Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 06 Mar 2014 05:03

LOL drama: RT anchor (American) quits on air - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55izx6rbCqg

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2014 05:20

Rudradev,
Whether US-KSA path or EU-Ukraine-Russia path
the arbiter is PRC?

Meawhile Hillary Clinto calls Putin Hitler and gets this rejoinder in CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/opinion/s ... on-hitler/

Editor's note: Timothy Stanley is a historian and columnist for the Daily Telegraph. He is the author of the forthcoming "Citizen Hollywood: How the Collaboration between LA and DC Revolutionized American Politics"

(CNN) -- It's called Godwin's law. The longer a debate rages, the greater the likelihood that someone will compare someone else to Hitler.

And Hillary Clinton has done just that: On Tuesday the former secretary of state reportedly told a private fund-raising party that Russian President Vladimir Putin's actions are similar to Hitler's in the run up to World War II.

Her quote (according to the Long Beach Press-Telegram): "All the Germans that were ... the ethnic Germans, the Germans by ancestry who were in places like Czechoslovakia and Romania and other places, Hitler kept saying they're not being treated right. I must go and protect my people, and that's what's gotten everybody so nervous."

Of course, what also gets everybody "so nervous" is leading statesmen comparing Putin to Hitler and, thereby, raising the specter of another world war.

Timothy Stanley
It's unlikely that Clinton intended to gain politically from these remarks -- and they were carefully qualified. She added that "there is no indication that Putin is as irrational" as the German dictator was. But they could indicate that if she wins the 2016 election, America might gain a slightly more forceful president in foreign affairs, someone more willing to engage directly in Europe than Obama has. You may recall that in the 2008 primaries she was the Democrats' hawk candidate -- so much so that Ann Coulter preferred her to John McCain (Coulter called her "our girl").

But was Clinton right? Mostly no. It is true that Putin's justification for intervention in Ukraine is similar to Hitler's, that is, threatening to invade a sovereign territory to defend his ethnic brethren. But the situation is complex, and the historical comparison is tenuous at best.

Opinion: Has Putin broken international law?

After all, in the eyes of many ethnic Russians, it is the Ukrainian nationalists -- not Putin -- who are the Nazis. The Russians have asserted, quite accurately, that the revolution that overthrew a pro-Russian, democratically elected leader has resulted in the elevation of Russophobe fascists into key government positions. For example, the new secretary of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council is Andriy Parubiy -- co-founder of the Neo-Nazi Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU).

Another creator of the SNPU is Oleh Tyahnybok, a high-profile leader of the Kiev protests who has blamed Ukraine's problems on a Jewish conspiracy run out of Moscow. Ukraine's new deputy secretary of national security is Dmytro Yarosh, leader of the Right Sector group, which regards Tyahnybok as a soft liberal and which flies the old flag of the Ukrainian Nazi collaborators at its rallies.

In other words, in this situation, who exactly are the Nazis? Putin's ethnic Russian nationalists? Or the fringe of the ethnic Ukrainian nationalists? Neither is particularly pleasant.

Of course, the Ukrainian Nazi movement is small, and Ukraine is dwarfed by Russia, which puts Putin in the role of the dominant regional power picking on a small country and exploiting its extremist politics for the purpose of propaganda. But Putin is still no Hitler, because he lacks the German Fuhrer's global vision.

Hitler worked by an all-encompassing racist ideology that dreamed of turning Europe into a giant living space for his people. Putin -- the leader of a democracy, albeit a highly corrupt and politically stagnant one -- simply meddles in the affairs of countries that could reasonably be said to fall within his country's historical sphere of influence. Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union until two decades ago (whereas Crimea was part of Russia until 1954), the country contains millions of ethnic Russians and, crucially, it has Russian military installations that are key to Russia's strategic interests.

In other words, a Russian invasion of Ukraine is not going to be a stepping stone to the invasion of France. Unfortunately, it may well be a stepping stone to involvement in the affairs of the Baltic states -- which are firmly in NATO and the EU. This is why Putin's latest ambitions have to be checked.

Nevertheless, calling Putin Hitler is careless. Even reckless. As Marc Tracy points out in the New Republic, it's historically insensitive and ignores the tapestry of cultural clashes and political calculations going on. It smacks, too, of the Manichean division of the world between good and evil that permeated the war on terror and led to so many terrible mistakes and so many American deaths overseas. Worse, still, is that such provocative language should be applied to a confrontation with a state like Russia.

We are dealing with a major power with nuclear weapons that has the capacity to reduce the world to so much irradiated ash. The West needs to be careful with its words.

I think she torpedoed her run. Biden will beat her. And some Republican will beat the winner.

vic · Post by **vic** » 06 Mar 2014 07:24

During Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton times the crude oil prices were kept low. But Bush Jr and Obama are doing everything they can to keep crude oil high and Saudi happy. The money earned by middle class is being confiscated by banks, inflation and asset price hikes. From all angles, association of Ukraine and Russia posed no risk to western world, so wwwwhhhhhyyyy did the west do, what they did?

West never never takes on Saudis or China, why?

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 06 Mar 2014 07:58

Rudradev saar,
your explanation fits most perfectly and explains the big picture. Repubs are also funded by the oil guys(even at home) and klintons also seem to be close to middle-east. It seems to me that Obombo may not be willing to be as adventurous as Bushy was in Eyeraq. Some

If all these conflicts have energy/fuel a their heart, imagine what an alternative energy source could do? (Kudankulam protests also come to mind. Also this increased attention on Bhaarath in recent times is interesting. What gives? Please give your view in some appropriate thread.) Modi ji is big on solar energy. If somehow some form of alternative energy could be made viable, it would be a serious blow to amirkhan-sunni nexus. Modi saar proposed a forum of countries named 'Sons of Sun' of all the countries that have abundant sun and therefore can make use of solar power. That means many of the African countries might be part of such a grouping along with Bhaarath sub-continent.

Your explanation also fits in with what happened in Leebya. I think the fly in the ointment is that Obombo is not as willing as Bushy. It strange because Obombo seems to be continuing the same policies on almost all other issues, then why the unwillingness for military adventures even as repubs and sections within dems go about provoking and cornering Obombo to make some 'macho' move.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2014 08:01

Because he has seen who dies in such wars.

habal · Post by **habal** » 06 Mar 2014 08:11

the whole universe floats in a sea of energy, think what make the planets fly around the Sun. They don't propel on Saudi oil ?

So what's needed is some leader with an 'Independent mind' and that is what the US/EU is afraid of most. I am somewhat pessimistic on the future of such a leader unless the entire Asian block unites under one flag. How much chance is there of that happening ? The entire world & humanity is being held back by this group since past 3-4 decades.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Mar 2014 08:19

My view is that POTUS BO has completely lost control of the SD now that he is essentially a "lame duck". H.Clinton may have a following, those who fear that she may become next POTUS. JoKerry is probably not taken seriously, he has no real interest in being SoS, its a consolation prize and he's 404 in the job. SD is essentially operating in leaderless and rudderless mode, individual power groups are following their own agendas. Probably this UkNa thing was set up entirely by Baptist EJ interests associated with the USCIRF along with some neocons, and spun out of control b4 JoKerry found out anything about it: just like DK affair. Remember the "Fu** the EU" comment? The EJ gang were going on their own, without coordinating with the EU. The Russians were warning POTUS BO right then to back off. No luck: BO didn't hear properly, and JoKe didn't fire that whole bunch immediately as he should have.

Arms lobby and Halliburton types may have gone all-out as well: any signs of nuclear war possibility are magic to large defense system budgets. DoD is otherwise cutting Army personnel by 20%, big weapon systems were all going out.

As with DK affair, BO and JoKe find out too late that they are in a poo storm without an umbrella. I don't think either one is stupid enough to send the 101st Airborne into downtown Kviv, but the reports of US warships in the Black Sea are disturbing. The Russians have the equivalent of the Monroe Doctrine when it comes to FSU countries.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 08:21

RT reacts to Liz Wahl's resignation

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 08:22

Customs Union should help Ukraine overcome crisis - Putin

President Vladimir Putin urged the Customs Union countries to help Ukraine overcome its current crisis. “There is no doubt, we should do our best to help our partners deal with the difficult situation they are in,” Itar-Tass quoted the president as saying at a summit meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Union on Wednesday. Putin also said the Customs Union, which comprises Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, should consider measures to help its producers because of the crisis in Ukraine. It may impact negatively on the union’s market, he added.

vic · Post by **vic** » 06 Mar 2014 08:25

I am sorry, I do not agree with the analysis that Obama is ill informed. Me thinks that Obama has been plucked out of nowhere and put in charge, so that he will serve the interest of OIL and BANKING lobbies. Ignore his words, and see his conduct. Everything USA is doing is in interest of oligarchs of Banks and Oil. Obama is a stooge of super elite interests while Republicans are at present just a bunch of red necks.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 08:27

RT reacts to Liz Wahl's resignation

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 06 Mar 2014 08:27

the whole universe floats in a sea of energy, think what make the planets fly around the Sun. They don't propel on Saudi oil ?

So what's needed is some leader with an 'Independent mind' and that is what the US/EU is afraid of most. I am somewhat pessimistic on the future of such a leader unless the entire Asian block unites under one flag. How much chance is there of that happening ? The entire world & humanity is being held back by this group since past 3-4 decades.

Sirji..Please look no further. Chances of that happening is 100%. I know who that leader is. Please approach the mirror in your house/apartment and stand front of it with your eyes wide open. Yes you. What do you think that prevents you from taking the reign of India and bring solar renaissance? Gandhiji was not born Mahatma. I'm sure he looked at the mirror and said, what the ****, I can kick British out and he did it.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 06 Mar 2014 08:28

rohitvats wrote:I have been watching the western news channel over last couple of days. And it so happened that I started following the conflict first on BRF and then saw these channels for latest developments.

The thing that strikes you right in the face about these channels and their content is how pro-government/pro-west these channels are! There is no to negligible independent critical analysis and the content being delivered is simply an extension of respective government policies. And to buttress their narrative and seem 'independent', they trot out these analyst from 'think-tanks' who say the same thing with more mumbo jumbo and make it seem real independent+in-depth analysis.

And the news anchors!!! Oh my god...they are so bl@@dy full of themselves...it's as if there is a sermon going on with anchors being the head preachers.

So So true! The western journalists are ahoIes and total frauds,... the first time I realized this was when reading a readers Digest article on how evil and Hitler like Saddam Hussain was. The article itself was quite factual about how he gassed the Kurds and what not...except for the fact that it was published 10 years after the event happened an just when President Bush Sr decided to invade Iraq. It would have been honest and truthful of readers digest to have published the same article when the actual deadly deed happened..but at that time Saddam was America's buddy. so the America Media stayed silent..and used this event at the right time it wanted when The US turned against Iraq.

So the liberal leftist journalists students of India who worship the US journalists are dumarses!

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 06 Mar 2014 08:35

^^ they are furthering their national cause. One giant opinion shaping industry, everyone operating under one flag. Who says that journalists have to be so independent, fair and balanced that their operations can affect national security. No wonder CNN fired 75% of their international correspondents.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Mar 2014 08:40

The "Reader's Indigest,Newspeak,the E-con-em-ist,False News,CoNN",etc.,are atypical of the Yanqui Goebellesian fascist strategy of throwing massive quantities of untruths in the hope that some of them will be believed. When you discover that Prescott Bush,grandaddy of the Bush clan,Henry Ford and many others bankrolled Hitler and the Nazi party,the picture is revealed. The intimate ties that British royalty had with Hitler and the Nazis is no secret.The Duke of Windsor,who abdicated the throne,had enormous admiration and reportedly hero-worshipped "der Fuhrer".Therefore we should not be deceived with the current propaganda that the western media spews out of its orifices,and expose the untruths and hypocrisy to all concerned.

vic · Post by **vic** » 06 Mar 2014 08:53

I think we are seeing before our own eyes, in Ukraine the equivalent of as to how Hitler took over Gemany with the help of US-UK cabal leading to World War.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 09:24

Looking at the way markets are reacting in past 2 days .....I suspect they must have been told this crises will be resolved peacefully and you find the markets are up and oil prices are going down in a matter of 1 day ( never saw that happening during Syrian crises when the Oil prices were up for long time )

So all the talks in front of media are posturing perhaps and there are hard bargains happening in the background.

I saw an interview with the current Ukranian regiem Economic Minister Yesterday on CNN ...... He sounded very sober and practical guy offering practical solutions .....he should rather be the President or PM will do a lot of good to the Ukranian people.

What ever happens after this , likely Russia would get more closer to China and Russia would be vary with its economic ties with US i.e try to minimise its damage in future and will look beyond Europe to sell its Oil/Gas. Though likely EU dependencies on Russian Oil/Gas will remain the same or increase ( due to South Stream ) due to TINA factor for this decade.

vic · Post by **vic** » 06 Mar 2014 09:32

I think compromise has been already struck, as pro-Russian protectors have been evicted in Odessa, Donetsk, Kharkiv etc.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 09:37

Another fact to note that Ukraine joning NATO is of remote chances coz NATO condition specifies that all political disputes should be resolved before that country joins NATO which is to say dont come with past baggages and with war you expect us to fight on your behalf.

Russia staying in Crimea and its Black Sea Fleet out there effectively makes it certain that Ukraine cannot join NATO , unless Crimea is not part of Ukraine which wont be the case , Crimea would get greater autonomy but will remain part of Ukraine.

Russia did something same with Georgia war when Abkazia and South Ossetia became autonomous effectively making sure Georgia wont be able to join NATO unless they resolve the political disputes with Russia.

So we can expect Ukraine joining EU AA but joining NATO is remote possibility for now , not the least that Europe has little appetite for war and has serious economic issues to deal with.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 06 Mar 2014 10:06

I think the compromise is arrived because Obombo was not ready to rush in. Seeria was also averted in the last moment. In Leebia, it seems others rushed and Obombo was forced to go in. Maybe after that he gave an ultimatum that he will not come to rescue even if they go in by themselves like Bay of Pigs.

I find his reluctance strange because he seems to be in cahoots in all other issues.

Weapon manufacturers and their lobbyists are obvious because they stand to gain. But, there are other themes that get repeated. Oil/energy, drugs, malsI, commies.

In Leebia, Syria, Egypt, & even BD, its the sunnis fighting force backed by amirkhan. Persia's weakening also benefits the saud. So, it would be interesting to know what exactly is the equation between Saud & Obombo?

If Saud & amirkhan have such good understanding, then why kithab-e-chehra revolution in Saud?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 06 Mar 2014 10:43

Austin, that rule flew out the window when Croatia and Albania joined NATO despite ongoing disputes with Serbia across multiple theatres. NATO clearly bends that rule when necessary to suit its strategic convenience.

Ramana, I dont think PRC is big enough to play the gas game, let alone arbitrate it. PRC unlike US or Russia is not self sufficient in meeting its own energy needs- that seems to be a principal criterion. It depends on Russia and CARs for gas and on the two blocs- Russia/Iran and US/GCC for oil. So for the time being it is a rook for hire (if not a pawn) but definitely not a player in its own right.

Johnee saar, regarding US interest in Breaking India: consider that the US is now running a game that spans from the South Pars gas field in the Persian Gulf, across West Asia, North Africa and Mitteleuropa to Western Europe. That defines its current center of gravity as far as disposition of assets is concerned. Recently, however, the White House and Pentagon have been talking a great deal about a "Pivot to Asia" to confront China.

Now consider, with the US in its present disposition wanting to "pivot to Asia" - where would the fulcrum lie?

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 06 Mar 2014 10:49

Cold War Update - Obama's Ukraine Response

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... e-response

habal · Post by **habal** » 06 Mar 2014 11:06

because of Saudi sunnism, the US is using muslims as soft putty in their hands. Whenever they find them inconvenient they kill them, incarcerate them in places like Guantanamo, & Saudi sunnis can't do a thing about this. And then this brainless bunch go about doing massa's work by destabilizing Syria, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Tatars in Ukraine start jumping as if on cue, Pakistan is always ready to go at Massa's command albeit for a price like a much used one, the American diplomats in India are sent on missions to various mosques and muslim spiritual centres and religious heads for a specific mission, to create links and subvert process in these constituencies for their favorite candidate maybe the Aaptards or Mamata or Mulayam or Jayalalitha. They just have to give ishaara and these guys will turn up en masse to vote for that entity with Saudi blessings on cue. This group survives on hatred of the other and they benefit from that extreme cyclical emotion of 'hatred/fear' to perpetuate this cycle. For instance Sunnis are afraid of Alawis or Modi in power so they vote for opposite group like AAp/Congi/SNC but at same time have need to subjugate their opposition so they will side with LeT/Jabhat Al Nusra/IM etc as opportunity arises. This is a perpetual cycle since the target group i.e. Sunnis tends to either be afraid or oppress the rest, there is no mid-way here and that plays right into hands of anglo-US fascists who may well have engineered this situation and are chief beneficieries. These links to the Islamists are opened via the Saudis, so the USA will never knowingly wreck that link.

OTH whoever can break this link can become the leader of Asia. Islam has ingrained in it's followers to be 'smart' and ditch the kaffir in interests of their religion after their needs are met or make taqiyya for temporary gains, so the Kafir doesn't trust Islam or it's followers and neither allies with it. So there is stalemate in this respect with USA free to destabilize from Constantanus to Indus.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 12:06

Rudradev wrote:Austin, that rule flew out the window when Croatia and Albania joined NATO despite ongoing disputes with Serbia across multiple theatres. NATO clearly bends that rule when necessary to suit its strategic convenience.

That may be true but bringing NATO with border of Russia is a different ball game.

Dont forget that Russians can deploy Nuclear Weapons on Kalingrad Enclave and the INF treaty might be in jeopardy as well as the New START.

There is also the Conventional Forces Limits treaty that exist on the restrictions on deployment between Europe and Russia though it remains suspended but neither side has broken it.

Not to mentioned the Gentle Man Agreement between US and Russia not to deploy Strategic Cruise Missile with Nuclear Warhead on SSN's

A lot can be at stake here if NATO wants to raise the bar.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Mar 2014 14:12

Estonian Foreign Ministry confirms authenticity of leaked call on Kiev snipers
Published time: March 05, 2014
http://rt.com/news/estonia-confirm-leaked-tape-970/

The Estonian Foreign Ministry has confirmed the recording of his conversation with EU foreign policy chief is authentic. Urmas Paet said that snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were hired by Maidan leaders.

Paet told RIA-Novosti news agency that he talked to Catherine Ashton last week right after retiring from Kiev, but refrained from further comments, saying that he has to “listen to the tape first.”

“It’s very disappointing that such surveillance took place altogether. It’s not a coincidence that this conversation was uploaded [to the web] today,” he stressed.

“My conversation with Ashton took place last week right after I returned from Kiev. At that time I was already in Estonia,” Paet added.

Paet also gave a press conference about the leaked tape on Wednesday, saying that the dramatic events in Kiev, which resulted in people being killed, must become the subject of an independent investigation.

The Estonian Ministry of Foreign Affairs also issued a statement on its website, saying that the recording of the leaked telephone conversation between Paet and Ashton is “authentic.”

The phone call took place on February 26 after Estonia’s FM returned from his visit to Ukraine, which took place soon after the end of street violence in Kiev, the ministry added.

“We reject the claim that Paet was giving an assessment of the opposition’s involvement in the violence," the statement stressed, adding that the FM was only providing an overview of what he had heard during his Kiev visit.

RT has contacted Ashton’s spokesperson, Maja Kocijancic, who said “we don’t comment on leaked phone conversations.”

The US government declined to comment on the leaked phone conversation between EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and the Estonian foreign affairs minister.

State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said she had nothing to say on the issue, ITAR-TASS reported. However, she did accuse Russia of leaking the tape, stating that “this was another example of how the Russians work.”

The call took place after Estonia’s Foreign Minister Urmas Paet visited Kiev on February 25, following the peak of clashes between the pro-EU protesters and security forces in the Ukrainian capital.

Anti-government protesters take cover as they are under fire reportedly of police sniper during clashes police in the center of Kiev on February 20, 2014.(AFP Photo / Sergei Supinsky)

Anti-government protesters take cover as they are under fire reportedly of police sniper during clashes police in the center of Kiev on February 20, 2014.(AFP Photo / Sergei Supinsky)

It was reportedly uploaded to the web by officers of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) loyal to ousted President Viktor Yanukovich who hacked Paet’s and Ashton’s phones.

During the conversation, Paet stressed that “there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovich, but it was somebody from the new coalition.”

According to the Estonian FM, “all the evidence shows” that the “same snipers” at Maidan were shooting at people from both sides – the police and the protesters.

Ashton reacted to the information by saying: “Well, yeah…that’s, that’s terrible,” adding that the matter is worth investigating.

94 people were killed and another 900 injured during the standoff between police and protesters at Maidan Saquare in Kiev last month.

Look at the new slant,"Crimea's stand-off",not "Ukranian crisis"!
Urgent talks, angry words, but still no coherent plan to end Crimea’s stand-off

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 71779.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... rry-lavrov

US and Russia fail to reach Ukraine deal on day of frantic diplomacy

John Kerry and Sergey Lavrov to resume talks on Thursday as pressure grows on EU to pass punitive measures against Moscow
Ian Traynor in Brussels, Paul Lewis in Washington and Kim Willsher in Paris
The Guardian, Wednesday 5 March 2014

John Kerry: ‘All parties agreed today that it is important to try to resolve these issues through dialogue’

The first western attempts to get Moscow to back down over its seizure of Crimea failed on Wednesday evening, putting pressure on the EU to resort to punitive action against the Kremlin at an emergency summit on Thursday.

Negotiations in Paris between John Kerry, the US secretary of state, and Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, broke up without agreement on Wednesday. The Americans and the Europeans hoped to persuade Moscow to open a dialogue with the new government in Kiev and also to withdraw its forces in Crimea to their bases and allow in international monitors.

But while Lavrov accused the Americans of tabling unacceptable ultimatums, Kerry said there were “a number of ideas ” up for discussion. Both men are expected to resume negotiations in Rome on Thursday after consulting their respective presidents, Barack Obama and Vladimir Putin.

“Things have moved in a good direction,” said Laurent Fabius, the French foreign minister.

Lavrov said western countries were proposing “steps that do not help create an atmosphere of dialogue. John Kerry agreed that such atmosphere needed to be created. It’s very hard to make honest agreements that will help the Ukrainian people stabilise the situation in an atmosphere of threats and ultimatums.”

Kerry insisted he had not come to the French capital expecting to find an instant answer to the crisis in the Crimea, but was encouraged by signals from the Russians after meeting his Moscow counterpart Sergei Lavrov. Kerry also met the Ukrainian foreign minister Andrij Deshchytsia.

“I believe I have something to take back to President Obama, and I believe Foreign Secretary Lavrov has something to take back to President Putin. All parties agree it’s important to resolve this issue through dialogue,” Kerry said.

It had been a day of frantic diplomacy in Paris, where Kerry met his Russian counterpart in an attempt to find a peaceful solution to the Ukrainian crisis. “We will not allow the integrity, the sovereignty, of Ukraine to be violated – or for that violation to go unchallenged,” Kerry told journalists after the meeting. “Russia made a choice. We have clearly stated it is the wrong choice to move troops into the Crimea. Ukrainian territorial integrity must be restored and maintained.” Kerry added that efforts would continue to allow a “de-escalation” of the situation.

The meeting between Kerry and Lavrov was the first direct US-Russian contact since the Ukrainian crisis acquired alarming dimensions at the weekend with the fall of President Viktor Yanukovych and Russia’s military occupation of Ukraine’s Black Sea peninsula of Crimea.

Analysts and diplomats in Brussels had been expecting the Kremlin to make symbolic concessions in order to weaken the case for sanctions against Russia by Europe and America, but those failed to materialise. That put further pressure on Thursday’s emergency EU summit, with the Europeans almost obliged to impose punitive measures on Russia. Early on Thursday the EU said it had targeted Yanukovych and 17 other members of his former Ukrainian hierarchy with an assets freeze.

Earlier in Paris, Lavrov boycotted a meeting with Kerry, Hague, and the Ukrainian foreign minister, Andrii Deshchytsia. Kerry said that “regrettably” one member – Russia – had failed to appear for a meeting of the so-called Budapest agreement group, which guaranteed Ukraine’s borders after it renounced nuclear weapons in the 1990s.

Lavrov repeated the Kremlin’s assertion that the 16,000 troops that have seized Crimea were not Russian forces. “If you mean the self-defence units created by the inhabitants of Crimea, we give them no orders, they take no orders from us,” he said. “As for the military personnel of the [Russian] Black Sea fleet, they are in their deployment sites.”

European officials and diplomats admit that the sanctions being discussed on Thursday were symbolic rather than substantive. The measures include freezing talks on making it easier for Russians to travel to Europe and on a new overall agreement regulating relations between Russia and the EU. Russian and European officials admit that both sets of talks are unofficially frozen anyway. Nonetheless, Moscow is threatening to retaliate.

Hague said the summit would need to show that there were “costs and consequences for Russia’s actions against Ukraine”. But the impact was more likely to be long-term rather than immediate.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 15:34

US State Department : President Putin's Fiction: 10 False Claims about Ukraine

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 15:40

Crimean Parliament passes unanimous vote for joining Russia as autonomy

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 16:18

( via BBC )

11:16:

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Vasily Nebenzya tells the BBC - before the news about the referendum move in the Crimean parliament - that:

Ukrainian membership in Nato is a "red line" for Moscow

"I do not imagine Ukraine in Nato - neither in immediate future nor in the future at all, [the] best option is to stay neutral."

West should bear some responsibility for what is happening in

Russia wants "negotiations and political dialogue" to resolve the crisis

Moscow still refuses to admit that armed men in Crimea are under Russia's control

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 16:21

Some Economic Aspect of Ukraine EU Deal

http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episo ... eiser-082/

Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss an EU membership market on which the more than 50 percent Euroskeptic populations of France, Spain, Greece and UK can dump their membership burdens on to those in Ukraine and beyond who want it. They also discuss the ‘sick joke’ that is home ownership in Troika occupied Greece. In the second half, Max interviews Dmitry Orlov of cluborlov.blogspot.com about his opinions on Ukraine and about the failed EU trade deal that led to the crisis and what the future holds for the economy.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 17:17

11:56: ( via BBC )

The legal position in Ukraine regarding the possible secession of Crimea is unclear. Under Ukraine's constitution, "issues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an all-Ukrainian referendum". But the constitution also says Crimea is entitled to call its own local referendums.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Mar 2014 17:32

The leaked tape:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/ ... onian.html

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Mar 2014 18:05

vic: this is why I maintain that BO is not in control:

I find his reluctance strange because he seems to be in cahoots in all other issues.

Ask the "Qui Bono?" on this. BO's interest is in bringing power, water, friendly regimes and bijnez in Aphrica. He has already put $xxB into power generation, and I am sure all sorts of other things are developing there. WHY would be want to get embroiled in a no-win bissing contest with Vladimir P? And this late in his 8 years??? And trust me, this is 100% no-win, and lose-lose for BO. He is NOT going to come out like JFK having won in some nose-to-nose cussing glaring contest: then the Liberals will slam him as a warmonger and the T-Party will slam him for busting the budget again. Half his support is from American communists/former communists/camp followers.

But now look at it from the LePubrican/T-Party/Beijing pov (incidentally, those are coincident).
1. Watch Lockheed/Boeing/Raytheon/NorthropGrumman, Halliburton and Waste Management stock.
Just deploying for a few months will consume hajaar-karod dohlar in parts, engines, fuel, etc etc. Of course if any missiles get launched... but I don't even want to consider that prospect.

Like I said, fallout shelter not painted yet.

2. If US "wins" this round, as in UkNa join NATO, LOTS of weapon sales.
3. If Crimea secedes and joins Russia (almost certain - what happened to that enclave off Georgia after the ****vali bungle?) BO will be blamed. Tensions will stay high on Crimea-UkNA border and in Black Sea - probably UkNA will fight to break off one port, probably Odessa, from Crimean control. US ships will be on station in Black Sea for extended deployment.
4. 20% RIF in Army and cut in Air Force and Navy procurement will have to be restored. If BO/Democrats stall that, the map will become as red as that of China come November midterm elections.
5. If BO DOES hike defense spending, out goes the budget compromise to reduce the deficit. BO will have to agree to cut social programs (read ObamaCare). Democrats will get mad. Net effect: More red on map in November.
6. Treasury will have to get back to ~~printing notes~~("bond purchases"), sending stocks further up.
7. Red states draw comfort from the fact that Their Party is Standing Up For the Lawd Gawd by propping up the Baptist regime in UkNa.

I have not figured out why the SD is going along with this, except that it is another rogue element like the one that did the DK extortion scam, directed by the USCIRF and other nutcases in concert with T-Party and Defense lobby types.

All in all, I don't see that BO and his tribes gain ANYTHING, and if there is any shooting, it will be predominantly young, not-wealthy, heavily minority, people who die or come back disabled. Any war with the parameters of the parties involved, will be over too soon to say "draft".

BTW, I am not excusing BO as in "oh poor victim". I am saying that he and his WHOTUS gang are 404 and hence not much point in looking to them for anything smarter than "stall decisions to fire missiles". As in Syria. I imagine the War Room may be a bit muted this time around.

8. And then there is the other scenario. Massive vodka import into north and northwest Ukraine. All over in 2 days. Bo & Co face the reality that there is no new alternative that was not explored in 1957 (when was Budapest?) or 1968. Utter humiliation, Hainan/Dubya and Georgia magnified 100 times. Massive Red sweep in US come November, US version of Hiltler Jugend led by Sarah Palin takes over the COTUS and renders BO hijra.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2014 18:39

Ron Paul: US shouldn't meddle in Ukraine

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Mar 2014 19:40

Yes, but he also said that if the LePubrican Palty doesn't change its ways, they won't elect a Prejident "in my lifetime" again. So he's hardly a dahling of the LePubricans today.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 06 Mar 2014 19:43

European newspapers are full of news about TFTA American AC " Bush". And Russia is supposed to wet the pants now .

vic · Post by **vic** » 06 Mar 2014 20:28

Obama and Kerry are in, on what is happening, they are not ignorant idiots. Obama seems to be funded by elite which wants to keep crude oil prices high and print currency. Obama has never ever done anything against US oligarchs. He is black face with white heart, the worst form of Oreo cookie.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2014 20:40

UB you do have a way of painting with words.

Seriously need to blog this to get more traction.

vic, Another way of saying that is US elite factions want a revival of the Cold War to jump start the moribund economy. There are reams of tomes written about how WWII revived the US econmy after the Great Depression. BO's small steps of punishing India for H1B and phrama wont cut the mustard.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Mar 2014 20:48

Crimea referendum on joining Russian Federation on March 16.
Will UkNa not try to invade - leading to Saakashvili /Georgia Vodka Revisit? I don't see how they will give up Odessa w/o a fight - that would leave UkNa totally landlocked, forcing Chevron gas plans to wait until pipelines are complete - or railroads.

10 days to WW3?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2014 20:59

UlanBatori wrote:Crimea referendum on joining Russian Federation on March 16.
Will UkNa not try to invade - leading to Saakashvili /Georgia Vodka Revisit? I don't see how they will give up Odessa w/o a fight - that would leave UkNa totally landlocked, forcing Chevron gas plans to wait until pipelines are complete - or railroads.

10 days to WW3?

What are the rabble rousers like Bulletin of Atomic Scientists(BAS) and Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) doing about updating the doomsday clock!

They are ready to scream nuke flashpoint everytime India responds to Pak terrrorism in Chasmere!

Play on Kashmir as Chasmere

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Mar 2014 21:01

Oh, wonderful! Sireens going off in downtown Ulan Bator West. "This is only a Test of the Emergency Notification System".
(if it were the real thing, pls put yuwar head between ur knees and kiss ur musharraf goodbye, u r in Ground Zerrow for at least 20 MT of goodies)