Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 21 May 2015 09:07

Why does BRF tolerate anti national posters! There is a limit to this besharmi!! We criticize all and sundry about inaction while we have no guts to take anti national elements on BRF to task or banning them for a while!!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 May 2015 10:52

A sober analysis of the accident will reveal the truth. The MKIs all come from diff. batches.each batch would've had its history of problems if any,and can be compared with the previous crashes.perhaps this report will clear any confusion.There is no Q that if the reason for the crash was found to be defective Russian supplied parts,the OEM will have to face the consequences. This should be a std. detail in an agreement with a foreign vendor.

http://defense-update.com/20150216_su30 ... V11_8uJhjo

Su-30MKI are made in India
Feb 16, 2015

IRKUT Corporation of Russia will complete deliveries of Su-30MKI aircraft kits to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) this year. By that time, IRKUT Corporation will have successfully delivered 222 aircraft kits for assembly at (HAL) Nashik plant, Irkut announced today.

Currently HAL is manufacturing parts from the raw material stage with complete transfer of technology from IRKUT Corporation under Phase IV of the assembly. HAL has also mastered the overhaul of Su-30MKI program and delivered the first overhauled aircraft to the Indian Air Force (IAF) at the end of 2014.
IRKUT supplied the overhaul equipment and assisted in their installation at HAL. The Russians also shared their experience in such work. IRKUT Corporation is happy to state that HAL and several Indian companies involved in the Su-30MKI program have mastered the technology of manufacturing many complex parts and assemblies of this front-line fighter aircraft.

Going forward, Irkut and HAL are planning to embark on an upgrading program of India’s Su-30MKI aircraft, with the integration of the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile. This upgrade will be undertaken by HAL in India. Forecast International analysts estimate the cost to integrate the BrahMos on India’s Su-30MKIs at around $50 million, which includes reducing the munition’s weight and performing some additional structural modifications to the aircraft itself.

One factor mentioned,that the aircraft crashed 38km from the air base. In a bird strike,would the aircraft have travelled that far before coming down? But flying at a speed of 300-500kmh it would take just a minute or less to reach that distance. It should not be difficult to determine the cause of this crash,as both pilots are safe and will give their version of events .

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 21 May 2015 13:05

Here's my take on Maintenance, Spares, Production Management & Operational Logistics.

Any modern weapon system, like tank or aircraft is a sum of parts.

There are three phases of any system - Development, Production & Operations.

From an Indian & Russian perspective -

There are different agencies for these different phases. For example Development Agency would be (OKB Sukhoi now Sukhoi JSC) for Su-30MKI, ADA for Tejas or CVRDE for Arjun. Production Agency would be IAPO/HAL for Su-30MKI, HAL for Tejas and HVF Avadi for Arjun. Operating Agencies are IAF & IA.

During development, the developing agency will procure sub-components in small quantities, primarily for testing purposes. Usually it is small & medium enterprises who provide these quantities. We see DRDO rfp’s on this forum, for ramjet nozzles & other stuff. Those rfp’s are for small development quantities

Once a system completes development trials and moves into production, the developer, typically shares product specifications, manufacturing techniques and available subcontractors to the production agency, like OKB Sukhoi to IAPO & HAL, or ADA to HAL or DRDO to OFB.

More often than not, the sub contractors are able to provide only lab quantities, and are not able to scale up to production quantities. So the production agency has to again set up a new subcontractor base. New subcontractors will need to set up infrastructure. Existing subcontractors, say for example, for MiG-21 or 27 will need to upgrade production facilities. That requires immediate finance, and returns are long term. This takes time low initial production rates.

Other inhibiting factors are the production engineers being very new to recently developed technology. Development Agency are usually not mandated nor incentivized to get into production work. This causes further delay. DRDO scientist progresses his career on the number of projects he works on & completes, and not how much he helps HAL or OFB in smoothening production or helping IAF in inducting.

Finally, the plane or tank gets into operations. Typically a single squadron or regiment is formed to operationally assess the system. Like 24th Squadron for Su-30MKI or 45 Squadron for Tejas, or the initial two Pinaka regiments or two Akash regiments.

During this phase, kinks are discovered, like low TBO for Al-31FP engines, nicks in blades, etc. The feedback is shared with development & production agencies.

Which is why when BR posters say why 2 regiments of Pinaka or Akash or Dhanush guns are inducted instead of 20, it sounds amateurish. Recently developed & produced systems require time for production agencies to build infrastructure and ramp up production, and for users to gain operational systems. If immediately ordered into mass production, then un-identified kinks will get propagated, and make operational systems defective. Rectification is a time consuming & costly process, that multiply with more systems to rectify.

As with developer -> producer, the operator gains his knowledge from the producer, and to a lesser extent, from the developer. So the operator’s understanding is new.

During this phase, the operating agency, IAF or IA, gains understanding of spares consumption. They typically place orders for spares through OEM (IAPO or HAL or HVF Avadi). And these orders are ad-hoc.

However, the producer’s subcontractors are geared to produce based on production quantities and ad-hoc quantities represent a problem.

If they invest in making additional quantities, then after the operating user’s ad-hoc order, the additional production infrastructure might remain un-utilized or under-utilized. This might make repayment of financing difficult.

If the production line is being moved from Russia to India by IAPO to HAL, the process becomes even more complex, with passing the buck between HAL & IAPO.

If it comes as Semi Knocked Down (SKD) or Completely Knocked Down (CKD) kits from IAPO, it becomes infinitely complex with orders going from IAF -> HAL -> IAPO -> its subcontractor.

Net effect of this is a shortage of spares and aircraft get grounded.

If the designer improves a part, then the whole cycle repeats.

This is not prevalent in Western systems, because the developer & manufacturer are the same, eg Boeing & Dassault, and operators like USAF forming program offices with logistics teams that join during the development phase itself giving valuable operational inputs to developers & producers. This is also why Mirage 2000, C-17, C-130 & P-8I cost more, because they come with integrated logistics packages. Ever heard of Mirage 2000, C-17, C-130 or P-8I facing spares shortage?

These lessons were learnt over time during Akash & Pinaka induction, and now that issues are overcome and systems proven as reliable, the production & induction is ramping up.

I haven't touched upon training. Ideally simulators need to be built after all testing is completed, and test pilots need to train initial pool of operator's flight instructors. However, in case of concurrent development, like Tejas or JSF, the full performance envelope of the system is not known. So as operations ramp up. this lack of knowledge might cause users to crash. Users, no matter how experienced, will not have the extensive flight hours or specialized training of test pilots.

Few posts above are DGCA report of BSF Dhruv crash caused by inadequate pilot understanding of Dhruv performance envelope.

My solution - proper empowered Program Offices under MoD to oversee Development, Production, Induction & Operations right from the time design is put on paper until the weapon system is decommissioned. These Program Offices will need to be staffed by all concerned agencies, ADA & or Dassault, HAL & or IAPO, and the services. The Program Office needs to have sufficient executive powers to extract relevant actions from these respective agencies. Like ATV Project under PMO that has such powers.

Among the issues that will get sorted are logistics & training.

Also required is a defence manufacturing financing agency. Defence Manufacturing with high capital expenditure and returns over long periods of time (10-30 years) is not a viable investment option for banks & FI’s. A Defence Manufacturing Financing Institution on the lines of IDBI will greatly help defence manufacturing.

The fact that none of this is in place shows the immaturity of our Mil-Ind complex and the lack of foresight & vision among our leaders.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 21 May 2015 14:20

The mki involved in the latest crash is from 02 squadron and I presume they are from 3rd batch

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 22 May 2015 01:36

Philip sir,

The Su-27 family is one the best planes to have been ever designed and built by mankind. But like any other fighter plane, they would crash once in a while. Anybody who questions this is a fool. You know you don't have to defend everything Russian! There is nothing to defend in this case!!

But your assertions that it probably crashed because it was Indian-made and Indian-maintained is downright deplorable. I don't know how much longer this attitude can be tolerated without warnings!

srai · Post by **srai** » 22 May 2015 03:06

Good post tsarkar.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 May 2015 17:50

Indranil,I never said that,pl don't put words into my posts which do not exist.I posted the history of the aircraft showing the induction from completely built Russian ones,to Russian kits assembled in India and now with official reports of the aircraft being "made in India" from raw material and locally manufactured components.If you identify the batch where the aircraft came from,the task of identifying the cause is easier,as each batch may have experienced some unique,recurring problems,which may have been identified and traced to components,etc.

Indranil is spot on.The "empowered boss" is what is needed as project heads.He was missing (even after he was chosen right upto the PM,deliberately kept out by babudom/DRDO) as ADA Dir-Gen with "hire and fire" powers for the LCA. The result is plain to see.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 May 2015 18:47

When Russian planes crash, there is a sudden need to figure out whether DPSUs were involved, even a single screw by HAL makes it fully responsible. Whereas if crooked Russians make sure that TOT to HAL is delayed, delay spares and what not, that's fine too. All HALs fault. Some folks think that the whole forum cant see through these antics.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 22 May 2015 19:14

Universal Reco Pod, Looks like SLAR on Flanker

http://russianplanes.net/images/to164000/163494.jpg

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 May 2015 19:17

IAF already has an Israeli solution in place. The PRC will probably purchase a few of these.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 22 May 2015 20:53

Philip wrote:Indranil,I never said that,pl don't put words into my posts which do not exist.

This is what you had written, did you not? I am posting entire paragraph so that I don't qoute out of context.

Nevertheless,the aircraft that crashed needs to be identified as from which batch it arrived,the latest aircraft being manufactured with desi materials upto 70$ indigenous. Previous reports said that the service availability of the MKIs were hampered due to poor maintenance,spares shortage and engine problems.The global record of SU-30s in service with other nations must also be examined. Whether the aircraft was an "India built/origin" one,or from Russian import kits.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 30 May 2015 10:07

Parliamentary panel concerned that Sukhoi-30 fighters have no protective shelters

The Parliamentary Committee on Defence has noted with concern that the frontline combat aircraft of the Indian Air Force (IAF), Sukhoi-30MKI, do not have protection of hardened shelters in air bases which would save them from direct hits of bombs in the event of a war.

The report, which was submitted in parliament recently, says that “the Committee are concerned to find that our air force is already short of planes and worse than that hardened shelters are not available for even the limited numbers of aircraft that is available with the Service”.

The IAF informed the committee in oral evidence that the aircraft are deprived of hardened shelters because the Sukhoi-30 MKI cannot be fit into the existing ones because of their large size. “It is a much bigger aircraft. Therefore some New Generation Hardened Aircraft Shelter (NGHAS) has to be made in which not only a SU-30 can fit but also servicing, loading of weapons and maintenance activities can be done inside the shelter,” the committee was informed.

The committee members were also informed by representatives of the MoD that the NGHAS “is a large project and it costs thousands of crores of rupees”. It was further informed that NGHAS are specialised structures and “are designed to save a Sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft from direct hit of 2000 lbs bomb”.

The committee, which is headed by Major General BC Khanduri (retd) noted that it is extremely pertinent that no damage is caused to the available aircraft. It also said that while the New Generation Hardened Aircraft Shelter (NGHAS) project is conceptualised for this purpose, nevertheless, the committee desired that there should not be any delay in execution, as such delays have become a common feature of all the projects.

It was in 2002 that the first Russian-made Sukhoi-30MKI variant was accepted into the IAF while in 2004 the first indigenously assembled Su-30MKI entered service. The IAF had signed a contract initially for 272 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft to form 13 squadrons. The IAF informed the committee that the delivery of Sukhoi-30 MKI will continue till 2030, resulting in equipping 3 more squadron in the next four to five years. The IAF requires at least 45 fighter squadrons to counter a two front collusive threat against Pakistan and China. The IAF today has 35 active fighter squadrons as against a Government authorized strength of 42 squadrons.

In its recently tabled report on the manufacture of Sukhoi-30 MKI by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) too had pointed out certain anomalies with the aircraft due to it being parked in the open sun.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 31 May 2015 18:54

I don't think that there is any bias at all in my statements posted.If you want to get at the truth,you must examine the history of the aircraft to identify the defect.It's the same with the auto industry,for instance recalls of cars because of defective airbags manufactured by one Japanese co. used by several manufacturers .In fact I ckd. with the OEM of my car about the origin of the airbags. Other defects noted come from specific batches,as recall notices indicate and our MKIs have been bought outright,assembled from OEM kits,and now are being made with "70%" of indigenous raw materials.

Its the same with aircraft.As greater indigenisation takes place,whether it is aircraft or autos,the quality of supply chain components needs to be very carefully monitored. As many have often pointed out,we do not as yet have as many dedicated aerospace component manufacturers as the other developed nations have.Our base is narrow. The situation is changing with the entry of pvt. industry in greater force. It should not be too difficult to trace the problem of the last MKI crash.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 May 2015 19:05

the lack of HAS would cost us dearly if a shower of cruise missiles and SRBMS are sent our way on day1.

this issue has been known since the su30 was inducted but even pune does not seem to have them.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 31 May 2015 19:14

Every time one flies out and into Pune,one shakes one's head at the sight of neat rows of Flankers on the tarmac waiting to be picked off in a surprise raid/attack. Leave alone their vulnerability,what about the aircraft's sensitive components melting in heat wave conditions? Stealth fighters are supposed to have air-con hangars,ICU style attention to preserve their stealth features.I seriously wonder how we are going to manage once we obtain stealth fighters whether the FGFA,AMCA whatever.

Here are some important views of former DRDO chief Avinash Chander on the Sukhoi acquisition and LCA MK-2.,from the DRDO td. posted by Sagar.

This arrangement that Hindustan Aeronautics has had with Sukhoi and other companies in the past...some amount of technology transfer has already taken place. But, maybe that has not been absorbed very well into the system...

It has been fairly well absorbed. I would not say that absorption is not there, however there has been no drive to enhance or build on that absorption.

What do you have to say about CAG's recent criticism of Tejas? You just said that LCA has helped establish an industrial base. The project has been criticised for being delayed and CAG says that the LCA does not meet IAF's requirements...

Delay is a relative word. In India, we have a tendency to take up very ambitious time frames. No aircraft can be made in less than 15 years, anywhere in the world. We have to see whether we have built sufficient capability in the system for the next product to be made faster. If you see a product development cycle it is asymptotic. The first product will always take a long gestation time because you are building capability, knowledge and an industrial base. For example, if I have to take LCA Mark II and start today, I am sure within the next eight years we can get the Mark II.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 31 May 2015 19:21

They should atleast build a basic Shelter to prevent exposure of MKI to heat and other weather related issues.

Seen few times MKI parked in open exposed to the sun sometimes just the canopy covered with cover , you dont want to keep a $60 million fighter out there in the open just like that unless you are at war and on frontlines with little infra

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 31 May 2015 19:31

Singha wrote:the lack of HAS would cost us dearly if a shower of cruise missiles and SRBMS are sent our way on day1.

this issue has been known since the su30 was inducted but even pune does not seem to have them.

HAS program is different and marked as such. FYI (it should make you happy since you flagged it earlier), there is now a separately funded huge program to make Su-30 sized HAS and is underway. It is designed to protect from heavy penetrating bombs.

Hardened Aircraft Structure
Hardened Aircraft Structure (HAS) provides protection against air blast, ground shock and direct
penetration and fragmentation hazard of close-in detonation of bombs, and capable of withstanding the direct hit of penetration bombs and its design has been finalised, vetted, and provided to MoD

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 31 May 2015 19:33

Austin wrote:They should atleast build a basic Shelter to prevent exposure of MKI to heat and other weather related issues.

Seen few times MKI parked in open exposed to the sun sometimes just the canopy covered with cover , you dont want to keep a $60 million fighter out there in the open just like that unless you are at war and on frontlines with little infra

Those shelters are now coming up at all bases.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gHhUDTOtRpU/T ... 786941.jpg

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 01 Jun 2015 09:46

At Goa Airport, even Tu-142s seem parked out in open.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Jun 2015 10:09

Karan M wrote:
Austin wrote:They should atleast build a basic Shelter to prevent exposure of MKI to heat and other weather related issues.

Seen few times MKI parked in open exposed to the sun sometimes just the canopy covered with cover , you dont want to keep a $60 million fighter out there in the open just like that unless you are at war and on frontlines with little infra
Those shelters are now coming up at all bases.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gHhUDTOtRpU/T ... 786941.jpg

Sunlight proof but that shelters is hardly Bullet or cluster Ammunition proof, a 250kg bomb dropped within 50 meters of the aircraft will disable it, advantage is the shelters and aircraft will move so you cant have exact GPS cordinaates.

Would ideally like Bomb shelters will reqiure direct CM or 500KG bomb hits.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Jun 2015 10:26

The basic shelter should be a significant milestone in itself as it would prevent aircraft direct exposure to heat , rains etc this was something needed for all our aircraft from day one , you dont want to keep your multimillion dollah aircraft direcly exposed to weather unless its in bone yard.

Ofcourse hardened shelters are more than welcomes but its very expensive to build one for most aircraft and we dont need that as well

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Jun 2015 10:56

Aditya, see my prior post. HAS program is separate and proceeding in paraellel. It can withstand penetrating bomb hits.

srai · Post by **srai** » 01 Jun 2015 12:59

New Generation Hardened Aircraft Shelter (NGHAS) for Su-30MKI is a bonus as it would accommodate all combat aircraft types in the IAF's service. It would probably be able to fit 2 LCAs in it. I wonder if this is a part of the ongoing Modernisation of Air Field Infrastructure (MAFI) project.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Jun 2015 19:14

This is perhaps the most overlooked aspect of our defence preparedness.We only look at the big tkt items,capital acquisitions,ignoring MRO,support facilities,training,etc. The news about the delay in the new N-sub base on the east coast due to funds shortage,saddens the heart.Where will our SSBNs then base themselves? Supporting SSBNs requires an enormous set up ,not just for the subs,their N-reactors,but also the missiles and their N-warheads. Better "accommodation" for our cutting edge strike fighters will reduce maintenance due to their being roasted in the heat and dust at their bases,saving scarce money and increasing the combat availability of the fleet,apart from reducing their vulnerability during a war.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 05 Jun 2015 20:55

aircraft don't need to be in dispersal or shelters unless there is an elevated or imminent threat. for regular flight operations in peace time it is very inconvenient to have aircraft so dispersed. accounts of the 71 war explain how the IAF has learned that lesson after 65

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Jun 2015 11:32

Nice Documentary on Su-30MKI

Watan ke rakhwale sukhoi

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Jun 2015 13:20

Russia, India in talks on comprehensive modernization of Su-30MKI fighter jets

Russia and India are holding talks on comprehensive modernization of Su-30MKI fighter jet, deputy head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Konstantin Biryulin told TASS on Monday at the opening of Le Bourget Paris Air Show 2015.

Commenting on the situation with upgrading Indian Su-30MKI fighter jets, Biryulin, who head the Russian delegation to the show, stressed that "talks are underway with Indian partners on conducting a comprehensive modernization of Su-30MKI jets which were first supplied [to India] around 20 years ago."

"The modernization package includes onboard communication and data transfer systems, as well as radar equipment of Su-30MKI fighter jets. All these systems will be upgraded," he said.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 15 Jun 2015 22:30

Karan M wrote:
Austin wrote:They should atleast build a basic Shelter to prevent exposure of MKI to heat and other weather related issues.

Seen few times MKI parked in open exposed to the sun sometimes just the canopy covered with cover , you dont want to keep a $60 million fighter out there in the open just like that unless you are at war and on frontlines with little infra
Those shelters are now coming up at all bases.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gHhUDTOtRpU/T ... 786941.jpg

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Jun 2015 23:20

Kersi: I am sure Karan knows, that is not a HAS. That shelter was built primarily for protection against the elements of the weather and that picture was taken at Lohegaon AFS. Looking at that air base, I do not know how or where you can build HAS to house 15+ aircraft per squadron. That base is home to two Rambha squadrons - No 20 Lightning and No 30 Rhinos. In addition it is also used as the Pune Airport for civilian flights. Space is a premium. Building HAS at Lohegaon AFS might also be counter productive. Look how deep Lohegaon AFS is within India. There is no way the PAF can fly that deep in without being undetected. Building them along the border air bases makes perfect sense. Take a look at Jaisalmer AFS for example. Weather protection shelters are more than sufficient for Lohegaon AFS and others like it. At bases like these, the weather is the greater enemy. Like they say in real estate - location, location, location.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 15 Jun 2015 23:22

Singha wrote:the lack of HAS would cost us dearly if a shower of cruise missiles and SRBMS are sent our way on day1.

this issue has been known since the su30 was inducted but even pune does not seem to have them.

forget cruise missiles/srbms. These flankers are sitting ducks for any half decent team of special operators/saboteurs.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Jun 2015 23:30

darshhan: And so is every fighter, at every base, at any location on earth. For a team of dedicated & professional special operators, HAS is just another hurdle to overcome. You require some hardcore security at airbases to prevent that. And still if successful, the methodology of patrolling and securing air bases will change after the first strike. The element of surprise will only last for the first strike.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 15 Jun 2015 23:30

Ofcourse hardened shelters are more than welcomes but its very expensive to build one for most aircraft and we dont need that as well

compared to the expense of losing high value equipment??

at least some percentage should be covered by Hardened shelters

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Jun 2015 23:34

Take a look at this guys...this is even more expensive than HAS.

Underground Hangar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_hangar

The Indian Air Force operates underground hangars. Sukhoi Su-30 MKI have been stationed at Trishul Air-base situated in Bareilly, Uttar Pradesh, India. It houses one of the largest underground hangars in Asia. Adampur, situated in Punjab, houses an air-base with underground hangars. It is the home base for MiG-29 and MiG-21 interceptors.

Pakistan has an underground hangar facility for the Pakistan Air Force at PAF Base Mushaf, Sargodha, Punjab.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Jun 2015 01:57

Kersi, please reread the post I am replying to. I am aware of what HAS are (thanks Rakesh).

Austin says at least simple shelters should be there for weather protection. I said yes, there are those and they are up. Thats the pic in my post.

Details of new HAS being built NGHAS program are in my prior post.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Jun 2015 01:59

darshhan wrote:
Singha wrote:the lack of HAS would cost us dearly if a shower of cruise missiles and SRBMS are sent our way on day1.

this issue has been known since the su30 was inducted but even pune does not seem to have them.
forget cruise missiles/srbms. These flankers are sitting ducks for any half decent team of special operators/saboteurs.

FYI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garud_Commando_Force

After attempts by terrorists to attack two major air bases in Jammu and Kashmir in 2001, Indian Air Force commanders felt the need for a specialized force to protect these critical elements and to have a dedicated Commando Force trained in Special Forces techniques, Combat Search and Rescue, Reconnaissance, Counter Insurgency (COIN) Operations and Emergency in response to terror-threats to airfields.

Their role (in part) is similar to RAF Regiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Regiment

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Jun 2015 02:01

Austin wrote:Russia, India in talks on comprehensive modernization of Su-30MKI fighter jets
Russia and India are holding talks on comprehensive modernization of Su-30MKI fighter jet, deputy head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Konstantin Biryulin told TASS on Monday at the opening of Le Bourget Paris Air Show 2015.

Commenting on the situation with upgrading Indian Su-30MKI fighter jets, Biryulin, who head the Russian delegation to the show, stressed that "talks are underway with Indian partners on conducting a comprehensive modernization of Su-30MKI jets which were first supplied [to India] around 20 years ago."

"The modernization package includes onboard communication and data transfer systems, as well as radar equipment of Su-30MKI fighter jets. All these systems will be upgraded," he said.

Interesting. Looks like we will be doing the cockpits ourselves while the Russians give new radars and datalinks.

PS: Over 100 Su-30s are now flying with SAMTEL displays.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Jun 2015 02:07

Surya wrote:
Ofcourse hardened shelters are more than welcomes but its very expensive to build one for most aircraft and we dont need that as well
compared to the expense of losing high value equipment??

at least some percentage should be covered by Hardened shelters

Surya, NGHAS program is for large fighters (ie Su's) and will protect from high explosive penetrating bombs. Very expensive but coming up on key bases.

srai · Post by **srai** » 16 Jun 2015 03:28

Kersi D wrote:...

Some of the pics of hardened aircraft shelters, on BR gallery are :

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 1.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 3.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 2.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 7.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 8.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 7.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 2.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galle ... 7.jpg.html

Several new HAS have come up at some airfields in eastern area. I am sure they must be big enough for SU 30.

Kersi

HAS on the above photos look to be of old design. I doubt it could withstand 2,000lb bomb strike which is what the NGHAS supposed to provide. Waiting to see what the NGHAS design looks like.

srai · Post by **srai** » 16 Jun 2015 03:37

Karan M wrote:
Austin wrote:Russia, India in talks on comprehensive modernization of Su-30MKI fighter jets
...
Interesting. Looks like we will be doing the cockpits ourselves while the Russians give new radars and datalinks.

PS: Over 100 Su-30s are now flying with SAMTEL displays.

Likely the lessons from the LCA ergonomics design to suit Indian anthropomorphic measurements will be applied here.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 21 Jun 2015 20:06

https://twitter.com/Defence_India/statu ... 56/photo/1

Indian Air Force ‏@Defence_India

IAF Sukhoi su-30MKI landed in India's overseas airbase-Farkhor,Tajikistan #AirForce #India @DefenceAviation