Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Feb 2010 21:23

Ananya wrote:Krishna should retire and go home , why does he want all this when his is days away from salvation.

WHY only SMK? The whole gang responsible for this surrender must be booted out of power and put into retirement.

SSridhar:

In one of your earlier posts you alluded to Mush's promise to Vajpayee that TSP's territory won't be used to launch terror attacks against India. One needs to parse this statement carefully. As much as people like me rail against MMS, and with justification, one cannot ignore the damage Vajpayee and "my friend Strobe, Jinnah is a statesman" have done. What they have implictly accepted from Mush is that India only means everything else except J&K. In other words, NDA too accepted that a) India does not include J&K, and as a corollary, b) terror confined to J&K is acceptable to India for talks to proceed. Thus, both BJP-led NDA, and Congress have bought the TSP/US position that there is no way TSP can touch LeT unless Kashmir is "resolved". And you & I both know what TSP means by resolution.

I am truly flabbergasted as to how through Chanakyan means alone, India can untie the LeT know around its neck.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 04 Feb 2010 21:26

Sometime back this board was contemplating the reasons why para sailing equipment was imported by LeT. Could be there's a very simple reason..crossing the LOC or the International boundary fences and sending a 26-11 type team into Indian territory.

Hasmukh ji, i don't think this 'stable Pakistan is good for India' is something confined to IMs. Psec Feudals, left liberals and most people strategically bereft of all hues believe in this hype.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Feb 2010 21:29

India's only hope, it seems yet again, lies in TSP committing more tactical brilliance on its own accord before unkil can get wind of it. And lets not underestimate TSPian abilities in this regard.

Despite all manner of strengths and advantages, Dilli has yet again lost the game at the negotiating table. Circa 1972.

Cry, my beloved country

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Feb 2010 21:37

CRamS wrote:In one of your earlier posts you alluded to Mush's promise to Vajpayee that TSP's territory won't be used to launch terror attacks against India. One needs to parse this statement carefully.

That was why Gen. Musharraf banned JeM, LeT etc. in Pakistan except in PoK. LeT was made known of Musharraf's decision ahead of time and they siphoned off their money and moved lock, stock and barrel to Muzzafarabad after announcing the formation of JuD. What a farce.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Feb 2010 21:38

CRS, Frothing is fun but should not distort the truth. ABV and JS did not ever formulate any such definition.

sum · Post by **sum** » 04 Feb 2010 21:46

I am appalled until I find an explanation that gives a Chanakyan twist to GoI's approach, at which time I will be only more appalled.

Dont worry about that, Sridhar-saar. You will finds tons of spins on how Chankian the latest move is on BR itself ( just like how SeS was vigourously defended as uber-Chankian on BR by quite a few posters despite GoI officially disowning itself from its own signature on the paper!!!)

Its hardly a week since SSM took over and the effects already beginning to show.
This latest drama has only convinced me that when it comes to Indian security under present GoI, it is better to be paranoid.

But, the only thing im unable to fathom is :Times now news channel ( not the aman ki asha newspaper) seems to have adopted a "hawkish" tone against the latest move of GoI when i expected them to sing along with GoI. Why is this so?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Feb 2010 21:53

sum wrote:
I am appalled until I find an explanation that gives a Chanakyan twist to GoI's approach, at which time I will be only more appalled.

Dont worry about that, Sridhar-saar. You will finds tons of spins on how Chankian the latest move is on BR itself ( just like how SeS was vigourously defended as uber-Chankian on BR by quite a few posters despite GoI officially disowning itself from its own signature on the paper!!!)

Its hardly a week since SSM took over and the effects already beginning to show.
This latest drama has only convinced me that when it comes to Indian security under present GoI, it is better to be paranoid.

But, the only thing im unable to fathom is :Times now news channel ( not the aman ki asha newspaper) seems to have adopted a "hawkish" tone against the latest move of GoI when i expected them to sing along with GoI. Why is this so?

Somebody not got their box of mangoes?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 04 Feb 2010 22:22

Ok. It seems everyone here is wailing and everyone trying to see in only one angle. Whatever may be the truth, I'm asking, is there anything we can achieve by these talks even though it could be meagre and indirect. I read pressure valve and other things. Do people can see anything beyond what we are made to see ? Is there any geopolitical move ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Feb 2010 22:25

What is your take?

munna · Post by **munna** » 04 Feb 2010 22:26

Kanson wrote:Ok. It seems everyone here is wailing and everyone trying to see in only one angle. Whatever may be the truth, I'm asking, is there anything we can achieve by these talks even though it could be meagre and indirect. I read pressure valve and other things. Do people can see anything beyond what we are made to see ? Is there any geopolitical move ?

Well Kanson ji I was one of the few who defended MMS after SES, but now even I stand befuddled and kaan fujjed only. I really do not understand purpose behind resumption of dialogue except some dubious nudge nudge wink wink stuff going around these days.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 04 Feb 2010 22:26

Kanson wrote:Ok. It seems everyone here is wailing and everyone trying to see in only one angle. Whatever may be the truth, I'm asking, is there anything we can achieve by these talks even though it could be meagre and indirect. I read pressure valve and other things. Do people can see anything beyond what we are made to see ? Is there any geopolitical move ?

What have past Indo-pak talks achieved that has benefited India? In fact what have Indo-pak talks achieved period? We have stuck to our position (except during the SeS disaster) and they have stuck to theirs. I don't see how that is going to change in the future.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Feb 2010 22:31

Nachiket and Munna, Indo-Pak talks are not to benefit either of them. They are on Indian side to appease US which in turn can pressure the TSP to do more in FATA/WANA. If talks are resumed they will do more there, but same time will have a go at India. This is the cycle that has to be broken.

India is working on this but needs time.

Rangudu, In this times even the traffic stop violation wont happen.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 04 Feb 2010 22:35

Pakistani diplomat with ***** star name rejected

In Saudi Arabia, size does count.

A high level Pakistani diplomat has been rejected as Ambassador of Saudi Arabia because his name, Akbar Zib, equates to "Biggest Dick" in Arabic. Saudi officials, apparently overwhelmed by the idea of the name, put their foot down and gave the idea of his being posted there, the kibosh.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Feb 2010 22:37

Doesn't Akbar mean Greatest not Biggest?

Anyway which Ashraf would name his kid with that last name? Maybe it was Arabic humor when they named the envoy's earliest ancestors. And poor Pakis didnt know what it ment? Or was it a honorific to the ancestor for his proclivity?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 04 Feb 2010 22:47

In the subcontinent the islamic meaning maybe popular but we can expect a language which evolved in a barbarian setting and limited resources to equate big with great in general usage.

still this is just a guess on my part.

However most of the abduls in pakistan may not be knowing the meaning of their name.
Too bad he was not named Abdul Zib.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 04 Feb 2010 22:49

Watching the behaviour of Kangressi and some Bjpites leaders ,these oldies seem to carry huge superficious baggabge on their shoulder. May be Piskology master here can diagnose the psycholicgical weakness of these Indian leaders. To me , The weakness stems form the fact that after 47, these oldies have chained and jailed true Indian spirt with PS practice . If Pakistan defince itself anti-Hindu them there is no harm in behaving similar toward Pakistan and any one , any one trying to paddle for these evil doers across the broder ought to be thrown in the dungeon without remorse. Lets face that fact now, Indian cant have nationalistic government, nationalistic response to any crisis because of fundamental weakness caused by our so called founding fathers who refused to listen to man like Ambdedkar . Now live with it or change the paradigm or die quietly.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 04 Feb 2010 22:56

Well, i dont think any move by GOI is a zero sum game. SeS, if we try to see as a single incident, probaly it wont make any sense. I'm not defending anyone here but i'm trying to see beyond individual events, and i dont like to believe MMS/Menon and for that matter MKN as stupid. Ok let talk through BR language. To stabliize the region and bring peace, Pakistan has to be destroyed. It can be done by military means or what you call as chanakyan means. Miliatry means is swift. But chanakyan means will be slow. Destroying Pakistan = destroying Pak army. How that Pak army can be destroyed other than military means ? Paksitan army survives by the very principle of Indian threat. If that Indian threat can be withdrawn the very reason of the Pak army to buy large arms can be challenged; their grip on the society can be removed( its already happening and people started to write critical of army) and so. But the real question could be how that can be achieved. What are the possibilities. Do we have friends there?
From B. Raman tweets

MQM & ANP secular. Friends of India.Instead of jointly confronting Taliban they are killing each other.Taliban will gain ultimately.

Can they be manipulated? Are there any other priorities by having this talk ? Short term and long term ? I see many article prescribing talks to strengthen the civil government of Pak ? Is that means indirectly to reduce the military influence ? Or the civil govts wants the help of Indian government ? What abt reading the tea leaves ? Through this talk can India gain access to land route to AF ?

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 04 Feb 2010 22:57

I think we need to shift the prism through we view the Indo-Pak dialog thingy ... We can blame MMS, ABV, SMK ityadi and debate the advanatges/disadvantages of these talks till the cows come home but one question that needs to be asked is "What is the dis-incentive for Indian leaders to hold talks with Pakistan?"

- Will they lose elections if they talk to Pakistan even post 26/11? Will the voting janta penalize them for this?
- Will PC or SMK or ABV or JS stand to lose their Lok Sabha seats over talks with Pakistan?
- Will it reduce the percieved stature of these gentlemen in the eyes of the so-called "world community" if they talk to Pakistan? After all if a US President even thinks about talks with Iran/NoKo , they might find some voices in support of this but they will find an equal number of voices in opposition (both internally and internationally)

Now the next question to be pondered over is that once we understand what will be the disincentives for them to show bhai-chara with Pakistan, is there anything we (jingoes) can do about it?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 04 Feb 2010 23:00

ramana wrote:Nachiket and Munna, Indo-Pak talks are not to benefit either of them. They are on Indian side to appease US which in turn can pressure the TSP to do more in FATA/WANA. If talks are resumed they will do more there, but same time will have a go at India. This is the cycle that has to be broken.

India is working on this but needs time.

Rangudu, In this times even the traffic stop violation wont happen.

Once we accept the fact that the ISI and paki army are actively engaged in training terrorists to strike in India and the paki govt. isn't serious about stopping that, we have nothing left to talk about.
The only thing we can do is to strengthen our internal security and counter-intelligence infrastructure to stop the paki terrorists before they carry out their acts. Appeasing the US has got us nowhere. It hasn't stopped terrorist attacks and is unlikely to ever do so. It is fairly obvious that the US is only interested in getting rid of those terrorists who want to harm them and the ISAF troops not the ones that can harm India. Pakis have managed to separate the two and deliver to Washington what they want without impeding anti-India activities.

That's why I personally believe talks are completely useless as far as India is concerned.

The cycle which you are referring to goes somewhat like this according to me.
There is a period of relative calm in India (like now) when all the WKKs shout for Aman ki Asha and Indo-Pak "peace process". There are talks which either go round in circles or "seem" to be delivering results like the Bus yatra.
All this while the pakis are silently plotting. There is the inevitable big event...terror attack, Kargil etc.

The Indian govt. then acts annoyed with the pakis, there are several strongly-worded statements and talks and CBMs are suspended for some time and the whole process starts again after some time has passed. Well to a layman like me, it seems we really don't need the "Bonhomie period" do we since we are surely going to get slapped again. Like you said, the cycle has to be broken. We can start by telling the pakis once and for all that we have no interest in talking with them. Ever.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 04 Feb 2010 23:06

Kanson wrote:How that Pak army can be destroyed other than military means ? Paksitan army survives by the very principle of Indian threat. If that Indian threat can be withdrawn the very reason of the Pak army to buy large arms can be challenged; their grip on the society can be removed( its already happening and people started to write critical of army) and so.

Then by your own reasoning the pakjabi army wont let that deescalation of threat to happen, will it?
It will do another mumbai to bring everyone back to square one.
So better keep the threat escalated on our side than to give reason for the pakjabi army to escalate it for us.

India does not have the resources to stop a well planned terror attack backed by PA.
And the net result of this escalation-deescalation cycle is more indians killed, nothing else.

Pakipunju Army has to be vanquished in a military confrontation and thats the only way.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 04 Feb 2010 23:14

Lilo wrote:
Kanson wrote:How that Pak army can be destroyed other than military means ? Paksitan army survives by the very principle of Indian threat. If that Indian threat can be withdrawn the very reason of the Pak army to buy large arms can be challenged; their grip on the society can be removed( its already happening and people started to write critical of army) and so.
Then by your own reasoning the pakjabi army wont let that deescalation of threat to happen, will it?
It will do another mumbai to bring everyone back to square one.
So better keep the threat escalated on our side than to give reason for the pakjabi army to escalate it for us.

India does not have the resources to stop a well planned terror attack backed by PA.
And the net result of this escalation-deescalation cycle is more indians killed, nothing else.

Pakipunju Army has to be vanquished in a military confrontation and thats the only way.

Ok what you say is right. Military solution is very much possible. But it will drain our resources. Ofcourse, Pak army will try to make another Mumbai. Even if there is no talk, are you sure there wont by anymore mumbai ? If you are a problem solver what you do.

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 04 Feb 2010 23:17

"Pakistan and its army are India-centric due to unresolved issues New Delhi has with Islamabad, even as there is a history of conflict between the two neighbours, Pakistani Army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has said.Kayani made the remarks during an interaction with a group of Pakistani journalists in the garrison city of Rawalpindi.". Source:NDTV. Wonder what uncle has to say about this. This s just the second time he has interacted with the media since taking office.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 Feb 2010 23:43

nachiket wrote:
ramana wrote:Nachiket and Munna, Indo-Pak talks are not to benefit either of them. They are on Indian side to appease US which in turn can pressure the TSP to do more in FATA/WANA. If talks are resumed they will do more there, but same time will have a go at India. This is the cycle that has to be broken.

India is working on this but needs time.

Rangudu, In this times even the traffic stop violation wont happen.
Once we accept the fact that the ISI and paki army are actively engaged in training terrorists to strike in India and the paki govt. isn't serious about stopping that, we have nothing left to talk about.
The only thing we can do is to strengthen our internal security and counter-intelligence infrastructure to stop the paki terrorists before they carry out their acts. Appeasing the US has got us nowhere. It hasn't stopped terrorist attacks and is unlikely to ever do so. It is fairly obvious that the US is only interested in getting rid of those terrorists who want to harm them and the ISAF troops not the ones that can harm India. Pakis have managed to separate the two and deliver to Washington what they want without impeding anti-India activities.

That's why I personally believe talks are completely useless as far as India is concerned.

The cycle which you are referring to goes somewhat like this according to me.
There is a period of relative calm in India (like now) when all the WKKs shout for Aman ki Asha and Indo-Pak "peace process". There are talks which either go round in circles or "seem" to be delivering results like the Bus yatra.
All this while the pakis are silently plotting. There is the inevitable big event...terror attack, Kargil etc.

The Indian govt. then acts annoyed with the pakis, there are several strongly-worded statements and talks and CBMs are suspended for some time and the whole process starts again after some time has passed. Well to a layman like me, it seems we really don't need the "Bonhomie period" do we since we are surely going to get slapped again. Like you said, the cycle has to be broken. We can start by telling the pakis once and for all that we have no interest in talking with them. Ever.

This is where Muppalla's post on muslim appeasement come into picture. We cant be certain how much each indo-pak dialogue affects muslim psyche in india. But a staunch and strong position like, we have no interest in talking to you for ever, will for sure have a great effect on their psyche (again when i mean muslims, i dont mean all of of IM's, a substantial section of them). This is completely against the charter of a party which has so shrewdly garnered their vote in the last 5 years in spite of all the nonsense that took place.

So in my opinion, that option is out. The hawks in India who advise the establishment, have to come up with a better strategy where the GOI of today meaning UPA acts in the interests of our nation without them losing their vote bank. There is no need to react like, why on earth should political compulsions affect national interest, sadly that is the way things are. So the nationalists/hawks need to figure a way to convince the goi to take steps that help India and at the same time dont alienate their vote bank.

I am no expert to now analyze whether the steps being taken now are part of that strategy or if no hawk is even advisiong them or if the hawkish advise does not sit well with their vote bank???

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 04 Feb 2010 23:50

Kanson wrote: Ok what you say is right. Military solution is very much possible. But it will drain our resources. Ofcourse, Pak army will try to make another Mumbai. Even if there is no talk, are you sure there wont by anymore mumbai ? If you are a problem solver what you do.

I think we have to use a wait and watch policy till we grow economically strong enough to afford a pakistani beating military with little damage to ourselves.

And to remember to keep the threat escalated from our side while showing real intention to resort to surgical strikes if the Punju Army feels a need to resort to a terror strike in spite of this( either due to the threat levels being not enough for its taste or our economy needs to stop growing fast - whatever).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Feb 2010 23:54

Its a claumny to suggest Indian Muslim interests are same as TSP's. They are not.

However after every terrorist attack pseudo-nationalists talk and threaten Indian Muslims and they consolidate behind INC. Evidence: Delhi elections after Batala House raid and National Elections after Mumbai Terrorist attack.

However with NDA opposition currently in disarray to take advantage of such talk and national elections in a distant four years (2014), there is space for the GOI to react differently to next attack.

I suspect it will be confined to POK where there are known terrorist training camps. And if escalation happens so be it.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 05 Feb 2010 00:03

"Zeb" in Persian means ornament or beauty, not mijjile. It also appears to be the surname of the royal family of Swat, of which, this gentleman is a scion.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 05 Feb 2010 00:22

Lilo wrote: I think we have to use a wait and watch policy till we grow economically strong enough to afford a pakistani beating military with little damage to ourselves.

And to remember to keep the threat escalated from our side while showing real intention to resort to surgical strikes if the Punju Army feels a need to resort to a terror strike in spite of this( either due to the threat levels being not enough for its taste or our economy needs to stop growing fast - whatever).

What you say is already on the cards. We are developing BMD and so on. We are having options to strike back. Anything more can be done in the meantime? Remember before we went into east pakistan, we made a lot of preparations. Whatever you say, is trying to view Pak as one entity. In reality it is not but it appears like one. Can we manipulate this. Let leave at this. Let observe closely what GOI is doing and planning to do and what is happening in the region.

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 05 Feb 2010 00:28

Kanson wrote:Anything more can be done in the meantime?

how about disallowing the congregation of terror elements in POK? by overt threats to their well being, we needn't wait for another terror strike to take that position

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 05 Feb 2010 00:35

vasu_ray wrote:how about disallowing the congregation of terror elements in POK? by overt threats to their well being, we needn't wait for another terror strike to take that position

As mentioned by KC Singh on timesnow, the timing of this Sec level talks is so bad, that this has happened on the eve of Kashmir day in pakistan.
Trrow they will celebrate in POK

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 05 Feb 2010 00:42

I am sorry Ramana, look at the fact that Digvijaya Singh visited the family of terrorists involved in Batala house encounter and also the fact that elections in Bihar and UP are already underway (am not talking of official proclamation of course)

There is nothing which is not obviously obvious.

You have alway maintained Pakistan as the last cats paw of the western interest in India, I have always maintained Pakistan to be the unfinished agenda of Indian identity (there is no Pakistani identity in itself, as Shiv said its only a anti Hindu identity)

It may be calumny but it would be optimistic to assume that all anti Hindu forces (and for them India === Hindu whether we like it or not) are in Pakistan alone.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 05 Feb 2010 00:43

Kanson wrote:
Lilo wrote: I think we have to use a wait and watch policy till we grow economically strong enough to afford a pakistani beating military with little damage to ourselves.

And to remember to keep the threat escalated from our side while showing real intention to resort to surgical strikes if the Punju Army feels a need to resort to a terror strike in spite of this( either due to the threat levels being not enough for its taste or our economy needs to stop growing fast - whatever).
What you say is already on the cards. We are developing BMD and so on. We are having options to strike back. Anything more can be done in the meantime? Remember before we went into east pakistan, we made a lot of preparations. Whatever you say, is trying to view Pak as one entity. In reality it is not but it appears like one. Can we manipulate this. Let leave at this. Let observe closely what GOI is doing and planning to do and what is happening in the region.

The people in power (not GoI) is letting India down by playing with fire, thats it.

End spin.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 05 Feb 2010 00:53

Dunno if this was posted....B Raman's article

INDIA-PAKISTAN: MUTUAL LEGAL ASSISTANCE

13. Shri Chidambaram should take advantage of the forthcoming meeting of the Home/Interior Ministers of the SAARC countries in Islamabad next month to lay the foundation for such institutional linkages. He should attend the meeting accompanied not only by the Home Secretary, but also by the Director of the Instelligence Bureau, the Directors-General of the NIA and the Border Security Force (BSF) and Shri Rakesh Maria, Joint Commissioner of the Mumbai Police, who co-ordinated the investigation of the 26/11 terrorist strikes and have a comprehensive discussion with Mr.Rehman Mallik, the Pakistani Interior Minister, as to how to successfully prosecute the conspirators .He should also propose the setting up of a hotline between the DsG of the NIA and the FIA to push forward the implementation of the decisions taken away from the glare of publicity.

14. We already have a functioning hot line between the DsG of Military Operations of the two Armies. There is a need to supplement it with a hotline between the principal investigation agencies of the two countries.

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Feb 2010 00:55

14. We already have a functioning hot line between the DsG of Military Operations of the two Armies.
Chanakian , and we still had Kargil so what gives ?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Feb 2010 00:58

Nothing less than Indian engagement in Afghanistan should be our pound of flesh to start talks with Pakistan.

Should include
1. Indians training Afghan police/army
2. Indians building roads/railway
3. Unrestricted transit for Indian, Afghan goods
4. Institutional linkages such as election commission, Postal services, Insurance, Banking, Agriculture & Farm sector

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 05 Feb 2010 01:06

Folks like Shri Raman et al know what going to happen before it happens.

A show on Times Now ended just now, with Geo TV boss, Shri Parthsarathi, KC and the old external affairs minister of Pak (the standard panel on Times Now for these issues)

To my surprise KC was on fire, and GP was saying that well if you have to talk at least talk to ISI/TSPA, he was making funny faces as if he has eaten something rather horrible but has to tolerate it.

The Geo TV chief gave his usual 2 min standard "I am a Pakistani hence must talk of root causes of terrorism" and then said only one thing -- let India restore good business relations with pakistan -- the effect it will have on destroying JuD brand of Philoshpy will be huge -- Arnab was like "wtf" are you real -- how is buisness going to play a role against Terror mindset -- and the Geo TV guy said -- to you it may not appear so -- but to me its a BIG DEAL -- GP was agreeing with GEO TV chap -- he wasnt too happy about it -- but he was in agreement.

Of course I am convinced this is the n+1 cycle of Sisyphus, but till we have Nirvana, we shall keep doing it, what?

----------

Oh Geo TV said that he attended a dinner with ISI head, Indian ambassador to Pakistan and some one very high in Indian Mil Intelligence recently -- GP was like "amen, but if true why the F are you saying this on TV"

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Feb 2010 01:08

I am sorry, but want to know if Peace brigade has recommended PC to take Kasai Kasab with him to meet his family. His parents must be missing him or VV. The bleeding harts must be soothen by this humane gesture as sign of good neighborship. I mean, what kind of worthwhile discussion GOI can have with civilians there as its the army who owns the Camp and they will exist till they are punished to the fullest of their crime against Indians. To cure the disease , kill the virus not symptoms only.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Feb 2010 01:13

Prem wrote:I am sorry, but want to know if Peace brigade has recommended PC to take Kasai Kasab with him to meet his family. His parents must be missing him or VV. The bleeding harts must be soothen by this humane gesture as sign of good neighborship.

But one of the conditions to start the talks was to sign the agreement that Kasab is not Pakistani.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 05 Feb 2010 01:38

The talks in POK - can we outline the implications of the same.
Looks like to be a good taliban, they simply have to restrict themselves to the Indian playground

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 05 Feb 2010 01:44

"Zeb" in Persian means ornament or beauty, not mijjile. It also appears to be the surname of the royal family of Swat, of which, this gentleman is a scion.

Zib in Arabic means honoured member.

The Geo anchor calling for business ties is not strange, in fact it is perceptive. If India wants an Indic Pakistan it will have to promote business. That is the only way to create a middle class as opposed to the feudals and the impoverished jihad fodder cattle of Pakistan. neither of the latter are relevant for peace with India.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 05 Feb 2010 02:06

sanjaykumar; I am aware that on the surface the call for biz looks good for various reasons (however I will not count creation of middle class as one of them since the middle class exists already, not all feudal are upper class, even with feudal structure it is possible to have a middle class, and if there was no middle class (say) to create would take a generation at least; in fact even more so' any way I digress)

Also given that Geo TV has actually done some real "stand up for truth" type of articles w.r.t. Mumbai V attacks -- I tend to give more than some credit to that chap.

However -- some questions that persist.

1) How much of it is tauqia (by Geo TV and others peacewallahs in Pak)
2) Assuming (BIG one here) that the above is honest -- do the peace wallas (say three people in pakistan?) have any chance to make a whit of difference to 80+ years of Pakistaniyat?

And those questions of course are the most rudimentary summing of the real issues.

So in short -- yeah I expect Paki's (good and bad) to want to sell us talks? But why would any Indian with a modicum of respect for India and a shred of brains do what is being done?

What am I missing? (other than Kanson types -- "we dont know but trust the GoI", his standard explanation for all thing which obviously stink)