. They don't have to. They've been taught that "self-determination" is a fundamental human right, and the Kashmiris tell them that that is what they are fighting for. It presses the same buttons as if you say you are fighting for freedom of speech.

[shiv]

What you are advocating is to burn 1.4 billion+175 million people to crisp and then hope we've cleaned off every one of them so that there is no retaliation. And if there is a retaliation after we've mushroomed them, we can be pretty assured that India will get smothered to ashes many a times over. This begs the question what use of such a strategy when we won't have a country/life to judge the outcome ? To me this sound like a mexican standoff !

Saar I have advocated nothing of the sort. I am not going to say anything more on here. I have already written so much about my views in still running threads (deterrence etc) that there is no point discussing nuke war here. I was trying to make a point that I was not going to discuss nuke war and if you have a problem with that point - that is fine. you were not even in the conversation and I will not take issue with you on this.

There is a separate thread where much of this has been discussed and can be discussed.

[shravan]

5 killed, 17 hurt in Peshawar blast

PESHAWAR: At least five people including a child was killed while 17 others sustained injuries as a bomb exploded near police van in Peshawar, Geo News reported.

[Kanson]

In the end deterrence is cheaper and safer than military counter-proliferation. That is what the Americans concluded back in the 1940s, 50s and 60s when the considered pre-emptively striking Soviet and later PRC nuclear infrastructure.

The reason for that is, against Soviet Union, there is no safer way without receiving in kind from Russians. So they settled for deterrence. And against China they do had plans, the final outcome is such that it requires so many nukes that it fallout affects nearby countries like Korea, Japan and Russia, triggering another world war.

Now with advancement in missile tech/guidance, the counter-force strike can be purely conventional and Nukes can be optional. It is not without reason that Russians went hysterical on the mere concept of conventional Trident as Global strike weapon.

If America can not prevent Iran from getting the bomb through sanctions, threats and covert action it will settle for deterring it. I believe it will do the same with Pakistan in the end - some of those messages have already been semi-privately conveyed to them.

Jury is still out in the case of Iran. Pakistan is a special case. Deterrence works in case of people with rational mind. Just as security agents protecting Nation Heads often say, it is easier to deter who care for their lives, not so easy for suicide attack. Pak is more of the later. If Iran continues to threaten and plans to destroy Israel and Europe, deterrence doesn't works here. There will be actions whether covert or overt.

[SSridhar]

Saudi King spoke to Manmohan: Gilani

Mr. Gilani quoted the King as telling him that he had spoken to the Indian Prime Minister and the Afghanistan President, and both were “positively inclined to live in peace with Pakistan''. . . . When this conversation took place is not clear as the last time Dr. Singh met the King was in early 2010 during a visit to Saudi Arabia . . . Increasingly, the Pakistani leadership has been speaking about India and Afghanistan in the same breath as Islamabad seeks to reach out to two immediate neighbours with which it has had historically troubled relationships.

[Johann]

The pattern of Chinese confrontations after in the post-Deng era has been to show the flag and sabre-rattle in areas where there are major territorial claims, like the Straits of Taiwan and the South China Sea.

It would be a major change to see Chinese units permanently deploying within Pakistan outside their major investments in places like Gilgit-Baltistan and Gwadar.

On the other hand I do find it entirely consistent that the PLA would want to enhance interoperability with PA, and increase its influence within the Pakistani military and vice versa.

The current Chinese exercises reported in Pakistan are very limited compared to the scale and ambition of SCO "Peace Mission" joint exercises with the Russians. It will be important to see how these exercises develop over the next few years.

[SSridhar]

The reasons attributed to the presence of the PLA along the Rajasthan border, the LoC, and in Balawaristan are interesting. Along the Rajasthan border, it is ostensibly a month-long brigade-level exercise. We need to closely monitor whether the Chinese withdraw after the exercise or stay put or leave a remnant behind somewhere. In Balawaristan, it is for several reasons. The Chinese said initially that they were there to help the victims of the huge landslide that created the artificial dam, then they claimed that they were there for construction activities for the rail connectivity to Gwadar, we have seen satellite picture of tunnels and roads, and there are talks of mining. We also know that the Chinese are getting involved in two big projects, one the Diamar Basha dam in Balawaristan and the other Neelum-Jhelum near Muzzafarabad. It was later that the IA revealed that PLA was also located along the LoC. So, the PLA is crawling all over PoK and in significant numbers too. Whatever be the reason, this will be long-term presence from the nature of reasons attributed by the Chinese. That is why it needs to be monitored whether PLA's presence along the Rajasthan border is a flash in the pan or is going to be more permanent.

[Y I Patel]

Hi Johann

What is your sense of the PA units redeployed westwards from ARN and ARS? How severe is the impact on warfighting capability vis a vis India?

[Aditya_V]

A_Gupta,

I am not denying that. But did BBC apply the same objective standard of journalism when describing the stone-pelting KMS last summer?

Well, the stone throwing was in aid of "azaadi" and not to get a free pair of shoes from a looted store. It takes much more to look into the claim of "self-determination" and figure out that it is not justified. It is further confused by the UN making self-determination a fundamental right, not a conditional one.

But it did ensure freebies from Hurrirat's as daily wage payment, isnt that even worse, paid stone pelting?

[rohitvats]

<SNIP>

Another thing to remember is what Obama discussed with China. It was the south asia region for China

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ate-change

Obama's reference to China's role in South Asia during the joint ''question-less'' presser was not part of the mainstream discussion in Washington DC, but South Asia experts who noted it differed on its significance. ''This is most unhelpful and counterproductive. It will cast a shadow over PM Singh's visit,'' said Ashley Tellis, senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

http://the-diplomat.com/2011/07/26/obam ... ncing-act/

People were laughing at this.
http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... -s-comment

The Indian media, indeed the government, is upset that the US president has roped in, or at least tried to rope in China to ensure there is peace in the region, read, between India and Pakistan.

How dare the president of a nation that should be closer to us than others in the region have the temerity to suggest something as preposterous as that? Does he not know of the current war of words between India and China over Arunachal Pradesh, the Dalai Lama’s visit to Arunachal Pradesh, Chinese-made laptops showing portions of India as under Pakistan, and so on?

India is the football between China and US. Does India want ot be player or be the football.
That is the question which Indians should answer.
http://southasianidea.com/foreign-polic ... and-india/

Many thanks for this news item and insight.

Gives more food for thought. And makes sense in the hindsight.Let me think more on these lines.

Like I said earlier, I'm of the opinion that TSPA in the short to medium term does not need external support to guard against India. And I also don't buy the theory that operations in NWFP have milked the TSPA to an extent of seriously weaking TSPA. While, in the formations may have moved to these areas, they can come back in double quick time in case of emergency on eastern border.

In the light of above, the developments in POK/NA and now the exercise point to some long term trend. Something is afoot and we need to get the pulse of the same.

[Y I Patel]

Hi Rohit,

I would assume that the units deployed westwards are actively involved in anti-Taliban operations. Given Pak's current condition (economic as well as security) will they be able to reposition those troops as fast as India can move its strike corps? I would imagine that now they have a serious negative differential. How are their logistics, and what will be the fuel/ammo/equipment situation if those units have to be rapidly redeployed?

[krishnan]

11:11 AM Pak sheltered Osama in Abbottabad for Saudis:

The legend of Osama bin Laden is destined to remain apparently.

The Al Qaeda leader was protected by elements of Pakistan's security apparatus in return for millions of dollars of Saudi cash, an American security analyst has claimed.

Raelynn Hillhouse's version, based on evidence from sources in what she calls the "intelligence community", contradicts the official account that bin Laden was tracked down through his trusted courier.

Hillhouse says it was an ISI officer who came forward to claim the approximately 25-million-dollar bounty on bin Laden's head and to broker US citizenship for his family.

[abhischekcc]

.

[rohitvats]

Hi Rohit,

I would assume that the units deployed westwards are actively involved in anti-Taliban operations. Given Pak's current condition (economic as well as security) will they be able to reposition those troops as fast as India can move its strike corps? I would imagine that now they have a serious negative differential. How are their logistics, and what will be the fuel/ammo/equipment situation if those units have to be rapidly redeployed?

There was an orbat done by Ravi Rikhye on his website of TSPA forces which have moved west. And I think it did involve formations from ARS and ARN - which should not be a surprise as these are the only formations without holding roles. Let me look for it and see if I can post a short analysis of what it does for TSPA war-fighting ability in the short term.

[Johann]

Hi Johann

What is your sense of the PA units redeployed westwards from ARN and ARS? How severe is the impact on warfighting capability vis a vis India?

One estimate I've seen is that up to one third of the PA's combat forces are on the western front. The figures are much higher for some elements like Army Aviation, and lower for other elements like armour and artillery. However not all of this is for the Pakistani Taliban - some of them are also operating in Baluchistan.

This is is one of the reasons that the corps commanders are so upset about the relationship with the US - they would rather risk a breach rather than be compelled to launch an operation in North Waziristan that would require even heavier manpower commitments, not to mention the impact on morale.

The American-AQ/Taliban war is undermining Pakistan's war footing against India in a way that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan failed to.

In the Soviet war, America provided a security guarantee against Soviet action against Pakistan. Who can provide a security guarantee against US action in Pakistan? Currently no one, but I believe that is part of what the Sino-Pakistani exercises are building up to. Just like the Sino-Russian exercises which are meant as a caution against unilateral US intervention in Central Asia.

[Narad]

Apparently, the 3 pakroaches killed in londonistan were pakjabi RAPElets.

[jamwal]

@shiv
A nuke war will drag every major power into this region. That's a fact. Anyone who has taken part in this nuke war is going to be a target. They are not going to wait till we fire all nukes one after another. The moment one flies, you'll see first strikes arriving from different continents in an effort to secure the damage within this region, the locals be damned.

Pakistan is not going to fire nukes. They've cultivated a psychological deterrence by appearing to be all yahoo. What an army(IA) prepares for on the ground is an indication of what it thinks.

Real world is different than a DefCon kind of game or even half-brained "analytic research" papers or blogs published by every intellectual with ample spare time.
Nukes arriving from different continents in a 2 party war is not going to happen. It was a possibility during Cold War, but not in our case.

At the risk of attracting more bricks, I agree with your 200-300 deaths not making a difference remark. Even if we are directly affected by such an event, what's the best that an ordinary Indian can do ? Register FIR, follow u with weekly visits, file RTIs or hold candle light vigils, write about it on blogs, forums ?

Nothings going to happen even if 2000 die. We'll just whine about it or day-dream about our revenge like we've been doing till now.

[Aditya_V]

@shiv
A nuke war will drag every major power into this region. That's a fact. Anyone who has taken part in this nuke war is going to be a target. They are not going to wait till we fire all nukes one after another. The moment one flies, you'll see first strikes arriving from different continents in an effort to secure the damage within this region, the locals be damned.

Pakistan is not going to fire nukes. They've cultivated a psychological deterrence by appearing to be all yahoo. What an army(IA) prepares for on the ground is an indication of what it thinks.

Real world is different than a DefCon kind of game or even half-brained "analytic research" papers or blogs published by every intellectual with ample spare time.
Nukes arriving from different continents in a 2 party war is not going to happen. It was a possibility during Cold War, but not in our case.

At the risk of attracting more bricks, I agree with your 200-300 deaths not making a difference remark. Even if we are directly affected by such an event, what's the best that an ordinary Indian can do ? Register FIR, follow u with weekly visits, file RTIs or hold candle light vigils, write about it on blogs, forums ?

Nothings going to happen even if 2000 die. We'll just whine about it or day-dream about our revenge like we've been doing till now.

It also depends who dies, the Bomb blasts of 2005-08 in various cities, the Maoist Killings in Dantewada, Maoist and Ulfa derailing trains did not really rattle the establishment.

But in 26/11, targeting 5 star hotels where there was threat to certain Film stars and Top Businessman had some effect and Top government fellows had to make noises. i.e see the difference compared to the 11/7/06 bomb attacks.

So if say 2000 people die in bomb blasts in the streets of Delhi say connaught place type market, it will get media attention but nothing will happen but a severe action is possible if 20 big wigs in say Lutyens- Delhi are killed, or even if important relatives killed abroad are killed.

It seems the Media, Beauracracy, Justice system and Political elite do not feel the pain of guy 25 year old or 30 year old father of a todler lossing a limb or dieing in a bomb blast.

thats why there was huge support in NDTV and N RAM when the DMK govt. realeased the prepatrators of the Coimbatore blasts killed simply because those convicted claimed they had lost thier youth and could conduct normal sex lives with thier spouses. Offcourse people who lost thier limbs or loved ones in the bomb blasts were not invited.

[nvishal]

@jamwal
The first strikes arriving from different continents part was a metaphor. What I meant to say was that in a conventional war situation, world powers might put non-tangible/diplomatic pressure but in a nuke war situation, I don't think they can sit silent. There will be tangible action. Though you seem to think that it will be done out of "benevolence". It is not.

Nothings going to happen even if 2000 die. We'll just whine about it or day-dream about our revenge like we've been doing till now.

That is a very hopeless view you have about india. Around 50 years of congress rule and india is still here, growing. Vote bank is a big problem but you are blowing this out of proportion. It(non-retaliation) is just a mean to an end.