Telangana Monitor

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Surya
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Surya »

ok tried to get out but :)

If people take extra time they can get enough info on tug-of-war between Telugu and Tamil politicians for Central funds/projects
More red herrings

There are conflicts all around the country between states - does not mean they are all trying to split each other up??

Now I could say - when were Tamil politicians mentioned in all these years the Telangana issue was simmering?? I have asked for links??


you cannot throw a bomb in the middle - yell conspiracy by TN elites, show no proof or past linkage and expect the rest to be understanding?? Just as you are sensitive others are too.

Its just a question of being a disciplined forumite - considering the bigger picture than the parochial one.

Note: the usage was TN elites - NOT politicians
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Muppalla »

It will be interesting to see how this whole thing will turn out.

Pranab da says that only after resolution is passed in AP assembly there will be Telangana. Resoultion passing in state assembly is impossible. How will they form the state? Will they force Telangana state and gearup to deal with the violence in the other parts of the state?
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by ShyamSP »

Surya wrote: Note: the usage was TN elites - NOT politicians
I don't want to prolong, but

I thought TN elites should easily be understood in the context of this thread/discussion - TN business/politics nexus
MK, Maran, Chidambaram, etc. should fall under that term.

You don't have to pretend that you misinterpreted TN elites to be TN people.
It is clear Ramana didn't mean Tamil Elites to be Tamil Elites who don't have anything to do with politics.
Surya
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Surya »

Fair enough BUT

what one means and what one writes and moreover what others pick up on

all can be different

and that started the brouha
ShyamSP
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by ShyamSP »

Surya wrote:Fair enough BUT

what one means and what one writes and moreover what others pick up on

all can be different

and that started the brouha

Fair enough, BUT

You can directly post a seperate question to Ramana asking if he means businessman-politcian Chidambaram or Tamil people.

It is you or Stan fuzzied up the discussion by bringing Tamil people when you should not.

Whether it is pretense or ignorance, I leave it to your discretion.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Surya »

I brought the word people purely in argument with Mupulla's posts.



and then because you brought in the distinction of politcians from people, I used Ramanas quote of TN elites to show your distinction TECHNICALLY was wrong
ramana
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by ramana »

My info was Politician elite and not ordinary Tamils. And Stan got it.

Also isn't this eerily similar to how Partition happened in Punjab and Bengal? The people never thought it would come about and went along with the demands thinking its all fun and games. Suddenly a decision is announced and all hell breaks lose.
Surya
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Surya »

personally would have preferred referendums for this sort of stuff.

as long as they are not breaking out of the country and are economically viable- I see it differently.



maybe the consitution needs to be amended to provide a mechanism for it?? with some safeguards.
ramana
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Re: States News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

ramana wrote:They will have to impose President's rule for a short while.

------------------
Now nine new states all over India are being demanded


Google Cache of stories.

TOI:
President Rule Looms over Andhra Pradesh
HYDERABAD: Andhra Pradesh chief minister K Rosaiah's fate was all but sealed on Saturday when the prospect of President's rule loomed large over

Even as 20 ministers from the coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema regions decided to quit his cabinet, a beleaguered Rosaiah pleaded and promised to resign as chief minister instead. It was an attempt to bring an honourable end to a crisis triggered by Congress
leaders in Delhi when they announced a separate Telangana would be created.


Sources in Delhi insisted Central rule was not imminent and strongly denied Rosaiah had offered to resign. :mrgreen:

"Rosaiah is in touch with the high command. He has to resign very soon as there will be no government left if the 20 ministers resign. It is all over for him," a minister told TOI. :twisted:

Sources say that Rosaiah has not been able to obtain a clear directive from the high command because Congress president Sonia Gandhi was away in her Rae Bareli constituency till late on Saturday. :mrgreen:

Once the Congress high command takes stock of the spiralling situation, it is likely to give Rosaiah the go-ahead to step down, place the state assembly
in suspended animation and impose President’s rule. As a decision from the high command is thought to be unlikely before Monday, so the assembly will first be adjourned sine die, sources added.

"In such a regionally charged atmosphere, there is no question of Congress appointing another chief minister. And dissolution would mean fresh elections, something the ruling party would not want at this stage. If the assembly is placed under suspended animation, it can always be revived when the situation improves," a Congress politician told TOI. :|

There are 34 members in the council of ministers, including the chief minister. Of them, 20 belong to Andhra and Rayalaseema regions while 13 are from Telangana. The 20 non-Telangana ministers, met in Taj Deccan Hotel on Saturday afternoon and decided to quit the Cabinet.
And a history lesson:

Small States, Big Mistake?
Small states, big mistake?
Kingshuk Nag, TNN 13 December 2009, 02:13am IST

When Malik Kafur, Alauddin Khilji's favourite general sacked the Yadava kingdom of Devagiri (present-day Aurangabad) and made inroads into the Kakatiya kingdom at Warangal at the fag-end of the 13th century, little did he realize that his incursions would change this part of the world forever. Kafur was happy making away with gold-laden horses and the Kohinoor. But in the series of invasions that followed, Muhammad bin Tughlak set up his capital in the area before he was forced to retreat north. This sowed the seeds of a Deccani (Dakhni) culture, which reached its zenith in the 20th-century Hyderabad state of the Nizams. It sprawled across present-day Maharashtra, north Karnataka and Telangana. "A distinctive culture evolved. It was a synthesis of north and south, of Hindu and Muslim traditions, and also tribal culture as part of the area was populated with Gonds," says former minister Basheeruddin Babu-khan. A new way of life came into being with a distinct language, Dakhni, a synthesis of Urdu and Telugu; food habits; music and festivals that included Id, Dussehra and tribal feast days revolving around jungle cults.

Meanwhile, south of the Krishna river, the prosperous Vijayanagar kings held sway. Their kingdom, in present-day north-central Karnataka, controlled large parts of what is now Andhra Pradesh. The kings were great proponents of culture and built magnificent temples such as Lord Balaji's in Tirumala. Thus, they spawned a distinctive way of life. "The two cultures were poles apart," says Bharat Kumar who recently wrote a book on Telangana. From the 18th century, much of the area under Vijayanagar came into British hands. Madras was their regional headquarters. This brought English education to the region. As well as an irrigation system. All of this accentuated the differences with people in the Deccan region.

Unfortunately, the Nizams ran a military-feudal system, focused on revenue collection rather than mass education and development. Soon, the economic and cultural gap between the two peoples was enormous. "There was no common meeting ground, except for the Telugu language. But in Telangana the Telugu spoken was different and had no script. The Telugu in parts of the erstwhile British dominion was Sanskritised and classical," says a former state chief secretary.

Post-Independence, Sardar Patel used military action to ensure Hyderabad state was integrated with India. Eight years later, his successors ensured that parts of the erstwhile state were dismantled and amalgamated into newly formed Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Maharashtra. Andhra Pradesh itself was a union of the Telugu-speaking area of Telangana and the other part that was under the British. Interestingly, the creation of Andhra Pradesh ran counter to the recommendations of the States Reorganization Commission. It advised separate states. "But those were the heady days of integration and states on linguistic basis. Language was considered the basis of culture. So nobody thought that things could go amiss. Although things did not go awry in that sense, it was an uneasy alliance between two unequal economic partners," says the former chief secretary. :?:

Problems were compounded by mounting differences over the years, not least Telangana being an arid, resource-poor and landlocked region, perched in the highlands. It has no minerals and its coal is of dubious quality. The Godavari cuts through the area but it is difficult to funnel water from the river to the fields. In recent years, most Andhra farmers' suicides have occurred in this region. The area has two major power and irrigation projects, at Srisailam and Nagarjunasagar on the Telangana-Andhra border. But most of the water and power goes to the non-Telangana part of Andhra Pradesh. Landholdings are concentrated in the hands of the few, not the many, so the Maoist movement has deep roots here. Activists for Telangana say it is "an internal colony of the rest of Andhra".

They may have a point. Telangana has no native entrepreneurs but carpet-baggers from the coastal parts of the state have moved in. Right now, Telangana may never grow and develop unless the Centre pumps crores into developing it. It is worth noting that Andhra Pradesh's most productive areas, investment-rich Vishakhapatanam and the K G Basin, will stay with Andhra. Which would leave a new Telangana with just one asset - Hyderabad. But Brand Hyderabad is not about the manufacturing sector. It is about IT and ITeS. Both require human capital and are more mobile than manufacturing units. Such sectors are sensitive to the slightest change in the ecosystem. If Telangana comes into being, the image of Brand Hyderabad is bound to be battered. "Telangana is not economically viable. But we can't say that on the record," laments a Congress leader from Telangana. Clearly, small may not always be beautiful.
Manny
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Manny »

Isn't it odd where a decision is usually debated to death and where paralysis by analysis is the norm. This decision was made so fast and so quick?

It is strange indeed. I would like to know what the rationale was among the decision makers of this mischief.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by vina »

For Telugus full moon day is auspicious and new moon days are inauspicious. For Tamils the new moon day is the most auspicious day.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: .

Dude.. You are so mixed up, now you start seeing demons everywhere. New Moon and auspicious indeed !. So auspicious that nothing.. Absoultely nothing is celebrated on New Moon day and people usually wait for the waxing phase of the moon to celebrate stuff /start new ventures.

Case in point. In Tamil Nadu , Diwali is always one day AFTER the rest of the country (esp Andhra, karnataka etc). Everyone else has Diwali on new moon day, while Tamils since they don't celebrate on New Moon day (Amavasya) have it the next day!.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Airavat »

Hari Seldon
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Hari Seldon »

I was thinking, well, who cares if mere MLAs and state mantris put in their papers?

IMHO, it would have made a far greater impact in Dilli if Andhra MPs in the Union cabinet put in their papers or something.

And then I realized, that despite sending the single largest contingent of MPs from any state to the LS under the INC brand, there are no union cabinet berths reserved for AP folks?! (Am I mistaken here?) Only Pallam Raju shows up and he's a junior mantri - MoS defence.

Tells something about we telugus being taken for granted (again) by the INC High-on-something command. Like someone mentioned, the TDP was born because Rajiv trashed a servile AP CM at the airport Tarmac in '84. Seems we telugus and our elected reps need to take some more rough treatment in Dilli's corridors of power before we are forced to wake up to our sad situation.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by vina »

Telangana activists can't imagine a state without Hyderabad. "It is like a body without the head," says Gaddar, the revolutionary balladeer
That is so ironic. In fact according wikipedia, Potti Sriramulu was said to have used the exact same words for demand for Madras! The Tamils of course said that historic boundaries of "Tamil Country" was Tirpuati in the North..

Point is all this is R&D is simply crazy. It is not Domm and Gloom. No one is goint to ask Andhra folks to get a visa and line up in front of a "Telanaga Consulate" to go live there ,marry or do business or whatever . It will be as simple as driving from Chennai to Tirupati and vice versa. Really dont see what the problem and big hoo ha is all about.

That is why I think this entire agitation is politco and money bag "manufactured "and the aam Abdul and Apparao in Rayalseema and Coastal has nothing at all in this.

As for "oh I have relatives working there" .. sure. dont tell me you dont have relatives working in every major metro in India or even abroad. So how is Hyderabad so different ?.
ramana
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Re: States News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Is there a graph showing Center's allocation of resources to AP (raw and % of Center's States total allocation) from 1956 and how was it divided in the three regions?
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Rony »

PMK demands TN bifurcation
The Pattali Makkal Katchi (PMK), which had demanded the bifurcation of Tamil Nadu, on Saturday reiterated its stand in the wake of the Telangana crisis and urged the Centre to convene an all-party meeting in New Delhi to thrash out similar demands for “smaller states.”
Small is beautiful” is the maxim on which the PMK mooted the creation of “smaller states” nearly a decade ago, he noted. The party had then first raised the issue of carving out a new state from north Tamil Nadu, comprising nearly 13 districts, where the “Vanniyars” are the dominant caste-group.

“When I first raised this demand, there was a huge protest in Tamil Nadu. But now there won’t be any opposition to it after the Telangana developments,” Ramadoss said. “I don’t need to elaborate our demand, as new proponents of bifurcation have now cropped up,” he said.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by SwamyG »

Vina saar: I think you might be wrong regarding Amavasai or Deepavalli. Please double-check. Tamil Calendar is Solar Calendar (same basis that Punjabis follow). Telugus follow the Lunisolar calendar. It is possible that Muppalla gaaru is indicating those differences.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by TKiran »

I think we should now start looking for solution to this problem.

My take is that, there will be President's rule now. The people of Andhra and Rayalaseema who did not want to rub the wrong side of the Telangana People did not come openly supporting the Samaikyandhra. This was latent. But the people of Telangana realized the Politics of KCR and rejected him twice. The dreaded "T" word was uttered by PC and he is responsible for showing naivety, or intention, but the Word has come out. Now there will be lot of arguments "for" Telangana.

This whole problem can be solved if we leave the Telanganites to feel for themselves how it will be to be Telanganite. Majority of them are not Dhimmies, they sure will realize the importance of being in the United Andhra. More developmental models could be initiated only when Andhra is United. But if you split the State now, there is no way for re-unification. So we should have such an arrangement where Re-Unification should be given as first Priority for Telanganites, after a brief period of Experimentation with the current Assembly in Andhra Pradesh (ie a separate Assembly & CM for Telangana, for a period of 4.5 years). After that, I think the problem will never ever come up in another 50 years at least. Request the opinion of Learned BRites.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by TKiran »

vina wrote:
Telangana activists can't imagine a state without Hyderabad. "It is like a body without the head," says Gaddar, the revolutionary balladeer
That is so ironic. In fact according wikipedia, Potti Sriramulu was said to have used the exact same words for demand for Madras! The Tamils of course said that historic boundaries of "Tamil Country" was Tirpuati in the North..

Point is all this is R&D is simply crazy. It is not Domm and Gloom. No one is goint to ask Andhra folks to get a visa and line up in front of a "Telanaga Consulate" to go live there ,marry or do business or whatever . It will be as simple as driving from Chennai to Tirupati and vice versa. Really dont see what the problem and big hoo ha is all about.

That is why I think this entire agitation is politco and money bag "manufactured "and the aam Abdul and Apparao in Rayalseema and Coastal has nothing at all in this.

As for "oh I have relatives working there" .. sure. dont tell me you dont have relatives working in every major metro in India or even abroad. So how is Hyderabad so different ?.
Everybody, including the Politicians (Except YSR), thought the same, but the Latent desire for United Andhra is coming to the fore cutting across the Party lines. It is the people who want United Andhra, and the Politicians are reflecting the Sentiments of the people (I think there is much less politics after the announcement of "T" word by PC). That is the whole reason why even the Politicians were surprised at the turn of events.

But surely the Congress has succeeded in calling the Bluff of the Fence Sitters. If it was a Corporate, and if I have to let the Fence Sitters to take the sides, I too would have used similar tactics to call their bluff. But if I were a Politician, I would have kept my mouth shut and taken all the measures for the Security of Properties in Hyderabad, and I would have made KCR to give up his fast voluntarily or with a face saving formula instead of taking the Matter to my Master in Dilli. And if I were the Master in Dilli, I would have suggested this technique to my Slave in Andhra. oh, YSR we miss you dearly.....
ShyamSP
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by ShyamSP »

TKiran wrote:oh, YSR we miss you dearly.....
Your dear YSR was with T-issue until he bait-and-switched in Nandyal saying KCR would take away Pothureddi padu waters soon after Telangana elections are over in Apr '09.

If YSR didn't truck with TRS in 2004, today no body would have known TRS or KCR or T-issue at National level and whole AP would have been happy.

Of course, if he was alive he wouldn't have brought to this brinkmanship. Center wouldn't have this much control to play with AP. This gives suspicion that he was obstacle and got eliminated (Note this is CT only without proof)
Last edited by ShyamSP on 13 Dec 2009 09:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by jaladipc »

TKiran wrote: Everybody, including the Politicians (Except YSR), thought the same, but the Latent desire for United Andhra is coming to the fore cutting across the Party lines. It is the people who want United Andhra, and the Politicians are reflecting the Sentiments of the people (I think there is much less politics after the announcement of "T" word by PC). That is the whole reason why even the Politicians were surprised at the turn of events.

But surely the Congress has succeeded in calling the Bluff of the Fence Sitters. If it was a Corporate, and if I have to let the Fence Sitters to take the sides, I too would have used similar tactics to call their bluff. But if I were a Politician, I would have kept my mouth shut and taken all the measures for the Security of Properties in Hyderabad, and I would have made KCR to give up his fast voluntarily or with a face saving formula instead of taking the Matter to my Master in Dilli. And if I were the Master in Dilli, I would have suggested this technique to my Slave in Andhra. oh, YSR we miss you dearly.....
This newest agitation is purely a political and later socially manipulated issue.

Any telugite after looking into the issue can come up with few conclusions.

After the joining of both Andhra and Hyderabad states in 56,most of the development took place only in the andhra region and in the state capital.and guess what? Its been Congress ruling the state all the time untill TDP showed up for a blink of an eye and then congress again.
All these congress people laundered all their money with vested interests in Hyderabad only considering the fact that Hyderabad will be the future cosmopolitan and their properties will yield 100 times more value.

its funny to hear after all that these people are fighting for an unified andhra.Arent these the same people who fought like street dogs during elections and during water crisis and what not?
And this guy Lagadapati who invested 1000`s of crores in hyderabad for his own sake ,now shivering down his spine with the decision of T is a moron of his own. And look at NCB,who himself gave interviews just hours before center declaring seperate T,that he will support T cause blah blah.......

After all these bunch of politicians are just politicians who further downgrade the name of politics.
I go with separate T. I was always of the opinion that ,small states give great scope to development if tackled properly.
The AP politicians in general,will eat shit if need arises and later clean their mouth with phenol once work is done.
p.s: I used to belong to coastal andhra and still has so many interests at stake with creation of T,yet I support T.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by TKiran »

ShyamSP wrote:
TKiran wrote:oh, YSR we miss you dearly.....
Your dear YSR was with T-issue until he bait-and-switched in Nandyal saying KCR would take away Pothureddi padu waters soon after Telangana elections are over in Apr '09.

If YSR didn't truck with TRS in 2004, today no body would have known TRS or KCR or T-issue at National level and whole AP would have been happy.

Of course, if he was alive he wouldn't have brought to this brinkmanship. Center wouldn't have this much control to play with AP. This gives suspicion that he was obstacle and got eliminated (Note this is CT only without proof)
YSR would have won even without TRS in 2004. But he was not able to sense that. His calculation was that, TRS is just a Political Entity whose ideology is unacceptable for the People of Telangana, but any way they are going to vote for the sake of anti-incumbancy to KCR, and give a cabinet berth to KCR, and the problem of Telangana would be solved just like Chenna Reddy was amicable to United Andhra as soon as he was given some carrots. He needed TRS to boost the anti-incumbancy of TDP. He used KCR like "Karivepaaku". But when KCR started acting crazy, YSR showed his place once with the mid-term elections (When TRS MP's and MLA's voluntarily resigned and lost the elections) and the last nail in the coffin came with 2009 elections, when INC was the only party which made "Samaikyaandhra" as its election platform when he correctly guessed (or did he know) the sentiments of the People. (of course it would be political naivity if he had said that before the Telangana Elections were conducted in April 2009). YSR was not only shrewd politician, but also very good reader of People's sentiment (though he could not estimate the extent of anti-incumbancy in 2004 elections, he had self doubts)

In fact, TDP spokesperson yesterday in NDTV discussion publicly said that they lost the 2009 election because they tied up with TRS. Otherwise it would have been TDP ruling the AP now.
Last edited by TKiran on 13 Dec 2009 09:44, edited 1 time in total.
enqyoob
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by enqyoob »

There is a quote in the Indian Express today from Chandrasekhara Rao where he claims that Hyderabad was always in Telangana, not in Andhra. How come? Wasn't Hyderabad, for some x00 years until 1947 an Islamic Sultanate with Razakars/other Darwin Award Aspirants running amok etc? So Telangana== Islamic Sultanate? :?:

Question from ignorance: What does "Andhra" mean and why is a "Telangana" needed separate from that? This makes no sense at all to me from non-Telugu pov. Will someone pls explain the roots of this?
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Virupaksha »

enqyoob wrote:There is a quote in the Indian Express today from Chandrasekhara Rao where he claims that Hyderabad was always in Telangana, not in Andhra. How come? Wasn't Hyderabad, for some x00 years until 1947 an Islamic Sultanate with Razakars/other Darwin Award Aspirants running amok etc? So Telangana== Islamic Sultanate? :?:

Question from ignorance: What does "Andhra" mean and why is a "Telangana" needed separate from that? This makes no sense at all to me from non-Telugu pov. Will someone pls explain the roots of this?
To be frank, I do not know what Andhra means. "Telangana" is supposed to be a corruption of "Trilinga" -->telengu/telugu. When I was young, I used to think of it as simply another word for telugu.
You can read more about it here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telugu_language#Etymology

Nizam at an earlier time ruled most of present day andhra pradesh + parts of maha/karnataka. However for taking the help of britishers, he had to give to the britishers, the present day coastal andhra + raayalseema. So for around 200 years the adminstration of these areas has been in different hands, which meant development of culture in slightly different ways.

This is where the Darwin is right now. and Yes, the basis for the division is that islamic sultanate only.....
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by TKiran »

jaladipc wrote:
This newest agitation is purely a political and later socially manipulated issue.
I disagree with you, it was latent Social Issue, as nobody wanted to rub the Telanganite the wrong side, when are still part of United Andhra, that cannot be called naivety. It is sensitivity to fellow Telugus. The Politicians thought it was acceptance of splitting the state. Politicians cant read the Sensitivities of People, they thought it was Social Approval, that was wrong judgement of the Politicians.
jaladipc wrote:
After the joining of both Andhra and Hyderabad states in 56,most of the development took place only in the andhra region and in the state capital.and guess what? Its been Congress ruling the state all the time untill TDP showed up for a blink of an eye and then congress again.
All these congress people laundered all their money with vested interests in Hyderabad only considering the fact that Hyderabad will be the future cosmopolitan and their properties will yield 100 times more value.
That is non-sense. Telangana is a difficult region, and Development can come only after the State is Economically strong. Even in 2002 when Bangalore's IT exports were $5 Billions, Hyderabad's IT exports were in range of $200 to 300 millions, the development in Hyderabad is such a recent phenomenon, which has nothing to do with Andhra Region's Inputs, it was United Andhra Pradesh Govt. of CBN, which has marketed the Place and improved the image of the State and all the environment was favourable for such a growing opportunities. Certainly it was the IT which brought fast pace of Development to the City and it is recent phenomenon, and it has everything to do with the Opportunity at hand and Proper Marketing.

Telangana has been as under-developed or developed as the rest of the State. There was no favouritism shown as the resources themselves are so meagre, and there was natural advantages of Andhra Region such as Krishna, Godavari and Vizag etc., so there were more favourable conditions for development in this region and it was not deliberate. Telangana is higher in plane and still there were studies conducted and some efforts made to divert the River waters to that region as recently as a Decade ago. The govt of United Andhra whether Congress or TDP has always tried to Develop the Entire Andhra Pradesh, with whatever means they had, some regions have natural advantages, and nobody should feel victimized for that reason.
jaladipc wrote: its funny to hear after all that these people are fighting for an unified andhra.Arent these the same people who fought like street dogs during elections and during water crisis and what not?
And this guy Lagadapati who invested 1000`s of crores in hyderabad for his own sake ,now shivering down his spine with the decision of T is a moron of his own. And look at NCB,who himself gave interviews just hours before center declaring seperate T,that he will support T cause blah blah.......

After all these bunch of politicians are just politicians who further downgrade the name of politics.
I go with separate T. I was always of the opinion that ,small states give great scope to development if tackled properly.
The AP politicians in general,will eat shit if need arises and later clean their mouth with phenol once work is done.
p.s: I used to belong to coastal andhra and still has so many interests at stake with creation of T,yet I support T.
Yeah, it will be funny for you, as you are not aware of the Facts, you are just another apologist.
Rony
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Rony »

enqyoob wrote:There is a quote in the Indian Express today from Chandrasekhara Rao where he claims that Hyderabad was always in Telangana, not in Andhra. How come? Wasn't Hyderabad, for some x00 years until 1947 an Islamic Sultanate with Razakars/other Darwin Award Aspirants running amok etc? So Telangana== Islamic Sultanate? :?:

Question from ignorance: What does "Andhra" mean and why is a "Telangana" needed separate from that? This makes no sense at all to me from non-Telugu pov. Will someone pls explain the roots of this?

Telangana History ... Facts and Myths
Brief History: Approximately seven centuries of slavery under the Muslim autocracy and 50 years of democracy have influenced the culture of the Hyderabad City and the State. In the North India, the Muslim rule started with the defeat of the last Hindu and Buddhist empires in Afghanistan in early 7th century, while Vijayanagar (1336-1678) was the last Hindu empire to fall in the South. It took approximately 7 centuries for Islamic marauders to reach the south from the north-west. Telangana, the core of Hyderabad State, came under Muslim rule briefly when Alauddin Khilji from Delhi defeated the emperor Prataparudra of Kakatiya Dynasty that ruled from Warangal as Capitol, on March 19, 1310. The huge booty carried to Delhi by one thousand camels included the famous Kohinoor Diamaond. (Yes, this is the same Allauddin who plundered Chittorgarh for material and carnal booty, including queen Padmini. After a heroic resistance against his brutal Muslim onslaught for about eight months, valiantRajputs were defeated and on the 26th of August 1303, under the leadership of Rani Padmini, the Rajput women plunged themselves into the fire to escape rape and slavery .) Warangal was taken back from Delhi sultanate in 1336 by Vijayanagar dynasty, which fell to Muslims later in 1678 and became part of Golconda state under Mughals. Nizam gifted away coastal Andhra to French in 1752 unable to control the resistance and hostile nature of people from andhra and rayalaseema, who were already literate and organised and were rich in agriculture hertiage and tradition. East India Company acquired Andhra from the French in 1766, which became part of Madras province of the British Empire. However, Hyderabad (Golconda) remained part of various Muslim dynasties for 7 centuries uninterrupted: Delhi sultanate (1310-1336), independent Bahmani sultanate - a major Muslim dynasty that ruled central and south India (1345-1512), Turkman Qutub Shahi dynasty of Golconda kingdom (1512-1687), Mughal Dynasty of Delhi (1687- 1724) and Nizam dynasty of Hyderabad (1724-1948).


Liberation: There was an increase in political and cultural awareness among peoples of Hindu religions of Hyderabad State at the end of 19 th century. As part of Nizam's grand design to counter the growing cultural and political awareness among Hindus (~90% of the total population at the time) in the state, the Telugu names of districts, for example, Elagandala, Palamuru, Induru, and Metuku were changed to Karim Nagar, Mahaboob Nagar, Nizamabad, and Medak respectively, and towns like Manukota and Bhuvanagir were renamed as Mahaboobnagar and Bhongir respectively in 1905. Village names ending in padu were changed to pahad. At the same time a proclamation was issued making Hyderabad State an Islamic state. In 1911, Mir Osman Ali Khan succeeded to the dynasty. During his rule Islamization of Hyderabad State was intensified. With the encouragement of the Nizam government a blatant communal organization Majlis Ittehadul Muslimeen was formed. This organization along with "Anjuman Tabli Gulistan" inaugurated Tablig movement to convert Hindus to Islam. In August 1919, Osmania University was founded to impart higher education in Urdu medium to Muslims and Urdu speaking Hindus in Telangana. This was the first ever University in the last millennium in the Telugu land! The second university established was Andhra University in Andhra region of Madras province under the British raj in 1925. (The number of institutions of higher education per capita in Andhra Pradesh is way way way below that of any advanced country.)

Of course, the Nizam dynasty’s intentions were to annihilate the Hindu languages and cultures. Hindu students had to face many hardships and restrictions at the University. The Hindu cultures and religions were openly ridiculed, e.g., during Milad-un-Nabi celebrations of 1937, Prof. Maulvi Nazarul Hassan Gilani openly admonished the Muslims for their failure to convert Hindus to Islam by saying, " I am pained to see the inertness amongst Muslims, when there exist still 22 million of ‘Dung Worshippers’ in this country (Hyderabad State)." Similarly, Mohammed Ali Jinnah, father of Islamic State of Pakistan (Islamic Pure State), addressed the students of Osmania University as "my Muslim students," ignoring Hindus among the students.

Kasim Razvi, the president of Majlis Ittehadul Muslimeen ( YES the current MIM party in HYDERABAD )in erstwhile Hyderabad State, believed that he was destined to plant Asafia flag on the Red Fort in Delhi and make the waves of the Bay of Bengal wash the feet of Nizam. He was successful in intoxicating thousands of Muslims of Hyderabad State to enroll as razakars and take pledge to maintain the Muslim supremacy in Deccan and Hyderabad State. When the British left the Indian Continent in 1947, the Nizam wished to remain independent, while Hindus wanted to join the democratic Indian Union. A series of riots and mayhem, known as Razakarmovement were instigated by the Nizam and Majlis Ittehadul Muslimeen party against popular demand "Join India" to join the Indian Union and overthrow the Muslim autocracy. Finally, the Hyderabad State joined the Indian Union with the help of the Union army in 1948, in an action popularly known as the police action. However, communal riots between Muslims and Hindus continued due to communal ‘divide and rule policy’ and minority-vote-bank politics of Congress party until saffron clad Nandamuri Taraka Ramarao (NTR) became Chief Minister.

Now Kasim Razvi the Razakaar Leader, went unpunished with a few years in jail, however his crimes against the innocent telangana people were much much cruel than Gen Dyer , which went unrecorded into history. There were many jalianwala bagh's here, it was just that there were no survivors even from press to report such incidents, the Razaakars sometimed killed more than 2000 people a day , and looted and raped thousands of women , and kidnapped them only to be gifted to the NIZAM , and all these kidnapped women were kept in KOTA, or KOTE, where in the NIZAM always had 3000 women for his pleasure and entertainment , and that area primarily is now called KING KOTI in hyderabad , one of the primary reasons why there is a huge shopping for woman till date . The Razakaars burned dozens of villages, slaughtering men like cows and goats, and in some villages , the poor people sent thier own sisters and mothers and wives along with razakaars so that they would be spared , this is the time where the popular telangana term " nee kalmokuta banchan" came alive.There were special village squads formed to protect themselves by the people of telanagana, but most of them were small packs of resistance who lacked both skill and arms to stand against the mighty Razakaars, and they were easily supressed, except for a few baironpalli incidents there were no major victories against the Razakaars.

700 years of muslim rule, it was during this period, that telangana was forced into Islamization, they were speaking TURDU, a combination of urdu and Telugu, and lost most of thier diction, and culture and way of living .the only occupation was to work for the muslim rulers, or no work.Education was completely sidelined, basic aminities like food , cloth, shelter were a luxury , woman were not allowed to step out and it was more of a drought in telanagana for more than 4 centuries until Hyderabad was formed.

Now after the independence, Hyderabad was the last territory to join Union of India, but Nizam tried all his ways to make it a part of Pakistan Just like Bangladesh.However he dint have much of a choice so had to surrender to the indian army led by Gen Chauduri. Now telangana became a part of AP in 1950 , alhtough there wasnt any separate state of AP, but in 1956 the first state in independent india that was formed under linguistic base is AP.

the history of Telangana tells you that it was the muslim rulers and NIZAM who ruined this area, depriving them of thier basic right to live , and it took a lot of time to telangana to recuperate from the 700 year old tyranny and even today it has not came out of its cluthes yet completely.only telangana has its district names like Karimnagar, Medak,Mahbubnagar, Adilabad, Khammam, however None of the districts in other parts of AP are named or were given a choice to show thier muscle over the region.

1. Nizam has occupied almost all the districts in telangana, but he couldnt occupy Vijayawada which is just 300 Km away from Hyderabad, Vijayawada was once a hud for all telanagana activits and lobbyists to oppose nizam as they were not allowed to meet in telangana.

2.Post independence Telangana was again taken over by the rich landlords and feudal lords who worked under Nizam in various positions or who Managed to maintain thier power with money and muscle naming Velama Dora's .(KCR is a Velama Dora).

3.If there was any Dark age in telangana after Nizams it was under Velama Dora's.

4. Unable to see these atrocities against the poor and innocent telangana people, Kondapalli Seetaramaiah the Master mind and founder of PEOPLE'S WAR GROUP Naxalites took the side of people and started feudal fight with the landlords, which resulted in another blood shed phase .

5. Why did Kondapalli seetaramaiah come and fight for telangana people all way from guntur? wasnt he a Andhrite?

6.Today some politcial leaders Biased towards telanagana say, even before Coasta and Seema , there was rich hyderabad samstanam, i agree but it was the muslim samstanam not telangana samstanam, isnt it?

7.KCR says andhrites looted telanagana than nizam , he is supporting the same tyrant who wanted to convert 22 million telangana people into islam and called them DUNG WORSHIPPERS.

8. It was the telangana people who could not resist Nizam effectively in any stage, they themselves have pushed themselves into dark ages.

9. while the people from coastal equipped themselves with agriculture , education, state of living from british in this 700 old period and also from prosperous rulers like Sri krishna devaraya, telanagana people had no knowledge or chance of evolving at all, i would not blame them.

10.People of telangana are innocent which is why when ever a idiot cunning politician wants some mileage they Used telanagan sentiment as thier weapon only to prosper themselves.

11. KCR who talks so much about telangana, did not even approve one single file in favour of that region during his term as a minister in both NTR and CBN cabinet for over 10 years. who stopped him to do any good for this region?

12. Do you know that 90% of the money that was been pumped into Hyderabad is from coastal districs?

13. Do you know W.Godavari and E.Godavari are the two second richest districts in India?

14. D o you know that more than any other city Hyderabad has more number of expensive cars ?

Lastly none of the people in any area or district have anything against telanagana except it is created and maintained by politcians, who would fall to any extent to aquire power.People of AP are wise and matured, they are emotional but not idiots, and i am always proud to be a Andhrite, which includes my telangana , rayalaseema, and coasta.i have many friends who never cribbed about other regions which clearly says what is in people's mind.
Muppalla
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Muppalla »

Telugu language is also called Andhra bhasha where as Telugu and Telangana are the words from Three Shiva Temples ( tri linga). The funny part is "so called backward" Telangana folks ruled the rest of the current AP under kakateeya kingdom with Warangal as capital.
Lastly none of the people in any area or district have anything against telanagana except it is created and maintained by politcians, who would fall to any extent to aquire power.People of AP are wise and matured, they are emotional but not idiots, and i am always proud to be a Andhrite, which includes my telangana , rayalaseema, and coasta.i have many friends who never cribbed about other regions which clearly says what is in people's mind.
This is true and there will be no anti-Telangana backlash from other parts irrespective of the formation of Telangana. In one of the posts I worte this as well Tamils are neighbors but Telangana folks are blood relations. This is fact for centuries.

Non-Telangana Telugus are extremely politically savvy especially the folks from Rayalaseema (neighbors of TN) and they see this whole thing as a plot against Telugu domination of southern and Indian politics.

The argument that the other parts are interested in some prosperous-real-estate in Hyderabad and hence the attachment is very childish and with lack of knowledge. I would say you aint know the wealth of Coastal Andhra folks as an answer. For a substantial number of folks there the personal wealth is crossing billion dollars. They could construct another Hyderabad in couple of decades. Vizag is geared for such a feat. Often repeated line about Lagadapati Rajgopal ( I hate him for some other reason) as someone hungry for Hyd real estate and hence the trigger is also not true. Lanco group of Indistries implemented construction contracts in United States as well. They are a major players even before Hyd boomed. Just see its balance sheet from its website to get an idea of how much that fellow holds. He is businessman and hence he will be hungry. Even if he loses 1000 crore ( it is exaggarated) he will not lose a spoonful of his wealth. Hyd realestate will go down as a shock and not forever. The players will be same. If Raheja builders are there from Mumbai then every other builder will also be there.

The whole theory that some wealth is the reason is not true. Telangana folks are not throwing out anyone even after split. It is a sentiment just like seperate Telangana sentiment. The leadership failed to balance it.
Virupaksha
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Virupaksha »

Muppalla wrote:Telugu language is also called Andhra bhasha where as Telugu and Telangana are the words from Three Shiva Temples ( tri linga). The funny part is "so called backward" Telangana folks ruled the rest of the current AP under kakateeya kingdom with Warangal as capital.
The other part is telangana has almost always been in muslim rule from then on till independence. coastal andhra was in the hands of vijayanagara, gajapatis, nizam, french, british, smaller kingdoms and enjoyed in brief periods atleast revival and official sanction to develop its culture but telangana moved from kutubshahi to mughal to nizam - which means living as second class citizens for 600 years.

It has its effects on psyche and small aspects of culture.
JwalaMukhi
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by JwalaMukhi »

It is not about redrawing state boundaries but about resizing (reducing the size) states. In this scheme of things, no state can expect to expand than its present size. Perversely the end result of this excercise is a strong center and a core that will make sub-identities powerless, although in the beginning it feels as if sub-identities are being empowered. Is strong center necessary with a string of weaker states, especially when center is in the business of doling out welfare schemes to States?
Isn't that the most desirable goal to have homogenization and power resting at the national level. Well, that is successful beyond anyones wildest dreams. Center if it is noble, it will be good, but Center being predatory is not good at national level. How does homogenization square with the current outcome?
A rhetorical question. Why are MPs from other States such as say Orissa, Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh etc., are not resigning/protesting? If the scheme is bad for AP today, it would be worse for other states too in future. This reflects paucity of influence cultivated by each of the states in regions beyond their locale. All politics tend to be local. Essentially, AP is left to fend for itself, in this scheme. It is a clear demonstration that center is way too powerful over all the rest of the states in avenues where it shouldn't be. And center continues to garner more such power in avenues where it shouldn't be, but dilutes its power in avenues such as internal security, external affairs etc., where it should.
The satraps in each of the state of the union do not cultivate and stand up for any transgressions committed by the center, be it in dismissing state governments at will, unless it affects only their state. It is a power struggle between naked unitary state versus the center. No guess as to who will win the round.
States of the union have willingly colloborated, colluded and voluntarily submitted to have their powers and autonomy curtailed to/by the center for a long time, for the sake of receiving the dole. No surprises there. Now, creation of more states would not change the dynamics of how states behave with respect to center. States have failed to articulate and safeguard what are its genuine and legitimate interests. States in their bravado have had bloated self importance and hence failed to cultivate the necessary support that they require from other states. States depend on center to have friendly relationship with other states, including their neighbouring ones, let alone other states at distance.
If sizes of state are reduced (increase in number of states) would it spurr the development and recognition of interdependency with surrounding and other states of the union? Remains to be seen.
Neshant
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Neshant »

the avalanch will soon begin of people demanding their own state.

watch out! its a slippery slope.
vera_k
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by vera_k »

I doubt the Centre is that powerful - I mean what can it do if a state decides to leave the union because of a bone-headed Central decision?

On a related topic: what is the procedure for a state to demand a different distribution of powers between the Centre and the State? How can a State get to have its own flag or raise it's own income tax?
Virupaksha
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Virupaksha »

vera_k wrote:I doubt the Centre is that powerful - I mean what can it do if a state decides to leave the union because of a bone-headed Central decision?
Please tell me that you live in United states of blackwater and Goldman Sach. Because I cant even see how an Indian living in India is soooooo clueless.
On a related topic: what is the procedure for a state to demand a different distribution of powers between the Centre and the State? How can a State get to have its own flag or raise it's own income tax?
:rotfl: :rotfl:
I think Shiv has a word for it - Fractal recursivity.

You are originally from X. move out to Y and learn new things in Y, then try to apply those things to X. What happens it is a bumper bumper flop.

In short, do not apply the Massa Uncle's vision to India. Both have been born in different contexts and histories.
vera_k
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by vera_k »

ravi_ku wrote:Please tell me that you live in United states of blackwater and Goldman Sach. Because I cant even see how an Indian living in India is soooooo clueless.
It's a serious statement. The Centre cannot keep a state in the union by force if the people of the state don't desire it to be so.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
I think Shiv has a word for it - Fractal recursivity.
What's so amusing? Perhaps the new SRC will tackle these issues if states ask for it.
Virupaksha
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Virupaksha »

vera_k wrote:
ravi_ku wrote:Please tell me that you live in United states of blackwater and Goldman Sach. Because I cant even see how an Indian living in India is soooooo clueless.
It's a serious statement. The Centre cannot keep a state in the union by force if the people of the state don't desire it to be so.
punjab has already tried it.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
I think Shiv has a word for it - Fractal recursivity.
What's so amusing? Perhaps the new SRC will tackle these issues if states ask for it.
btw - src is for deciding the boundaries of states.

Next question, the question of powers is decided by the constitution which has three lists. central, state, concurrent. concurrent lists are those in which power is held by both centre and state as long as the centre doesnt make a rule, states rule.

here is the seventh schedule of the constitution which gives the list.

http://lawmin.nic.in/coi/SEVENTH-SCHEDULE.pdf
brihaspati
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by brihaspati »

Too many small states do not ultimately mean growing power of the centre.

To start with, if the centre had felt that powerful - it would not think of dividing up its potential "competitors". It can mean simply multiplication of enemies. Such a weakening can only be achieved, if not only are sizes reduced (and hence potentially and hopefully their economic clout) but also if the newly subdivided groups can be kept constantly at each others throats.

This division is not aimed just at empowering the centre at the cost of the regions. It is also about setting up the dynasty as the sole focus of national unity. To create the illusion that the only entity capable of resolving conflicts between such and so many disparate groups is the "family" and the individual. You can notice it in the various statements coming out of the AP imbroglio - especially in the remarks from the pro-division factions about the "gratitude" and the crucial roleplaying expected of the "family".

Such desparate tactics to ensure dynastic continuity and survival implies a deep fear of the unreliability of the basis of power. It is not a good sign in that it possibly indicates that the Congress is increasingly unsure of it future. Either it has come to assessments about the future prospects of the family as the focus that it is not entirely positive about. Or it has been fed scenarios in the hatching which can mean tremendous backlash for the brand of ideological vacuousness it has imposed in national polity. This can make it do really strange things.

Given the strange Freudian slips in the interviews of the pro-division leaders, about the importance of the Hyderabadi version of "Urdu", and the known facts of the penetration and remarkable spread of evangelist and Naxalite activity in Telengana - which seems to have peculiar accelerations and decelerations, when certain political regimes come to power - shows that the Congress is desperate to create captive "electorates". The traditional allies of Islamism, EJism and Maoism - all managed in a consummate court politics - intrigue style.
Gerard
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Gerard »

Small needn’t mean beautiful
Creating smaller states may improve access to infrastructure but there is little statistical evidence to suggest that Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand and Uttarakhand have outperformed their parent states in social indicators since they were carved out.
ShyamSP
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by ShyamSP »

enqyoob wrote:There is a quote in the Indian Express today from Chandrasekhara Rao where he claims that Hyderabad was always in Telangana, not in Andhra. How come? Wasn't Hyderabad, for some x00 years until 1947 an Islamic Sultanate with Razakars/other Darwin Award Aspirants running amok etc? So Telangana== Islamic Sultanate? :?:

Question from ignorance: What does "Andhra" mean and why is a "Telangana" needed separate from that? This makes no sense at all to me from non-Telugu pov. Will someone pls explain the roots of this?

Before Islamic rule, ancient Andhra encompases Godavari-Krishna delta area of Maharastra, Karnataka, AP (See Satavanhana rule from Pratisthana to Amaravati. See Andhra history thread also). For ancient Telugus, Andhra was current-day Telengana and four krishna-Godavari Coastal districts.

Proper Andhra is Telengana. Unfortunately current Telengana elites don't want to use that Andhra word as it means Andhra state (Coastal districts and Rayalaseema) in last 60 years and some times it just mean Coastal AP. n Ancient times much of Rayalaseema and Uttar Andhra areas are not part of ancient Andhra kingdoms till later times. That is the power of Dhimmitude in Telengana resulting in denying their own past.

In Ancient times, core of Andhra = current Telengana area
In modern times core of Andhra = Coastal AP (esp, Guntur, Krishna, East and West Godavari districts).

Current day AP is shaped by Eastern Chalukyas followed by Kakatiyas. Deccan Sultans took ancient Andhra made it to now Telengana after independence.

Hope that clarifies.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Muppalla »

She is just making political statements. If she is serious then she should call an Assembly session and pass the resolution first. These are all hot air statements.
Creating smaller states may improve access to infrastructure but there is little statistical evidence to suggest that Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand and Uttarakhand have outperformed their parent states in social indicators since they were carved out.
In Jharkhand the assembly elections are being held in seven phases. That means the Law and order is as worse as Jammu and Kashmir. They have a lot of mineral wealth and the revenue on which undivided Bihar lived on for a very long time. The stability of the Government there is always a problem. Now both Bihar and JHK has no other business except conducting rallies and assembly resolutions against Raj Thakrey. Inspite of huge potential, the erstwhile "glorious magadh" is s h i t poor. The bigger Bihar now lost even political clout in India. When kosi river devastated Bihar with floods ( mother of all floods in a quarter century of India), the Bihari clout is in such a pitiable state as no one extended any help for several days. The people just died and there is no count also regarding how many died becasue no one cares the death of extreme poor. Compare that with the funds raised for Tsunami or Gujarat earthquake. There are no competetions between ASHA/IDRF or any other fund raising cabals when it came to Bihar.

Small states are beautiful only if they are already rich.
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Re: Redrawing State Boundaries

Post by Muppalla »

225 legislators will oppose Andhra division: Rajagopal

Congress MP from Vijayawada L. Rajagopal said Sunday that 225 Andhra Pradesh legislators would oppose the resolution to bifurcate the state for Telangana if the motion is put to vote in the state assembly.

Stating that the decision to initiate the process for formation of a separate state was taken by the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government and not by the Congress leadership{this is a crappy statement and what does he mean by that}, he demanded that the resolution be moved in the assembly and members be allowed to cast their vote according to their conscience.

'In the 294-member assembly, 225 members will oppose the resolution,' Rajagopal asserted while addressing a news conference here.
{I don't believe it and it could be just hot air}

The industrialist MP claimed that 50 legislators from Telangana besides 175 from Andhra and Rayalaseema regions would vote against the resolution.

This was Rajagopal's first public appearance after he submitted his resignation to the speaker three days ago.

He also announced his plans to launch a hunger strike in Hyderabad to oppose the proposed formation of Telangana state.

Rajagopal, one of the richest politicians in the country, said there would be a by-election to his Lok Sabha constituency as he had submitted his resignation and added that he would not contest again.

'I have submitted my resignation letter to the speaker and I can't disclose what transpired between me and the speaker as I am bound by the constitution,' he said.

Rajagopal also requested the Congress leadership to field a candidate from Telangana region in the by-elections to prove that people wanted to keep the state united.

Rajagopal denied that he was opposing formation of a separate Telangana as his Lanco Group of industries had made huge investments in Hyderabad.

'Now I have decided to join the movement (against division of the state). Hyderabad (which is proposed to be the capital of Telangana, when created) is the mother and the 22 districts of Andhra Pradesh are her children. We will not betray our mother,' he said.
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