Bharat Rakshak

Oh, just sporadic mischief is totally uncalled for, because it just irritates the other party and worsens the issue. An executive action by an elected government is totally different from mob action, or some crazy publicity stunt by some party people.

Right now, I am so pissed off with the arrogant and audacious indifference being exhibited by GoTN, that I would applaud if GoK takes over the damned dam by force.

habal wrote:that's rubbish. My neighbour doesn't have any water source in his property and pleads with me for water from my well and I give him access to the well.

Get real. You inherited a property where your neighbor had the exclusive right to use the stream flowing through it and the right to build and maintain the necessary means of doing it! You ratified that treaty in 1970 and rightfully so.

YOU have no right to the water below the MP dam catchment as of now. That is the legal position and that is what you are trying to undo by other means ..(like sitting in a dharna on the road for eg).

Now the well is in disrepair and needs to be repaired. I explain the situation to the neighbor and he shouts obsceneties at me.

You THINK the well should be repaired, and you got two of your buddies to nod your head to that. The neighbor says, okay, I don't agree with this and has taken you to court!. Now the court will appoint a surveyor to find out the factual position. Before the surveyors even visit or can submit a report

But you already have conspiracy theories in place.
1) The neighbor has a 500 cr warchest to bribe any prospective surveyor!
2) If the court and the surveyor dont agree with me, they are compromised/corrupt/working for the neighbor and throw more tantrums and screen a home made video movie edited on your laptop on how the world will look if the stream flowed from your neighbor's property, into your house and have extended your dharna on the road and collected a crowd!

Sorry, this is probably fine politically and fine melodrama, but this simply wont change anything at all and in fact by pissing off your neighbor, you risk him shutting down the only access road into your land that runs through his property!

Dileep wrote:Oh, just sporadic mischief is totally uncalled for, because it just irritates the other party and worsens the issue. An executive action by an elected government is totally different from mob action, or some crazy publicity stunt by some party people.

Right now, I am so pissed off with the arrogant and audacious indifference being exhibited by GoTN, that I would applaud if GoK takes over the damned dam by force.

Ok. Tactially Brilliant I am afraid. It will get struck down by the court ordering status quo ante in 5 seconds in the absence of any firm legal grounds (for eg a report by a court appointed surveyor and the refusal of TN to act on recommendations in case of an adverse report).

Such a course of action in the old days would have been the Causus Belli of war. .. Chola Nadu and Pandya Nadu attacking Chera Nadu , like or vice versa or some such combination like in the Sangam era (and all speaking Sangam Tamil or Sangam Malayam if you want, Dr Artiste would be tickled) and high falutin "littrachaw" written about the blood and gore some hundred years hence ? . Thank Goodness, I think not. The only way out is the rule of the law, so relax and bear with it. The case will wind it's way through court and something tangible will come out that makes sense (rather than.. NEW DAM, NEW DAM , DAMN IT NEW DAM or I Will HOLD MY BREATH UNTIL I TURN BLUE)!

Would point out that that should read, "...Kerala has not responded since 1986 when proposal was first made to it....". 25+ years now and counting.

TN administrators regret including that 30 year review clause. Not been a happy experience. 23 year review uncertainty. They will fight to the end to keep 999 year clause. In this one case British smarter than SDRE.

http://www.hindu.com/2010/07/22/stories ... 620700.htm

Among the issues are Tamil Nadu's claim of 2.5 thousand million cubic feet (tmcft.) from the Anamalayar river and Kerala's demand for the release of Aliyar water at the Manacadu weir over and above its present share of 7.25 tmcft.

15-km tunnel

Tamil Nadu is also proposing to build a 15-km-long tunnel connecting Nirar with Nallar as an alternative to the 49.2-km-long Contour Canal. As of now, Kerala has not responded to this proposal, says a senior official.

Formally signed on May 29, 1970, the PAP agreement took effect from November 9, 1958, as it was then that an understanding was reached between the States.

The pact also includes agreements between the two States on July 4, 1960, and May 10, 1969. It provides for a review after 30 years. The present review has been going on since 1988.

Dileep: Save us all the tears. Sure it is your lives on line. Yet, you make it appear this as a battle between KL and TN people. It is still GoTN vs GoKL issue. Any tactic to make it appear between people is mischief mongering trying to fish in trouble waters. Finally, it looks like you are just for the ownership of the dam. All the talks of lives, just to garner sympathy ?

For those making legal arguments on lease term violation, there is this that a Govt can consider.

The most common uses of property taken by eminent domain are for public utilities, highways, and railroads;[citation needed] however, it may also be taken for reasons of public safety, such as in the case of Centralia, Pennsylvania. Some jurisdictions require that the government body offer to purchase the property before resorting to the use of eminent domain.

More specifically for India,

India

The Constitution originally provided for the right to property under Articles 19 and 31. Article 19 guaranteed to all citizens the right to 'acquire, hold and dispose of property'. Article 31 provided that "No person shall be deprived of his property save by authority of law." It also provided that compensation would be paid to a person whose property had been 'taken possession of or acquired' for public purposes. In addition, both the state government as well as the union (federal) government were empowered to enact laws for the "acquisition or requisition of property" (Schedule VII, Entry 42, List III). It is this provision that has been interpreted as being the source of the state's 'eminent domain' powers.[35]

Bade wrote:For those making legal arguments on lease term violation,

Thats for private property.

For instance USA can not eminent domain Colorado water that flows to Mexico despite its sore need.

Theo, are you sure. How are vast tracts of govt land both state owned and central owned given away to govt institutions and at times taken over for public purposes later, like building a highway through the property.

The colorado river flows to mexico, it is not a diversion of waters based on a treaty or agreement.

Bade wrote:Theo, are you sure. How are vast tracts of govt land both state owned and central owned given away to govt institutions and at times taken over for public purposes later, like building a highway through the property.

The colorado river flows to mexico, it is not a diversion of waters based on a treaty or agreement.

That is one government agency transfering land to another. Often puchased. The Agriculture College in Nanadanam is being moved for the the Chennai metro. State paid compensation and paid for a new building outside town. Did not pay market rate for land. Also military often refuses to part with land. The Bangalore metro ran into all kinds of problem IIRC.

WRT Colorado, keep in mind 30% of the water goes to California though not a meter of river flows through it, only a shared border. Water is transfered to LA basin and San Diego. None of the water comes from California desert land yet pre-existing use protects California, even internationally.

WRT Colorado, keep in mind 30% of the water goes to California though not a meter of river flows through it, only a shared border. Water is transfered to LA basin and San Diego. None of the water comes from California desert land yet pre-existing use protects California, even internationally.

Indeed. That kind of thing is globally settled law. Any court will uphold it. The problem in India is that with the weak rule of law and the lack of sanctity to any contract , politicking and agit-prop are seen as the way out of actual legal responsibilities and hoping to change things defacto by such acts even if not de jure (like in Kaveri, where the tribunal order could never be implemented).

Think of this. If my grand father sold hundred acres of land to yours some 50 years ago when he had no children and now I have 10 children and need more land so I go back to the neighbor and say "Did my grandpa ask me before selling the land 100 years ago, when I wasn't even born?. Now I have 10 children and want 80% of the land back!". It will be laughed out of any serious court .

Think of this. If my grand father sold hundred acres of land to yours some 50 years ago when he had no children and now I have 10 children and need more land so I go back to the neighbor and say "Did my grandpa ask me before selling the land 100 years ago, when I wasn't even born?. Now I have 10 children and want 80% of the land back!". It will be laughed out of any serious court .

there is no sale of anything here. Dam is owned by Kerala, water is owned by Kerala and the land on which both exist are also owned by Kerala. And as for comparison with US, India is for all manner and purpose far far more democratic than present-day US in key policy making sphere. People's opinion still matters in India.

habal wrote:there is no sale of anything here.

A lease is just as legal as a sale and will have to be enforced by the rule of the law, just as you would in case of a sale!

Dam is owned by Kerala, water is owned by Kerala and the land on which both exist are also owned by Kerala.

No, No (atleast the water above MP catchment) and Yes. If you think otherwise, argue that in court.

The bulk of the reason I suspect why Kerala is acting so antsy and is getting in to very comical antics in a matter that is subjudice is that they are pretty certain that they are going to lose the case in court.

There is no way in hell that TN will negotiate in a matter that is subjudice and without at least seeing what the court decides. So all this antics of trying to get TN to come and talk on this is just a waste of time , though quite entertaining I must say.

And as for comparison with US, India is for all manner and purpose far far more democratic than present-day US in key policy making sphere. People's opinion still matters in India.

Right.. It is the old saying that if there is any country with the name "Democratic" in it, you can bet your last penny that it is nothing but that, but actually a Totalitarian Commie State (eg. Democratic People's Republic of Korea , or the German Democratic Republic ).

And really! People in India are not EVEN allowed to speak when it gets inconvenient. There is absolute free speech in the US. Don't think so ? Turn on the TV and listen to Kapil Sibal and his blather on "self regulation" and "pre posting screening" of the internet by the "intermediaries" (ie, Google, FB, Yahoo, Microsoft should be as pliant, corrupt, bought out and servile to the GOI and should carry only the canned propaganda of the Govt and it's "approved" underlings).

So give it a rest. Comrade Atchu can give out such canned speeches and his captive crowd and the JNU ding dongs will applaud, but will draw mirth everywhere else.

Except in this case the grandpa was an outsider, the Brits. By that token most of the maharajahs had ceased control of their lands to the Brits, so how legal is it for native Indians to throw the Brits out. I am pretty sure the legal means can bring back the British Raj too.

The legal argument is much weaker argument to make than the moral argument on denying excess unused water to anyone.

Holding on to the lease argument is like what commies do in the choked city of Kolkata, where generation after generation living on the same premises on paltry rental value and claiming ownership based on long term use. Yes, it is legal too. Very commie JNU inspired line of argument from someone who despises commies so much. This thread is another piskology session if one watches from the sidelines.

SwamyG wrote:Dileep: Save us all the tears. Sure it is your lives on line. Yet, you make it appear this as a battle between KL and TN people. It is still GoTN vs GoKL issue. Any tactic to make it appear between people is mischief mongering trying to fish in trouble waters.

Swamy, it is the PEOPLE who show up to protest. It is the PEOPLE who beat up the shop owners. It is PEOPLE who fight it out on cyberspace. You and I are PEOPLE. No sir. It is NOT a GoK vs GoTN problem anymore. It is not the congresses and munnetra kazhagams anymore.

Finally, it looks like you are just for the ownership of the dam. All the talks of lives, just to garner sympathy ?

Of course!! And the evil Indians are going to overrun the land of pure any time.

I told many times, and will tell many times more, that the ownership is NOT an issue. In fact the latest from GoK (which I vehemently oppose) is to build a dry back-up dam, and leave the old dam, the agreement, the Tamil pride, the bribes, everything intact.

AFTER THAT, would you still say it is about the agreement?

Maybe you will. The Evil Indians will anyway over run the land of pure!!

The Executive Magistrate (the district collector in this case) has the powers to take over the structure and modify it in such a way to pre-empt disaster. Of course, he can be pulled into legal hassles post facto.

I would have done it and gone to jail if needed.

I am wondering what could happen to TN as country as proposed by DK junkies with so much of dependence on all the adjoining states for as basic as water.

Bade wrote:By that token most of the maharajahs had ceased control of their lands to the Brits, so how legal is it for native Indians to throw the Brits out.

Independence was a legal democratic transfer of power. People voted on it. Legal instrument was signed by the British to create India & Pakistan.

I would point out every river in India has been partitioned this way. From the Cauvery to Krishna to Narmada and recently Godavari. States got very specific allocations. In the case of Krishna, Chennai got 15 TMC allocated and written into the accord. These are permanent accords. No 999 clause. By that measure TN should get permanent accord as well.

Jayalalitha had run a full page advertisement in todays papers



I don't have time to refute each of the points right now, but I would like to expose two STINKING ROTTEN LIES in that letter.

1. The human settlements in the area are much above the reach of the flood waters.

Google earth has hi-res images of the area. Check it out yourself!! It has terrain info as well, clearly showing how elevated the buildings are from the river bed.

2. Since water has not been stored above 136 for a long time, the water spread area has been encroached upon by land grabbers in Kerala who has built resorts and other buildings on the land leased to Tamil Nadu.

Once again, I challenge anyone to show where those encroachments are on the satellite imagery!! The place is part of the tiger reserve, and virtually inaccessible, except by boat from thekkady. If this argument isn't lahori logic, I don't know what is!!

Let me spell it out. Pee Yay Key Ai En Yi Ess Ess. PAKINESS!!

People "voted" as in agit-prop with civil disobedience before any legal instrument was signed, no ? So wasn't the transfer of lands from the local kings to East India Company and later for rule under the British empire a "legal" transfer too. Two "legal" transfers with opposite effects.

In future if people of Kerala decide to abrogate the 999 year treaty, it remains simply their democratic right. Legal methods are just a means to enforce the wishes of the majority in a democracy, never the other way around.

You are misreading how India was ruled. The leaders of Independence specifically wanted a legal transfer. Rule of law was vital to them.

Bade wrote:Legal methods are just a means to enforce the wishes of the majority in a democracy, never the other way around.

Change the contract legally. This is a Judicial item now. There are also democratic duties which everyone in India ignores while they want the rights.

As Vina has said, Kerala government does not know how to do this without TN signature. A lot would have to be changed to make a contract unilaterally unenforceable. Single point exceptions are hard legally as it Always creates a precedent. Butchering of constitution, etc. Not dissimilar to how GOI does not know how to legally change the Indus Water Treaty which was also based on pre-existing use without TSP signature.

Denying water to TSP would find 99% democratic support in India.
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Dileep,

I think she is talking of land near Kumily town which at least partially may actually be inside TN. I remember a time way back visiting Kumily town and MullaPeriyar water created lagoons right in the center of town by the old bus stand. Hard to believe now but used to be true. This land has been much encroached recently.

The reality here is that it is inter-state situation and not inter-country one, so denying water rights to water starved TN will not fly much even in Kerala as of now, no one can tell the future if monsoons change their patterns and usage levels increase dramatically. There are already drinking water shortages in adjoining areas of Kochi and tankers provided.

Besides as has been pointed out earlier by many including you, that there exists now a symbiotic relationship with those 4 districts, with produce being sold almost exclusively in Kerala markets. This is why I feel all this "will not get a drop of water" just whipping up emotions in TN and nothing else. Kerala is not going to embark on massive farms for its needs, not that it has even the lands to do it, considering the price of land. It is not economical to farm anything other than rubber is what I heard while there as recently as last week. Even the hired driver was trying to sell me a rubber estate, when he learned about where I work.

I have a out of box idea to solve this for good. The four districts can join the state of Kerala and then a GoTN middleman is not needed and all water issues can be all dealt with by GoKL as an internal problem. The 4 districts get access to water for eternity (better than a 999 yr lease) which they lack and KL gets more arable flat land which it lacks and farmers too.

Dileep saare: You are right people protest, because the emotions are whipped by the political-goonda-business trio to suit their needs. The trio needs people's support, and they ride on their backs.

Seriously, how many aam admi in Kerala or TN care about who owns the dam or water ityadi? It is the elite, politicians, visionaries, statesmen from both these states that ponder on such issues. The average Dileep or Swamy in both states want safety, security and water for their needs.

Personally I don't care who owns or what happens to the lease. I care about safety & stability of human beings - be it Kerala or TN. Next water needs for the people who share the river. One set of people cannot be just giving, while the other set of people keep deriving benefits. The land is a shared resource, people better have sense that we all are in this planet for together, and we have to take care of each other.

Once the trio uses the people, they throw them like used drumstick after enjoying the juicier pulp.

My interest in this is focused towards the machinations of the trio. How much of this is real? How much is this manufactured? To be honest, I trust the simple aam admi more than the trio who have superficial - monetary and power - interests.

No mallu and tamil are ==; nobody is purer or eviler. They are as evil and pure as each other. Tamil people might be proud when it comes to their literature and antiquity - real, perceived or alleged. But let that not get in the way solving important river issues.

If TN spends money to increase the safety of the dam; keeping all the agreements in place; would that be satisfactory to you?

If this is purely orchestrated by the business folks, to get in some money; the one way to stop all this tamasha is for TN to find out the political-business nexus spearheading this current agitation; and strike a deal. Give them some business contracts to shore up the dam's safety. But then it is blackmail, no?

Bade wrote:I have a out of box idea to solve this for good. The four districts can join the state of Kerala and then a GoTN middleman is not needed and all water issues can be all dealt with by GoKL as an internal problem. The 4 districts get access to water for eternity (better than a 999 yr lease) which they lack and KL gets more arable flat land which it lacks and farmers too.

Or they could split off and form their own state along with Travancore. Would be quite popular.

And it is true TN has the land while Kerala has the water. Keralites have settled areas in TN where Kerala water flows. Bodi area is at least 40% Mallu speaking now, Coimbatore w/ Siruvani water is 30% Mallu, etc. We have no problem with Keralites settling in TN. Just bring some water with you.

---------------------------------------------------------------

While we are at it don't mix pre-existing use with new allocation as at Chennai.

TSP pays Zero paisa to GOI for water itself for instance. If Kerala wants a pre-existing use based treaty instead of lease be prepared for Zero income.

But Hnair and Dileep has claimed Travancore writ ran all the way to the borders of Trichur district. Periyar tributaries also flow there. And this is already 70% of Kerala. So it is still the same, no ? And I do not think Malabar part of Kerala wants to go back to the Madras Presidency, though from current migration patterns they may want to join with KA up north with more opportunities as of now.

Most of history Travancore state ended at Neyyar. This is where core people live.

Malabar should join Coorg state along with Wayanad and Gudalur. That is the natural linkage.

But Travancore itself rose out of the ruins of the outer periphery of the middle Kerala kingdoms from less than a thousand years ago. So Travancore has no unique claims to be outside of Keralaputras culturally and otherwise.

More pertinent that Periyar flow is not limited to old Travancore boundaries. So water use and related issues cannot be settled amicably with a subset of existing boundaries of Kerala.

If TN needs water due to nature's imposition of its rules, the Keralaputras can claim the same for getting land locked. So we need land in exchange for water.

Theo_Fidel wrote:There are also democratic duties which everyone in India ignores while they want the rights.

That is the hallmark of any people in any democracy. Unfortunately. Sorry to bring in the word 'dharma' but that is one essence of dharma, striking a balance between Rights and Duties. In reality, during touch times it takes a lot of discipline and cultural/societal backing to keep performing the Duties. When the going is good, it is easier to perform Duties. People will break laws and neglect duties, when the system is geared against them and their aspirations.

It is easy to say from a judicial point of view, that current population should accept an agreement that was struck which looks unreasonable now. Reducing the complexity by giving simple and personal examples of grand-father grand-kids ityadi will not help. Citing Alaska or Louisiana purchase is easier, the Russian or French did not have emotional stake in those lands. It was not their in the first place. It is not the case of people living in Kerala or TN; they have lived in those lands for time immemorial.

Sure it is a Judicial nightmare to address and solve such legal problems. Any solution which is not dharmic (unsustainable) will cause more takleef to people.

At the minimum TN should put safety of the people first.

Finally "I think" I learnt something about this dispute as so many pages going too quickly on this thread.

I read this here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullaperiyar_Dam as it is tooo much to read and grasp last five pages.

In 2000 Frontline one author stated thus: "For every argument raised by Tamil Nadu in support of its claims, there is counter-argument in Kerala that appears equally plausible. Yet, each time the controversy gets embroiled in extraneous issues, two things stand out: One is Kerala's refusal to acknowledge the genuine need of the farmers in the otherwise drought-prone regions of Tamil Nadu for the waters of the Mullaperiyar; the other is Tamil Nadu's refusal to see that it cannot rely on or continue to expect more and more from the resources of another State to satisfy its own requirements to the detriment of the other State. A solution perhaps lies in acknowledging the two truths, but neither government can afford the political repercussions of such a confession

Tamil Nadu has insisted on raising the water level in the dam to 142 feet, pointing out crop failures. One estimate states that "the crop losses to Tamil Nadu, because of the reduction in the height of the dam, between 1980 and 2005 is a whopping 40,000 crores. In the process the farmers of the erstwhile rain shadow areas in Tamil Nadu who had started a thrice yearly cropping pattern had to go back to the bi-annual cropping."

Are the above two quotes from the article contradict the description of the problem. How can one call a region as drought prone when one can have at the least two crops?

No rain from November to next October can cause 2 crops and drought in same year. Happens all the time.

One is Kerala's refusal to acknowledge the genuine need of the farmers in the otherwise drought-prone regions of Tamil Nadu for the waters of the Mullaperiyar

This statement is contradictory to all what we have heard here or elsewhere. But I notice Theo has side-stepped this. Will let Dileep address this one, if the allegation is entirely true.

From the wiki link above,

Tamil Nadu has insisted on raising the water level in the dam to 142 feet, pointing out crop failures. One estimate states that "the crop losses to Tamil Nadu, because of the reduction in the height of the dam, between 1980 and 2005 is a whopping INR 40,000 crores. In the process the farmers of the erstwhile rain shadow areas in Tamil Nadu who had started a thrice yearly cropping pattern had to go back to the bi-annual cropping." [27]

The Kerala Government maintains that this is not true. During the year 1979–80 the gross area cultivated in Periyar command area was 171,307 acres (693.25 km2). After the lowering of the level to 136 ft (41 m), the gross irrigated area increased and in 1994–95 it reached 229,718 acres (929.64 km2).[28] The Tamil Nadu government had increased its withdrawal from the reservoir, with additional facilities to cater to the increased demand from newly irrigated areas.[citation needed]

So denial of water is clearly contradictory to the fact stated above, when area irrigated has since increased by 30% or more.

I agree, Kerala's main objective is dam safety and not the damn water denial that is politically motivated. They should ensure dam safety considering Earth quake above 6 Richter. Whatever that takes to straighten and strengthen the dam must be done.

Rest is all politics that I detest.

Kerala-TN could get this done bilaterally without issues.. Their state and language issue overrides basic human approach to problems. When states in India has problems, they should ignore the boundaries, and jointly consider issues technically and see where the problem lies. The solution should address all.

Share the water and resources equally. Go by demographics and usage., plus ensure protection of environment that takes precedent over language, boundaries and state and party paltry politics.

It would take only few seconds to destroy the dam by nature.. If there are any human brains left in both these states, they should highly consider nature's aspects.

Bade wrote: After the lowering of the level to 136 ft (41 m), the gross irrigated area increased and in 1994–95 it reached 229,718 acres (929.64 km2).[28] The Tamil Nadu government had increased its withdrawal from the reservoir, with additional facilities to cater to the increased demand from newly irrigated areas.[citation needed]

This is not strictly true. Yes irrigated area has increased at least 2 1/2 times since independence but the water withdrawal has not increased by that much. Even before independence 70%-80% of water was withdrawn every year. Now it approaches 90%. Crops have changed to horticultural and orchard types that require less irrigation and irrigation techniques have improved. Canals have been lined and seepage is much reduced. Once drip irrigation, which is sweeping the region, is fully deployed undoubtedly irrigated area will increase at least 3 times more. Though this is 30 years in future.

The reason for this is simple. Population in TN and Kerala is about 5 times what it was @ independence. Someone needs to feed this population.

I liked the increase in population and irrigation. But I don't like the attitude of considering the profits and goods for particular zonal benefits. Share everything!

SwamyG wrote: Seriously, how many aam admi in Kerala or TN care about who owns the dam or water ityadi? It is the elite, politicians, visionaries, statesmen from both these states that ponder on such issues. The average Dileep or Swamy in both states want safety, security and water for their needs.

We in KL don't care who owns the dam or water. We care about safety. People in TN care about getting water.

Personally I don't care who owns or what happens to the lease. I care about safety & stability of human beings - be it Kerala or TN. Next water needs for the people who share the river. One set of people cannot be just giving, while the other set of people keep deriving benefits. The land is a shared resource, people better have sense that we all are in this planet for together, and we have to take care of each other.

Once the trio uses the people, they throw them like used drumstick after enjoying the juicier pulp.

All rhetoric, and you would still come back and say it is all about the 999.

My interest in this is focused towards the machinations of the trio. How much of this is real? How much is this manufactured? To be honest, I trust the simple aam admi more than the trio who have superficial - monetary and power - interests.

Now, that is a real question, which I would honestly answer.

1. Statements in KL like "Five districts washed away" "50ft water at Kochi" etc are grossly inflated.
2. Statements in TN like "Kerala refuses water" "Dam is safe onlee" are lies.

The following are the realities.

1. The dam is really weak. It is visible. It is also proven by the fact that TN blocks every attempt of any inspection. IF everything was hunky dory, they could have just invited the media and shown.

2. When it breaks, and Idukki system holds the flow, around 15,000 people will be directly displaced, hundreds, if not thousands will be killed. One town will be washed away, along with a major highway.

3. If Cheruthoni dam of the Idukki system breaks, that will also bream three other dams beneath it, lay waste the entire eastern region of Ernakulam district and flood Kochi by a few feet. It will also take out the bridges linking Kochi to the north.

4. If Kulamavu dam of Idukki system breaks, towns of Thodupuzha, Muvattupuzha and the southeastern parts of Ernakulam district will be flooded. Southern parts of Kochi, will be lightly flooded

TN will lose only if the dam breaks. There is nothing to lose if a new dam is built, except H&D.

No mallu and tamil are ==; nobody is purer or eviler. They are as evil and pure as each other. Tamil people might be proud when it comes to their literature and antiquity - real, perceived or alleged. But let that not get in the way solving important river issues.

Unfortunately, it does. It is always taken for granted that "Tamils will respond emotionally", and it has become a weapon now, just like Pakistan uses its Pakiness as an effective tool of diplomacy.

If TN spends money to increase the safety of the dam; keeping all the agreements in place; would that be satisfactory to you?

Absolutely. But it must be 'convincingly safe'. The primary issue stems from the fact that TN refuses any kind of inspection of the dam. They refused inspection by Navy Divers. They refused seepage estimation by BARC. They even refused a visit by the legislative committee of KL.

That behaviour GUARANTEES that the daal is kaala!!

TN can instantly defuse the issue by making a 'confidence building measure' such as a full safety audit by KL. If the dam is indeed safe,why not? What do they got to hide?

They can also instantly diffuse the issue by offering to underwrite any damage at a generous level, like Rs 1Cr for lives and Rs 1 Cr for acre of land lost. Absolutely no money spent on that promise!! All it takes is a document signed by the Governor of TN!!

If this is purely orchestrated by the business folks, to get in some money; the one way to stop all this tamasha is for TN to find out the political-business nexus spearheading this current agitation; and strike a deal. Give them some business contracts to shore up the dam's safety. But then it is blackmail, no?

The dam is visibly in a terrible condition. You sure can apply makeup to Amma, shoot images in careful lighting and photoshop the result. Still, she won't look Amala Paul.

I say again. The ONLY solution is to make it convincingly safe.

Dileep

much as I hate to step into this thread the more you use the word Paki you are only going to harden the position of the TN folks. I am sure you can make your point without having to call them Paki??

vina wrote:
Think of this. If my grand father sold hundred acres of land to yours some 50 years ago when he had no children and now I have 10 children and need more land so I go back to the neighbor and say "Did my grandpa ask me before selling the land 100 years ago, when I wasn't even born?. Now I have 10 children and want 80% of the land back!". It will be laughed out of any serious court .

vina ji,

OT but....

Are not courts in Bangalore entertaining such a position taken by heirs?

Many such cases are simply being settled out of court by disgusted buyers who are being blackmailed by the heirs.

Just a tidbit I gathered from a CWC official this weekend.

"This Mullaiperiyar dam issue not an engineering or technical issue anymore. It's gone political and all I can do is stay out of it. Common sense and logic have gone out of the window long time back, it's all political shenanigans and deals made on the fear psychosis and hysteria whipped up by vested interests"

http://mowr.gov.in/index3.asp?subsublin ... &sslid=733

A good summary with time lines, of the issue so far. From Point #22-#24 in that, looks like the Kerala govt. wants a new dam *and* a re-negotiation of the agreement. I couldn't find any link between cost share for the new Dam and the water share as indicated by Dileep.

Surya wrote:Dileep
much as I hate to step into this thread the more you use the word Paki you are only going to harden the position of the TN folks. I am sure you can make your point without having to call them Paki??

Surya, it really doesn't matter, because whether I am calling out or not, there is Pakiness, and that is a very hard position on its own.

I mean, what did we achieve with the real pakis with their real pakiness after all these years?

chandrasekaran wrote:http://mowr.gov.in/index3.asp?subsublin ... &sslid=733

A good summary with time lines, of the issue so far. From Point #22-#24 in that, looks like the Kerala govt. wants a new dam *and* a re-negotiation of the agreement. I couldn't find any link between cost share for the new Dam and the water share as indicated by Dileep.

The Kerala CM has made a number of statements that unequivocally stated that the cost of the dam will be born by us, and the usual amount of water, ie same amount of water that had been taken in the past, will be given to TN. There is enough evidence to that effect in the media coverage.

Yes, a new agreement is needed because we pay for the new dam.