Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 18 Jul 2009 20:58

Kasab, in his own words. Video of Mumbai terror

http://link.brightcove.com/services/pla ... 7874456001

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jul 2009 21:09

Nothing can go wrong in Pakistan till Army & ISI are present - Musharraf saheb.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 18 Jul 2009 21:36

Gerard wrote:Dangerous liaison
Tariq Ali’s new book explores the relationship between Pakistan’s ruling elite and U.S. imperial power.

Unfortunately Tariq Ali has been unwilling to deeply explore the nationality question in this work.

Why is popular solidarity in Pakistan so hard to find outside the Islamic context?

Tariq Ali wants people to believe that social democracy has failed to take root for 60+ years solely because of external powers,
when the fundamental problem is that Pakistan is a state without a coherent nation.

That is the source of the socio-economic strength of the Pakistani elite's position, and the the political strength of the military complex. External relationships have buttressed those internal realities, rather than created them.

The caliphate faced exactly the same problems - given tribal, ethno-linguistic and setarian differences, the only guarantee of survival of a unitary state was good governance and agreed procedures for the transfer of power (which Mohammed never had a word to say about). Without either of those the result is exploitation and endless conflict.

Without responsible elites, there's no good governance, and without good governance there's no chance for popular national solidarity to arise to put a check on the elites. Either the Pakistani state develops a conscience, devolves power, or the coherent communities within regions will take power for themselves.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jul 2009 21:54

Johann wrote:
Gerard wrote:Dangerous liaison
Unfortunately Tariq Ali has been unwilling to deeply explore the nationality question in this work.

Why is popular solidarity in Pakistan so hard to find outside the Islamic context?

Johann, since “national identity” is derived from such things as culture, heritage, history, experiences etc. and since the artificial land of Pakistan had none of these in originality as it inherited all these from enemy Bharat, the country had nothing to speak of for its own identity. Modern political commentators are unanimous that ‘nationalism’ is composed of two components: emotional and political. Politically, it is the culmination of a historical process that established the nationality. In India, the whole country was caught in the frenzy of independence and hundreds of thousands of leaders, common men and women sacrificed themselves to gain independence. While the concept of ‘Bharat’ had been well entrenched for thousands of years, it was truly this political struggle that unified the nation. This struggle was totally absent in Pakistan as its leaders simply indulged in political machinations to secure a land for themselves. It is simply not enough that there is a historical process to establish nationality, but there should also be a well grounded theory and idealism behind such a struggle. It came naturally to the Indian movement of independence while for the Pakistanis it was mostly fabricated.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Jul 2009 22:22

Not to mention the fact that the US and UK often turned a blind eye to the atrocities committed by paki dictators and didn't push them towards a more inclusive agenda( whether having a more federal setup or education or free judiciary/democratic institutions etc). They even supported unpopular rulers for their own ends as long as the rulers did what they asked them to do. Now, the ordinary people believe that everything happening is due to western powers, which is not too far from the truth actually.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 18 Jul 2009 23:06

When the All India Muslim League dissolved as a coherent political force following Jinnah's death, it was the Pakistan Army that essentially inherited the role as the national driving force.

For all of Pakistan's failures and disasters the PA has largely remained prestigious and popular in Pakjab despite the eventual unpopularity of individual military dictators like Ayub Khan or Zia or Musharraf.

Pakistan will continue on the same course until Pakjab's love affair with the PA ends.

That is where things are heading - PA's tactical brilliance isnt just bad for Pakistan as a whole, it is fundamentally bad for the PA's most important asset, its power and prestige in the Punjab.

The PA's never-ending double game with the Taliban means oscillating between inaction and overreaction, and it is fundamentally eroding its prestige and legitimacy within Pakistan, especially when combined with US airstrikes and economic pressures.

This is the institutional choice of the PA officer corps, not the Americans or anyone else. It is also the choice of the Pakjabi people to vest their hopes, their pride and their trust in the PA, not the choice of the Americans or anyone else.

Tariq Ali ignores these decisive local realities in favour of the arguments he needs for his real passion, the anti-globalisation, anti-Pax Americana cause. Pakistan's elites have always had the power of choice, but it is simpler to portray them as puppets.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jul 2009 23:27

Johann wrote:
When the All India Muslim League dissolved as a coherent political force following Jinnah's death, it was the Pakistan Army that essentially inherited the role as the national driving force.
They were essentially evolved into a uniformed political party who swept all elections without the benefit of a ballot

For all of Pakistan's failures and disasters the PA has largely remained prestigious and popular in Pakjab despite the eventual unpopularity of individual military dictators like Ayub Khan or Zia or Musharraf.

The great achievement of the PA is that they skillfully and successfully redirected all unfavorable attention that they received towards anger against India. Its very easy for them to engineer a border incident, react patriotically and blame India for all troubles.

Just like that fool gilani is now blaming India for their self created and brutal repression of the balochis to divert attention from their own failures.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Jul 2009 23:38

Musharraf: India, Pakistan were close to agreement on 3 issues

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Jul 2009 23:39

Johann wrote: Tariq Ali ignores these decisive local realities in favour of the arguments he needs for his real passion, the anti-globalisation, anti-Pax Americana cause. Pakistan's elites have always had the power of choice, but it is simpler to portray them as puppets.

For the RAPEs, as long their interest isn't at stake, they are comfortable with the PA's role. And the PA has ensured that it has the loyalty of the elites. And the US/UK deal with the PA directly knowing fully well that it is the PA which is in control, even under the so called "democratic governments". If the US/UK had isolated the PA, then the people would have slowly turned against them. As seen before 9/11, pakistan was on the verge of collapse and 9/11 was a god send. The US/UK was back to propping up musharraf and as long as the money flowed, things were good. Even now, every US leader who visits TSP also meets Kayani. Is there a bigger duplicity then this?

When the US can conviniently put Burma in the doghouse, why can't it do the same to the paki army? Of course, it is easier to always quote national interest and wiggle out of its actions.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Jul 2009 23:43

Pakistan’s queries an endless exercise: Chidambaram

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 19 Jul 2009 00:27

shravan wrote: http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-07-13-voa10.cfm
Officials in Pakistan say at least nine people, including seven children, were killed in an explosion at the home of a Muslim cleric in eastern Punjab province.

http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=148684

SLAMABAD: The Intelligence Agencies have recovered 47 CDs from the site of Mian Channu bomb blast.

According to sources, the recovered CDs contained information about aerial attacks

and manufacturing of bombs and weapons.

The videos of mistreatment of Muslims at Guantanamo-Bay have also been found.

Sources told that the main accused Master Riaz had link with Baiut Ullah Mehsud, Supreme Commander Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 19 Jul 2009 00:42

SSridhar wrote:Nothing can go wrong in Pakistan till Army & ISI are present - Musharraf saheb.

What else is left except disintegration,.
The rogue corps were ready to split the bakiland , had they not received $s on time ,.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 Jul 2009 00:47

Gerard wrote:Musharraf: India, Pakistan were close to agreement on 3 issues

Excellent, timely and relevant news ! This piece of news is not well known, but is very true. In fact, more than a month back, I wrote a very informed article on this.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Jul 2009 02:11

I just saw Black & White (2008) with Anil Kapoor, made by Subhash Ghai.

Jabardast Film! Watch it!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Jul 2009 03:18

Gerard wrote:Musharraf: India, Pakistan were close to agreement on 3 issues

I am very surprised that India even entertained his ideas. The one on Kashmir is worthless.

As for Kashmir, Mr. Musharraf said the idea in Pakistan was to make the Line of Control irrelevant. “...[T]he problem was the Line of Control because there was a feeling that the Indian side wanted the Line of Control to be made permanent. On our side, we thought that it is a dispute, therefore a dispute cannot be a solution. So… the idea was to make the Line of Control irrelevant,” he said.

These guys are retarded at best.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 Jul 2009 03:33

NRao wrote:
Gerard wrote:Musharraf: India, Pakistan were close to agreement on 3 issues
I am very surprised that India even entertained his ideas. The one on Kashmir is worthless.

As for Kashmir, Mr. Musharraf said the idea in Pakistan was to make the Line of Control irrelevant. “...[T]he problem was the Line of Control because there was a feeling that the Indian side wanted the Line of Control to be made permanent. On our side, we thought that it is a dispute, therefore a dispute cannot be a solution. So… the idea was to make the Line of Control irrelevant,” he said.
These guys are retarded at best.

NRao-saar

This article is totally BS.

Everytime some tinpot in Pakistan gets deposed, you get an article "Cashmere 90% close to being 400% solved unfortunately Mr Tinpot was not in power for 3 more weeks". Mostly the "solution" consists of India giving up a huge swath of territory after realizing how 1000,000 of her soldiers were raping each cashmeeri wimmens 500 times and how it was costing India 500,000 million dollars a second in "Siachin". These are nothing by psyops aimed at (a) Bolstering the "image" of the said tinpot (b) Dulling SDREs into thinking that solutions disadvantageous to India were being considered.

Mushy is a serial liar. The coup-engineering, doublespeaking, closet jihadi is using the lecture/talk show circuit to bolster up his image. Please recognize him for what he is. A failed commander who lost a war and a traitor who engineered a coup and overthrew the government in his own country over an employment dispute.

Usually the retard's four-point formula goes somewhat like this

1. Recognize there is a cashmere problem
2. Talk about the problem
3. Give cashmere to pakistan
4. Problem solved !!!

If he is as brilliant a statesman as he is a "strategic thinking army jernail" (some of the brilliance which we saw in Kargil) I am 400% sure he would have outwitted India.

archan · Post by **archan** » 19 Jul 2009 04:36

Wah Anujan ji! couldn't have been summarized better.

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 19 Jul 2009 04:58

Two articles to cheer you up
If only PRC is busy for the next five years with its Tibetan and Uighur problems and internal economic issues and Pakistan is left to its own devices!

Sorrows of Karachi
...
Political and criminal violence has been endemic but the recent increase in targeted killings of mainly political activists was shocking even from Karachi’s high threshold of tolerance for this kind of savage and primitive violence. This has been so in spite of the grand alliance of potential adversaries that the Sindh government represents.
...
For quite some time, there has been grave apprehension about some kind of a volcanic eruption of violence in Karachi. There were some occasions in recent months when the city had moved to the very edge of the precipice. The issue of Talibanisation and the inflow of displaced persons from the troubled northern areas had created deep friction on the ethnic front. The Sindhi nationalists, fearful of becoming a minority in their own province, have also joined the fray.
...
A city, I would say, is like a tree and it grows from its soil. Karachi has remained alienated from its hinterland and in that sense, it is a city without roots.
...

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=188735

India-Pakistan rivalry
...
For FY 2009, Pakistan’s official defence spending is set at $4.3 billion while unofficial estimates go as high as $7.8 billion. If Pakistan were to match India’s rise we would have to spend more than five per cent of our GDP on defence. For the record, Iraq, Somalia and Sudan spend an overwhelmingly large percentage of their GDP on defence. Iraq, Somalia and Sudan are all — or have been — in a state of civil war. For the record, the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia use to spend an overwhelmingly large percentage of their GDP on defence. Soviet Union is no more. Czechoslovakia is no more.
...
Time — and money — is on India’s side.
...

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=188734

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Jul 2009 06:51

SSridhar wrote:Nothing can go wrong in Pakistan till Army & ISI are present - Musharraf saheb.

Musharraf is right.

All went well in 1965 under Ayub Khan when a vicious Indian attack was foiled and Pakistan emerged victorious

Things were even better under Yahya Khan in 1971 when another vicious Indian attack was driven back and both Pakistan and Bangladesh emerged victorious

In 1999, under Gen Musharraf's leadership a vicious attack by India on Pakistan was beaten back and Indians went begging to Washington.

And under Musharraf's (SAW) continued guidance Pakistan has emerged to become the biggest dung heap in the world.

I mean .. let me ask you folks - are Pakis for real?

Hey Pakis! We're laughing at ya! D'ya hear?

They take themselves so so seriously it's mind boggling.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Jul 2009 07:00

I guess the Army and ISI have moved to London. Along with Mush.

India should push to get Mush back.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jul 2009 07:47

Johann wrote:For all of Pakistan's failures and disasters the PA has largely remained prestigious and popular in Pakjab despite the eventual unpopularity of individual military dictators like Ayub Khan or Zia or Musharraf.

Pakistan will continue on the same course until Pakjab's love affair with the PA ends.

IMO, it is not the Punjabi love affair with the PA. It is the very existence of the Pakistani Punjab that is the problem. The PA largely exists because of the Punjab and the Pakiban exist only because of the Punjab. Pakistan derives its industrial and agricultural strengths from the Punjab. It also derives its religious fanaticism from there. All this while Punjab, like a leach, sucks the blood of smaller provinces, and fattens itself.

Ironically, neither Ayub Khan, nor Zia-ul-Haq or Musharraf was from the Punjab.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Jul 2009 08:01

For all of Pakistan's failures and disasters the PA has largely remained prestigious and popular in Pakjab despite the eventual unpopularity of individual military dictators like Ayub Khan or Zia or Musharraf.

Pakistan will continue on the same course until Pakjab's love affair with the PA ends.

What a pitiful excuse.

What else is there in Pakistan for them to love?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Jul 2009 08:14

Gilani blames India's "interference" in Balochistan
http://www.hinduonnet.com/holnus/003200907190333.htm
Islamabad (PTI): Two days after the controversial Indo-Pak joint statement in Egypt, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Saturday blamed India for "interference" in Balochistan and "other areas" and said the document reflected Pakistan's concerns over this.

The joint statement signed by him and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh "underlines our concerns over India's interference in Balochistan and other areas of Pakistan", Gilani told his first press conference after his return from Sharm-el Sheikh.

At the outset, he showered praise on Singh for agreeing to restart dialogue, saying the Indian leader had shown "political sagacity" and "statesmanship" in realising that talks were the only way forward.

The statement, which has been attacked by opposition parties and commentators in India, in a brief reference to Balochistan said that Gilani had "mentioned that Pakistan has some information on threats in Balochistan and other areas."

Referring to the document, Gilani said it provides for discussion on all outstanding issues with India.

Asked when Pakistan will give proof to India about its "interference" in Balochistan, he said "as and when talks take place, it will be handed over. Right now we are talking about talks."

During his long interaction with journalists, Gilani was congratulated by them for "showing courage" at the talks with Singh and getting Balochistan onto the table.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 19 Jul 2009 08:25

Fazlullah back on Swat airwaves

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 19 Jul 2009 08:33

What feckless people put us in a knotty and embarrassing situation!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jul 2009 09:16

New Trends in Pakistan's Counter-terrorism

It is however difficult to suggest if the top civilian and military leadership has come to a similar decision regarding the militant groups based in Punjab, who are known for violent activities in Indian-administered Kashmir and mainland India. Some of these groups have Islamic-sectarian orientations and function exclusively within Pakistan. The recent incident in Mian Channun shows that militancy is deep rooted in the province.

It seems that these groups are no longer favoured by Pakistan’s security and intelligence authorities. These have been put on hold because the army is busy in the tribal areas and does not want to open a new front in mainland Pakistan. Further, it does not want to seen as taking action against these groups under Indian pressure.

The Punjab security and intelligence apparatus is now targeting activists of these organisations and monitoring the madrassas that have a reputation for militancy and maintain links with the Taliban. This effort is aimed at destroying their networks, isolating them and discouraging recruitment.

The next two months will show if Pakistan’s civilian and military authorities will exert more pressure on Punjab-based militant groups and ensure that they do not force a foreign policy situation on Pakistan in its interaction with India. If the role of these groups is neutralised, it will be possible to argue that Pakistan’s counter-terrorism policy has made a historical shift.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jul 2009 09:19

That 'No Threat from India' was Zardari's Personal View

For the first time, one hears that the President of a Country airs personal views repeatedly about foreign policy issues. What a country !

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Jul 2009 09:44

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/NED/NED_of_US.html

National Endowment for Democracy of US
by B. Raman
International Endowment for Democracy, www.iefd.org

The US has also announced the association of India as co-sponsor with a forthcoming conference of "communities of democracies " in Poland being funded by the Stefan Batory Foundation of Poland, set up by George Soros in 1998, to counter the resurgence of communism in East Europe, and the Freedom House of the US.
The Freedom House was founded in the 1940s "to strengthen free institutions at home and abroad". It played an active role in carrying on a psychological warfare (psywar) against the troops of the USSR and the late President Najibullah in Afghanistan during the 1980s through the Afghanistan Information Centre set up by it, allegedly with CIA funds. The offices of this centre at Peshawar in Pakistan trained the Afghan Mujahideen groups and Pakistani organisations such as the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (formerly known as the Harkat-ul-Ansar) and the Lashkar-e-Taiba, presently active in Kashmir, in techniques of media management and psywar.
Since 1983, part of the funds voted by the Congress to the NED are funneled to the Freedom House, which also gets contributions from the private sector. The Freedom House focuses its activities on media and communications and, according to a 1990 study by the Interhemispherique Resource Centre of the US, more than 400 journalists in 55 countries were collaborating with the Freedom House in its activities against communist parties and regimes.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Jul 2009 10:21

SSridhar wrote:That 'No Threat from India' was Zardari's Personal View

For the first time, one hears that the President of a Country airs personal views repeatedly about foreign policy issues. What a country !

Saar,

mms has also apparently signed a "personal" joint statement with the porkis, judging from the uproar in India.

We are not bound by it.

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 19 Jul 2009 10:28

Pak admits to LeT's role in 26/11

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 19 Jul 2009 10:30

14 militants killed in Pakistan

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jul 2009 10:52

I will make Pakistan a Great Country - Zardari

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jul 2009 10:57

India - Pakistan rivalry

The US and the Soviet Union fought a 50-year Cold War during which the Soviet Union stockpiled some 13,000 active nuclear warheads. In 1991, the US won without even firing a shot. The Soviet Union raced a race that it couldn’t win. The Soviet Union split into 15.

Over the past century, economic development has been all about intense trading. Pakistan has two population centres; central Punjab and Karachi. Central Punjab is a thousand kilometres from the nearest port. Between Karachi and central Punjab is a desert in the east and on west is an area that does not — and cannot — support population concentrations. To develop economically, we must trade. Trade we must. And, the only population concentration to trade with is on our east.

Time — and money — is on India’s side. Composite dialogue among civilians means little — if anything at all. What is needed is a strategic dialogue. How can India be persuaded to pull back its offensive formations? In return for what? How can we use our America leverage in our longer-term interest? We cannot win an arms’ race with India. We ought to race a race that we can win. We can continue to race a race that we are bound to lose. Or, begin a new race that we may be able to win — or at least not lose.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 19 Jul 2009 11:35

Gilani has already made Balochistan and Indian 'interference' a platform to project himself as a sharp cookie in whose hand Pakistan is safe.

India and MMS are eating crow!

And what is equally worth noting is that Hillary Clinton has asked India to help Pakistan fight terrorism. One wonders how India can help? Maybe such Joint Statements where Pakistan gets away with murder is the way India can help!!!!!

Now, we are about to sign the End User Agreement and allow the US to inspect our defence equipment and other deals and our defence facilities.

51st State?

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 19 Jul 2009 13:10

This video is a couple of weeks old but worth watching. It has 4 parts, but i'm posting the part where GP speaks. You may check out the other 3 parts but it's mostly the usual drivel by the former pakistani minister.

Barely disguised contempt

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 19 Jul 2009 13:23

^^ Thanks.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 19 Jul 2009 13:26

^^india can never be 51st state as israel is 51st state.india can cannot evem be 52nd state of usa coz indians r not Caucasian. india can only be 2nd poodle 1st being pak.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 19 Jul 2009 13:28

I think India wants to compete with Pakistan now for who will be the first poodle.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 19 Jul 2009 13:29

Lets start a new thread - Terrorist Hindu Republic of India.

Many people have started comparing India With Pakistan.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 19 Jul 2009 13:30

GP is GOD when it comes to dealing with pakis.... He reads Pakis like an open book.