Non-Western Worldview

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Dec 2010 22:06

I am moving the above two posts to the off-topic thread in GDF.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Feb 2011 03:11

I hadn't seen this book earlier.

Review from Telegraph, Kolkata

History of the world in 100 objects

A SUPREME VISION

Mummy of Hornedjitef; porcelain Kakiemon elephants, Japan

A history of the world in 100 objects By Neil MacGregor, Allen Lane, Rs 899

Objects have meanings. To decipher those meanings one needs to place the objects within a particular context. In the modern world, museums are the great storehouses of objects from the past. And of all the great museums in the world, it is difficult to think of another as large and with a collection as wide as the British Museum in the heart of London.

Neil MacGregor is the current director of the British Museum and one could describe this book as his tribute to the outstanding collection that is now in his charge. The book is, however, more than that. It opens up a new way of looking at and studying history through objects. Archaeologists and historians have always read objects and artefacts as evidence to recreate a vanished world. But normally in such endeavours, objects become one set in a series that makes up a corpus of evidence. MacGregor takes two radical steps to depart from this.

The first is suggested by the name of the book itself. He sets out to tell the history of the world based on 100 objects selected from the collection of the British Museum. Second, he concentrates on the objects per se; he tells the history of each one and through this telling are revealed other stories, other connections. This enables him to carry out his project. The outcome is an unparalleled intellectual voyage of discovery.

To accompany MacGregor on this journey, the reader has to abandon some of the cherished notions of history. The conventional “big dates’’ or “big events’’ have no place here. Neither do Cleopatra’s nose nor Bad King John — two figures, who for no fault or credit of their own, have come to be associated with the “Great Man Theory of History’’ — feature in this mode of recreating history. MacGregor says in his very lucid and reflective introduction, “Canonical events — the making of the Roman Empire, the Mongol destruction of Baghdad, the European Renaissance, the Napoleonic wars, the bombing of Hiroshima — are not quite centre stage.’’

The attempt to narrate history through objects opens up the possibility of making history truly global since a history that is based on texts inevitably leaves behind that part of humanity who did not have or did not leave behind texts. “Writing,’’ MacGregor notes, “is one of humanity’s later achievements, and until fairly recently even many literate societies recorded their concerns and aspirations not only in writing but in things.’’ In some instances, this book does bring together text and object but in many cases this is not possible to do as texts do not exist.

Advancements in technology have profoundly altered the way objects can be studied. The author demonstrates this with the help of the mummy of Hornedjitef, going back to 240 BC and found near Luxor in Egypt. This is the mummy of a high-ranking Egyptian priest. The coffin had the Egyptian hieroglyphic script all over it and the decipherment of this revealed information about who Hornedjitef was and something about his religious beliefs. But scientific advances in the last two decades allow access to much more information. It is now possible to know through the CT scan that he was middle-aged and that he had a bad back. It is possible to make a chemical analysis of the coffin and to establish where the wood and the dye came from. This reveals information about Egyptian trade networks. The mummy of a single individual enables access to a wider historical context.

Museums are prime destinations for the intellectually curious. But often, even in the best of museums, like the British Museum, the curiosity is sometimes only whetted and not fully satisfied. The mind hankers for links, for the background, for the history. The best museum-goers often go prepared, having done some reading, and then after the viewing they fill in the gaps. MacGregor’s book makes the task so much easier for the visitor to the great museum in Bloomsbury in London. They get not only a learned commentary on a given object but also a sense of its interconnectedness to other objects, to other countries and other cultures.

It is possible to read this book in two ways. One could read it from beginning to end or one could dip into it and read only selected items. The last method will take away the chronological framework, but is no less rewarding. This book is like an elaborately patterned jewel box. The pattern is significant and educative but so are the individual gems.

One can only remain grateful to Neil MacGregor for inviting us, his readers, on this wonderful journey, which teaches while having fun. The joy never overruns the seriousness; the profundity never undermines the entertainment. At this juncture, when the world has turned its back on its own humanistic heritage, this book reminds us deeply and poignantly of our common human heritage. The objective and the objects are held together in one supreme vision.

RUDRANGSHU MUKHERJEE

damn good review!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Feb 2011 21:54

x-post...
Interesting Tit bits about Indian influence
Travels of Ibn Battuta

As soon as he was settled in Mogadishu, the sultan sent him two small welcoming gifts: a plate of betel leaves and areca nuts, and a vial of Damascus rosewater. The first was the ritual welcoming gift of India, a custom that had spread to East Africa, and the rosewater from Damascus was to rinse his hands—another indication of far-flung commercial contact. The ceremonial meal that followed makes a similar, if more elaborate, point:
They eat rice cooked with ghee, which is served on a large wooden platter. On top they set dishes of kushan. These are relishes, composed of chicken, meat, fish and vegetables. In one dish they serve green bananas in fresh milk, in another yogurt with pickled lemon, bunches of pepper pickled in vinegar and salt, green ginger and mangoes. These are like apples, but with a pit. They are very sweet when ripe, but when immature are acid like lemons; they pickle the unripe mangoes in vinegar. They eat a mouthful of rice, then some of the salted and pickled relishes.

The Indian influence on this meal is obvious, but it has been adapted to local tastes. The rice and pepper would have been imported, but the mangoes were probably now grown locally, as was another Indian fruit, the jammun or jambul (Eugenia jambolana, java plum), which he encountered in Mombasa. Bananas also came to East Africa from India, perhaps as early as the 10th century. Although Ibn Battuta does not mention it, the meal was almost certainly served in Chinese bowls, much prized all along the East African coast. Special niches were built into the walls of dwellings in order to display the finer pieces.

To discourage casual visitors, each person wanting to enter India had to sign a statement in front of a notary swearing that he would remain forever. He also had to bring a substantial gift for the sultan—there were agents at the border who would advance money to travelers for this purpose—in order to demonstrate the seriousness of the immigrant’s intentions; when he presented his gifts in Delhi, the newcomer would receive many times their value in reciprocal gifts from the sultan. This exchange cemented a bond with tacitly understood mutual obligations. Ibn Battuta was advanced money by an Iraqi merchant from Tikrit and bought 30 horses and a camel-load of arrows. These were acceptable gifts for a ruler engaged in enlarging his domains, and Ibn Battuta’s prudent investment was rewarded with the post of chief jurist (qadi) of Delhi at an annual salary of 12,000 dirhams—the revenues of two villages—and a lump-sum sweetener of 12,000 dinars. Overnight, the obscure Moroccan law student became a rich man.Two years later, famine broke out in the sultan’s territories and lasted for seven years, leading to widespread rebellion. Ibn Battuta saw that the Delhi sultanate was unraveling and applied for permission to make the pilgrimage to Makkah, the only politic way of leaving the sultan’s service. At the last minute, the sultan asked him instead to lead 15 Chinese envoys and several shiploads of gifts to the Mongol Yuan emperor Toghon Temur. Ibn Battuta leapt at the chance for a graceful exit from a difficult situation combined with the opportunity to visit a new country.The official delegation set out in the late summer of 1341 for the port of Cambay. It was attacked on the way by Hindu marauders, showing Muhammad Shah’s tenous hold on the countryside. Ibn Battuta was captured, escaped and rejoined his party. In Cambay he found a port whose wealth was based on the export of the finest cotton textiles in India, produced in the villages of Gujarat.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Mar 2011 19:53

Dharma and Ethics Conference 2011
http://www.youtube.com/dharmaandethics

Items will be added to this space over time.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Mar 2011 08:54

Marshall G. S. Hodgson, "Rethinking World History: Essays on Europe, Islam and World History (Studies in Comparative World History)"
Cambridge University Press | ISBN: 0521438446 | May 28, 1993 | 356 pages |

Is the history of the modern world the history of Europe writ large? Or is it possible to situate the history of modernity as a world historical process apart from its origins in Western Europe? In Part One of this posthumous collection of essays, Marshall G.S. Hodgson, a former professor of history at the University of Chicago, challenges adherents of both Eurocentrism and multiculturalism to rethink the place of Europe in world history. He argues that the line that connects Ancient Greeks to the Renaissance to modern times is an optical illusion, and that a global and Asia-centered history can better locate the European experience in the shared histories of humanity. In Part Two of the work Hodgson shifts the focus and in a parallel move seeks to locate the history of Islamic civilization in a world historical framework. Finally, in Part Three he argues that in the end there is but one history--global history--and that all partial or privileged accounts must necessarily be resituated in a world historical context. The book also includes an introduction by the editor, Edmund Burke III, contextualizing Hodgson's work in world history and Islamic history.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 09 Mar 2011 09:08

A similar argument comes to mind every time I hear 'western science' as against global science. Have taken pains, when possible, to highlight it as global science as against just 'western' to my immediate audience. One does tend to hear quite a bit of 'western science' in the technical (and I'm sure, academic, scientific) world.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 09 Mar 2011 09:14

A_Gupta wrote:Dharma and Ethics Conference 2011
http://www.youtube.com/dharmaandethics

Items will be added to this space over time.

Thank you so much for the link. I'm a really big fan of Balu.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 09 Mar 2011 09:56

Nice to see another fan of Balu in BRF. Moi is one among them.

A_Gupta: Does macgupta123 ring a bell?

manju · Post by **manju** » 09 Mar 2011 10:12

RoyG wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:Dharma and Ethics Conference 2011
http://www.youtube.com/dharmaandethics

Items will be added to this space over time.
Thank you so much for the link. I'm a really big fan of Balu.

Interesting, that this conf is happening at Vivekananda Institute of Indian Studies (the venue of this conf is on Mysore ring road close to Infosys), which is one of the academic wings of Swami Vivekananad Youth Movement (SVYM), which was started by my seniors at Mysore Medical Coll. I got invovled with this NGO since my med school days and still active. the mother ngo's site is www.svym.net

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Mar 2011 01:19

X-post by Rony in Book Review thread:

The Passion of the Greeks: Christianity and the Rape of the Hellenes

by Greek author Evaggelos G. Vallianatos

One of the reviews in Amazon

Vallianatos' book addresses a crime of the past that still affects us today, and whose rectification could facilitate a more humanistic future. He reveals the censored history of the conflict between Christianity and ancient Greek culture ("Jerusalem versus Athens") in late antiquity.Though the "conversion" of the Greeks is traditionally presented as peaceful and pious, in fact, it was a bloody and brutal conquest, where Christian monks (and even Goths) were funded by Christian Roman emperors in an attempt at forced assimilation of the Greeks into a Judaeacized Latin Empire. Per Vallianatos, the Greeks resisted Christianity for centuries. In the war against the Greeks, the Christians branded the Greeks as "pagans" and, in the guise of "fighting paganism," defaced or destroyed their temples, academies, sculptures and art, in sum, their culture. Vallianatos makes a convincing case that the "conversion" of the Greeks was, in fact, a conquest and despoliation no less than the later Turkish conquest.

Vallianatos contrasts Hellenic values with Christian values, art and government. The Greeks valued democracy, freedom, piety, and the struggle for the good, the brave, and the beautiful. In sum, they had an appreciation of and enthusiasm for life. Zeus is a good god. The Christians valued austerity, harshness, conformity, dogma, despotism, sin and hell, the exploitation of guilt and fear, intolerance, a hatred for Greek literature, philosophy, and art; a cult of death, with life only "after death." The Jewish/Christian god is a jealous god.

Per Vallianatos, Greece today is still colonized by medieval Christian thinking. Christianity is the state religion in Greece. The clergy is a bureaucratic class, maintained by the taxpayer, who resist the educational and archaeological restoration of ancient Greek culture. He concludes that Christianity must be detached from the government and the educational system, and that much of the Church's extensive landholdings should be confiscated to help finance an overdue Greek Renaissance, by restoring Hellenism to Greece.

There is much to commend in Vallianatos' innovative and controversial book. He is definitely a Greek nationalist with an overt ethnocentric bias. Yet, he challenges current leaders to re-learn the wisdom and tolerance of the ancient Greeks to help deliver us from the disastrous choices, based on monotheistic religious ideologies, that have led to the current crisis in the world today. By urging us to return to the rationalism and tolerance of the ancient Greeks in place of the superstition and intolerance of Christianity, I think Vallianatos has made a valuable contribution to the Science-versus-Religion issue so prominent today.

The Romans defeated the Greeks in ~270BC. I guess they used Christianity to complete the conquest later on. The Romans were always under shadow of Greek intellect.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 10 Mar 2011 03:24

The Greeks were not all about democracy, liberal values etc. In fact such values did not extend to the slaves who in some cases amounted to 90% of the population in some city states. In fact the Athenians were the only ones that seriously experimented with democracy - something that led to execution of Socrates, and not so nice treatment of many others who had played a significant role in enhancing the "democracy". Finally Athenians were crushed by the Spartans who were the final winners in the battle for "cracy" within Greek world - and who were decidedly imperialist, and not really "democratic". It was the remnant of this Sparta dominated Greek world [which collapsed by the extreme use and exploitation of slavery at one end among other factors] which was conquered by the even more imperialist and autocratic Macedonians under Philip [who were again not deemed "Greek" enough culturally by the Spartans and Athenians].

The "Christianization" of Greeks was violent because it took the form of the attempt by Constantine and other succeeding "western emperors" to reconquer "eastern" part of Roman empire.

The best model to understand both Christianity and Islam is that these are movements by which aspirants to power who are not men-of-action and primarily intellectuals not belonging to the elite, form a partnership with similar-ly ambitious members of the fringes of existing elite. Thus marginalized "intellectuals" ally with marginalized "action-men" from elite in a mutually beneficial venture to obtain power. This is always a vicious combination - bringing out all the sadism and hatred of pent up frustrated ambition.

Thus Greek conquest was so bloody because they both the bishops and the "emperors" used to think of any opposition - ideologically, culturally, as obstacles to their totalitarianism. In the process they each changed the other slightly to form the movements that we see now. The memes of such violence and intolerance would be latent within Greek society itself - it would be just about becoming more "Spartan" and "mature Athenian" than "early post-regnal Athenian".

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Mar 2011 04:05

In modern world the Commies have replaced the two Abrahamic groups. Excellent description of modern phenomenon.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 10 Mar 2011 17:22

What has happened in the west is that it was taken over by a totalitarian idealogy, and despite all the surface changes, the memes remain the same.

Communism is newest form of monotheism, evoloving from Judeao-Christian traditions of messianism, good-evil dichotomoy, and a conflict oriented world view.

Monotheism has proved resolutely immutable at its core because this value structure has not changed. Its love of conflict is something that gives it enormous resilience, but the cost is paid by its followers in terms of spiritual desolation and internal frustration.

Communism is a derivative of Judaism and Christianism, Judaism is an adaptation of the Amarna revolution, in which pharoah Akhenaten/Amenhotep 4 revolted against the Egyptian priest class, and setup a parallel monothiestic religion worshipping Sun/Ra.

There are some interesting titillating facts about the Amarna episode which are themselves supportive of our world view of these idealogies.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Mar 2011 03:50

Reading comaparative history of Europe, it wasn't till the fourteenth century, that the West recognised primogeniutre for succession. Till then the earlier king nominated his successor from his sons and got it confirmed under feudal oaths to ensure succession. Some thing like the Caliph was nominated by the predecessor and the shura confirmed it.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 29 Mar 2011 08:00

Hellenism vs Hebraism is a concept that goes back at least as far as Arnold.

Hellenism itself may be only a pretty fantasy of the founding myth of Europe. (Although what the Germaniacs or Celts or Norseman have in common with Greeks is not obvious, other than more extreme lack of melanin). There is some who argue that much of Classical Greece was manufactured in 17th and 18th century Britain and Germany.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Apr 2011 02:10

X-Post...

Rony wrote:Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived by Rob Bell.

A Review in New York Times.

Pastor Stirs Wrath With His Views on Old Questions

A new book by one of the country’s most influential evangelical pastors, challenging traditional Christian views of heaven, hell and eternal damnation, has created an uproar among evangelical leaders, with the most ancient of questions being argued in a biblical hailstorm of Twitter messages and blog posts.

In a book to be published this month, the pastor, Rob Bell, known for his provocative views and appeal among the young, describes as “misguided and toxic” the dogma that “a select few Christians will spend forever in a peaceful, joyous place called heaven, while the rest of humanity spends forever in torment and punishment in hell with no chance for anything better.

One leading evangelical, John Piper of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, wrote, “Farewell Rob Bell.” R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said in a blog post that by suggesting that people who do not embrace Jesus may still be saved, Mr. Bell was at best toying with heresy. He called the promotional video, in which Mr. Bell pointedly asks whether it can be true that Gandhi, a non-Christian, is burning in hell, “the sad equivalent of a theological striptease.”

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 05 Apr 2011 10:48

^ The post above by ramana is giving me new thoughts on why this controversy on Gandhi's sexuality has erupted. Gandhi stands as the tallest leader in the world who, despite not being Christian, put Christian values into practice, and more importantly, without bowing in front of any church or padre. Because of this, he represents a state of morality that Christianity praises but his ethical, spiritual and political freedom from any church also makes him a very dangerous example for Christian masses.

Hence, the move to pull him moral stature down. And if in the process they hurt India and Hinduism, that is just a bonus.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Apr 2011 11:18

abhischekcc wrote:^ The post above by ramana is giving me new thoughts on why this controversy on Gandhi's sexuality has erupted. Gandhi stands as the tallest leader in the world who, despite not being Christian, put Christian values into practice, and more importantly, without bowing in front of any church or padre. Because of this, he represents a state of morality that Christianity praises but his ethical, spiritual and political freedom from any church also makes him a very dangerous example for Christian masses.

Hence, the move to pull him moral stature down. And if in the process they hurt India and Hinduism, that is just a bonus.

Gandhi has been given an image and that image for the western people too migh and reminds them from their religion. They have to rebel against it and also abuse this image. Abusing using gay terms is to reduce in value in terms of Christian morality

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 05 Apr 2011 20:54

^^^ didn't think of it that way. but definitely a viewpoint to be considered. to be denigrated on "gay" terms is an insult in western society and there lot of inhibitions against it. but this could be advantageous to us. if Western sponsored pedestal for Gandhi disappears, it might throw all those ppl who prop Gandhi up, in chaos too. it is possible to use the situation to put more focus on other India independence leaders who are ignored.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Apr 2011 21:15

Gandhi is a Christ figure. He has so many coincidences its not funny.

X-post.. from IF

-----------------

I am reading books on Western Literary criticsm. What I am struck is the many similarities that Mahatma Gandhiji had with Christ like figure. No wonder he resonated with their thinking and had many disciples among Westerners.

Christ figure:
First level - crucified, wound in hands, feet, side and head often portrayed with arms outstretched.
Next level: Self sacrificing, good with children, known to use humble transportation, known to have spent time alone in wilderness (rishi, came to redeem unworthy world, give hope and redemption).
Deeper level: crossed the seas or ocean and gets re-born - MKG re-born twice. Once to England and next to South Africa.

And killed like the Christ Figure.

I once saw an icon of Gandhi made up like Christ in a store in Berkeley.

Example but not the same as I saw:

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 05 Apr 2011 21:22

abhischekcc wrote:^ The post above by ramana is giving me new thoughts on why this controversy on Gandhi's sexuality has erupted. Gandhi stands as the tallest leader in the world who, despite not being Christian, put Christian values into practice, and more importantly, without bowing in front of any church or padre. Because of this, he represents a state of morality that Christianity praises but his ethical, spiritual and political freedom from any church also makes him a very dangerous example for Christian masses.

Isnt this true for Hare Krishna and ISCKON with Krishna as the figurehead as well? Or is there already a parellel attempt on with HAF and yoga as targets?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Apr 2011 21:28

In ISCKON they are trying to appropriate Krishna. Its a transfer of godfhead.

In Gandhi they are transferring the Christ image onto a current figure.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Apr 2011 21:36

Klaus wrote:
Isnt this true for Hare Krishna and ISCKON with Krishna as the figurehead as well? Or is there already a parellel attempt on with HAF and yoga as targets?

Attempts against HAF is by marxist who act as wings of the same western groups. They are Indian marxist in form but they do the work for the western world.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Apr 2011 20:25

Pioneer Book Review of Niall Ferguson's book West and the rest

West isnt the best

West isn’t the Best
April 11, 2011 8:51:32 PM

Civilization: The West and the Rest

Author: Niall Ferguson
Publisher: Allen Lane
Price: Rs 699

Niall Ferguson, through this book, aims to arouse the Western heart and mind. The bias is apparent and yet, it's an irresistible read, says Utpal Kumar

History is a set of lies agreed upon.
— Napoleon Bonaparte

Niall Ferguson’s book, Civilization: The West and the Rest, starts with the premise that Western dominance has been a good thing. Of course, it’s a good thing if you are on the right side of history. What if you are on the wrong side?

In 1992, the West celebrated the quincentenary of Columbus’ first voyage from an “old” world to a “new”. The “discovery” — one wonders how a well-inhabited land like this can be discovered — was one of mankind’s ‘finest hours’, we were, and are still being, told. In reality, it only brought a trail of misery and death for the original inhabitants of America. In 1492, there were about 100 million native Americans — about a fifth of the human race. Within a century, 90 million of them were dead and their world barbarously sacked by the ‘civilised’ Europeans.

So, can Ferguson convince the ancestors of these people that Western dominance was a good thing? Or, Indians, who suffered a series of cataclysmic famines since the Battle of Plassey in 1757; the last being witnessed as late as 1943 when over three million people died of starvation in Bengal — sadly, most of them could have survived but for Winston Churchill’s disdain for ‘beastly’ Indians?

The very name of the book, Civilization, which aims to analyse the reasons that made a small landmass of Europe powerful enough to subjugate two-thirds of the world after 1500 AD, appears biased. It seems, for the author, it’s the West that symbolises civilisation. By the same logic, the others inherently become barbarians! Also, the very parameters of judging a ‘civilisation’ are erroneous. The problem with Ferguson is that he is too much influenced by Eurocentric historians, who criticised ancient America for lacking things that Europe had — plow and wheel, and writing. It never occurred to them that plow and wheel are not of much use without draft animals such as oxen or horses, neither of which existed in America before the arrival of Columbus. Far from appreciating the fact that a civilisation arose despite these ‘basic ingredients’, they took their absence as proof that ancient Americans could not have been ‘civilised’. Also, just because the Europeans couldn’t initially read Maya hieroglyphs, they said these could not be real writing! This shoot-and-scoot historiography exists in India as well. I remember one of the most ‘eminent’ historians scornfully commenting that the Rig Vedic people didn’t use salt. After all, there was no mention of salt in the Rig Veda, he said. The historian, however, chose to ignore the fact that the Rig Veda was not a culinary book. It’s just like expecting a New Testament verse in a Paris Hilton memoir!

When one gets rid of the European lenses, it’s evidently clear that it was barbarism, not civilisation, which destroyed the ‘New World’. The achievements of Europe at that time were technological, not social. It had the best of ships, steel and guns. But it also had wretched socio-economic conditions, making people desperate enough to look for greener pastures beyond the European shores. Spain, in particular, was scarcely touched by the Renaissance; in fact, 700 years of war against the Moors had produced a military culture that had contempt for other ways of life. No wonder, the reconquista of Iberia, which ended in 1492, became the model for the conquista of America.

Ferguson, however, can be excused for being so simplistic in his arguments. He says, he wrote this book largely with his children in mind. “The book is partly designed so that a 17-year-old boy or girl will get a lot of history in a very digestible way, and be able to relate to it,” says he. “I have a sense that my children’s generation is not well served by the way they are taught history. They don’t have the big picture.” Unfortunately, a big picture book can be brazenly one-sided.

The author urges the younger generation in Europe, particularly Britain, to be unapologetic about its imperialist past. For him, it happened for good, as it helped disseminate democracy, education, better healthcare, capitalism, globalisation, etc, across the world. Of course, good things happen with bad ones. But can we start hailing Hitler’s anti-Jewish pogrom just because it helped raise awareness against the cruelties meted out to Jews in Europe for millennia?

The book primarily deals with the question: How did a few small polities of Europe come to dominate the rest of the world? Ferguson says that it happened because the West had six “applications” — what he haughtily calls “killer apps” — which others didn’t have. According to him, the West will continue to dominate till the rest doesn’t “download” these applications.

The first killer app is competition. Here, the author shows how the political structure of western Europe, about 500 years ago, encouraged rivalry both between and within states, while the very gigantic nature of the Ming dynasty led China to rest on its glory.

Then comes the scientific revolution. In this section, Ferguson tells us the story of the Ottoman Empire, and how it, despite having booming trade and commerce, lost its way after failing to conquer Vienna in 1683. What made the difference was the fact that while the West was busy ushering in scientific revolution, the Islamic world denounced the exposure of celestial secrets as blasphemy. At the time when the Western printing press was diffusing knowledge, Turks decided to ban it to assert the sanctity of the pen! But to say that the West was already ahead of the rest when they pursued imperialist policies is to put the cart before the horse. For instance, a look at the 18th century Indian education, particularly in the field of science, proves that it was at par with, if not higher than, the British. It was only when the East India Company occupied the country that it got behind the West scientifically. The blame, therefore, primarily rests with British imperialism, and not the other way round.

The third killer app was the security of private property. To emphasise the point, the author contrasts the prosperity of North America, a property-owning hemisphere, with the underdevelopment of South America. In the process, Ferguson makes a sweeping remark: He asserts that the American Revolution was “all about property”, whereas its prime motivation was the establishment of political liberty.

Medicine was the fourth factor that gave the West an advantage. It even spread the benefits of improved health and life expectancy to colonised peoples, though Ferguson acknowledges that medical research focussed more on diseases affecting the White (malaria, yellow fever) than those afflicting the Black (cholera, sleeping sickness). Considering the millions in the ‘New World’ died from European illnesses — by 1600, about 20 waves of pestilence had swept through the Americas, leaving just one-tenth of the original population alive — the chapter should instead have been titled ‘Pestilence’.

The next “killer app” was the evolution of the consumer society, which provided the demand for the goods supplied by the Industrial Revolution. Finally, according to the author, it was the Protestant work ethics that helped the West accumulate wealth like never before. This, again, is a big picture analysis. After all, the same Protestant ethics don’t explain the recent American profligacy at the expense of Chinese money. And why Catholic Holland was economically better-off than its Protestant avatar later.

Going by his previous works — Empire and Colossus — where the author defended Britain’s colonial past and even urged the US to imitate Victorian Britain, one expected Ferguson to take up the cause of Western imperialism. But unlike his previous books, Civilization seems a work in hurry. How else can one explain a pretentiously serious work like this to go spellbound at the rise of China, and, at the same time, completely ignore the emergence of India? It seems India doesn’t exist for him. The author concludes the book by suggesting that the real threat to the West is not posed by China, Islam or even global warming, but “by our own loss of faith in the civilisation we inherited from our ancestors”.

The book, thus, aims to arouse the Western heart and mind. The bias is apparent. Yet, it’s an irresistible read, thanks to the author’s mastery over the language as well as his efficiency in bombarding the reader with historical anecdotes and economic data.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 11 Apr 2011 20:48

Ferguson, is a typical imperialist. Neshant was the only one who consistently pointed out that he's just an armchair pundit with imperialist fantasies. unfortunately, the followers of "cool" banking harakiri kept badgering him consistently page after page, and he got tired and now haven't seen him on BRF for a while.....if i remember correctly, Somnath was one of those followers of "cool" banking harakiri who kept battering him, including some others.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Apr 2011 22:31

If you wish to engage with Somnath in a discussion, please do so directly, not on BRF. That last sentence was completely unnecessary and will, if not nipped at the bud, result in a to and fro that will waste admin time.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Apr 2011 22:32

What new info did your post add? Was it necessary to throw in Neshsant and somnath's names?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 11 Apr 2011 23:06

The seventh killer app was Christianity. Which encouraged all expropriation of nonbelievers property, cultures and very personages. Odd this did not strike this broad canvass historian as obvious. India and china, especially the former in SE Asia and the latter in Japan brought civilization. But no barbarity.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 12 Apr 2011 01:53

^^^
apologize for the digression from the subject of the thread.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 12 Apr 2011 03:01

Thanks for that gracious approach dude.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 12 Apr 2011 06:30

Sigh. Alright let us take two of the killer apps.

Medicine-Indian medicine and surgery, at the time of Western contact, was far ahead of European qqquackery.
The Indians had some profound medical acumen as evidenced by their use of Datura for its anticholigeric properties in the treatment of obstructive airways diseases. In fact all the anticholinergic inhalation pharmaceuticals can be directly traced to a South Indian observed by a British physician (fortunately no issues of IPR going from the jungle to the civilised nations).

The seminal concept of the rotation flap in plastic surgery was pioneered in India over two thousand years ago as was urolithotomy, cataract couching, biofeedback for autonomic and neuropsychiatric regulation. Ashwagandh was used in psychiatric illness and yielded the first neuroleptic (reserpine).

China has given us artemenisins from their traditional pharmaocpoiea, much needed against drug resistant malaria.

As an aside it might interest you to know that Europeans were eating human skulls for their medicinal properties as late as the latter half of the 19 century.

Ship building and navigation. Both China and India excelled in the construction of ocean going vessels superior in size to anything in contemporary Europe, at the time of contact. Indian navigation techniques is a fascinating field where Indians were on a different plane entirely........There is nothing quite as pathetic as a biased historian but to be an uninformed one is laughable.

The temporal decline of India and China, certainly the former, would suggest a causative agency in a certain pernicious dogma.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Apr 2011 21:38

X-post... I plan to exapnd on Bji's idea of waht makes the US the fittest to come out of Europe in subsequent posts and why there is a hiatus now....

brihaspati wrote:In "Darwinian" sense - cockroaches, rats, mosquitoes - etc were all "fit" - for it simply meant the ability to reproduce viable next generation in large numbers. If we apply it to "nations" need to specify exactly what a "nation" "reproduces"! Many more nations which are copies of itself? Or reproduces itself exactly? So one criteria could be how many more nations or new nations spring up that identify with the parent nation! [Given that most of the world judges its success or failure now by how much it has been able to mimic all aspects of the life/state/gov of USA - USA appears to be the Darwinian-ly "fittest" one ]

Is India "reproducing" itself? Or what it is producing is an offspring from many secret extra-marital affairs? Is it producing many cukoo-offsprings in neighbouring crows nests?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Apr 2011 10:19

An Indian view of world history

http://2ndlook.wordpress.com/2008/07/09 ... l-dacoity/

and

New History

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2011 22:59

X-post...

Suraj wrote:One must also remember that ancient and medieval India was among, relatively, the most prosperous economic entities of their times, and has been either the first or second largest economic entity for essentially all of recorded history, except for the last 2-300 years. The pursuit of mercantilism, trade and unapologetic accumulation of wealth is neither 'adharmic' nor is it an imposed drive that is western in origin.

Civilizational history evolves due to a combination of factors, particularly that of what the surrounding land can provide, and how the available resources are used by the people living there. For example, Arab/Saudi or Mongol history evolved in its particularly predatory manner because of their harsh inhospitable terrain that led them to seek fortune elsewhere. Japanese history is characterized by insularity and a quest for order, uniformity and self-sufficiency because of their island status...

One of the primary reasons our civilizational ethos evolved in a manner that emphasizes self-actualization and personal fulfillment is that our history is not characterized by a quest for basic needs; we have not been compelled as a civilization to constantly seek out our material needs - because we've historically produced plenty.

Ours is a fertile land, that produced enormous material benefits, not just for our consumption, but for us to trade and accumulate enormous amounts of wealth with. However, we haven't necessarily had a history of recording our mercantile and trading activities; perhaps we were so self-satisfied with the favourable terms of trade historically that recording it seemed too vain. However, it helps to see what others thought of us - RahulM mentioned a quote by Pliny about this, and there exists several others recording how trade with India (and China) had been a source of constant loss of material wealth by Arabs and Europeans.

The quest to become a big economy and exporter again is not a mindless aping of the west. Rather, it's merely reacquiring a drive that characterized us historically - a drive that was polished and taken to another level by the west, and one that's now upto us to use our own advantages to outdo them at. Most of our history, except for the recent past, is not characterized by handwringing, beaten wife syndromes or withdrawing into isolation. We took on the world and dealt with them on largely favourable terms.

By all means pursue methods that aren't thoughtlessly wasteful, but let's not pretend we should just be happy and not strive to be rich; that is putting the cart before the horse - for most of history we were happy and developed a culture that didn't go around looting everything around us because we were relatively prosperous and content as a result, compared to the state of the world of those times. Not only did we export spices and fabric, but we were major manufacturers - the US national anthem was written on a ship built by Wadia shipbuilders in Bombay.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 27 Apr 2011 22:13

Gentlemen

http://marcivermeersch.wordpress.com/20 ... an-animal/

“Lion Man”, the oldest statuette with a combination man-animal

“Lion Man”, ‘der Löwenmensch’ in German, is one of the oldest and certainly one of the most remarkable statuettes in human history. It is (calibrated) about 35.000 years old. Because the quality of the art production of neanderthalers never came near of that of Homo sapiens we may suppose that is was made by the first wave of modern people that reached South-Germany.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Apr 2011 22:28

Purusha mruga it is called based on Narasimha avaatar.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 27 Apr 2011 22:30

ramana wrote:Purusha mruga it is called based on Narasimha avaatar.

Yes, Sir. Klaus-ji was talking about time frames for Narashima Avatar on the other thread. Those time scales make a me a little confused I must admit. Wonder if this fits in perfectly?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Apr 2011 22:31

Have you x-posted above posts there to get the right views?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 27 Apr 2011 22:33

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Apr 2011 02:08

X-post...

Atri wrote:
RajeshA wrote:brihaspati garu,

I had today a little shocking revelation.
One hint again from history, rajesh ji..

i recommend you the movie "agora".. the way christians were then, muslims are now.. they burnt the library of alexandria, killed thousands of free thinkers, philosophers and women for heresy and blasphemy. they reproduced vigorously. when roman empire was falling, what was reaction of India and china? peaceful ignorance.

Fall of west (free and secular roman system, however cruel it was) affected the trade from India to go down. people started investing in domestic construction projects to save their wealth instead of colonizing and investing in businesses. i sometimes wonder, did India "allow" the west to fall? could India interfere? apart from providing shelter to fleeing people, what else did indian kings do then? almost close to zilch.

early christian system was more "rewarding" towards basic drives of human being (rather human male) vis-a-vis Aahar (feeding)-Nidra (sleep/inaction/non-productiivity)-Bhay (fear of sky daddy which again is excuse for taking shortcuts)-Maithuna (sex, most important).. Islam is following the pattern. Why was romans hated so much in ME? partially due to their violent occupation of ME along with their visible over indulgence in joys of life, when many "slave" societies were suffering. But with all their drawbacks, Romans were liberal ideologically.

EU is survivor. the power centres and their tendencies in west will survive after constantine like compromise. this will ensure temporary return of dark age and simultaneous rise in vsiible display of India's wealth. but that will be stagnant wealth and not freeflowing one. This is what happened in post Gupta india when West fell to abraham 2.0.. abraham 1.0 was genocidal initially and equally regressive but allowed multiple ideas and interpretations. that freedom was reduced in abraham 2.0.. abraham 3.0 (islam) exceeded its first 2 versions and is getting exceedingly efficient at standardization.

the only difference this time is abraham 3.0 has significant presence in greater India. hence increasing importance is being given towards rise of dharma. Krishna says, dharma is very complex and minute. A truly dhdarmik mind understands the relation between karma-its motivatioin- the larger dharma- an its effect on self, society, nation, civilization, humanty. There is a reason why parashurama is respected and but ravana isn't. But while parashurama is respected, jarasandha is not although essentially the "action (Kriya)" they were indulging in was similar.