ABM/Missile Defense Discussion

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 08 Mar 2009 18:50

For the gurus:
How many incoming missiles can be tracked simultaneously & intercepted? If the enemy fires 2 missiles, will our system only take care of one?
Perhaps too early to ask.

Also is this directional gumball warhead also used in S2S missiles (like Brahmos) to cause maximum damage?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 08 Mar 2009 18:58

Politics of Missile Defence

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Mar 2009 20:53

what is being communicated/controlled through the cable that you may see in
this picture (its tucked under the sandbag, perhaps to prevent burn)?

link

negi · Post by **negi** » 08 Mar 2009 20:54

Gurujano has there been an official release of MTI data from DRDO/MOD showing the actual interception ?

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Mar 2009 21:09

From Live fist:

To mimic the incoming enemy's ballistic missile trajectory, a Dhanush missile went to an altitude of 120-km and was launched from a ship about 100-km off the coast. The Interceptor missile was launched from mobile launcher located on the Wheeler Island Launch Complex.

Ramana garu,
The Dhanush traveled only 100 km as per the report and not the 1500 KM as you were mentioning.

However, the question arising from above statement is:
What was the modification if the Dhanush only flew 100 km at an altitude of 120 km? Doesnt the vanilla Dhanush also do that?

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Mar 2009 21:12

SaiK wrote:what is being communicated/controlled through the cable that you may see in
this picture (its tucked under the sandbag, perhaps to prevent burn)?

link

Is a naval ship present in the background out at sea?

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 08 Mar 2009 21:16

What difference does it make if the dhanush travelled 100 km or 1500 km? As long as it attained the speed and height that a 1500 km range IRBM does it should be good enuff, right? Maybe the dhanush was simply rising up while the ghada/ghodi would be coming down? Gurulog, help please.

PS: It says the ship was 100 km from coast. But how far from wheeler Island?

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Mar 2009 21:19

What difference does it make if the dhanush travelled 100 km or 1500 km? As long as it attained the speed and height that a 1500 km range IRBM does it should be good enuff, right? Maybe the dhanush was simply rising up while the ghada/ghodi would be coming down? Gurulog, help please.

My observation was only because many gurus were speculating that the Dhanush had acquired a range of 1500 KM due to "modifications".

It says the ship was 100 km from coast. But how far from wheeler Island?

Interesting observation!!!!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Mar 2009 22:21

sum wrote:From Live fist:
To mimic the incoming enemy's ballistic missile trajectory, a Dhanush missile went to an altitude of 120-km and was launched from a ship about 100-km off the coast. The Interceptor missile was launched from mobile launcher located on the Wheeler Island Launch Complex.
Ramana garu,
The Dhanush traveled only 100 km as per the report and not the 1500 KM as you were mentioning.

However, the question arising from above statement is:
What was the modification if the Dhanush only flew 100 km at an altitude of 120 km? Doesnt the vanilla Dhanush also do that?

Sum all BMs travel and elliptic trajectory with the center of the earth as one of the foci. So there are always a range of trajecotries (infinite solutions to the equation) of which you can select the one to mimic the incoming. The key points of above info are_ height of apogees is 120km and the incoming had a velocity to mimic a 1500km range vehicle. The max range velocity to attain the 1500km is 3.3km/sec as Arun stated. So in other words the target vehicle was able to attian that velocity meaning that much range if required. Or the only way a target can simulate something is when it is the something.

Also the Pradyumna demonstrated capability to take out incoming at ~ 3.3 km/sec. I suspect the reserve is ~ 4 km/sec which is IRBMs.

Also its sad they use land measures (KM) when dealing with missile range which is more like nautical miles to get a proper comaprison.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Mar 2009 22:38

gotcha

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Mar 2009 09:53

The key points of above info are_ height of apogees is 120km and the incoming had a velocity to mimic a 1500km range vehicle. The max range velocity to attain the 1500km is 3.3km/sec as Arun stated. So in other words the target vehicle was able to attian that velocity meaning that much range if required. Or the only way a target can simulate something is when it is the something.

Thanks for the info, Ramana-garu...

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 09 Mar 2009 19:17

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/unc ... 64598.html

India plans radars in space to boost missile defence system
March 9th, 2009 - 7:58 pm ICT by IANS -

New Delhi, March 9 (IANS) India is planning space-based radars to overcome the range impediment for its missile defence system, which was successfully tested March 6 and at present can destroy enemy missiles up to a range of 2,000 km only, an official said Monday. In a step towards indigenising the ballistic missile defence system, premier military research organisation Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has tested its interceptor missile for a third time.

“The interceptor can kill missiles up to 2,000 km class of systems. In phase-II, we are developing above 2,000 km class of systems… At present, ISRO (Indian Space Research Organisation) is developing a space-based surveillance system that will help us in phase-II,” chief controller of DRDO’s missile systems and the programme director V.K. Saraswat said.

Airborne radars mounted atop aircraft, which India is acquiring from Israel, will help track missiles above 2,000 km. For tracking missiles of the range of 6,000 km, the interceptors will take help of radars mounted on satellites.

Currently, the radars can cover an area of a radius of 600 km.

“You need much more energy for missiles of higher range. In terms of seeker, the time is very less as the speed of the missiles also increases,” Saraswat added.

India March 6 registered a hat-trick as an indigenous interceptor successfully neutralized an “enemy” ballistic missile at an altitude of 75 km and demonstrated its capability to defend itself against Chinese and Pakistani missiles.

The test was a key element in the efforts of the DRDO to put in place a missile defence shield to protect populated areas and vital installations like nuclear power plants from nuclear attacks.

“The whole process of target classification takes 30 seconds. Then the batteries (of the interceptor missile), which are in hot stand-by conditions, can be launched within 100-120 seconds of target detection,” Saraswat said.

“You cannot buy or borrow a ballistic missile defence system. It has to be homegrown. The US system is developed for their defence. The threat profile of our country is different and the system has to be customised to suit the needs of our country,” Saraswat said talking in reference to the Israeli Arrow system and the American Patriot system courting the Indian defence establishment for possible orders.

The DRDO will be conducting five tests each for endo-atmospheric (below 30 km altitude), exo-atmospheric (above 30 km altitude) and integrated missile defence systems.

“By December 2010, we expect to complete the development of the missile system,” he added.

DRDO expects the ballistic missile shield to take care of threats from existing Chinese and Pakistani missiles. While Pakistan possesses missiles with ranges between 400 and 2,000 km, the Chinese arsenal varies from a range of 300 km to 2,800 km.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 09 Mar 2009 19:44

India’s ballistic missile defence system to be operational by 2011

New Delhi, Mar 9 (ANI): India’s indigenous Ballistic Missile Defence System, which will be able to intercept and destroy enemy missile, will be ready for deployment by 2011

DRDO Chief Controller (research and development) and Air Defence Programme Director, Dr. V K Saraswat, today said that at least five repeated tests are needed before making the missile defence system operational.

‘The tests will be completed by the end of year 2010 and the interceptor missile system will be ready for deployment by 2011,’ Dr. Saraswat added.

Talking about the capability of the missile in taking on numerous targets, he said that the BMD could handle multiple targets simultaneously.

Dr. Saraswat further said that to get the required kill, there would be salvo of missiles fired at the incoming target simultaneously.

He said that it would take two to three minutes to identify and fire the missile at a incoming target, and pointed that radars located at Paradip and Pune would take 30 seconds to identify the incoming missile, adding ‘Our radars are capable of handling 200 targets at a time.’

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 09 Mar 2009 20:14

How smart is it to disclose the location of the radars? I sure hope the plan more than 1 radar on each front.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Mar 2009 21:23

AdityaM, Dr. Saraswat says it can handle 200 targets at a time. In other words localised general nuke war for thats what those targets willbe carrying. By trying to negate the PRC's 2800km or <3000km vehicles, India is raising the cost of attack for PRC such that it has to use ICBMs to do the needful. And there arent many of those with them at this time.

sivabala · Post by **sivabala** » 09 Mar 2009 21:32

I have a question. Perhaps some one can enlighten me.
Let us assume the enemy launched 10 missiles from the same base with a time lag of few seconds.

Assuming our ABM can shoot the first one. The debris will produce hundreds of fragments, which may reduce the effectiveness of radar tracking.

How can this be handled?

I believe this is not a newbie Q

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Mar 2009 21:43

radars located at Paradip and Pune would take 30 seconds to identify the incoming missile, adding ‘Our radars are capable of handling 200 targets at a time.’

So, we are still dependent on the two Green-pines we had imported( and modified locally to get the "swordfish")?

I had assumed that we would have started building more of the "swordfish" given that we have mastered the technology.

IMO, the reference to Pune hosting the other radar(other than the one at ITR) could have been avoided unless they plan to shift it soon!!!

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 09 Mar 2009 21:52

I can't believe the metro's won't have a swordfish radar protecting them. Even if they have > 600 km range at least half a dozen are necessary.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 09 Mar 2009 22:39

Indian Ballistic Missile better than American: DRDO

New Delhi, March 09: Terming the Patriot Advanced Capability (PAC) III anti-missile system as "outdated", top DRDO scientist V K Saraswat said the Indian Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) shield was better than the American system.

"PAC III is an outdated system. Our Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile is 30 percent superior in terms of range and capability. AAD intercepts at much higher ranges and altitudes compared to PAC III as it has only 15km range for BMD," he told a press conference on the successful test of BMD system on March 6.

On the role of foreign countries in the Air Defence (AD) programme, Saraswat said Russia, Israel and France have provided assistance in areas where DRDO needed help for "bridging technology gap and accelerating technology development."

Russia has helped India develop the new Radio Frequency Seeker for the interceptor missile, Israel provided help in developing the 'Swordfish' long-range tracking radar and the French have given the Fire Control System for the BMD.

Saraswat said the new warhead weighed only around 30 kg but was able to generate the impact that a 150 kg omni-directional warhead could make.

He said the new guidance system in the missile allowed it to tackle the maneuvers of enemy's incoming missile and could be used against the Russian Topol M class of missiles, which move in a zig-zag manner.

The DRDO official also said the system was "fully automated" and did not require human intervention in activating it in case of an attack by ballistic missiles.

"Under the present system, the interceptor missiles are on 'Hot Stand-by mode' and can take-off within 120 seconds of the detection of the incoming missile by the tracking radars," he said.

Saraswat also said the current missile is 30 per cent more powerful than the missile used in the December 2006 test of the endo-atmospheric interceptor.

He said during the flight of the interceptor missile towards the ballistic missile, the interceptor is constantly updated about the position of its target by the ground-based radars.

During a war, unlike the demonstration phase, a volley of interceptor missiles would be launched against enemy ballistic missiles to improve the hit probability, he said.

Commenting on the possibility of the interceptor being jammed by enemy missiles, Saraswat said with the missile having only one link with the ground, it was "very difficult" to jam it as various counter measures were in place to stop such an effort.

He said work on developing a new interceptor 'PDV' for phase-I programme was also going on.

The official said to tackle missiles with a striking range of over 6,000 km, hypersonic interceptor missiles will have to be developed for the phase 2 of the air defence programme.

"Phase 2 interceptors will have speeds of 6-7 Mach and they will be hypersonic. Missiles will have lesser time to intercept and our guidance systems have to be far more energetic and quick responsive," he said.

In the previous two trials, DRDO had successfully tested the BMD system in November 2006 outside the atmosphere at a 48-km altitude and inside atmosphere at an altitude of 15-km in December 2007.

DRDO has developed a two-tier system with the PAD missiles intercepting ballistic missiles at altitudes between 50-80 km and the Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile destroying them at heights between 15-30 km.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 10 Mar 2009 00:57

They are in development phase for which 2 radars are sufficient. There was a news article posted here some time back that talked about procurement of 24 swordfish radars. That would probably happen when the system is ready for induction and govt approves funds for the same.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 10 Mar 2009 00:59

DRDO developing shield against ICBM

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index.php? ... 6&Itemid=1

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has begun developing an extended range versions of its home-grown missile defence shield to shoot down intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) or missiles which have ranges greater than 5000 km. Phase 2 of the missile defence shield will be the class of the US Terminal High Altitude Area Defence (THAAD) missiles, Dr V.K. Saraswat, DRDO Chief Controller (Missiles and Strategic Systems), said today.

While Saraswat did not mention it, defence analysts feel that Phase 2 of the missile defence shield is almost certainly meant to defend India from China's arsenal of ICBMs. China is the only Asian country which has an ICBM arsenal, including submarine-launched ballistic missiles.

The Ballistic Missile Interceptor, which successfully intercepted a Dhanush-ballistic missile test-fired from a warship – the INS Subhadra – is part of the ballistic missile defence system which can only shoot down intermediate range ballistic missiles (IRBMs) of upto 2000 km range like Pakistan's Ghauri and Shaheen missiles. "This system will be out mainstay until we enter Phase 2," Dr Saraswat said, addressing the media after Friday's successful test-firing of the Advanced Air Defence System from Wheeler Island. The Phase 1 is to be completed and ready for induction by 2011.

Dr Saraswat said that Phase 2 was far more challenging because it calls for detecting ICBMs hurtling at twice the speeds of intermediate range missiles. It not only requires bigger interceptor missiles flying at hypersonic speeds of between six and seven times the speed of sound (present interceptor speeds are between Mach 4 and Mach 5) but also radars to detect incoming ICBMs at ranges of over 1500 kms as opposed to the current detection ranges of over 600 km.

Phase 2 will be part of the DRDO's attempts at incrementally increasing the BMD capabilities of the home-grown system. Friday's test was the third successful test of the ballistic missile since it was first test-fired in December 2006 – the first test shot of the exo-atmospheric interceptor down a missile 45 km away; the second test a year later proved the endo-atmospheric or Advanced Air Defence (AAD) interceptor, which shot downed an incoming ballistic missile 15 km away and Friday's test, shot down a ballistic missile 48 km away. The interceptor used a 'gimbaled directional warhead' or a warhead only one side of which explodes close to an incoming ballistic missile, shattering it.

For Phase 2, Dr Saraswat said that the organisation had already begun development of a two-stage hypersonic missile interceptor called the PDV and it would be ready in two years. It had also put in place the building blocks for developing extended range radars of over 1500 km.

Unlike the exo-atmospheric interceptor, which was test-fired on Friday, the PDV has two stages, a liquid and a solid. The PDV is a longer missile with two solid stages. It is in the class of the THAAD or Terminal High Altitude Area Defence missiles deployed by the United States as part of its missile shield beginning this year. THAAD boasts of missiles which can intercept ballistic missiles over 200 km away and tracking radars with ranges of over 1000 km.

The only Achilles heel in the Phase 1 of the ballistic missile interceptor is that it cannot tackle strategic cruise missiles like the Tomahawk flying a little over tree-top height. For intercepting such flat-trajectory weapons would call for airborne systems capable of tracking them, Saraswat said.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 10 Mar 2009 04:15

India kicks off work on advanced missile defence shield
Buoyed by the successful testing of its fledgling ballistic missile defence, India is pushing ahead with an ambitious version of the star wars project capable of shooting down incoming ICBMs in the 5,000 km range.

The phase-II of the BMD systems, likely to be deployed by 2014, will be an important part of India's defence as both China and Pakistan possess nuclear capable missiles. Once the BMD is in place it will place India in a fairly exclusive club alongside US, Russia and Israel.

India will be playing catch up with China which stunned the world by shooting down a weather satellite with a missile in January 2007. Putting in place a system capable of intercepting inter-continental ballistic missiles would enhance India's strategic prowess.

While a BMD system can be overwhelmed by a flurry of missiles or a low-flying cruise, it would be a important part of India's defence against the danger of ballistic missiles.

If the ongoing Phase-I BMD system is geared to tackling enemy missiles with a 2,000-km range, Phase-II is enhance capacities significantly. Plans are also afoot to have space-based surveillance systems to ensure a hostile threat can be detected even earlier than the present long-range tracking radars (LRTRs) used in the BMD system, which track the `enemy' missile as well as guide the `interceptor' missile in destroying it.

Sources said DRDO has told the government that while the Phase-I systems can be deployed from 2012 onwards, the Phase-II systems will come into operational play only from 2014 onwards at the earliest.

There will be another interesting spin-off from the indigenous two-tier BMD system, capable of tracking and destroying hostile missiles both inside (endo) and outside (exo) the earth's atmosphere. It will give India a potent anti-satellite (ASAT) weapon since technology required for "neutralisation'' of a ballistic missile or a satellite is somewhat similar.

India, of course, has received presentations from the three countries which have operational BMD or anti-ballistic missile systems -- US (Patriot Advanced Capability-3), Russia (S-300V) and Israel (Arrow-2) -- as of now.

Though all three are hawking their systems to India, New Delhi has decided to go in for its own "home-grown'' BMD system specifically designed to meet its security needs. Moreover, there are financial and feasibility concerns about importing foreign systems.

"We are cooperating with countries to bridge our technology gaps. US, for instance, has a different threat profile. Its systems will not be suitable for us. Our system has to cater for our own threat profile,'' DRDO chief controller for missiles, Dr V K Saraswat, said on Monday.

Dismissing PAC-3 as "an outdated system'', the scientist said India's BMD system was "20-30% more capable'' than it. He, however, acknowledged the BMD system had received some help from countries like Israel (LRTRs), France (fire-control radars) and Russia (seekers).

DRDO, of course, often promises more than it can deliver. This time, however, it sounds quite confident, especially after the third test of the Phase-I BMD system on March 6, when a two-stage exo-atmospheric interceptor missile intercepted an `enemy' missile at an 80-km altitude.

In the earlier tests, in November 2006 and December 2007, the enemy missiles had been "killed'' at altitudes of 48-km and 15-km respectively. The next test, with both exo and endo interceptor missiles in an integrated mode, is slated for September.

"We will complete all our tests for Phase-I by 2010-2011. All BMD building blocks like long-range radars, communication network, mission control centre and launch control centre are in place,'' said Saraswat.

"What we are now perfecting are Phase-I interceptor missiles, which fly at 4.5 Mach high-supersonic speeds. We are already working on Phase-II interceptors, which will have hypersonic speeds of 6-7 Mach,'' he added.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 10 Mar 2009 04:26

Wow, the varying interpretation by different reporters of the same press conference is mind bogling. Off course Rajat has to throw in his own titbits!

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 10 Mar 2009 04:28

Ameet wrote: Unlike the exo-atmospheric interceptor, which was test-fired on Friday, the PDV has two stages, a liquid and a solid. The PDV is a longer missile with two solid stages.

This is good. Liquid fueled stage may cause unnecessary delays.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 10 Mar 2009 04:48

Nitesh wrote:http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/unc ... 64598.html

India plans radars in space to boost missile defence system
March 9th, 2009 - 7:58 pm ICT by IANS -

New Delhi, March 9 (IANS) India is planning space-based radars to overcome the range impediment for its missile defence system, which was successfully tested March 6 and at present can destroy enemy missiles up to a range of 2,000 km only, an official said Monday. In a step towards indigenising the ballistic missile defence system, premier military research organisation Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has tested its interceptor missile for a third time.

“The interceptor can kill missiles up to 2,000 km class of systems. In phase-II, we are developing above 2,000 km class of systems… At present, ISRO (Indian Space Research Organisation) is developing a space-based surveillance system that will help us in phase-II,” chief controller of DRDO’s missile systems and the programme director V.K. Saraswat said.

Airborne radars mounted atop aircraft, which India is acquiring from Israel, will help track missiles above 2,000 km. For tracking missiles of the range of 6,000 km, the interceptors will take help of radars mounted on satellites.

Currently, the radars can cover an area of a radius of 600 km.

Sounds like yindoos are looking for the bull eye itself.Phase-II might incorporate technologies needed for boost phase interception IMHO.
BTW......wot is the range of PAD and AAD themself?

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 10 Mar 2009 05:10

Ameet wrote:The only Achilles heel in the Phase 1 of the ballistic missile interceptor is that it cannot tackle strategic cruise missiles like the Tomahawk flying a little over tree-top height. For intercepting such flat-trajectory weapons would call for airborne systems capable of tracking them, Saraswat said.

and

k prasad wrote:Cruise missile defence requires Air based or space based detectors with extremely high signal processing power - to remove the ground clutter. Landlubber radars can't just handle it efficiently.

Can a network of Aerostat radars attached at ground to super-computers(on mobile trucks) for high speed signal processing do the job effectively than space based satellite systems? Space based systems do have weight constraints for signal processing equipment.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 10 Mar 2009 05:12

more over a LRTR-II (from phase-II development) stationed some where in the himalayan region(protected by a couple of ABM and SAM batteries itself) can make chinese piss in their own pants as their own ICBM`s may find it really hard to hide themself during their travel into Indian main land.

Swordfish-II with a tracking range of more than 1500km can easily cover more than half of the chinese territory.Added to that sat based tracking and detection will make the job far easier to yindoos while making it harder for chines.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 10 Mar 2009 05:16

Arya Sumantra wrote:
Ameet wrote:The only Achilles heel in the Phase 1 of the ballistic missile interceptor is that it cannot tackle strategic cruise missiles like the Tomahawk flying a little over tree-top height. For intercepting such flat-trajectory weapons would call for airborne systems capable of tracking them, Saraswat said.
and
k prasad wrote:Cruise missile defence requires Air based or space based detectors with extremely high signal processing power - to remove the ground clutter. Landlubber radars can't just handle it efficiently.
Can a network of Aerostat radars attached at ground to super-computers(on mobile trucks)[/b] for high speed signal processing do the job effectively than space based satellite systems? Space based systems do have weight constraints for signal processing equipment.

we are not developed yet up to that stage.Super computers themself need a lot of power and occupies a whole lot of space which is far more available on a truck (say a tatra carrying a green pine itslef).It needs high end air conditioning and ducting systems.

Your idea will fructify if supercomputers size decreases atleast 3 fold.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Mar 2009 05:43

'India easy target of enemy missiles'
Kalyan Ray, New Delhi, DH News Service:
"We have no capability to intercept a cruise missile," admitted V K Saraswat, one of the chief controllers in the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) in charge of missile defence.

Notwithstanding the successful ballistic missile defence test on Friday, India remains vulnerable to Chinese or Pakistani cruise missiles, as defence scientists are yet to come out with a strategy to intercept enemy cruise missiles.

“We have no capability to intercept a cruise missile,” admitted V K Saraswat, one of the chief controllers in the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) in charge of missile defence.

Designing a defence system against a cruise missile, which travels in an extremely low-altitude trajectory to avoid radar detection, requires air-borne surveillance and tracking system, which the Defence Research and Development Organisation lacks at the moment.

If the cruise missile — a flat trajectory weapon — travels at an altitude of 3-4 km above the ground, the Defence Research and Development Organisation radars will not be able to pick them up. Unless the missiles are detected, there is no question of intercepting the enemy missiles mid-way.

“But, the scientists at the Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) were developing a space-based surveillance system,” Saraswat said. However, it may take years before the cruise missile interception is realised.

Pakistan has its own ‘Babur’ (700-km range) and ‘Ra’ad’ (350 km) cruise missiles that can carry nuclear or conventional war-heads. Babur has the design features similar to the US Tomahawk missile and operated by the Pakistan Army.

Ra’ad, on the other hand, is an air-launched cruise missile for the Pakistani Air Force.

The missile was tested in 2008. China too has nine types of surface-to-surface and air-to-surface cruise missiles.
The Indian missile defence system that underwent three successful tests in the last three years can take care of the enemy’s ballistic missiles fired from a distance of 2000 km. The ballistic missile defence (BMD) system will be ready for deployment by 2011 after more trials.

Inter-continental missiles

Concurrently, the scientists are developing another shield for inter-continental ballistic missiles (ICBM) which have a range of 5000 km or more.

Since such long-range missiles carry much more energy, the defence system comprising the radar, the interceptor and its homing and guidance system have to be tailored for an ICBM. For the ICBMs, the interceptor would have to fly at a hypersonic velocity of 6-7 Mach (6-7 times the speed of sound) whereas for the existing BMD, the missile travels at a speed of 4.5 Mach, Saraswat said.

While the present Defence Research and Development Organisation radars have a range of 600 km, the scientists are upgrading their capability to 1500-km range for the ICBM project.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 10 Mar 2009 05:54

One more...

Swadeshi missile vs Patriot - Interceptor better than US system: Scientists

New Delhi, March 9: The missile-destroying interceptor India has tested is better than a US-made ballistic missile defence system whose capabilities have been presented by the Pentagon to India’s defence establishment, a senior Indian defence scientist said today.

“This is a strategic system that needs to be developed in India.… It can’t be bought or borrowed. A (foreign-made) ballistic missile defence system (originally) developed for a threat profile different from India’s may not be suitable,” said V.K. Saraswat, director of the Prithvi Air Defence, the indigenous interceptor. “We need a system tailored to meet our own threat profile.”

Here comes the sales pitch..

Senior representatives of the Indian armed forces and the defence ministry have attended live demonstrations of the US-made Patriot Advanced Capability-III ballistic missile defence system at least twice — enough to indicate that India was seriously considering its acquisition and that the maker of the system, Raytheon Corporation, was just as serious about selling it to India. India is also examining Russian and Israeli ballistic missile defence systems

“We do not want to talk about competition,” Saraswat said. “As far as we are concerned, we have been tasked to do a job, and that is what we are doing.”

Saraswat claimed India’s ballistic missile defence system was better than the US-made PAC-III. “The PAC-III is an outdated system. Our system is at least 25 per cent to 30 per cent superior to the PAC-III in range and capability. The PAC-III has only a 15km range,” Saraswat said.

Here comes the DDM interpretation as to why GOI thought it fit to ask DRDO to develop a BMD system.

A home-grown ballistic missile defence system could be cheaper than an imported one, but years of delay may increase lifecycle costs. However, its development could help the government drive a bargain with foreign makers and push costs of imports down.

All these 'reporters' attended the same press conference, and people here burst a vein reading their reports!

The only useful info in the whole report;

Saraswat and director of missiles Sudhir Mishra showed a video clip of the March 6 interceptor missile test from Dhamra island near the Orissa coast. The interceptor destroyed a Dhanush — an “aggressor” missile launched from a naval ship.

The interceptor, launched within 120 seconds after a ground-based radar detected the incoming missile, homed in on the target and destroyed it through an explosion when it was within nine metres of it.

OH, could we have a poll to select the best DDM...my vote goes to Deccan Herald..

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 10 Mar 2009 06:09

jaladipc wrote:
Arya Sumantra wrote: Can a network of Aerostat radars attached at ground to super-computers(on mobile trucks)[/b] for high speed signal processing do the job effectively than space based satellite systems? Space based systems do have weight constraints for signal processing equipment.

we are not developed yet up to that stage.Super computers themself need a lot of power and occupies a whole lot of space which is far more available on a truck (say a tatra carrying a green pine itslef).It needs high end air conditioning and ducting systems.

Your idea will fructify if supercomputers size decreases atleast 3 fold.

Am sure a space based solution would have similar miniaturization requirements owing to weight constraints unless that signal processing is again ground based with real time high speed link. And at the end of it all it can be shot down by the enemy's missile just before they start launching Cruise missiles at us. A balloon even if knocked down by enemy's missile would be cheaper and faster to replace than a satellite.
Add one more truck carrying the diesel generator(the kind our railway diesel engines carry) for power. Don't know how much power a supercompute consumes though. If it needs more power than this than clearly it isn't feasible on a mobile platform like trucks.

JMT

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 10 Mar 2009 07:04

Arya Sumantra wrote:
Arya Sumantra wrote: Can a network of Aerostat radars attached at ground to super-computers(on mobile trucks)[/b] for high speed signal processing do the job effectively than space based satellite systems? Space based systems do have weight constraints for signal processing equipment.

we are not developed yet up to that stage.Super computers themself need a lot of power and occupies a whole lot of space which is far more available on a truck (say a tatra carrying a green pine itslef).It needs high end air conditioning and ducting systems.

Your idea will fructify if supercomputers size decreases atleast 3 fold.

Am sure a space based solution would have similar miniaturization requirements owing to weight constraints unless that signal processing is again ground based with real time high speed link. And at the end of it all it can be shot down by the enemy's missile just before they start launching Cruise missiles at us. A balloon even if knocked down by enemy's missile would be cheaper and faster to replace than a satellite.
Add one more truck carrying the diesel generator(the kind our railway diesel engines carry) for power. Don't know how much power a supercompute consumes though. If it needs more power than this than clearly it isn't feasible on a mobile platform like trucks.

JMT

Arya saar there will be the obvious question of cost iteslt IMVHO the space based system will be a lot costlier also chicom is actively pusuing ASAT capability and that will present a whole new challenge in itself....also given that the aerostats would be cheaper we may be able to field more of them and thus they might be more survivable...

Also instead of having a super computer on the truck itself...we might be able to devise a system where the data from the aerostats gets transmitted to a central location where it can be worked upon...JMT

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Mar 2009 07:10

Arya Sumantra wrote:... And at the end of it all it can be shot down by the enemy's missile just before they start launching Cruise missiles at us. A balloon even if knocked down by enemy's missile would be cheaper and faster to replace than a satellite.

Sigh... just launch a nuke missile when a satellite is knocked down. And of course monitor your satellite 24x7.

More importantly, jingoes, check this video out...

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index.php? ... type=video

Some notes I can make:

1. It was Dhanush with liquid fuel first stage launched from INS Shubhadra
2. PAD appears "slow" to launch since the second camera is at quite a distant and there is no reference object to compare the speed.

vavinash wrote:I can't believe the metro's won't have a swordfish radar protecting them. Even if they have > 600 km range at least half a dozen are necessary.

You may not need a swordfish for each and every metro and you might not need half a dozen as well. Think it this way, for ballistic missiles there are only certain "ingress" points. Ballistics missile do not do a 45 degree or 90 degree turn, so you do not need a swordfish pointing south, south of Bombay. You may need a swordfish at Bhavnagar to protect anything south of it incl. Bombay, Hyderabad and B'glore from Ghada-Ghodi missiles.

Further ABM interceptors have the advantage of intercepting BM at 90 degree angles, so a single radar can *actually* cover a wide arc around it for interception and also protect a wide ellipse around it. Now for effective coverage all one has to do is intersect those ellipses. Also the ABM shield is layered, that is why you have PAD and AAD and THAAD.

Check the above video link out. At the end, they have a nice radar plot, only if it can be captured and enhanced.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 10 Mar 2009 07:35

Great video Disha, first time we are seeing a full video, from launch to hit!

From the video, the interceptor has a boost phase (1st stage Liquid fuel), followed by a 'coast phase' and then the solid fuel second phase ignites just prior to interception.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Mar 2009 07:45

awesome.. till the stage separation, wow! lean burn low IR signature ABM. after that we could only see the fumes only during the separation, few seconds, later again back to lean burn to interception.

superb!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Mar 2009 07:56

Looks like a DRDO presentation. Can someone link the original. Am sure Arun can do a lot of analysis on that.

Great going.

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 10 Mar 2009 08:08

Cool video. Thanks jaladi, andy and disha for your replies.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 10 Mar 2009 08:33

So why does Dhanush take off in Darkness and the PAD in Daytime at approx 10.53 AM? DRDO is using older Dhanush Video no?

Praveen · Post by **Praveen** » 10 Mar 2009 08:45

Jayram wrote:So why does Dhanush take off in Darkness and the PAD in Daytime at approx 10.53 AM? DRDO is using older Dhanush Video no?

It feels dark due to haze/fog on sea and also due to camera exposure adjusting to bright light in haze conditions.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 10 Mar 2009 08:58

jaladipc wrote: Sounds like yindoos are looking for the bull eye itself.Phase-II might incorporate technologies needed for boost phase interception IMHO.
BTW......wot is the range of PAD and AAD themself?

Jaldip yaar the PAD is exo atmospheric intercept missile which first hit the incoming missile at 48km (2006) AAD is endo atmospheric missile which hit the incoming missile at 15 km (2007) now the news is about hitting at approx 80km